UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > UDPRIDE SPORTS FORUMS > Mens Basketball

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:07 AM
jack72's Avatar
jack72 jack72 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 11,798
Thanks: 9,645
Thanked 5,415 Times in 3,063 Posts
jack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond repute
What is holding UD basketball back?

As long as UD keeps doing the same things over and over, the results will be the same. What are those things? Not for us necessarily to answer, but we can speculate. The AD, his staff and the basketball coaches need to indentify the things that made X, Duke, Gonzaga and Butler successful. Are they doing that? Certainly not anywhere close to the extent they need to.

I'll throw one out, we are spoiled with the entire high attendance thing. UD had not turned it into excellence on the court, but instead made it our cocoon of comfort. Those four schools brag that they win, and we brag that we have great support. Less support is not the answer. It is doing something more constructive with it that will help.

As they say, it is never too late, and the future starts today.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:38 AM
Ready Action Ready Action is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 428
Thanked 571 Times in 278 Posts
Ready Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant future
I beg to differ as "We" are a big part of the problem. There's support and then you have the Bengals. Do we want to continue down this path of support no matter what? In simple terms most people want a positive return on their investment(s). Now, you can hold out for a while and say it's a long term investment, however at some point if you do not see some type of return your investment/contribution will become smaller and smaller. I'm not talking about just this season, but the past 20 seasons or so. I understand most programs have some highs and lows from time to time, but I long for this program to take the step to the next level and sustain the success. The way this program has been going from year to year you can never tell if it is closer to the next level or the JOB years. I'm still invested, however this stuff is rough!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:00 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,964
Thanks: 4,108
Thanked 4,753 Times in 2,338 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
I agree that the big home support is not the problem. Without that money it would be worse.

There are lots of reasons to point out but to me it comes down to - UD missed the window of opportunity when conferences started and has been playing catch up since. The environment in CBB has been changing, making it even harder for UD to catch up.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Radar (01-03-2018)
  #4  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:20 AM
Schraff01 Schraff01 is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 401
Thanks: 1
Thanked 98 Times in 57 Posts
Schraff01 will become famous soon enoughSchraff01 will become famous soon enough
One of the biggest differences I have seen over the years in comparing Dayton to these other programs is that when a coach leaves they hire from within (especially when you look at X & Butler). This keeps continuity and seems to keep recruits. All the momentum that AM created at Dayton seems to now be lost because they hired from outside and kind of starting all over in hopes that AG is right guy.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Schraff01 For This Totally Excellent Post:
UACFlyer (01-03-2018), ud2 (01-03-2018)
  #5  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:23 AM
ud86's Avatar
ud86 ud86 is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 656
Thanks: 28
Thanked 205 Times in 81 Posts
ud86 is a jewel in the roughud86 is a jewel in the roughud86 is a jewel in the roughud86 is a jewel in the rough
I think the biggest problem is that we always seem to go downhill when a new coach is named. X, Butler, others seem to not really miss a beat when a coach leaves -- usually because they have one of their assistant coaches take over the program. I don't know if we would be in better shape had one of AM's assistants been named coach. Maybe AG is much better choice that those options -- too early to tell. The one change is that UD MUST start the process of grooming one or two assistants to be able to take over the program (a Head coach could become Ill, or leave for another job). I guess in the past, the assistants were not good enough to take over the program. First minor step, UD needs to pay the assistants more money so that we can keep very-well qualified coaches that could take over the program if the head coach leaves.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to ud86 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-03-2018)
  #6  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:28 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Agree

Originally Posted by Schraff01 View Post
One of the biggest differences I have seen over the years in comparing Dayton to these other programs is that when a coach leaves they hire from within (especially when you look at X & Butler). This keeps continuity and seems to keep recruits. All the momentum that AM created at Dayton seems to now be lost because they hired from outside and kind of starting all over in hopes that AG is right guy.
It's often said that the most important job a CEO has is planning for his succession. I would like to see Neil explain to AG that a very high priority is having at least one assistant that could succeed him (AG).

That's not always possible, of course. But, if it's not even a consideration the chances of it happening become very small. In contrast, if it's always on the minds of Neil and AG the probability rises considerably. AG is an experienced coach......he understands what it takes.

