Archie: "I don't know what to do"

[FlyerGeorge]

Midway through the second half of last night's game the camera cuts to Archie. And clear as day you can see him mouthing, "I don't know what to do" to an assistant.

Really, for me, that was it. I've tried to get behind Archie but we've seen nothing except the same 8-8 mediocrity in league play for years, and he inspires no confidence. And that was the last straw for me, I don't want him around any more.

We ran into a buzz saw yesterday. But a head coach needs to have and instill confidence. Players who know that their coach has no idea what to do when they're down are not going to listen.

This is a team that won 6 straight, sure, but BARELY. We easily could've been 3-3 in that stretch except for a bit of luck. We beat Mason handily - but it was Mason.

"I don't know what to do" coming out of a head coach's mouth on national TV??

Unacceptable.

[Beatty Town Coach]

He is being honest with himself, because he really doesn't know what to do. Take it however you want. Maybe he should have considered that part of the responsibility of the job description before accepting the position. Archie is no Martelli or Jim Crews. I am not saying that certain schools shouldn't haven given him a chance, I am just saying UD was not it, and the administration has got recognize that their hiring profiles are not doing the trick. This is UD's, and Archie's as a professional coach, chance to make the NCAA, or at-least run to the NIT Semi-finals, which I don't look to happen, but it might as well happen this year, because losing Oliver and Kav will not be that easy to replace next year. And the coaching won't be any different than what it is now.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge Midway through the second half of last night's game the camera cuts to Archie. And clear as day you can see him mouthing, "I don't know what to do" to an assistant. Really, for me, that was it. I've tried to get behind Archie but we've seen nothing except the same 8-8 mediocrity in league play for years, and he inspires no confidence. And that was the last straw for me, I don't want him around any more. We ran into a buzz saw yesterday. But a head coach needs to have and instill confidence. Players who know that their coach has no idea what to do when they're down are not going to listen. This is a team that won 6 straight, sure, but BARELY. We easily could've been 3-3 in that stretch except for a bit of luck. We beat Mason handily - but it was Mason. "I don't know what to do" coming out of a head coach's mouth on national TV?? Unacceptable.

I have coached, not on the college level, but trust me you are reading way more into this than you should... I gurantee "I dont know what to do" is more like this:

= "I can only tell them so many times how to correct it"
"How many times can you see it on film and still not recognize it"
" I can't play the spot for them"

Is some of last night Arch's fault sure, is it the players fault yes. Its a collective effort to lose by 26.

You are crazy to think Archie won't be here next here. He will win 20 games with this team. It amazes me how the expectations are for some UD fans. Have they really looked at our team and compared them to other NCAA teams. Look at the stat box from last nights game, compare the seniors to st joes, the Juniors? This is a rebuilding job folks, no other way to shake it but that. We lost 2.5 years of recruiting classes with the coaching change. Our sophomores are a make shift class because Arch got here so late the year prior.

I am not saying this team can't win games, heck they could even upset St Louis on a good night, they might make the NCAA but the fact is people got way too over excited when we beat the ZAGs and Cal. Before the season most folks I talked to werent really excited or high on this group, now most are jumping off cliffs because they may not make the NCAA. Do I expect bigger things in the future yes but I am realistic in the time frame. I am down on this loss too. It stinks and we all expected more.

I do find it funny you state, "This is a team that won 6 straight, sure, but BARELY. We easily could've been 3-3 in that stretch except for a bit of luck. We beat Mason handily - but it was Mason.

6 straight!!! in this league, with this team and the way they were struggling??? You have to give some credit at some point or else you are just wishing for the bad. Not my cup of tea but maybe for some. Peopke also forget a year or so ago when St Joe's was picked to win the league and Martelli's job was being called for?? People are fickle and they over react. Look at all the facts, the big picture. I certainly have doubts with Arch and I ecpect more but like I said I have been realistic with this program and where it currently sits.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach He is being honest with himself, because he really doesn't know what to do. Take it however you want. Maybe he should have considered that part of the responsibility of the job description before accepting the position. Archie is no Martelli or Jim Crews. I am not saying that certain schools shouldn't haven given him a chance, I am just saying UD was not it, and the administration has got recognize that their hiring profiles are not doing the trick. This is UD's, and Archie's as a professional coach, chance to make the NCAA, or at-least run to the NIT Semi-finals, which I don't look to happen, but it might as well happen this year, because losing Oliver and Kav will not be that easy to replace next year. And the coaching won't be any different then than it is now.

We'll always have Gavs and Scott in the middle next year!
Posted via Mobile Device

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I would be willing to bet, at some point in their careers, Bob Knight, Dean Smith, Coach K, or anyone else you want to pick has had that same thought either run through their mind or even said it to an assistant coach during a game, when everything they have tried up to that point in the game failed miserably.

I am not saying Archie is a genius or even deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence with those listed above, just pointing out that it might have been his was of asking an assistant for his opinion on what to try next.

[ud2]

Get off Archie's back, bad stuff happens sometimes, you have to move on, this team will still probably make the NIT at worst, which is better than UD's last 2 coaches did in their 3rd year. And the NCAA tournament is still within reach, I'm not writing this team off.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach He is being honest with himself, because he really doesn't know what to do. Take it however you want. Maybe he should have considered that part of the responsibility of the job description before accepting the position.

Agreed. I am not a head basketball coach and don't want to be, because while I love the game I don't want that responsibility. Archie accepted it.

But assume that there is something specific he was saying that about. Regardless of what it is, there's always SOMETHING to try. It may not be ideal, but if it can upset your opponent's strategy enough to turn the tables, then you've got a chance.

"I don't know what to do" is an abdication of the very ESSENCE of head coaching at this level - knowing what to do. Players aren't executing on what you're telling them to do? Sit those players. Players are executing but are being beaten by the opponent? Assess what your opponent is doing and adjust. Officials seem to be missing calls? Get in their face, get T'd up, you're down by 25, what can it hurt. Bigs can't finish their shots? Go small, push the pace.

You never, EVER, tell your team you don't know what to do.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 I have coached, not on the college level, but trust me you are reading way more into this than you should... I gurantee "I dont know what to do" is more like this: = "I can only tell them so many times how to correct it" "How many times can you see it on film and still not recognize it" " I can't play the spot for them" Is some of last night Arch's fault sure, is it the players fault yes. Its a collective effort to lose by 26. You are crazy to think Archie won't be here next here. He will win 20 games with this team. It amazes me how the expectations are for some UD fans. Have they really looked at our team and compared them to other NCAA teams. Look at the stat box from last nights game, compare the seniors to st joes, the Juniors? This is a rebuilding job folks, no other way to shake it but that. We lost 2.5 years of recruiting classes with the coaching change. Our sophomores are a make shift class because Arch got here so late the year prior. I am not saying this team can't win games, heck they could even upset St Louis on a good night but the fact is people got way too over excited when we beat the ZAGs and Cal. Before the season most folks I talked to werent really excited or high on this group, now most are jumping off cliffs because they may not make the NCAA. Do I expect bigger things in the future yes but I am realistic in the time frame.

I agree. Just because a coach utters "I don't know what to do", doesn't mean he's in over his head, not qualified or has lost his team in any way.

Am certain that some of the best in the biz, Coach K, Boeheim, Knight, etc have all had moments like that and said the same thing.

I am not excusing what happened on the floor either. It was embarrassing and atrocious. We couldn't have stopped my mother last night with that defensive performance. And we looked completely unprepared.

But you're making too much out of the "I don't know what to do."

[Beatty Town Coach]

What time frame Odrab? Based on "UD Time" that all be what 10, 20, 30, 40 years????????? What time frame? Ah, yes..."Next Year"! Never mind!

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 in this league, with this team and the way they were struggling??? You have to give some credit at some point or else you are just wishing for the bad. Not my cup of tea but maybe for some. Peopke also forget a year or so ago when St Joe's was picked to win the league and Martelli's job was being called for?? People are fickle and they over react. Look at all the facts, the big picture. I certainly have doubts with Arch and have stated as such but time will tell.

