Report Card

[CoffeeCan]

Well, that sucked. Again. But as a Flyer Fan I guess I should be used to it now... Sad.

Here are the grades for the team as we count the days until the next Lindenwood game or whatever ****ty team we will play to start November

Camara : A
Tons of heart
Best of luck in Europe

Holmes : A
Please come back
Keep hitting the weight room

Amzil: B
Good role player
Not sure he is a good fit for what Grant likes to do

Smith: C
Work on your shot
If you were not related to Scoochie, not sure you are even at UD

Mike: C
Good freshman year – lots of growth
Limited minutes, not a great sign given the team depth

Elvis : C
Not sure what he brings to the table
Is a PG? SG? He really did not excel at either

Brea: C-
K000000000000by needs to score (yes, those are zeroes)
Why else is he on the team?

Blakney: D-
Please transfer
You don’t want to be here, so just leave already

Zimi: F
Not sure he is a D1 player, at least not A10 level

Amaefule: F
Not sure if he is a D1 player, at least not A10 level

Uhl: incomplete
Lots of effort and heart – what else can a walk-on do?

Grant: D
Got the team to the final despite injuries – that has to count for something
Failed – again – to make the NCAA, the stated goal of the program
If we are keeping him there because he is a nice guy and an alum, then what does that say about the program?
Roster has an open spot – no reason to not have a scholarship player there
Two transfers out – Washington and Baker – no real reasons given
Nothing from Zimi or Richard – scholarship players – despite a short bench
Blakney – DNP with a short bench, then looked disinterested when he did play
This is five years of wasted chances, not just one game.

It is time for Grant to take leave of the team and for the search to start immediately

[CoffeeCan]

Let's say Grant leaves... or is fired... or "parts ways"... what level of school is hiring him?
Honest question.

Because if we had an opening and a HC with his resume was on the market - there is no way we would or should hire a coach with his resume.

[DGO67]

Brian Gregory is available.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Let's say Grant leaves... or is fired... or "parts ways"... what level of school is hiring him? Honest question. Because if we had an opening and a HC with his resume was on the market - there is no way we would or should hire a coach with his resume.

We got him on the way down. He peaked long ago.

Think he could go back to the pros as an assistant. Clearly he’d have his pick of any number of lower level schools.

Or maybe he could pull a Shauna Green and take Camara and Deuce to a school that had some competent guards.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoffeeCan]

I, like everyone on this board, wanted Grant to work out. It just didnt happen.

It is time.

[zmz723]

What an absolute waste of an amazing talent with Daron. How you don’t surround a top 50 big man recruit with guards/shooters is beyond me
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by zmz723 What an absolute waste of an amazing talent with Daron Posted via Mobile Device

Astounding that he could leave here without a tourney appearance
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hyde Park Flyer]

He’s a big who can run the court. I’ve seen him lead the fast break. Camara is an athletic guy who can run the court. It’s a pity that they weren’t used more in fastbreak situations. Well, it’s too bad we didn’t run the fastbreak more often.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer He’s a big who can run the court. I’ve seen him lead the fast break. Camara is an athletic guy who can run the court. It’s a pity that they weren’t used more in fastbreak situations. Well, it’s too bad we didn’t run the fastbreak more often. Posted via Mobile Device

You cannot run the fast-break if you are waiting 5 seconds to get the play from the coach every time down the court. That has really been costly this year.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Spot on, Tommy.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoffeeCan]

2022 http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35809

2021 http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34892

See any patterns?

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan 2022 http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35809 2021 http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34892 See any patterns?

Below is a good one. If Mail was the liability last year we never corrected the issue this year. I’ll start looking for a new team I guess.

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Anyone with a brain knew that without Mali, this team really struggles on offense. If you’re so disappointed in the results go follow another team. As long as Dayton is in the A10, it’s going to be very difficult to secure a bid unless you outright win the A10 or run the conference tournament. And the at-large sentiment has changed drastically in even the last few years to essentially reduce any team outside of the power 5 conferences to no more than 2 bids. There is very little margin for error; unlike the Big East where X is STILL in the conversation for an at-large despite a pathetic end year. Just the way it is. I’m fine with our coach; don’t like him? Follow another team Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Below is a good one. If Mail was the liability last year we never corrected the issue this year. I’ll start looking for a new team I guess.