Xavier and Butler are good examples....both UD peers....they've been able to do it. Gonzaga...also a peer....has been lucky to have long term continuity without a coaching change. Villanova has one of the best coaches in the country...and VU is not a stepping stone.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-03-2018, 11:36 AM
rollo's Avatar
rollo rollo is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BaseballPlex
Posts: 12,326
Thanks: 12,340
Thanked 10,806 Times in 4,864 Posts
rollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond reputerollo has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Xavier and Butler are good examples....both UD peers....they've been able to do it. Gonzaga...also a peer....has been lucky to have long term continuity without a coaching change. Villanova has one of the best coaches in the country...and VU is not a stepping stone.
If X, Butler and Gonzaga are our peers, this thread wouldn't be necessary. For all UD offers and stands for, with respect to men's basketball, we -literally and figuratively - aren't in their league.
__________________
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." Plato
Reply With Quote
5 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to rollo For This Totally Excellent Post:
FLYER5 (01-06-2018), m21eagle45 (01-05-2018), NJFlyr71 (01-03-2018), Phi Psi Flyer '09 (01-05-2018), ud2 (01-03-2018)
  #8  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:27 PM
TXFlyerFan TXFlyerFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 770
Thanks: 564
Thanked 579 Times in 271 Posts
TXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond reputeTXFlyerFan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If X, Butler and Gonzaga are our peers, this thread wouldn't be necessary. For all UD offers and stands for, with respect to men's basketball, we -literally and figuratively - aren't in their league.
Aren't our peers, but should be.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to TXFlyerFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
ud2 (01-03-2018)
  #9  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:50 PM
TommyGola's Avatar
TommyGola TommyGola is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,661
Thanks: 1,118
Thanked 1,678 Times in 909 Posts
TommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond reputeTommyGola has a reputation beyond repute
We have been discussing the bar of success established by these three teams for a long time. I would argue very strongly that if we would have had Big Steve and Cunningham last year, and this year for that matter as it relates to Big Steve, that things would be considerably different. We have lost several centers and power forwards over the last five years and it shows when we play against bigger, athletic players. That was the case when Archie was here as well. I also think the loss of McKinley Wright was huge as well. I think he was a special talent for the point. I like Crutcher, but he has not made the immediate impact that Wright is making at Colorado. Keep in mind something else, in the Brian Gregory era, we hit a plateau that we could never exceed. Archie elevated us during his era, but now things have caught up with the program, as graduations and withdrawals from scholarships have taken their toll.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to TommyGola For This Totally Excellent Post:
ChampCar (01-03-2018)
  #10  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:56 PM
Radar Radar is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,129
Thanks: 1,267
Thanked 1,425 Times in 688 Posts
Radar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If X, Butler and Gonzaga are our peers, this thread wouldn't be necessary. For all UD offers and stands for, with respect to men's basketball, we -literally and figuratively - aren't in their league.
More literally...UD got caught as a program in transition during the Big East transformation, therefore we were left behind. Had we latched on to that train, IMO, AM would still be here and sustainability would be our only problem. But, as others have stated, we're back in catch-up mode.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Radar For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (01-03-2018), FLYER5 (01-06-2018)
  #11  
Old 01-03-2018, 01:42 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
A bit too harsh, me thinks,...

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If X, Butler and Gonzaga are our peers, this thread wouldn't be necessary. For all UD offers and stands for, with respect to men's basketball, we -literally and figuratively - aren't in their league.
No doubt the three schools mentioned have been way more successful than UD over the past decades, plus. Nonetheless, they are peer programs....and UD is coming off four consecutive trips to the NCAAs....unimaginable ten years ago.

Also, we are among the very best in attendance and in two years or so we will, once again, have one of the very best college facilities in the nation.

What the three have accomplished that UD has not is the ability to breeze through the inevitable coaching changes without skipping a beat. Attention Neil Sullivan.....there is a strong message there. After our four year NCAA run we are, yet again, in "start over" mode.

That is not acceptable if our goal is to match the performance of our top "peers". Continuity and consistency are critical...and we have neither, yet.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-03-2018, 01:59 PM
TerryK_67 TerryK_67 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: westerville, Ohio
Posts: 1,277
Thanks: 836
Thanked 909 Times in 439 Posts
TerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond reputeTerryK_67 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...
.... After our four year NCAA run we are, yet again, in "start over" mode.
.....
Realistically this was gonna be a rebuilding year even if Archie stayed! In fact one can build the case that is the reason he picked this time to step up.....
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to TerryK_67 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (01-07-2018), UD62 (01-05-2018)
  #13  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:00 PM
jack72's Avatar
jack72 jack72 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 11,798
Thanks: 9,645
Thanked 5,415 Times in 3,063 Posts
jack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
I beg to differ as "We" are a big part of the problem. There's support and then you have the Bengals. Do we want to continue down this path of support no matter what? In simple terms most people want a positive return on their investment(s). Now, you can hold out for a while and say it's a long term investment, however at some point if you do not see some type of return your investment/contribution will become smaller and smaller. I'm not talking about just this season, but the past 20 seasons or so. I understand most programs have some highs and lows from time to time, but I long for this program to take the step to the next level and sustain the success. The way this program has been going from year to year you can never tell if it is closer to the next level or the JOB years. I'm still invested, however this stuff is rough!
I went back and read my post, because I thought I miswrote it. But no, I never said you, I or any fan is the problem. KY, Duke, UNC, UofL, etc have great attendance and rabid fans. However, they do not wear it as their main accomplishment badge. What I am suggesting is that the UD basketball community puts too much focus there, and not enough on building a great program.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:06 PM
Radar Radar is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,129
Thanks: 1,267
Thanked 1,425 Times in 688 Posts
Radar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond reputeRadar has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
What I am suggesting is that the UD basketball community puts too much focus there, and not enough on building a great program.
And perhaps too much emphasis on hosting NCAA games vs a great program.

I recall a tshirt worn by a Xavier fan during their recent "play in" game appearance at UD:

"UD = NCAA tournament destination; Xavier = NCAA tournament team"
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Radar For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-03-2018), jack72 (01-03-2018)
  #15  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:15 PM
Ready Action Ready Action is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 428
Thanked 571 Times in 278 Posts
Ready Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant futureReady Action has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I went back and read my post, because I thought I miswrote it. But no, I never said you, I or any fan is the problem. KY, Duke, UNC, UofL, etc have great attendance and rabid fans. However, they do not wear it as their main accomplishment badge. What I am suggesting is that the UD basketball community puts too much focus there, and not enough on building a great program.
I understand what you are saying. In my rant I went somewhat all over the place. We have invested a lot of time, money and hope into supporting the program and we all want more sustained success.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Ready Action For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (01-03-2018)
  #16  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:21 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
OK, but why?

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
Realistically this was gonna be a rebuilding year even if Archie stayed! In fact one can build the case that is the reason he picked this time to step up.....
A coaches' job is to recruit and keep the pipeline full. AM did not do that. Why not?

The programs we have been discussing, X, BU, GU have very few "rebuilding" years. I'm very reluctant to say "no" such years. But, I think it's fair to say that they don't have several consecutive years during which they are reloading.

