You don't get it.

[rollo]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

[Don]

It's hard to believe some of the posters have any clue of what the UD AD does and doesn't do. Binnie Bombs says he devotes all his time to BB. Binnie Bombs is so clueless I almost didn't bother to reply because he is probably hopeless. TK devotes a LOT of time to EVERY intercollegiate sport UD participates in. His success in upgrading these non-revenue sports may well be the nevy of the A10. We have championship or near championship calibre teams in both mens and womens soccer, volleyball, and womens track. Baseball and womens BB are definitely a couple notches better than 15 years ago. We are now offering many more scholarships in these sports than we were 15 years ago - and this is important for both NCAA and A10 competitation. I would guess that TK spends at least 80% of his time on things related to sports other than mens BB. His philosophy is to seek out good coaches and give them the resources to either swim or sink. I recall hearing that the coaching staff was upset with the 2006-07 schedule that TK set up - that was the season we played UNC and Pitt on the road and Louisville in Cincy. As for the Michigan State-WSU game, I have no trouble believing that MSU was perfectly willing to play in front of a few thousand fans at WSU, so Andre Huston could play in front of the home folks, but unwilling to play a tougher opponent in front of 13,000 rabid fans.

[udflyerhoops2]

Originally Posted by Don I would guess that TK spends at least 80% of his time on things related to sports other than mens BB.

This is the problem. If he would up it to at least 50% maybe things would turn around. It's great that UD's other sports are faring so well, yet the money maker can't finish in the top half of a mediocre at best conference.

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by Don His success in upgrading these non-revenue sports may well be the nevy of the A10. We have championship or near championship calibre teams in both mens and womens soccer, volleyball, and womens track. Baseball and womens BB are definitely a couple notches better than 15 years ago.

That is all fine and great but I really don't care. I'd take last place in all other sports provided that we have a nationally respected basketball team that actually wins a NCAA game more than once every couple of decades. Do you think that a school like XU with their success in men's basketball, assuming all their other non-revenue sports are bad, would be in a worse position for the rumored conference realignment than a school like UD with a completely mediocre basketball team and good non-revenue sports? I don't. The Big East will not be reorganizing itself based on women's softball, men's soccer or crew.

Sure, it is nice to have success in these other areas. But UD is a basketball school. Period. And if TK is spending greater than 80% of his time on everything else, I think he needs to check his priorities (for the record, I am guessing that TK spends at least 50% of his time on men's bb).

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[udflyerhoops2]

I 2nd Singlet's statement.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Chris, I hope that you don't have to resort to closing accounts but unfortunately in light of what I've read from several of the regulars on this site---several heads will indeed need to roll before things calm down, they really learn that enough is enough already and for most of us to enjoy our dose of UD sports that we typically have gotten from your site. I feel exactly as you and other posters who are all for rational, well thought out topics/discussions but several of the "regulars" seem to start threads or post there thoughts simply to see how fast there tainted self absorbed responses will light up the board-----most of the time, it's the same old 3-4 Kissell haters (some of which don't even support the University in any way, first and foremest by buying tickets for basketball games). Several have all of 3-4 years as UD basketball fans but already seem to consider themselves experts on all subjects associated with UD---I see this in information they provide in there numerous posts. Most of them probably have never talked to anyone from athletics (or did so only by chance) and have little if any basis "IN FACT" for what they post---they are simply venting and attacking on a regular basis without really knowing how hard these people work each day of every year on behalf of UD basketball, UD athletics, and the University of Dayton! For some folks---none of that would matter---that's OK if that's how they choose to function----but there constant negative/combative posts have gotten old---at least to me and others it appears.

Many of us (including you) know many people in athletics and count them as friends. We know many of these folks work there arses off each day for less pay than they would recieve at many other Division 1 institutions because they want UD to win the a-10 each year in basketball and other sports, advance into the tournament and regain some of there national prominence that goes along with basketball programs. Those folks in the athletic office want nothing more than to win---period!

I understand some of the dissappoinment, but I am also optimistic especially after seeing this AD and Coach make some noise last December/January before injuries, sickness etc. caused last years collapse. I know that they've had similar "collapses" in the past---I believe that we are on the cusp of some great things in our basketball program here at UD---just like many other UD fans! Some people will NEVER be happy with UD basketball or TK---I guess that makes it difficult when they continue to try and convince people that they are actually FANS of the University of Daytons basketball program.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[smitch425]

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth I'd take last place in all other sports provided that we have a nationally respected basketball team that actually wins a NCAA game more than once every couple of decades.

I'm sure the atheletes in the non-basketball sports that work their hardest to make their school proud appreciate that statement

Here is what I know:
I heard TK speak at the pregame alumni breakfast in AC. No one who heard him speak could have walked out of that club thinking anything other than basketball is a priority and that he has a passion for the school and the team and its success. There are people out there that think he wants to charge the fans as much as possible and that is just not true. He was specifically asked if we will get a big screen for the arena and he said that he would not put one in unless he had corporate sponsors because he did not want the fans to pay for one. Also, in regards to the schedule, he is just ONE MAN. Granted he is the head guy when it comes to that stuff, but it also falls on the coaches and the team to get our program to the level where it deserves the big games.
TK speaks at events all the time and to my knowlege I have never seen any of the TK whiners have a post like "I asked him this" or I asked him that". I highly doubt that he reads this board, but I wish he did so he could defend himself against all the haters here. Even though defending himself is something he shouldn't need to do.
For those of you who don't like him then chances are we all already know who you are. Why go on about it for days? If you think you could do better, odds are you are wrong. If you think someone else would be a better fit for the university, write a letter. TK must have a boss, right?

[rollo]

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth That is all fine and great but I really don't care. I'd take last place in all other sports provided that we have a nationally respected basketball team that actually wins a NCAA game more than once every couple of decades. Do you think that a school like XU with their success in men's basketball, assuming all their other non-revenue sports are bad, would be in a worse position for the rumored conference realignment than a school like UD with a completely mediocre basketball team and good non-revenue sports? I don't. The Big East will not be reorganizing itself based on women's softball, men's soccer or crew. Sure, it is nice to have success in these other areas. But UD is a basketball school. Period. And if TK is spending greater than 80% of his time on everything else, I think he needs to check his priorities (for the record, I am guessing that TK spends at least 50% of his time on men's bb).

Believe it or not, the larger and more successful conferences have MINIMUM standards for facilities, gender equity, academics etc... in order to even apply for membership. Without full Administrative support of all aspects of your University, you're going nowhere.

Kissell knows this, which is why he's busting his rear end to upgrade every aspect of our athletic department. If the rumored split does take place in the very near future, UD - and maybe 1 or 2 other A10 schools - will be ready. And if this move is successful, they'll erect a statue of Kissell in front of the Frericks building.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[UACFlyer]

What "rumored splt? If this refers to the Big East, forget it;...it's just that, a rumor.

[tman]

Originally Posted by NCkevi I agree - passion, regardless of whether or not I agree with you is great. However, once you have to start making things up (see tmas post on the call between TK and the Michigan State AD) you lose credibility when you have to resort to lies to justify your opinion. Stick to opinion and facts and avoid lies and personal attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion and no one will 'crucify' you

For the record--I did not make anything up--The Mich St. situation had been covered here many times. Mich St. on their way to a national championship wanted to play the U of DAYTON @ ud arena--. Both AD's spoke on the phone just as I said and is common knowledge among both WSU and UD supportors that after a short talk the Mich St. AD said forget it.

Later WSU came into the picture and both parties agreed to a contract. If a couple of posters here are not aware of the situation why are they NOT called out when calling someone--(me) a liar. Its facts--- Its common knowledge.

Instead we get a lecture from the administration warning ---I guess me--and threatening me , I guess, because I brought up a situation that is facts--that is well known--Unlike the rebuttal I get from some posters---I didn't call anyone a liar etc.

So be it---Throw me out---I'm not a child--I didn't call anyone anything. I gave an opinion. ANd I gave a true account of what happened when a national championship team wanted to play here.--I didn't lie. I was called a liar--then I was told to play nice---

Crap or get off the pot.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by tman For the record--I did not make anything up--The Mich St. situation had been covered here many times. Mich St. on their way to a national championship wanted to play the U of DAYTON @ ud arena--. Both AD's spoke on the phone just as I said and is common knowledge among both WSU and UD supportors that after a short talk the Mich St. AD said forget it. Later WSU came into the picture and both parties agreed to a contract. If a couple of posters here are not aware of the situation why are they NOT called out when calling someone--(me) a liar. Its facts--- Its common knowledge.

Why don't you post the evidence that the AD from MSU refused to play UD specifically because of TK, which is what you said - before saying it was ALL TK's fault the game wasn't played I'd like to know what was said in the conversation

Originally Posted by tman Michingan State on their way to a national championship wanted to play at UD arena. After a 15 min talk on the phone with Teddy K--the Mich St. AD said FORGET IT---and they ended up playing at WSU. Its not UD can't get a quality game, its TED KISSELL that cannot get a contract.

[tman]

Originally Posted by NCkevi Why don't you post the evidence that the AD from MSU refused to play UD specifically because of TK, which is what you said - before saying it was ALL TK's fault the game wasn't played I'd like to know what was said in the conversation

I don't care what you want--I'm not here to please you.---Its been covered here @ UDpride tens of times. I'm not going over it again. Posters over the years have covered it. Dozens of times.

You call me a liar , then you want me to help you?
I owe you nothing---do your own reseach---.

Are you and Avid shocked by this old news?
Perhaps you should read the title of this thread. Perhaps your know how of this AD is not as strong as you and Avid would like to portray it.

All of this has nothing to do with this thread. Its not about me. The conversation was going on just fine untill a few posters made things personal--all the while declaring (don't make things personal).

The thread was highjacked by a few posters who were complaining about people who don't stay on topic---?????

Seem like a pretty good conversation---then a few chimmed again with why I hate this posters and that one---all the while complaining about keeping personal attacks out of it.

[smitch425]

Originally Posted by tman then a few chimmed again with why I hate this posters and that one---all the while complaining about keeping personal attacks out of it.

Not sure if I fell into this category with my post, but I would like to state for the record that I have no ill feelings toward anyone on the board.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by rollo Believe it or not, the larger and more successful conferences have MINIMUM standards for facilities, gender equity, academics etc... in order to even apply for membership. Without full Administrative support of all aspects of your University, you're going nowhere. Kissell knows this, which is why he's busting his rear end to upgrade every aspect of our athletic department. If the rumored split does take place in the very near future, UD - and maybe 1 or 2 other A10 schools - will be ready. And if this move is successful, they'll erect a statue of Kissell in front of the Frericks building.

