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Old 12-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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Wagner Thoughts

Great first half. Wagner was bad and we owned them to the tune of a 20+ point lead at halftime. But, as I said the other day, you don't win in 20 minutes.

DD started off as hot as you possibly can. Think he scored the first 11 or so. Flyers on a huge run, moving the ball around, getting penetration, using Josh down low. Kind of what you would expect to see in every game. Crosby was under control and moving the ball around.

Second half was a bit a reversion to the mean. Let a big lead get all the way down to 6 late in second half. DD fouls out. Bad fouls, bad turnovers, and sorry Rollo, but a bit of bad officiating in a stretch all contributed to Wagner making a run. That appeared to be a phantom foul on Kostas on the rebound and then another bad call I think on Jordan Davis on the steal attempt.

Crosby shot poorly and still made a couple bone-headed drives, but he was ice at the line an did have some nice dishes. Flyers had a lot of dunks today.

Trey played better today. Too small to finish well down low many times but can't fault his hustle. Seems to have pretty decent court awareness. Put 3-4 inches on him and he would kill it.

Crutcher played okay, but his shooting, especially his 3pt shots, are not good. He shoots from his chest or face area rather than having the ball up high. More of a push shot. He needs a lot of work on it. 4 assists to 1 TO.

X played decent. Made one three

J Davis played okay. Shot looked either really good or really bad. Had a two steals.

Cunningham would have scored more if he had gotten the ball more. Did a lot with what he had. Only 4 or 5 rebounds though.

Svoboda did nothing worth mentioning.

Kostas with a nice dunk, but needs to do more.

Flyers played almost all man to man D. That was good to see. In first half especially, they seemed to switch well. Got killed on boards again though, especially in second half. Gave up way too many additional points when they didn't control the rebound.

Overall, a good effort. Wagner will probably do well in their conference. On to Duquesne on the road. Dukes have won 7 straight.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:04 PM
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2nd half was hard to watch. Low energy, sloppy play, careless turnovers. No idea when and who will sub in. Same mistakes, and the usual two minute loss of composure.

Then we decide to play zone, and they light it up. Deja vu all over again..
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:19 PM
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If only Williams and Landers could swap their heights.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
2nd half was hard to watch. Low energy, sloppy play, careless turnovers. No idea when and who will sub in. Same mistakes, and the usual two minute loss of composure.

Then we decide to play zone, and they light it up. Deja vu all over again..
Which makes it hard for players to know what is expected of them and to be ready to play. It also prevents them from getting into the flow of the game.

I realize somebody is going to respond with well they should be ready to play all of the time anyway, but think about when you perform better at your job. When you know you have a presentation at 9am a week before or when your boss calls you at 8:30 and tells you about it.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:43 PM
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I do wish we would ease up on the brain f*rts:
Couldn't in bound a ball in 5 seconds.
Crosby and Josh handed Wagner 2 points under their basket with sloppy play.
One turnover by Josh was because he picked up his dribble in the corner and our guards did not go to his rescue.
Got our pocket picked again by dribbling too much and gave them 2 points.

On the plus side:
The two ally-oops were text book, and another drew a shooting foul.
Really good free throw shooting.
Good to see Xeyrius perk up a little.
Our intensity defending picks seemed a bit better.

The first half was a perfect storm for UD. Knocking down threes and Wagner was horrid.


On to Duquesne.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:29 PM
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So what’s up with Svoboda? He seems to be less and less of a factor the more games we play. For me, he is the biggest disappointment so far this year. I actually thought he was the freshman most ready to step in and contribute on day one. He looks lost out there with no particular strong attributes on either offense or defense.

