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03-26-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams:
EnthusiAdams Dayton Flyer Head Coaching Candidates:
EnthusiAdams Top Two Candidates:
Kevin Kuwik
o Current assistant at UD
o Assistant to Tim O’Shea at Ohio
o Assistant to Brad Stevens at Butler
o Assistant to Thad Matta at Ohio State
o Assistant to Archie Miller at UD
Anthony Grant
o Assistant coach OKC Thunder
o former head coach Alabama and VCU
o Assistant to Billy Donovan, Florida
o former Flyer great
EnthusiAdams Big Name Options:
John Groce
o Former head coach Illinois
o Former head coach Ohio, Sweet 16
o Former assistant to Thad Matta, Ohio State and Xavier
Tom Crean
o Former head coach, Indiana
o Former head coach, Marquette
Fran Fraschilla, ESPN
o Former head coach, New Mexico, St John’s, Manhattan
o Former assistant at Ohio
Tommy Amaker, Harvard
o Former Michigan head coach
o Former Duke player, assistant
EnthusiAdams Six Regional Head Coach Options
• Keith Dambrot, Akron
• Rob Senderoff, Kent State
• Greg Kampe, Oakland
• Dane Fife, Fort Wayne
• John Brannen, NKU
• Ron Hunter, Georgia State
EnthusiAdams Up and Coming Assistant Coach Options:
• Hubert Davis, UNC
• Mike Mennega, Oregon
• Tommy Lloyd, Gonzaga
• Greg Heier, Wichita State (sister is Shauna Green)
• Luke Murray, Xavier
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I like Kuwik, Groce, and Dambrot from this list.
I am not sure why Groce did not work out at Illinois. I thought I read something about some recruiting handlers?/AAU folks?/high school coaches? in Chicago not liking the hire, so maybe he could not get the recruits he needed.
That may have also been why Bruce Weber eventually was fired. And if true, that may also be a problem for Underwood.
I am not sold on Crean.
I am not sure that UD would consider Dambrot.
Maybe Groce's upside is limited, I would like to know more about what happened at Illinois.
I guess I would pick Kuwik from this list.
And of course, I am surprised that Ray Harper and Darrin Horn are absent from this list.
Last edited by ud2; 03-26-2017 at 05:32 PM..
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03-26-2017, 05:30 PM
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Kuwik has a very impressive assistants resume, similar to archie's when he was hired. He has worked with some tremendous coaches. I guess the UD brain trust will need to decide how much of it has rubbed off.
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03-26-2017, 05:34 PM
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IMHO, the best option is to stay in house.
When I look at other programs that we want to be more like, Butler comes to mind.
Brad Stevens was an assistant from 2001-2007, hired as head coach in 2007.
Chris Holtmann was an assistant from 2013-2014, hired as head coach in 2014 (to present).
They are similar to us in size and location.
They have a much better tournament history.
They have a much better name on the national scope.
They are in a better conference.
Maybe, just maybe, we should be like Butler and promote from within.
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03-26-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
Kuwik has a very impressive assistants resume, similar to archie's when he was hired. He has worked with some tremendous coaches. I guess the UD brain trust will need to decide how much of it has rubbed off.
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Just re-read Adams' bio snap on Kuwik. He has served under some pretty successful HCs. I trust Sullivan and Spina to judge whether or not he's ready for an assignment of this magnitude.
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03-26-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Just re-read Adams' bio snap on Kuwik. He has served under some pretty successful HCs. I trust Sullivan and Spina to judge whether or not he's ready for an assignment of this magnitude.
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They need to make a decision TODAY; not by a "committee" 3 weeks from now after all the incoming freshmen have gone elsewhere...
Name an assistant coach, its the smart thing to do, TODAY...
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03-26-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I like Kuwik, Groce, and Dambrot from this list.
I am not sure why Groce did not work out at Illinois. I thought I read something about some recruiting handlers?/AAU folks?/high school coaches? in Chicago not liking the hire, so maybe he could not get the recruits he needed.
That may have also been why Bruce Weber eventually was fired. And if true, that may also be a problem for Underwood.
I am not sold on Crean.
I am not sure that UD would consider Dambrot.
Maybe Groce's upside is limited, I would like to know more about what happened at Illinois.
I guess I would pick Kuwik from this list.
And of course, I am surprised that Ray Harper and Darrin Horn are absent from this list.
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Groce landed some nice recruits from the Chicago Public leage. Two were teammates of KP - Kendrick Nunn and Jaylon Tate. Neither lived up to their expectations. Tate and Nunn got arrested for a domestic incident Nunn was dismissed from the team, but Tate was dismissed. Both of these guys were HS teammates of KP. Perhaps how the incident was handled was not viewed favorably by the AAU community. . Regardless AM has made good decisions with his recruits and I am sure respecte by the power brockers in the Chicago area. This should help him at IU.
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03-26-2017, 11:07 PM
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Hadn't seen this posted and seemed to fit best here.
Classy move.
(I am agnostic towards Crean as our future coach, by the way)
http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2017/3/...indianas-coach
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03-26-2017, 11:12 PM
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Indeed, that was a class act. I am convinced that Crean never was embraced by Hoosier fans or recruits. He just didn't fit in with that culture. Archie may face the same dilemma there. I lived in Indiana for 12 years; I know Hoosiers and their basketball. Archie better win...and quickly. Their patience for losing in basketball is slim to none.
