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  #101  
Old 08-02-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
That is a bunch of garbage. Getting drunk beyond able to control yourself is either a mistake or it's not. The results of that are what causes everything you described, from mouthing off, driving drunk and pushing bartender. Saying that while he was out of his head and he pushed a female bartender is an attitude toward women? Maybe, maybe not as he displayed somewhat the same attitude toward his male cellmate.

How can you say that driving drunk is a mistake and pi$$ing on the floor of cell is an attitude of being above the law? They both are breaking the law, the one you seem to defend has more dangerous consequences.

I'm going to guess that the actions you say are forgivable as mistakes are actions that you've at one time have partaken in. The others you haven't. So basically anything wrong you've done is a forgivable mistake and the ones you haven't are a display of your real personality, morals and ethics.
Your guesses aren't worth the sticky bar napkin from Tim's you scribble them on.

I've been drunk. I've been really, really, really drunk. I've been so drunk I couldn't speak my own name. And in that state a girl really ****ed me off. And it never came close to crossing my mind to shove her because it's so deeply ingrained in me to respect women that it would not be possible for me to shove her. Could never happen because it's not who I am. Apparently that's who Sam is. Push a dude? Totally different.

I've had a few and driven before, thinking I was sober enough to drive. There was likely at least 1 time where I was not sober enough. That's an error in judgement; a mistake. I've been busted by the cops when I had too many to drink (not driving) and my first reaction was to do whatever the he** the officer told me because respecting the law is my character. Getting busted by the cops and then taking a leak on the floor of the tank? You're an idiot beyond measure if you consider that a "mistake" just because he was drunk. That's got to be who you are as a person to act so belligerent.

There is no amount of alcohol I could drink that would cause me to shove a woman, trash a bar, mouth off to the cops, and THEN to top it off pee on the floor of the jail cell. You on the other hand. . . totally believable.

Last edited by Gazoo; 08-02-2017 at 04:17 PM..
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  #102  
Old 08-02-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Wealth at the expense of taxpayers across the country. That entire area is a sewer that sucks money from the rest of the country.
I guess I should be thanking you for my pool then
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  #103  
Old 08-02-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Sounds like he has highly educated parents and I believe his aunt/uncle? is a professor at UD so they should "get it". Parents need to make the call and pull him out of school and get him treatment now. The world does not need another Johnny Manziel.
No no no. Manziel is a tool who wasted great talent.

Sam is a tool who got foolishly wasted with very marginal talent. More analogous to Scott and Robinson. Just hair brain stupid.

I publicly supported him when he appeared sober and was trying hard to find himself---with two good years ahead of him, and the team in need.
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  #104  
Old 08-02-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Your guesses aren't worth the sticky bar napkin from Tim's you scribble them on.

I've been drunk. I've been really, really, really drunk. I've been so drunk I couldn't speak my own name. And in that state a girl really ****ed me off. And it never came close to crossing my mind to shove her because it's so deeply ingrained in me to respect women that it would not be possible for me to shove her. Could never happen because it's not who I am. Apparently that's who Sam is. Push a dude? Totally different.

I've had a few and driven before, thinking I was sober enough to drive. There was likely at least 1 time where I was not sober enough. That's an error in judgement; a mistake. I've been busted by the cops when I had too many to drink (not driving) and my first reaction was to do whatever the he** the officer told me because respecting the law is my character. Getting busted by the cops and then taking a leak on the floor of the tank? You're an idiot beyond measure if you consider that a "mistake" just because he was drunk. That's got to be who you are as a person to act so belligerent.

There is no amount of alcohol I could drink that would cause me to shove a woman, trash a bar, mouth off to the cops, and THEN to top it off pee on the floor of the jail cell. You on the other hand. . . totally believable.
So far you have admitted to driving drunk. Are you saying that you've never gotten in a fight drunk or any of the other things you define as a mistake? Because if you have, my guesses are spot on. If not, they're pretty close.

So stupid and arrogant. Maybe, you have a point with the pushing of a woman. You state there are things in your character that you are that would keep you from certain behaviors when drunk out of your mind and then state that you putting other drivers lives on the line because you were too drunk to drive is an error in judgement. So basically, what you are is someone who is so selfish that you don't care about putting other drivers' lives on line. Because if that's not who you are, you wouldn't do it right?

Last edited by Smitty10; 08-02-2017 at 05:50 PM..
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  #105  
Old 08-02-2017, 06:34 PM
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Alcohol affects everyone differently. Athletes can also be spoiled and entitled. If they weren't, you wouldn't hear much about sexual assaults and drunken escapades amongst athletes. Not defending Sam, but who knows what issues he had/has. The question is, do you try to correct or do you cut ties. Compared to some other clowns we've had on the team, this is not the worst thing that's ever occurred with a UD player. So let the process play out, see what punishment UD and Coach Grant dole out, and then see what happens.
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  #106  
Old 08-02-2017, 09:08 PM
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To me it isn't about one mistake. I could forgive the booted from the bar incident. It's that and you add on disrespecting the police, urinating on the floor and the fight.

It goes from one thing transgression to a series
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  #107  
Old 08-02-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I thought it was a swamp?
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You say vas and I say vase.
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  #108  
Old 08-02-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The disturbing thing to me is that he doesn't calm down after he gets arrested. Drunk and act like an idiot at a bar is one thing. Get arrested and not calming down is another thing. That really doesn't sit right with me
If he was really drunk/he blacked out, then it can take a few/several hours to sober up. He may have still been pretty intoxicated even in the holding cell.

