By the numbers: Why realignment really hasn't hurt the A-10's status...

[FlyingArrow]

Circa 2001, there were the 6 big BCS conferences with a total of 68 teams. MWC, CUSA, and the A10 were the best of the 'mid-majors', with a total of 34 teams. 102 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences.

This year, the Big East has split into the Big East and AAC. Really, they're both a little bit lower status than the other 5 BCS conferences, but we'll count all 7 as the 'high majors'. All together, those 7 conferences have 83 teams. The MWC and the A10 have a total of 24 teams. 107 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences. Note that CUSA is no longer included here... they aren't as relevant.

And that's the real point... the other mid-major conferences have lost a lot more than the A10 has. The A10 lost Xavier and Temple, but that's not so much compared to the others. C-USA has drastically lost status... pretty much every relevant team is now in the AAC or Big East. We 'lost' Butler but never really had them in the first place. The Horizon League really lost Butler. MAC has been down for a long time and didn't even need to lose anything. MWC lost Utah. And then BYU left the MWC and went to the WCC, bringing the MWC and WCC closer to parity but putting both of them below the A10. MVC lost Creighton.

The A10 has 9 top 100 RPI teams... tied for first with the ACC. It's an up year for the A10, but even taking that into consideration, they're closer to the high-majors than the mid-majors.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

It was only one year. This thing is far from over. It is not long before the big football-centric conferences make more moves to drive out the littler guys. I think the latest thing was the Las Vegas oddsmakers saying that the selection committee's seedings were a joke. I know it is supposed to be based upon your resume but I don't think that will sits well with the big boys. They will want more control.

[FlyingArrow]

My point is that although the big conferences have absorbed 15 teams from the lower conferences in the past decade or so, it has hurt other conferences more than it's hurt the A10. To such a point that the A10 is still part of the conversation when you talk about the top 100 teams in D1 basketball. Basically, what has changed is that half of CUSA moved up and half of CUSA is no longer relevant. Of course, there were plenty of other small moves, too, but the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today.

I'm sure we would move to the Big East if they called, but I'm not too worried about it. Even in a down year, there's enough strength in the A10 most years to remain a multi-bid league.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow My point is that although the big conferences have absorbed 15 teams from the lower conferences in the past decade or so, it has hurt other conferences more than it's hurt the A10. To such a point that the A10 is still part of the conversation when you talk about the top 100 teams in D1 basketball. Basically, what has changed is that half of CUSA moved up and half of CUSA is no longer relevant. Of course, there were plenty of other small moves, too, but the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today.

But the fall of CUSA is due to football, and most of the other changes are due to football. That is why we have not been affected as much.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow . the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today....

In 2001 the "old" Big East was one of the six power conferences...solid in football and the best basketball conference in history. That conference no longer exists.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Circa 2001, there were the 6 big BCS conferences with a total of 68 teams. MWC, CUSA, and the A10 were the best of the 'mid-majors', with a total of 34 teams. 102 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences. This year, the Big East has split into the Big East and AAC. Really, they're both a little bit lower status than the other 5 BCS conferences, but we'll count all 7 as the 'high majors'. All together, those 7 conferences have 83 teams. The MWC and the A10 have a total of 24 teams. 107 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences. Note that CUSA is no longer included here... they aren't as relevant. And that's the real point... the other mid-major conferences have lost a lot more than the A10 has. The A10 lost Xavier and Temple, but that's not so much compared to the others. C-USA has drastically lost status... pretty much every relevant team is now in the AAC or Big East. We 'lost' Butler but never really had them in the first place. The Horizon League really lost Butler. MAC has been down for a long time and didn't even need to lose anything. MWC lost Utah. And then BYU left the MWC and went to the WCC, bringing the MWC and WCC closer to parity but putting both of them below the A10. MVC lost Creighton. The A10 has 9 top 100 RPI teams... tied for first with the ACC. It's an up year for the A10, but even taking that into consideration, they're closer to the high-majors than the mid-majors.