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03-26-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Indeed, that was a class act. I am convinced that Crean never was embraced by Hoosier fans or recruits. He just didn't fit in with that culture. Archie may face the same dilemma there. I lived in Indiana for 12 years; I know Hoosiers and their basketball. Archie better win...and quickly. Their patience for losing in basketball is slim to none.
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I hope it works out for Archie and agree with you. I do think he'll be successful as he brings that lunch pail work ethic that I think will be embraced early on by the fans, even if he doesn't take them to stratospheric heights of success immediately.
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03-27-2017, 10:01 AM
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Isn't it crazy that some of these revered arenas have bleachers in some places?
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03-27-2017, 11:04 AM
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It won't be Baker Dunleavy
Jon RothsteinVerified account @JonRothstein 7m7 minutes ago
Quinnipiac will hire Villanova's Baker Dunleavy as its next head basketball coach, per multiple sources.
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03-27-2017, 11:08 AM
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We probably need to know the new hire by Wednesday if we're to have a decent chance of retaining recruits.
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03-27-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
It won't be Baker Dunleavy
Jon RothsteinVerified account @JonRothstein 7m7 minutes ago
Quinnipiac will hire Villanova's Baker Dunleavy as its next head basketball coach, per multiple sources.
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If Baker Dunleavy took the Quinnipiac job then he was not ready for UD...a much, much, much lower step down.
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03-27-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
It won't be Baker Dunleavy
Jon RothsteinVerified account @JonRothstein 7m7 minutes ago
Quinnipiac will hire Villanova's Baker Dunleavy as its next head basketball coach, per multiple sources.
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Heard that name bandied about for the Duquesne job quite a bit. Might have been a good hire for the Dukes if they are going the assistant route. I mean you'd think a guy willing to go Quinnipiac would be willing to go Duquesne, right?
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03-27-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
If Baker Dunleavy took the Quinnipiac job then he was not ready for UD...a much, much, much lower step down.
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I heard Ray Harper was in line for that job, but he turned it down.
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03-27-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
It won't be Baker Dunleavy
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I think most already knew that........sorry, couldn't resist.
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03-27-2017, 11:55 AM
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How about Kermit Davis from MTSU? Why not Randy Bennett if we can pay him enough $$$ to lure him away? I, personally, think we're aiming kind of low. I realize we're not going to offer just anyone $3,000,000. That was just reserved for Archie. However, I think our program is in a state where we can aim a little higher than some of the names I'm seeing. Dayton will NEVER be a destination job if we keep hiring up and coming assistants. Give me one of these two guys.
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03-27-2017, 11:58 AM
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Why would Randy Bennett leave a great job, in Northern California, with Under Armour money to come to Dayton? Why?
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03-27-2017, 12:08 PM
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Because he'd make more $$$ at Dayton...? And I must be out of the loop with the Under Armour thing?
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03-27-2017, 12:19 PM
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They are an under armour school. Coaches get in on those contracts.
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03-27-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
How about Kermit Davis from MTSU? Why not Randy Bennett if we can pay him enough $$$ to lure him away? I, personally, think we're aiming kind of low. I realize we're not going to offer just anyone $3,000,000. That was just reserved for Archie. However, I think our program is in a state where we can aim a little higher than some of the names I'm seeing. Dayton will NEVER be a destination job if we keep hiring up and coming assistants. Give me one of these two guys.
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Kermit Davis just signed a new deal, and also, he is 57. I would be worried about a coach that age starting over at a new job. Especially after being at MTSU as long as he has.
As for Randy Bennett, he just turned down Cal, and has turned down P5 schools in the past. I do not think he would even consider leaving for Dayton.
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03-27-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Kermit Davis just signed a new deal, and also, he is 57. I would be worried about a coach that age starting over at a new job. Especially after being at MTSU as long as he has.
As for Randy Bennett, he just turned down Cal, and has turned down P5 schools in the past. I do not think he would even consider leaving for Dayton.
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I'd also worry about a coach that lives and dies on transfers like Davis does....
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03-27-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Kermit Davis just signed a new deal, and also, he is 57. I would be worried about a coach that age starting over at a new job. Especially after being at MTSU as long as he has.
As for Randy Bennett, he just turned down Cal, and has turned down P5 schools in the past. I do not think he would even consider leaving for Dayton.
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Yeah, and we're doing the same thing we accuse schools of doing to us. We have NO clue what he actually makes. We assume more money (if we offer it) will just get him. It's obnoxious. I'll give you whatever odds you want. We're not even calling him, let alone him answering.
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03-27-2017, 12:34 PM
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Fair enough. I guess I was just trying to get the point across that we should be aiming very high at first.
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03-27-2017, 12:38 PM
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well I don't disagree with that point. Just disagree with your example I guess. Sure, call Crean first. That's aiming high. If a couple of those big calls go unanswered and you have faith in Kuwik pull the trigger. I'm fine with that process.
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03-27-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
I'd also worry about a coach that lives and dies on transfers like Davis does....