If he blacked out, then he may have no memory of the night's events after a certain point in the evening when he reached a certain level of intoxication. It is hard to have much control of yourself, when you are that drunk. Doing too many shots/drinking too much hard alcohol will do that to you.

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  #109  
Old 08-02-2017, 10:55 PM
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I think some questions factor in although we may not ever know the true answer:

1. Has Miller had any disciplinary issues (especially involving alcohol) prior that were unreported to the masses;
2. What value does AG put on Miller;
3. Is the ultimate decision made in the Athletic Dept or go beyond

I would have no problem cutting bait but I am honest enough to admit that I might feel a tiny bit different if he was a preseason All American and this was his first issue. But I wouldn't feel good about myself so that makes it ok.
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  #110  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:01 PM
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Young + Male + Alcohol = Poor decisions.

Hopefully he learns and moves on. Assuming there's no history, AG talks with him gives him a break, and keeps it between them.
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  #111  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If he was really drunk/he blacked out, then it can take a few/several hours to sober up. He may have still been pretty intoxicated even in the holding cell.

If he blacked out, then he may have no memory of the night's events after a certain point in the evening when he reached a certain level of intoxication. It is hard to have much control of yourself, when you are that drunk. Doing too many shots/drinking too much hard alcohol will do that to you.
This is the most uninformative message I have ever read.
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  #112  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigtimeflyersguy View Post
This is the most uninformative message I have ever read.
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I see that your a newbie.... trust me this is the tip of the iceberg ... we are well known for uninformative messages.
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  #113  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer2 View Post
I see that your a newbie.... trust me this is the tip of the iceberg ... we are well known for uninformative messages.
Don't patronize me. My point is that the guy just explained to us all how getting drunk works and that's unnecessary lol. We're all Flyers here

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  #114  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:32 AM
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Hey Flyer Fans: Do you realize that this little short video is getting NATIONAL attention not just us Flyer fans? LOL

Note: I am referring to the jail cell fight video involving Sam Miller.
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  #115  
Old 08-03-2017, 06:37 AM
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I think this is strictly a Student Code of Conduct issue. While some of us may think it was just bad judgement, or a mistake, the SCC usually takes a much harsher look.
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  #116  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Hey Flyer Fans: Do you realize that this little short video is getting NATIONAL attention not just us Flyer fans? LOL

Note: I am referring to the jail cell fight video involving Sam Miller.
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No such thing as bad publicity, right?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-cell-at-jail/
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  #117  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:35 AM
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*CoC is applicable off-campus for alcohol

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I think this is strictly a Student Code of Conduct issue. While some of us may think it was just bad judgement, or a mistake, the SCC usually takes a much harsher look.
It happened off campus* and involved an arrest. It's a little more serious than a Code of Conduct issue.
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  #118  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:54 AM
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For all of you who keep saying (hoping? wondering aloud?) this is potentially a first offense. . . well let's just say you might end up looking a bit like Trump supporters who initially said he never said anything degrading about women right before 10 different recorded conversations were made public.

I'm just saying you might not want to lead with that card.
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  #119  
Old 08-03-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
No such thing as bad publicity, right?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-cell-at-jail/
He could have at least won the fight...

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  #120  
Old 08-03-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
So far you have admitted to driving drunk. Are you saying that you've never gotten in a fight drunk or any of the other things you define as a mistake? Because if you have, my guesses are spot on. If not, they're pretty close.

So stupid and arrogant. Maybe, you have a point with the pushing of a woman. You state there are things in your character that you are that would keep you from certain behaviors when drunk out of your mind and then state that you putting other drivers lives on the line because you were too drunk to drive is an error in judgement. So basically, what you are is someone who is so selfish that you don't care about putting other drivers' lives on line. Because if that's not who you are, you wouldn't do it right?
I have never pushed a bartender.
I have never pushed / hit a woman.
I have never had a negative interaction with a bouncer.
I have never trashed a bar.
I have never mouthed off to a cop.
I have never been arrested.
I have never peed on the floor of a municipal building.
I have never gotten drunk and got in a fight.
I have never knowingly driven drunk, though I'm willing to consider that it might have happened at some point because the legal limit is so low.
I have never gotten trashed (or anywhere close to it) and driven a vehicle.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like jackwads who refuse to allow their ignorance to inhibit their public display thereof.
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  #121  
Old 08-03-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I have never pushed a bartender.
I have never pushed / hit a woman.
I have never had a negative interaction with a bouncer.
I have never trashed a bar.
I have never mouthed off to a cop.
I have never been arrested.
I have never peed on the floor of a municipal building.
I have never gotten drunk and got in a fight.
I have never knowingly driven drunk, though I'm willing to consider that it might have happened at some point because the legal limit is so low.
I have never gotten trashed (or anywhere close to it) and driven a vehicle.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like jackwads who refuse to allow their ignorance to inhibit their public display thereof.
I thought the thread was about Sam Miller.
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  #122  
Old 08-03-2017, 08:58 AM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ight-jail.html

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  #123  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:05 AM
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While in the back of the police cruiser Miller almost went full Pacman Jones. We all know NEVER go full Pacman.
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  #124  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I thought the thread was about Sam Miller.
He asked. Every thread is about Smitty. He makes sure of that.
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  #125  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:25 AM
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Anyone have an idea as to when we will hear from UD? AG?
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  #126  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:29 AM
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Whoever said the summertime Forum is boring and dull???
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  #127  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Anyone have an idea as to when we will hear from UD? AG?
My guess is once the court thing is done... then the university will probably make a decision
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
No such thing as bad publicity, right?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-cell-at-jail/
This just makes me ill. All the goodwill and respect we accumulated in 4 years of NCAA participation is jeopardized by the actions of one brainless belligerent drunk player.