If I remember correctly UD had to make promises they would upgrade the sports programs excluding basketball and football before the A10 would accept them.
Before TK arrived sports excluding basketball and football were funded at a level you would expect at a low level Div 3 school. Facilities were poor or nonexistant. Coaches were often of the part time unpaid variety. Those sports programs had to be created basically from scratch.
On the Michigan St Wright St game the Michigan St folks called UD and got their terms then went shopping at Walmart (wright st) and got a cheaper price. When you have trouble giving away tickets like the Wright St program was at the time you become a very cheap date if you catch my drift.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Chris R]

All the proof I need that most people are completely out of touch with intercollegiate athletics is when I read comments about sacrificing the success of one sport for another.

The folks who work at UD are not in the business of shuffling cones. Their goal is to make every sport successful. The fact that soccer, volleyball, track, and football are successful does not in any way limit the potential success of mens basketball. Its not an either/or proposition. Theres no mandate saying if basketball is on top of the world, all other athletes must suffer for it.

Where's the accountability for the coaching staff, trainers, and players. They are the ones actually working between the baselines.

What part of the schedule had to do with UD barfing up CONFERENCE losses at LaSalle and GW that undeniably kept us from the NCAA tournament. How did Mr Kissell use his sorcerer's powers to effectively no-show the team against Tulsa and DePaul?

At no point in the last 10 years has scheduling kept us from reaching our goals. We are allowed to win every game on the schedule. Really. From the softer schedules to the more difficult ones. There is no imaginary cap on how well and how often Dayton can play. If our basketball posture is so inept and timid that we blame things like schedule, solar flares, poor Dayton nightlife, and bad halftime promotions for our collective misery, then we are every bit as much of the problem as those we seek to solve them.

As an addendum, the forum rules clearly state all UD personnel, employees, athletes, coaches, and administrators observe silent membership on this forum and retain the same rights to be respected and treated in a commendable fashion -- even in disagreement. However a few individuals choose to use this form as a safe harbor for their childish rants knowing in complete confidence that those they detest will not respond and question the statements.

If you have a problem with the performance of those at UD, go ahead and make a comment about it. But quit nailing people to the cross and using this Web site as shelter for your venom. You have not earned enough provenance in this life or any other to take such a Holy position.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[The Chef]

Originally Posted by NCkevi Why don't you post the evidence that the AD from MSU refused to play UD specifically because of TK, which is what you said - before saying it was ALL TK's fault the game wasn't played I'd like to know what was said in the conversation

NCkevi,

As I am speaking to someone who I know does his homework on these things, let offer you this advice: the proper course of action here is to consider the source. You'll find all the "evidence" you need there.

[Binnie Bombs 33]

Yeah, I can deliver my posts in a stand-offish matter ... but people like me just as much as they dislike me and that is fine. Maybe I swear and I can stop that ... but almost all of my points are valid.

I just don't understand why "other" sports are as important to UD Bball? I don't understand that AT ALL. How has UD not won an Ncaa tournament game in 18 years?

Fact is ... while other sports may be getting better ... UD basketball has fallen off of the map nationally and has become a second rate program at best. People want to move conferences ... it won't happen, what do we have to sell them? Oh our football team won the inter-willy-division-sat-out-i-l-championship ... our baseball team almost won 25 games this season, our soccer teams were the bottom seeds of the A-10 tournament but hey, "at least they qualified." Our softball and women's basketball team has never danced and probably never will ... but hey we have a killer volleyball team, one in which the coach just left!! Please take us in your conference.

HOW ABOUT A CRAZY IDEA!! hey Ted take the success of the football team that everyone now seems to love and defend and spin those games against San Diego, Drake, Valpo ... or even BUTLER (or is that too unachievable fans? ... yeah that 1 hour trip down the road) ... etc into basketball games?? That is so insane that it may work ... how about taking some steps with your other programs to enhance the one that matter the most to everyone associated with UD.

I don't care if we have to go to Bradley and SIU and they dont come to UD one year if that is what it takes to start a home and home with two schools who will always be decent in the coming years. Those are bus rides and those teams make waaaaay to much sense for Ted to schedule, stick to Wofford and Deleware St, teddy. We should shoot for the MVC and if we can't achieve it settle for the MWC or something ... not THE MAC. We should have 2 or 3 MVC home and homes and 1 MAC home and home (Miami) ... the MVC is the conference we should want every year and we should want the A-10 to be them.

I am sorry that I am being sarcastic but it is so true ... 60 percent of his time should be spent on Men's basketball alone ... or is he that stupid ... why don't we fire him or get another AD and have two staffed so they can efficiently get things done.

To me 18 yrs, 0 tourny wins says it all ... were there individual successes in certain seasons ... yes ... BUT THE OVERALL GOAL HAS NEVER BEEN MET! Shame on him, the university and some of you brainwashed fans who put up with mediocrity and say it is okay because other sports are doing a little better.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by tman You call me a liar , then you want me to help you? I owe you nothing---do your own reseach---.

Just because it's posted on a fan forum doesn't mean it's true. If you make the statement you better be ready to back it up if called on your facts. If you can't or won't then your statement is not only meaningless, it's worthless because it is just an unsubtantiated rumor at that point.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by tman For the record--I did not make anything up--The Mich St. situation had been covered here many times. Mich St. on their way to a national championship wanted to play the U of DAYTON @ ud arena--. Both AD's spoke on the phone just as I said and is common knowledge among both WSU and UD supportors that after a short talk the Mich St. AD said forget it.

Why, why, why ohhhhgreat tman did the MSU AD hang up on Kissell? That's what we want to have summarized.

Nobody on this site, except maybe BB33, believes that Kissell took the call and immediately said 'no'. Nobody in UD's position would turn down an opportunity to play a Big 10 team at home with no strings attached. Obviously you are leaving out alot of information....and doing so either out of (a) ignorance (b) hatred.

What did Kissell demand and why? Did he insist that the MSU football team also play at Welcome Stadium?? Did Kissell insist that MSU play here 3 consecutive years? Did he insist on playing at MSU the following year and was rebuffed??? Did MSU want to be paid handsomely (that's the rumor I heard looong ago) to come to UD, in which case Kissel may have done the right thing!?!

Your 'doom and gloom, take my word as fact, I know it all but can't/won't debate or offer facts' approach to discussing Kissell sounds more and more like Al Gore with every post. BTW....I didn't mean for that to sound like a compliment .

That the conversation between the AD's took place is probably factual. That the MSU AD said 'forget it' is feasible....but I'm dying to know why he would do so as well as why Kissell would turn down a one way game with MSU at UD Arena.

I'm also betting that it didn't happen.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33 To me 18 yrs, 0 tourny wins says it all ... were there individual successes in certain seasons ... yes ... BUT THE OVERALL GOAL HAS NEVER BEEN MET! Shame on him, the university and some of you brainwashed fans who put up with mediocrity and say it is okay because other sports are doing a little better.

Actually, to get technical, the Men's Basketball program has not had the results that you want, you have no clue if the goal of the Atheletic Department has been met.

[Binnie Bombs 33]

Yeah I am sure they love not winning an Ncaa tournament game.

If that is not their goal then we need to move to the Sun Belt Conference so our other teams thrive and we play crappy teams ... oh wait, we already are.

[Flyer'95]

Phinhead, if anyone in the athletic department feels that their goals have been achieved at this point in time they should be fired. Immediately. Who on earth could claim that our athletic mission as a university has been accomplished? We have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by skip69 I actually believed that we could have been good enough to get there this year, but this schedule makes it impossible unless we win the conf tourney.

That statement is obviously false.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 Phinhead, if anyone in the athletic department feels that their goals have been achieved at this point in time they should be fired. Immediately. Who on earth could claim that our athletic mission as a university has been accomplished? We have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go.

Tell us what the Athletic mission as a university is?
Your version of what you want or the version that the University has wanted over the past 35+ years may not be the same.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by longtimefan That statement is obviously false.

Come on longetimefan he could be right. If we have a string of a dozen or so St. Bonnie like forfeits it could happen.
Pat Paulsen could also be our next President.

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by rollo Believe it or not, the larger and more successful conferences have MINIMUM standards for facilities, gender equity, academics etc... in order to even apply for membership. Without full Administrative support of all aspects of your University, you're going nowhere. Kissell knows this, which is why he's busting his rear end to upgrade every aspect of our athletic department. If the rumored split does take place in the very near future, UD - and maybe 1 or 2 other A10 schools - will be ready. And if this move is successful, they'll erect a statue of Kissell in front of the Frericks building.

Just to make sure my point is even more obvious, there is no question that TK has upgraded all the non-revenue sports. Bravo. But what about men's basketball, the flagship sport of the school rich with tradition? I would hope that no one on here would argue that we have had great success as of late or be satisfied with the limited success that we have had. Personally, I would rather have men's basketball be the tide that raises all boats as opposed to having softball, volleyball, soccer, etc etc be the tide that raises the basketball program. There's a novel thought. Call me crazy.

And for the record - I am really glad to see the success of the soccer and volleyball and all other programs - I think it is great. But I would rather have a successful men's bb program (not that they are mutually exclusive).

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Dirty Sanchez]

looks like Binnie was Bombed.

[GetFlyeredup]

Why was Binnie Bombed?

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez looks like Binnie was Bombed.

Bigger surprise than the execution of Anne Boleyn on the Tudors?

[AC91]

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33 If people sat down and thought about it ... 18 yrs with no wins in the Ncaa tourny ... how does he still have a job. So what if I say someone should be fired ... after 18 years or very little success and none of the ultimate goal of winning an actual Ncaa game ... why should we keep him around?

I guess to me the point here is that there is a lot missing from this view. TK took over after - and you cannot overstate this - a period of hug turmoil in UD hoops. 2 eras ended. first Don Donoher was fired and then the Tom Frericks era ended. Tom Frericks, for those of you who do not know, was the ULTIMATE insider in the NCAA basketball/selection process. So, the DD era ended and JOB is hired. the Frericks leaves and in hindsight it is clear that, despite being an insider, he missed a lot in the evolution of college hoops (conference affiliation, et al). so we took last gasp efforts on the conference fron and joined the MCC while we went through the coaching changes. Unfortunately, the JOB era we an abject disaster once he got his own players in there and when we had a chance to upgrade congerences - the Great Midwest - UD was in no position to do so. And, I believe UD as an institution had a hard time dealing with this at first. This is the mess that TK inherited...along with insufficient focus, facilities and resources for most of the other programs in the Athletics dept (which he is responsible for AND which needed to be improved in the NCAA climate of the 1990s). This is no small feat. TK inherited an Athletics dep with a flagship program a shell of its former self, a football program that was a national power at the Div 3 level (this was taken away from UD during this time, forcing UD to figure out how to make football viable at some D-1 level) and not much else.

