UD +3.5 vs. Butler

[ud2]

The line opened at UD +2.5.

132 over/under

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-...dds/las-vegas/

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-...odds/offshore/

[TheDuke2003]

Closer line than I would have thought. Give me the over for total points, if I were a betting man I'd give the points.

[Buster Goode]

Lower spread than expected. Probably a lot of money going Butler

[UD90]

Not sure spread is lower than expected based on predictor models

Kenpom 68-67
UD +1
Sagarin 81.57 - 80.57
UD +1
RealtimeRPI - 66-62
UD+4
Massey 70-66
UD+4

[Smitty10]

I have to go with Butler and give away the points. I'm looking at the A10 and referee factor. It's best for the A10 that Butler not get beat in the first round. This is a team that with one or two wins in the tourny will be a lock for the NCAA tourney. While it's in the best interest of the A10 to have a team that's not projected to go win the tourney, I can't see them pushing along a team that's the last seed.

Yes, I've become very skeptical of the Refs and the hidden agendas in these conference tournaments.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I have to go with Butler and give away the points. I'm looking at the A10 and referee factor. It's best for the A10 that Butler not get beat in the first round. This is a team that with one or two wins in the tourny will be a lock for the NCAA tourney. While it's in the best interest of the A10 to have a team that's not projected to go win the tourney, I can't see them pushing along a team that's the last seed. Yes, I've become very skeptical of the Refs and the hidden agendas in these conference tournaments.

Respectfully disagree. Butler's rpi right now is around #21, IMO, Butler is already in the dance regardless of whether they beat UD or not.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This is a team that with one or two wins in the tourny will be a lock for the NCAA tourney.

Wait, what? You think if Dayton beats Butler, Butler won't make the NCAA Tournament? Butler is in the top 25 of RPI, and a loss to UD will drop them to maybe RPi 35. And being a 'well-known' name in the basketball circles now-a-days, I think they are already in.

Edit: ud2 beat me to it.

[SLUFLYER]

Butler is a lock. There is not a debate.

As far as A10 is concerned with getting teams in the tournament, it would be better for Dayton to win. Of course, the refs would have to "fix" Dayton's 3 succeeding games as well.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Wait, what? You think if Dayton beats Butler, Butler won't make the NCAA Tournament? Butler is in the top 25 of RPI, and a loss to UD will drop them to maybe RPi 35. And being a 'well-known' name in the basketball circles now-a-days, I think they are already in. Edit: ud2 beat me to it.

Okay, you're probably correct that Butler gets in regardless. It still can have a negative effect on the way the selection committee views your conference to have your 3rd seed lock knocked out in the first round by the final seed. It could give the committee an excuse to leave out that 4th or 5th team that they would've taken. I think it's in the A10's best interest to have good showings by their "locks" while having one non-contending at-large team take it all. And I don't think they look as far down as last seed for that that longshot.

I'm not saying Dayton can't be that miracle team, I just don't see them getting favored calls by the refs that other's might get.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Okay, you're probably correct that Butler gets in regardless. It still can have a negative effect on the way the selection committee views your conference to have your 3rd seed lock knocked out in the first round by the final seed. It could give the committee an excuse to leave out that 4th or 5th team that they would've taken. I think it's in the A10's best interest to have good showings by their "locks" while having one non-contending at-large team take it all. And I don't think they look as far down as last seed for that that longshot. I'm not saying Dayton can't be that miracle team, I just don't see them getting favored calls by the refs that other's might get.

There are NOT favored calls in these tournaments that a higher seed might get. No matter how bad officiating is in the A10, there's not an agenda to give the close calls toward a certain team in a given game - be it consciously or sub-consciously.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER There are NOT favored calls in these tournaments that a higher seed might get. No matter how bad officiating is in the A10, there's not an agenda to give the close calls toward a certain team in a given game - be it consciously or sub-consciously.

And you know this how? Especially the "sub-consciously" part? Look, sports in general has show signs of this and I don't think it's a coincidence that the lock teams rarely win the A10 tournament. I'll grant you that a non-lock team has the advantage of motivation, but I can still see close iffy calls going in favor of what's advantagous to the conference. There's a lot of money involved and as this world we live in proves more and more every day, it corrupts integrity.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 And you know this how? Especially the "sub-consciously" part? Look, sports in general has show signs of this and I don't think it's a coincidence that the lock teams rarely win the A10 tournament. I'll grant you that a non-lock team has the advantage of motivation, but I can still see close iffy calls going in favor of what's advantagous to the conference. There's a lot of money involved and as this world we live in proves more and more every day, it corrupts integrity.

I'll take this one SLUFLYER,

So what do think happens before the tournament starts? The A10 administration gets together with all the refs and let's them know how they want the calls to go? And nobody else knows?

