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12-05-2015, 05:54 PM
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North Florida Results
The game seemed to be divided into three sections. In the first half, UD struggled on offense, missed layups and 3s and played poor defense especially behind the arc. North Florida played a nice motion offense and shot 3s lights out. UD struggled offensively against the North Florida zone. A close game at halftime.
A new UD team showed up after halftime. On offense, the ball went in low to Steve just a few feet away from the basket almost every time. He scored at will or kicked out of open easy 3s. The 3s then started to fall. North Florida was shut down by the UD defense and started to take bad shots. #2 had 15 points at halftime and he took very bad shots in the 2nd half. He made one meaningless 3 late in the game. He can shoot! He made some outstanding shots in the first half but was non existent in the 2nd half. North Florida uses excellent ball movement, but when their offense went south, they stalled big time.
After UD builds a huge lead, freshman start to play more and they had their usual challenges. Missed shots, some turnovers weak defense.
Steve McElevene made a huge difference in the game. He outplayed their post players, showed some excellent moves on the block, gobs of rebounds, blocked and effected shots. It is clear that Steve has nice offensive moves when gets low. In Orlando, experienced centers pushed him off the block and he played poorly. Steve showed good hands and variety of nice touches on his shots today. He will dominate weak centers, but will be schooled a few times this year but upper classmen big men.
Charles had a big game offensively. Scoochie was his usual self. I was surprised by the number of assists by Kendall.
Ball movement in the 2nd half was outstanding. When Steve scores down low and 3s drop, the team clicks. I wonder what the number of assists at halftime. Second half had oodles of assists.
Fouls were down from Orlando. Good. Turnovers were down. Good. Rebounds were up. Good.
The third section in the game occurred when most of the starters were out. It is clear that when 2 or more freshman are on the floor, defense is bad, turnovers are up and the team plays worse. I like all the playing time the freshman are getting as they need to learn and will get better. Of the 4 (not counting Steve), Williams had the best game. Crosby played well but had a dumb turnover. Mikesell played well on offense but very poorly on defense.
A good win. I am interested to see other observations.
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12-05-2015, 06:04 PM
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Steve was not playing against any quality big men today and he absolutely dominated the paint for most of the game. I went with a friend who had not seen UD play yet, and he was very impressed.
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12-05-2015, 07:10 PM
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Sam played two minutes. Two too many. He looks completely lost. Does not seem to have a post game, and not what we need on the perimeter. Appears helpless on D. Looks as if BW has displaced him in the sub rotation. Wonder what his future is? Maybe hoping that a couple of years will improve him, he's only a freshman.
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12-05-2015, 07:24 PM
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i'm sure if Steve had foul trouble we'd see Sam.
Frankly, if Pollard and Big Mac are doing well. And Pierre returns - we don't need Sam this year (very much). H e needs to work on creating some moves, more confidence and tighter handle on the ball.
And i'm hoping Arch is working to tighten his rotations in the next 5 games leading up to Conference play.
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12-05-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
i'm sure if Steve had foul trouble we'd see Sam.
And i'm hoping Arch is working to tighten his rotations in the next 5 games leading up to Conference play.
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I agree with your comments! Watching the zone today I was imagining Pierre on the floor at the FT line and what that opens up for the offense.
Todays rotation included Xeyrius early but not Mikesell or Sam. Minutes played were longer with Scoochie 33; Cooke 32; KP 31; Big Steve 28; KD 27; DD 17 and Xeyrius 16. Crosby had 7 and was ok with the zone and BW 3 and Sam 2 rounded it out.
Recap included two huge UD runs in the game; down 13 in first half then a 17-6 run to go ahead. 21-3 run to start 2nd half to put them away early. Overall a good win at home!
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12-05-2015, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Sam played two minutes. Two too many. He looks completely lost. Does not seem to have a post game, and not what we need on the perimeter. Appears helpless on D. Looks as if BW has displaced him in the sub rotation. Wonder what his future is? Maybe hoping that a couple of years will improve him, he's only a freshman.
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I think (hope?) Sam will be alright eventually. Last Sunday's game was a tough match up for him, with Gangsta Boy and Klinger for _. Today, it looked like Archie was trying to reassert Steve's importance in the grand scheme, and Steve responded extremely well (against admittedly overmatched bigs for UNF). But if Steve gets into foul trouble against teams with bigger bigs, I'd think Sam's number will get called, at least for a few weeks more.
As far as who's getting Sam's potential minutes, I think The X Factor is actually getting more of a look than Bobby at this point. And once A-10 play starts, with some of the 6'7" and 6'8" "bigs" that we'll see, that scenario has a chance to play out a few more times between now and March.