Thanks Sam. You managed to make Xavier look clean.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
This just makes me ill. All the goodwill and respect we accumulated in 4 years of NCAA participation is jeopardized by the actions of one brainless belligerent drunk player.

Thanks Sam. You managed to make Xavier look clean.
lol I doubt that... If they get rid of him, it will all go away I believe
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:45 AM
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I was always taught that it is not soo much of how, if, when you screw up; but what you do after you screw up that defines you. Not condoning what he did at all, but very anxious to see how he responds.
Accept responsibility, apologize, and become a visable example of how it will never happen again and the world will forgive him!
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  #131  
Old 08-03-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
I was always taught that it is not soo much of how, if, when you screw up; but what you do after you screw up that defines you. Not condoning what he did at all, but very anxious to see how he responds.
Accept responsibility, apologize, and become a visable example of how it will never happen again and the world will forgive him!
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  #132  
Old 08-03-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It happened off campus* and involved an arrest. It's a little more serious than a Code of Conduct issue.
Of course, but all of these posters defending him, saying it was a mistake, and that basketball would be involved in decision making. The legal issues are separate from CoC. He could have all charges dropped provided there is a diversion program, and still get expelled.
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  #133  
Old 08-03-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Young + Male + Alcohol = Poor decisions.

.

Young + FEMALE + Alcohol = Poor decisions too.

Just as many, if not more, young females partying a bit to hard these days as well.
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  #134  
Old 08-03-2017, 12:44 PM
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Obviously Sam made terrible drunken decisions but this had me crying in laughter.

https://twitter.com/blackburnreview/...66002253094912
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  #135  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:22 PM
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Ok, I watched the video again.

It appears that Miller is standing over the other guy, probably mouthing off, and Miller reaches out toward the other guy's face. Does not look like a punch; more like a push or weak slap. Then the other guy gets up and starts firing punches connecting on Miller's face with Miller appearing to not being able to defend himself because of his drunken condition. At some early point in the "fight", the other guy is no longer defending himself but affirmatively assaulting Miller. Has all the aspects of a downed fighter in a UFC fight.

In no way am I condoning Miller's stupid, drunken antics and behavior and he should have known better. Alcohol clouds your mind and does not make you a better fighter. But when you break down the video, I think the other guy may have a more serious assault and battery issue. You can defend yourself to a point but then it becomes an outright assault and battery against the original attacker. UFC fighting is permitted in the octagon only.
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:34 PM
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Another point of concern is why this is making the news (even international), and yet for years, a school like Baylor covered up known rapes, other schools have covered up very serious crimes, and little if any publicity on those items.
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  #137  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Ok, I watched the video again.

It appears that Miller is standing over the other guy, probably mouthing off, and Miller reaches out toward the other guy's face. Does not look like a punch; more like a push or weak slap. Then the other guy gets up and starts firing punches connecting on Miller's face with Miller appearing to not being able to defend himself because of his drunken condition. At some early point in the "fight", the other guy is no longer defending himself but affirmatively assaulting Miller. Has all the aspects of a downed fighter in a UFC fight.

In no way am I condoning Miller's stupid, drunken antics and behavior and he should have known better. Alcohol clouds your mind and does not make you a better fighter. But when you break down the video, I think the other guy may have a more serious assault and battery issue. You can defend yourself to a point but then it becomes an outright assault and battery against the original attacker. UFC fighting is permitted in the octagon only.

Come on. The guy connected about 6 times by my count, stopped once Sam went to the ground, and then went to the holding cell door to get the officers attention. Sam should be counting his lucky stars that Watkins didn't continue pounding on him once he was down because most jail fight videos I've ever watched don't end until the officers pull somebody off the other guy.

I'm no lawyer so I don't know all the technicalities of what constitutes assault vs defending yourself, but I thought Watkins showed a lot of restraint when he really could have pummeled Sam.

Last edited by C-time; 08-03-2017 at 01:39 PM..
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  #138  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Another point of concern is why this is making the news (even international), and yet for years, a school like Baylor covered up known rapes, other schools have covered up very serious crimes, and little if any publicity on those items.
Because there is nothing going on in sports right now and VIDEOS like this get clicks which is the whole goal of any "article" on the internet. People love watching VIDEOS of people getting in trouble, doing stupid things, and getting beat up. If there's video of something it will covered more than something where there isn't video.

Last edited by C-time; 08-03-2017 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
It appears that Miller is standing over the other guy, probably mouthing off, and Miller reaches out toward the other guy's face. Does not look like a punch; more like a push or weak slap. Then the other guy gets up and starts firing punches connecting on Miller's face with Miller appearing to not being able to defend himself because of his drunken condition. At some early point in the "fight", the other guy is no longer defending himself but affirmatively assaulting Miller. Has all the aspects of a downed fighter in a UFC fight.
.