What does next year look like for us? Good teams invariably have at least one freshman who makes a significant impact. I don't get to see the Flyers...so I'll ask. Do we have such a freshman? Two?

AG is not a novice...he has experience; he knows the ropes. After the four years of success we've enjoyed recently I doubt if the Faithful are in a multi-year rebuilding frame of mind. As for the U....a $72 million Arena renovation is the largest single project in history. And the wisdom of such an investment had to be sold to a new president. This "rebuild" has got to be fast!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:27 PM
CoffeeCan's Avatar
CoffeeCan CoffeeCan is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 798
Thanks: 178
Thanked 673 Times in 285 Posts
CoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond reputeCoffeeCan has a reputation beyond repute
In a perfect world, you have two stud seniors every year and two stud recruits coming in. Then you keep the pipeline full and can still compete. Losing four starting seniors who meant so much more than just the stat sheet is almost impossible for anyone but the blue bloods like UK to overcome.

Add to that a new HC who is coming back into the college world. We should not be surprised at where we are.

It is all about the way the freshmen develop and the recruits coming in now.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to CoffeeCan For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (01-07-2018)
  #18  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:41 PM
shwag33 shwag33 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 65
Thanks: 14
Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts
shwag33 is a jewel in the roughshwag33 is a jewel in the roughshwag33 is a jewel in the rough
I'm not sure how anyone can say anything other than the conference is by the biggest hindrance.

Sure there's a few other things, but the A10 doesn't get any respect and for the most part its justified... too many high school gyms.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to shwag33 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer14 (01-07-2018)
  #19  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:50 PM
Canonball's Avatar
Canonball Canonball is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 1,675
Thanked 1,420 Times in 726 Posts
Canonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond repute
Chris Beard is having an excellent year at Texas Tech. So I guess in that case you could say that they just hired the wrong assistant after BK left. I think the hire within argument has a lot of merit in general. X has certainly built their program around that concept. Then again, you could argue that UD has had a pretty good track record at identifying talented coaches. We've come a LONG way since 1992-93.

Big East and league arguments. I'd counter that with, someone has to be DePaul, St John's, Providence in that league. UD struggled for awhile in the A10 throughout the Gregory years and in spite of reasonable success under him. He was at best 0.5 in league play and it was a show stopper for the big stage more often than not. Maybe UD retains Miller had the Flyers been in that league, maybe not, I don't know the man personally. I'd also add that those jobs can quickly start looking like career dead ends. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone in Dayton that'd say Purnell was a bad coach .... not that hard in Chicago.

Hope Grant puts it all together and this just becomes so much noise. Hard to say this early.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:51 PM
OSU Flyer's Avatar
OSU Flyer OSU Flyer is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 856
Thanked 1,320 Times in 755 Posts
OSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
VCU has gone 3-4 hires that weren't on staff assistants & kept rolling.

The difference between VCU, Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, Wichita & Creighton is how the hiring process would be handled after Archie left

I think a lack of transfers since Cunningham hurt this year & the next potentiality. If you look back on all of our recent transfers they've been players who've come in & made a an impact. It's a proven commodity & a veteran player to potentially be deployed. How much different would this season look with a Dillard, Seibert, Cooke or Cunningham coming eligible. That blunts the damage of losing seniors
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to OSU Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-07-2018), FLYER5 (01-06-2018)
  #21  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:01 PM
NJFlyr71's Avatar
NJFlyr71 NJFlyr71 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 1,521
Thanks: 660
Thanked 986 Times in 541 Posts
NJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond repute
Reality Based

We have not been able to transition successfully over the years from the D Donoher era. Blackburn dies in the midst of the season and we get a untried assistant to take the helm and what does he do? Makes the program better and in fact provides a run that really elevates the program far beyond the past.

Donoher is requested (?) to leave and we get JOB'ed enough said. His only true success is the first year.

Move on to Purnell and he has to totally re-build the program from scratch. He does a commendable job (my opinion) but basically not to the level during Donoher era. (AT least Purnell is a HC previously.)

Again a transition is faced and we go with an unproven assistant. In which case B Gregory takes a senior laden team to some not recently seen highlites. In future years, he has a series of great wins over ranked teams yet in conference and post season we typically fall flat. Some injuries and personnel issues impact the teams. It begins to unravel as each successive year we find ways NOT to move the program over hurtles.

Once again transition is lived through with an unproven assistant and need to rebuild a roster. It takes Archie a couple years to achieve great success as we once saw under Donoher and we believe that maybe just maybe this is the one and this is the time ...... Even with defections, injuries, discipline issues and tragedy we seem to persevere. Yet the program does not quite get to a level of sustainability as AM leaves and the program is faced with questions about the recruits and the group that is left behind.

So what is it that makes this cycle?
Poor coaching selections?
Recruitment cycles?
Misfortune? (Doesn't everyone at some time have these?)

Tagging the program with great support is fine but having a nice personality at the dance doesn't make you the person being sought out (necessarily). Last I looked we get accolades for this on air (radio/TV) but people remember the Duke's, NC's, Florida's, Villa's since they get the most tournament time and team honors.

After a few years of 'Nice Try' it gets very old.

So nothing about the arena, fan support, past history will get us to the level of sustainability in and OF ITSELF. If that was the key, well past experience indicates that approach isn't working, is it?

Nothing magical is needed.

But my opinion is the transition, how it is handled, who is next up, and the influx of very good recruits every recruitment cyclic is the major keys to driving this program to sustainability.

Go Flyers!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:11 PM
NJFlyr71's Avatar
NJFlyr71 NJFlyr71 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 1,521
Thanks: 660
Thanked 986 Times in 541 Posts
NJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
I'm not sure how anyone can say anything other than the conference is by the biggest hindrance.