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Our leading scorers the last 6 seasons were all transfers. I doubt Cunningham leads us in scoring, but he has a chance to extend that streak.
Archie lived on transfers too - His transfers were quality over quantity.
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03-27-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
Why not Randy Bennett if we can pay him enough $$$ to lure him away?
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Dayton has reached out to Randy Bennett at least once before, maybe twice. He has never been interested.
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03-27-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09
Why would Randy Bennett leave a great job, in Northern California, with Under Armour money to come to Dayton? Why?
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Have you ever seen St Mary's campus? Or the area it is located .... Moraga hills? .... 20 miles from San Francisco.... it is truly gorgeous and a high end place to be.....
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03-27-2017, 01:08 PM
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The more I read about Crean the more I like the guy. I have no horse in this race, but based on the article in SI, Crean got very little support from IU for years. And he still did his job well in my opinion. He was the conference COY just last year. He has 3 Sweet 16s and a Final Four on his resume. What other coach available has that? In a perfect world if we could get this guy and keep 2 of the 3 assistants I think we would be sitting in great shape. I doubt that happens, but we should be aiming for something close to this. I have no idea where the assistant coaches contracts come into play, but I would guess they are all still under contract. That's not hard to change, but I'm not sure we want to let them all go with a coaching change. An Anthony Grant hiring probably gives us the best chance to retain assistants from a contract point, but I can't get past a coach with a Final Four and 3 Sweet 16s on his resume. That's a big time coach in my book.
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03-27-2017, 01:58 PM
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It's gotta be Crean. Not sure the infatuation with Anthony Grant. And its laughable that names like Dambrot and Groce are being mentioned. I dont know enough about the assistants to voice an opinion.
Side note: Im surprised the site didnt implode since i was last on Saturday.
I actually think we should hire Ray Harper. I also wonder if an IU H&H is on the horizon. I think the new coach should look into a Wright State game on MLK day. Does anyone know the drink ingredients in a Wall? What place is Archie in the Infiniti challenge? And finally, how is Detwon Rogers knee?
Trust Neil Sullivan and Frank Spina and step away from the ledge. We will be ok.
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03-27-2017, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
I actually think we should hire Ray Harper. I also wonder if an IU H&H is on the horizon. I think the new coach should look into a Wright State game on MLK day. Does anyone know the drink ingredients in a Wall? What place is Archie in the Infiniti challenge? And finally, how is Detwon Rogers knee?
Trust Neil Sullivan and Frank Spina and step away from the ledge. We will be ok.
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I really want to know how the new coach will explain all the bone bruises UD players get.
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03-27-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3
Trust Neil Sullivan and Frank Spina and step away from the ledge. We will be ok.
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Can I have that drink first?
Can I have another after the first?
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03-27-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
The more I read about Crean the more I like the guy. I have no horse in this race, but based on the article in SI, Crean got very little support from IU for years. And he still did his job well in my opinion. He was the conference COY just last year. He has 3 Sweet 16s and a Final Four on his resume. What other coach available has that? In a perfect world if we could get this guy and keep 2 of the 3 assistants I think we would be sitting in great shape. I doubt that happens, but we should be aiming for something close to this. I have no idea where the assistant coaches contracts come into play, but I would guess they are all still under contract. That's not hard to change, but I'm not sure we want to let them all go with a coaching change. An Anthony Grant hiring probably gives us the best chance to retain assistants from a contract point, but I can't get past a coach with a Final Four and 3 Sweet 16s on his resume. That's a big time coach in my book.
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Crean's an interesting candidate. He is a recruiter first coach second. He's different on the sideline than Arch. I think he'll annoy a lot of the fan base with his style and how he carries himself. Plus he doesn't make great in game decisions. The Dayton fanbase is an intelligent basketball savvy group. I think over time he wears on us, and that concerns me. This board likes to second guess a lot and you will second guess Crean.
Finally,the biggest challenge with Crean maybe keeping him more than a couple of years.
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03-27-2017, 02:40 PM
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i'm not picking a coach based on how long he stays. It's a great bonus if that's part of the discussion, but there are no promises regardless of who it is. Kuwik is just as likely to leave as Crean if successful after 4 years (as examples). Picking a guy based on him being likely to stick around is picking mediocrity. I think Dayton's a great place and I want a coach who realizes that and stays, but I'm not hiring based on it. I'm hiring the best coach I can find.
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03-27-2017, 02:49 PM
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Here's IUs bio on Crean going into the season. I don't think we can beat this on paper, but there are the intangibles as noted above.
http://iuhoosiers.com/coaches.aspx?rc=1513
As far as staying, I think after a coach has been a place that did not support him, and that has been the case for Crean for the last several years at IU, they tend to appreciate an administration that does everything possible for them. He might value this very highly at UD.
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03-27-2017, 02:57 PM
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A guy like Will Wade has skipped programs faster than anyone I have heard about in quite some time and he was only at VCU for 2 years so I don't want somebody as a fill in and I don't expect someone to stay too long unless they are successful.
2 Years is way way too short and JOB was way way way too long!
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03-27-2017, 04:34 PM
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Ok, lets move on to more stealthy technology. Does anyone know the tail number of the jet or jets UD uses from an Athletics perspective? It's easy to track the flight plans and see what cities they are flying to. This assumes we are past the telephone stage.