There is no way you can say TK has not improved the program. The guys directly responsible for hoops performance - coaches - have been fired and hired while UD fixed the ship. There have undoubtedly been bumps in the road, and who is to say (besides Dan Curran and th Board of trustees) whether he has done his job (and the criteria may not be what you think it is) or if his tenure might be getting stale? but there is no way you can say that TK has failed during his tenure when you look at all of the issues in he athletic Dept he has had to deal with. There are guys like UDDoug out there who are much more articulte than I am about this history, but it is a complicated on and one that has show real stability and promise in the past few years (soccer, vball, football, basketball, maintained graduation performance, improved facilities, et al).

So i guess I am saying that we are all entitled to our opinions about why we are not where we want to be, but I personally appreciate it when arguments are made in rational, logical ways, not based on limited facts to support a pre-drawn conclusion....if that's the case, just state that you want TK gone because you simply think it's time for a change to shake it up a bit.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Avid Flyer]

Wow reading these post it is hard to comprehend that a few just don't under stand that a winning mens basketball program will not all by itself get us into a bigger conference should one open. It has been said over and over that ALL sports will be considered for inclusion to formation of any new conference of worth.

For those who only care about UD mens basketball and discount the other sports programs will be gnashing there teeth if the annual national champion flyers would get left out of a new power conference just because we didn't have sprots programs and facilities to match the criteria of these power conferences.

UD mens basketball is not sinking the sports program. it is staying afloat and with the obvious upgrade of talent could well get over the hump and into the national light. At the same time, the other UD sprts are fast climing the ladders of success and national prominence.

to be in position for an invite to any power conference new or otherwise will include all sports programs and not just mens basketball. None of us are content with the level of the mens program as we all want national prominence and winning deep into the NCAA, but I do not want to do so to the exclusion of all others sports, for that is the true recipe for disaster for consideration to any bigger conferences. Mens basketball cannot do it alone.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Wow reading these post it is hard to comprehend that a few just don't under stand that a winning mens basketball program will not all by itself get us into a bigger conference should one open. It has been said over and over that ALL sports will be considered for inclusion to formation of any new conference of worth.

Something weird is going on here. I was going to suggest you clarify your first sentence by inserting the word NOT, but when I quote it the word NOT is in there, but it is not in the original post.

Edit: Never mind. It is in there now.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Something weird is going on here. I was going to suggest you clarify your first sentence by inserting the word NOT, but when I quote it the word NOT is in there, but it is not in the original post. Edit: Never mind. It is in there now.

Yea I read it after I posted it and caught it so you got the edited version while looking at the original. Should have read it first then posted, oh well. Too quick on the post button.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by AC91 I guess to me the point here is that there is a lot missing from this view. TK took over after - and you cannot overstate this - a period of hug turmoil in UD hoops. 2 eras ended. first Don Donoher was fired and then the Tom Frericks era ended. Tom Frericks, for those of you who do not know, was the ULTIMATE insider in the NCAA basketball/selection process. So, the DD era ended and JOB is hired. the Frericks leaves and in hindsight it is clear that, despite being an insider, he missed a lot in the evolution of college hoops (conference affiliation, et al). so we took last gasp efforts on the conference fron and joined the MCC while we went through the coaching changes. Unfortunately, the JOB era we an abject disaster once he got his own players in there and when we had a chance to upgrade congerences - the Great Midwest - UD was in no position to do so. And, I believe UD as an institution had a hard time dealing with this at first. This is the mess that TK inherited...along with insufficient focus, facilities and resources for most of the other programs in the Athletics dept (which he is responsible for AND which needed to be improved in the NCAA climate of the 1990s). This is no small feat. TK inherited an Athletics dep with a flagship program a shell of its former self, a football program that was a national power at the Div 3 level (this was taken away from UD during this time, forcing UD to figure out how to make football viable at some D-1 level) and not much else. There is no way you can say TK has not improved the program. The guys directly responsible for hoops performance - coaches - have been fired and hired while UD fixed the ship. There have undoubtedly been bumps in the road, and who is to say (besides Dan Curran and th Board of trustees) whether he has done his job (and the criteria may not be what you think it is) or if his tenure might be getting stale? but there is no way you can say that TK has failed during his tenure when you look at all of the issues in he athletic Dept he has had to deal with. There are guys like UDDoug out there who are much more articulte than I am about this history, but it is a complicated on and one that has show real stability and promise in the past few years (soccer, vball, football, basketball, maintained graduation performance, improved facilities, et al). So i guess I am saying that we are all entitled to our opinions about why we are not where we want to be, but I personally appreciate it when arguments are made in rational, logical ways, not based on limited facts to support a pre-drawn conclusion....if that's the case, just state that you want TK gone because you simply think it's time for a change to shake it up a bit.

Nice post. States the big picture of where this University's sports program was an where it is today with the efforts of TK. We have come a long way from when I didn't bother renewing my season tickets as a senior.

We are not out anything yet. The schedule will only hurt us if the team is not capable of dominating it.

I think two things kept us out of the NCAA last year. Losing to GW and losing to LaSalle. TK had no control over the collapse of the team, it really goes in the basket of the darn untimely injuries we had last year and shows you the damage that happens when you don't have a lot of depth on the team. The depth seems to be getting deeper and the team continues to improve. Does anyone want to discuss the landmark 7-7 road record for last year? What about 14th in AP? A lot of good things are happening, and I don't see what all the huff is about the schedule. Yes it is a little disappointing, especially after last year, but the program has not earned a reputation of being a perennial contender and is not going to get the big names.

Unfortunately it only takes a few years to wreck a program but can take decades to rebuild. Some of you make it sound like we are one loss away from no post season and we months from playing any exhibition games yet.

We shall see what happens, but I see the beginning of something special at UD. We are getting there.

Those of you who like to say BG sucks and OP was so much better, think of this, after 5 years at UD Gregory is 2-2 in post season, OP was 1-1. That's twice as many games played in the post season after 5 years. BG has also had 4 out of 5 winning seasons since he took the helm and holds a .620 winning percentage. I will give OP credit for starting from scratch, but he did not leave a full cupboard when he left UD either.

I personally can't wait to see this team play this year, I don't care who it is against, I think we are going to mop this schedule up. I have to say as well, seeing Marquette on the schedule again is a beautiful thing and may be worth not having that extra away game against a big time foe.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer Nice post. States the big picture of where this University's sports program was an where it is today with the efforts of TK. We have come a long way from when I didn't bother renewing my season tickets as a senior. We are not out anything yet. The schedule will only hurt us if the team is not capable of dominating it. I think two things kept us out of the NCAA last year. Losing to GW and losing to LaSalle. TK had no control over the collapse of the team, it really goes in the basket of the darn untimely injuries we had last year and shows you the damage that happens when you don't have a lot of depth on the team. The depth seems to be getting deeper and the team continues to improve. Does anyone want to discuss the landmark 7-7 road record for last year? What about 14th in AP? A lot of good things are happening, and I don't see what all the huff is about the schedule. Yes it is a little disappointing, especially after last year, but the program has not earned a reputation of being a perennial contender and is not going to get the big names. Unfortunately it only takes a few years to wreck a program but can take decades to rebuild. Some of you make it sound like we are one loss away from no post season and we months from playing any exhibition games yet. We shall see what happens, but I see the beginning of something special at UD. We are getting there. Those of you who like to say BG sucks and OP was so much better, think of this, after 5 years at UD Gregory is 2-2 in post season, OP was 1-1. That's twice as many games played in the post season after 5 years. BG has also had 4 out of 5 winning seasons since he took the helm and holds a .620 winning percentage. I will give OP credit for starting from scratch, but he did not leave a full cupboard when he left UD either. I personally can't wait to see this team play this year, I don't care who it is against, I think we are going to mop this schedule up. I have to say as well, seeing Marquette on the schedule again is a beautiful thing and may be worth not having that extra away game against a big time foe.

It is interesting that some of the same people that say OP was a great coach despite the lack of NCAA Tournament victories under his belt at UD are pointing at TK saying how horrible he is because of the same dearth of NCAA Tourny wins.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54 It is interesting that some of the same people that say OP was a great coach despite the lack of NCAA Tournament victories under his belt at UD are pointing at TK saying how horrible he is because of the same dearth of NCAA Tourny wins.

I agree 100% with this comment. OP was here a long time and didn't win a tournament game. Yes, he deserves credit for raising UD from an embarassing state but he did not deliver any tournament wins either. If you go by tournament wins the best coach since Don Donoher was JOB.

I see the talent level increasing every year and that gives me hope, it is the only way to win 'You win with people'. To me the best players on the team last year (excluding Brob) were Chris and Marcus a freshman and a sophomore. The talent is increasing and UD will be making noise in the NCAAs as that talent becomes more mature.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[skip69]

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer Nice post. States the big picture of where this University's sports program was an where it is today with the efforts of TK. We have come a long way from when I didn't bother renewing my season tickets as a senior. We are not out anything yet. The schedule will only hurt us if the team is not capable of dominating it. I think two things kept us out of the NCAA last year. Losing to GW and losing to LaSalle. TK had no control over the collapse of the team, it really goes in the basket of the darn untimely injuries we had last year and shows you the damage that happens when you don't have a lot of depth on the team. The depth seems to be getting deeper and the team continues to improve. Does anyone want to discuss the landmark 7-7 road record for last year? What about 14th in AP? A lot of good things are happening, and I don't see what all the huff is about the schedule. Yes it is a little disappointing, especially after last year, but the program has not earned a reputation of being a perennial contender and is not going to get the big names. Unfortunately it only takes a few years to wreck a program but can take decades to rebuild. Some of you make it sound like we are one loss away from no post season and we months from playing any exhibition games yet. We shall see what happens, but I see the beginning of something special at UD. We are getting there. Those of you who like to say BG sucks and OP was so much better, think of this, after 5 years at UD Gregory is 2-2 in post season, OP was 1-1. That's twice as many games played in the post season after 5 years. BG has also had 4 out of 5 winning seasons since he took the helm and holds a .620 winning percentage. I will give OP credit for starting from scratch, but he did not leave a full cupboard when he left UD either. I personally can't wait to see this team play this year, I don't care who it is against, I think we are going to mop this schedule up. I have to say as well, seeing Marquette on the schedule again is a beautiful thing and may be worth not having that extra away game against a big time foe.

The schedule hurts the fans, no matter how well we dominate. I don't want to see us beat up on the sisters of the poor by 30 pts., .... I want to see a competitive game that brings out the best in both teams, a game where I can get interested in, cheer for the Flyers, and be proud to be a fan and alumnus (and pays thru the nose to be one!). I wrote an email to TK before the seating program was finalized and if an all Catholic conf was being worked on. He stated that the Big East realignment was not imminent (which would free up some of the catholic schools) and that the A10 was the best fit for us.