Sure there's a few other things, but the A10 doesn't get any respect and for the most part its justified... too many high school gyms.
In system management and systems built from hardware/software, issues are not typically hindered by only ONE Factor. A conference can be an issue but thinking it is the biggest problem most likely not the deciding factor. There are examples of schools doing quite well year to year in 'lesser conferences' and schools in 'greater conferences' doing quite poorly.

Excellence is built on a great foundation. Up and down cycles are an indication of instability in the system. Ask a pilot, a marketing/sales guy, or Rollo!
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to NJFlyr71 For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (01-03-2018), rollo (01-03-2018), UACFlyer (01-03-2018)
  #23  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:45 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Consider Butler

BU did very, very well in a weak conference. Right?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:45 PM
shocka43's Avatar
shocka43 shocka43 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 7,136
Thanks: 3,990
Thanked 6,791 Times in 2,903 Posts
shocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond reputeshocka43 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
No doubt the three schools mentioned have been way more successful than UD over the past decades, plus.
Better term to be used by all would be "peer institutions". With being a peer institution comes athletics. With athletics comes financial support from donors and fans. With that comes the expectation that the end results over a given time are equal to or greater than those peer institutions.

Yes...UD isn't on the same level as a basketball program as any of those three. But as a peer institution with just as much if not more support/facilities, UD fans should have the expectation to be as good as or better than those 3 on the court.
__________________
Be right back. Need to go take a Swimpy.
Reply With Quote
4 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to shocka43 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Bonziflyer (01-03-2018), flyerfanatic86 (01-04-2018), rollo (01-03-2018), UACFlyer (01-03-2018)
  #25  
Old 01-03-2018, 06:10 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
This occurs to me...

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Better term to be used by all would be "peer institutions". With being a peer institution comes athletics. With athletics comes financial support from donors and fans. With that comes the expectation that the end results over a given time are equal to or greater than those peer institutions.

Yes...UD isn't on the same level as a basketball program as any of those three. But as a peer institution with just as much if not more support/facilities, UD fans should have the expectation to be as good as or better than those 3 on the court.
shocka, what pops into my mind after reading your post is this. Yes, UD is good....but given all the advantages, why not better, much better?

A few years ago we cracked the Elite Eight...to the astonishment of everyone. It was great...thrilling. And we made it back in each of the next three years...but we accomplished less each successive year.

Coaches matter a great deal. But the game is about talented players. Why can't we recruit talent at the level of the three other schools being discussed? Are they more willing to bend the academic rules than Dayton? How about the character of the players they are willing to take? I know Ted Kissell has an opinion about that. I've discussed it with him.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-07-2018)
  #26  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:40 PM
SeasonTicketFan's Avatar
SeasonTicketFan SeasonTicketFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 2,669
Thanks: 2,617
Thanked 2,971 Times in 1,193 Posts
SeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
shocka, what pops into my mind after reading your post is this. Yes, UD is good....but given all the advantages, why not better, much better?

A few years ago we cracked the Elite Eight...to the astonishment of everyone. It was great...thrilling. And we made it back in each of the next three years...but we accomplished less each successive year.

Coaches matter a great deal. But the game is about talented players. Why can't we recruit talent at the level of the three other schools being discussed? Are they more willing to bend the academic rules than Dayton? How about the character of the players they are willing to take? I know Ted Kissell has an opinion about that. I've discussed it with him.

Id love to hear the explanation by Kissel.

The standard excuses are:
1. Too much top competition nearby; UC, Ohio State, Louisville, Indiana, Etc. (That did not bother x or But,et)
2. Lack of TV exposure.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to SeasonTicketFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-07-2018)
  #27  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:58 PM
Avid Flyer's Avatar
Avid Flyer Avid Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 8,456
Thanks: 3,400
Thanked 3,582 Times in 1,828 Posts
Avid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
For me the answer is simple. Coaches or more to point coaching tree.

When did X take off and keep soaring. About 30 years ago they hired a good coach who hired good assistant coaches and the pipeline at X hasn't been interrupted since.

We got 3 good coaches after JOB but none of them NOT ONE OF THEM had a head assistant in place to take over when the HC left. With each exit and rehire the program literally starts over, falls off as the recruits opt for other programs, and the new coach has to restart the recruiting pipeline.

Gonzaga has had the same coach for decades, X and Butler hired top assistants who kept the program rolling without a beat.

So basically it all falls on the coaches who failed to have a qualified AHC in place to keep the program going forward.

With that in mind we really need to back off on AG for awhile and get behind him and support him in every detail as he is here because he wants to be here and is not looking for greener pastures. With AG we have the opportunity to keep the program in the same hands for literally a decade or two and with a good AHC in place to take over.

Look no further than Indiana, they went outside their coaching tree to bring in whom they thought was the savior,( who may well be that in the end) but for now has taken a step back. tOSU has also taken a step back going outside the coaching tree. Most programs who play by the rules have had coaches or assistants in place for long periods of time.

When a coach leaves and a new outside coach comes in it upsets the apple cart in every way possible. It is guesstimated it takes a new coach 3 years to get his players and develop his team. Unfortunately our last coaches left shortly after they got their team and recruits.

Like AG or not he is possibly the one person who can put stability back into the coaching ranks at UD and stabilize recruiting as well.

AM took us to 4 straight NCAA then left, now we see the results of that exit. No matter whom we hired the results would be the same, a startover.
Reply With Quote
6 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Avid Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
CoffeeCan (01-03-2018), Flyer 86 (01-07-2018), rollo (01-03-2018), shocka43 (01-04-2018), springborofan (01-03-2018), Whacker (01-05-2018)
  #28  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:37 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,066
Thanks: 3,137
Thanked 3,654 Times in 2,214 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
The AD

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
For me the answer is simple. Coaches or more to point coaching tree.