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03-27-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09
i'm not picking a coach based on how long he stays. It's a great bonus if that's part of the discussion, but there are no promises regardless of who it is. Kuwik is just as likely to leave as Crean if successful after 4 years (as examples).
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Just examples, but Kuwik could be more likely to leave. He would be in a position of being successful and wants to chase the dream and live the life of a coach at a school that "can be in a position to win a national title every year".
Some who have already experienced that, and felt the pressures that came with coming up short, are not as inclined to do it again if their "lesser" school is a good place to be and is paying appropriately.
Again hypotheticals, who knows how either of the two individuals named think about this. But many coaches who were next tier, went P5 and got fired, then succeeded again at a next tier level have stayed next tier. I'm sure there are others, but Alford's about the only one that comes to mind quickly who has gone back to P5. Others like McDermott have stayed put.
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03-27-2017, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09
Why would Randy Bennett leave a great job, in Northern California, with Under Armour money to come to Dayton? Why?
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Think of all the additional airline miles he'd get by flying to Dayton from Australia instead of to California!
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03-27-2017, 05:49 PM
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Remember Dayton beating Alabama 80-48? That was the team Anthony Grant left behind
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03-27-2017, 06:28 PM
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With him not seemingly not being a fit with the Bulls, I am surprised Fred Hoiberg's name was not mentioned in conjunction with any college openings.
Not saying he is right for us.
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03-27-2017, 06:32 PM
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Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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03-27-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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Please no........
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03-27-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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As long as he don't also follow Sullivan.
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03-27-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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Could not stand him as a player. He definitely would be on the all-time whiner team. I think he's doing his own self promotion and saying there's interest from UD. In Eric and Neil I trust.
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03-27-2017, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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Can not stand Paulus. I will throw a name out there you may not have heard before, but I really like Ray Harper better.
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03-27-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Please no........
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I'd literally rather have a blindfolded, half-drunk Ray Harper...
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03-27-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Greg Paulus just started following Spina. I hope that means nothing. I really do.
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Paulus is the 3rd assistant for OSU. He would not be a head coaching candidate at this point in his career. Kuwik is potentially trying to line up a staff if he gets the job and may have spoken to Paulus about his interest. I believe Paulus replaced Kuwik at OSU when he came to UD so the connection makes sense.
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03-28-2017, 12:56 AM
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Take it for what it is worth. Sometimes this site's rumors are correct, sometimes they are wrong.
No mention of Kuwik or Griffin or Crean. Seems very strange.
https://hoopdirt.com/daily-dirt-32717/:
VERY early names at Dayton: Ball State head coach James Whitford, former Alabama head coach Anthony Grant, Northern Kentucky head coach John Brannen, current Dayton assistant Tom Ostrom, and Ohio State assistant Greg Paulus. More as this search gets going…
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03-28-2017, 01:22 AM
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"VERY early?"
I think the hire should be announced by Wednesday at the latest.
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03-28-2017, 01:27 AM
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I've seen Paulus linked to the UD job a few places - I don't see that one happening, but who knows...
The longer this takes the more it makes me think it is not a current assistant.
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03-28-2017, 01:36 AM
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Anthony Grant averaged a kenpom ranking of 58 in his 9 years at VCU & Bama. Range was 26 to 86. 3 NCAAs and 4 NITs. Beat #10 kenpom team Duke in 2009 NCAA 1st round and lost to #11 Pitt in OT. Lost by 1 to #11 UCLA in 2009 NCAA, lost by 1 to #28 Creighton in 2012 NCAA. I know some skill, but a couple different bounces and Anthony Grant could have won 3 more NCAA games. Grant has 4 top 20 kenpom wins in 9 years -- #11 Wichita St Neutral 2012, #7 KY Home 2011, #8 Baylor Neutral 2010, #10 Duke Neutral 2009.
13-61 A Games (Including 6-9 with VCU which may be the better compare)
38-29 B Games (Including 10-6 VCU)
51-90 A&B Games (including 16-15 VCU)
Will note a lot of Grant's A Games were versus top 25 teams and most of Archie's were top 50 and about 20 of Grant's A losses were versus KY & FL -- Calapari and Donavan!
Archie Miller averaged a kenpom raking of 53 in his 6 years at Dayton. Range was 39 to 69. 4 NCAAs & 1 NIT in 6 years. Archie had 3 top 20 kenpom wins in 6 years -- 2012 home #14 St Louis, 2014 Neutral #19 OSU, & 2014 Neutral #18 Syracuse.
17-29 A games
25-18 B games
42-47 A&B Games
Not as much difference as I would have expected. Note that many of Grant's A Games versus top 25 and many of Archie's versus 26-50 so not totally fair compare. Big advantage to Archie in A and NCAA games. But big difference between playing #1 and #50, Grant materially more difficult top 50 games. Also small sample size with Grant's 1-3 NCAA & Archie's 5-4. Grant basically lost most close games and Archie won them. Could attribute to skill or luck or both.
All numbers kenpom, A games top 50 adjusted for location and B games 51-100 adjusted for location. I probably miscounted slightly for A & B Games.