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12-05-2015, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Sam played two minutes. Two too many. He looks completely lost. Does not seem to have a post game, and not what we need on the perimeter. Appears helpless on D. Looks as if BW has displaced him in the sub rotation. Wonder what his future is? Maybe hoping that a couple of years will improve him, he's only a freshman.
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No too worries about Sam today. College basketball is a lot about matchups. Sam did not match up well with the North Florida post players. Sam matches up better against traditional centers, slow inside game etc. North Florida had post players who were super weak in the post but were good perimeter players and quick. Williams matched up better there and got more playing time. Steve stayed out of foul trouble and that limited Sam more.
Mikesell did not match up well either and his playing time was limited. Mikesell is a step slow on defense and it showed while he was in there.
Crosby is fast so he got a bit more playing time. The freshman who were faster and played better perimeter played more minutes.
Post players are always the hardest to develop in college. Sam has a bright future. Today was just not his number to be called. He will be OK.
Steve is much more advance than Sam, so he did a better job with perimeter defense and inside presence. A year of redshirt paid off for him today.
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12-05-2015, 10:43 PM
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Archie shortened the rotation today. IMO it is clear that if you can't play the kind of defense that is wanted your minutes are going to be limited. Crosby played a lot more than Mikesell and Miller. XW is not getting all those minutes for his offensive ability.
Kendall finally became more patient and quit forcing offense in the 2nd half. Hopefully he learned something.
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12-05-2015, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
...College basketball is a lot about matchups. Sam did not match up well with the North Florida post players. Sam matches up better against traditional centers, slow inside game etc. North Florida had post players who were super weak in the post but were good perimeter players and quick. Williams matched up better there and got more playing time. Steve stayed out of foul trouble and that limited Sam more...Sam has a bright future. Today was just not his number to be called...
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Checking out the Vandy roster and YTD stats, there's a good chance Sam's number will get called on Wednesday night. They have 3 guys in their core, 9-man rotation who are 7'0" or taller, are 230 lbs. or heavier, and Vandy plays over 10 minutes/game with 2 of 'em on the floor at the same time. Unless Steve can go 40 minutes (not likely), Sam should get a pretty good shot at some serious minutes on Wednesday.
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12-05-2015, 11:17 PM
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Not that these magazines know everything, but Lindy's lists Miller as the A-10's "No. 1 signing coup," stating that few would have been surprised if he had signed with an ACC program. I think it is a little early to be worrying about him.
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12-05-2015, 11:37 PM
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Immediately prior to the N FL game a UD MBB coach told a group ... UD would take advantage of their opponent by exposing the N FL defense ... with our big men.
Obviously job well done!!!
After the answer from the coach I asked ... "Don't we need to go smaller, to guard the N FL expert 3 point shooters ... beyond the arc?"
The UD MBB Coach replied .... "I expect Big Steve to be moving (and the other bigs) to guard the 3 and I trust AMs coaching on this point."
Obviously job well done!!! Big guys rule the day!!!!
Yes, Steve was awesome, but I thought X Williams looked like an upper classman. Solid play, not flashy, good minutes, learning his craft, not doing too much.
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12-06-2015, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle
Immediately prior to the N FL game a UD MBB coach told a group ... UD would take advantage of their opponent by exposing the N FL defense ... with our big men.
Obviously job well done!!!
After the answer from the coach I asked ... "Don't we need to go smaller, to guard the N FL expert 3 point shooters ... beyond the arc?"
The UD MBB Coach replied .... "I expect Big Steve to be moving (and the other bigs) to guard the 3 and I trust AMs coaching on this point."
Obviously job well done!!! Big guys rule the day!!!!
Yes, Steve was awesome, but I thought X Williams looked like an upper classman. Solid play, not flashy, good minutes, learning his craft, not doing too much.
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Regarding X Williams, it is quite obvious that the coaching staff loves this young man, as evidenced by the minutes he is getting. These aren't "mop-up" minutes; he has gotten critical minutes in close games. He has most impressed me with his defense. He has been effective at sealing the passing lanes to the 4/5 players, resulting in numerous steals and ball-slaps. Once he gets stronger, and he will in this program, then he becomes a prototype power forward.
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12-06-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Archie shortened the rotation today. IMO it is clear that if you can't play the kind of defense that is wanted your minutes are going to be limited. Crosby played a lot more than Mikesell and Miller. XW is not getting all those minutes for his offensive ability.