That being said, the home schedule this year is a big turnoff to me (a long time season ticket holder). Yes, the days of our REAL long time competitors (ND, Marquette, DePaul, Louisville, etc) will never return and has been downgraded to Xavier (who rarely beat us before the Great Midwest Conference/O'Brien days). But this SOS is ridiculous. And, we have seen that we consistently stub our toe each year against weak conference foes, so we have no margin for error (as others have agreed) and therefore will probably be 19 years without an NCAA win barring winning the conf. tourney, which as we've seen lately is one and done. Even if tourney champs, would we be prepared to take on anyone in the NCAA as a high seed and win a game? High odds??????

I don't hate TK and I support BG, but clearly this should have been a better home schedule. And, even though our overall athletic picture is better, I am not convinced that we needed the significant spending .... especially if the A10 is our best fit and no better options are available. I know that you must plan for the future, but be practical and bring the flagship sport into prominence again. This schedule doesn't cut it. OSU football is in the Big 10 and therefore the best Ohio kids want to go there. But, they always schedule one major game each year - not always at home - against a top opponent (Texas, USC) that I am sure the players look forward to outside of the conference. That makes their competitive juices flow ... what does CW have to look forward to? Would Payne be excited to come here and play Bethune whomever?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[NorthwestFlyer]

O'Brien took Donoher's players to the second round, so if BG doesn't get credit for making the NCAA, O'Brien should get no credit whatsoever. The team completely collapsed to a record I don't even want to think about while he was at the reigns.

Skip, I totally see your point. But putting another top 25 team on the schedule is probably going to result in one less home game. This program is in a catch 22 state, or you could call it growing pains. We see the talent on the floor, the fan backing, and the vibrant history and know this program should be capable of running with the big dogs. But we are holding onto reputation that no one remembers outside of Dayton and it has been a long time since we have been a perennial contender.

Last year TK was a scheduling genius and we made it to number 4 in the RPI. This year it is complete crap if you read every one's outrage. It won't be the same as having Pitt come, but we still get at least one top 25 OOC team on the schedule. We get George Mason and Miami at the Arena, and I am not so excited about it, but you can't look past Marshall. Although inconsistent they played some very good ball last year.

Hold onto those tickets, this year maybe be a downer, but next year Creighton will be coming back and I bet TK will get some better series going that we would all like to see. It would help if we can win on the schedule we have this year. Those tickets you have may be a little hard to come by in a few years.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by skip69 Even if tourney champs, would we be prepared to take on anyone in the NCAA as a high seed and win a game? High odds?????? OSU football is in the Big 10 and therefore the best Ohio kids want to go there. But, they always schedule one major game each year - not always at home - against a top opponent (Texas, USC) that I am sure the players look forward to outside of the conference. That makes their competitive juices flow ... what does CW have to look forward to? Would Payne be excited to come here and play Bethune whomever?

(1) Why wouldn't they be prepared? If they are good enough to win the A-10 Tourney they would be good enough to take on a 6 or 7 seed in the NCAA.

(2) So far, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Marquette, and Auburn, assuming you are talking only about non-conference games.

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic BB33, you show your age and ignorance. Mind you, "ignorance" is not an insult. It is a term describing lack of knowledge. When TK took over as AD, UD had success in Men's Basketball and on a smaller scale, Football. There was nothing else to speak of and Men's Basketball was on the decline as the game was advancing past Donaher, Frericks, et al. When TK came in, he cleaned house. Who survived the cleaning? Mike Kelly, because he demanded excellence from his teams and knew how to win. Some mistakes were made, most notably the hiring of JOB as Men's Basketball Coach. Unfortunately, a high profile mistake that cost us in many ways beyond the basketball court. When I started at UD 18 years ago, a guy living across the hall was UD's first scholarship men's soccer player. Volleyball scholarships? That suggestion would have brought a roar of laughter. As Smitch mentioned, look at where we are now. I say 'we' as in "We Are UD." 'We' are not just Men's Basketball. To say that TK has "one job to focus on" is an insult to a couple hundred student athletes. Yes, Men's Basketball is the fuel that powers the athletic machine, but the efficiency of that machine has grown by leaps and bounds under TK's leadership and is turning out some very successful and very competitive teams and individuals. I suggest focusing your arguments on the few short years of UD Men's Basketball firsthand knowledge that you possess because as soon as you expand your argument, your ignorance (i.e. lack of knowledge) is very evident. I suppose I could have sent this as a PM, but there are surely others on this board who could benefit from the same advice.

Please don't blame TK for JB that was all Frericks- he fired Donaher and then was too busy at the NCAA tourney to be bothered interviewing coaches. Huggie Bear wanted the job but Tom was too busy to talk to him. I believe that one month period Tom did more to hurt UD basketball as he sent us down the tubes. He had too big a head in the end - he was a NCAA bigwig.

[Lunk]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Huggie Bear wanted the job but Tom was too busy to talk to him.

And I believe that we can all thank God for that.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by rollo Why, why, why ohhhhgreat tman did the MSU AD hang up on Kissell? That's what we want to have summarized. Nobody on this site, except maybe BB33, believes that Kissell took the call and immediately said 'no'. Nobody in UD's position would turn down an opportunity to play a Big 10 team at home with no strings attached. Obviously you are leaving out alot of information....and doing so either out of (a) ignorance (b) hatred. What did Kissell demand and why? Did he insist that the MSU football team also play at Welcome Stadium?? Did Kissell insist that MSU play here 3 consecutive years? Did he insist on playing at MSU the following year and was rebuffed??? Did MSU want to be paid handsomely (that's the rumor I heard looong ago) to come to UD, in which case Kissel may have done the right thing!?! Your 'doom and gloom, take my word as fact, I know it all but can't/won't debate or offer facts' approach to discussing Kissell sounds more and more like Al Gore with every post. BTW....I didn't mean for that to sound like a compliment . That the conversation between the AD's took place is probably factual. That the MSU AD said 'forget it' is feasible....but I'm dying to know why he would do so as well as why Kissell would turn down a one way game with MSU at UD Arena. I'm also betting that it didn't happen.

Maybe the MSU AD demanded that TK deliver 100 Catholic virgins to the locker room. TK either said no because a) it was immoral or b) he knew he couldn't find that many on campus.

The point being, as rollo said, it's entirely possible that turning it down was the right thing to do. Maybe there's a reason only WSU would accept the deal.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Iguomaniac]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Huggie Bear wanted the job but Tom was too busy to talk to him.

I don't think he was too busy to talk to Huggins. From what I read, he was a candidate for the job, but they ended up passing on him because Bro. Fitz or someone in the administration didn't like they way he treated his players when they went to watch one of his games. Huggins tried to get Gerry Faust (UD alum and head football coach at Akron when Huggins was the basketball coach there) to recommend him, but Faust said he didn't think Huggins would be a good fit for UD.

[longtimefan]

I don't remember it ever being reported that MSU had offered this game to UD. The first I ever heard this was from tman. The story I heard was that MSU wanted a game in Dayton and wanted an easy win, so they contacted WSU.

Now, UConn contacted UD because they wanted a game in Dayton for their women. It was reported that TK asked for a home-and-home with the men in return, and UConn declined and then contacted WSU. Maybe tman has his games mixed up.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I don't remember it ever being reported that MSU had offered this game to UD. The first I ever heard this was from tman. The story I heard was that MSU wanted a game in Dayton and wanted an easy win, so they contacted WSU. Now, UConn contacted UD because they wanted a game in Dayton for their women. It was reported that TK asked for a home-and-home with the men in return, and UConn declined and then contacted WSU. Maybe tman has his games mixed up.

I remember MSU contacting both UD and WSU according to the newspaper accounts. They wanted a game in Dayton for the Andre Hutson victory tour but they didn't care where it was played. They really only wanted a one game and done deal. UD wanted more so they went to WSU and got an easier deal.
The UConn deal was the Tamika Williams victory tour.
The bottom line in both cases those were special rare cases of local high school athletes returning for one game that you can't build a schedule around anyway.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Huggie Bear wanted the job but Tom was too busy to talk to him.

Where do you people get such incredilbly ridiculous information??? Too busy?? I knew Mr. Frericks from my h.s days. His secretary, Mary, told me that I was the only student who he had an a open door policy with and I abused that policy quite often. He was a great, moral and powerful man. Having to fire his friend Donoher may have been the most difficult task he ever had, including fighting cancer. There's a reason why they named the old PAC the Frericks Center and it's not because he was a baboon.

As for the Huggins to UD story, here's an exerpt from Jerry Faust's book, The Golden Dream, that you may find interesting as it's the conversation Jerry had with Bob when approached about putting a phone call into UD (Frericks) about their head coaching job. I guarantee it's more factual than the "he was too busy" junk you believe.

"Bob", I said, "I won't do that. I'll be right up front with you. I'll help you with any job but the Dayton job. That's my alma mater. You're a great basketball coach but I don't like the way you handle kids. I don't want you at my university."

He further goes on to say this regarding Bob's unique vocabulary:

(Bob) has his philosophy and I have mine. I just don't want that at my alma mater.


"Too busy".......shaddup!

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Bill McPeek]

Rollo, you don't have to convince me as to what kind of man Tom Frericks was. I worked for the athletic department during my UD days (67-71) and I had then and have now nothing but the highest respect for the man. He treated me wonderfully and, as you said, a man of great moral integrity.

[UACFlyer]

Longtimer's and Furio's recollections of UConn's desire for a game at the Arena may reveal something about TK. Quite possibly he is just a tad too independent.

It is true that a UConn women's tradition is to schedule a "homecoming game" as close as possible to the home town of its stars, usually in their junior or senior season. At the time Tamika Willams was a starter on what many regard as the best women's team in history.
When UConn comes-a-callin' the "blessed" host school always jumps at the chance to showcase for its fans one of the top women's programs in the country. Often a home-and-home is arranged with the host playing a game in CT.

Not Dayton! Instead we imposed a set of terms/conditions, a no compromise counter proposal, if you will: "Sure, we'll play you, but only if you throw in a home and home for the men's teams". First, there is absolutely no connection,...none,....between men's and women's scheduling at UConn. Second, the UConn men are as likely to come to the Arena as the Boston Celtics are. So essentially TK was rejecting what just about any other school would have considered a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Wright State jumped at the chance. UConn slaughtered WSU in front of a record crowd;...so what, That UConn team slaughtered all its OOC opponents. UC would have murdered the Flyers as well.

Now Dayton women's BB is much improved from the time UConn assked for a favor, about 5-7 years ago. Suppose Dayton had obliged;.....then they owe us one, right?. Flash ahead to 2008, 2009, 2010, or whatever. UD women's BB is now at an entirely different level. Jim J. is now the UD coach; Jim and Geno Auriemma are friends from Jim's days as Providence coach.