Last edited by ruechalgrin; 03-28-2017 at 02:04 AM..
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03-28-2017, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Take it for what it is worth. Sometimes this site's rumors are correct, sometimes they are wrong.
No mention of Kuwik or Griffin or Crean. Seems very strange.
https://hoopdirt.com/daily-dirt-32717/:
VERY early names at Dayton: Ball State head coach James Whitford, former Alabama head coach Anthony Grant, Northern Kentucky head coach John Brannen, current Dayton assistant Tom Ostrom, and Ohio State assistant Greg Paulus. More as this search gets going…
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No mention of Ray Harper either???
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03-28-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Anthony Grant averaged a kenpom ranking of 58 in his 9 years at VCU & Bama. Range was 26 to 86. 3 NCAAs and 4 NITs. Beat #10 kenpom team Duke in 2009 NCAA 1st round and lost to #11 Pitt in OT. Lost by 1 to #11 UCLA in 2009 NCAA, lost by 1 to #28 Creighton in 2012 NCAA. I know some skill, but a couple different bounces and Anthony Grant could have won 3 more NCAA games. Grant has 4 top 20 kenpom wins in 9 years -- #11 Wichita St Neutral 2012, #7 KY Home 2011, #8 Baylor Neutral 2010, #10 Duke Neutral 2009.
13-61 A Games (Including 6-9 with VCU which may be the better compare)
38-29 B Games (Including 10-6 VCU)
51-90 A&B Games (including 16-15 VCU)
Will note a lot of Grant's A Games were versus top 25 teams and most of Archie's were top 50 and about 20 of Grant's A losses were versus KY & FL -- Calapari and Donavan!
Archie Miller averaged a kenpom raking of 53 in his 6 years at Dayton. Range was 39 to 69. 4 NCAAs & 1 NIT in 6 years. Archie had 3 top 20 kenpom wins in 6 years -- 2012 home #14 St Louis, 2014 Neutral #19 OSU, & 2014 Neutral #18 Syracuse.
17-29 A games
25-18 B games
42-47 A&B Games
Not as much difference as I would have expected. Note that many of Grant's A Games versus top 25 and many of Archie's versus 26-50 so not totally fair compare. Big advantage to Archie in A and NCAA games. But big difference between playing #1 and #50, Grant materially more difficult top 50 games. Also small sample size with Grant's 1-3 NCAA & Archie's 5-4. Grant basically lost most close games and Archie won them. Could attribute to skill or luck or both.
All numbers kenpom, A games top 50 adjusted for location and B games 51-100 adjusted for location. I probably miscounted slightly for A & B Games.
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Great analysis, you need to send to Sullivan.
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03-28-2017, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats
I've seen Paulus linked to the UD job a few places - I don't see that one happening, but who knows...
The longer this takes the more it makes me think it is not a current assistant.
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UD just being very patient or, rather, as much patience as needed for a 4-5 day period..I'd imagine they'll have a coach in place by this friday. Again, because of the precarious position they are in they simply have to get it right...Sullivan and UD had a "list" started probably since the day Archie was even hired six years ago and especially these past 2-3 years. They have added to it daily/weekly/monthly and deleted from it the same based on success/failures of those on that list.
Getting those core group of candidates together wherever those meetings/interviews take place (lunges, airports, games, etc.) can be a very tedious operation and takes some time..
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03-28-2017, 07:41 AM
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Why is there very little mention of Ostrom? I would have thought he and Kuwik would at the least be neck and neck. Myself, personally would give the edge to Ostrom but it seems everyone else like Kuwik. But I'd be happy with either.
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03-28-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2
Why is there very little mention of Ostrom? I would have thought he and Kuwik would at the least be neck and neck. Myself, personally would give the edge to Ostrom but it seems everyone else like Kuwik. But I'd be happy with either.
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Agreed. The thread that should be started is Ostrom vs Kuwik or can we keep both!!!!
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03-28-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Take it for what it is worth. Sometimes this site's rumors are correct, sometimes they are wrong.
No mention of Kuwik or Griffin or Crean. Seems very strange.
https://hoopdirt.com/daily-dirt-32717/:
VERY early names at Dayton: Ball State head coach James Whitford, former Alabama head coach Anthony Grant, Northern Kentucky head coach John Brannen, current Dayton assistant Tom Ostrom, and Ohio State assistant Greg Paulus. More as this search gets going…
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Yeah I saw that on hoopdirt as well. Seeing some of those names on that list takes me back to the last time we rode this carousel and the name Bruiser Flint kept surfacing. Oh GOD, I think I just threw up a little thinking of that.
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03-28-2017, 08:18 AM
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Anthony Grant....
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03-28-2017, 08:32 AM
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The only outsider i'd like is Grant, everyone that's been fired has their warts, but he's also had success. If he's the coach here and is able to do well, he will most likely stay. He's already played that game and got fired, does he want to go through that again?
Otherwise, I'd like Kuwik or Ostrom for continuity. Maybe they can offer a deal to keep both, who knows; not sure what their egos are like.
I'd be pretty dissapointed with anyone else, maybe crean but the other names no way.