I appreciate a coach's perspective. But at the same time this is the third straight game where we hadn't left the bus by tip-off time. You're not preparing your team, when that happens.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by ud2 Get off Archie's back, bad stuff happens sometimes, you have to move on, this team will still probably make the NIT at worst, which is better than UD's last 2 coaches did in their 3rd year. And the NCAA tournament is still within reach, I'm not writing this team off.

This team is not going to the NCAA tournament.

And I refuse to continue letting the NIT be acceptable results for this team, with this fan base.

We ran into a buzz saw. Sure. But I've seen teams run into buzz saws and not look like that team last night. I've seen coaches run into buzz saws and not look lost like Archie and company.

"I don't know what to do?" - Then find another line of work. That is the CORE of your job.

[bobber]

[QUOTE=ud2;342105]Get off Archie's back, bad stuff happens sometimes, you have to move on, this team will still probably make the NIT at worst, which is better than UD's last 2 coahh
Archie will be head coach at UD for another two years. No one is going to buy out his contract. So we might as well get used to more of the same.

We need to adjust our expectations.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rollo]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER But you're making too much out of the "I don't know what to do."

'Nothing I'm doing is working' implies you're prepared but the pregame strategy and your countermoves are ineffective....and I've heard many a press conference where a head coach has uttered those words.

'I don't know what to do' means you're clueless...and I've never heard anyone above CYO say anything close to that.

Furthermore, there are some things you mutter under your breath and some things you say out loud. 'I don't know what to do' can never, ever be spoken, seen and/or heard by your Boosters, fans or players...or AD or University President.

Add to that all the f-bombs he's also heard screaming, and I genuinely believe that Archie is an incredibly knowledgeable basketball expert, but is in over his head with respect to being a head coach.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach What time frame Odrab? Based on "UD Time" that all be what 10, 20, 30, 40 years????????? What time frame? Ah, yes..."Next Year"! Never mind!

Beatty-- Let's role play

Congrats you are now the head coach of the flyers. The team made the NIT but lost. Archie took a job somewhere else.

You are able to retain- Siebert, Gav, Pierre, Scott, Robinson, Khari and lets say Pollard.

Schoochie and Davis decided to transfer.

Also Darrel Davis and 6'11"Steve Mcelervene decided not to come to Dayton.

You now have to go out and start recruiting for next years class immediately and try to win over last second recruits. You also now have to start talking to 2015 and 16 recurits who have no idea who you are or what you stand for??

What should be time frame for you?


Rewind to Archie- He had one year with Chris Johnson's group, got to enjoy Dillard but really not much else. Lost Staten, Spearman and that group minus Oliver, UD lost henton who stars for Providence and Gibson who sits Iowa St's bench. Lost out on the recurits for the last two years. Bascially filled the sophomore class with fill-ins. Pierre is really the prize of the group.

Point is...it takes time. Smaller programs just dont hire big name coaches who immediately get kids. Do I think Arch is the best X and O guy, No I don't in fact I disagree with alot of his defensive philosophies.

My time frame is when Pierre and these guys are seniors. He will have had 4 years to mold his kids and hopefully classes to back them up.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by bobber We need to adjust our expectations. Posted via Mobile Device

That's just the point. We've been adjusting expectations for YEARS.

Conference reshuffling? Adjust expectations. But how is it that we're always on the short end of the reshuffling?

New coach? Adjust expectations. But why is it that a new coach never improves us?

Recruits leave/freshmen transfer? Adjust expectations. But why is it that the transfer merry-go-round never ends up in our favor?

My expectations are a CONSISTENT team that plays against QUALITY competition and has a LEGITIMATE chance of getting into the NCAA tournament without having to back their way in.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by rollo 'Nothing I'm doing is working' implies you're prepared but the pregame strategy and your countermoves are ineffective....and I've heard many a press conference where a head coach has uttered those words. 'I don't know what to do' means you're clueless...and I've never heard anyone above CYO say anything close to that. Furthermore, there are some things you mutter under your breath and some things you say out loud. 'I don't know what to do' can never, ever be spoken, seen and/or heard by your Boosters, fans or players...or AD or University President. Add to that all the f-bombs he's also heard screaming, and I genuinely believe that Archie is an incredibly knowledgeable basketball expert, but is in over his head with respect to being a head coach.

So what would people say if during the Gonzaga game or the win streak we saw him say "I know exactly what I'm doing"

[Odrab14]

People will take me as defending Archie. I am not. I do not accept 26 point losses well. But I do think we needed to move on from Gregory. I am not sold on Archie but I also am realistic to the hand he was dealt. This program has too good of a fan base, facilities and tradition to be where it currently is. But some of this was put long in motion prior to Archie being here. Time will tell what Archie can do. But with that said IMO if I am being real I think his seat starts warming up maybe next season without results and for my money Wabler too.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 So what would people say if during the Gonzaga game or the win streak we saw him say "I know exactly what I'm doing"

"Atta boy Archie, hell yeah ya do! Now go home and (enjoy intimate relationships with) your wife, you confident stud, you!"

But it won't happen. Because I don't think he has a clue, even when we're winning.

It's like a weather forecaster putting the same 5-day forecast up every night. Sure, eventually it's going to be spot on, but he has no confidence about it even then, but it's pure guesswork and naive intuition, not strategy or study.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge That's just the point. We've been adjusting expectations for YEARS. Conference reshuffling? Adjust expectations. But how is it that we're always on the short end of the reshuffling? New coach? Adjust expectations. But why is it that a new coach never improves us? Recruits leave/freshmen transfer? Adjust expectations. But why is it that the transfer merry-go-round never ends up in our favor? My expectations are a CONSISTENT team that plays against QUALITY competition and has a LEGITIMATE chance of getting into the NCAA tournament without having to back their way in.

??????

According to your last statement, as of 02/26/2014 your expecatations are being met "CONSISTENT team that plays against QUALITY competition and has a LEGITIMATE chance of getting into the NCAA "

Consistent = 19-9 7-6
Quality Wins- Beat Gonzaga, Cal, Ole Miss, GW,
Bad Losses= USC, Illinois St, Rhody
NCAA= they will be in the next four out

Saturday will tell alot

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge That's just the point. We've been adjusting expectations for YEARS. Conference reshuffling? Adjust expectations. But how is it that we're always on the short end of the reshuffling? New coach? Adjust expectations. But why is it that a new coach never improves us? Recruits leave/freshmen transfer? Adjust expectations. But why is it that the transfer merry-go-round never ends up in our favor? My expectations are a CONSISTENT team that plays against QUALITY competition and has a LEGITIMATE chance of getting into the NCAA tournament without having to back their way in.

Probable NIT bid or better in the 3rd year is an improvement over the last 2 coaches...many other teams have to back into the NCAA tournament sometimes...baby steps.

Hardly nobody on here thought this team could contend for the NCAA's this year, many posters raised their expectations for this year, probably without even realizing that they had done so.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 ?????? According to your last statement, as of 02/26/2014 your expecatations are being met "CONSISTENT team that plays against QUALITY competition and has a LEGITIMATE chance of getting into the NCAA "

How does that Kool-Aid taste, is it cherry?

Consistent? You're joking.
Quality competition? Yes, we are playing quality competition.
Legitimate shot at the tourney? This team is not going to the tournament.

Yes, they won 6 straight, but the SOS over that stretch is abysmal. The tournament committee will give a 26-win team a pass on a game or two like this. But a 19-to-21 win team is going to be scrutinized. We won't pass muster. Sorry.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge How does that Kool-Aid taste, is it cherry? Consistent? You're joking. Quality competition? Yes, we are playing quality competition. Legitimate shot at the tourney? This team is not going to the tournament. Yes, they won 6 straight, but the SOS over that stretch is abysmal. The tournament committee will give a 26-win team a pass on a game or two like this. But a 19-to-21 win team is going to be scrutinized. We won't pass muster. Sorry.

You obviously dont read my stuff, I am far from kool Aid. I picked this team to win 19 games. But to answer his expectations yes this team is meeting it. They are bing considered as an NCAA team. Every major bracketoligist has them listed. Do I think they will get in? No...But they are near the bubble.