When did X take off and keep soaring. About 30 years ago they hired a good coach who hired good assistant coaches and the pipeline at X hasn't been interrupted since.

We got 3 good coaches after JOB but none of them NOT ONE OF THEM had a head assistant in place to take over when the HC left. With each exit and rehire the program literally starts over, falls off as the recruits opt for other programs, and the new coach has to restart the recruiting pipeline.

Gonzaga has had the same coach for decades, X and Butler hired top assistants who kept the program rolling without a beat.

So basically it all falls on the coaches who failed to have a qualified AHC in place to keep the program going forward.

With that in mind we really need to back off on AG for awhile and get behind him and support him in every detail as he is here because he wants to be here and is not looking for greener pastures. With AG we have the opportunity to keep the program in the same hands for literally a decade or two and with a good AHC in place to take over.

Look no further than Indiana, they went outside their coaching tree to bring in whom they thought was the savior,( who may well be that in the end) but for now has taken a step back. tOSU has also taken a step back going outside the coaching tree. Most programs who play by the rules have had coaches or assistants in place for long periods of time.

When a coach leaves and a new outside coach comes in it upsets the apple cart in every way possible. It is guesstimated it takes a new coach 3 years to get his players and develop his team. Unfortunately our last coaches left shortly after they got their team and recruits.

Like AG or not he is possibly the one person who can put stability back into the coaching ranks at UD and stabilize recruiting as well.

AM took us to 4 straight NCAA then left, now we see the results of that exit. No matter whom we hired the results would be the same, a startover.
Doesn't the AD have some responsibility for this? Can't Neil make it clear to AG that he (Neil) expects to see AG's successor sitting next to him.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:42 PM
OSU Flyer's Avatar
OSU Flyer OSU Flyer is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 856
Thanked 1,320 Times in 755 Posts
OSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
How did VCU go from Jeff Capel to Anthony Grant to Shaka Smart to Will Wade without missing a beat? Each was an outside the program & the last 3 made the tourney in their first year

Tulsa had a similar run in the 90s till 04 hiring outside the program with Tubby Smith, Steve Robinson, Bill Self

Promoting from within isn't the only way to get it done. Xavier got Matta from Butler & arguably Prosser
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to OSU Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Canonball (01-04-2018), SeasonTicketFan (01-03-2018)
  #30  
Old 01-04-2018, 09:26 AM
NJFlyr71's Avatar
NJFlyr71 NJFlyr71 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ Beach Livin'
Posts: 1,521
Thanks: 660
Thanked 986 Times in 541 Posts
NJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond reputeNJFlyr71 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
How did VCU go from Jeff Capel to Anthony Grant to Shaka Smart to Will Wade without missing a beat? Each was an outside the program & the last 3 made the tourney in their first year

Tulsa had a similar run in the 90s till 04 hiring outside the program with Tubby Smith, Steve Robinson, Bill Self

Promoting from within isn't the only way to get it done. Xavier got Matta from Butler & arguably Prosser
Posted via Mobile Device
Not sure even with the impressive Figgee123 stats model there is someway to see which approach is more viable in basketball program continuity, but there are instances that show both methods have there points.

However, in my opinion, hiring a very good coach the first time is important. Out of 100 possible HC candidates there may be 1 or 2 that turn into great coaches, all the others are in a spectrum of very acceptable to very horrible.

Bill Self has been with his program for years as an example so we do not yet know what Kansas will be like after he leaves. His longevity at K certainly shows it was a great hire.

X was fortunate to get a very good coach in each of their recent transitions but only after they hired Pete Gillen (202-75) in 1985. But before that they had Bob Staak who went 88-86. And before that when McCafferty left in 1963 X went through a number of so-so coaches until Pete finally showed up. Since then they have been either very fortunate in their selections OR had a great transition within the coaching staff.

SO, Yes IF you are very fortunate to get a HC on the first hire and he stays (meaning he is a great coach), the program achieves. OR, IF you are very fortunate to get a great HC from within the ranks that is replacing a great coach your program will/should achieve.

Going each and every time to the well in hopes the water tastes fine and not poisoned you are playing with luck and fate.

Now I must leave to wash my hands and rinse my mouth out due to the 'happy talk' I made about the X program!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:08 AM
Canonball's Avatar
Canonball Canonball is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 1,675
Thanked 1,420 Times in 726 Posts
Canonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond repute
You got to have an AD that understands the strengths and weaknesses of the program and hires a coach/coaches that fit that picture and can capitalize on the strengths and minimize the weaknesses. Regardless if the coach comes from within or from the outside. JOB was a poor choice because he was a square peg in a round hole, couldn't recruit, and arguably should have just remained an assistant in the pro ranks. Purnell, BG and Miller, each in their own way understood exactly what UD is and eventually figured out how to put it together. The program reflected their personalities as well as UD's. Give CAG some breathing room and let the man work. If it isn't working in a couple of years then go out and find someone else. That doesn't mean to be complacent and just accept things, rather be patient and let him try and get the kinks worked out, and maybe just maybe, UD will finally get the 'stability' that we all desire.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:12 AM
shwag33 shwag33 is offline
2nd Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 65
Thanks: 14
Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts
shwag33 is a jewel in the roughshwag33 is a jewel in the roughshwag33 is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
In system management and systems built from hardware/software, issues are not typically hindered by only ONE Factor. A conference can be an issue but thinking it is the biggest problem most likely not the deciding factor. There are examples of schools doing quite well year to year in 'lesser conferences' and schools in 'greater conferences' doing quite poorly.

Excellence is built on a great foundation. Up and down cycles are an indication of instability in the system. Ask a pilot, a marketing/sales guy, or Rollo!