See ya

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Let's say Grant leaves... or is fired... or "parts ways"... what level of school is hiring him? Honest question.

Serious question as well, who are we getting? And anyone aswering, please leave out the Grant apologist stuff. This is an honest question. What specific coach are we going after?

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Serious question as well, who are we getting? And anyone aswering, please leave out the Grant apologist stuff. This is an honest question. What specific coach are we going after?

Was AG fired or did he resign? Serious question.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Was AG fired or did he resign? Serious question.

I knew I couldn't ask that and not get flamed. A lot are calling for his head. I just want to know who his replacement is going to be. You know, instead of just complaining, offering an alternative, a solution.

I wanted to leave out all of the the love/hate Grant crap. For the record, I don't want him fired. I like him. I think Dayton fans thinking they can do better is delusional. But that really doesn't matter. I don't want the thread to be about that. We have plenty of those. And why do we really care where he goes? I just want to know who the suggested replacement is going to be. Is that ok?

[UD62]

I'm in the AG stays camp, but should he go, next year's team will make this years women's team look like a huge success.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I think Dayton fans thinking they can do better is delusional.

This in a nutshell is the problem with Dayton basketball. This mindset.

I'll give the guy one more year. And before you ask "If not Grant then who?"....at over 340k per year it's up to Neil to figure out.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by shocka43 This in a nutshell is the problem with Dayton basketball. This mindset. I'll give the guy one more year. And before you ask "If not Grant then who?"....at over 340k per year it's up to Neil to figure out.

Seriously, why can't you name one coach you'd rather have and can possibly get? Everybody says, "ged rid of him", but that's only half of the issue. You can't put it on Neil when you might want Grant gone. Offer a solution!

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I knew I couldn't ask that and not get flamed. A lot are calling for his head. I just want to know who his replacement is going to be. You know, instead of just complaining, offering an alternative, a solution. I wanted to leave out all of the the love/hate Grant crap. For the record, I don't want him fired. I like him. I think Dayton fans thinking they can do better is delusional. But that really doesn't matter. I don't want the thread to be about that. We have plenty of those. And why do we really care where he goes? I just want to know who the suggested replacement is going to be. Is that ok?

I seriously thought you'd heard he was leaving. Agree that Dayton fans are delusional but who am I to judge. I listened to Larry's final (I think) interview with AG after the press conference. I could be wrong but he may just resign but I don't think it would have anything to do with this teams success or failures this year. He sounded tired with a lot on his mind that doesn't have to do with basketball.

[FlyerinChicago]

You think it’s bad now, wait until you see the next 3-4 years. If you get what you’re asking for—it won’t be pretty. This program is gonna sink like a boulder in a lake.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I seriously thought you'd heard he was leaving. Agree that Dayton fans are delusional but who am I to judge. I listened to Larry's final (I think) interview with AG after the press conference. I could be wrong but he may just resign but I don't think it would have anything to do with this teams success or failures this year. He sounded tired with a lot on his mind that doesn't have to do with basketball.

I apologize. I thought you were being sarcastic. I hope he doesn't resign.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I apologize. I thought you were being sarcastic. I hope he doesn't resign.

I hope he doesn't either but I got a feeling it could happen.

[Monster Man]

If CAG resigned/retired, I would be happy if Ricardo Greer was promoted to Head Coach. He’s relatively young, high energy, and is getting interest from other schools.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago You think it’s bad now, wait until you see the next 3-4 years. If you get what you’re asking for—it won’t be pretty. This program is gonna sink like a boulder in a lake. Posted via Mobile Device

What makes you think that? Do you really think that AG is bigger than the program? UD has plenty of resources to recover from a setback, if indeed there was a setback.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Falcon7]

It will easy to find the next:
Archie
Brian
Oliver
Jim

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Seriously, why can't you name one coach you'd rather have and can possibly get? Everybody says, "ged rid of him", but that's only half of the issue. You can't put it on Neil when you might want Grant gone. Offer a solution!

I agree with this approach. Supposedly there were dozens of PGs dying to come here last year and AG said no to all of them and these criers get away without this kind of argument without naming a single guy that would have come here if asked.

