Ben Simmons documentary critical of NCAA

[ud2]

Some provocative comments...


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...rs-get-nothing:



"The NCAA is really f---ed up," Simmons said on "One and Done," a film that will air on Showtime on Friday night. "Everybody's making money except the players. We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams and do everything they want us to do and then the players get nothing. They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get much education."

At LSU, he said he was offered a "Bentley, a Wraith Rolls-Royce, watches, jewelry, a house ... anything. It literally is anything. People coming at you, offering you things."

Simmons didn't say who offered him those gifts, which would have made him ineligible to compete in college. On a trip to a shoe store, he quips that a salesman would "let me take whatever" if he asked.

"[Coach] Jones said, 'We need to make up a punishment if you miss another class,'" Simmons said. "I missed my next class about preparing for better study habits. I'm going to the NBA next season. Why bull---- if it's not going to help me?

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ud2 Some provocative comments... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...rs-get-nothing: "The NCAA is really f---ed up," Simmons said on "One and Done," a film that will air on Showtime on Friday night. "Everybody's making money except the players. We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams and do everything they want us to do and then the players get nothing. They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get much education." At LSU, he said he was offered a "Bentley, a Wraith Rolls-Royce, watches, jewelry, a house ... anything. It literally is anything. People coming at you, offering you things." Simmons didn't say who offered him those gifts, which would have made him ineligible to compete in college. On a trip to a shoe store, he quips that a salesman would "let me take whatever" if he asked. "[Coach] Jones said, 'We need to make up a punishment if you miss another class,'" Simmons said. "I missed my next class about preparing for better study habits. I'm going to the NBA next season. Why bull---- if it's not going to help me?

This could all be avoided if the NBA went back to allowing high school kids in the draft. This really isn't the NCAA's fault (for once). The NCAA has to have the same rules for the 4 years players as the 1 and done players. Typically, it is the players who leave early and do not get their degrees that are complaining.

[Medford]

The NBA likely won't do it, but everyone would be better served if they went the NCAA baseball route and let those that want to declare out of HS declare and either play in the league or in the developmental league if they are good enough. If you do enroll in college, you can't enter the draft until after your 3rd season.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ud2 Some provocative comments... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...rs-get-nothing: "The NCAA is really f---ed up," Simmons said on "One and Done," a film that will air on Showtime on Friday night. "Everybody's making money except the players. We're the ones waking up early as hell to be the best teams and do everything they want us to do and then the players get nothing. They say education, but if I'm there for a year, I can't get much education."

Dear Ben, go overseas.

[rollo]

They should have interviewed Greg Oden, too.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Medford The NBA likely won't do it, but everyone would be better served if they went the NCAA baseball route and let those that want to declare out of HS declare and either play in the league or in the developmental league if they are good enough. If you do enroll in college, you can't enter the draft until after your 3rd season.

Boy can you imagine trying to keep most of those guys eligible for three years, not one. UNC non-class program would be the norm. As it is they need what 6 credits passed the first semester to remain eligible the second semester, and they don't have to attend any classes the second semester. What a joke to call them "student athletes". Agree the baseball route would help, and those not interested in college can use another route to the NBA. Pull a Lebron if you think you are good enough.

[priceg75]

Frankly, they need to do it in football as well, but totally agree with reinstating direct HS entry to the NBA for players that want to. The NBA might need to expand it's NBDL, but let them pay for it, and let the NCAA keep its claim to amateur status.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by Radar Dear Ben, go overseas.

Which is the irony in all this, Ben is from Australia. He came to the US specifically to play college basketball. Had he simply stayed, he would have been NBA draft eligible back in 2015 as a foreign player.

[Alberto Strasse]

is the living embodiment of the adage "It is far better to keep one's mouth shut and suffer the belief that you are stupid than to open it and remove all of the doubt."

[C-time]

Originally Posted by bcross Which is the irony in all this, Ben is from Australia. He came to the US specifically to play college basketball. Had he simply stayed, he would have been NBA draft eligible back in 2015 as a foreign player.

EXACTLY!!!!