I hope he comes around soon. We need all hands on deck.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
If only Williams and Landers could swap their heights.
I really don't understand how you're always in Crosby's corner but you discount how XW played last season while fully healthy. Really, I don't understand your reasoning.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:11 PM
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Missed being at the game but appreciated hearing the commentator spend some time talking about the UD Hey Day. Also enjoyed his knowledge of the area and its importance to funk music. I met all the Ohio Players in the day. Loved George Clinton and Funkadelic and Bootsie Collins too.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Bad fouls, bad turnovers, and sorry Rollo, but a bit of bad officiating in a stretch all contributed to Wagner making a run. That appeared to be a phantom foul on Kostas on the rebound and then another bad call I think on Jordan Davis on the steal attempt.

It seemed like most of the bad calls happened right after Dayton pushed their lead back into the 20a. As soon as it got close again, the officiating seemed to get better. How does slapping at the ball become a jump? When did the top of the backboard become inbounds? Or is there some obscure rule that the average fan couldn't decipher saying in some strange situation the top of the backboard is still inbounds?
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:03 PM
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17 turnovers.
28 total rebounds concern me.

On positive side, lights out FT shooting.
Good shooting %

2nd half worrisome
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:38 PM
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this team will gel. predict 10-8

Last edited by mikeymo85; 12-26-2017 at 02:32 PM..
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeymo85 View Post
this team will gel. predict 10-6
I will bet you any amount of money this team will not finish 10-6 in the conference, or 11-5, or 9-7, or 8-8.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
When did the top of the backboard become inbounds? Or is there some obscure rule that the average fan couldn't decipher saying in some strange situation the top of the backboard is still inbounds?
The top, bottom, and sides of the backboard have always been in play. It is only the back of the board or any supports that are out of play. The ball also may not pass over the backboard in any direction. That rule has been in effect for many years.

However, back in 1982, it was legal for the ball to go over the backboard. Dwight Anderson from Dayton hit the most amazing shot I have ever seen when he was playing for USC. It counted at the time but would not today.

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Old 12-24-2017, 01:02 AM
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Dwight Anderson was a stud. And so was Frankie Sanders from Stivers. Saw them both as high school players.
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I will bet you any amount of money this team will not finish 10-6 in the conference, or 11-5, or 9-7, or 8-8.
I wouldn't bet any amount against 8 wins but it is highly unlikely given what we already know. I'd say 6 wins in conference will be as good as we can get. And more likely 5 wins is what we'll get. But what do I know..
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:24 AM
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Stat of the night...that led to the disappearing act and the disappearing lead...

UD got out rebounded by a team of midgets...

Sure...rebounding had nothing to do with beating a simple press...or Crosby's turnovers...but it was about being aggressive. Trey comes back in the game and the simple task of being aggressive and not taking **** from anyone is what they needed.

Not too sure about the press break at this time...AG has the post in the center of the court as the screener and rolls back to get the ball if the PG isn't free. He then can pass to his right to the 2 guard. Guess it has it's place, but the post handling the ball a 1/4 mile from the basket didn't seem to be the most desirable option considering they had issues with the first pass trap or the trap across half court.

League play is going to be long if they don't start putting their foot on teams necks when they have the opportunity.

The real games start now. Time to wake up or .500 is on the front porch.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I will bet you any amount of money this team will not finish 10-6 in the conference, or 11-5, or 9-7, or 8-8.
So what is your prediction?
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
So what is your prediction?
Something that includes 18 games....
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
The top, bottom, and sides of the backboard have always been in play. It is only the back of the board or any supports that are out of play. The ball also may not pass over the backboard in any direction. That rule has been in effect for many years.

However, back in 1982, it was legal for the ball to go over the backboard. Dwight Anderson from Dayton hit the most amazing shot I have ever seen when he was playing for USC. It counted at the time but would not today.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
With the number of times I've seen it called out of bounds, I assumed it was, as well as announcers saying it is.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:42 AM
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Maybe I am wrong but, when you know the other team is going to press and seek to deny the in bounds pass, why do you leave the ball on the floor after the opponent scores and wait for someone else to pick it up? Get ball in bounds as quick as possible.

Gave Wagner to pick up their men and set the defense. Then our guards have to hustle to get open. Hence the 5 second violation or failing to get time out.