Kendall finally became more patient and quit forcing offense in the 2nd half. Hopefully he learned something.
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I think the shortened rotation was preparation for Vandy. After that, there will be more opportunities for playing the freshman before the conference games start.
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12-06-2015, 09:56 AM
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Simmons had 43 points (15-20), 17 rebounds, seven assists, five steals and three blocks in 37 minutes against North Florida
Steve with 14 pts (7-8), 16 boards, 2 assists, no steals and 4 blocks in 28 minutes.
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12-06-2015, 10:35 AM
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Some 6'8" guys play a bit short. Maybe combination of lack of lift and reach. XW plays looooong.
He is a great defensive presence and plays mature. Nice.
Sam's best years are ahead of him. By mid-year we should know more. Could be a total learning year for him. He could be our Waleskowski, and didn't Keith redshirt? Not suggesting that, but right now D1 is blur for him.
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12-06-2015, 10:48 AM
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I agree that Z is getting his minutes similar to how cream rises to the top over time. Where I thought that his lean body would need development he has used it to a speed and slithering advantage to get open. He is not frail at all. May be the best freshman by the end of the year.
I think Archie sat both Mikesell and Miller to rest them for Vandy as much as he did for defensive reasoning. Vandy will lean on us.
I think the UNF defense took us a little by surprise in the early going. 35 was pushing and shoving even in between all 5 fouls he committed.
I remember in the First Four last year how Beau Beech was lighting it up vs R. Morris, and that's all I remembered about their team. Their popularity centered around the pep band kid in the rugby shirt that went flipping nuts in front of the cameras. We sat right adjacent to him last year. A safe distance from flying spit and sweat
I think both KP and CC have too much confidence in their ability to get to the basket in traffic. Neither looks to pass once they get into the lane. Offensive fouls are just waiting to happen. Not saying we should be less aggressive, I think we could share it and be less predictable in that regard.
I expected Steve to dominate their bigs just because of their shooting style and size. He reminded me of his earlier shot-altering ability on drivers into the lane. Looked to get more into it as the game went on and that paralleled 35's race to fouling out.
Normally I stay in my seat for the halftime show but donut gorging just didn't appeal to my art-loving side, so I ran around the building ..twice..
Cooke seems to have a disposition and playing style that, let's say, tends to draw aggressive play from the other team. I expect that to be apparent in league play mostly.
Hopefully we find some unified direction by Pierre coming back. We don't seem to have any leadership and I don't know if it is a power struggle but it could be. Seems like a shift of some sort taking place because there has been little improvement in the ball movement and the passing is not there yet.
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12-06-2015, 10:59 AM
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Not a fair comparison
Originally Posted by jack72
Simmons had 43 points (15-20), 17 rebounds, seven assists, five steals and three blocks in 37 minutes against North Florida
Steve with 14 pts (7-8), 16 boards, 2 assists, no steals and 4 blocks in 28 minutes.
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Simmons will be a one and done. But that LSU game was a track meet where a playground hoops game broke out. 71 points in a half. Pete Marovich would be proud. LSU people think he is the next Labron.
In the LSU 12 point loss to College of Charleston, Simmons was 4-15 shooting, and 7 turnovers. Just sayin'.
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12-06-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
I agree that Z is getting his minutes similar to how cream rises to the top over time. Where I thought that his lean body would need development he has used it to a speed and slithering advantage to get open. He is not frail at all. May be the best freshman by the end of the year.
I think Archie sat both Mikesell and Miller to rest them for Vandy as much as he did for defensive reasoning. Vandy will lean on us.
I think the UNF defense took us a little by surprise in the early going. 35 was pushing and shoving even in between all 5 fouls he committed.
I remember in the First Four last year how Beau Beech was lighting it up vs R. Morris, and that's all I remembered about their team. Their popularity centered around the pep band kid in the rugby shirt that went flipping nuts in front of the cameras. We sat right adjacent to him last year. A safe distance from flying spit and sweat
I think both KP and CC have too much confidence in their ability to get to the basket in traffic. Neither looks to pass once they get into the lane. Offensive fouls are just waiting to happen. Not saying we should be less aggressive, I think we could share it and be less predictable in that regard.
I expected Steve to dominate their bigs just because of their shooting style and size. He reminded me of his earlier shot-altering ability on drivers into the lane. Looked to get more into it as the game went on and that paralleled 35's race to fouling out.
Normally I stay in my seat for the halftime show but donut gorging just didn't appeal to my art-loving side, so I ran around the building ..twice..
Cooke seems to have a disposition and playing style that, let's say, tends to draw aggressive play from the other team. I expect that to be apparent in league play mostly.