[Odrab14]

This thread will continue with all the hate and honestly there are those who just wait for the next loss to come on here

From another thread with a quote from fellow UdPrider DNUTZ77:

What I didn't miss the last six games

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the pizzing and moaning, fire the coach, recruit better, mediocre BS whining. It's one game on the road and UD laid a big fat egg. Anyone think they would win six in a row after starting 1-5? Very few of you because you ripped me for starting a thread about waiting until the A-10 season was a little further along before we started the "wait till next year" mantra.

Win Saturday and get back on track.



Thanks D77

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 But they are near the bubble.

Were...

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 He will win 20 games with this team. It amazes me how the expectations are for some UD fans.

Again, again, and again, it's isn't the win-loss record that many here are upset about. It's about the product on the court, about how they are winning and losing. Last night, this team gave little effort, had no sense of urgency, and played as if they were just going through the motions. It is inexcusable for such an important game, or for any game. If they were losing yet leaving everything they had in them on the court, I doubt there would be such the outcry, considering their record.

The last straw last night for me was watching Sibert chuck a three in the first half and then just stand there watching the opposing player hustle for the rebound only a few steps away. That was the epitome of the entire game, and season.

I'm not calling to fire him after this season. I want him to grow from it. I want him to be successful here, but I would only give him one more year. More of the same next year, it's time to move on.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by rollo Were...

From Jerry Palm:

Dayton took a beating at St. Joesph's, which isn't that bad of a loss, but it was enough to knock the Flyers back into the first four out. The Hawks are a bubble team too, so it was good for them to defend their home floor.

[FlyerGeorge]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 This thread will continue with all the hate and honestly there are those who just wait for the next loss to come on here I will conclude my posting on this thread with a quote from another thread and fellow UdPrider DNUTZ77: What I didn't miss the last six games -------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the pizzing and moaning, fire the coach, recruit better, mediocre BS whining. It's one game on the road and UD laid a big fat egg. Anyone think they would win six in a row after starting 1-5? Very few of you because you ripped me for starting a thread about waiting until the A-10 season was a little further along before we started the "wait till next year" mantra. Win Saturday and get back on track. Thanks D77

Yes, I know what you're saying. But should we not be able to come on here after a bad loss and ask what's to be done? Or why the coach is saying things that should never EVERevereverever be caught by a TV camera?

"Win Saturday and get back on track." And then... if we lose Saturday... the chant will be "we'll get them next game, this one didn't really matter." THAT'S what's so immensely frustrating. It's ALWAYS a big game, until we lose, and then, well, we didn't really need it after all?

I'm a huge fan of the Flyers, always have been, and publicly so. I've supported coaches even when I disagreed with what I was seeing, even when I was disappointed in what we were seeing. This is too much, though.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 But I do think we needed to move on from Gregory.

Good gawd, haven't we already moved on from BG? Why is he even a part of the argument. It's been three seasons now, this doesn't have anything to do with him, OP, JO, DD, or any other past UD coach. This is Archie's program now, this is his team. It has nothing to do with the past.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by JimBo Again, again, and again, it's isn't the win-loss record that many here are upset about. It's about the product on the court, about how they are winning and losing. Last night, this team gave little effort, had no sense of urgency, and played as if they were just going through the motions. It is inexcusable for such an important game, or for any game. If they were losing yet leaving everything they had in them on the court, I doubt there would be such the outcry, considering their record. The last straw last night for me was watching Sibert chuck a three in the first half and then just stand there watching the opposing player hustle for the rebound only a few steps away. That was the epitome of the entire game, and season. I'm not calling to fire him after this season. I want him to grow from it. I want him to be successful here, but I would only give him one more year. More of the same next year, it's time to move on.

Completely Agree with this!!!!!

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 Saturday will tell alot

No, last night said a lot. It's really a false hope that this team will magically find themselves in the last three games. We haven't beaten anyone of any significance since Maui. How in the world would anyone think we can now? Last night was the epitome of the season. They can beat teams of lesser quality, but continually lays eggs when they come up against tough competition.

I can see them maybe winning one of the games at home, maybe go 1-3, but 0-3 is much more likely. And nothing they've done recently shows me they will make any noise in the tournament. One and done is the likeliest outcome.

I don't mean to pick on you Odrab, just a few of your comments. I'm just letting out some frustration.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Well Odrab it's not my job to role play, oh no, "I don't know what I am doing"! Since you want me to be role play victim, I ask you, does Archie or Wabler, or Curran, want to pay to watch this stuff anymore? Because I can assure that if they put the coaching contract in front of me, I am sure as hell not going to keep doing the same ignorant things over and over again, and just keep hanging on the bottom rung with some old tired argument about next year or when I finally have a group that I recruited, in which no one defected, and that whole group is now fourth of fifth year seniors. Good God, that scenario may never come to complete fruition, as you might wait ten years, or forever for that to happen.

Sure, as a coach, I want a 10 year guarantee; but as an administrator can I afford to give every coach in the door a 6 or 7 to ten year guarantee. The answer is suppose to be NO, I cannot, but UD doesn't mind, not a bit, their fine with it, and that's part of the problem. Coach Gregory would have liked to stay here, there is zero question about it, and he has practically acknowledged his feelings in a pre-game interview, he is heart broken to leave UD. But certainly he couldn't stay any longer, that just wasn't acceptable. This isn't about being a nice guy versus being a jerk, its about management and leadership.

I don't have to rewind to remind myself of how unfair the circumstances were when so and so became the head coach. That's a bunch of nonsensical bull; the job is Archie's, he inherits both the perks and the responsibilities and is to be evaluated as such. By the time Pierre is a senior (as you put it), there will be other issues that arise, such as defections by recruits, transfers, injuries, off the court suspensions, under-performance or under-development by a player versus what folks thought said player was capable of coming out of high school, that stuff never ends in college basketball, every school deals with, and apparently many of UD's direct cohorts deal with it substantially and comparatively better.

I never said anything about hiring a "big name" or "big time" coach, what I am referencing is the very obvious hiring profile UD is using, is both not working, and has, at the very least, a mere appearance of being like "fools gold". Get rid of it!

Your attempt to force me into role play, is like calling me out as if I am a pathetic arm chair or Monday morning coach or quarter back. Well perhaps, but if UD puts the head coaching contract in front of me, you can believe, that the mentality, the strategy, the game preparation both on and off the court, the pre-game warm-ups, and the scheduling model will change...assuming the administration will allow a head coach to impact the scheduling model, which I kind of question.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[AC91]

man. itwas a bad night. if i was archie i would have shown some exasperation, too. just fundamental breakdowns for this team, and the players are not good enough collectively to do that. I was behind the UD bench and after watching players forget the fundamentals of what gave them 19 wins (they didn't get those with quick, ill advised shot, not looking to make another pass, dribbling too much, being impatient), with Archie imploring them the whole way. I was beside myself watching. and i'm sure archie was too. To me, if he's guilty of something, perhaps he needs to manage better what he verbalizes. easier said than done for a young, fiery guy. That part of coaching he will learn, as they all do. to read any more into it than that is beyond a stretch. And for those of you who believe that making a coaching change, with a coach who will at least meet (still with a chance to exceed) preseason expectations is in the best interests of the program and UD are certifiable in my mind. So much of what has caused UD to not break through stems back to lack of continuity when coaching changes were made. JOB won his first year with 6 DD seniors and then clearly had issues. So we clean house again 5 years later and have OP rebuild. then 8 years later OP stops recruiting, he leaves and UD cleans house again, leaving BG with a recruiting hole and rebuild job. Then, the staten issues combined with the departure of BG and the loss of key recruits lead to another house cleaning and rebuild job. we really want to create that kind of hole again, with 20 + wins and still at least a sniff of the dance? That's crazy. Look, I'm not saying discussion don't need to be had after the season, and changes don't need to be made to the ways we operate. Heck, if you want to hold someone accountable for the systemic issues, like the lack of continuity during coaching changes, then maybe you do something with the AD (and i'm not sure you do), but do not screw with the entire basketball program, program stability and its recruiting pipeline because you are dissatisfied with a coach who will probably win at least 21 or 22 games in his third year and a 1.5 year recruiting hole.

