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  #1  
Old 11-26-2021, 09:58 AM
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Kansas Game

Based upon reading the stats, a couple web sites and the Kansas web site, here is what I learned. Kansas is picked to win their Big 12 conference. Kansas is ranked 4th in the country. Kansas is 4-0 for the season. Las Vegas Insider has Dayton as a 15 point underdog. Kansas is one of the preeminent basketball programs in the country with the best recruits, best facilities and best coaches. So, the team has plenty of 6'10", 6,9" and 6'8" guys who can play. But, they no longer have Udoka Azubuike (7'0" 280) as he is playing for the Utah Jazz and they no longer have Marcus Garrett (6'5") who is playing for the Miami Heat. There are no super stars on this roster, yet. Bill Self had a chance to go to North Carolina as the head coach replacement but Kansas upper management nipped this idea in the bud by offering Bill Self an incredibly lucrative life time contract.

We all know that Dayton is a mostly freshman team. What I want to see is the Dayton players to come out and play loose. I want them to play as if they have nothing to lose. We, potentially, could play this same team, again, next year in the Battle for Atlantis tournament in 2022.

What I don't want to see is a game similar to one of a few years ago where a Dayton team travelled to Duke and acted like "deer in the headlights" and played like they were frozen in quicksand. For the first 10 minutes, they played in awe of the Duke mystique until they realized that they could play with this guys. But, by then, they were down by 15 points and the game was over.
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Old 11-26-2021, 10:59 AM
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I remember that Duke game well, Dec 29,2002. We ended up losing by 11. Duke was #3 at the time. The ESPN article was entitled "Duke holds on to defeat Dayton" or something close to that.
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I remember that Duke game well, Dec 29,2002. We ended up losing by 11. Duke was #3 at the time. The ESPN article was entitled "Duke holds on to defeat Dayton" or something close to that.
Accurate headline. Game wasn’t over till final three minutes or so. Dayton had cut the lead to four or five at one point, had the rock and put up a three-ball that was in and out. Would have cut it to a one-possession game. Duke made their free throws to close it out.
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:41 AM
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DJ Stelly almost single handedly kept UD in the game until the last few minutes.

A better example is when we went to NC and lost by 30. I was at that game and the deer in the headlights look was there all game long.

I don’t expect them to be awed by the name on the uniform today. The bodies in the paint may be another story. Can be a great measuring stick for these guys today.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:06 PM
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Just go out and play with a chip, like you got humiliated three games in a row and you want to show some wedding tackle. My coach used to tell us in these kinds of "out of reach" games to just play hard every possession and not to worry about the score. Just focus on winning possessions.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:10 PM
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We were down by 30 to Duke…it was never a game despite revisionist history.

As for Kansas, they’re 15 pt favorites but I’m not so sure about that! Take the Flyers and the points.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:24 PM
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Other than DaRon's family, most of the other people around us were KU fans (although as noted in the other thread there is plenty of KU connection within the Holmes family). Two of the dads pointed out our fans to their kids with very complimentary things to say about how we traveled. I almost felt bad telling them I only drove and hour and a half. It was cool to see the dad's pointing out nuances of the game to their kids. They were pretty actively engaged in our game.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:27 PM
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[QUOTE=Marysville Flyer;674361]DJ Stelly almost single handedly kept UD in the game until the last few minutes.

A better example is when we went to NC and lost by 30. I was at that game and the deer in the headlights look was there all game long.

I don’t expect them to be awed by the name on the uniform today. The bodies in the paint may be another story. Can be a great measuring stick for these guys today.
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We are 2-1 against the Tarheels by the way
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
We were down by 30 to Duke…it was never a game despite revisionist history.Posted via Mobile Device
Hardly revisionist history. The Flyers weren’t going to win the game, but their biggest deficit was 23, not 30. And they trailed by six with three minutes to go, missing a three that would have made it a one possession game. And yes, the Duke starters were in the game. Here’s a snippet from the AP story.

——

For much of the game, the Blue Devils appeared in control,
pushing the lead to 54-31 on a free throw by Jones with 16:14 to
play. Redick was the key to Duke's charge, hitting eight straight
shots -- five of them 3-pointers -- spanning halftime.

"He's our best shooter," said Duhon, who finished with nine
points and seven assists. "Whenever he's open, he has a
double-green light to shoot it. If he hesitates just once, there
will be four guys all over him."

The Flyers battled back, slowing Duke's onslaught and going on a
13-4 run to pull within 66-54 when Jones was called for goaltending
on a layup by Brooks Hall with 8:35 left.