Sure there's examples, doesn't mean it's still not the largest hindrance. Gonzaga built their program initially on the back australia. I would assume the conference stigma is not as largely noticed or cared about among internationals.

Butler did well for a while, but they were looking to jump out asap. I'd argue that if they were still in the horizon league they would be MUCH worse off than where they are right now.


You are recruiting against a stigma. Some players like Cohill might not mind, but I'd guess that majority it does. Even Archie miller our own beloved coach at one time believes in that stigma. Butler wouldn't be getting the players they are right now if they were still in the horizon league. They may get 1 or 2, but not the overall depth and quality.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:13 AM
Lifelong Flyer Fan Lifelong Flyer Fan is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,108
Thanks: 4,278
Thanked 3,130 Times in 1,124 Posts
Lifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond reputeLifelong Flyer Fan has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
VCU has gone 3-4 hires that weren't on staff assistants & kept rolling.

size=1]Posted via Mobile Device[/size]
Will Wade was a former VCU assistant and so was the current coach, Mike Rhoades
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Lifelong Flyer Fan For This Totally Excellent Post:
CE80 (01-04-2018)
  #34  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:16 AM
CE80's Avatar
CE80 CE80 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,964
Thanks: 4,108
Thanked 4,753 Times in 2,338 Posts
CE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond reputeCE80 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Will Wade was a former VCU assistant and so was the current coach, Mike Rhoades
Assistants that left to become head coaches at other programs before coming back to head coach at VCU.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (01-07-2018)
  #35  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:09 AM
OSU Flyer's Avatar
OSU Flyer OSU Flyer is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 856
Thanked 1,320 Times in 755 Posts
OSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
Wade & Rhoades were gone for a couple years & both tweaked the system upon return & lost recruits after getting hired.

I think the dream would be promoting from within but an AD can't tell a coach to hire _____ onto the staff or make sure there's a potential replacement on staff. Some coaches have a knack for developing future head coaches and others don't.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:56 AM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Fernando Valley, CA
Posts: 2,974
Thanks: 1,090
Thanked 1,896 Times in 882 Posts
Buster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond reputeBuster Goode has a reputation beyond repute
Bottom line, to reach the next level to be thought of a premier program, we need better, more respectable conference affiliation. IMO, I don't think it's too complicated. The A10 is a nice little conference, slightly above average, however, top-level and elite players simply do not perceive the A10 as a landing spot.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to Buster Goode For This Totally Excellent Post:
squirt (01-04-2018)
  #37  
Old 01-04-2018, 12:17 PM
Avid Flyer's Avatar
Avid Flyer Avid Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 8,456
Thanks: 3,400
Thanked 3,582 Times in 1,828 Posts
Avid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeAvid Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
How did VCU go from Jeff Capel to Anthony Grant to Shaka Smart to Will Wade without missing a beat? Each was an outside the program & the last 3 made the tourney in their first year

Tulsa had a similar run in the 90s till 04 hiring outside the program with Tubby Smith, Steve Robinson, Bill Self

Promoting from within isn't the only way to get it done. Xavier got Matta from Butler & arguably Prosser
Posted via Mobile Device
The answer is quite obvious, in each socenario you mention the cupboard was far from bare. Shaka went to final four with AG recruits. So yes their is more than one way to succeed.

An example of my scenario is the Dayton womens basketball program. Jabir built a solid program and went to the elite eight in year 12. The following year he was hit with massive injuries losing 4 of his starters. The next year with the illness of Madiline Blais and another uncertain year ahead he departed.

Shauna Greene was not my first choice or even in the mix as I had forgot about her since she left for Northwestern. Like others was looking for a great hire from another successful HC or at least a top assistant from UConn.

Enter Coach Greene, absolutely the best candidate I never considered but was perfect for the job. She knew the community, university, admins, Junior and Senior players whom she had coached. Knew of the sophmores as she helped recruit them and stepped in on short notice and went to the NCAA in her first year also winning the regular and tournament championship.

GW on the other hand hired a top assistant from UConn.....how is that working out, not so much. So Dayton is successful in hiring a former top UD assistant only one year removed from assisting Jabir. The program is in good hands most likely better than had we hired from a top program who did not know much about UD.

So to be successful long term, continuity and stability in the coaching ranks, and a full cupboard to work with by an outside hire.

Not sure how AG got mentioned in one of the post as he hasn't even had time to stamp his brand so to speak on the flyers mens team and in addition he not only has a top assistant but one who was an outright HC himself.
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Avid Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Canonball (01-04-2018), Lifelong Flyer Fan (01-04-2018), rollo (01-04-2018)
  #38  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:59 PM
Canonball's Avatar
Canonball Canonball is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 1,675
Thanked 1,420 Times in 726 Posts
Canonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
The answer is quite obvious, in each socenario you mention the cupboard was far from bare. Shaka went to final four with AG recruits. So yes their is more than one way to succeed.

An example of my scenario is the Dayton womens basketball program. Jabir built a solid program and went to the elite eight in year 12. The following year he was hit with massive injuries losing 4 of his starters. The next year with the illness of Madiline Blais and another uncertain year ahead he departed.

Shauna Greene was not my first choice or even in the mix as I had forgot about her since she left for Northwestern. Like others was looking for a great hire from another successful HC or at least a top assistant from UConn.

Enter Coach Greene, absolutely the best candidate I never considered but was perfect for the job. She knew the community, university, admins, Junior and Senior players whom she had coached. Knew of the sophmores as she helped recruit them and stepped in on short notice and went to the NCAA in her first year also winning the regular and tournament championship.

GW on the other hand hired a top assistant from UConn.....how is that working out, not so much. So Dayton is successful in hiring a former top UD assistant only one year removed from assisting Jabir. The program is in good hands most likely better than had we hired from a top program who did not know much about UD.