Reallignment hasn't hurt us for one reason. Timing. The A10 could count on 5 or 6 teams vying for an ncaa position every season. The addition last year of Butler and VCU accounted for our one added spot in the Tourny. But when the mighty fall, usually that means the weak are about to rise. And it just so happened that X, Butler and Temple all fell at the same time, couldn't have worked out better for the A10. We've seen over the years where we think UD is ready to take over the conference due to X or other teams losing a slew of seniors. And then comes RI, SJ, Charlotte etc to take their place and UD remains in the middle. Well this year it happened again and the teams that fell happened to have left the conference. And the beautiful part is Dayton raised it's game.

Perfect storm this year.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[DallasFlyer]

Except that Charlotte sucked for their entire A10 existence. They rose, joined the A10 and fell the second they got there, then left the A10 and probably will rise again without the A10 getting anything out of them. But oh well.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Except that Charlotte sucked for their entire A10 existence. They rose, joined the A10 and fell the second they got there, then left the A10 and probably will rise again without the A10 getting anything out of them. But oh well.

You're right, take Charlotte out and put UMASS in my post.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

The break up of the Big East was a major boost for the A10. The Northeast truly identified with the Big East. The Big East put the Northeast basketball scene on the map and in a short time on the top of the mountain. They were defined not just be geography though. They had great coaches. They had a rugged style of play. There were intense rivalries. The current Big East lacks all of this. It has no identity. Butler, Creighton, DePaul and Marquette are complete departures from the Big East roots. Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Villanova and Seton Hall are all that remain. St. Johns is a shadow of the days of Lou and Mullins. Georgetown was put on the map with Ewing, and it's been a slow regression since. Providence is not a power. Providence had a nice tourney run, but they're not a serious player. Villanova was he class of the conference this year, but they've been hit or miss historically. As to X, I truly believe they're the only school that matches the old intensity of the glory days of the Big East. They may not be as highly ranked and don't have the same talent, but they do play a rugged, in your face style of basketball. While we criticize them as thugs, the Big East didn't shy away from its thug image. The bottom line is that the Big East is everything we all expected....something less. This leaves a void in the Northeast. The A10 is in a unique position to be the conference of the Northeast. It will require a slightly less than Herculean feat by Bernadette. But, I have an unexplained level of confidence in her. The A10 needs to take hold of the top basketball centric conference. It's likely a pipe dream, but I wonder if there are any possible defectors. We know that Marquette, Georgetown and Xavier are out. Villanova is the school I would want....want them back. There is no other school I would rather join the conference. Georgetown is far too smug (they may want to look at Flyer history and realize that 2 decades of dominance does not guarantee success for the rest of time). St Johns is irrelevant. Providence was big when they were one of the first to build a huge arena, but not much since. I have zero interest in Seton Hall. Who knows what lies in the future of the Big East. They're TV contract won't be renewed. There's simply no interest. But, the A10 has some real excitement. There's no in-fighting about adding schools. Davidson and George Mason may not compete regularly in the top half of the conference, but the top half is tough. I'd take Davidson and George Mason over DePaul. Fordham might beat DePaul. The A10 is in a special situation. Unlike the other conferences, we have Bernadette. It could turn out that the person must helpful to the UD basketball program that didn't play, coach or work at UD is Bernadette. EVERY A10 school should be pooling all of its resources to have her named Woman of the Year. Raising her profile will raise the A10 profile. In a philosophic sense, people aspire to be a God. She has a chance to be a modern Goddess. She's powerful. She has insight.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer The break up of the Big East was a major boost for the A10. The Northeast truly identified with the Big East. The Big East put the Northeast basketball scene on the map and in a short time on the top of the mountain. They were defined not just be geography though. They had great coaches. They had a rugged style of play. There were intense rivalries. The current Big East lacks all of this. It has no identity. Butler, Creighton, DePaul and Marquette are complete departures from the Big East roots. Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Villanova and Seton Hall are all that remain. St. Johns is a shadow of the days of Lou and Mullins. Georgetown was put on the map with Ewing, and it's been a slow regression since. Providence is not a power. Providence had a nice tourney run, but they're not a serious player. Villanova was he class of the conference this year, but they've been hit or miss historically. As to X, I truly believe they're the only school that matches the old intensity of the glory days of the Big East. They may not be as highly ranked and don't have the same talent, but they do play a rugged, in your face style of basketball. While we criticize them as thugs, the Big East didn't shy away from its thug image. The bottom line is that the Big East is everything we all expected....something less. This leaves a void in the Northeast. The A10 is in a unique position to be the conference of the Northeast. It will require a slightly less than Herculean feat by Bernadette. But, I have an unexplained level of confidence in her. The A10 needs to take hold of the top basketball centric conference. It's likely a pipe dream, but I wonder if there are any possible defectors. We know that Marquette, Georgetown and Xavier are out. Villanova is the school I would want....want them back. There is no other school I would rather join the conference. Georgetown is far too smug (they may want to look at Flyer history and realize that 2 decades of dominance does not guarantee success for the rest of time). St Johns is irrelevant. Providence was big when they were one of the first to build a huge arena, but not much since. I have zero interest in Seton Hall. Who knows what lies in the future of the Big East. They're TV contract won't be renewed. There's simply no interest. But, the A10 has some real excitement. There's no in-fighting about adding schools. Davidson and George Mason may not compete regularly in the top half of the conference, but the top half is tough. I'd take Davidson and George Mason over DePaul. Fordham might beat DePaul. The A10 is in a special situation. Unlike the other conferences, we have Bernadette. It could turn out that the person must helpful to the UD basketball program that didn't play, coach or work at UD is Bernadette. EVERY A10 school should be pooling all of its resources to have her named Woman of the Year. Raising her profile will raise the A10 profile. In a philosophic sense, people aspire to be a God. She has a chance to be a modern Goddess. She's powerful. She has insight.