Hopefully we find some unified direction by Pierre coming back. We don't seem to have any leadership and I don't know if it is a power struggle but it could be. Seems like a shift of some sort taking place because there has been little improvement in the ball movement and the passing is not there yet.
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I don't really agree with much of this post. Freshmen are not resting to get ready to play on the road against a top-15 opponent. They are sitting because they make too many mistakes, and the other guys are better right now. Sam Miller will be a good player for us, but he needs to play sharper.
Pollard set a career high in assists yesterday with 8. Cooke had 5 assists. Both of them drew fouls taking the ball hard to the rim. 13 assists and 14 free throw attempts between the two of them (Cooke shot the 2 technical FTs as part of his 8/12 at the line). That's pretty darn good!
I thought our ball movement in the first half was good, and our ball movement in the second half was great. Lot of sharing, lot of whipping the ball around to reverse the court and make the defense move, lot of passing up good shots for great ones. Steve makes such a big difference in our spacing. We can dump it in to him and he's good at keeping his head up, faking or making a pass out of the post. He had a very nice look to Baby D for his first 3 in the first half.
As far as leadership, it's Scoochie and Kyle with Cooke and Pollard helping as well. Here's a brief example of leadership: first half, around the 9 minute mark. Scoochie drives in for a layup, misses, stumbles to the floor after getting a little tangled up as he landed. He scrambles to his feet, busts his butt down the court, and is able to get a swipe at the ball, knocking it off the N Fl player's knee as he's trying to gather for a layup at the other end. That's leadership.
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12-06-2015, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Simmons will be a one and done. But that LSU game was a track meet where a playground hoops game broke out. 71 points in a half. Pete Marovich would be proud. LSU people think he is the next Labron.
In the LSU 12 point loss to College of Charleston, Simmons was 4-15 shooting, and 7 turnovers. Just sayin'.
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I want to see what Simmons can do against good competition
N. FL is the only team with a winning record they've beaten (their 4 wins are 12-22 so far)
Maybe he will be the next LaBron but that alone won't get them a post season bid
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12-06-2015, 11:22 AM
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Fair enough THirt. I was speaking more to the potential for fouls going forward from KP and CC but I should've recognized the performance yesterday. I think Mikesell is a liability defensively. Almost wrote that as being the point, I don't think he's used to the speed as evidenced by his lack of positioning on D. But I do think they were sitting because of the game that looms, partly. If I'm right they will get significantly more minutes. Logical reasoning against a more stellar opponent. No?
That is leading by example, yes. But we aren't getting into our offense at the perimeter like we're used to. That is leadership by delegation. My post was more a preempt for Vandy rather than an inflated appraisal against a sub-par team.
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12-06-2015, 11:27 AM
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I found it interesting on the broadcast yesterday that they stated that UD is building towards next year because this year's roster "does not have a senior getting significant playing time".
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12-06-2015, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Fair enough THirt. I was speaking more to the potential for fouls going forward from KP and CC but I should've recognized the performance yesterday. I think Mikesell is a liability defensively. Almost wrote that as being the point, I don't think he's used to the speed as evidenced by his lack of positioning on D. But I do think they were sitting because of the game that looms, partly. If I'm right they will get significantly more minutes. Logical reasoning against a more stellar opponent. No?
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You don't need to rest 18 yr olds. They didn't play because: A) match ups B) bad practices this week, C) not as good as the other players right now D) all of the above. IMHO AM plays these games 1 game at a time and we didn't witness some master stroke of genius that "saved Mikesell and Miller's legs so they will be able to hit 3's next Wednesday".
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12-06-2015, 11:57 AM
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I mean they sat mostly to get ready for Vandy. [Could be wrong] Mentally and physically. They are freshmen. Didn't mean to imply they were physically tired. I think we're on the same page, just different expressions. I made the allusion to their not playing great on defense before I rendered another point of view.
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12-06-2015, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by LIBob
I found it interesting on the broadcast yesterday that they stated that UD is building towards next year because this year's roster "does not have a senior getting significant playing time".
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They are correct. This years sweet 16 is building toward next years Final 4.
Back to my Red and Blue Kool-aid!
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12-06-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
They are correct. This years sweet 16 is building toward next years Final 4.
Back to my Red and Blue Kool-aid!
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You mean your Red and Blue Kool-aid does not include a senior getting significant playing time in 2 weeks?
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12-06-2015, 01:33 PM
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We had enough Steve , Cooke, Pollard and HORSES SATURDAY.