When your giving up a foot and 100 lbs, plus sitting down, once you decide to engage in fisticuffs you do not stop halfway through to make sure you have successfully defended yourself, thus giving the other guy a chance to fight back and you possibly end up on the receiving end of the ass kicking. Right or wrong on throwing the first true punch, do you really think Miller and his mouth and his one ***** slap would have stopped at that point if the guy did not act? Would pounding on the door for a cop have stopped Miller, or would this dude have gotten his butt kicked by Miller by the time help arrived? Chances are the guy giving the butt beating did not expect Miller to be softer than Barney. When Miller went down, he quit the royal butt beating, and pounded on the door for assistance.

Hey its the summer, now we are debating proper jail house fight etiquette
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  #140  
Old 08-03-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Ok, I watched the video again.

It appears that Miller is standing over the other guy, probably mouthing off, and Miller reaches out toward the other guy's face. Does not look like a punch; more like a push or weak slap. Then the other guy gets up and starts firing punches connecting on Miller's face with Miller appearing to not being able to defend himself because of his drunken condition. At some early point in the "fight", the other guy is no longer defending himself but affirmatively assaulting Miller. Has all the aspects of a downed fighter in a UFC fight.

In no way am I condoning Miller's stupid, drunken antics and behavior and he should have known better. Alcohol clouds your mind and does not make you a better fighter. But when you break down the video, I think the other guy may have a more serious assault and battery issue. You can defend yourself to a point but then it becomes an outright assault and battery against the original attacker. UFC fighting is permitted in the octagon only.
You can't be be serious man. No prosecutor is going to touch that. When someone stands over top of you (someone much bigger than you) and slaps you, all bets are off. You are are allowed to fight back until the threat is neutralized. How is he supposed to know, in a fraction of a second, whether Sam is no longer a threat? Because you say so after watching the video a few times? Come on. He stopped when Sam was on the ground as he should have. Perfect case of pure self defense.
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  #141  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:48 PM
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Congrats Flyer 68!! This has to be one of the worst hot takes on this board of all time. I'm all for letting due process run it's course with the University and legal system as a whole, but declaring Sam Miller to be a victim.... take a knee.

Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Ok, I watched the video again.

It appears that Miller is standing over the other guy, probably mouthing off, and Miller reaches out toward the other guy's face. Does not look like a punch; more like a push or weak slap. Then the other guy gets up and starts firing punches connecting on Miller's face with Miller appearing to not being able to defend himself because of his drunken condition. At some early point in the "fight", the other guy is no longer defending himself but affirmatively assaulting Miller. Has all the aspects of a downed fighter in a UFC fight.

In no way am I condoning Miller's stupid, drunken antics and behavior and he should have known better. Alcohol clouds your mind and does not make you a better fighter. But when you break down the video, I think the other guy may have a more serious assault and battery issue. You can defend yourself to a point but then it becomes an outright assault and battery against the original attacker. UFC fighting is permitted in the octagon only.
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  #142  
Old 08-03-2017, 03:06 PM
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Sam is lucky. He might have been attending U of Texas. There would have been no jail fight or charges. Because the bartender he assaulted would have capped his ass and he would likely have been a statistic. And he/she would not have faced charges.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:24 PM
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Someone else mentioned this, good thing this happened in Greene County.

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Old 08-03-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Ok, I watched the video again.
Yikes, dude. I'm all for seeing this through Blue and Red colored glasses - and I was all aboard the "Let's wait for the full story" train. The story is out. Sam made a series of dumb decisions - each dumber than the last.

I will be shocked if we see him in a Flyers uniform again. I wish him well - I really do. It just needs to be somewhere else.

To quote Semisonic: "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here"
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  #145  
Old 08-03-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
You can't be be serious man. No prosecutor is going to touch that. When someone stands over top of you (someone much bigger than you) and slaps you, all bets are off. You are are allowed to fight back until the threat is neutralized. How is he supposed to know, in a fraction of a second, whether Sam is no longer a threat? Because you say so after watching the video a few times? Come on. He stopped when Sam was on the ground as he should have. Perfect case of pure self defense.
This is 100% the correct legal analysis. Reasonable force necessary to defend yourself. Once Sam is on the ground he stops. Textbook. The lesson of course is don't start something you are too drunk to finish.
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  #146  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
This is 100% the correct legal analysis. Reasonable force necessary to defend yourself. Once Sam is on the ground he stops. Textbook. The lesson of course is don't start something you are too drunk to finish.
I would hope so, because I've been a criminal defense attorney for the last five years
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  #147  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:28 PM
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The police should have investigated the bar more as there were several underage drinkers. Someone suggested that Sam's behavior was more a kin to someone on drugs. Could someone have slipped something in his drink, glasses should have been collected and given to the lab.

Not letting Sam off the hook but he should not have been allowed a drink in the first place. Most establishments serving minors are shut down for investigation. A crime or two happened there and the police should have conducted a through investigation into all of it.