[Odrab14]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge Yes, I know what you're saying. But should we not be able to come on here after a bad loss and ask what's to be done? Or why the coach is saying things that should never EVERevereverever be caught by a TV camera? "Win Saturday and get back on track." And then... if we lose Saturday... the chant will be "we'll get them next game, this one didn't really matter." THAT'S what's so immensely frustrating. It's ALWAYS a big game, until we lose, and then, well, we didn't really need it after all? I'm a huge fan of the Flyers, always have been, and publicly so. I've supported coaches even when I disagreed with what I was seeing, even when I was disappointed in what we were seeing. This is too much, though.

Personally I had watched St Joes some this year and Dayton and at Hawk Hill I thought no way we win this game. Didnt see losing by 26 but saw a loss. Wish I was a gambling man!!! Maybe thats why I am not so bothered by this as some

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by JimBo Again, again, and again, it's isn't the win-loss record that many here are upset about. It's about the product on the court, about how they are winning and losing. Last night, this team gave little effort, had no sense of urgency, and played as if they were just going through the motions. It is inexcusable for such an important game, or for any game. If they were losing yet leaving everything they had in them on the court, I doubt there would be such the outcry, considering their record...

DING! DING! DING!

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

This team reminds me of last year's Cincinnati Reds, who played the last 2 weeks of the season like it was Spring Training. No sense of urgency. No desire to seize the moment. More of an "Oh, well, there's always tomorrow!" mindset. This basketball team (and that baseball team) obviously don't adhere to the mantra to "Live every day as if it's your last". And while that motto can be taken to extremes, is it too much to ask for them to put forth a much better effort than what they displayed in Philly last night? I don't think so.

[longtimefan67]

I reported in the game thread yesterday that I saw Arch say "I don't know what to do" and I railed him for saying it. I know it was likely out of frustration so I'll say this: if Bob Knight would have been coaching this game, (and I've seen games like yesterday's when BK coached at IU and they were getting their asses handed to them) he would have benched the starters and put in kids who wanted to follow directions and play defense. He would have gone to a 2-3 zone, full court press or any number of things. Even Abdulnaby was commenting on "non existent defense" UD was showing. I like Archie; he was hired under difficult circumstance. He's a work in progress and like all young coaches - has a lot to learn. Saturday will tell the direction of this team. I'm not writing the team off; when they play hard, they can play with and beat almost anybody- it just bothers me that they came into this game mentally unfit when most of us on this board were thinking payback for a desperation 3 that beat them a few weeks prior to this same team. If ever I thought a UD team wanted to prove something and extract revenge - it should have been last night. That game just doesn't compute with anybody who has a competitive attitude. See you all Saturday....
Posted via Mobile Device

[TheSixthMan]

Terrible loss, still think we will win our two home games and two tournament games. That's all we can ask for. Not a bad year in my opinion.
Do you guys really believe UD deserves better than Archie? In all honesty, theres a better chance of him getting a better offer than getting fired.

[longtimefan67]

I agree- he will leave well before being fired is ever a possibility
Posted via Mobile Device

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by TheSixthMan Terrible loss, still think we will win our two home games and two tournament games. That's all we can ask for. Not a bad year in my opinion. Do you guys really believe UD deserves better than Archie? In all honesty, theres a better chance of him getting a better offer than getting fired.

I don't dislike Archie Miller, he's a good guy, no question. And you are right, he stands just as good of a chance of getting bigger offer as he does getting fired. Unfortunately though that says a lot about UD and the other administrators views of UD, and a lot less about Archie's coaching ability. The fact that you can be very mediocre in this sport and get a huge promotion and contract somewhere does lend itself to a very unsettling and disturbing trend in college basketball. The bigger questions would be, based on his performance here, would he deserve it? And, would the other school be getting what they pay for in Archie? How is Gregory working out for GTECH? Oh, that's right, Gregory hasn't gotten his needed decade yet!! Well, don't expect Tech to wait the eight to ten before showing him the door.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I agree- he will leave well before being fired is ever a possibility Posted via Mobile Device

Huh? What? I might have misread your post. Based upon his current body of work at UD, where is AM going to go? I don't think so far that he has earned a promotion to a better job. IMO, the jury is still out on AM, but I am cautiously optimistic.

And you posters are misreading the BG to GT thing, BG would not have gotten that job IMO if GT hadn't been in a financial bind. Good performance still determines who gets promoted, BG's promotion was an extraordinary/abnormal circumstance.

[Whacker]

For me the one and only bar is 10 conference wins. Period. That should put you in the top four in conf most years and prove that you have a puncher's chance in the conference tourney. Dayton has proved adept in scheduling non-conf wins.

For me personally, Archie has next year to get those 10 wins. I don't care how they get them. I don't care what they look like. I don't care where they get them. But anything less than ten conference wins in your fourth year and you are not getting the job done you were hired to do.

[MrFlyerFanatic]

I've heard many coaches say "I don't know what to do." I've usually heard them say it to me and my teammates as a player and to to teams and coaches when I was a trainer.
As Orad14 said above, it's out of frustration. I can recall with great clarity my basketball coach saying those exact words to us during timeouts and half time of several games when we were playing poorly and losing badly. It was usually followed by "We worked on this in practice" or "I can't make you want to win, that's up to you." One of my all-time favorites (although not at the time as we were getting screamed at) was "if you don't want to play, we can go home. I'll tell the referee you don't want to play and we'll pick up out stuff and go home."
What am I saying?
It's CONTEXT.
Archie likely expresses frustration to an assistant who he also likely had previously consulted with, and some people on this board blow it up and accuse Archie of being incompetent and ignorant. Had the camera not been focused on him at that very moment, this thread would not exist.
Take a step back and get some perspective.

[Beatty Town Coach]

and if winning wasn't a criteria for the NCAA Tournament, UD would be dancers of nothing, every year. In fact they already are!

[Chris R]

I think the general frustration goes back to the article I wrote a month ago: play like a #4 seed in the NCAA tournament until January 1, then a #4 seed NIT team after New Year's. Average it out and its the perennial bubble.

When you start 1-5 in the A10, this is the corner you paint yourself into. Flyer fans want to be 9-4 or 10-3 right now, not 7-6. My general bottom is no fewer than 10 league wins in any season, with the typical season earning 11-13 wins.

Will we ever get there? I get more skeptical every time another season comes and goes.

I think we can win 2 of our last three - the home games.

[purpieschu]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach What time frame Odrab? Based on "UD Time" that all be what 10, 20, 30, 40 years????????? What time frame? Ah, yes..."Next Year"! Never mind!

Does anyone believe we are likely to be better next year? I do not. Has anyone seen signs of Archie maturing as a coach? I have not. How long does Archie get? Certainly at least through next year. What if we are .500 next year? Unless we have some dynamite recruits coming in, does UD stay the course? I don't know what the right answer is. I just know last night was embarrassing and I am oh so frustrated.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by FlyerGeorge Agreed. I am not a head basketball coach and don't want to be, because while I love the game I don't want that responsibility. Archie accepted it. But assume that there is something specific he was saying that about. Regardless of what it is, there's always SOMETHING to try. It may not be ideal, but if it can upset your opponent's strategy enough to turn the tables, then you've got a chance. "I don't know what to do" is an abdication of the very ESSENCE of head coaching at this level - knowing what to do. Players aren't executing on what you're telling them to do? Sit those players. Players are executing but are being beaten by the opponent? Assess what your opponent is doing and adjust. Officials seem to be missing calls? Get in their face, get T'd up, you're down by 25, what can it hurt. Bigs can't finish their shots? Go small, push the pace. You never, EVER, tell your team you don't know what to do.

He didn't; he told an assistant. It was apparent to me and many others that while it looked bad the real blame is on the players. Whatever the game plan was they weren't executing it. Even the announcers stated that when the flyers packed for their trip they left their defense home. Everyone to a T in the post just stepped aside and let the dribble pnetration train run. Even a seive has some resistance but the post players no mater who they were just watched as SJU scored at will.