That Mikesell and Sam weren't needed. Purposeful or not, we will need both Wednesday -for either rest, fouls to give (Sam) and shooting.
Gonna need to go 10 deep most likely
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12-06-2015, 01:37 PM
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Does anyone know what CC was upset about during the N. FL game? Was it about leadership? Was he just talking smack? Was he pointing stuff out to the refs? I saw Big Steve give CC the "zip it up" move ... finger move along the lips. So I'm assuming CC was venting vs leadership talk.
I'm all about standing your ground with some talk. I saw some chump play by _axier in Orlando ... that caused some players discussion.
I didn't see any chump play by N. FL.
One memory about true team and leadership was Scoochie in Orlando. Late in the X game he went to the line ... he was concentrating on his free throw ... and yelled out "who do I got" ... for defense after his free throw shot ... he couldn't look around to see who was in the game since there were players going out and subs coming in ... I love it when you count on your team and they count on you. The more you (the leader) talk the more the team talks.
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12-06-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle
Does anyone know what CC was upset about during the N. FL game? Was it about leadership? Was he just talking smack? Was he pointing stuff out to the refs? I saw Big Steve give CC the "zip it up" move ... finger move along the lips. So I'm assuming CC was venting vs leadership talk.
I'm all about standing your ground with some talk. I saw some chump play by _axier in Orlando ... that caused some players discussion.
I didn't see any chump play by N. FL.
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There were three times at the N. Fla end of the floor after a made basket that they "tangled" with our players. Most obvious was the one with Cooke in front of there bench headed to the TO. I thought Beech pushed him first before Davenport off the bench. Earlier KD got tossed to the floor underneath their basket after a made three right in front of the ref and he glared and yelled at the ref several trips down the floor. Finally Scoochie entangled arms after a made FT and neither player was willing too backdown or "unhook" til the ref stepped in. Fustration on N. Fla's part and leadership by our three guys.
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12-06-2015, 02:00 PM
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I wasn't able to watch yesterday's game, but I've noticed Cooke does talk a lot of junk on the court to opposing players.
Scoochie and KD are the leaders of this team. During the beat down in Orlando, when UD was down 30 or so in the 2nd half, I believe Miller was going to the line to shoot FT's. When his name was announced, nobody on the bench was clapping for him. Scooch was on the floor and started to clap and turned to the bench to get them going. He then pointed to the clock on the scoreboard and told the team the game isn't over yet and we're not giving up. That is leadership.
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86
We had enough Steve , Cooke, Pollard and HORSES SATURDAY.
That Mikesell and Sam weren't needed. Purposeful or not, we will need both Wednesday -for either rest, fouls to give (Sam) and shooting.
Gonna need to go 10 deep most likely
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They were talking on the radio broadcast that Sam had a rough week and was beat down(by AM I'm assuming) during practice. Apparently AM was not happy about a lot of things with him in the orlando final and his practices. Either that or he thinks that Sam is ready to be pushed to the next step and it's tough love.
This might be AM's process with Freshman, baby them until we get back from holiday tournament and then turn up the heat. Make them sit for most of a game we should have in hand and soak it up.
To see who's high and low on the freshman totem pole with AM, you probably just look at who plays and who sits in our first game of season(cupcake game) and assume that those that come off the bench for lots of minutes are the ones who are the deepest on the bench. Hence RM, Sam M, JC getting pretty good minutes in that game and XW not. Seems since that game, XW is getting the minutes.
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I said have said it a handful of times and unfortunately it is surfacing...Sam looks as if he needs a swift kick in the A. Looks like he is just going through the motions and with what Smitty is advising, he may be doing the same in practice. He doesn't appear to play with any urgency, and until I see differently, my opinion will remain the same. I held off initially, because having not watched him until this season, no one knew what he looked like when he played on the floor...but it is becoming evident.
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12-06-2015, 03:20 PM
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Sam Miller
is a typical Freshman who cannot play defense. In High School it was not necessary. But he is an extraordinarily talented offensive player with advanced offensive skills. Former NBA coach and analyst Jeff Van Gundy raved about him against Alabama. When Sam and Archie find his mode of contribution to True Team he will be a force. It is just a matter of time and maybe a few pounds dropped. Remember the days when the Dayton program was not as developed as the current edition and the coach (JO) was forced to start a Freshman Chip Hare who shot treys and could not defend the post. We are fortunate as a program to have the luxury of his Freshman year as a learning experience at the major college level.
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12-06-2015, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityengr
There were three times at the N. Fla end of the floor after a made basket that they "tangled" with our players. Most obvious was the one with Cooke in front of there bench headed to the TO. I thought Beech pushed him first before Davenport off the bench.