Expecting them to name a guy to replace AG is reasonable so the reasonableness of 'your guy' can be debated - both willingness and upgrade y/n.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago You think it’s bad now, wait until you see the next 3-4 years. If you get what you’re asking for—it won’t be pretty. This program is gonna sink like a boulder in a lake. Posted via Mobile Device

Given 45 years of Flyer underachieving I've witnessed and supposedly 1/4 in coach replacements in the last 25+ years, this opinion is every bit as reasonable as the 'just get a better guy' approach the criers provide.

The problem is, they won't let you have this opinion or concern. They'll dominate the discussion, question your intelligence or claim 'it's all your fault for thinking this way'.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago You think it’s bad now, wait until you see the next 3-4 years. If you get what you’re asking for—it won’t be pretty. This program is gonna sink like a boulder in a lake. Posted via Mobile Device

This is funny.

Like politicians using fear tactics.

But, let me get this straight. Archie Miller should've stayed at our program, rather than test the waters of Indiana, that will sink like a boulder without Anthony Grant?

So we hired Oliver Purnell and didn't sink like a boulder. We hired Brian Gregory and didn't sink like a boulder. We hired Archie Miller and flew like a space shuttle and we hired Anthony Grant who, umm, returned that shuttle back to earth. But our next hire is going to destroy us like the atomic bomb on Hiroshima?

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Serious question as well, who are we getting? And anyone aswering, please leave out the Grant apologist stuff. This is an honest question. What specific coach are we going after?

If we have an opening, I don’t have any names of potential successors, but I have a general profile:

-Has successfully managed a lower-tier program, in terms of notable on-court success, minimal-to-zero off-court problems, and a respectable graduation rate of his players.

-Recruits players who are undervalued in the marketplace, who have chips on their shoulders and are “gym rats” who are determined to improve their skill sets.

-As a corollary, strives to achieve class balance while maintaining the above objectives, in the interest of program continuity.

-Commands the respect of his players.

That’s a good start.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 If we have an opening, I don’t have any names of potential successors, but I have a general profile: -Has successfully managed a lower-tier program, in terms of notable on-court success, minimal-to-zero off-court problems, and a respectable graduation rate of his players. -Recruits players who are undervalued in the marketplace, who have chips on their shoulders and are “gym rats” who are determined to improve their skill sets. -As a corollary, strives to achieve class balance while maintaining the above objectives, in the interest of program continuity. -Commands the respect of his players. That’s a good start. Posted via Mobile Device

Thank you. That's a great start. But it shouldn't be hard to go further. We know the coach can't be a 2nd place finisher because that is what Grant has mostly been at Dayton. So that eliminates 95%. So what lower tier program coach out there has been to multiple tournaments and would be willing to coach at Dayton? I don't know, but someone must have a suggestion.

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago You think it’s bad now, wait until you see the next 3-4 years. If you get what you’re asking for—it won’t be pretty. This program is gonna sink like a boulder in a lake. Posted via Mobile Device

Who cares? AG can’t make the NCAA tournament, so may as well try to find the next Archie
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Thank you. That's a great start. But it shouldn't be hard to go further. We know the coach can't be a 2nd place finisher because that is what Grant has mostly been at Dayton. So that eliminates 95%. So what lower tier program coach out there has been to multiple tournaments and would be willing to coach at Dayton? I don't know, but someone must have a suggestion.

it's an unanswerable question because the Dayton job isn't open and no one has any idea who would take the job

[FlyerinChicago]

Laugh all you want, my b*tch going into the new season-which also fell on deaf ears-was to get at least 2 guards in the off-season. It would have made a huge difference, and yes perhaps that was Grants decision. But I never trusted Mali, he isn’t the answer. But you go ahead and fire Grant, watch what little talent we have leave…and start from scratch. We were a few shots from the tournament if any guard could make a shot today. The delusion here is unreal.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Furio]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 If we have an opening, I don’t have any names of potential successors, but I have a general profile: -Has successfully managed a lower-tier program, in terms of notable on-court success, minimal-to-zero off-court problems, and a respectable graduation rate of his players. -Recruits players who are undervalued in the marketplace, who have chips on their shoulders and are “gym rats” who are determined to improve their skill sets. -As a corollary, strives to achieve class balance while maintaining the above objectives, in the interest of program continuity. -Commands the respect of his players. That’s a good start. Posted via Mobile Device

So you would not consider an assistant coach with a background like archie miller or brian gregory?