"I don't know what to do" if he said that is an indication the team either wasn't listening or just not playing what they had practiced.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Huh? What? I might have misread your post. Based upon his current body of work at UD, where is AM going to go? I don't think so far that he has earned a promotion to a better job. IMO, the jury is still out on AM, but I am cautiously optimistic. And you posters are misreading the BG to GT thing, BG would not have gotten that job IMO if GT hadn't been in a financial bind. Good performance still determines who gets promoted, BG's promotion was an extraordinary/abnormal circumstance.

And he was smart for jumping at it for the mess that was brewing in the program. We can debate all day long as to whom that fell upon but UD and BG did not air out the laundry for others to see. The outcome was unfortunate for most everyone concerned. Yes BG got to a perceived bigger conference but is that where he really wanted to be. Wasn't for his wife thats for sure.

[Beatty Town Coach]

But the team can see it Avid, and they feel the vibe and strength or lack thereof from the Head Coach, and all the coaches for that matter. It would not have been my optimal choice of words for a head coach in that moment, or any moment, but I think its time to let that comment go. It is over, he said it, it happened, and their is no way to go back and undo it.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic I've heard many coaches say "I don't know what to do." I've usually heard them say it to me and my teammates as a player and to to teams and coaches when I was a trainer. As Orad14 said above, it's out of frustration. I can recall with great clarity my basketball coach saying those exact words to us during timeouts and half time of several games when we were playing poorly and losing badly. It was usually followed by "We worked on this in practice" or "I can't make you want to win, that's up to you." One of my all-time favorites (although not at the time as we were getting screamed at) was "if you don't want to play, we can go home. I'll tell the referee you don't want to play and we'll pick up out stuff and go home." What am I saying? It's CONTEXT. Archie likely expresses frustration to an assistant who he also likely had previously consulted with, and some people on this board blow it up and accuse Archie of being incompetent and ignorant. Had the camera not been focused on him at that very moment, this thread would not exist. Take a step back and get some perspective.

Great post and very well stated. I swear some people on this thread have never played or coached a sport. Sometime as a player you try and try and nothing is going right. You do not have intensity, and you do not know why and cannot get it back. As a coach, you have prepared your team, you are fired up, you fire them up, and they burst out of the locker room... and fall flat. They are getting beat and it wears psychologically and they lose confidence. You yell and scream and change offenses and defenses and substitute and nothing works because they feel beaten. Meanwhile the other team is confident and fired up and they play loose. You feel helpless and you are.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by purpieschu Does anyone believe we are likely to be better next year? I do not. Has anyone seen signs of Archie maturing as a coach? I have not. How long does Archie get? Certainly at least through next year. What if we are .500 next year? Unless we have some dynamite recruits coming in, does UD stay the course? I don't know what the right answer is. I just know last night was embarrassing and I am oh so frustrated.

Yes actually, as has been stated AM got what was available when he took over late in the recruiting game and lost the ones that had already committed plus two players already on the team. Thats 4 players we would have had that either left or opted out of their ship.

He has worked with what he has and like all of us isint getting their best effort game in and game out. Not sure some of our current underclassmen would do all that well at a D2 school. Perhaps Archie needs to address that at the end of the school year.

Scouting and game planning is on the coaches; execution is on the players. When the announcers are calling out the players for their non existent defense it speaks volumes; and that is on the players.

So the bottom line in answer to the initial question; if you don't think they will be better then why waist your time and find a new interest.

[purpieschu]

"So the bottom line in answer to the initial question; if you don't think they will be better then why waist your time and find a new interest."

Because I am a graduate and a fan you moron. You people who get offended when anyone questions the program or the administration are so annoying.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by jack72 Great post and very well stated. I swear some people on this thread have never played or coached a sport. Sometime as a player you try and try and nothing is going right. You do not have intensity, and you do not know why and cannot get it back. As a coach, you have prepared your team, you are fired up, you fire them up, and they burst out of the locker room... and fall flat. They are getting beat and it wears psychologically and they lose confidence. You yell and scream and change offenses and defenses and substitute and nothing works because they feel beaten. Meanwhile the other team is confident and fired up and they play loose. You feel helpless and you are.

A good example of this would be this year's Super Bowl.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 Great post and very well stated. I swear some people on this thread have never played or coached a sport. Sometime as a player you try and try and nothing is going right. You do not have intensity, and you do not know why and cannot get it back. As a coach, you have prepared your team, you are fired up, you fire them up, and they burst out of the locker room... and fall flat. They are getting beat and it wears psychologically and they lose confidence. You yell and scream and change offenses and defenses and substitute and nothing works because they feel beaten. Meanwhile the other team is confident and fired up and they play loose. You feel helpless and you are.

For those who follow the women that is exactly what happened today in the repeat game against SLU. Flyers came out flat and SLU was hyped. Played very physical and led at halftime 36-25. Unlike the men the ladies came out in the second half and outscore SLU 42-22.

Its mindbogglingly how athletes just don't bring it on game day. JJ subed frequently in the first half. Some posters were putting the blame on him for their poor play as the team couldn't get any flow with all the substitutions. However I felt it was more than that. JJ knows his players well and saw what he didn't like out of the starters and subed freely trying to see anyone came to play today. Thank God for haltimes as that is where the regroup and realize they have a game to finish and home court to protect; and protect they did.

So its not just the men, or just UD. St Joe got beat by 40 points against Villanova earlier in the year. UD gave Mason their worst defeat of the year. It is what it is.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by purpieschu "So the bottom line in answer to the initial question; if you don't think they will be better then why waist your time and find a new interest." Because I am a graduate and a fan you moron. You people who get offended when anyone questions the program or the administration are so annoying.

Name calling very classy.

And obviously you haven't been reading my posts. I have been very critical of the coaches, players and administration. I even called for a black out so I think I have questioned the program at length. But I answered your question and if you don't want honest answers then don't ask them.

Actually I find posters who resort to name calling quite annoying.

[rollo]

You described the women's game exactly as it happened but you can't compare them to the boy's team.

The women bust it hard 19/20 games and rarely have they walked off the court with anyone thinking they didn't get their money's worth.

The boys have played one game this season (Cal) as hard as what we're learning to expect from the women on a nightly basis.

Nobody's going to fault the boys for not outscoring their opponents...they're going to fault them for not outworking, outhustling or outsmarting them. Same with the coaches.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by purpieschu Does anyone believe we are likely to be better next year? I do not. Has anyone seen signs of Archie maturing as a coach? I have not. How long does

I'm really worried about next year. I like Pierre a lot, even though he's had his moments this year, and I think Scoochie can become a great guard and leader. The rest of the roster is full of complimentary players. I don't see a Chris Wright, Chris Johnson, Brooks Hall, Negele Knight, or a Roosevelt Chapman, just to name a few. Players that are stars and set the tone for their teams. Those who lead by example and hard work.

The only way this team improves next season is through development, and I haven't seen much of that through Archie's three seasons. I see a lot of lateral progression.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Yes actually, as has been stated AM got what was available when he took over late in the recruiting game and lost the ones that had already committed plus two players already on the team. Thats 4 players we would have had that either left or opted out of their ship.

I agree he wasn't left much talent on the underclassmen side, but he had a pretty solid roster that first season, and he coached it to a lackluster first round loss in the NIT.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by JimBo I agree he wasn't left much talent on the underclassmen side, but he had a pretty solid roster that first season, and he coached it to a lackluster first round loss in the NIT.

Yea but that was his first year as HC. JOB did the most in his first year taking the league championship and going to second week in the NCAA....but then...

[Beatty Town Coach]

...but then...the door hit him where the good lord hit split him, and the sun don't shine. But UD is a much different vessel these days, and they don't expect too awful much in 2014 at the University on the Hill. Standards have gone down and Kool Aid drinking has risen greatly. So, to use your own words Avid...that ought to tell you something.

[rollo]

Since Archie doesn't know what to do, I'll make this suggestion...