Instead he came to the US which probably led to him getting the 20 million dollar shoe deal he got. He should be thanking the NCAA/ESPN for the season long Ben Simmons advertisement he had last year for free! If he had stayed in Australia like Dante Exum did it's highly unlikely he would have got all 20 million from Nike.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by C-time EXACTLY!!!! Instead he came to the US which probably led to him getting the 20 million dollar shoe deal he got. He should be thanking the NCAA/ESPN for the season long Ben Simmons advertisement he had last year for free! If he had stayed in Australia like Dante Exum did it's highly unlikely he would have got all 20 million from Nike.

But he had to go to class!!!! How dare the NCAA and LSU try to make a STUDENT ATHLETE go to class!!

[rollo]

Note to Ben: '1 and done' is an NBA rule.

[UDBrian]

That is rough! How many people here would be willing to attend classes and work hard for one year to get the millions that ben simmons received? It would actually help teams like UD to eliminate the one and done requirementl

It is true that players don't receive a lot of money but the few superstars should be careful that the current system stays in place. If the colleges stop providing college sports teams it will result in semi pro teams being the only training ground for the nba. I doubt semi pro teams would provide the same environment as being in college although you wouldn't need to attend classes on anything other than basketball

[xubrew]

I thought it was a ridiculous comment when I first heard it. For all the reasons to attack the NCAA, this was not one of them.

Then I actually watched the documentary today. This comment was such a small part of the story, and it was made at a time when he was understandably frustrated and came off as more of a vent than it did an actual critique. It makes no sense for ESPN to zero in on this as if it were the entire basis of the movie.

The movie got a few things about the NCAA a little bit wrong, but that really wasn't the point. It doesn't attack the NCAA, and it doesn't make a ridiculous argument as to how athletes deserve more than they get. It was simply about an extraordinary individual who was in an extraordinary situation, and what his life was like at the time. Nothing more. It actually did a pretty good job of taking you into his world.

If the only thing ESPN got out of this was that one brief rant that was inconsequential to the rest of the story, then they decided that's all they wanted to get out of it. Right after he said it, his family responded by saying "This is part of it. You gotta stick it out for a few more months." (or something to that effect). And, he agreed with them.

So, why is this even a story??

[Shawnee2]

Brian I have no idea how it would help schools like UD?? When in fact it helps schools like UD because they don't even bother to try and recruit kids this good and they can focus on 2 star recruits they hopefully can develope!!

[Jeff]

The kids athletic ability provided him an opportunity to get an education. If he doesn't take advantage of it, it's on him. Hopefully, he stays healthy, has a good career, and is hooked up with someone that can teach him how to manage his money. If it doesn't work out that way, it's on him.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by Medford The NBA likely won't do it, but everyone would be better served if they went the NCAA baseball route and let those that want to declare out of HS declare and either play in the league or in the developmental league if they are good enough. If you do enroll in college, you can't enter the draft until after your 3rd season.

That's summary of where I believe things need to go.


1) One and done's aren't fair to College Coaches who work hard to get a recruit
2) not fair to the Team and University
3) often one and doner's aren't ready
4) Simmons exposes the hyprocracy involved

5) Either the guys go pro from High School or D League


There is too much LACK of Stability going on , aside from the hypocrisy and other ethical issues.

[xubrew]

The NBA is split on this. I think many would like to go to a "two-and-done" format, but from what I understand it's the players that keep shooting it down. That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would the players union be against that?? If anything I'd think the current players would like the idea that the new star rookies have to wait an additional year before coming into the league and challenging them for their roster spots.

[Jay O'Leary]

I don't see the "two and done" happening. Athletes good enough to be in college for one year only, would be hard pressed to remain eligible for four semesters. There are only so many classes taught in basket weaving, underwater photography, the history of The Rolling Stones, coaching various athletic teams, and how to care for your cars interior. There are stories galore about athletes never attending class, writing papers, or passing exams. Just look at the NC Tarheel situation. I recall 20+ years ago where 2 University of California defensive backs sued the university because after they exhausted their athletic eligibility they were still unable to read a menu. What I respect most about UD is our graduation rates and GPA's among our student athletes. While we would all love to win a national championship in BB, it is unrealistic. We are competing against professional athletes in college, only there to meet the NBA requirements for admission into their league.