So to be successful long term, continuity and stability in the coaching ranks, and a full cupboard to work with by an outside hire.

Not sure how AG got mentioned in one of the post as he hasn't even had time to stamp his brand so to speak on the flyers mens team and in addition he not only has a top assistant but one who was an outright HC himself.
Yeah, I buy less into this idea that you need to hire within or whatever, than I do that you need to evaluate the person against the program. Know what talent looks like, and understand how that person would fit. Lot's of great coaches in smaller schools hit the big schools and stumble. Not always greener on the other side.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:32 PM
ud2's Avatar
ud2 ud2 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,180
Thanks: 3,946
Thanked 3,150 Times in 2,078 Posts
ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Canonball View Post
Yeah, I buy less into this idea that you need to hire within or whatever, than I do that you need to evaluate the person against the program. Know what talent looks like, and understand how that person would fit. Lot's of great coaches in smaller schools hit the big schools and stumble. Not always greener on the other side.
Easier said than done.

JOB did not work out.

Purnell worked out.

BG did not work out.

Archie worked out.

I do not think AG is going to work out.

So, we might be getting only 40% of the past 5 hires right, when we hire an outside candidate.

If you hire from within, there are advantages: you know exactly what you are getting, and the new coach will most likely run basically the same system as the previous coach, and the new coach knows the school very well and knows what is expected.

Donoher was the last internal hire, and he was obviously great.

Last edited by ud2; 01-04-2018 at 10:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:36 AM
Title_BU Title_BU is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 138
Thanks: 0
Thanked 45 Times in 23 Posts
Title_BU is a jewel in the roughTitle_BU is a jewel in the roughTitle_BU is a jewel in the roughTitle_BU is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
BU did very, very well in a weak conference. Right?
Well, the Horizon League finished 11th, 11th, 11th, 12th, and 10th, Butler's last five years in the league. Or, materially, what the A10 is right now - 10th.

https://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=A10&y=2018
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:32 AM
IndianaFlyer IndianaFlyer is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 774
Thanks: 761
Thanked 556 Times in 221 Posts
IndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeIndianaFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Bottom line, to reach the next level to be thought of a premier program, we need better, more respectable conference affiliation. IMO, I don't think it's too complicated. The A10 is a nice little conference, slightly above average, however, top-level and elite players simply do not perceive the A10 as a landing spot.
I don't think the players at Gonzaga, or Butler players from the Horizon league days, or (yes, I hate to say it) the Xavier players from the A-10 days would agree with you. All did well in what you are describing as conferences which can't get players needed to compete at the highest level.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:01 AM
Canonball's Avatar
Canonball Canonball is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Posts: 3,364
Thanks: 1,675
Thanked 1,420 Times in 726 Posts
Canonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond reputeCanonball has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Easier said than done.

JOB did not work out.

Purnell worked out.

BG did not work out.

Archie worked out.

I do not think AG is going to work out.

So, we might be getting only 40% of the past 5 hires right, when we hire an outside candidate.

If you hire from within, there are advantages: you know exactly what you are getting, and the new coach will most likely run basically the same system as the previous coach, and the new coach knows the school very well and knows what is expected.

Donoher was the last internal hire, and he was obviously great.
BG didn't work out? First NCAA win in what, 18 years? 17294 (.647), 7058 (.547).
He didn't get us to the NCAA promise land routinely, but its not like he was completely flailing around and inept. Plus the league at that time had Temple, X, and Joe's all playing at the peak of their programs. Landscape was different. I personally didn't like the style on the offensive side, but he did have quite a lot of success.
Reply With Quote
5 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Canonball For This Totally Excellent Post:
Bucketnight (01-06-2018), CE80 (01-05-2018), Flyer 86 (01-07-2018), NJFlyr71 (01-06-2018), UDTradition (01-05-2018)
  #43  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:14 PM
TA111 TA111 is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,312
Thanks: 1,216
Thanked 1,972 Times in 1,022 Posts
TA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond reputeTA111 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Canonball View Post
BG didn't work out? First NCAA win in what, 18 years? 17294 (.647), 7058 (.547).
He didn't get us to the NCAA promise land routinely, but its not like he was completely flailing around and inept. Plus the league at that time had Temple, X, and Joe's all playing at the peak of their programs. Landscape was different. I personally didn't like the style on the offensive side, but he did have quite a lot of success.
Not to mention an NIT Championship, which is no small potatoes.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to TA111 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Canonball (01-09-2018)
  #44  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:39 PM
ruechalgrin's Avatar
ruechalgrin ruechalgrin is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 3,000
Thanks: 4,084
Thanked 2,714 Times in 1,088 Posts
ruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond reputeruechalgrin has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
VCU has gone 3-4 hires that weren't on staff assistants & kept rolling.

The difference between VCU, Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, Wichita & Creighton is how the hiring process would be handled after Archie left

I think a lack of transfers since Cunningham hurt this year & the next potentiality. If you look back on all of our recent transfers they've been players who've come in & made a an impact. It's a proven commodity & a veteran player to potentially be deployed. How much different would this season look with a Dillard, Seibert, Cooke or Cunningham coming eligible. That blunts the damage of losing seniors
Posted via Mobile Device
Creighton has NEVER won 2 straight NCAA games, NEVER. We are emulating Creighton?!?!? Besides being in the Big Esst, Creighton would die for Dayton's success. 2 out of the last 4 years Dayfon won 2 NCAA games in a row. I repeat Creighton has never done that.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:56 AM
OSU Flyer's Avatar
OSU Flyer OSU Flyer is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,232
Thanks: 856
Thanked 1,320 Times in 755 Posts
OSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeOSU Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
Probably some value in playing your way into the Big East, wracking up tourney bids & putting guys in the NBA. Even as bad they've done in the tourney they still found a way to beat AG at Bama in his lone trip there.