Bench Sibert and Sanford on Saturday...not from starting but from playing. Our highly coveted BCS transfers and the 2 most highly rated players on this team (out of HS) combined to play 41 minutes last night and combined to grab 0 (with a z) rebounds.

0...should also equal their on-the-court minutes against UMass.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by Odrab14 6 straight!!! in this league, with this team and the way they were struggling??? You have to give some credit at some point or else you are just wishing for the bad. Not my cup of tea but maybe for some. Peopke also forget a year or so ago when St Joe's was picked to win the league and Martelli's job was being called for?? People are fickle and they over react. Look at all the facts, the big picture. I certainly have doubts with Arch and I ecpect more but like I said I have been realistic with this program and where it currently sits.

Great post

[keats '91]

I just don't know...
Has the team over achieved all year and we just aren't there yet?
Or did the team play one really, really bad game?

I have a hard time believing the entire team plays that collectively bad as just one really bad game. But maybe there aren't enough of the pieces to survive one or two key people/positions playing that bad.
Could have guessed that Matt was going to struggle against StJoe's bigs and sagging D.
And I guess we have been a jump shooting team all year... good shooting, we win. Bad shooting, we lose. And that 3 game in 6 day stretch that was discussed.

I just don't know... as I mellow from game time, I start to move towards one really, really bad game.

[Falcon7]

Originally Posted by Chris R I think the general frustration goes back to the article I wrote a month ago: play like a #4 seed in the NCAA tournament until January 1, then a #4 seed NIT team after New Year's. Average it out and its the perennial bubble. When you start 1-5 in the A10, this is the corner you paint yourself into. Flyer fans want to be 9-4 or 10-3 right now, not 7-6. My general bottom is no fewer than 10 league wins in any season, with the typical season earning 11-13 wins. Will we ever get there? I get more skeptical every time another season comes and goes. I think we can win 2 of our last three - the home games.

^I agree with your post, Except:
Sure we could win 2 of the last 3, but I think 1 is a realistic number.
More likely to win 0 than 2.
Like you said, it's just THE SAME OLD CRAP, Followed by THE SAME OLD CRAP ect. ect. ect.....................

[Sticks 'n Stearns]

I understand what odrab is saying - Archie was behind the 8-ball because of 2 transfers and 2 recruits that decided to go elsewhere when BG left. So I see that side of the argument. And Archie's "I don't know what to do" comment doesn't bother me at all. I didn't know what to do either, so I just changed the channel. I bet Archie wishes he had that luxury last night.

But the frustration comes in when you see our rival lose Prosser, Matta, Miller, etc and just keep on winning. Why can't we do that? So we're going to have to wait until Archie's fourth or fifth year before we can expect results? Maybe a NCAA tournament win in a couple of years, followed by a new coach and then another 4 or 5 years of NITs? I'm not that patient.

Some people think we can go 2-1 in our last 3, and maybe win a game or two in the A-10 tournament and make The Dance. That puts us at 7th place in the A-10, with at least four teams ahead of us who have better resumes. Does anyone really think the selection committee is going to give the A-10 5 bids? 3-0 and a win or two in the conference tournament will likely do it, but this team is 0-5 against the top 5 teams in the conference - they aren't winning the next three.

I like the fight this team showed for six games - they could've mailed it in against the lower-tier teams but they didn't. But it's frustrating that we're sitting here again saying "Wait til next year, or maybe the year after" after the season started so promising.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by purpieschu Does anyone believe we are likely to be better next year? I do not. Has anyone seen signs of Archie maturing as a coach? I have not. How long does Archie get? Certainly at least through next year. What if we are .500 next year? Unless we have some dynamite recruits coming in, does UD stay the course? I don't know what the right answer is. I just know last night was embarrassing and I am oh so frustrated.

I'm not into lip reading, so I don't really care what Archie may have said or not said while his team was getting drilled. But this post I agree with in terms of expectations next year. I feel Jalen, Scott and Dyshawn have all regressed this year. These three will need to really step up their games next year if they want to even be close to this year's team in terms of results. This is why making the dance is so important this year. It's not happening next year. Then what? The heat will really be on Arch.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles I'm not into lip reading, so I don't really care what Archie may have said or not said while his team was getting drilled. But this post I agree with in terms of expectations next year. I feel Jalen, Scott and Dyshawn have all digressed this year. These three will need to really step up their games next year if they want to even be close to this year's team in terms of results. This is why making the dance is so important this year. It's not happening next year. Then what? The heat will really be on Arch.

Who do we have coming in next year? Is it a expected to be a good class?

Then again, Prider views are less than credible. I recall hearing about "Scoochie" as if he was Bob Cousy. Haven't heard much lately.

Very good teams get significant help right off the bat from at least one freshman.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Who do we have coming in next year? Is it a expected to be a good class? Then again, Prider views are less than credible. I recall hearing about "Scoochie" as if he was Bob Cousy. Haven't heard much lately. Very good teams get significant help right off the bat from at least one freshman.

A 6'4 shooting guard from Michigan who I've read can score and a 6'11 center from Indiana who is big. That is as much as I know. What I do know is I've followed UD basketball long enough to know not to count on an incoming frosh to make much of a difference.

Meanwhile, we lose DMO, our best player, Vee, our best bench player and #35, who has been our best post player in conference. It doesn't look promising.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!! This team reminds me of last year's Cincinnati Reds, who played the last 2 weeks of the season like it was Spring Training. No sense of urgency. No desire to seize the moment. More of an "Oh, well, there's always tomorrow!" mindset. This basketball team (and that baseball team) obviously don't adhere to the mantra to "Live every day as if it's your last". And while that motto can be taken to extremes, is it too much to ask for them to put forth a much better effort than what they displayed in Philly last night? I don't think so.

I remember BG's first recruiting class; Jimmie TM and company. Five freshmen. It was a game against Huggy Bear's Bearcats at UD arena. We were getting beaten by the more experienced Bearcats but the fans gave the freshmen and team a standing ovation in the closing minutes even though it was obvious they would lose....why because there wasn't a loose ball on the court that at least two flyers were on the floor fighting for the ball. That is why Dayton fans are considered "knowledgeable" fans. The one thing we will always appreciate is "EFFORT" even in losing.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Who do we have coming in next year? Is it a expected to be a good class? Then again, Prider views are less than credible. I recall hearing about "Scoochie" as if he was Bob Cousy. Haven't heard much lately. Very good teams get significant help right off the bat from at least one freshman.

Like last years ladies team, sixth youngest team in the country having lost 7 seniors the year before; got immediate contributions from most everyone. Yes I know womens games are different than mens, but they were not playing cupcakes, taking down ranked teams etc.

It happens; just not to the UD's mens team

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer I remember BG's first recruiting class; Jimmie TM and company. Five freshmen. It was a game against Huggy Bear's Bearcats at UD arena. We were getting beaten by the more experienced Bearcats but the fans gave the freshmen and team a standing ovation in the closing minutes even though it was obvious they would lose....why because there wasn't a loose ball on the court that at least two flyers were on the floor fighting for the ball. That is why Dayton fans are considered "knowledgeable" fans. The one thing we will always appreciate is "EFFORT" even in losing.

GREAT POINT! I remember those games and the excitement their effort brought to everyone.

Because with incredible or extra effort, there's hope...and where there's hope there's possibility that brings with it energy and encouragement.

With that said, it's not the fan's job to fire up the team...it's the team's job to fire up the fans. So if the Arena is quiet during warm-ups and tipoff on Saturday, it's not a poor reflection of the Flyer Faithful (who have earned that title), it's a response to the effort (not results) of the boys in uniform.

	Flyer Faithful FLYER FAITHFUL Best college basketball fans in the country. Knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and loyal. Help to create one of the toughest home courts in the nation at UD Arena. Over 12,000 fans a game put the Flyers in the Top-30 nationally in attendance. Fan spirit and support growing to other UD sports and athletic programs as well.