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago Laugh all you want, my b*tch going into the new season-which also fell on deaf ears-was to get at least 2 guards in the off-season. It would have made a huge difference, and yes perhaps that was Grants decision. But I never trusted Mali, he isn’t the answer. But you go ahead and fire Grant, watch what little talent we have leave…and start from scratch. We were a few shots from the tournament if any guard could make a shot today. The delusion here is unreal. Posted via Mobile Device

If Camara and Deuce leave, with AG staying, what difference will those better guards make? And of course, it's almost a given we're going to lose others we counted on.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Seriously, why can't you name one coach you'd rather have and can possibly get? Everybody says, "ged rid of him", but that's only half of the issue. You can't put it on Neil when you might want Grant gone. Offer a solution!

You can't put it on Neil? Then who can you put it on? We went from the penthouse to the outhouse.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UD62 I'm in the AG stays camp, but should he go, next year's team will make this years women's team look like a huge success.

That didn't happen with Archie, his first team did better than BG's last team.

[TX Flyer]

Go all in on Pat Kelsey. There is a name so now you all can tell me why AG is so much better

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer it's an unanswerable question because the Dayton job isn't open and no one has any idea who would take the job

Why can you speculate on him leaving but can't speculate on his replacement?

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Go all in on Pat Kelsey. There is a name so now you all can tell me why AG is so much better

That's exactly what who I was going to suggest.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Why can you speculate on him leaving but can't speculate on his replacement?

For the same reason when BG left we didn't know who to replace him with, but knew we needed to find better and they were out there. Not one person mentioned Archie, yet he was the right choice. Man was he the right choice.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Serious question as well, who are we getting? And anyone aswering, please leave out the Grant apologist stuff. This is an honest question. What specific coach are we going after?

Answer my question coward.

As for who we get, put it on indeed.com for I care.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Go all in on Pat Kelsey. There is a name so now you all can tell me why AG is so much better

Thanks. Don't know if he'd be better. He did just get an extension. He's making $1 mil and Grant makes $1.8 so there is room to make him a better offer. Would Dayton pay the $1 mil buyout? Georgia Tech is rumored to be looking at him and they were paying Pastner $3 mil. So they are clearly willing to pay more and may be a better job. Could Dayton get him?

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Answer my question coward. As for who we get, put it on indeed.com for I care.

Why do I care where Grant goes?

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Why can you speculate on him leaving but can't speculate on his replacement?

A coach leaving is black and white.

Who would take the job is speculation
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Why do I care where Grant goes?

What kind of school does he go to?
You seem to know all about him.
So please tell me.

[OSU Flyer]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum

4 time division 2 national champion
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer A coach leaving is black and white. Who would take the job is speculation Posted via Mobile Device

People are speculating on him leaving.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan What kind of school does he go to? You seem to know all about him. So please tell me.

I never made that claim at all. Just wanted to know who his replacement from the people who want him gone.

[CT Flyer]

I'm guessing Ray Harper is available...

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I never made that claim at all. Just wanted to know who his replacement from the people who want him gone.

And I want to know what kind of school he goes to...
Because a huge part of this board thinks he a great coach...
and thus where he goes should be at least equivalent to UD.
Then we can pick a coach based on that profile.
Maybe we are not as good of a program as we all think we are

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum 4 time division 2 national champion Posted via Mobile Device

I had no idea who he was but I love him! I'm on board with that hire. He apeears to be able to coach. I especially love this quote:

Not surprisingly, McCollum’s phone has been alive the past few years as Division I administrators gauge his interest in moving to college basketball’s highest level. And while that time may come, McCollum is clear that it would take the perfect opportunity to pry him away from the dynasty he’s built in the small northwest Missouri town of Maryville. “I’m not the type that’s self-promoting. It’s just not what I do,” McCollum explained. “I’m not constantly out there searching for the next place to go. If that place comes to find me and it’s a match, that’s probably how it will end up happening. If I do leave at some point. But the right fit is probably a bigger version of what we have here.”

That's exactly the type of coach dayton needs.