Dayton pushed even closer as Keith Waleskowski scored 11
straight points, and Ramod Marshall hit two hanging jumpers that
pulled the Flyers within 75-69 with 3:08 to play.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:40 PM
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What I remember about the Duke game was that yes, we made a great comeback against the blueblood on their home court. And that Coach K spent the rest of the season singing the praises of Oliver Purnell and the Flyers and how they deserve to go to the NCAA and will be a force. I always thought that Coach K wasn't used to a "nobody in his mind" giving them trouble on his home court so he based his complimenting of the Flyers on that game only. His continuous compliments of OP probably had something to do with Clemson taking him away from us.

But that sure contrasts with 2013-2014 when he said something to the effect that NCST and others in the ACC deserve to go to the NCAA tourney instead of Dayton. That's what made the elite eight run and especially that win against Syracuse so sweet.

I also remember that was the start of a smorgasboard of back to back weekends of sport for me. Watched the Browns beat the Falcons to give them a chance to get to the playoffs, a Jets-Packers game that actually got the Browns into the playoffs and that evening the Duke-UD game. Spent that whole Sunday at sports bars. Then the next weekend, Friday OSU beat Miami for the National Championship, Saturday the Flyers took down Marquette and on Sunday the Browns blew a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter to lose in the playoffs to the Steelers.

Last edited by Smitty10; 11-26-2021 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Based upon reading the stats, a couple web sites and the Kansas web site, here is what I learned. Kansas is picked to win their Big 12 conference. Kansas is ranked 4th in the country. Kansas is 4-0 for the season. Las Vegas Insider has Dayton as a 15 point underdog. Kansas is one of the preeminent basketball programs in the country with the best recruits, best facilities and best coaches. So, the team has plenty of 6'10", 6,9" and 6'8" guys who can play. But, they no longer have Udoka Azubuike (7'0" 280) as he is playing for the Utah Jazz and they no longer have Marcus Garrett (6'5") who is playing for the Miami Heat. There are no super stars on this roster, yet. Bill Self had a chance to go to North Carolina as the head coach replacement but Kansas upper management nipped this idea in the bud by offering Bill Self an incredibly lucrative life time contract.

We all know that Dayton is a mostly freshman team. What I want to see is the Dayton players to come out and play loose. I want them to play as if they have nothing to lose. We, potentially, could play this same team, again, next year in the Battle for Atlantis tournament in 2022.

What I don't want to see is a game similar to one of a few years ago where a Dayton team travelled to Duke and acted like "deer in the headlights" and played like they were frozen in quicksand. For the first 10 minutes, they played in awe of the Duke mystique until they realized that they could play with this guys. But, by then, they were down by 15 points and the game was over.
Agbagi is a star.
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:28 PM
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Dickie V is warming up…
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Dickie V is warming up…
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Hardly revisionist history. The Flyers weren’t going to win the game, but their biggest deficit was 23, not 30. And they trailed by six with three minutes to go, missing a three that would have made it a one possession game. And yes, the Duke starters were in the game . . .

For some people, the glass is always half empty.

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Old 11-26-2021, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
Other than DaRon's family, most of the other people around us were KU fans (although as noted in the other thread there is plenty of KU connection within the Holmes family). Two of the dads pointed out our fans to their kids with very complimentary things to say about how we traveled. I almost felt bad telling them I only drove and hour and a half. It was cool to see the dad's pointing out nuances of the game to their kids. They were pretty actively engaged in our game.
It is a majority of Kansas fans in Orlando vs all other teams. Dayton is second from what I’ve seen but Kansas has about twice what we brought.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:28 PM
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Wrong, I’m here and it’s pretty even.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:33 PM
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No way they have more than us. Seems even at worst. They seem a little more boisterous because they’re winning. Just walking around it’s impressive to see so much of our red and everyone saying Go Flyers as they pass.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:39 PM
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This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys. You can tell we are totally outclassed in this game. When the Jays have the ball, you hope they miss their shot. When the Flyers have the ball, you hope they don't turn it over and somehow the ball finds a wide open man under the basket.

However, I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:38 PM
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Well .....

Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys. You can tell we are totally outclassed in this game. When the Jays have the ball, you hope they miss their shot. When the Flyers have the ball, you hope they don't turn it over and somehow the ball finds a wide open man under the basket.

However, I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
Well, guess what!
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys. You can tell we are totally outclassed in this game. When the Jays have the ball, you hope they miss their shot. When the Flyers have the ball, you hope they don't turn it over and somehow the ball finds a wide open man under the basket.