[Avid Flyer]

Ah I just figured it out. Brilliant strategy by Archie and the flyers. Tonight UMass is playing at home against Rhode Island and leading by one, 31-30. Since UMass was obviously watching last nights game UD didn't give them anyting to plan their strategy for Saturday against us. Brilliant I say

Unless of course we keep the lights on for UMass as they dribble drive in the lane. Wouldn't want them to knock one of our players down.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns Some people think we can go 2-1 in our last 3, and maybe win a game or two in the A-10 tournament and make The Dance. That puts us at 7th place in the A-10, with at least four teams ahead of us who have better resumes. Does anyone really think the selection committee is going to give the A-10 5 bids? 3-0 and a win or two in the conference tournament will likely do it, but this team is 0-5 against the top 5 teams in the conference - they aren't winning the next three.

The A-10 should get at least 5 bids, St Louis, VCU, UMass, GW, and St Joe. If Richmond or UD make a run the rest of the season (2-1) and in the A-10 Tourney (making at least the semis) it could be 6.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Canonball]

We need to play these last 3 games in Maui.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Canonball We need to play these last 3 games in Maui.

I need to watch these 3 games while in Maui.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buster Goode]

Maybe he just had to take a huge dump and he didn't know whether to wait until after the game to go or to leave the bench in favor of having an embarrassing accident.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer I remember BG's first recruiting class; Jimmie TM and company. Five freshmen. It was a game against Huggy Bear's Bearcats at UD arena. We were getting beaten by the more experienced Bearcats but the fans gave the freshmen and team a standing ovation in the closing minutes even though it was obvious they would lose....why because there wasn't a loose ball on the court that at least two flyers were on the floor fighting for the ball. That is why Dayton fans are considered "knowledgeable" fans. The one thing we will always appreciate is "EFFORT" even in losing.

I don't know, correct me if I am wrong, but some posters seem to be implying that BG's or OP's teams always hustled and gave 100% every game. That just isn't true, every team, no matter who is the coach, has games where they don't play as hard as they should.

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but this lack of hustle seemed to be happening more frequently in BG's last couple of years. But, it does seem that complaints about lack of hustle with Archie's guys are occurring more frequently on this board vs. when BG was the coach.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by ud2 I don't know, correct me if I am wrong, but some posters seem to be implying that BG's or OP's teams always hustled and gave 100% every game. That just isn't true, every team, no matter who is the coach, has games where they don't play as hard as they should. Again, correct me if I am wrong, but this lack of hustle seemed to be happening more frequently in BG's last couple of years.

I think you could say hustle and "disinterest" was an issue with BG's last team which has been well documented as having major chemistry issues. I don't recall hustle being much of an issue in any of his other years. A lack of scoring and offensive strategy was the problem. You could always count on them playing defense and rebounding.

[Mrossi]

This is too funny. FlyerGeorge and a few others actually have it right. NO MORE 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. 2005 we went 10-6 in conference. ITS BEEN 9 years since we've won 10 games in conference! If you want to accept last 9 years then you dont get it.

THE WHOLE GOAL IS TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS! We cant do that period with BG, AM or anyone lately. Our recruits and players are the problem along with the coaches. We need to focus on how Xavier, Butler, and others recruit and build programs. That comes from coaching.....

It starts from the top down and even the athletic department. Running ads showing us have 20 wins seasons isnt an accomplishment. Tournament appearances and conference appearances are.


****Sorry I mixed the year 2005 and 2009. Still the point is since 2005 we've only won 10 games in conference once*****

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDBrian]

Is there an issue with ud players not loving to play enough? Most guys who reach the college level like to play. But the guys who love to play and hate to lose put more effort into preparation and on the floor. They asked Larry Bird why he practiced as much as he did and he said it was because he feared failure.

I don't know if this is a possibility but maybe someone who knows the players might be able to give an opinion.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Yea but that was his first year as HC. JOB did the most in his first year taking the league championship and going to second week in the NCAA....but then...

My point was that JOB at least demonstrated he can coach given the right circumstances (Season 1), something that Archie has yet to do, even with the solid roster he had his first season.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by JimBo My point was that JOB at least demonstrated he can coach given the right circumstances (Season 1), something that Archie has yet to do, even with the solid roster he had his first season.

I have to disagree about JOB being able to do much of anything right.

First of all, give me a point gaurd named Negele Knight who is senior and does not want his career to end, and I can look like a heck of a coach down the stretch as well.

UD finished 22-10 in JOBS first season. Guess what, we take care of business in our two home games that remain, and we will have that same 22-10 record this season, heading into A-10 play.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by JimBo My point was that JOB at least demonstrated he can coach given the right circumstances (Season 1), something that Archie has yet to do, even with the solid roster he had his first season.

I was there for this and I don't think it was so much JOB showing he can coch as it was the 5 or 6 seniors (with one of those seniors being truly exceptional) deciding the last 10 or so games that they didn't want to lose any more. That same season UD was right around .500 when Negele hit a last second shot from the top of the key to win at Marquette. and, If I'm not mistaken, it was a year that also saw us lose to Wright State. The success was those upperclassmen (and one terrifically quick-handed freshman) deciding to turn it up. I am a believer that the players make a good team great. What was it someone stated above? it is up to the players executing. On Tuesday, I saw Player execution issues, from poor shot selection to over playing on defense, to continually falling for ball fakes to missed layups to missed passes to bad turnovers (enough with the traveling because you stutter step before making a move). I saw lineups I'm not sure I saw before in the game. I'm not putting that one game on Archie because i've seen plenty of cases where the team was prepared and outplayed and huslteld the other side to win. Maybe it was the short turnaround. Some other issue that has made us less efficient on offense. Do not underestimate how well St Joes played the other night either. possibly our worst game of the year vs a really good team's best game of the year is a recipe for the mess we saw. There are still 3 games plus the A10 to dwtermine if this team can find another gear and move up the A10 ladder so to speak. I'll judge Archie on the season in its entirety after we're done.

[Sea Bass]

Not sure Archie has ever had a solid roster. Maybe the first season but only prior to the Benson injury.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Yea but that was his first year as HC. JOB did the most in his first year taking the league championship and going to second week in the NCAA....but then...

Point of correction - JOB did NOT take the team to the 2nd week of the NCAA tournament. 2nd round, yes. But not the 2nd week. Could have been a typo or meant the 2nd round, but there's a huge difference.

Last time the Flyers played in the 2nd week of the tournament, guys were still wearing knee-high socks and nutt-hugging, polyester, high-rise shorts. Hard to believe, but it's been 30 years since we made it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament. And have won only two NCAA games (both 1st round games) in 30 years.

Even more depressing, our friends to the south have made 6 Sweet 16's and 2 Elite 8's in that time frame - including 5 of those appearances in the last decade.

Perhaps I'll feel better if I go back the era of the 50's and 60's.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan I have to disagree about JOB being able to do much of anything right. First of all, give me a point gaurd named Negele Knight who is senior and does not want his career to end, and I can look like a heck of a coach down the stretch as well. UD finished 22-10 in JOBS first season. Guess what, we take care of business in our two home games that remain, and we will have that same 22-10 record this season, heading into A-10 play.

So you're claiming that if you were coaching that same team back in 1990, you would have been just as successful?

Sorry, that just seems a bit egotistical. I'm not a JOB apologist in the least. He set the program back years during his time at UD. All I'm saying is that given the right circumstances, he could coach. He just didn't have the capabilities to build and sustain a program, big difference.

As far as your last comment, is there anything you have seen from this team during conference play that would suggest they are capable of that? The 1989-90 finished the season on a 10 game winning streak. This team just whimpered into the biggest game of the season and got their clock cleaned. Just don't see it.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER Point of correction - JOB did NOT take the team to the 2nd week of the NCAA tournament. 2nd round, yes. But not the 2nd week. Could have been a typo or meant the 2nd round, but there's a huge difference. Last time the Flyers played in the 2nd week of the tournament, guys were still wearing knee-high socks and nutt-hugging, polyester, high-rise shorts. Hard to believe, but it's been 30 years since we made it to the 2nd weekend of the tournament. And have won only two NCAA games (both 1st round games) in 30 years. Even more depressing, our friends to the south have made 6 Sweet 16's and 2 Elite 8's in that time frame - including 5 of those appearances in the last decade. Perhaps I'll feel better if I go back the era of the 50's and 60's.