[forego1]

someone was skeptically asking for names of coaching candidates:

Someone mentioned that getting a prospective pool was not an issue, but rather finding the right person.
It is not as if a pool with potential upside won't present.

I get that it isn't a power 5, but still don't understand that people regard UD as an undesirable job.

Is it the fear that UD won't make any NCAA tournaments?
They are not doing that now.

Daniyal Robinson
Rob Senderoff
Mike Anderson
Rick Pitino
AM

What are the odds of winning an NCAA T. game with AG?
I remember something about this hire associated with the words "deep tournament runs." Ya have to be in the field first.

I am venting LOL

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan And I want to know what kind of school he goes to... Because a huge part of this board thinks he a great coach... and thus where he goes should be at least equivalent to UD. Then we can pick a coach based on that profile. Maybe we are not as good of a program as we all think we are

Once again, I don't care where he would go. If we need someone else to tell us what type of coach we need, we have bigger problems.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Once again, I don't care where he would go. If we need someone else to tell us what type of coach we need, we have bigger problems.

Isn’t that the point of hiring firms to get a quality candidate(s)? Is it not Neil’s job to know who he’d want if AG decided tomorrow he wanted to retire? If you never look for a candidate you can’t find them. I guess we wait for all the Holmes of the world to reach out to us before we make any decisions

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Isn’t that the point of hiring firms to get a quality candidate(s)? Is it not Neil’s job to know who he’d want if AG decided tomorrow he wanted to retire? If you never look for a candidate you can’t find them. I guess we wait for all the Holmes of the world to reach out to us before we make any decisions

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. I was responding to Coffee's suggestion that we need to know who else would hire Grant to determine the type coach we should get. It's back-asswards. That's entirely different from forming or hiring a search committee.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. I was responding to Coffee's suggestion that we need to know who else would hire Grant to determine the type coach we should get. It's back-asswards. That's entirely different from forming or hiring a search committee.

I just want ANYBODY to answer my question -

Everyone here knows Grant's track record. If he does coach elsewhere, what kind of program does he go to? I am guessing not Duke. But is it lower than A10?

And if so, does that make the opening look worse than it is, if our former coach does not "trade up" like BG or Purnell or AM?

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I just want ANYBODY to answer my question - Everyone here knows Grant's track record. If he does coach elsewhere, what kind of program does he go to? I am guessing not Duke. But is it lower than A10? And if so, does that make the opening look worse than it is, if our former coach does not "trade up" like BG or Purnell or AM?

Clearly he wouldn't be trading up. I'd guess he wouldn't go anywhere and would take time off.

ETA, I know I didn't answer your question so I'll try to answer with this. I'm not sure where he would specifically go but my guess it would be on the same conference level, similar to Archie.

[FLYER5]

I like Ricardo Greer too, on any short list.

[m21eagle45]

I posted this in another thread, but Darian Devries from Drake.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 I posted this in another thread, but Darian Devries from Drake.

Yep, probably get his son for two years too

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Well, that sucked. Again. But as a Flyer Fan I guess I should be used to it now... Sad. Here are the grades for the team as we count the days until the next Lindenwood game or whatever ****ty team we will play to start November Camara : A Tons of heart Best of luck in Europe Holmes : A Please come back Keep hitting the weight room Amzil: B Good role player Not sure he is a good fit for what Grant likes to do Smith: C Work on your shot If you were not related to Scoochie, not sure you are even at UD Mike: C Good freshman year – lots of growth Limited minutes, not a great sign given the team depth Elvis : C Not sure what he brings to the table Is a PG? SG? He really did not excel at either Brea: C- K000000000000by needs to score (yes, those are zeroes) Why else is he on the team? Blakney: D- Please transfer You don’t want to be here, so just leave already Zimi: F Not sure he is a D1 player, at least not A10 level Amaefule: F Not sure if he is a D1 player, at least not A10 level Uhl: incomplete Lots of effort and heart – what else can a walk-on do? Grant: D Got the team to the final despite injuries – that has to count for something Failed – again – to make the NCAA, the stated goal of the program If we are keeping him there because he is a nice guy and an alum, then what does that say about the program? Roster has an open spot – no reason to not have a scholarship player there Two transfers out – Washington and Baker – no real reasons given Nothing from Zimi or Richard – scholarship players – despite a short bench Blakney – DNP with a short bench, then looked disinterested when he did play This is five years of wasted chances, not just one game. It is time for Grant to take leave of the team and for the search to start immediately

Let's get it back to grading players, and if you like coached.