What happened to the old play of in bounding it high to a big man and then guards running their defenders around the big man? He either hands off to a passing guard or turns around and fires to someone on other side of half court.

Guess this shows why I am not a basketball coach.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I really don't understand how you're always in Crosby's corner but you discount how XW played last season while fully healthy. Really, I don't understand your reasoning.
Not sure what this has to do with Crosby. His height is perfect for a guard. My comment is an observation that is obvious. Williams loves the outside, rebounds rarely and loves the three. Landers loves the inside, and would score many more close in shots and more rebounds were he taller. Meanwhile Williams, at five inches shorter, would be quicker and probably dribble better. Of course if my aunt was my uncle she...

This of course is why we get most recruits, they have major chinks in their armour. If Crosby could shoot better and use better selectivity on his drives and, oh never mind.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeymo85 View Post
this team will gel. predict 10-6
I hope your right. I want you to be right. However, 2 games into the middle third of a 30 game schedule, it's hard to see what is improving over the first third.

I wish I could tell if its the players or the system.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Not sure what this has to do with Crosby. His height is perfect for a guard. My comment is an observation that is obvious. Williams loves the outside, rebounds rarely and loves the three. Landers loves the inside, and would score many more close in shots and more rebounds were he taller. Meanwhile Williams, at five inches shorter, would be quicker and probably dribble better. Of course if my aunt was my uncle she...

This of course is why we get most recruits, they have major chinks in their armour. If Crosby could shoot better and use better selectivity on his drives and, oh never mind.
I'd like to see X work a lot harder around the basket. Another perimeter sniper is the last thing we need from a 4 with his physical skills. Rebounding, or lack thereof, is all about commitment and technique...making it your mission to grab everything that comes off the glass, especially against an undersized opponent.

My expectations aren't too high for this team, still young and trying to figure things out...BUT, fundamental hoops like grabbin' boards and keeping every possession to 1 and done as often as possible is the smartest thing they can do to have a shot at winning 50/50 A10 games.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Not sure what this has to do with Crosby. His height is perfect for a guard. My comment is an observation that is obvious. Williams loves the outside, rebounds rarely and loves the three. Landers loves the inside, and would score many more close in shots and more rebounds were he taller. Meanwhile Williams, at five inches shorter, would be quicker and probably dribble better. Of course if my aunt was my uncle she...