[Gazoo]

My understanding is that the 1 and done rule was from a time when the D-league was just an experiment so "we can't think of basketball the same way we think of baseball". In my opinion this is no longer the case. D league teams have now been around for a number of years and have reached a semi-stable footing. There is absolutely NO rational explanation anymore for why there needs to be a 1 and done rule in the NBA.

Just change the calculus. "If I draft this guy, he might spend the first year in the D league developing, I can only sign him to a max 3 year deal under the CBA (or whatever the # of years is at the time), so if I only get 2 years out of him is he worth it?" It's not impossible, just different.

I ask this question all day long at work: WHY. If you ask "why" enough times you eventually get to the core issue. Usually it's someone's pet peeve or because someone in a key role is lazy / unskilled more than a real reason.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Leary I don't see the "two and done" happening. Athletes good enough to be in college for one year only, would be hard pressed to remain eligible for four semesters. There are only so many classes taught in basket weaving, underwater photography, the history of The Rolling Stones, coaching various athletic teams, and how to care for your cars interior. There are stories galore about athletes never attending class, writing papers, or passing exams. Just look at the NC Tarheel situation. I recall 20+ years ago where 2 University of California defensive backs sued the university because after they exhausted their athletic eligibility they were still unable to read a menu. What I respect most about UD is our graduation rates and GPA's among our student athletes. While we would all love to win a national championship in BB, it is unrealistic. We are competing against professional athletes in college, only there to meet the NBA requirements for admission into their league.

It's an NBA rule, and they aren't going to take any of this into consideration because they either aren't familiar with it, or just don't care.

To be eligible for your second year, you need to have a 1.8 GPA, and to have passed 24 hours total, including up to six hours of remedial classes. That's not hard to do. I don't think you'll see any sort of increase in players being ineligible if the NBA changes it to a two and done format.

[shocka43]

I agree with half of what he says in terms of the one and done aspect and then he loses all credibility with some of the later statements.

The NCAA has no credibility. That is where this problem lies. Take UK for example. Nothing about UK basketball is academics. Not a **** thing. The mantra is...take the most BS classes you can for a semester...pass....who cares about anything after Christmas break...play hoops for a year...leave. Is this really the spirit of being a "student athlete"? No. This isn't a Ben Simmons problem, this is an NCAA problem with not holding programs accountable such as UK that throw "student athlete" out the window with one and done players.

I stand behind college athletes that there are very high demands that they have that other academic scholarship students don't have. I am not going to go there in terms of pay, because I don't think that is the answer. I also don't have a problem with stipends the equivalent of a campus job either. I don't think they should get an income, but as a former college athlete...it was nearly impossible for me to work a campus job and meet the academic and athletic demands. I would work my butt off on the off season to have money to do things regular college kids do....beer and pizza money ain't cheap. That's another discussion.

I want to see UK and other one and done schools operate in the same fashion as the schools that regularly graduate 4 year starters. I personally enjoy following a player his 4 years with a program. I have friends that are UK fans...what loyalty do you have to a program or school other than W's? How many of these UK players do UK fans even give a rats ass about when they go pro? College athletics is about winning...but there is so much more that comes along with it as a fan of a school such as UD. You get to know players, parents, etc...I would love to see a coach like Calapari have to operate his program with guys that have to actually attend glass, get grades, complete community service, etc...not just show up to play ball, sleepwalk through academics, live in nice quarters, live off the perks, etc...

The NCAA is a joke. He is right...what other careers require/mandate prerequisite utilization of resources prior to employment? If you are the best businessman in HS and are qualified to run your family company...nothing says you have to go work for the guy down the street for a year.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I would love to see a coach like Calapari have to operate his program with guys that have to actually attend glass, get grades, complete community service, etc...not just show up to play ball, sleepwalk through academics, live in nice quarters, live off the perks, etc... The NCAA is a joke. He is right...what other careers require/mandate prerequisite utilization of resources prior to employment? If you are the best businessman in HS and are qualified to run your family company...nothing says you have to go work for the guy down the street for a year.