What do you think UConn would say if TK had done UC the favor they requested a few years back,....and he now called Geno and said something to the effect, "Coach Auriemma, your good friend Jim J. and I would love to schedule a home and home with the UConn women, how about it"? Get the picture?

Dissing UConn was a mistake, a big one. At the time UConn was mightly annoyed. A series with a program like UConn does wonders for recruiting; and the crowd at the Arena would have been a sight to behold.

I wonder how many other opportunities we missed by being less than gracious when approached by a big name program? Indeed, it might not be a bad idea for the UD administration to keep track of Dayton area stars, men and women, that go far away from home to play. The notion of "homecoming games" is not unique to UConn. Indeed, instead of waiting to be approached, we could take the initiative and propose a homecoming game in Dayton as a means of enticing a name program to consider playing at the Arena.

[Furio]

UACFlyer these opportunities missed are only going to occur about once every 10 to 15 years. In fact since Tamika Williams I can't think of a similar situation arising.
It just doens't happen that often. What long term benefit has WSU obtained from getting either of those games? Nothing. The coaching staff and athletic staffs at WSU have turned over several times since then.
Also the really big high school stars either don't go to college or like Cook at Ohio St are gone before a game could be arranged. And OSU wouldn't do it anyway.

[College B-Ball Fan]

HUH??? UAC, you sure have a vivid imagination? I think last time we played UConn's mens team several years we beat'em--I think--if TK doesn't feel beholden to them I'm OK with that! I don't see how you could have taken what Furio and Longtimer posted and in good faith tried to somehow twist it once again into TK making a major blunder that has contributed to out scheduling "problems" if you call them that!


I for one am glad that Ms. Williams and Mr. Hutson didn't get to showcase there skills or there teams at the arena. If they wanted to play at the arena, we all know what they could've done! Needless to say, I don't think that TK or most fans would consider letting Tamika play at the arena a "once in a lifetime opprtunity".

Again, please note that I have NO animosity towards either of these kids----BUT I for one don't think we owe any former Dayton area high school player(s) who wants to return home so his/her friends/parents/coaches can see him/her a game at the arena! Let'em play at WSU.

Truthfully, how can you rationally/logically say "dissing UConn was a mistake, a big one" when you truely have no idea what was discussed, etc. Some of you guys really seem to have it in for TK--why else would you make up and spin all of these fairy tales?

[Chris R]

A couple points to clarify the circumstances surrounding the UConn womens game:

UConn played at Wright State during a period when not only WSU stunk, but also UD basketball was at a Division-II competition level. Tamika Williams was recruited by Clemette Haskins and that posture made Dayton a somewhat uncomfortable option for Williams when Wright State was readily available. Ive heard several stories of the tactics Haskins used to woo Williams, and the sour tastes it left. To think Tamika herself didnt have a card to play in the scheduling of either UD or WSU is to stray even further from reality.

Second, the UConn team with Williams was perhaps one of the greatest womens teams ever assembled with Swin Cash among others. Then ended up making an honest joke of Wright State womens basketball at the time and absolutely nothing good came from it. Nobody came to see WSU despite the 6000-7000 in attendance. It was like watching the Harlem Globetrotters against the Washington Generals. Only worse. Anybody who can find a silver lining in that embarrassing lathering needs to put down the rose-colored glasses.

I believe from conversations at the time, Dayton felt very little good would come from getting beat by 70 points (UConn was doing this regularly) on the UD Arena home court to a national title contender when even the very thought of UD having the requisite basketball tools to look like they were even coachable was not in the plans. The Flyer teams back then were extremely marginal, poorly coached, relatively untalented minus a couple keeps like Christ Hester, and were simply not prepared to represent UD in a fashion befitting our fine institution against that particular team UConn had.

The UConn game did NOTHING for WSU. So the empirical data is beyond question. To think such a game would have benefitted UD in any better fashion is to presume far too much and give far too much credit to the UD womens basketball program at the time.

Dayton is not a place for worldbeaters to come and entertain local yocals for two hours in a Tamika Williams victory tour while making a mockery of UD womens basketball. We had other fish to fry long before ever even beginning to entertain the thought of putting a semi-competent team on the floor that would at least make UConn work hard for the opening tip. I can only thank God the UD powers to be saw what I saw and passed on this "opportunity".

A much better example is when former national champion Purdue came to Dayton and needed a last second shot from their All American to win. Dayton was far more respectable and had the tools to give a nationally ranked team a solid effort on the Arena home floor. The UD admins new the timing was right and brought Purdue in.

[UACFlyer]

Furio,.....I recall reading a comment made by a female HS player who chose Holy Cross. When asked, "Why Holy Cross?", she said she was considering two other schools; but when she saw UConn on the Holy Cross schedule, "that did it".

Also, unlike the men, women stay for four years, meaning there is nearly always opportunity for a homecoming game.

Another consideration: As a general practice, treating people well pays dividends in the long run. Indeed, there is always turnover in the coaching ranks, quite a bit, in fact. So, a favor or gracious act while a coach is at school A will be remembered years later when that coach is now at school B.

Scheduling difficulty is a major topic at UD, for the men especially, but also for the women. A school in that bind is in no position to be overly independent or "hard to get" when approached for a favor. Nothing bad can happen by being "nice";.....sometimes good things happen.

[Bill McPeek]

I think you are way off base, UACFlyer.

[UACFlyer]

Off base;......why?

[Furio]

The UD women schedule last year included at the UD Arena:
UC, Indiana, and Clemson. BCS schools will come to play the womens team.
Link to last years schedule: http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/...ched-2007.html

TK is the AD for both men's and women's basketball last time I checked.
Chris R analogy of the Harlem Globetrotters toying with and embrassing the Washington General is exactly what WSU got with no benefit afterwards.

	Chris Rieman CHRIS RIEMAN, PUBLISHER Founder and publisher of UDPride.com. Writer, photographer, videographer, coder, grip, comedian, auto aficionado, and lifelong Flyer fan.

[UACFlyer]

Fan support for the Flyers is amazing. If the women reach the top level of the A10 consistently and are competive against the top programs attendance could average in the 5000 range. That means substantial revenue and great entertainment.

True, some BCS teams will play at the Arena; but not UConn, Tennessee, LSU, Stanford,...not the cream of the crop.

WSU may have realized no benefit at all from playing UConn; but that does not mean UD would not have. Let's be honest and objective, please. Suppose UD had accommodated UConn a few years ago;.....if today Jim Jabir called his good friend Geno Auriemma requesting a series, even a two-for-one, do you believe Auriemma would agree or not? UD did UConn a favor, Jim and Geno have been friends for years;......honestly, do you think Geno would blow Jim off with an excuse? This is women's basketball; not men's!

Now, with UConn on UD's schedule for two (or three) years is that likely to influence other top programs to play a series with the Flyers? Do bears sleep in the woods? Being accomodating and gracious at every opportunity can do no harm and may well pay off in the future.

I see nothing illogical or improbable in my scenario. Indeed, I think it highly probable that UConn would gladly return the favor, especially with Jim J. now at Dayton. UConn at the Arena is the type of thing that helps elevate the women's program, which is what TK and Jim J. are trying to do.

Our handling of UConn was an opportunity lost. I'd bet quite a bit that UD would handle the situation differently if it had a "do-over".

[Chris R]

If you think Geno Auriemma is going to give Dayton a 1 for 2 because Jim Jabir onced coached in the Big East, I want some of whatever it is you are smoking. The Big East is littered with DOZENS of coaches who once coached in that league, got annihilated, and now find themselves coaching elsewhere. Geno isnt about to hand out favors to any of them let alone Jim. Shoot, not even the best of men have that many favors to dole out. How do I know this? Because if it was the case it would have happened by now -- if not by Geno then by Vivian Stringer. Or Muffet McGraw (minus Megan Duffy). None of them walk into the office feeling like they owe Jim a thing, nevermind the graveyard full of other coaches who once spent 3-4 years in that league and got spit out.

Theres a legitimate difference when fans critique whats on the floor and when they make guesswork of whats going on behind closed doors in administrations. You can see the basketball. Its right in front of you. But the work of ADs and grips and support staffs are not in the same public domain. The best fans can do is make reasonable assumptions, but they are still just that -- assumptions and nothing more.

Just like I have no idea what goes on at your office when the door is shut, you have no idea what goes on behind mine. You see the web site, but that's not all there is to making it all magically happen. Theres no Easy Button I push.

In the same token, I think we'd all learn a lot and find many of our assumptions shattered if we followed an AD around for a week to see how the trees really shook in the wind...

[Bill McPeek]

UAC, I think that College B-Ball fan and Chris summed things up very well. For some reason you seem to have placed UConn on some godly pedestal. Both their men's and women's program have won national titles but let's not make them to be the end all of college hoops.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek UAC, I think that College B-Ball fan and Chris summed things up very well. For some reason you seem to have placed UConn on some godly pedestal. Both their men's and women's program have won national titles but let's not make them to be the end all of college hoops.

I agree with those who disagree with UAC. Bill, UAC lives there and has UConn season tickets. I believe he does have them on some kind of a pedestal. That UConn/WSU "game" was a total joke. I see no good that could have come from such a game. And, as someone said, if Tamika (or Andre) wanted to play in Dayton so badly, they could have gone there. Why should we be gracious hosts to someone who felt they were too good for us. (Yea, you start to get ornery when you get old.)

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by rollo Where do you people get such incredilbly ridiculous information??? Too busy?? I knew Mr. Frericks from my h.s days. His secretary, Mary, told me that I was the only student who he had an a open door policy with and I abused that policy quite often. He was a great, moral and powerful man. Having to fire his friend Donoher may have been the most difficult task he ever had, including fighting cancer. There's a reason why they named the old PAC the Frericks Center and it's not because he was a baboon. As for the Huggins to UD story, here's an exerpt from Jerry Faust's book, The Golden Dream, that you may find interesting as it's the conversation Jerry had with Bob when approached about putting a phone call into UD (Frericks) about their head coaching job. I guarantee it's more factual than the "he was too busy" junk you believe. "Bob", I said, "I won't do that. I'll be right up front with you. I'll help you with any job but the Dayton job. That's my alma mater. You're a great basketball coach but I don't like the way you handle kids. I don't want you at my university." He further goes on to say this regarding Bob's unique vocabulary: (Bob) has his philosophy and I have mine. I just don't want that at my alma mater. "Too busy".......shaddup!

Well you are sure full of yourself. I was just saying what was reported in the Dayton Daily News at the time that Huggie Bear had visited UD and Tom did not have time for him. My compliant is not Tom the Man it is the job he had done at the time. My beef if Tom was so great how could he hire O'Brien? Just because he had a famous father-in law? He did a lot of great thing but this was not one of them!