All true, Hyde Park. But, Dr. Dan wants UD to be associated with the major Catholic Universities of the Big East. And while Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Creighton, Xavier....may not match the schools of the old BE,...and may not be any better than the top schools of the A10,...that core is every bit as good as the A10. Further, even with a significantly reduced TV deal the BE will pull in a lot more money than the A10.

Combine those issues and UD is a gonner if the BE ever asks us in.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[flyerfever]

They won't ask. X wall gum up the works.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by flyerfever They won't ask. X wall gum up the works.

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.

If TV ratings fall well below Fox's expectations they will call the shots...unless the BE schools are willing to accept a significantly reduced TV deal.

I think the A10 is a fine place for UD. If SLU winds up in the BE that puts UD as a mid-west outlier of sorts. But, nothing like Creighton. Gonzaga and Butler proved that conference affilation is far less important than winning and Dance participation.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ScottyExpress]

There aren't many reasons that UD shouldn't get an invite into the BE. Don't think X administration is plotting against us, their fans maybe, but not the powers that be. Dayton and St Louis will make the Big East better, period. No such thing as a zero sum gain in this situation. We are a Catholic school, we are committed to having a respected national BB presence, we have the money, we have the history, the national respect, and we have the fan base. Dayton isn't going away if they get snubbed by the Big East, they can't just push us under the rug and act like we were never there, even if some of the schools want to. We belong in the Big East. That is where we will end up.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TerryK_67]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.

Thank God for small favors! We do not want our wagon hitched to that crowd!
GO FLYERS!

[CE80]

I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by CE80 I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.

But UD also has to be willing to accept that UD "standards" of recruiting may not keep up with getting questionable talent that others do.

For every team that the BE has in it's conference, you are going to have the top half of the conference and the bottom half. You better be prepared to do what you need to do to remain in the top half or you may just stay near the bottom for some time.

[jack72]

By the way the NBE got 2 bids for the Women's NCAA and the A10 three. Many people thought it would be a step up for our ladies program to go to the NBE. Not true.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.

Not a factor.