Camara and Holmes I believe you got mostly right.

I'll say A minus for Camara. Turnovers were a negative in like 1/3 of the games. But great rebounder. Good shot blocker/rim protector.

Holmes a solid A. We know about his defense and shot blocking. Offensive skills have grown. Keep hitting those weights my friend.

Blakeny. Guy has regressed. Great D mostly. Shooting very inconsistent. Good energy. A fir defense. C or worse on offense

Malachi. Think we saw his best last year. And he'll likely never hit the game winners his brother did. Gets slight break due to his foot injurirs.injuries.. a tale of two players. When playing well he's a solid B. When not C OR C-

BREA. one player I think it's best he hits the portal. I feel badly for the guy. Most likely hes better on a fast paced club. Not gonna grade him. But it isn't pretty

Mike. B- yeah he needs to muscle up. He needs use his foot and not his arms on defense. But his upside is good. As a former 1/2 guard myself Mike has great court vision. Not enough minutes given in my opinion

I think his ceiling is an. A minus level player.

Amzil. Another tale of two players. B-
But when playing well as in first half of Championship game he's an A - player or B + level. Good rebounder. Some hustle points.

But also some lack of hustle and stupid plays/turnovers. Can heat up too from outside

Elvis. C-. And I'm bring kind. Not a good enough shooter for what we require. Hope he chooses the exit door too.

I'll save Grant and coaching for a future post

[FlyerinChicago]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 If Camara and Deuce leave, with AG staying, what difference will those better guards make? And of course, it's almost a given we're going to lose others we counted on.

There is no one I’d miss but Camara Holmes Amzil and MM.. the rest can hit the road.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

VCU has made the NCAA in four of the six years Grant has been here. They have made it 13 times with 5 different coaches since 2004.

So let's see we can't be successful in the A10, and if we change coaches we are doomed. Got it.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Be careful with all the name dropping and speculation on a possible new coach. A certain moderator might get his panties in a wad and move this thread to off topic, just like the thread from last night was moved.

Edit- At least two threads from last night were relocated.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Be careful with all the name dropping and speculation on a possible new coach. A certain moderator might get his panties in a wad and move this thread to off topic, just like the thread from last night was moved. Edit- At least two threads from last night were relocated.

Does that moderator have the initials TT and puts more emojis in his messages and posts then he does letters?

[Don]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Seriously, why can't you name one coach you'd rather have and can possibly get? Everybody says, "ged rid of him", but that's only half of the issue. You can't put it on Neil when you might want Grant gone. Offer a solution!

That's a ridiculous request. A competent AD, and I think Neil is, ALWAYS has a list of prospective coaches in his top drawer....and listed in descending order of preference. One never knows too far in advance when a coach (a) decides to leave for greener pastures, (b) flops and needs to be replaced, (c) decides to retire. In compiling this list the competent AD has already done a great deal of research into W/L track record, player relationships, recruiting successes/failures, personality characteristics, etc, etc, etc. To ask a fan who thinks we need a change to propose a specific individual for a new coach demonstrates a complete ignorance of the process that goes into the situation.
When each of our previous four coaches were hired I'm sure this was the process followed, and all were far better than the O'Brien hire, which I think resulted from a great many coaches (in the brotherhood and led by B. Knight) snubbing UD for firing Donoher. The cupboard was not full of good and willing prospects.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Does that moderator have the initials TT and puts more emojis in his messages and posts then he does letters?

My guess was it is the one who likes to repost tweets off Twitter all day long, yet claims he is never on Twitter.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan My guess was it is the one who likes to repost tweets off Twitter all day long, yet claims he is never on Twitter.

You might be right, but I never thought he was the type to move threads that he posted in just because his opinion is being laughed at. He has to be used to that. This has the fingerprints of TT all over it. Especially the Poll that got moved.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Don That's a ridiculous request. A competent AD, and I think Neil is, ALWAYS has a list of prospective coaches in his top drawer....and listed in descending order of preference. One never knows too far in advance when a coach (a) decides to leave for greener pastures, (b) flops and needs to be replaced, (c) decides to retire. In compiling this list the competent AD has already done a great deal of research into W/L track record, player relationships, recruiting successes/failures, personality characteristics, etc, etc, etc. To ask a fan who thinks we need a change to propose a specific individual for a new coach demonstrates a complete ignorance of the process that goes into the situation.