I'm sorry I can't quote a book article to make myself feel more important.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[THirt]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Well you are sure full of yourself. I was just saying what was reported in the Dayton Daily News at the time that Huggie Bear had visited UD and Tom did not have time for him. My compliant is not Tom the Man it is the job he had done at the time. My beef if Tom was so great how could he hire O'Brien? Just because he had a famous father-in law? He did a lot of great thing but this was not one of them! I'm sorry I can't quote a book article to make my statments accurate.

I fixed your post for you.

[Medford]

Wow, this thread is all over the place. Way too much to delve into it all, and its no like I"m going to change any minds w/ my opinions, but...

I believe the Celtics have played at UD arena before. An exhibition game vs the Pacers or Cavs (there was a period of 2-4 years when there was always 1 NBA preseason game, I think I remember the Celtics being the opponent for either the Cavs or the Pacers one year). Therefor, I'm expecting UConn to show up on the home slate soon, just as UAC flyer promised

2nd, a big reason Huggins was not hired here was the way he treated his players on the bench. UD had a representive sitting directly behind Akron's bench and was amazed/turned off by the way Huggins screamed and yelled at his players. Aside from the Faust Story, Huggins made other calls trying to figure out why he couldn't get an interview for UD. This was one of the reasons UD wouldn't interview him. Its also another reason Huggins hated UD so much; no body was going to tell him the best way to motivate his own kids.

Huggins won a lot of games while at UC, and is no doubt a great coach, but one thing I'll always wonder is would UD have let him recruit the questionable characters (Dontonio Wingfield fresh off of trashing his mothers apartment comes to mind) or the high number of JUCO's while at UD? I honestly don't know, but as I look back on the UC run while Huggins was there, I think of a team that won big early, then often fizzled out early in the NCAA each year. Sure it beats what UD did on the court, but was it really worth it for all the mud slung at the basketball program & school? Would I really want to defend UD as much as UC fans had to defend UC? Would Huggins had to have gone the same route at UD as he did at UC? UC was pretty much post Jim O'Brien era UD when Huggins game in. They'd been bad for a long time. There was more talent and a bigger national name for UD when JOB took over, than there was at UC when Huggins took over.

Perhaps the story for UD would have been slightly different the story Huggins wrote at UC. There definently would have been some fun basketball during that period, but w/o question in my mind, I'd rather root for what UD is doing now, than what UC came to be under Huggins. Winning is great, and what we all root for; why we tune in, but I can only with stand so much "dirt" before the winning is no longer quite worth it.

[UACFlyer]

Re the UConn-UD saga, I fell victim to the "submit" button, i.e., after reading what I thought was the last post on the subject I typed a response. But, while I was typing a few more thoughtful posts appeared, which I had not read before hitting the "submit" box.

Well I must be wrong because everyone thinks so.....nah!

I am aware that UD's program at the time was not close to what it is today,....and that a game with UConn would not have been pretty. TK knew that, yet, unless all the media reporting at the time was in error, he was willing to let the girls take a beating if only the UConn men would agree to a series. Perhaps that's not true.

As for Geno or other BE coaches doing "favors" for former BE coaches; I agree that doesn't happen regularly. But, in the scenario I created Geno would have been RETURNING a favor UD did for him. The prior UD favor plus Geno's connection with Jim J. would have done it, I think.

Another point or two. While I have been a UConn season Tx holder for 20+ years, men and women, when the Flyer men played UConn a few years ago, from the opening tip I was I was going nuts for my Flyers,...and at risk to my life, watching TV is a room full of UConn fans. When it comes to choosing between UConn and Dayton;....no contest!

As for the suggestion that I'm trying to nail Ted Kissell at every opportunity;....here's what I think of Ted. UD has had two iconic ADs, Harry B. and Tom F., both good men. But their era was small time compared to the changes of the last ~20 years. When TK arrived UD didn't have anything that could be described as a "program". It was a disaster, an embarrassment.

Under TK's leadership Dayton now has a solid, broad based Div 1 athletics program with superb facilities. Ted Kissell may not be an "icon", yet; but he is the most accomplished, most successful, most effective AD Dayton has ever had. When TK decides it's time for retirement I will be one sad guy. I think he's great.

But, that doesn't mean I agree with every single position Ted has ever taken.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Re the UConn-UD saga, I fell victim to the "submit" button, i.e., after reading what I thought was the last post on the subject I typed a response. But, while I was typing a few more thoughtful posts appeared, which I had not read before hitting the "submit" box. Well I must be wrong because everyone thinks so.....nah! I am aware that UD's program at the time was not close to what it is today,....and that a game with UConn would not have been pretty. TK knew that, yet, unless all the media reporting at the time was in error, he was willing to let the girls take a beating if only the UConn men would agree to a series. Perhaps that's not true.

TK made an offer to UConn that he knew they would refuse.
The damage of losing by 70 pts on your homefloor doesn't stop with just one loss on your record it can linger for several games to recover from.

[John C.]

Let’s get something straight here and everyone on this board should know this: the home schedule is what allows UD to have intercollegiate sports of any kind. Without it, there would be no football, no volleyball, no track, no baseball. There is not enough support for any of these programs to make it on their own. The Athletic Department has to at least break even. As Ted told me a number of years ago, the Athletic Department is like a business and has to be run that way.

This year’s home schedule was probably the best in years and what did it get us: the NIT. Believe it or not, UD cannot get into the NCAA by playing good teams in the pre conference season and stinking it up in conference play. We were all dreaming when we thought that UD could get into the NCAA after an 8-8 in conference season. This ain’t the BCS.

Tman hasn’t made any good points that haven’t been stated here numerous times. BinnieBombs just states flame throwing rants which bring little to the table. This is a conversation that has gotten too old. I don’t care if there isn’t anything to talk about. This conversation about Kissell has gotten stale. When he retires, he will be remembered as the guy that saved the athletic program at UD, pure and simple. Just because you stay in the same job doesn’t mean that you are not good at it. Just win on the floor and we wouldn’t have this conversation.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Furio TK made an offer to UConn that he knew they would refuse. The damage of losing by 70 pts on your homefloor doesn't stop with just one loss on your record it can linger for several games to recover from.

How true. In 87-88 we started 7-1, including a victory at Ohio State. We then got hammered by Oklahoma 151-99, and never recovered. We lost 6 games in a row at that point and finished the season losing 17 of our last 23 games, a 6-17 stretch that left us at 13-18. That game could be considered the beginning of the end for Donoher. I will always despise Billy Tubbs for what he did to us in that game. He pressed and ran and pressed and ran and never let up. He apparently was still upset about our win over them in the 83-84 NCAA Tourney. Billy, no matter what you do you will never be able to erase that game from the NCAA record books.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Avid Flyer]

The biggest and probably only real factor in UConn's decision to play in Dayton was Tamika Williams. She had and has no love for UD period end of report. Are her feelings legit, don't know but it was most certainly the final word. Just because UConn contacted UD doesn't mean TW was interested. Its sad, TW was a greaet talent that got away but she wanted no part of UD.....ever.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 I'm sorry I can't quote a book article to make myself feel more important.

Can you quote anything?? Homer Simpson? Anyone?? Anything?? How about that DDN (lol) article you read 14 years ago?? If the DDN is your only and most credible source, then I rest my case.

Feel free to get back to the Cartoon Network. That Phineus sure is funny!

[udflyerhoops2]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Huggie Bear wanted the job but Tom was too busy to talk to him. I believe that one month period Tom did more to hurt UD basketball as he sent us down the tubes.

I would gladly trade all the kumbaya good feelings for one sniff at the Final Four. I don't care about all that happy stuff. If we had teams with players like Steve Logan, Danny Fortson, Darnell Burton, Damon Flint, Nick Van Exel, and Kenyon Martin wouldn't this team be more well-respected than it is now. Anything less than a yes would be insane.
Besides, look what happened to UC since Huggins left.
I hated him when he was at UC but I would have loved to cheer for him @ UD!

Originally Posted by Lunk And I believe that we can all thank God for that.

God has nothing to do with it. Winning championships should be the goal of TK and the whole athletic department. Basketball being the most important. Why should BG be the only administrator that even cares about winning anything. TK should have the same vision as BG so far as where the Men's basketball program is going. You know BG doesn't ask for schedules like this (schedules that keep the team from being prepared for the A-10 even though it will be a down year). I believe in BG. Not so much in TK.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer The biggest and probably only real factor in UConn's decision to play in Dayton was Tamika Williams. She had and has no love for UD period end of report. Are her feelings legit, don't know but it was most certainly the final word. Just because UConn contacted UD doesn't mean TW was interested. Its sad, TW was a greaet talent that got away but she wanted no part of UD.....ever.

Tamika could have been a difference maker at UD in the mode of Chris Wright and Kristen Daugherty (who both helped pull in more excellent players). UD wanted her very badly and did everything possible to make that clear

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[Big D]

Originally Posted by Chris R The UConn game did NOTHING for WSU. So the empirical data is beyond question. To think such a game would have benefitted UD in any better fashion is to presume far too much and give far too much credit to the UD womens basketball program at the time.

That is not true. The UConn game was a sellout for WSU. It would have been a sellout or nrear sellout for UD as well. Women's basketball like most college sports outside of football and men's basketball loses money and are burdens on their schools athletic department. That sellout single handedly doubled WSU's women's basketballs attendance that year and helped them cover most of their own expenses for once. You guys like to talk about why UD has to schedule so many home men's basketball games a year to cover expenses for the entire athletic department. Why turn down a chance to let your women's team cover some of their own expenses for once?

FYI, tman may be wrong about many things but he is right about TK turning down a contract with MSU. UD wanted to schedule MSU to a home and home series. MSU was only offering a 2 for 1 series. TK said no, so MSU offered it to WSU. There was a DDN article published after WSU beat MSU that stated as much. If you don't believe that, go to the DDN website and pay $5 to read the archived article.

[UACFlyer]

Of course, we all know that men's BB essentially pays for everything else. But why is that so? Why does that have to be the case? Why does the UD administration insist that the athletics division has to be run like a self-sustaining business?

Duquesne, to name just one A10 school, has an athletics division that offers an array of men's/women's programs comparable to UD's. The DU men average about 1500 per game. What does that pay for?

Now DU is playing scholarship football forgodssake! Clearly athletics finances are viewed in a different light by the administartion at DU than at UD.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by Big D That sellout single handedly doubled WSU's women's basketballs attendance that year and helped them cover most of their own expenses for once.