[Snackman]

I would wait for the number to reach 4, but I'm definitely on the Flyers in this spot.

[bigudfan]

People seriously complaining about the officiating before the game has been played? Geez!

[ClevelandFlyer05]

The problem with conference tournaments is that quite often, particularly when we're talking about conferences that have several teams that are locks, is that the incentive is indeed there for fixing the games so that a non-lock team wins the autobid. I'm not saying that this has ever happened (or that we could ever possibly know about it), but the incentive is definitely there.

Just another reason why I absolutely abhor the use of the small sample size conference tournaments as the means for determining which teams qualify for what is supposed to be the tournament to determine the best team in college basketball. No team with a losing record in conference play should be able to fluke its way into the Dance based on one strong weekend of basketball.

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by UD90 Not sure spread is lower than expected based on predictor models Kenpom 68-67 UD +1 Sagarin 81.57 - 80.57 UD +1 RealtimeRPI - 66-62 UD+4 Massey 70-66 UD+4

Lower than what I expected

[cobra8u]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER There are NOT favored calls in these tournaments that a higher seed might get. No matter how bad officiating is in the A10, there's not an agenda to give the close calls toward a certain team in a given game - be it consciously or sub-consciously.

SLU what you smoking bro..I officiated high school basketball in SW ohio for several years and guess what.......many of our most highly regarded officials here would tell me who was going to win the game before we started the night, I remember one very well known official in the Dayton area bragging at halftime of the Xenia vs Alter game that he had called 3 fouls on that smartmouth Adam Waleskowski kid. I was sure this went on that's why I got into officiating, so I could verify what I always felt was true.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[cobra8u]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 And you know this how? Especially the "sub-consciously" part? Look, sports in general has show signs of this and I don't think it's a coincidence that the lock teams rarely win the A10 tournament. I'll grant you that a non-lock team has the advantage of motivation, but I can still see close iffy calls going in favor of what's advantagous to the conference. There's a lot of money involved and as this world we live in proves more and more every day, it corrupts integrity.

Money is the Root of all evil.....there is a quote out there about complacency and the end of democracy...and complacency abounds in this day and age....peeps cant see the truth anymore because they want to believe this old world will just keep keepin on

[UD90]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Lower than what I expected

Ok - but not Butler money moving the line much.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by bigudfan People seriously complaining about the officiating before the game has been played? Geez!

It's easier to say the refs stink than to admit your team does.

The whiners and excuse makers need to read the Women's basketball thread about the St. Joe's loss....it's refreshing to read intelligent thoughts about why the team lost...and there's not one post about UD getting homered by refs anywhere...no talk about the need for 'luck' or 'if' to be found...How'd that happen???

Will the men's page ever evolve to where the women's page currently is...where we admit to weaknesses and look for solutions and make NO excuses???

I doubt it, too.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by rollo It's easier to say the refs stink than to admit your team does.

Yes, but it's often more accurate to say they both do.

[ud2]

http://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/atlan...nament-betting

Not bad, UD has the 8th best odds to win the A10 tournament.



Atlantic 10 Conference Tournament Odds - courtesy of 5Dimes:

Saint Louis +200
Virginia Commonwealth +220
Temple +600
La Salle +850
Butler +1100
St. Joseph's +2100
Richmond +2300
Dayton +2400
Massachusetts +3000
Xavier +3100
George Washington +7000
Charlotte +16000

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by cobra8u SLU what you smoking bro..I officiated high school basketball in SW ohio for several years and guess what.......many of our most highly regarded officials here would tell me who was going to win the game before we started the night, I remember one very well known official in the Dayton area bragging at halftime of the Xenia vs Alter game that he had called 3 fouls on that smartmouth Adam Waleskowski kid. I was sure this went on that's why I got into officiating, so I could verify what I always felt was true.

Silly talk

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Larymike]

Originally Posted by ud2 http://www.oddsshark.com/ncaab/atlan...nament-betting Not bad, UD has the 8th best odds to win the A10 tournament. Atlantic 10 Conference Tournament Odds - courtesy of 5Dimes: Saint Louis +200 Virginia Commonwealth +220 Temple +600 La Salle +850 Butler +1100 St. Joseph's +2100 Richmond +2300 Dayton +2400 Massachusetts +3000 Xavier +3100 George Washington +7000 Charlotte +16000

I'll put $ 100.00 on each team to win the A10 tournament.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[DGO67]

Not a bad bet! If SLU or Temple don't win the A10, you are ahead...if you can get down with those odds. Of course there are 6 other teams that you hope don't sneak in.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Viperstick]

Screw the A-10 tourney, we're 1000-1 odds to win the NCAAs. Xavier is 500-1.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-.../odds/futures/

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.