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View Poll Results: What the Golden h*ll happened against Tulsa Award goes to....
Cunningham 15 pts 4 rbs but only 27 min...we need him to play 35! 2 4.76%
Sir Trey 13/7 but 0-5 on 3s 9 21.43%
Toppin 13/2 but 4 fouls in 19 min...unacceptable!! 1 2.38%
Crutcher 14/4 3 st, 3a but 5-15 shooting 6 14.29%
JDavis 7/1 and 2-7 shooting 19 45.24%
Bench s*cks! 5 11.90%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-16-2018, 08:05 PM
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Golden Close Doesn't Count in Basketball Award - Tulsa

Before posting the Golden Poll I must confess that I didn't see or hear 1 second of the game...the eldest million-heir graduated from tOSU today and I've been busy! One down, two to go!

So I just glanced at the box score and have 2 quick reactions that may or may not be valid. (1) Every shot matters and we didn't shoot well, and; (2) we need some bench production NOW!

So I'll post the poll and royally look forward to hearing what everyone thinks/says about the game/stats/bench.

Go Flyers! My Team...forever!

King Rollo...OUT!
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:17 PM
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I forgot to add Mikesell and his 37 min of 1/4 shooting...UGH! He is royally eligible for a write-in vote.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:20 PM
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Did Not Vote

in the poll because I did not like any of the choices. My vote would go to AG for taking both
Cunningham and Toppin to the bench and inserting an under-prepaired Policelli. Tulsa went on their game winning run following that move. The game was lost as a team by poor shooting and incompetent offense by the Flyers. That rests squarely on the shoulders of General Grant.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
in the poll because I did not like any of the choices. My vote would go to AG for taking both
Cunningham and Toppin to the bench and inserting an under-prepaired Policelli. Tulsa went on their game winning run following that move. The game was lost as a team by poor shooting and incompetent offense by the Flyers. That rests squarely on the shoulders of General Grant.
Did you watch the game? Both Cunningham and Obi were in foul trouble. Frankie played fine in the couple minutes of action he had. This one goes on Jalen and Jordan for not being able to facilitate O when Obi and Josh got in foul trouble. Mikesell being invisible and Trey shooting five threes is a recipe for a loss.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
in the poll because I did not like any of the choices. My vote would go to AG for taking both
Cunningham and Toppin to the bench and inserting an under-prepaired Policelli. Tulsa went on their game winning run following that move. The game was lost as a team by poor shooting and incompetent offense by the Flyers. That rests squarely on the shoulders of General Grant.
Absolutely, lots of problems like Cruch’s inability to generate offense by doing anything but passing around the arc or penetrate, but when we had no big, and Frankie floundering like a fish and no one to score AG ran up the white flag.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:33 PM
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Davis is playing great D, but he has got to kick it into gear offensively. We have no real threat from the perimeter and it’s killing us. I might have gone with the bench except that Toppin isn’t starting. Had Mikesell knocked down that wide-open three to tie the game we might have seen a different outcome. When you put up 13 more shots than your opponent and basically play them even across the stat line, it boils down to blown layups and bricked threes. We shot ourselves out of a much-needed W.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by EliteEight View Post
Did you watch the game? Both Cunningham and Obi were in foul trouble. Frankie played fine in the couple minutes of action he had. This one goes on Jalen and Jordan for not being able to facilitate O when Obi and Josh got in foul trouble. Mikesell being invisible and Trey shooting five threes is a recipe for a loss.
We still had two fouls for each big left, why not keep them on the floor until they foul out. You saw the result. Taking both out left us looking like a CYO team .
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:55 PM
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We need someone other than Crutcher who can hit an outside shot on a semi regular basis!!
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:56 PM
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Thought JD had a bright future last year. Got to be honest, getting concerned. He’s just not providing a threat in the offense. That allows teams to focus on The JC’s. Perhaps JD will never be more than a spot up shooter. Either he has to develop in the offense they run, or they just have to create some plays for him. It just doesn’t seem to be working right now.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:57 PM
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There’s no reason why pollicelli had to come in. Take obi out and play the original starting lineup so we could still have an inside presence. Just dumb tactics as that came following our best minutes of the night. Instead we result to old pass around the perimeters tactics and jack up an out of rhythm 3 before the shot clock expires. AG is not convincing me that he can make good decisions in tight games.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
There’s no reason why pollicelli had to come in. Take obi out and play the original starting lineup so we could still have an inside presence. Just dumb tactics as that came following our best minutes of the night. Instead we result to old pass around the perimeters tactics and jack up an out of rhythm 3 before the shot clock expires. AG is not convincing me that he can make good decisions in tight games.
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3 minutes. He played 3 minutes. We need him to grow.