That and a cup of coffee might get you 2 seconds on the news with Jack Pohl. When I look back on WSU womens basketball, that game brings back a lot of memories, but turning the corner isnt one of them, unless it was the corner of Col Glenn Highway and back to the dorms for a cold shower.

[AdamtheFlyer]

Originally Posted by Furio The UD women schedule last year included at the UD Arena: UC, Indiana, and Clemson. BCS schools will come to play the womens team. Link to last years schedule: http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/...ched-2007.html

And two of those three teams are awful. If you want BCS teams to come, we could schedule Northwestern and Oregon State.

I'll take Mason, Miami, and Creighton.

[ud69]

Originally Posted by Big D That is not true. The UConn game was a sellout for WSU.

If this was a sellout there must have been a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats. Box says attendance was 4,762. Talk about an ugly boxscore! See points off turnovers.


http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/W...tats/WBB14.HTM

[FlyerYouBetcha]

Is it just me? I feel better coming to UDPride now without BB33 and tman.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Big D That is not true. The UConn game was a sellout for WSU. It would have been a sellout or nrear sellout for UD as well. Women's basketball like most college sports outside of football and men's basketball loses money and are burdens on their schools athletic department. That sellout single handedly doubled WSU's women's basketballs attendance that year and helped them cover most of their own expenses for once. You guys like to talk about why UD has to schedule so many home men's basketball games a year to cover expenses for the entire athletic department. Why turn down a chance to let your women's team cover some of their own expenses for once? FYI, tman may be wrong about many things but he is right about TK turning down a contract with MSU. UD wanted to schedule MSU to a home and home series. MSU was only offering a 2 for 1 series. TK said no, so MSU offered it to WSU. There was a DDN article published after WSU beat MSU that stated as much. If you don't believe that, go to the DDN website and pay $5 to read the archived article.

Start talking about WSU and Big D comes out of hibernation.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by ud69 If this was a sellout there must have been a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats. Box says attendance was 4,762. Talk about an ugly boxscore! See points off turnovers. http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/W...tats/WBB14.HTM

Also of the 4,762 how many actually paid a dime for the ticket?
500?

You can't pay bills with complementary tickets.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ud69 If this was a sellout there must have been a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats. Box says attendance was 4,762. Talk about an ugly boxscore! See points off turnovers. http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/W...tats/WBB14.HTM

Hey, WSU held them under 100 (and scored 39 whole points).

[Fudd]

I knew where this thread was going to go when I saw the name on the first post.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Fudd I knew where this thread was going to go when I saw the name on the first post.

Just read post no 127 for the highlight you can skip all the rest as it is all old news.

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by rollo Can you quote anything?? Homer Simpson? Anyone?? Anything?? How about that DDN (lol) article you read 14 years ago?? If the DDN is your only and most credible source, then I rest my case. Feel free to get back to the Cartoon Network. That Phineus sure is funny!

Getting under the old farts skin am I? Just tell me after Tom fired DD who had he lined up to take his place....oh yeah the great JOB. The only reason JOB did half way decent in the first couple of years is the great job DD did on teaching the fundamentals.

Spew all you want about how great Tom was (and as a whole he was) but the DD firing and JOB hiring was not Toms finest hour...it was a crippling blow to the program.

I was watching the military channel. What home are you in that you get the Cartoon Network?

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud69 If this was a sellout there must have been a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats. Box says attendance was 4,762. Talk about an ugly boxscore! See points off turnovers. http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/W...tats/WBB14.HTM

I just love watching people flee for the hills when the facts are presented. It's more entertaining than watching a 50 point blowout.

[smitch425]

Originally Posted by rollo Feel free to get back to the Cartoon Network. That Phineus sure is funny!

If your talking about Phineas and Ferb, that is on the Disney Channel not Cartoon Network.

Also for those of you with kids, the Cartoon Network Get Animated Tour is coming to The Greene next saturday from 1pm-5pm. Great event to get kids active and off the couch. This year you get to meet Ben 10 and Chowder.Okay, everyone...back to your arguing...

[rollo]

Oops. I guess I've been too busy reading books looking for good quotes and facts to back up my opinions to the notice channel difference. Sorry. In the future I'll try and use my memory of DDN articles to gather facts.




Chowder!! At the Greene? If my kids hear about this, I'll meet you there.

[Lunk]

Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2 I would gladly trade all the kumbaya good feelings for one sniff at the Final Four. I don't care about all that happy stuff. If we had teams with players like Steve Logan, Danny Fortson, Darnell Burton, Damon Flint, Nick Van Exel, and Kenyon Martin wouldn't this team be more well-respected than it is now. Anything less than a yes would be insane. Besides, look what happened to UC since Huggins left. I hated him when he was at UC but I would have loved to cheer for him @ UD!

Not me. I would not trade where we are right now to have gotten a "sniff" in the past if it meant that we would have to sacrifice the integrity of our program and our school to do so. If Huggins' job was only to win games, then I guess he did well. However, I believe that the coach should be more responsible for helping these young men to be the best athletes, students, and school representatives that they can be. Huggins didn't give a rat's arse about that. Oh, and by the time he left, he had made UC the punch line of jokes about criminals, poor scholarship among players, and how things should NOT be done.

God has nothing to do with it. Winning championships should be the goal of TK and the whole athletic department. Basketball being the most important. Why should BG be the only administrator that even cares about winning anything. TK should have the same vision as BG so far as where the Men's basketball program is going. You know BG doesn't ask for schedules like this (schedules that keep the team from being prepared for the A-10 even though it will be a down year). I believe in BG. Not so much in TK.

Believe it or not, basketball is not the only concern of the athletic department. Nor should it be. As many posters who are smarter than me have already pointed out, Ted's contributions to UD have allowed NUMEROUS sports teams to achieve success like they have not done in the past. (Soccer and volleyball stand out as two of them.) While basketball is certainly the most important sport in terms of revenue generation, I don't think that the "vision" that Ted has is different from that of Brian G.

But Brian G. is not the only coach employed under Ted so Ted has to have a larger vision that will benefit UD an institution, not just as a basketball program.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I just love watching people flee for the hills when the facts are presented. It's more entertaining than watching a 50 point blowout.

And, as Furio pointed pointed out, many of those tickets were freebies.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Of course, we all know that men's BB essentially pays for everything else. But why is that so? Why does that have to be the case? Why does the UD administration insist that the athletics division has to be run like a self-sustaining business? Duquesne, to name just one A10 school, has an athletics division that offers an array of men's/women's programs comparable to UD's. The DU men average about 1500 per game. What does that pay for? Now DU is playing scholarship football forgodssake! Clearly athletics finances are viewed in a different light by the administartion at DU than at UD.

This is a great point which is rarely made. It appears it is the administration that puts TK in the position of having to schedule all these home games for budget purposes. So are the numerous buy games really TK's fault?

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Whacker]

So when UD goes 12-3 in the non-con, 12-4 in the conference and 1-1 in the A-10 tourney to finish 25-8, with a top 3 finish in the league and an at-large NCAA bid I will re-visit this thread for a few chuckles.

I get it that season ticket holders are frustrated not to have any "big" games to look forward to. We pay a lot of $$ and should reasonably expect at least 1 game you circle on the schedule in the Summer as a NFW am I missing that one.

I don't get the circular argument that playing a tough non-con somehow toughens up the team and they are better prepared for conference play. Last year is a shining example of that. Having upper-classmen, a competent PG and making adjustments help you win games in conference.

For all the talk about how young this team is they will start 4 upper-classmen and a potential all-conference sophomore. They should get it done on the road. Easy schedule, tough schedule, whatever. BG has his guys running his system his way and should beat whoever they have to face in November or February.

[UDFLYERS2K]

Originally Posted by Whacker So when UD goes 12-3 in the non-con, 12-4 in the conference and 1-1 in the A-10 tourney to finish 25-8, with a top 3 finish in the league and an at-large NCAA bid I will re-visit this thread for a few chuckles. I get it that season ticket holders are frustrated not to have any "big" games to look forward to. We pay a lot of $$ and should reasonably expect at least 1 game you circle on the schedule in the Summer as a NFW am I missing that one. I don't get the circular argument that playing a tough non-con somehow toughens up the team and they are better prepared for conference play. Last year is a shining example of that. Having upper-classmen, a competent PG and making adjustments help you win games in conference. For all the talk about how young this team is they will start 4 upper-classmen and a potential all-conference sophomore. They should get it done on the road. Easy schedule, tough schedule, whatever. BG has his guys running his system his way and should beat whoever they have to face in November or February.

I agree. Winning some big non-conference road games can really help out a team, but losing can really kill a teams confidence. Just look at the back to back blowouts to Pitt and UNC in 06-07. I really don't think we ever recovered from that especially on the road.

[Flyer'95]

I don't think i ever recovered from spending new years eve in chapel hill. Man that was a good night.

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by Lunk Not me. I would not trade where we are right now to have gotten a "sniff" in the past if it meant that we would have to sacrifice the integrity of our program and our school to do so. If Huggins' job was only to win games, then I guess he did well. However, I believe that the coach should be more responsible for helping these young men to be the best athletes, students, and school representatives that they can be. Huggins didn't give a rat's arse about that. Oh, and by the time he left, he had made UC the punch line of jokes about criminals, poor scholarship among players, and how things should NOT be done. Believe it or not, basketball is not the only concern of the athletic department. Nor should it be. As many posters who are smarter than me have already pointed out, Ted's contributions to UD have allowed NUMEROUS sports teams to achieve success like they have not done in the past. (Soccer and volleyball stand out as two of them.) While basketball is certainly the most important sport in terms of revenue generation, I don't think that the "vision" that Ted has is different from that of Brian G. But Brian G. is not the only coach employed under Ted so Ted has to have a larger vision that will benefit UD an institution, not just as a basketball program.

Accckkk. I may not be sold on BG or TK, and we may continue to wallow in mediocrity indefinitely, but nowhere no how will I ever say I want Huggins as a coach. What a piece of scum (and, please, UC defenders/former fans, I won’t want to hear any defenses – you won’t change my mind). And here I thought I was done with this thread. Give me O’Brien over Huggins.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Of course, we all know that men's BB essentially pays for everything else. But why is that so? Why does that have to be the case? Why does the UD administration insist that the athletics division has to be run like a self-sustaining business? Duquesne, to name just one A10 school, has an athletics division that offers an array of men's/women's programs comparable to UD's. The DU men average about 1500 per game. What does that pay for? Now DU is playing scholarship football forgodssake! Clearly athletics finances are viewed in a different light by the administartion at DU than at UD.

I also agree this is a great point.

In addition I think that women's basketball and volleyball can become self sustaining in their own right. This would alleviate some of the financial burden from the men's bball program.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[UACFlyer]

My point with the Duquesne comparison is that the current UD model seems to be that men's BB will foot the lion's share of the athletic divion bill, period! The Faithful be darned.
Most other schools are not nearly so fortunate to have a cash cow like ours, yet somehow they manage and have athletic programs comparable to ours, e.g., most other A10 schools.