This of course is why we get most recruits, they have major chinks in their armour. If Crosby could shoot better and use better selectivity on his drives and, oh never mind.
It has to do with the talent comparison between the two players. A wide disparity there that favors Williams.
JC's height being perfect as you say won't even get him a consolation prize. And rightfully so. You've gone from overzealous bubbly praise to him having the ideal height. So do a number of statues. But statues are at least consistent.
He goes oh-fer from the stripe one game and the next he doesn't miss. But the holes are still there, every game.
At least XW has had some very good games all-around. That's not been the case for JC. So what I was questioning was your reasoning when defending the lesser player while criticising a more talented player that is playing his way back from injury. Recognize it or not, I'm just saying.
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
If only Williams and Landers could swap their heights.
Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
It has to do with the talent comparison between the two players. A wide disparity there that favors Williams.
JC's height being perfect as you say won't even get him a consolation prize. And rightfully so. You've gone from overzealous bubbly praise to him having the ideal height. So do a number of statues. But statues are at least consistent.
He goes oh-fer from the stripe one game and the next he doesn't miss. But the holes are still there, every game.
At least XW has had some very good games all-around. That's not been the case for JC. So what I was questioning was your reasoning when defending the lesser player while criticising a more talented player that is playing his way back from injury. Recognize it or not, I'm just saying.
He wasn't even talking about Crosby. He was talking about Williams and Landers. You're the one who brought up Crosby.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Something that includes 18 games....
I finally got it. Duh!
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
He wasn't even talking about Crosby. He was talking about Williams and Landers. You're the one who brought up Crosby.
Yeah, I reread. My misinterpretation. I thought his 2nd reference to height was about JC. My query is why he always defends Crosby.
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  #28  
Old 12-25-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Not sure what this has to do with Crosby. His height is perfect for a guard.
I apologise, Jack. It was a good summation that you made between TL and XW. I questioned (out of turn) how you could find chinks in XW's game but cumulatively haven't given JC his just due. In terms of blame. My bad. Have a great Christmas.
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  #29  
Old 12-25-2017, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I apologise, Jack. It was a good summation that you made between TL and XW. I questioned (out of turn) how you could find chinks in XW's game but cumulatively haven't given JC his just due. In terms of blame. My bad. Have a great Christmas.
You too!
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  #30  
Old 12-25-2017, 10:53 AM
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Saturday was my first chance to see the team in person this season. The biggest takeaway for me: now I know why Grant keeps saying that Jordan Davis is going to be special. I’m really looking forward to watching him develop the rest of this season and beyond.
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  #31  
Old 12-25-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I wouldn't bet any amount against 8 wins but it is highly unlikely given what we already know. I'd say 6 wins in conference will be as good as we can get. And more likely 5 wins is what we'll get. But what do I know..
What are you guys smoking? They will finish .500 or above. its almost as if all of you neysayers want AG/UD to fail - which i deem as the definition of a fair weather fan. Pathetic actually. I hear there’s a mediocre team to the west with our former coach. Go follow them please...
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  #32  
Old 12-25-2017, 07:32 PM
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I’m all in flavor of objective criticism of our beloved Flyers but I do think some select posters have almost an emotional negativity. I claim the privilege to do that for our NFL team to the south which deserves it. Our Flyers don’t.
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  #33  
Old 12-25-2017, 07:45 PM
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Unlike past couple years, road games will be a real challenge. That first conference game will be huge. Duquesne is a team we should beat, even at their place (UD Arena East). Potentially a barameter type game.
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  #34  
Old 12-27-2017, 01:09 PM
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Rpiforecast is projecting 10-8. 16-14 overall. No NIT in that case.
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  #35  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:46 PM
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I can just imagine the CBI/CIT thread if we don't make the NIT. tman will be back on the MB promoting a boycott.
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  #36  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Rpiforecast is projecting 10-8. 16-14 overall. No NIT in that case.
They took 2 teams last year with 17-15 records and they like teams who can sell tickets . . .
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  #37  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
They took 2 teams last year with 17-15 records and they like teams who can sell tickets . . .
That is a good point, but those 2 teams were p5 teams. We will not get the preferential p5 treatment.


Clemson, 17-15, regular season rpi of 68, 2 seed

Georgia Tech, 17-15, regular season rpi of 106, 6 seed

Illinois, 18-14, regular season rpi of 64, 2 seed

Indiana, 18-15, regular season rpi of 79, 3 seed



We need to get up around 18 or 19 wins to have a shot IMO. I do not think 17 wins will cut it. 19 wins should be good enough. 18 wins might be a little iffy.

18 wins, projected rpi of 71

19 wins, projected rpi of 60

17 wins, projected rpi of 85

Last edited by ud2; 12-28-2017 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:36 PM
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Richmond got in last year, they were the only A10 team, 20-12, 4th place in the A10, regular season rpi of 80, they were one of the last 3 teams in, they got a 6 seed.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:56 AM
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After the NCAA took over the NIT ticket sales don't matter anymore. Plus we would be on the road for our first game because of the first four
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2017, 11:32 AM
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Maybe Providence could host us if the Arena is already committed to the First Four. That way we could still have "home" game.
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
After the NCAA took over the NIT ticket sales don't matter anymore. Plus we would be on the road for our first game because of the first four. Posted via Mobile Device
True about ticket sales but I thought a deal was worked out in which we could play our first round NIT game on Thursday. It wouldn't matter anyway, because if we snuck in we probably would be a 7 or 8 seed and start on the road.

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