Hopefully Sams family will realize he has a possible problem and needs treatment before he hurts himself and others. Graciously remove him from the U without fanfare and take him home for counseling and rehab if needed. This decision should not have to rest with AG or the U. Its really a family issue, imo.
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  #148  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Sam is lucky. He might have been attending U of Texas. There would have been no jail fight or charges. Because the bartender he assaulted would have capped his ass and he would likely have been a statistic. And he/she would not have faced charges.
This post is as dumb as Sams actions. Please stay in California.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:35 PM
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  #150  
Old 08-03-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
This post is as dumb as Sams actions. Please stay in California.
He doesn't live in California, used to.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
The police should have investigated the bar more as there were several underage drinkers.

Not letting Sam off the hook but he should not have been allowed a drink in the first place. Most establishments serving minors are shut down for investigation. A crime or two happened there and the police should have conducted a through investigation into all of it.

.
Do we know the bar served him at all, or did he show up there drunk already?

Do we know the bar served Sam directly, or was someone else buying the drinks and giving them to Sam?

Do we even know if Sam's ID shows him as being 20, and not 21? Out of state drivers license and all, pretty simple to get a fake ID that could confuse the bar staff. I just did a quick google search and I can get two fake ones that are scanable for $100. Hell yea, I am 29 years old again, but also 65 or whatever age I need to get social security and live off all you poor suckers!

I am sure Beavercreek PD is on top of things.

Last edited by ClaytonFlyerFan; 08-03-2017 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Do we know the bar served him at all, or did he show up there drunk already?

Do we know the bar served Sam directly, or was someone else buying the drinks and giving them to Sam?

Do we even know if Sam's ID shows him as being 20, and not 21? Out of state drivers license and all, pretty simple to get a fake ID that could confuse the bar staff. I just did a quick google search and I can get two fake ones that are scanable for $100. Hell yea, I am 29 years old again, but also 65 or whatever age I need to get social security and live off all you poor suckers!

I am sure Beavercreek PD is on top of things.
If you read the reports it states she stopped serving him when she determined he was drunk.....next question.

A high profile individual known throughout the community. Most know most players are under age. Next question.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
If you read the reports it states she stopped serving him when she determined he was drunk.....next question.


A high profile individual known throughout the community. Most know most players are under age. Next question.

Is the actual police report out there? If your talking news reports, DDN report says bar tender told him he could have no more drinks. She knew he was drunk, for all we know he drank elsewhere, fake ID, others bought till he went to get this round, etc.....

Many juniors could already be 21, or will turn 21 during their junior year. And a newsflash for you, before Sam's few minutes of fame this week, ask 9 out of 10 bar tenders in this town who Sam Miller was and most would say who? Outside of us basketball junkies, many could care less or have no idea who you are talking about.
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  #154  
Old 08-03-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
I was always taught that it is not soo much of how, if, when you screw up; but what you do after you screw up that defines you. Not condoning what he did at all, but very anxious to see how he responds.
Accept responsibility, apologize, and become a visable example of how it will never happen again and the world will forgive him!
This could be the tip of the iceberg in the downward spiral of one Sam Miller. He is an alcoholic by all indicators. Jmo. Hope he turns it around, but the common thread of his whole drunk spell was rebellious violent behavior. He has deep-seated problems imo. I've drunk a few too but this isn't about me. All the lecturing that I just buzzed through in this thread I thought I was in a holding tank myself..
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  #155  
Old 08-03-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Because there is nothing going on in sports right now and VIDEOS like this get clicks which is the whole goal of any "article" on the internet. People love watching VIDEOS of people getting in trouble, doing stupid things, and getting beat up. If there's video of something it will covered more than something where there isn't video.
Well that and it could be the vid that captured the biggest puss-job ever. Miller could be depicted in dictionaries and encyclopedias now representing the biggest puss ever..
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Well that and it could be the vid that captured the biggest puss-job ever. Miller could be depicted in dictionaries and encyclopedias now representing the biggest puss ever..
The same thing would have happened with the video if the roles were reversed and Sam had kicked that guys ass. But in that case Sam would have been labeled a a violent racist privileged white athlete by some media outlets which might be even worse in the long run for him.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Well that and it could be the vid that captured the biggest puss-job ever. Miller could be depicted in dictionaries and encyclopedias now representing the biggest puss ever..
Miller's video reminded me of another recent and somewhat famous college puss from UConn . . .

https://youtu.be/QDFHjVXYP5s
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Miller's video reminded me of another recent and somewhat famous college puss from UConn . . .

https://youtu.be/QDFHjVXYP5s
Right. Looks like that kid probably stuck with beer. Miller appears to be inebriated on more potent alcohol. I would guess whiskey..I would also guess he was spurned earlier by a girl, or guy, depending on his preference in that regard..
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:49 PM
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For me this thread can be closed. Sam is dead to me. Not a Flyer, simply an ass. Next!
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:17 PM
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Think I saw Sam on Geico's Running of the Bulldogs commercial..
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
This post is as dumb as Sams actions. Please stay in California.
You must live a sheltered life in Texas. Go take a swing at a Texas bartender at 1am and see how that works out for you, buttercup.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
You must live a sheltered life in Texas. Go take a swing at a Texas bartender at 1am and see how that works out for you, buttercup.
SDF, you must just be too big of a hell raiser for the Lone Star state. Out partying and causing trouble at 1 AM!

Last edited by ClaytonFlyerFan; 08-03-2017 at 10:49 PM..
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:17 PM
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SDF is limited to 3 geritols and vodka per day.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
If you read the reports it states she stopped serving him when she determined he was drunk.....next question.