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I believe this is the play where a double technical was called on Cooke and a North Florida guy - not sure which one. The officials studied the monitor and discussed the play for quite awhile before making the call. Cooke probably got the "T" for retaliation. I don't think he initiated it.
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12-06-2015, 05:43 PM
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Didn't see what provoked Cooke walking to their huddle near their bench, but the player most likely to attract it was #35. Believe he was their designated henchman for the game. The tie-up with Scooch resulted in a dead ball no-call. Just some talking to by the ref.
I think he got a piece of everybody it appeared from my vantage point.
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12-06-2015, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I said have said it a handful of times and unfortunately it is surfacing...Sam looks as if he needs a swift kick in the A. Looks like he is just going through the motions and with what Smitty is advising, he may be doing the same in practice. He doesn't appear to play with any urgency, and until I see differently, my opinion will remain the same. I held off initially, because having not watched him until this season, no one knew what he looked like when he played on the floor...but it is becoming evident.
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Not typically critical of our players! I know they are all Flyers------and I'm a huge Flyer fan!
If you have any questions about PT------re watch the tape of the Xavier game, trips up and down the court, efforts on defense, late and early in the game, etc. There in lies the answer to at least some of the questions!
Not sure what the players did/didn't do in practice this week! Not meant to be any commentary on RM.
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12-06-2015, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonycharles
I wasn't able to watch yesterday's game, but I've noticed Cooke does talk a lot of junk on the court to opposing players.
Scoochie and KD are the leaders of this team. During the beat down in Orlando, when UD was down 30 or so in the 2nd half, I believe Miller was going to the line to shoot FT's. When his name was announced, nobody on the bench was clapping for him. Scooch was on the floor and started to clap and turned to the bench to get them going. He then pointed to the clock on the scoreboard and told the team the game isn't over yet and we're not giving up. That is leadership.
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Very true. In my post I could have used a better word when i said lack of 'leadership' because what I meant was organization. I've tooted Scooch's horn from the get-go this season and know he's a leader..Never doubted his or didn't mean to.
I'm speculating more about the roles and fit between CC and KP. And how we miss DP's passing in there so we can work the ball inside out. We miss that aspect most in the offensive flow.
Y extended their defense and we couldn't find the open man because no one could pass over it without a t/o. It seems we are struggling with getting a man open with the extra pass. It has happened just not often.
I believe the return of DP is most significant because of that inside-out passing proficiency that we lack so far. I like how we run the read-option with him deciding whether to drive or dish. If Scoochie is our JT Barrett then Pierre is our Zeke Elliott.
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan
Not typically critical of our players! I know they are all Flyers------and I'm a huge Flyer fan!
If you have any questions about PT------re watch the tape of the Xavier game, trips up and down the court, efforts on defense, late and early in the game, etc. There in lies the answer to at least some of the questions!
Not sure what the players did/didn't do in practice this week! Not meant to be any commentary on RM.
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I think that this team is fairly equal off the bench...or at least they were all equal a few weeks ago and what it done in practice and games is going to separate them quickly...with the importance on what they do in practice, attitude, effort, and response to criticism from coaches.
XW...I said he looked lost a few games ago and that he is going to be a totally different player after January 1. I believe he is going to hit that January 1 mark with extensive playing time in front of the others.
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12-06-2015, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan
Not typically critical of our players! I know they are all Flyers------and I'm a huge Flyer fan!
If you have any questions about PT------re watch the tape of the Xavier game, trips up and down the court, efforts on defense, late and early in the game, etc. There in lies the answer to at least some of the questions!
Not sure what the players did/didn't do in practice this week! Not meant to be any commentary on RM.
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You guys are convincing. I didnt hear the broadcast talking about him being in the doghouse. Hopefully the carrot and stick treatment works.
Trouble I have is he's our b/u at the 5, so unless Pollard, XW, and Wehrli share that role he have will play a lot at Vandy. And a lot going forward. Archie has a lot invested in him.
I'll be watching for a pickup in his get-up, inspired by his recent pine time ;D Hope the kid toughens up because we don't have a substitute for his size inside.
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12-07-2015, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
I think Archie sat both Mikesell and Miller to rest them for Vandy as much as he did for defensive reasoning. Vandy will lean on us.
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So, given this thought, Archie is saying, "chill out fellas, we'll handle UNF w/out you, take another 4 days off and get ready for Vandy, cause they're real good. Never mind that neither of you have shown the ability to guard a lamp post...we know you can handle the #14 team on the road!"