But see...Buckeye thinks Grant is the best we can do and all the University deserves.

Grant flat out isn't getting it done. We've said it over and over... he is not meeting his own boss' expectations. Those expectations are built around the University's expectations and the big donors expectations. Those are who he answers to.

Not saying he needs to go this year. But the seat must be getting warm as his only saving grace is Obi Toppin. UD has to be proactive and not reactive as they have in the past. If not, we are back dealing with the Gregory years of futility again.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 But see...Buckeye thinks Grant is the best we can do and all the University deserves. Grant flat out isn't getting it done. We've said it over and over... he is not meeting his own boss' expectations. Those expectations are built around the University's expectations and the big donors expectations. Those are who he answers to. Not saying he needs to go this year. But the seat must be getting warm as his only saving grace is Obi Toppin. UD has to be proactive and not reactive as they have in the past. If not, we are back dealing with the Gregory years of futility again.

I think we're already dealing with them.

[jack72]

How about X? Four years of Steele with no NCAA, so they fire him and hire Miller. They are 13th ranked and a three seed. And no I am not saying hire Sean here, but it is doable.

[TN Flyer]

Some of you all would sell your soul to the devil to be a contender! I saw someone mention Rick Pitino! REALLY??? Another wrote about the success X is having with Sean Miller! No problems with the Arizona program, right?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by TN Flyer Some of you all would sell your soul to the devil to be a contender! I saw someone mention Rick Pitino! REALLY??? Another wrote about the success X is having with Sean Miller! No problems with the Arizona program, right?

Guess what, Arizona and Xavier are thriving right now. So is Iona. But if Dayton continues on this path, with the landscape of college basketball changing, they will be left behind and find themselves in a conference duking it out with Wright St. That sounds so much better doesn't it?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[TN Flyer]

So lie, cheat and steal? Whatever it takes, whether the school gets a black eye or not. We’re two years removed from being a #1 seed in the tournament, but now CAG has forgotten how to coach? At least he got a young team to be competitive for the league title, at the same time he is a class act who does it the right way.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by TN Flyer So lie, cheat and steal? Whatever it takes, whether the school gets a black eye or not. We’re two years removed from being a #1 seed in the tournament, but now CAG has forgotten how to coach? At least he got a young team to be competitive for the league title, at the same time he is a class act who does it the right way.

Three years removed, not two. Three years of failing to build on our biggest publicity ever. We were on Sportscenter consistently. ESPN College GameDay came to UD Arena. And three years later, we've done nothing additive. Ask yourself why had the least amount of experience last year. Who is responsible for putting together that roster.

Now, as to the first part of your question, for me, the answer is no, I don't want scumbag coaches, just because they win. Because I believe you can do it the right way and still be successful. I said I didn't even want Archie back, due to various issues during his tenure. I appreciated his success, and I suspect the U swept a lot of stuff under the rug. I'm not really privy to all that. But I've heard enough to say no. For other guys, I'd say no as well. But AG is not the only good, clean coach out there, and apart from one year, has under-achieved for his resources, his roster, and against the goals of the athletic department.

[CT Flyer]

Jay Wright seemed clean and he was very successful...he available too...

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by TN Flyer So lie, cheat and steal? Whatever it takes, whether the school gets a black eye or not. We’re two years removed from being a #1 seed in the tournament, but now CAG has forgotten how to coach? At least he got a young team to be competitive for the league title, at the same time he is a class act who does it the right way.

Just to point our we weren’t a 1 seed. Probable, yes

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer Jay Wright seemed clean and he was very successful...he available too...

I think he’s retired and likely way out of the salary range that UD would pay but IF AG leaves, I’d be OK with Jay for one main reason besides his obvious success: I’d never have to read a comment about his coaching decisions.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by TN Flyer So lie, cheat and steal? Whatever it takes, whether the school gets a black eye or not.

What in the hell do you think some of the BG years and some of the AM years were?