A high profile individual known throughout the community. Most know most players are under age. Next question.
we do not know if he had a fake id, but it should not be dismissed away.. if he did, then he may of done this before, but not been caught...

okay here is another question: when John Crosby left the team, wasn't one of the reasons is that the entire team ran laps because 1 or more Flyers were not attending classes or am I not remembering the details quite right? were the identities of the ones/ doing this ever revealed?

if the above is fairly accurate, it would not surprise me at all, if one certain Flyer happened to be involved in that also..... just sayin
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Someone else mentioned this, good thing this happened in Greene County.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...HXNwZiPWS7KDK/
Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I would hope so, because I've been a criminal defense attorney for the last five years
Well that would explain it. Sorry for the redundancy.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
we do not know if he had a fake id, but it should not be dismissed away.. if he did, then he may of done this before, but not been caught...

okay here is another question: when John Crosby left the team, wasn't one of the reasons is that the entire team ran laps because 1 or more Flyers were not attending classes or am I not remembering the details quite right? were the identities of the ones/ doing this ever revealed?

if the above is fairly accurate, it would not surprise me at all, if one certain Flyer happened to be involved in that also..... just sayin
That's a great point. If the whole team was there (big if--only a rumor at this point) then Grant is going to have to refinish the floor after they wear out the varnish. Missing class? Run. Knowingly taking an underage teammate into a bar with a fake ID and let him get trashed? We might have 7 or 8 open scholarships next year.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:47 AM
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UD has a history of looking the other way for far more serious violations of their CoC than what Sam did so it wouldn't surprise the King to see them deal with this internally and with no press releases or comments.

Where are the DDN investigative reporters? Ohhhh, they're out covering HS football practices.

The King has moved on...after all, it's football season!

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Old 08-04-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
SDF is limited to 3 geritols and vodka per day.
That is so not true. I hate vodka.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:38 AM
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There should be a race between Sam's parents and Grant as to who acts first. Interesting that Sam has not been at least suspended from the basketball team?
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:41 AM
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Wasn't there supposed to be a court appearance yesterday? Any outcome?
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:46 AM
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He pled not guilty.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:14 AM
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We should take the Nick Saban route: he gets zero punishment as long as he completes "certain requirements" like community service and police ride-alongs.
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  #173  
Old 08-04-2017, 11:00 AM
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Unhappy is frontcourt cursed?

granted i don't follow many other teams, and i know every program endures injuries, some season-ending, but ...

2012-13: kavanaugh misconduct, redshirt
2013: derenbecker (small forward) transfers, later overdoses and dies
2014: gavrilovic transfers (not huge impact, but highly touted at one point)
2014-15: jalen and devon, dismissed
2015-16: dyshawn pierre misses first semester, assault case
2015-16: kendall limited much of season
2016: McElvene dies
2016: Cunningham misses most of season after breaking ankle on meaningless dunk
2017: more of a 3, but mikesell out with hip impingements
2017: miller can't hold his liquor

I've been an avid fan since 1992, and that's a bad stretch, my friends, with lots of bad judgment we lambaste other programs for.

If our culture needs a tune-up, I support Coach Grant. Winning at all costs isn't worth it. handing these young men a degree and sending them overseas with a sense of entitlement does them no service.

fortunately, for every knucklehead, we have a few who do us proud -- like kendall, scoochie, and kyle. they're kids after all, but IMMENSELY disappointed in Sam. he had multiple chances to come to his senses -- confront female bartender, break glasses, thrown out by security, kick police cruiser, pee in jail cell, get in fight -- and failed EVERY ONE. astonishing.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
...he had multiple chances to come to his senses -- confront female bartender, break glasses, thrown out by security, kick police cruiser, pee in jail cell, get in fight -- and failed EVERY ONE. astonishing.
A number of those knuckleheads you mentioned were also voted as team Captains for our beloved Flyers...so maybe, just maybe, Sam was thinking this arrest would pad his resume and solidify his position prior to the team vote.

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Old 08-04-2017, 11:39 AM
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It's a terrible night, of course, but I see it as one mistake - drinking too much. Everything else stemmed from that. I'd give him a second chance if that's his only incident. Not that it would go unpunished, but I wouldn't necessarily drop him from the team if he's kept his nose clean otherwise. If he's ever had a previous warning I'd drop him. Going forward, if he ever even skips a single class I'd drop him. And if Grant was just keeping him around out of loyalty but didn't really think he was worth a scholarship, this is also an opportunity to free up that scholarship.
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:03 PM
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With respect to what might happen on the University level, I took a look at the Student Code of Conduct. Looks like he pretty clearly and in multiple ways violated the Alcohol, Disorderly Behavior and Physical Abuse provisions. Pending legal process, he may also be in violation of the Laws and Statutes provision. Importantly the Laws and Statutes provision requires "violation" not conviction so if he took diversion or some other "second chance" plea which required an admission of guilt or stipulation to the facts but did not result in conviction I think it is still a violation of the CoC. All violations are cumulative and students are responsible for all aspects of the CoC on and off campus.