However, I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
This didn’t age well Smitty…
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys. You can tell we are totally outclassed in this game. When the Jays have the ball, you hope they miss their shot. When the Flyers have the ball, you hope they don't turn it over and somehow the ball finds a wide open man under the basket.

However, I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
As soon as I typed this, our class of freshman turned it around. You're welcome lol
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:48 PM
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the thread is titled Kansas game...

lets get off of Duke and talk about
this game... UD Scott: you are no longer
going to write anything negative about
Coach Grant for the rest of the year, can
we make that the rest of the season??
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:54 PM
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In close games, we often think of coaches as chess master geniuses, but the reality is players have to make players. Amzil throws up a wild shot and victory follows. UD made dumb plays int he last 4 minutes. Kansas made dumb plays as well.

If Amzil, misses the shot, UD still played super hard. It is so great that he made it!! Seen too many bounce the wrong way over the years.

I have to eat crow. I thought these players did not know how to win. Well. Today, they played hard and won.

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Old 11-26-2021, 05:00 PM
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you know what can happen when
a Flyer throws up a wild shot??

it can go in, bam!
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:01 PM
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Sorry if this was posted somewhere else, but did anyone notice that Amzil hit the shot over Braun, who was the one who taunted after his dunk in the 1st half.

It was either over Camara or Amzil. I think it was over Camara,, but I hope it was over Amzil. Does anyone remember?
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:01 PM
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Amzil's shot did not define this game. But it was just reward for the pain inflicted in three losses and the OT loss to KU in Maui. It was fairly earned.

I said at the beginning of the year I expect some inexplicable losses but also a couple Ws that came out of left field. Its what you get when you're extremely young -- inconsistency. Grant has had to throw a lot on the wall to see what sticks. It was going to require some bloodletting.
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:01 PM
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Malachi Smith looked like a budding star today.
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys. You can tell we are totally outclassed in this game. When the Jays have the ball, you hope they miss their shot. When the Flyers have the ball, you hope they don't turn it over and somehow the ball finds a wide open man under the basket.

However, I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
First sentence was absolute truth. The rest was just a wee bit off.
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobopotamus1 View Post
Sorry if this was posted somewhere else, but did anyone notice that Amzil hit the shot over Braun, who was the one who taunted after his dunk in the 1st half.

It was either over Camara or Amzil. I think it was over Camara,, but I hope it was over Amzil. Does anyone remember?
It was Camara, but nevertheless, it's karma.
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:45 PM
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I'll take it!
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
It is a majority of Kansas fans in Orlando vs all other teams. Dayton is second from what I’ve seen but Kansas has about twice what we brought.
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It's not about the size of dog in the fight, it's about the size of the fight in the dog.
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:49 PM
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I have to eat crow. I thought these players did not know how to win. Well. Today, the played hard and won.[/

Flyers came to win
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:53 PM
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this whole game, were they down 15
at one point in the first half?
the comeback, never giving up... wow

this whole game and shot could really
help this team make leaps and bounds..
let's see how the season plays out...

we need the same vigor the same fire,
great great game by everyone..
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Old 11-26-2021, 06:17 PM
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I noted Amzil playing D on Braun, and definitely slowed him down. Braun was tentative to take a 3 when Amzil got a hand up. Held him to 4 in the 2nd half while on him.
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  #35  
Old 11-26-2021, 09:31 PM
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https://www.rockchalktalk.com/2021/1...-dayton-flyers

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Old 11-26-2021, 09:44 PM
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I particularly enjoyed this comment:

Bill Self publicly lit into David McCormack after the North Texas game yesterday. Let’s see if that gets his attention. If it does, the Flyers are in trouble. The joke going around Twitter is that this is for the 2020 national championship. Let’s hang that banner. Kansas 83, Dayton 62.

I agree, Let's hang that banner.
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Old 11-26-2021, 10:06 PM
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My favorite parts of the game involved watching Self prance around grabbing his head in complete frustration. Priceless!
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:23 PM
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I linked this youtube account several times during 2019-2020, and it turns out Matt Loves Ball is still at it.

Condensed (~25 min) game, Dayton vs. Kansas: https://youtu.be/UUXRkR-MfzM

The Miami game is there, too.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2021, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobopotamus1 View Post
Sorry if this was posted somewhere else, but did anyone notice that Amzil hit the shot over Braun, who was the one who taunted after his dunk in the 1st half.

It was either over Camara or Amzil. I think it was over Camara,, but I hope it was over Amzil. Does anyone remember?
That dunk put Kansas up 44-29 and then after Braun got his technical... Dayton closed the half on a 6-1 run to make their comeback in the 2nd half possible.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2021, 12:06 PM
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Sup Holmes?