The only reason our program wasn't the face of SportsCenter was because we were fairly irrelevant in the scheme of college basketball.

Don't act like this program has been squeaky clean. We are 10 years away from walkons p!ssing for starters so we had players to play.

[zmz723]

The BG years were absolutely NOT squeaky clean. I can guarantee that
Posted via Mobile Device

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by TN Flyer So lie, cheat and steal? Whatever it takes, whether the school gets a black eye or not. We’re two years removed from being a #1 seed in the tournament, but now CAG has forgotten how to coach? At least he got a young team to be competitive for the league title, at the same time he is a class act who does it the right way.

Tell me, what is cheating now? NIL has changed that. Schools do not need to cheat anymore to win or get recruits.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Tell me, what is cheating now? NIL has changed that. Schools do not need to cheat anymore to win or get recruits.

When Pitino and Miller did it, it was definitely cheating. They are still cheaters.

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark When Pitino and Miller did it, it was definitely cheating. They are still cheaters. _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

Then yes, but the rules have changed. You play within the current rules. Also, while I think Pitino knew exactly what was going on, Pitino was cleared of any wrongdoing by the NCAA.

FYI, I do not want Pitino as coach. I am just pointing out, it's hard to define cheating now with NIL. Kids can tell donors what they want to go to that school and they can get it for doing a couple appearances or just agreeing to retweet any post a company makes on twitter.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 What in the hell do you think some of the BG years and some of the AM years were? The only reason our program wasn't the face of SportsCenter was because we were fairly irrelevant in the scheme of college basketball. Don't act like this program has been squeaky clean. We are 10 years away from walkons p!ssing for starters so we had players to play.

What kind of drug testing doesn't involve the tester watching the player produce a urine sample?

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Probation officers don’t watch convicts ****. Does it surprise you that no one is watching a dude on a team ****?
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer Probation officers don’t watch convicts ****. Does it surprise you that no one is watching a dude on a team ****? Posted via Mobile Device

Myself, the tester, says to the player or convict:

Go into the bathroom stall and produce a urine sample. I will be standing here waiting right next to the stall as you produce your sample.

I also am going to pat you down and ask you to empty your pockets before you enter the stall, to make sure that you are not smuggling somebody else's urine sample into the stall.

Is that not what is happening?

And what about the temperature of the sample? A fresh sample is going to be warm. Any smuggled-in sample will not be warm.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 Myself, the tester, says to the player or convict: Go into the bathroom stall and produce a urine sample. I will be standing here waiting right next to the stall as you produce your sample. I also am going to pat you down and ask you to empty your pockets before you enter the stall, to make sure that you are not smuggling somebody else's urine sample into the stall. Is that not what is happening? And what about the temperature of the sample? A fresh sample is going to be warm. Any smuggled-in sample will not be warm.

First of all, does the NCAA govern the process and procedures? In other words is it an NCAA rule that all these precautions you suggest are part of drug testing rules of the NCAA?

If not than the answer is Penal institutions want to find out who's doping. College athletics just want their players on the court and don't care how they pass. The will do the minimal required because of that.

[Glen Clark]

Welcome to the off-season, folks.

__________________
That rug really tied the room together . . .
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 First of all, does the NCAA govern the process and procedures? In other words is it an NCAA rule that all these precautions you suggest are part of drug testing rules of the NCAA?

Yes!

My son had to do them every year in school (baseball). Too many funny stories about how the players would attempt to make eye contact with the collection people, or how they entered the testing area, how they dressed, etc. Yes, they have to watch the athletes pee into the cup.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Yes! My son had to do them every year in school (baseball). Too many funny stories about how the players would attempt to make eye contact with the collection people, or how they entered the testing area, how they dressed, etc. Yes, they have to watch the athletes pee into the cup.

Ok. So how would walk-ons, for Archie's 2013 team apparently(shocka's initial post referenced 10 years ago), cheat the system by producing samples for other players?

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff Yes! My son had to do them every year in school (baseball). Too many funny stories about how the players would attempt to make eye contact with the collection people, or how they entered the testing area, how they dressed, etc. Yes, they have to watch the athletes pee into the cup.

Trust me, they aren’t right beside the person staring at their junk making sure it’s their pee. You make this sound much more intimate than it is