|
|
03-19-2014, 11:37 AM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,250
Thanks: 1,237
Thanked 1,507 Times in 823 Posts
|
|
By the numbers: Why realignment really hasn't hurt the A-10's status...
Circa 2001, there were the 6 big BCS conferences with a total of 68 teams. MWC, CUSA, and the A10 were the best of the 'mid-majors', with a total of 34 teams. 102 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences.
This year, the Big East has split into the Big East and AAC. Really, they're both a little bit lower status than the other 5 BCS conferences, but we'll count all 7 as the 'high majors'. All together, those 7 conferences have 83 teams. The MWC and the A10 have a total of 24 teams. 107 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences. Note that CUSA is no longer included here... they aren't as relevant.
And that's the real point... the other mid-major conferences have lost a lot more than the A10 has. The A10 lost Xavier and Temple, but that's not so much compared to the others. C-USA has drastically lost status... pretty much every relevant team is now in the AAC or Big East. We 'lost' Butler but never really had them in the first place. The Horizon League really lost Butler. MAC has been down for a long time and didn't even need to lose anything. MWC lost Utah. And then BYU left the MWC and went to the WCC, bringing the MWC and WCC closer to parity but putting both of them below the A10. MVC lost Creighton.
The A10 has 9 top 100 RPI teams... tied for first with the ACC. It's an up year for the A10, but even taking that into consideration, they're closer to the high-majors than the mid-majors.
|
03-19-2014, 11:58 AM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
It was only one year. This thing is far from over. It is not long before the big football-centric conferences make more moves to drive out the littler guys. I think the latest thing was the Las Vegas oddsmakers saying that the selection committee's seedings were a joke. I know it is supposed to be based upon your resume but I don't think that will sits well with the big boys. They will want more control.
|
03-19-2014, 12:30 PM
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,250
Thanks: 1,237
Thanked 1,507 Times in 823 Posts
|
|
My point is that although the big conferences have absorbed 15 teams from the lower conferences in the past decade or so, it has hurt other conferences more than it's hurt the A10. To such a point that the A10 is still part of the conversation when you talk about the top 100 teams in D1 basketball. Basically, what has changed is that half of CUSA moved up and half of CUSA is no longer relevant. Of course, there were plenty of other small moves, too, but the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today.
I'm sure we would move to the Big East if they called, but I'm not too worried about it. Even in a down year, there's enough strength in the A10 most years to remain a multi-bid league.
|
03-19-2014, 12:47 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,593
Thanks: 3,395
Thanked 6,634 Times in 3,033 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
My point is that although the big conferences have absorbed 15 teams from the lower conferences in the past decade or so, it has hurt other conferences more than it's hurt the A10. To such a point that the A10 is still part of the conversation when you talk about the top 100 teams in D1 basketball. Basically, what has changed is that half of CUSA moved up and half of CUSA is no longer relevant. Of course, there were plenty of other small moves, too, but the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today.
|
But the fall of CUSA is due to football, and most of the other changes are due to football. That is why we have not been affected as much.
|
Mad Props to longtimefan For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-19-2014, 02:25 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,238
Thanks: 3,991
Thanked 4,603 Times in 2,849 Posts
|
|
Say what?
Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
. the fall of CUSA is the major change from 2001 to today....
|
In 2001 the "old" Big East was one of the six power conferences...solid in football and the best basketball conference in history. That conference no longer exists.
|
03-19-2014, 03:03 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,642
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 4,578 Times in 2,405 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
Circa 2001, there were the 6 big BCS conferences with a total of 68 teams. MWC, CUSA, and the A10 were the best of the 'mid-majors', with a total of 34 teams. 102 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences.
This year, the Big East has split into the Big East and AAC. Really, they're both a little bit lower status than the other 5 BCS conferences, but we'll count all 7 as the 'high majors'. All together, those 7 conferences have 83 teams. The MWC and the A10 have a total of 24 teams. 107 teams total in the high major and top mid-major conferences. Note that CUSA is no longer included here... they aren't as relevant.
And that's the real point... the other mid-major conferences have lost a lot more than the A10 has. The A10 lost Xavier and Temple, but that's not so much compared to the others. C-USA has drastically lost status... pretty much every relevant team is now in the AAC or Big East. We 'lost' Butler but never really had them in the first place. The Horizon League really lost Butler. MAC has been down for a long time and didn't even need to lose anything. MWC lost Utah. And then BYU left the MWC and went to the WCC, bringing the MWC and WCC closer to parity but putting both of them below the A10. MVC lost Creighton.
The A10 has 9 top 100 RPI teams... tied for first with the ACC. It's an up year for the A10, but even taking that into consideration, they're closer to the high-majors than the mid-majors.
|
Reallignment hasn't hurt us for one reason. Timing. The A10 could count on 5 or 6 teams vying for an ncaa position every season. The addition last year of Butler and VCU accounted for our one added spot in the Tourny. But when the mighty fall, usually that means the weak are about to rise. And it just so happened that X, Butler and Temple all fell at the same time, couldn't have worked out better for the A10. We've seen over the years where we think UD is ready to take over the conference due to X or other teams losing a slew of seniors. And then comes RI, SJ, Charlotte etc to take their place and UD remains in the middle. Well this year it happened again and the teams that fell happened to have left the conference. And the beautiful part is Dayton raised it's game.