Tourney success is never guaranteed as AG could attest to
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:19 PM
RamodWaleskowski RamodWaleskowski is offline
1st Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 224
Thanks: 54
Thanked 168 Times in 83 Posts
RamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud ofRamodWaleskowski has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
As long as UD keeps doing the same things over and over, the results will be the same. What are those things? Not for us necessarily to answer, but we can speculate. The AD, his staff and the basketball coaches need to indentify the things that made X, Duke, Gonzaga and Butler successful. Are they doing that? Certainly not anywhere close to the extent they need to.

I'll throw one out, we are spoiled with the entire high attendance thing. UD had not turned it into excellence on the court, but instead made it our cocoon of comfort. Those four schools brag that they win, and we brag that we have great support. Less support is not the answer. It is doing something more constructive with it that will help.

As they say, it is never too late, and the future starts today.
What's holding UD basketball back? Fans like you.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:56 PM
ud2's Avatar
ud2 ud2 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,180
Thanks: 3,946
Thanked 3,150 Times in 2,078 Posts
ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
The 16 home games 14 away/neutral games scheduling model is preventing us from ever getting better than a 7 seed.

I just think always playing a 16/14 every single friggin' year, no matter what, is a dated, behind-the-times, backwards, complacent way of doing business.

UD, please join the 21st century and play a 15/15 schedule at least every once in a while.

Butler and Xavier used to do this regularly and sometimes still do this even now.

Is it any wonder that they are in the BE, and we are not? They do all the little things that we never do.

Last edited by ud2; 01-06-2018 at 10:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to ud2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
jack72 (01-07-2018)
  #48  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:13 AM
ud69's Avatar
ud69 ud69 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,255
Thanks: 1,853
Thanked 4,259 Times in 1,883 Posts
ud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond reputeud69 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The 16 home games 14 away/neutral games scheduling model is preventing us from ever getting better than a 7 seed.

I just think always playing a 16/14 every single friggin' year, no matter what, is a dated, behind-the-times, backwards, complacent way of doing business.

UD, please join the 21st century and play a 15/15 schedule at least every once in a while.

Butler and Xavier used to do this regularly and sometimes still do this even now.

Is it any wonder that they are in the BE, and we are not? They do all the little things that we never do.
So a #4 non-con SOS is not good enough for you?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-07-2018, 09:52 AM
jack72's Avatar
jack72 jack72 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 11,798
Thanks: 9,645
Thanked 5,415 Times in 3,063 Posts
jack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond reputejack72 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The 16 home games 14 away/neutral games scheduling model is preventing us from ever getting better than a 7 seed.

I just think always playing a 16/14 every single friggin' year, no matter what, is a dated, behind-the-times, backwards, complacent way of doing business.

UD, please join the 21st century and play a 15/15 schedule at least every once in a while.

Butler and Xavier used to do this regularly and sometimes still do this even now.

Is it any wonder that they are in the BE, and we are not? They do all the little things that we never do.
Although I do not share your opinion, thanks for posting a different viewpoint than coaching. When I started the thread, I was hoping for some out of the box posts about what is holding back our program, instead of just coaching.

It is like the chicken and egg, at those schools what came first the coaching or the other program environments? I say the latter.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to jack72 For This Totally Excellent Post:
SeasonTicketFan (01-07-2018)
  #50  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:24 PM
ud2's Avatar
ud2 ud2 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,180
Thanks: 3,946
Thanked 3,150 Times in 2,078 Posts
ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
So a #4 non-con SOS is not good enough for you?
I will have to look up UD's OOC SOS through the years. Usually Butler and Xavier play a much tougher OOC SOS than we do.

And look at this data point: over the last 5 years, VCU is kicking our butt in terms of SOS. We should at least be able to keep up with VCU in terms of SOS.

VCU got their 4th recent NCAAT bid in 2010-2011, they joined the A10 in 2012-2013. They also danced in 2011-2012, so they only had 1 more recent bid than we got under Archie.

Ever since they have been in the A10, they have stepped up their SOS, why aren't we stepping up our SOS?

So, don't give me the "nobody will play us" garbage. VCU is getting it done in terms of SOS, why aren't we?

VCU SOS Rank:

2016-2017 15
2015-2016 59
2014-2015 15
2013-2014 27
2012-2013 41



Dayton SOS Rank:

2016-2017 93
2015-2016 49
2014-2015 93
2013-2014 61
2012-2013 95

Last edited by ud2; 01-07-2018 at 01:27 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:53 PM
SeasonTicketFan's Avatar
SeasonTicketFan SeasonTicketFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 2,669
Thanks: 2,617
Thanked 2,971 Times in 1,193 Posts
SeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond repute
What holds the back is out of the box recruiting.

Go to Flyin to the Hoop this weekend. You will see some incredibly talented players who would never consider going to UD.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-07-2018, 03:03 PM
UD62 UD62 is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,064
Thanks: 1,088
Thanked 1,313 Times in 627 Posts
UD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond reputeUD62 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The 16 home games 14 away/neutral games scheduling model is preventing us from ever getting better than a 7 seed.

I just think always playing a 16/14 every single friggin' year, no matter what, is a dated, behind-the-times, backwards, complacent way of doing business.

UD, please join the 21st century and play a 15/15 schedule at least every once in a while.

Butler and Xavier used to do this regularly and sometimes still do this even now.

Is it any wonder that they are in the BE, and we are not? They do all the little things that we never do.
Atta boy ud2 keep up the fight for 15/15. It will solve all our problems.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.