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03-28-2017, 08:36 AM
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I'd take Dane Fife from Mich St, Anthony Grant or Crean. Other than that I'd promote from within. In fact, that may be my first choice. Continuity within the program breeds success typically. Or, at least it has with a lot of the other programs that we strive to be like.
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03-28-2017, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
I'd take Dane Fife from Mich St, Anthony Grant or Crean. Other than that I'd promote from within. In fact, that may be my first choice. Continuity within the program breeds success typically. Or, at least it has with a lot of the other programs that we strive to be like.
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I think this is my list too. Kuwait or Ostrom or these three. Any I would be very happy with. All have plus and minuses, but in the end i think the Flyer Faithful and players would be happy.
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03-28-2017, 09:05 AM
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Fife scares me to death. Zero confidence in him as a head coach.
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03-28-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Fife scares me to death. Zero confidence in him as a head coach.
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Why's that? Young, great recruiter, worked under Izzo for 5-6 years. Already been a head coach at IPFW and turned them from one of the worst programs in college basketball to having an 18-12 record in 5 years. Not my first choice I guess, but I'd be okay with it.
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03-28-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Anthony Grant averaged a kenpom ranking of 58 in his 9 years at VCU & Bama. Range was 26 to 86. 3 NCAAs and 4 NITs. Beat #10 kenpom team Duke in 2009 NCAA 1st round and lost to #11 Pitt in OT. Lost by 1 to #11 UCLA in 2009 NCAA, lost by 1 to #28 Creighton in 2012 NCAA. I know some skill, but a couple different bounces and Anthony Grant could have won 3 more NCAA games. Grant has 4 top 20 kenpom wins in 9 years -- #11 Wichita St Neutral 2012, #7 KY Home 2011, #8 Baylor Neutral 2010, #10 Duke Neutral 2009.
13-61 A Games (Including 6-9 with VCU which may be the better compare)
38-29 B Games (Including 10-6 VCU)
51-90 A&B Games (including 16-15 VCU)
Will note a lot of Grant's A Games were versus top 25 teams and most of Archie's were top 50 and about 20 of Grant's A losses were versus KY & FL -- Calapari and Donavan!
Archie Miller averaged a kenpom raking of 53 in his 6 years at Dayton. Range was 39 to 69. 4 NCAAs & 1 NIT in 6 years. Archie had 3 top 20 kenpom wins in 6 years -- 2012 home #14 St Louis, 2014 Neutral #19 OSU, & 2014 Neutral #18 Syracuse.
17-29 A games
25-18 B games
42-47 A&B Games
Not as much difference as I would have expected. Note that many of Grant's A Games versus top 25 and many of Archie's versus 26-50 so not totally fair compare. Big advantage to Archie in A and NCAA games. But big difference between playing #1 and #50, Grant materially more difficult top 50 games. Also small sample size with Grant's 1-3 NCAA & Archie's 5-4. Grant basically lost most close games and Archie won them. Could attribute to skill or luck or both.
All numbers kenpom, A games top 50 adjusted for location and B games 51-100 adjusted for location. I probably miscounted slightly for A & B Games.
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All well and good. But Grant also coached at Alabama. You cannot evaluate his resume' by throwing out half the body of work. Evaluation must be on the totality. Its like evaluating Brian Gregory and completely dismissing his tenure at Georgia Tech as irrelevant. Its all relevant.
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03-28-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
Already been a head coach at IPFW and turned them from one of the worst programs in college basketball to having an 18-12 record in 5 years.
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What he did at IPFW suggests to me he is nothing special. I realize they were awful and he turned it around but 5 years to get it to 18-12 pales in comparison to what sone of these other guys have done to - Brannon, Jamion Christian, Rhoades, etc. In less time, they have had more success at programs on IPFW's level. Those guys look special, especially in comparison to Fife.
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03-28-2017, 09:27 AM
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Maybe they should just come onto UDpride ... plenty of coaches in here! ;-)
Kuwik, Ostrum, Grant. I'd be happy with any of those guys. For some reason I don't like this idea of coach swapping, even though Crean would be great. It's got that 70's key-party vibe to it.
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03-28-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
What he did at IPFW suggests to me he is nothing special. I realize they were awful and he turned it around but 5 years to get it to 18-12 pales in comparison to what sone of these other guys have done to - Brannon, Jamion Christian, Rhoades, etc. In less time, they have had more success at programs on IPFW's level. Those guys look special, especially in comparison to Fife.
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I would agree Fife is probably 5th on this list, and I certainly have more favorites. But I would be ok with the hire. Some of the other names being thrown around are below these five in my opinion. (Not that I get to vote or anything. )
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03-28-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
I'd literally rather have a blindfolded, half-drunk Ray Harper...
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That sounds good; especially if he's giving Paulus a lift to a UD interview...
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03-28-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
All well and good. But Grant also coached at Alabama. You cannot evaluate his resume' by throwing out half the body of work. Evaluation must be on the totality. Its like evaluating Brian Gregory and completely dismissing his tenure at Georgia Tech as irrelevant. Its all relevant.
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Yep. And Grant was better than Gregory at Alabama. At GT, BG was 76-86. Grant was 54-49 at Alabama. He had 26, 33 and 21 win seasons. Grant was flirting with success, and just a win or two away a couple of times. If Grant deserved another year or two to see in my opinion. Gregory was given at least one too many due to GT's financial situation (paying Hewett too).