He's proven he can't operate in that environment. Hence, two final fours vacated. The NBA one-and-done rule, along with Calipari, shoved UK right back to the top of the basketball world. Early on most high profile bball schools were slow to warm to the rule, taking the moral high ground, but that didn't last long. Still others offer additional "incentives" like call girls and fake classes.

[Gazoo]

We all know that NBA players are superior to college players, right?

So would any of us be any less of a follower of college basketball if the Ben Simmons's of the world went straight to the NBA? I think not.

I would love for college to go back to being real amateur sports. For the guys that are good enough, go pro. I love seeing programs developed with people who are so frickin' happy to have their 4 years of college paid for and then go get a job.

[xubrew]

I can understand people having the impression of Kentucky that they have, but I can say for certain that the perception is wrong.

The whole time Calipari has been at Kentucky they've only had one player who would not have been eligible to return the following year. The team's academic advisor is a guy named Michael Stone, and he's been there for about 25 years. He looks and acts a lot like Vic Mackey (for those of you who ever watched The Shield). I honestly think the players are afraid of him. All of their classes are checked, and they all have study hall, and they have it at all times during the year whether it's basketball season or not. On top of that, the players really aren't allowed to do much of anything. They don't run wild or get into trouble because they're barely allowed to leave their dorms. It's so over the top that I wouldn't want to go to Kentucky simply because the rules are too strict. Yes, they are one-and-dones, but he drills it into them that he has so many he doesn't care, and that there are more on the way so if they don't get it done there is someone behind them to replace them.

But that's the deal. You're basically locked away for a year, and you have a strict set of rules that you're expected to follow, but the payoff is that you will be ready for the NBA and you will make the NBA. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. If you ever spent any time around Kentucky's program you'd be surprised at how much in line he has those guys. They do go to class, and other than practice and games that's about the only time they ever leave home. You never hear of UK players getting in trouble, or tweeting stupid stuff, or posting stupid stuff, or making crazy comments in the media.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by xubrew I can understand people having the impression of Kentucky that they have, but I can say for certain that the perception is wrong. The whole time Calipari has been at Kentucky they've only had one player who would not have been eligible to return the following year. The team's academic advisor is a guy named Michael Stone, and he's been there for about 25 years. He looks and acts a lot like Vic Mackey (for those of you who ever watched The Shield). I honestly think the players are afraid of him. All of their classes are checked, and they all have study hall, and they have it at all times during the year whether it's basketball season or not. On top of that, the players really aren't allowed to do much of anything. They don't run wild or get into trouble because they're barely allowed to leave their dorms. It's so over the top that I wouldn't want to go to Kentucky simply because the rules are too strict. Yes, they are one-and-dones, but he drills it into them that he has so many he doesn't care, and that there are more on the way so if they don't get it done there is someone behind them to replace them. But that's the deal. You're basically locked away for a year, and you have a strict set of rules that you're expected to follow, but the payoff is that you will be ready for the NBA and you will make the NBA. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. If you ever spent any time around Kentucky's program you'd be surprised at how much in line he has those guys. They do go to class, and other than practice and games that's about the only time they ever leave home. You never hear of UK players getting in trouble, or tweeting stupid stuff, or posting stupid stuff, or making crazy comments in the media.

This is exactly what I wanted to type but was too lazy to. Daniel Orton is the only UK player who left without finishing 2nd semester. I linked an article below about Jahlil Okafor(Duke) and several of the UK players and their good academics.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-bas...-campus-041916

[UDFLIES]

Yeah! UK is such a dirty program!

Just look at the last couple of years! Multiple players suspended for sexual assault allegations, multiple players kicked off for robbing girls dorms, multiple players failing to meet academic standards and being deemed ineligible !! Oh wait....

Just saying, maybe we should step back and look in the mirror before we trash the way other programs are run.
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