I am so impressed with the consistency of play by DeRon Holmes. He is certainly living up to
his billing as the best UD Frosh in a long time. He learns something new and is able to apply it very well. I am especially impressed with his passing ability. His dunking and shot blocking are not a surprise but his passing surprises me. He is learning to play post defense as well.
He shows no nerves and the better the competition the better he plays.
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  #41  
Old 11-27-2021, 01:03 PM
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Holmes is the reason McCormick get called for the offensive foul on the last possession.
After getting get called for an arm bar early in the 2nd half, Holmes talked to the official on multiple occasions to get an explanation and more clarification. A couple times, the official made a shoulder dipping motion.
#33 dipped. Camara bounced. Whistle blew.
Thank you Mr. Holmes for your respectful conversations.
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Old 11-27-2021, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
This game is going to be the most important one if the careers of our young guys….

…I hope sometime after this game, the team watches it on tape and realizes that great teams like Kansas, don't let the ball stick in their hands when on offense. They pass, dribble pass, dribble and find the best shot. That's what our Flyers are lacking and they need to see this and work on doing the same things.
Instead of waiting til after the game they did this during halftime
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Old 11-27-2021, 03:40 PM
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I've watched the game a few times now. I don't think we really played all that well. We turned the ball over 20 times. We still look disjointed on offense, even though our off-the-ball movement was much better. We did play really, really hard, leading us to a good defensive game.

Holmes is a rim protector. Those have been rare at UD. He is not just a guy who sneaks in on help defense and gets a block, even though he will do that too. He is a guy that gets blocks when guys go straight at him, 1 on 1, which is a different level. 15 blocks in 6 games! Chris Wright is the all-time blocks leader at UD with 162 blocks in 123 games. Holmes is going to end up being a great interior defender when he gets stronger. He is already changing our defense by being a shot blocking menace and just changing shots and forcing double pumps.

Malachi emerged in this game as our floor leader. He has a great handle and NY moxy. His size is a liability when he stops moving and gets trapped, IMO. He has to beat the attempted traps with his speed and maneuverability. It seems like he can turn a corner on just about anyone. Keep the dribble alive and keep moving. You would think he would be something of a defensive liability with his limited size, but he is a major defensive pest with very active hands going after the ball constantly and a ton of energy. You could see him making Kansas players uncomfortable when he came in to double team them.

I still think Koby Elvis will contribute from guard position with his outside shooting, etc. I also like what I see from Lynn Greer. I feel good about the guard position.

Offensively, we are still figuring ourselves out. We just don't have our roles clearly defined yet, and we are still learning how to keep the ball moving fluidly.

Koby Brea is another guy who I feel has a ton of potential offensively. He looks like a potentially great shooter with a nice mid-range game as well.

Last edited by Fudd; 11-28-2021 at 02:49 PM..
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  #44  
Old 11-27-2021, 04:57 PM
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Holmes is gonna be something else before it's all said and done.
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Old 11-27-2021, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
. . . Offensively, we are still figuring ourselves out. We just don't have our roles clearly defined yet, and we are still learning how to keep the ball moving fluidly. . .

My observatios: Camara needs to be less of 'The Man', while Amzil needs to be more of 'The Man'.
Things are slowly coming into focus with this team = they can be scary good.

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Old 11-28-2021, 01:20 AM
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No idea if this was posted already as I've been doing family stuff the past couple days but after the game Elijah Weaver went on Instagram live from the locker room with Obi, and Jalen Crutcher joined in too.

"They think they can talk **** because they beat Kansas unlike us"

So awesome.

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Old 11-28-2021, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
In close games, we often think of coaches as chess master geniuses, but the reality is players have to make players. Amzil throws up a wild shot and victory follows. UD made dumb plays int he last 4 minutes. Kansas made dumb plays as well.

If Amzil, misses the shot, UD still played super hard. It is so great that he made it!! Seen too many bounce the wrong way over the years.

I have to eat crow. I thought these players did not know how to win. Well. Today, they played hard and won.
It's a good question, If that shot missed, are you still happy? I would have been. Not as happy as winning of course, but they are showing growth.

3 steps forward, one step back. It's all about A10 play for this team.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2021, 11:17 AM
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Kansas' number 2 made a hell of try to block the shot. If Mustapha wasn't 6'-10" with long arms he would have eaten it.

God was on our side on that one, but you just never know. We have had plenty of those fateful shots over the years going both ways.
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Mad Props to San Diego Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (11-28-2021)
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