I remember making a bet with a Xavier fan I know in about 05 or 06. I bet him that UD would make the final four before X did. I was that confident that BG was the guy who would take UD there. Maybe I'm just getting older (and more cynical) but I don't have nearly the confidence in AM at this point in his tenure as I did BG. Obviously, I got It wrong on BG...hopefully I'm wrong on AM as well.

I look at the roster for next yrs and have many, many concerns. I don't even have "wait until next year" in my back pocket like I have in the past.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mrossi This is too funny. FlyerGeorge and a few others actually have it right. NO MORE 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. 2005 we went 10-6 in conference. ITS BEEN 9 years since we've won 10 games in conference! If you want to accept last 9 years then you dont get it.

2009 was nine years ago??

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by springborofan I remember making a bet with a Xavier fan I know in about 05 or 06. I bet him that UD would make the final four before X did. I was that confident that BG was the guy who would take UD there. Maybe I'm just getting older (and more cynical) but I don't have nearly the confidence in AM at this point in his tenure as I did BG. Obviously, I got It wrong on BG...hopefully I'm wrong on AM as well. I look at the roster for next yrs and have many, many concerns. I don't even have "wait until next year" in my back pocket like I have in the past.

Next year is going to be scary. This is one year the "wait til next year" story will NOT pass the redface test.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Maybe he just had to take a huge dump and he didn't know whether to wait until after the game to go or to leave the bench in favor of having an embarrassing accident.

If I was on the bench for that disaster Wednesday night, I'd have probably $#!+ my britches at some point, too!

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by JimBo My point was that JOB at least demonstrated he can coach given the right circumstances (Season 1), something that Archie has yet to do, even with the solid roster he had his first season.

I wonder if Gonzaga, Cal, Baylor, Ole Mis, Georga Tech, etc would agree with that. For a coach who has yet to do that it is interesting that UD has been and with 2 of the next 3 would be in the bubble talk. Granted he hasn't set the world on fire but "something that Archie has yet to do" is a bit of a stretch.

Next 3 games define everything from coaches to the players as a team and individually. Loose all 3 and its a bust, win all 3 and we hit 10 for the first time in 9 years. Most likely its somewhere inbetween; either 9-7 or 8-8 again. Where were JOB, OP and BG in year three?

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by JimBo So you're claiming that if you were coaching that same team back in 1990, you would have been just as successful? Sorry, that just seems a bit egotistical. I'm not a JOB apologist in the least. He set the program back years during his time at UD. All I'm saying is that given the right circumstances, he could coach. He just didn't have the capabilities to build and sustain a program, big difference. As far as your last comment, is there anything you have seen from this team during conference play that would suggest they are capable of that? The 1989-90 finished the season on a 10 game winning streak. This team just whimpered into the biggest game of the season and got their clock cleaned. Just don't see it.

JOB could coach, he has demonstrated that in the NBA. Problem was two fold. He lacked the connections in the college ranks to develop a pipeline for recruits and he didn't have enough collegiate experience. Coaching in the pros is not the same as in college and he was too far removed.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by springborofan I remember making a bet with a Xavier fan I know in about 05 or 06. I bet him that UD would make the final four before X did. I was that confident that BG was the guy who would take UD there. Maybe I'm just getting older (and more cynical) but I don't have nearly the confidence in AM at this point in his tenure as I did BG. Obviously, I got It wrong on BG...hopefully I'm wrong on AM as well. I look at the roster for next yrs and have many, many concerns. I don't even have "wait until next year" in my back pocket like I have in the past.

I was huge supporter of BG. I really wanted him to be the answer. He had the pedigree but was way to stubborn. Speaking of reading lips (another post) I remember Billy Schmidt on the bench after talking to BG making the statement to the other assistants "..he won't listen.." That was BG and his undoing. Great ambassador for the U and great potential for a coach but....there are reasons you hire assistants.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Chris R]

The NCAA bubble is so soft this year, any team that doesn't get a bid doesn't have a leg to stand on to excuse their way out of it. Teams are puking on coat hangers left and right to make room for others that want to play themselves in.

If you cant wrap up an invitation this year, when can you.

[Avid Flyer]

Example of how soft even the top 25 is

Tonight's losses:

#22 OSU lost to a 500 ball club Penn State
#17 Kentucky loses to Arkansas at Ky.
#21 Memphis loses to 500 ball club Houston
#20 Iowa loses to Indiana

[bobber]

How far can a coach who does not teach defense take our program?

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer JOB could coach, he has demonstrated that in the NBA. Problem was two fold. He lacked the connections in the college ranks to develop a pipeline for recruits and he didn't have enough collegiate experience. Coaching in the pros is not the same as in college and he was too far removed.

JOB could coach if he had a team of all stars period. He could not teach or coach college kids unless they all world and they could be substituted like his mentor Petino. Boy could he carry a clipboard just ask Ricky.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Next 3 games define everything from coaches to the players as a team and individually. Loose all 3 and its a bust, win all 3 and we hit 10 for the first time in 9 years.

Why do people keep saying we haven't won 10 games in the A-10 for NINE years? Do they forget 2009 when we won 11 and won an NCAA game for the first time in almost 20 years??? (Just a pet peeve. Doesn't mean we have done well in the A-10.)

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer I wonder if Gonzaga, Cal, Baylor, Ole Mis, Georga Tech, etc would agree with that.

I bet St. Joseph's would. With all of the uncontested layups and three pointers they got, it was probably their easiest game since their exhibition against a DIII team.

Individual games do not make a season. NCAA tournament appearances do, and Archie has yet to do that, going back to my original point regarding JOB.

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Example of how soft even the top 25 is Tonight's losses: #22 OSU lost to a 500 ball club Penn State #17 Kentucky loses to Arkansas at Ky. #21 Memphis loses to 500 ball club Houston #20 Iowa loses to Indiana

This is a bit of a tangent, but the once mighty Temple Owls suffered their 20th loss of the season last night. The first time in school history. Also, Butler (just 3 years removed from the Final Four) is now 12-16 overall and 2-12 in conference.
I never bought into comparing UD to Butler, but I have wanted to have the success of Temple. If nothing else, UD is consistent.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UACFlyer]

Good coaching includes knowing what it takes to keep a team "fresh" in Feb/Mar...and even knowing it doesn't make it easy.

College BB started in October....it's now March. We're into the sixth month of the grind. Some teams just handle that better than others. I see the decline in UConn's play. They are playing "tired"...barely squeaking by lesser teams that they throttled two months ago.

Practice procedures are an important element of ensuring an energetic team in Feb/Mar...and players are all different. Some guys may be as fresh or more so in Feb/Mar than they were on Oct/Nov. But, I think that's an exception. By now the typical player is wearing down...and it's up to the coach to deal with that.

After a tough loss or a debacle like the SJU affair, a day off may be more beneficial than doubling down on practice intensity. I suspect that some coaches are a lot better than others at sensing the best approach. And I'm quite sure that experienced coaches are better at it than inexperienced coaches.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[dnutz77]

Originally Posted by JimBo I bet St. Joseph's would. With all of the uncontested layups and three pointers they got, it was probably their easiest game since their exhibition against a DIII team. Individual games do not make a season. NCAA tournament appearances do, and Archie has yet to do that, going back to my original point regarding JOB.

JimBo, I agree that individual games do not make a season. Why, then, does everyone go ape**** after UD loses a game? During the six game winning streak, folks were starting to make travel plans for the tournament. After the StJ loss, the fans were calling for AM's head and once again started whining about another lost season.....with 3 regular season games and the A-10 tourney still to be played! So which is it, individual games DO matter or individual games DON'T matter? I'm confused?

As for the NCAA, I agree 100% that it's all about MAKING THE DANCE. Archie has yet to do that, but he is only 2+ years in. Would you say that he's had the type of talent that JoB had in his first year?? Certainly not in Year 1 or Year 2.