When you compare Grant at Alabama to BG at GT, I think it's reasonable to come away thinking Grant would be better at Dayton than Gregory was. Add in the VCU record and that should inspire more confidence that he would succeed in the A10.
So that's really the case for Anthony Grant. The alum stuff is just gravy.
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03-28-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
That sounds good; especially if he's giving Paulus a lift to a UD interview...
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Firmly in the anyone but Paulus camp but man, that's cold!
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03-28-2017, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Yep. And Grant was better than Gregory at Alabama. At GT, BG was 76-86. Grant was 54-49 at Alabama. He had 26, 33 and 21 win seasons. Grant was flirting with success, and just a win or two away a couple of times. If Grant deserved another year or two to see in my opinion. Gregory was given at least one too many due to GT's financial situation (paying Hewett too).
When you compare Grant at Alabama to BG at GT, I think it's reasonable to come away thinking Grant would be better at Dayton than Gregory was. Add in the VCU record and that should inspire more confidence that he would succeed in the A10.
So that's really the case for Anthony Grant. The alum stuff is just gravy.
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And you're also talking about a guy in Grant who was also there just as the fury in Bama' football was going nuts again. Talk about playing 2nd fiddle and certainly not having the resources in basketball they probably have now..
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03-28-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
And you're also talking about a guy in Grant who was also there just as the fury in Bama' football was going nuts again. Talk about playing 2nd fiddle and certainly not having the resources in basketball they probably have now..
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Avery Johnson has not done any better at Alabama than Grant. He is 37-30 in 2 years. And this was a guy they threw a ton of money and resources at to bring in. And it isn't like Johnson is a bad coach. In 3 years he won 61, 67, and 51 while coaching for the Mavericks. Alabama is just a very tough place to win at.
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03-28-2017, 10:03 AM
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Dicky V saying this morning that IU never offered the job to Alford. So Archie was their guy all along.
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03-28-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
Avery Johnson has not done any better at Alabama than Grant. He is 37-30 in 2 years. And this was a guy they threw a ton of money and resources at to bring in. And it isn't like Johnson is a bad coach. In 3 years he won 61, 67, and 51 while coaching for the Mavericks. Alabama is just a very tough place to win at.
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No he hasn't but I guarantee you Avery even requested a few more resources (forget salary as that's a given) than they ever would have given Grant. Again, as you mention it's just a really tough place to win at.
Last edited by steve; 03-28-2017 at 10:07 AM..
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03-28-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
No he hasn't but I guarantee you Avery requested a few more resources (forget salary as that's a given) than they ever would have given Grant. Again, as you mention it's just a really tough place to win at.
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I agree 100%. Sorry if my wording was poor, but that was the point I was trying to make. Even with more resources, Avery Johnson is still not doing any better than Anthony Grant.
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03-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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I think IPFW started their transition to d1 in 2003...IINM the transition period is 5 years...Fife was the hc from 2005-2011.
And I think they changed their name to Fort Wayne, IPFW is the old name.
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03-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Dicky V saying this morning that IU never offered the job to Alford. So Archie was their guy all along.
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IUs AD said at the presser the job was only offered to Archie. The press asked about the hiring process, but both Glass and Archie said they weren't going into details, not even timelines.
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03-28-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I agree 100%. Sorry if my wording was poor, but that was the point I was trying to make. Even with more resources, Avery Johnson is still not doing any better than Anthony Grant.
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No worries at all. I knew exactly what you meant. Am I'm not really even touting Grant as the next UD coach but just giving him his props under a tough situation..
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03-28-2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
IUs AD said at the presser the job was only offered to Archie. The press asked about the hiring process, but both Glass and Archie said they weren't going into details, not even timelines.
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I can tell you that Chris Mack was offered the job thru a couple very intimate X donors...
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03-28-2017, 10:32 AM
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So the delay was because they were waiting for X to lose? That makes sense. Based on timing, I assumed they reached out to Alford. If he wasn't "offered" the job, it's because he didn't take the call. But it could be that they were waiting for X instead of waiting for UCLA. If Archie were their #1 choice, the hire would have been wrapped up sooner.
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03-28-2017, 10:34 AM
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Kuwik, Ostrom, Grant, and Crean... that's the fans' short list. It's a shame that Archie never named an Associate Head Coach to make the pecking order more clear. Without that, it seems like there's no chance that we could hire Kuwik or Ostrom and still keep the other on board.
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03-28-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I agree 100%. Sorry if my wording was poor, but that was the point I was trying to make. Even with more resources, Avery Johnson is still not doing any better than Anthony Grant.
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He's got a pretty **** good recruiting class coming in, and they were playing pretty well towards the end of the year. I look for Alabama to take a big step forward in the next year or two.
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03-28-2017, 10:35 AM
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IU had a middleman talking to coaches and agents. It's how it's done. I am sure they tested the waters with Alford to see if he was interested. Alford was on the hot seat not that long ago. Even if there was interest by both parties both Alford and IU are going to deny deny deny. It's the reason you use a middleman. Sure Arch might have been the first they made an offer to. Let's just say Miller turned down the offer. Do you think for a minute Fred Glass wants the press to know that Arch turned down the IU gig. Again, that's the reason for the search firm. It's how they keep things from press so no one get's exposed.