This is what happens when you start with 8 scholarship players. If you want to be critical of AG, that’s something you can point to.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:17 PM
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Love my Flyers and AG but..........

No leader or identity for this team.
No perimeter shooters
Only 8 players but AG had two timeouts he took to the locker room at the end of the game.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:19 PM
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win or lose, to me it is always crutcher. He is the key to this team
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:43 PM
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That Refs really screwed us on that 3 in the first half
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
3 minutes. He played 3 minutes. We need him to grow.

This is what happens when you start with 8 scholarship players. If you want to be critical of AG, that’s something you can point to.
Those 3 minutes are where the game got away and they were playing catch up the rest of the way
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Willy418 View Post
Love my Flyers and AG but..........

No leader or identity for this team.
No perimeter shooters
Only 8 players but AG had two timeouts he took to the locker room at the end of the game.
I believe he had 1 timeout left at the end of the game. The time to use that TO would have been when Mikesell hit the 3 to tie it up - except Mikesell missed.

Several areas that cost us -
Poor job attacking the zone early and fell behind by 14
Poor shooting - 41% - guys not named Crutcher were 1-12 from 3
Poor defense - Tulsa shot 54%

On the plus side-
Only 5 turnovers
even on the glass
only gave up 2 offensive boards
82% from the line

They shot it and we did not - that was the difference.

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Old 12-16-2018, 09:55 PM
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He should have put Josh back in with 3 fouls when Obi got his 3rd. If Josh gets his 4th, send Obi back in

Without one of those two on the court the offense is pretty limited if the jump shots aren't falling

That stretch is where things seemed to get away from them
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Davis is playing great D, but he has got to kick it into gear offensively. We have no real threat from the perimeter and it’s killing us. I might have gone with the bench except that Toppin isn’t starting. Had Mikesell knocked down that wide-open three to tie the game we might have seen a different outcome. When you put up 13 more shots than your opponent and basically play them even across the stat line, it boils down to blown layups and bricked threes. We shot ourselves out of a much-needed W.
Jordan I thought had a good looking shot last year and he hit a high % from 3 especially for a freshman

He's not in as bad a slump as Paul Williams senior year but something is off with him. I wonder if he's nursing some kind of injury or something else is going on.

Agree on the D and he's active/high effort on that end of the ball.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:11 PM
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After Toppin was removed because of two quick fouls against Auburn I stated he needs to learn how to stay out of foul trouble. Seems it is still a learning process. AG should have started both Toppin and Cunningham and had Mikesell come off the bench. This is about the the third or fourth game in a row that Mikesell hasn't played well. He isn't making his threes and his turnovers come at the most inopportune times. In the 4 games we have won at UD Arena this season we seemed to have played our best when Toppin and Cunningham were both in the lineup!

That being said, Obi didn't get any help at all when Igbanu backed him down in the post in the second half! We don't play help defense on the road as well as we do at home!
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:32 PM
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Rollo,

Flyers are my team forever too; however, forever has come and gone along time ago. If Groundhog Day could be a movie about a college basketball program, it would definitely be about the Dayton Flyers. Fortunately, Brooks Hall's wisdom filled reminder that the other teams give out scholarships too, keeps me hanging on to hoops and hopes, and out of postgame depression. Scholarships or not, those schools don't have a $72 million hallway on the edge of their arena. So no worries, I am confident UD can use this comparative advantage to finish in the top eight of the A10; but I wouldn't hold my breath on it, no matter what Bedell says. So much for Rhodies demise, and the A10 will be a nightly pain and challenge like always.


I cast a vote for Davis; but Mikesell is write-in worthy, as is most of the team, and coach grant and staff. Not good!
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:45 AM
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This was a team effort, no one did it alone.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:37 AM
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Not going to vote, because I didn’t see the game. Heard much of it with Larry & Keith. Based on what I heard, no 1 player in particular stood out, good or bad, and most had successes mixed with failures (ex. Trey with a decent stat line, but 0/5 from deep). And the same is true for Coach Grant and his staff. The team played miserably at the outset, and I’m sure the strategy wasn’t “Let’s pass the ball around the perimeter for 25 seconds and then chuck a desperation 3.” Then, a light bulb came on, and our team clawed back to tie it by halftime. Just an uneven performance by all. We need more consistency (of the positive kind).
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by EliteEight View Post
Did you watch the game? Both Cunningham and Obi were in foul trouble. Frankie played fine in the couple minutes of action he had. This one goes on Jalen and Jordan for not being able to facilitate O when Obi and Josh got in foul trouble. Mikesell being invisible and Trey shooting five threes is a recipe for a loss.
I watched every single solitary miserable second of the game.