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We may be reading too much into Miller playing little. North Florida was a very quick team with no real center. This was not Miller's or Mikesell's kind of opportunity. Both looked terrible on defense when they did get in. I doubt it was due to lack of effort.
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12-07-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar
So, given this thought, Archie is saying, "chill out fellas, we'll handle UNF w/out you, take another 4 days off and get ready for Vandy, cause they're real good. Never mind that neither of you have shown the ability to guard a lamp post...we know you can handle the #14 team on the road!"
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So in turn you are implying they won't play against the #14 team, if they were sat for being lamp posts against the #100 team? No, because common sense tells me you don't meant that. I admit my statement was vague.
I said 'rest' then followed up by saying "Vandy will lean on us" I didn't mean to imply it was because of fatigue. But a lead-in that they are a big low-post team that will have that ability.
...Coaches sit, or rest players for several reasons, mostly mental I think. Should've just said...sit. I think, and I may be wrong, with what I have to go on that they were both benched to send a message.
....A coaching moment to make them realize how cold and lonely it is on the pine. Make your minutes count on D or find yourself back here, would be a well-used device.
Whatever motive, the fact that they've not played sound defense was pretty evident heading into that game.
I didn't jump to the mic to proclaim Mikesell's and Miller's demise because they didn't see any minutes until late against UNF, because I think both play a lot at Vandy.
Not to make any more excuses but It's a process with freshmen to make them see this game has changed from the one they used to play in high school. Especially on defense. It will wear them down mentally and physically over the season.
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Two quotes from Archie in a DDN article entitled "Minutes hard to come by for Dayton Freshmen":
“We lost by 30 points at Xavier,” said Miller, rounding up from a 90-61 loss. “There were some alarming things in that game as far as the toughness that was required. As we move through this, guys are going to keep working their way back in. Everybody is going to be needed at all times, but today’s cover from a defensive perspective, it was really important that we had guys ready and locked in and able to guard. Our young guys are going to play and keep getting better. It’s early December. You can’t just be freelancing with lineups on the floor that aren’t going to do well for long stretches.”
"I think John has to keep getting better,” Miller said. “Ryan and Sam didn’t play as much today. That’s one of those things they have to look at defensive improvement and being ready to go on that end.”
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Originally Posted by jack72
We may be reading too much into Miller playing little. North Florida was a very quick team with no real center.
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Big Steve was dominating so he earned all 28 minutes he got obviously. So we're only talking about the division of 12 minutes...
Anyway, Vandy has not one, not two, but three 7-footers on their roster.
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12-07-2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Big Steve was dominating so he earned all 28 minutes he got obviously. So we're only talking about the division of 12 minutes...
Anyway, Vandy has not one, not two, but three 7-footers on their roster.
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From a young big's perspective, especially with Miller's previous role as a SF, I can imagine anything added on top of the funk he is in, guarding the low post, could cause to get him in an even bigger funk.
Same with an offensive tackle in football. It's one thing to handle a bull rush from a 6'6 300 lb. end. But it is completely different handling that same style from a smaller, faster player. Ask Taylor Decker if he's looking forward to facing Kalil Mack again in the pro's.
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12-07-2015, 01:52 PM
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I don't know Flyer5, I still think you are missing the point to a certain extent. You interpreted what was posted as AM was sending a message to Miller and Mikesell. As if, once they learn their lesson, they'll start getting the type of minutes they enjoyed early in the season.
I don't think he was sending a message, nor is he punishing anyone. I think he is playing the players that give him the best chance to win. The two may practice better this week and still not play. And, that also doesn't mean anyone is in the doghouse, is ripe to transfer, or a wasted scholly. It just means, as Freshmen, they are not ready for very good competition when the game is in doubt.
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12-07-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
I don't know Flyer5, I still think you are missing the point to a certain extent. You interpreted what was posted as AM was sending a message to Miller and Mikesell. As if, once they learn their lesson, they'll start getting the type of minutes they enjoyed early in the season.
I don't think he was sending a message, nor is he punishing anyone. I think he is playing the players that give him the best chance to win. The two may practice better this week and still not play. And, that also doesn't mean anyone is in the doghouse, is ripe to transfer, or a wasted scholly. It just means, as Freshmen, they are not ready for very good competition when the game is in doubt.
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I'm not missing the point. I think he was sending a message, for doggone sure. And you're right about not knowing. Let's not keep on arguing about what is pure speculation. All we know for sure is they sat and Archie made a comment afterward alluding to the reason being defensive lapses by both. Not a matchup problem.