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03-28-2017, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Yep. And Grant was better than Gregory at Alabama. At GT, BG was 76-86. Grant was 54-49 at Alabama. He had 26, 33 and 21 win seasons. Grant was flirting with success, and just a win or two away a couple of times. If Grant deserved another year or two to see in my opinion. Gregory was given at least one too many due to GT's financial situation (paying Hewett too).
When you compare Grant at Alabama to BG at GT, I think it's reasonable to come away thinking Grant would be better at Dayton than Gregory was. Add in the VCU record and that should inspire more confidence that he would succeed in the A10.
So that's really the case for Anthony Grant. The alum stuff is just gravy.
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Let's not forget that during BG's entire time at GT, he was living with recruiting restrictions that were the result of probation for violations from Hewitt and the football program. I'm a big Grant fan also, but I think it's only fair to take into consideration when comparing the two.
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03-28-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
I can tell you that Chris Mack was offered the job thru a couple very intimate X donors...
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Excuse me if I take that with a grain of salt.
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03-28-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
I can tell you that Chris Mack was offered the job thru a couple very intimate X donors...
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No disrespect Steve, but if YOU know this, how is this kind of information not out in the media yet, or at all?
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03-28-2017, 10:57 AM
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Didn't Archie get the job before X lost.
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03-28-2017, 11:00 AM
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Wins alone don't define the difference
Originally Posted by JimBo
Let's not forget that during BG's entire time at GT, he was living with recruiting restrictions that were the result of probation for violations from Hewitt and the football program. I'm a big Grant fan also, but I think it's only fair to take into consideration when comparing the two.
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Arguably BG worked in a much more difficult conference.
The commonality is that both worked in conferences
where there were superpowers that they would always run behind making it very difficult to satisfy the alumni with unrealistic expectations.
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03-28-2017, 11:13 AM
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Last evening on ESPN radio between 6 and 6:30 pm. A columnist for the Indianapolis Star was a guest. He said Indiana never wanted Alford... that it was Alford himself(or through others) who was floating his name in connection with the job. He said Alford also did this before Crean was hired. Mack wasn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean they didn't find out if he was interested. The columnist was high on Archie
Found the podcast. Starts after the 10:30 mark
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=19017993
Last edited by Lifelong Flyer Fan; 03-28-2017 at 11:19 AM..
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03-28-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09
i'm not picking a coach based on how long he stays. It's a great bonus if that's part of the discussion, but there are no promises regardless of who it is. Kuwik is just as likely to leave as Crean if successful after 4 years (as examples). Picking a guy based on him being likely to stick around is picking mediocrity. I think Dayton's a great place and I want a coach who realizes that and stays, but I'm not hiring based on it. I'm hiring the best coach I can find.
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The next time I hear a coach say he is happy and has no reason to leave I won't believe it is the entire truth
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03-28-2017, 11:27 AM
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I want Anthony Grant with Damon Goodwin as asst. and he brings his son with him
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03-28-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by deegood
I want Anthony Grant with Damon Goodwin as asst. and he brings his son with him
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That would be interesting. Former teammates.
Matta probably wouldn't be real happy about this scenario since Dane Goodwin has been committed to him since his freshman year, but he's class of 2018 so he hasn't signed anything. No release necessary. Dane can go wherever he wants.
Of course, the other way Dayton might be able to steal Dane would be hiring Jeff Boals, who recruited Dane to OSU initially.
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03-28-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Fife scares me to death. Zero confidence in him as a head coach.
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This!
Originally Posted by flyerfan4life
Why's that? Young, great recruiter, worked under Izzo for 5-6 years. Already been a head coach at IPFW and turned them from one of the worst programs in college basketball to having an 18-12 record in 5 years. Not my first choice I guess, but I'd be okay with it.
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I fear he would use the Izzo system and I can't handle watching that. BG 2.0 would be awful.
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03-28-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by deegood
I want Anthony Grant with Damon Goodwin as asst. and he brings his son with him
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You can't hire a D3 coach with no D1 recruiting connections/experience as an assistant just to get his son unless the kid is a McDonalds All American.
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03-28-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
I can tell you that Chris Mack was offered the job thru a couple very intimate X donors...
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Are you sure Mack wasn't offered the IU job through a couple very intimate UD donors?
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03-28-2017, 12:04 PM
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03-28-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time
You can't hire a D3 coach with no D1 recruiting connections/experience as an assistant just to get his son unless the kid is a McDonalds All American.
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Dane is not too far off from that designation. ESPN has him ranked 54.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/b...s/_/class/2018
I hear what you are saying, but Anthony Grant played with Damon Goodwin, so he would have a good idea about what he would bring to a staff. He might not have a ton of recruiting connections, but you get to hire more than one assistant. It's about assembling a team, and so it's perfectly plausible he might hire Goodwin, but obviously we're getting ahead of ourselves in speculating about assistants before we know whether Grant is even a candidate....
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03-28-2017, 12:09 PM
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03-28-2017, 12:10 PM
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Groce would be a disaster!!!!!!!
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