The link to the part of the handbook that describes the process for hearing and discipline is broken but if I recall correctly from the last time we went through this (ugh!) the burden of proof is "more likely than not" or something comparable.

https://udayton.edu/policies/_resour...20Handbook.pdf

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Old 08-04-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
C'mon guys, who hasn't got sh!t faced, knocked glasses off a bar after being cut off, pushed a female bartender, punched a bouncer, kicked a police car, p!ssed on the floor of a holding cell and fought with another detainee?
That is a normal Saturday night for some
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:33 PM
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Things We Know

1. Sam Miller was a member of the UD Flyer Men's Team.
2. Sam violated UD policy by his conduct
3. The attendant publicity scandalized the University of Dayton, the Atlantic 10 and the UD
Men's basketball program.
4. The authority for a remedy in the misdemeanor case rests with the Greene County Courts.
5. Administrative responsibilty rests with Mr. Grant with the advice and consent of the AD and
President of the University.
6. We the Flyer Faithful must deal with our disappointment and concern and overwhelming
desire to speak on the issue prematurely as the facts and procedures play out.
7. For now all we can do is wait and see and perhaps say a prayer for a Fallen Flyer as he
contends with his personal crisis.
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  #179  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardsflyer View Post
That is a normal Saturday night for some
That's quite a generalization. Sometimes it's Friday nights.
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  #180  
Old 08-04-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
That's a great point. If the whole team was there (big if--only a rumor at this point) then Grant is going to have to refinish the floor after they wear out the varnish. Missing class? Run. Knowingly taking an underage teammate into a bar with a fake ID and let him get trashed? We might have 7 or 8 open scholarships next year.
I bet you were fun in college...
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  #181  
Old 08-04-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
It's a terrible night, of course, but I see it as one mistake - drinking too much. Everything else stemmed from that.
I agree, it sure looks like that. Everything appears to stem from the excessive intoxication.

A number of folks on here do not seem to understand that when you are as drunk as Sam appeared to be, then you say and do things that you would not normally say or do.

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Old 08-04-2017, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree, it sure looks like that. Everything appears to stem from the excessive intoxication.

A number of folks on here do not seem to understand that when you are as drunk as Sam appeared to be, then you say and do things that you would not normally say or do.
The only thing I did wrong was enter the bank with a gun. The robbery, shooting a guard and kidnapping the clerk were incidental, and I should not be charged, as I have a license to carry. When I was put in that situation, you tend to do things and shoot at people you did not intend to.
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  #183  
Old 08-04-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree, it sure looks like that. Everything appears to stem from the excessive intoxication.

A number of folks on here do not seem to understand that when you are as drunk as Sam appeared to be, then you say and do things that you would not normally say or do.
Well ud2, that's just inventing a weak alibi for him. Those who choose to get "blackout drunk" often reveal their true misgivings inside. Some just drift off, singing themselves to sleep. Others reveal the dark side that is hiding just beneath the skin. Like domestic violence, and physical abuse, or damaging property. Something they wouldn't do if sober.

The aforementioned is not the Jack Daniels fault, nor is manslaughter from driving that way the cars fault.
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:43 PM
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Sam's a lucky young man. Fortunate that he came away from that night with a busted lip and a knot on his head. Probably fortunate he is white and was detained by Beavercreek..
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Old 08-04-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The only thing I did wrong was enter the bank with a gun. The robbery, shooting a guard and kidnapping the clerk were incidental, and I should not be charged, as I have a license to carry. When I was put in that situation, you tend to do things and shoot at people you did not intend to.
Nobody is saying he shouldn't be held accountable by the law and by the university for his actions from getting intoxicated to his subsequent actions. All we are saying is that his getting drunk beyond control is the character flaw he demonstrated. Everything else is a byproduct of this. It doesn't necessarily reflect what his character is under normal circumstances. But I'm sure I'll get attacked by all the psychiatrists here that know, positively, different.
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  #186  
Old 08-04-2017, 02:58 PM
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Official Statement by UD

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...tToC3Mf4gLeVK/
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  #187  
Old 08-04-2017, 03:12 PM
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"Sam Miller has not participated in organized team activities this week and as this is the end of the summer term, no team activities are scheduled until the start of the school year.

I think this is the lead up to the parting of ways.

Sorry - but he needs to be gone and the sooner the better.

He did everything but punch a police horse.

He is 6' 9" he will land somewhere else. But it is best for all parties to part ways.
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  #188  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
"Sam Miller has not participated in organized team activities this week and as this is the end of the summer term, no team activities are scheduled until the start of the school year.

I think this is the lead up to the parting of ways.

Sorry - but he needs to be gone and the sooner the better.

He did everything but punch a police horse.

He is 6' 9" he will land somewhere else. But it is best for all parties to part ways.
I agree. Despite the fact that I never thought Sam had his heart in the game, the university, or his conditioning, I always held out for that "ah-ha" moment when he would wake up and be determined to excel on the court. At this point, I just think it's time for Sam to move on and play somewhere else. He never realized that being a Flyer was a special and honorable position. He may go D-2 or low-major at this point.
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  #189  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardsflyer View Post
That is a normal Saturday night for some
Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
That's quite a generalization. Sometimes it's Friday nights.
I have no idea how you guys are forgetting Tuesdays and Thursdays!?!?!?! It takes a commitment throughout the entire week to make sure these kinds of incidents don't happen!