What you say about Mikesell and Landers is true. However, AG coached as if he had Steve Lappas (color analyst, former Villanova coach) in his ear, chirping the party line about 2 fouls in the first half and you're out, 3 fouls early in the second half and you're out. There's a reason Lappas never landed another job after 'Nova...he's horrible.

Yep, they were in foul trouble, we're all aware of that. But there comes a point when you roll the dice and play them, knowing the risks or else you could find in a deeper hole. Tulsa immediately put Frankie and Mikesell on an island with their post players and totally abused both. AG finally realized it, put Obi at the scorers table, but it took 3 posessions by Tulsa before a dead ball/substitution. AG still had 3 TO's at that point and failed to call one.

I give my community write-in vote to AG and staff.
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
I watched every single solitary miserable second of the game.

What you say about Mikesell and Landers is true. However, AG coached as if he had Steve Lappas (color analyst, former Villanova coach) in his ear, chirping the party line about 2 fouls in the first half and you're out, 3 fouls early in the second half and you're out. There's a reason Lappas never landed another job after 'Nova...he's horrible.

Yep, they were in foul trouble, we're all aware of that. But there comes a point when you roll the dice and play them, knowing the risks or else you could find in a deeper hole. Tulsa immediately put Frankie and Mikesell on an island with their post players and totally abused both. AG finally realized it, put Obi at the scorers table, but it took 3 posessions by Tulsa before a dead ball/substitution. AG still had 3 TO's at that point and failed to call one.

I give my community write-in vote to AG and staff.
Fair point about the time outs. I also thought the 12 minute T/O break was delayed and it left Cunningham at the scorers table waiting to come in for 3 possessions. Obi didn't help us by immediately coming in and getting a fourth foul. To me, I'd like to see Cunningham display a little more effort defensively when he gets in FT. He got his third early then didn't contest another shot for the rest of the game
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:44 AM
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Wink True, but do you really blame him

Originally Posted by EliteEight View Post
Fair point about the time outs. I also thought the 12 minute T/O break was delayed and it left Cunningham at the scorers table waiting to come in for 3 possessions. Obi didn't help us by immediately coming in and getting a fourth foul. To me, I'd like to see Cunningham display a little more effort defensively when he gets in FT. He got his third early then didn't contest another shot for the rest of the game
True enough about Cunningham and the third foul and not guarding thereafter; but if you think about, I almost cannot blame him, considering that once he goes, so goes the chance of this team winning a game. I am pretty sure he recognizes that, and so does Grant. But you are correct!
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:27 AM
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So I was at the game and actually sat courtside so saw everything, good and bad, up close. I voted for Davis because he is just not an offensive threat right now and when your 2 guard can't score you have problems.

We also missed a few easy shots after great moves. You can't win when you do the hard part of the job but can't complete the easy part.

Frankie needs to get minutes to get over his apprehension, and believe me you could see his fear, nervousness, lack of confidence and not always knowing where to go up close. You could also see other players frustrations with him when he was on the court for those few minutes. Hopefully there are some games coming up where AG can get him extended minutes to try and calm him down and get him comfortable in the system.

Ultimately we had no answer for their zone. We need a knock down three-point shooter or else we will see a lot of zone...does Norm Grevey have any eligibility left? As good as Josh is, and as much as I like him, when he gets the ball against the zone it is feast or famine. He either bulls his way to the basket for a score or a foul or the offense completely bogs down as they run two and sometimes three players at him. I'm always amazed at how he can sometimes have three guys surrounding him yet we cannot find someone who is open. And when we do it is usually Trey, who I also like a lot, but is not a great three-point shooter.

I wasn't worried about being thin this year but after watching yesterday I now see it is a legit concern and will probably cost us more games this year if there is any foul trouble. And yesterday the refs we had weren't really whistle happy, so what is going to happen when we get into a game where the refs are calling everything.

I still think we have some real talent on the team and have the capability to win a lot in the A10 but if we don't figure out how to score against a zone and ultimately learn how to win close games we could be in for lots of disappointing outcomes.
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  #27  
Old 12-17-2018, 10:47 AM
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God I/We miss Kyle Davis. That kid knew how to double team in the post. Yesterday we let their bigs hold the ball and back their butts in for an eternity with no help from the D. It led to easy baskets and fouls on Josh and Obi and made foul shots.

Grant needs to get Frankie in the first half, not at a critical time. Those three minutes, my as well have been 20, as Frankie got brutalized on D, and was looking around lost on offense. Of course when you lay a brick in the first half, then you have screwed that theory.