Now, clearly, we would be nuts not to capitalize of our amazing men's BB attendance. But, what I am suggesting is a little tweaking of the model focused on the fans, i.e, saying something to the effect that our goals include ensuring that there are at least three home games each year that the Faithful can get really excited about,....against opponents that might very well beat us at the Arena".

We retain the top goals of getting to the dance, of course; being at/near the top of the A10; balancing the books, etc. But, we are going to place more emphasis on fan entertainment.

What would this mean? Every other year our legacy opponent, Miami, will play at the Arena. That means over a two year period we need five other OOC home games against top competition. Not BCS opponents; but top opponnents from conferences comparable to the A10. This year we have Miami, leaving us two games short. Next year we have Creighton meaning we need two series starts at home against interesting opponents.

There are plenty of candidates. Holy Cross is always a good opponent. Others have suggested the likes of San Diego, Valpo, Drake, Davidson, natural opponents from the PFL. Opponents from the MVC, MW, WAC are obvious. All the while TK can work his butt off to persuade an occasional BCS school to come to Dayton. Villanova has been willing to do it. Once in a blue moon there will be a willing BCS school.

But, let's forget BCS stuff,... recognize/admit where we stand in the overall scheme of things,... and think of and show some respect for the Faithful by making it a given that UD WILL have at least three interesting OOC games at the Arena each and every year.

There will be lost revenue as we play one less home game, sometimes two. Somehow other schools manage to get by without putting 12,000+ fannies in the seats at aevery home game. There is absolutely no reason why Dayton can't. The Administration owes it to the fans to produce a higher level of OOC entertainment each and every year.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Lunk]

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth Accckkk. I may not be sold on BG or TK, and we may continue to wallow in mediocrity indefinitely, but nowhere no how will I ever say I want Huggins as a coach. What a piece of scum (and, please, UC defenders/former fans, I won’t want to hear any defenses – you won’t change my mind). And here I thought I was done with this thread. Give me O’Brien over Huggins.

I think that you were agreeing with me?

I would love to have a great program year after year, but not at the expense of what is ultimately more important to the university and in life in general. Huggins has left his scumbag legacy at UC and Kansas State, and he will now work his own special brand of tarnishing of WV.

[skip69]

Originally Posted by Whacker So when UD goes 12-3 in the non-con, 12-4 in the conference and 1-1 in the A-10 tourney to finish 25-8, with a top 3 finish in the league and an at-large NCAA bid I will re-visit this thread for a few chuckles. I get it that season ticket holders are frustrated not to have any "big" games to look forward to. We pay a lot of $$ and should reasonably expect at least 1 game you circle on the schedule in the Summer as a NFW am I missing that one. I don't get the circular argument that playing a tough non-con somehow toughens up the team and they are better prepared for conference play. Last year is a shining example of that. Having upper-classmen, a competent PG and making adjustments help you win games in conference. For all the talk about how young this team is they will start 4 upper-classmen and a potential all-conference sophomore. They should get it done on the road. Easy schedule, tough schedule, whatever. BG has his guys running his system his way and should beat whoever they have to face in November or February.

If you look at the newesr thread on how good we will be, you'll notice (f I browsed correctly), no one offered any higher than 22 wins. This whole thread seems to have said we should blow thru this schedule and the schedule pretty much makes sende given last year and the fact we didn't make the Dance with a strong SOS.

Sorry, but I think we will stub our toes (as usual) unless BG CHANGES his style and unleashes the horses that can run on this team and play pressing defense. Even then I'm not sure 25 is a given and not sure I even care given the lousy schedule. Most teams get better playing better competition and I don't believe your comment supports otherwise. Our confidence and play last year was getting better all along with the strong SOS until the injuries hit.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by skip69 Even then I'm not sure 25 is a given and not sure I even care given the lousy schedule. Most teams get better playing better competition and I don't believe your comment supports otherwise. Our confidence and play last year was getting better all along with the strong SOS until the injuries hit.

Several people have said how teams get better playing better competition. I don't see why they don't think this schedule will prepare us for the A-10. Last year we played George Mason, Holy Cross, and Miami on the road. This year we play Akron, Toledo, and Creighton on the road - three very comparable road games. Last year we played Louisville on the road and Pitt at home. This year we play Marquette and Auburn at a neutral site. Marquette is a pre-season Top 10 team. Auburn obviously is not comparable to Louisville or Pitt, but is still a BCS conference team which should be better than last year. And that gives us five road/neutral non-conference games this year as opposed to only four last year.

Last year we had some pretty crappy buy games. This year we have some pretty crappy buy games. We have two additional crappy home games this year due to the Chicago Invitational Tournament, but that enables us to play Marquette and Auburn. Last year our best home games (other than Pitt) were Toledo and Akron. This year we have George Mason, Miami, and Marshall. I'm wondering if the lack of one more road game isn't so much that we wanted one more home game for budget purposes, but that we didn't want to play a sixth non-conference road/neutral game. We very rarely play as many as six non-conference road/neutral games. The only season I see in which we did that was 03-04 when we went to Maui and played Pepperdine on the way. All I am saying is that this schedule is plenty tough enough to prepare us for the A-10 schedule, and is really only one top team short of last year's schedule.

[skip69]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Several people have said how teams get better playing better competition. I don't see why they don't think this schedule will prepare us for the A-10. Last year we played George Mason, Holy Cross, and Miami on the road. This year we play Akron, Toledo, and Creighton on the road - three very comparable road games. Last year we played Louisville on the road and Pitt at home. This year we play Marquette and Auburn at a neutral site. Marquette is a pre-season Top 10 team. Auburn obviously is not comparable to Louisville or Pitt, but is still a BCS conference team which should be better than last year. And that gives us five road/neutral non-conference games this year as opposed to only four last year. Last year we had some pretty crappy buy games. This year we have some pretty crappy buy games. We have two additional crappy home games this year due to the Chicago Invitational Tournament, but that enables us to play Marquette and Auburn. Last year our best home games (other than Pitt) were Toledo and Akron. This year we have George Mason, Miami, and Marshall. I'm wondering if the lack of one more road game isn't so much that we wanted one more home game for budget purposes, but that we didn't want to play a sixth non-conference road/neutral game. We very rarely play as many as six non-conference road/neutral games. The only season I see in which we did that was 03-04 when we went to Maui and played Pepperdine on the way. All I am saying is that this schedule is plenty tough enough to prepare us for the A-10 schedule, and is really only one top team short of last year's schedule.

My complaint is the lack of HOME non conf opponents. Who do you look forward to going to see this year? GM is on a downer. So, Maiami??? So, we added two MORE lousy home game to get us to Chicago.

Maybe I'm just getting sick of being taken advantage of with ticket prices and we still don't make much (if any) progress as a program. When you look at the schedule, I would bet that the average RPI is much worse this year than last for the home non conf. Maybe not, but it sure looks like it.

I always like to compare piurselves to Xavier, but I always seem to come up short(er). We continue to broaden our gap it seems.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UACFlyer]

Putting together an OOC schedule every year must be a royal nightmare, not just for Dayton but for many programs in the same boat, more or less. Certainly, it would be easier if a school could count of at leaat two, perhaps three, rivalry games each year. The Philly schools have their "Big 5" games, for example.

We have one, our legacy opponent Miami. Great. But we all know that there are other teams TK would schdeule each and every year if he could. There is no doubt that we would gladly play UC every year, which we did for a long, lobg time;.. is there any doubt that Dayton would willingly play ND every year; or Indiana, or OSU? Of course not. So the idea of having two or three attractive OOC "regulars" is not an issue.

Well, the schools I've mentioned are not going to play us every year; big news! But I don't see that means there is not one other attractive opponent that we could have on our schedule playing at the Arena in the years Miami is an away game. A mid-West team for which there is natural interest would be best, I think. Recall that Saint Louis and Dayton played regularly for years before SLU joined the A10. We need another SLU!

Have we tried to find one? I have no idea; but I doubt it for the simple reason that it should not be that difficult. Such an arrangement could start with a four year deal as a try-out. Indeed, at one point it was mentioned that the Creighton series was for four years. (Why doesn't the athletic dept tell us these things?) If it is, great. But, I think we need at least one more, e.g. Bradley.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Whacker]

Originally Posted by skip69 Most teams get better playing better competition and I don't believe your comment supports otherwise. Our confidence and play last year was getting better all along with the strong SOS until the injuries hit.

I would counter then that UD most not be most teams. How would you explain the 2006-2007 season? UD goes 11-4 in the non-con highlighted by wins against Louisville, Creighton, Miami & Holy Cross. They go on the road 3 times beating SMU and getting pounded by UNC and Pitt. They go on to a stellar 8-8 conference record.

Or the 2005-06 season? Dayton goes 8-7 non-conference playing the likes of UC (2x), Creighton, Pepperdine, DePaul, Vandy & Northern Iowa. That non-conference schedule "prepares" them for a 6-10 conference record.

I don't buy the injury factor for 8 conference losses last year.

Dayton should win 10 games in the non-con every year, just due to the number of home games they play. Then they should be challenging for 10 wins in the conference every year. The bigger question isn't who Dayton plays or doesn't play in the non-con, but why they struggle IN conference. That is what keeps them from playing meaningful post-season games.

Dayton could play more meaningful non-conference games on the road (which probably isn't going to happen) to better prepare them for A-10 road games. The merits of doing that are debatable. I'm not sold that's the answer either.

Successful teams (especially in conference) win on the road and/because they get significant contributions from upper-classmen, have steady PG play and effectively make adjustments.

I'd argue that BG hasn't gotten significant contribution from more than 1 upper-classmen since his first year. The class balance (or lack thereof) contributed as well.

We all know the PG position has not been what it needs to be since Ramod was here.

The conference adjustments have been horrendous. You can pin that on inexperience (both the coach and the players) and lack of talent/depth.

Dayton will get their 10 wins in the non-conference again this year (probably more). This year, more than any other they should be prepared to challenge for 10 in conference as well. 10 wins in the A-10 this year means you beat some pretty good teams, got some road wins and most likely finish in the top 4 getting a favorable tourney draw.

Dayton will have a veteran starting lineup and experience off the bench. The upper classmen along with Chris Wright better provide the bulk of the production. If they don't, they are in a world of hurt in the A-10 again.

PG should scare the heck out of any reasonable Flyer fan. Maybe we should all start bringing our own rosaries to the games. It's going to be a season of hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

We'll see this year if having productive upper classmen and more talent on the bench "makes" BG a better coach when he has to adjust in the A-10.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg