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01-11-2014, 01:39 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Tody 5pm EST
see a real basketball team run an offense. Ladies game against St. Bonnie is streamed on daytonflyers.com.
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01-11-2014, 01:57 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Archie, the coaching staff and players need attend this game to see how to run an offense.
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01-11-2014, 02:00 PM
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General of the Air Force
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I will be at this game. I assure you that the women would also struggle against the St Louis men's defense though.
I am curious to see how many people attend this rare saturday night game.
Last edited by UDBrian; 01-11-2014 at 02:08 PM..
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01-11-2014, 02:31 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
Archie, the coaching staff and players need attend this game to see how to run an offense.
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Really? Get real man.
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01-11-2014, 02:49 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
Archie, the coaching staff and players need attend this game to see how to run an offense.
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Should they ignore the defense? I do not think the lady Flyers know there are 2 ends to the floor. 9 of their 12 games they have given up 75 or more and 7 of those 9 they have given up over 80. 1/3 of their games they have given up 89+.
Last edited by m21eagle45; 01-11-2014 at 02:53 PM..
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01-11-2014, 03:16 PM
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We ran the offense ok but when you miss 15 or more layups it's tough to win. And we don't get Sibert enough shots. He was 4/7 from the three. Get him some more shots!
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01-11-2014, 03:29 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Should they ignore the defense? I do not think the lady Flyers know there are 2 ends to the floor. 9 of their 12 games they have given up 75 or more and 7 of those 9 they have given up over 80. 1/3 of their games they have given up 89+.
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Its simple math really, not hard to figure. If you are scoring in the90 -112 point range then your opponent will get more chances as well.
If you notice teams that play slow down offense also limit their opponents to opportunities to score. Really is simple, not rocket science.
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01-11-2014, 03:31 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
I will be at this game. I assure you that the women would also struggle against the St Louis men's defense though.
I am curious to see how many people attend this rare saturday night game.
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How can you compare the women playing SLU men. ALL womens teams including UConn would have difficulty playing against SLU mens team, offense or defense.
Dayton did a good job of penetrating SLU's defense but couldn't finish. Which made SLU's defense look a whole lot better than it was. Make half our layups and its a different ball game.
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01-11-2014, 03:37 PM
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How about we just let this one go. They are all UD and we love and root for them. The men and women have both had their lowpoints and highpoints.
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01-11-2014, 03:38 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Should they ignore the defense? I do not think the lady Flyers know there are 2 ends to the floor. 9 of their 12 games they have given up 75 or more and 7 of those 9 they have given up over 80. 1/3 of their games they have given up 89+.
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And in many of those games they also scored extremely high. UD women are 5th in the nation of offense. The more UD speeds up the game it gives the opponent that many more chances to score as well.
With a target on our back teams start throwing up hail marys to score and more often than not an unknown player has the game of her life.
Last year a St Joes guard scored a career high 30 with NBA treys; last night she was 1-13 at home in a loss. In games against ranked teams you've got nothing to lose by heaving long treys. do it often enough and they start going in. UD don't have any stars but a well balanced team made up of 5 freshmen who are learning how to play D in D1 ball.
Last edited by Avid Flyer; 01-11-2014 at 03:40 PM..
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01-11-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
How can you compare the women playing SLU men. ALL womens teams including UConn would have difficulty playing against SLU mens team, offense or defense.
Dayton did a good job of penetrating SLU's defense but couldn't finish. Which made SLU's defense look a whole lot better than it was. Make half our layups and its a different ball game.
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I think Dan D. comment was spot on: The way to be St Louis is to penetrate,
NOT SHOOT because all they do is clog the lane, and kick it out for open shots --
we just kept going in the lane and looking for the highly contested shot
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01-11-2014, 04:02 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Obviously my first post was facetious as the ladies have their annual blowout loss against someone. Last year Bowling Green and this year Vanderbilt.
Meant it more as an enticement to watch the ladies play.
I am beginning to get JJ's offensive style where 20 turnovers are all part of his fast pace game. While it gets me irritated it seems to be built into his scheme.
Hope I didn't jinx the ladies tonight...St. Bonnie is having a good year.
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01-12-2014, 08:22 AM
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One thing that I forgot to mention yesterday is that Jabir's current offense is based upon what Archie taught him. Jabir changed up after having a conversation with Archie
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01-12-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era
I think Dan D. comment was spot on: The way to be St Louis is to penetrate,
NOT SHOOT because all they do is clog the lane, and kick it out for open shots --
we just kept going in the lane and looking for the highly contested shot
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Be it full court press, half court trap, or on the ball defense - you must attack the pressure. If you back up, you're toast.
In today's paper, Sibert was quoted as saying the SLU pressure - almost full out deny - forced a lot of UD's actions and made things uncomfortable. That begets bad shot selection and poor shooting percentage - exactly as it is designed to do.
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01-12-2014, 10:58 AM
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Amen. To me we did at least two things wrong in this regard. The first is picking up dribbles and assuming the pass would be there. St Louis anticipated and overplayed the passing lanes once the dribble was picked up. The second was how slow we get into our offense. Price walking the ball down and then always looking to a wing gives the defender time to find his man, get a breath and assume a tough overplay position. Earlier in the year we raced the ball down the court and into our offense. Yesterday, when we needed that we played tentative and did the opposite.
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01-12-2014, 11:23 AM
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It's not so easy to penetrate and then kick out against them for an open three because (unlike us) they don't help and sag as much, especially off our best three point shooters. I noticed several times Sibert's man stayed right with him instead of sagging/helping when we penetrated. They often let their inside men worry about the penetration and stay with our shooters. We should try that sometime. They also try to deny the ball. They don't just start guarding someone after they get the ball. We should try that too. These are not foreign ideas.
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01-12-2014, 11:36 AM
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The Majerus defense always had a principle that if you were assigned a good shooter, your help responsibilties were limited or eliminated that day.
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01-12-2014, 02:28 PM
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General
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Lontimefan and UDDoug are exactly right. I believe our defenders "provide help" far too early and far too often. This opens up the defense for the kick-out for a 3. Also, we hedge at 35 feet which provides the offensive 5 a free lane for a cut and pass. It also creates unnecessary defensive mismatches.
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01-12-2014, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Lontimefan and UDDoug are exactly right. I believe our defenders "provide help" far too early and far too often. This opens up the defense for the kick-out for a 3. Also, we hedge at 35 feet which provides the offensive 5 a free lane for a cut and pass. It also creates unnecessary defensive mismatches.
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The complaint just a handful of games ago was that they couldn't stop penetration. Now they provide the help and it is an issue? UD's issue isn't the help to stop penetration, it is poor rotation to the man whose defender just went to help the guard. Backside rotation is poor, not the original help. We get beat in the paint by the third threat, not the two guys with the ball.
Sorry, but the play by SLU on Sibert and DMO wasn't a TEAM defensive principle as much as it was their game plan. Their entire team didn't defend our best offensive players in straight up man defense. They played man, with the defender that was guarding our best offensive player, faceguarding and not leaving to help. Their goal was to prevent our scorers from getting the ball with the faceguard. The other 4 guys on the team did play proper helpside defense, but the main difference was the pressure/effort on the ball.
We don't have the ability to do that because we are ineffective with a 5 man defensive rotation, let alone a 4 man defensive rotation.
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01-12-2014, 09:36 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Good news is though we played our worst game of the year against the top of the A-10 and only lost by 8 points. While I agree with SLU's game play and defensive play once we did penetrate we couldn't put the ball in the basket even when all alone.
Will we see that type of defensive intensity again (except SLU) in the A-10?
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01-13-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Lontimefan and UDDoug are exactly right. I believe our defenders "provide help" far too early and far too often. This opens up the defense for the kick-out for a 3. Also, we hedge at 35 feet which provides the offensive 5 a free lane for a cut and pass. It also creates unnecessary defensive mismatches.
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I didn't say that. I actually think UDs rotations have been too slow and help cone late, not early. If you are going to hedge ball screens (you have to) you have to flatten our the dribbler to allow enough time to recover. That may out you further out on the floor.
I just said Majerus would remove certain guys from help assignments in the perimeter allowing one player to get a two and deny a shooter a three.
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01-13-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
We don't have the ability to do that because we are ineffective with a 5 man defensive rotation, let alone a 4 man defensive rotation.
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Which is why I don't get the where's the zone complaint. If you can't rotate in man, a zone is likely to be a cluster f##k.
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