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12-07-2015, 04:29 PM
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All I know is the newbies have until Dec 22 to get much better on defense, at which time there will be 30 less available minutes to compete for. And then 10 days after that the A10 starts and there will only be table scraps.
If it was me, I would "turn up the gain" NOW, and never rest for a second in a practice or a game from this day on.
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12-07-2015, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
All I know is the newbies have until Dec 22 to get much better on defense, at which time there will be 30 less available minutes to compete for. And then 10 days after that the A10 starts and there will only be table scraps.
If it was me, I would "turn up the gain" NOW, and never rest for a second in a practice or a game from this day on.
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This is why I think it was more a coaching moment. Why on earth would you sit two key freshmen in between two huge games? Unless it was a coaching moment. They have been getting minutes all along so to pull the plug during a game we're expected to roll because it's a matchup problem is missing a big opportunity to coach them and to get them experience. Makes more sense that they were sitting in order to absorb a point. Or message.
Btw, the Anthem singer sang "... at the dawn's early light". Anybody catch that?
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12-07-2015, 04:56 PM
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Arch said today..they need to play better defense and he didn't like the matchup having to guard them on the 3 point line. Just not ready. Ryan could really help if he sharpens his defense. he has a good offensive game.
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Don't read too much into limited playing time other than freshman need to play better at the new level. Remember Kendall Pollard barely got off the bench his freshman year until February March.
The freshman all played poorly in Orlando. North Florida was a trap game and way too close at halftime. In the second half, the freshman began to give the up the lead (albeit a large one) and Archie called time out and but the starters back in.
The freshman in some cases did not match up well. Sam in particular did not match up with the quicker North Florida post players. Xeyrius match better because he is quicker.
I am glad the freshman are getting playing time, but the college game is a bit of a challenge to them. They will probably play even less minutes when A10 play starts. Let's see what their playing time is like towards season's end.
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Sam was a shooting forward in high school so matching up on the perimeter should be closer to his body of work than subbing out the starting center. I don't see that matchup problem. I see potential for his play being an enigma by not getting him on the outside where HE creates the mismatch in our favor. That was, and remains his biggest value as a prospect. He's not a 5. There's your m/u problem.
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12-07-2015, 06:31 PM
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Steve's long arm looks like a catapult from the Renaissance era when he swats a shot attempt. On one Saturday I thought he was going to swat it out on Edwin Moses Blvd, but the player fumbled the ball or something. I haven't seen a replay. I was just fixated on that big hand coming over the top and was anticipating a hand/ball collision of monstrous proportion ..
But the UNF player was spared that pure embarrassment.
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Sam was a shooting forward in high school so matching up on the perimeter should be closer to his body of work than subbing out the starting center. I don't see that matchup problem. I see potential for his play being an enigma by not getting him on the outside where HE creates the mismatch in our favor. That was, and remains his biggest value as a prospect. He's not a 5. There's your m/u problem.
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I saw Sam play several times last year including the DC city championship game against DeMatha. He was fantastic shooting from the outside and driving to the hoop. I never saw him playing with his back to the basket so I think this is all new to him this year.
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12-07-2015, 10:47 PM
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Steve's double-double against UNF earns him A10 Rookie of the Week. Cooke honorable mention.
http://www.atlantic10.com/ViewArticl...CLID=210566991
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Originally Posted by Sid Louick
I saw Sam play several times last year including the DC city championship game against DeMatha. He was fantastic shooting from the outside and driving to the hoop. I never saw him playing with his back to the basket so I think this is all new to him this year.
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So far this year, Sam has been too slow to guard perimeter players. He has not handled agile power forwards well yet. In practice he matches up against Steve and is overwhelmed.
He will develop.
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Btw, the Anthem singer sang "... at the dawn's early light". Anybody catch that?
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No, I didn't. I sing along so don't really hear the singer. And my vocals are horrible. if only another 12,000 would join in......
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
So far this year, Sam has been too slow to guard perimeter players. He has not handled agile power forwards well yet. In practice he matches up against Steve and is overwhelmed.
He will develop.
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Agree wholeheartedly that he is not built to guard a fleet wing, but it seemed to me against this competition that his outside-in strength could've pulled their post guys out to guard him.
We have a couple drivers to drive that lane....if it's not clogged. He seems more a fish out of water when he's confined to the paint] And I know it will get better and fluidity will be more apparent than the semi-mechanical movement that he displays in the post now.
It seems to me he's wrestling with his 215 lb inner-self while his 240 lb frame is screaming to let it go, Archie knows best
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