If Sam had built up a tolerance like a normal UD student he wouldn't have acted like this. I think we should be questioning his commitment to being a true University of Dayton student-athlete!!!!!!
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Well ud2, that's just inventing a weak alibi for him. Those who choose to get "blackout drunk" often reveal their true misgivings inside. Some just drift off, singing themselves to sleep. Others reveal the dark side that is hiding just beneath the skin.

The aforementioned is not the Jack Daniels fault, nor is manslaughter from driving that way the cars fault.
I find it much more likely that Sam's behavior was caused by Jack, Jim, or Jose. Tito Morgan is much less likely to cause this type of behavior!
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  #191  
Old 08-04-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
It's a terrible night, of course, but I see it as one mistake - drinking too much. Everything else stemmed from that. I'd give him a second chance if that's his only incident. Not that it would go unpunished, but I wouldn't necessarily drop him from the team if he's kept his nose clean otherwise. If he's ever had a previous warning I'd drop him. Going forward, if he ever even skips a single class I'd drop him. And if Grant was just keeping him around out of loyalty but didn't really think he was worth a scholarship, this is also an opportunity to free up that scholarship.
I have been there, but haven't done that. Worst I ever did was buy a beer for everyone I ran into one night in a packed bar. I told my friend the next day I thought I lost all of my money, he just laughed and started naming most of the people I bought drinks for. Thankfully that was in '87 and I wasn't bsnkrupt.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:19 AM
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Pre-trial set for 09/25/17 at 1030. Has Dennis Lieberman on the case. Looks like he waived his right to a speedy trial...which means this case isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Guessing his attorney will advise him to seek alcohol/substance counseling prior to any court dates...hoping that sways his ability to have a favorable plea agreement sent his way.
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  #193  
Old 08-05-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
He pled not guilty.
not guilty to what? kicking a police car, knocking glasses on the floor, shoving a waitress, shoving a security guard, making incoherent sounds when being asked questions by police, ****ing the night away, or assaulting a fellow inmates hands with his face? lol.....)
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  #194  
Old 08-05-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
not guilty to what? kicking a police car, knocking glasses on the floor, shoving a waitress, shoving a security guard, making incoherent sounds when being asked questions by police, ****ing the night away, or assaulting a fellow inmates hands with his face? lol.....)
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  #195  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
not guilty to what? kicking a police car, knocking glasses on the floor, shoving a waitress, shoving a security guard, making incoherent sounds when being asked questions by police, ****ing the night away, or assaulting a fellow inmates hands with his face? lol.....)
You don't know the system or court procedures. It's common for everyone to enter a plea of not guilty, then the prosecutor can look over the facts and decide if they will offer a plea bargain.

Should you plead guilty right out the shoot you've closed the door to lesser charges.

Things that look plain as day to us in the court of public opinion a prosecutor may have hard time proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. The bartender has already backed out of pressing charges.
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  #196  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
You don't know the system or court procedures. It's common for everyone to enter a plea of not guilty, then the prosecutor can look over the facts and decide if they will offer a plea bargain.

Should you plead guilty right out the shoot you've closed the door to lesser charges.

Things that look plain as day to us in the court of public opinion a prosecutor may have hard time proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. The bartender has already backed out of pressing charges.
I agree with the general proposition that it is common to enter a not guilty plea initially. As far as things sometimes being difficult to prove I also generally agree but not here. He was never charged with anything involving the bar other than disorderly by intoxication. If you saw the dash cam video not much room for defense there. The alleged assault was at the jail and again on video. The bartender is fairly irrelevant to what he has been charged with.
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  #197  
Old 08-05-2017, 01:22 PM
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As a former prosecutor and public defender, to plead not guilty is standard operating procedures. It is too early in the process to make an informed tactical decision. It leaves all options open for both sides. An arraignment is not a confessional. Answering to the code at the university is a different issue. I believe his actions demand minimally he looses his scholarship. He should be gone before the start of the semester.
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  #198  
Old 08-05-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TMPH66 View Post
As a former prosecutor and public defender, to plead not guilty is standard operating procedures. It is too early in the process to make an informed tactical decision. It leaves all options open for both sides. An arraignment is not a confessional. Answering to the code at the university is a different issue. I believe his actions demand minimally he looses his scholarship. He should be gone before the start of the semester.
agree with all the above... maybe somehow he can learn from this (hitting rock bottom so to speak...) I'm now speaking of him as a person.. whatever happens, hope for the best for him
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  #199  
Old 08-05-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TMPH66 View Post
I believe his actions demand minimally he looses his scholarship. He should be gone before the start of the semester.
Are you 100% certain that he will be gone?
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  #200  
Old 08-05-2017, 07:18 PM
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Of course he's going to plead not guilty and when it's all over in the court system, you'll see why. Prediction, he gets off with a Disorderly Conduct and maybe underage drinking(could all be packaged as DO).

There's going to be no assault when it's all over. This is why you have an attorney. The argument can be made by the defense that they had no business putting him in a shared cell at that point in time knowing his state of mind. It won't go that far. This isn't the most serious of crimes. It probably happens multi times an evening, maybe not the exact actions, but some variation of them.

The criminal charges are the easy part. What the University will do and the humiliation of having these videos easily accessed by the public will be the real price he pays. Does he have the intestinal fortitude to take the time to go through the humiliation and embarrassment from the community and humbling himself and staying at UD(which if he does, I'm guessing they would take him back after some sort of suspension or one year expulsion) will be the real question.
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