Tulsa had us well scouted, stop the constant ball movement, inside penetration and passes and let anyone not named Crutcher shoot all the threes they want. You can bet the A10 coaches will study this film.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:15 AM
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I think the decision not to play frankie earlier in the season, is really showing up in a negative way right now. Grant made a mistake with that. He was assuming no injuries, no sickness, no off-court trouble, no players leaving the program due to attitude issues, and no foul trouble in certain games, etc. If you constantly coach for next year, it may never get here.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
I think the decision not to play frankie earlier in the season, is really showing up in a negative way right now. Grant made a mistake with that. He was assuming no injuries, no sickness, no off-court trouble, no players leaving the program due to attitude issues, and no foul trouble in certain games, etc. If you constantly coach for next year, it may never get here.
I agree with this. If it was a year when we had 10 to 13 scholarship players available and you want to redshirt someone that is a different story but not 9 or less.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
If you constantly coach for next year, it may never get here.
Bingo!
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
So I was at the game and actually sat courtside so saw everything, good and bad, up close.
What's UD's record when you attend a game now???
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:10 PM
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I know the roster is thin but at what point do you switch things up and bring Jordan off the bench to see if that gets him going?
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:03 PM
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Pathetic 3 point shooting. We need the sharpshooter from Sinclair NOW!!! We are going to be seeing nothing but zone defense the rest of this season.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:50 PM
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Plain and simple, Frankie wasn't ready at the start of the season, he's not ready now, and it's unlikely he will be ready this year. That is why he was redshirted. AG knew that after watching him day in and day out in practice. He was brought out of the redshirt because of a must have him situation, but that doesn't mean he will contribute this year. I doubt mop up minutes in the first 5 or 6 games would have changed that. I like Frankie and see potential, I hate that the redshirt development year didn't work out.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
What's UD's record when you attend a game now???
ugh not good!!!
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:30 PM
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During the 3 minutes Frankie was in, Dayton was -6. I am the biggest supporter of Anthony Grant and I thin most of the criticism is crazy. But needed Obi or Josh in the game at all times even with 3 fouls each in the 2H. This was a major decision. Should have gone to a zone as well with their bigs killing us.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
Plain and simple, Frankie wasn't ready at the start of the season, he's not ready now, and it's unlikely he will be ready this year. That is why he was redshirted. AG knew that after watching him day in and day out in practice. He was brought out of the redshirt because of a must have him situation, but that doesn't mean he will contribute this year. I doubt mop up minutes in the first 5 or 6 games would have changed that. I like Frankie and see potential, I hate that the redshirt development year didn't work out.
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Exactly. Like it or not, we need minutes from him every game from here on out. Just provide solid minutes, we don’t need a ton of offense. Those “game deciding” three minutes are not why that game was lost.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:58 PM
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Frankie should have redshirted. He adds nothing, nothing when he’s on the floor and is not ready for this level of ball yet. Crosby or Svbooda who left because they weren’t capable would be a big upgrade over Frankie. Maybe in a year or two he’ll develop but as of today he’s not ready for prime time.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Frankie should have redshirted. He adds nothing, nothing when he’s on the floor and is not ready for this level of ball yet. Crosby or Svbooda who left because they weren’t capable would be a big upgrade over Frankie. Maybe in a year or two he’ll develop but as of today he’s not ready for prime time.
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In his first twelve minutes on the court ever, sure.

Those other guys had a lot more minutes to show their (lack of) stuff. I'll take Frankie.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Frankie should have redshirted. He adds nothing, nothing when he’s on the floor and is not ready for this level of ball yet. Crosby or Svbooda who left because they weren’t capable would be a big upgrade over Frankie. Maybe in a year or two he’ll develop but as of today he’s not ready for prime time.
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Extreme statements this early in the year are silly. Frankie is better than Svoboda. How quickly we forget his zero defense and taking threes he never made. Frankie is an 18 year old, who shows potential. Svoboda was like 22, and did not have basic athletic skills.

Who is saying that Frankie should not have red shirted? No one here, not Grant. Are you saying play the rest of the year with seven players, and less when injury and illness hit, and they will?
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  #41  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:53 AM
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Mikesell gets my write in vote.

I have seen him pass up a wide open shot, often a 3, one time too many this season. Shoot the **** ball Ryan!
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:30 PM
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Yes. He offers little more than a walk on. The three minutes he gets are irrelevant, at least as a positive.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
So I was at the game and actually sat courtside so saw everything, good and bad, up close.
I sat courtside as well, across from the Tulsa bench. Just an incredible experience. Did you notice how into the game the Tulsa bench was? They brought energy the ENTIRE game.

Bummer to lose, but had a great time.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns View Post
I sat courtside as well, across from the Tulsa bench. Just an incredible experience. Did you notice how into the game the Tulsa bench was? They brought energy the ENTIRE game.

Bummer to lose, but had a great time.
I was across from the Dayton bench. Yes the Tulsa bench was into it as were there 15 fans they had right behind the bench.
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