Perfect storm this year.
|
Mad Props to Smitty10 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-19-2014, 03:32 PM
|
|
Major General
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,891
Thanks: 655
Thanked 3,699 Times in 1,668 Posts
|
|
Except that Charlotte sucked for their entire A10 existence. They rose, joined the A10 and fell the second they got there, then left the A10 and probably will rise again without the A10 getting anything out of them. But oh well.
|
03-19-2014, 03:46 PM
|
|
General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,642
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 4,578 Times in 2,405 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Except that Charlotte sucked for their entire A10 existence. They rose, joined the A10 and fell the second they got there, then left the A10 and probably will rise again without the A10 getting anything out of them. But oh well.
|
You're right, take Charlotte out and put UMASS in my post.
|
03-19-2014, 04:05 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,418
Thanks: 364
Thanked 1,459 Times in 777 Posts
|
|
The break up of the Big East was a major boost for the A10. The Northeast truly identified with the Big East. The Big East put the Northeast basketball scene on the map and in a short time on the top of the mountain. They were defined not just be geography though. They had great coaches. They had a rugged style of play. There were intense rivalries. The current Big East lacks all of this. It has no identity. Butler, Creighton, DePaul and Marquette are complete departures from the Big East roots. Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Villanova and Seton Hall are all that remain. St. Johns is a shadow of the days of Lou and Mullins. Georgetown was put on the map with Ewing, and it's been a slow regression since. Providence is not a power. Providence had a nice tourney run, but they're not a serious player. Villanova was he class of the conference this year, but they've been hit or miss historically. As to X, I truly believe they're the only school that matches the old intensity of the glory days of the Big East. They may not be as highly ranked and don't have the same talent, but they do play a rugged, in your face style of basketball. While we criticize them as thugs, the Big East didn't shy away from its thug image. The bottom line is that the Big East is everything we all expected....something less. This leaves a void in the Northeast. The A10 is in a unique position to be the conference of the Northeast. It will require a slightly less than Herculean feat by Bernadette. But, I have an unexplained level of confidence in her. The A10 needs to take hold of the top basketball centric conference. It's likely a pipe dream, but I wonder if there are any possible defectors. We know that Marquette, Georgetown and Xavier are out. Villanova is the school I would want....want them back. There is no other school I would rather join the conference. Georgetown is far too smug (they may want to look at Flyer history and realize that 2 decades of dominance does not guarantee success for the rest of time). St Johns is irrelevant. Providence was big when they were one of the first to build a huge arena, but not much since. I have zero interest in Seton Hall. Who knows what lies in the future of the Big East. They're TV contract won't be renewed. There's simply no interest. But, the A10 has some real excitement. There's no in-fighting about adding schools. Davidson and George Mason may not compete regularly in the top half of the conference, but the top half is tough. I'd take Davidson and George Mason over DePaul. Fordham might beat DePaul. The A10 is in a special situation. Unlike the other conferences, we have Bernadette. It could turn out that the person must helpful to the UD basketball program that didn't play, coach or work at UD is Bernadette. EVERY A10 school should be pooling all of its resources to have her named Woman of the Year. Raising her profile will raise the A10 profile. In a philosophic sense, people aspire to be a God. She has a chance to be a modern Goddess. She's powerful. She has insight.
|
03-19-2014, 04:17 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,238
Thanks: 3,991
Thanked 4,603 Times in 2,849 Posts
|
|
Yeah, but,...
Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer
The break up of the Big East was a major boost for the A10. The Northeast truly identified with the Big East. The Big East put the Northeast basketball scene on the map and in a short time on the top of the mountain. They were defined not just be geography though. They had great coaches. They had a rugged style of play. There were intense rivalries. The current Big East lacks all of this. It has no identity. Butler, Creighton, DePaul and Marquette are complete departures from the Big East roots. Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Villanova and Seton Hall are all that remain. St. Johns is a shadow of the days of Lou and Mullins. Georgetown was put on the map with Ewing, and it's been a slow regression since. Providence is not a power. Providence had a nice tourney run, but they're not a serious player. Villanova was he class of the conference this year, but they've been hit or miss historically. As to X, I truly believe they're the only school that matches the old intensity of the glory days of the Big East. They may not be as highly ranked and don't have the same talent, but they do play a rugged, in your face style of basketball. While we criticize them as thugs, the Big East didn't shy away from its thug image. The bottom line is that the Big East is everything we all expected....something less. This leaves a void in the Northeast. The A10 is in a unique position to be the conference of the Northeast. It will require a slightly less than Herculean feat by Bernadette. But, I have an unexplained level of confidence in her. The A10 needs to take hold of the top basketball centric conference. It's likely a pipe dream, but I wonder if there are any possible defectors. We know that Marquette, Georgetown and Xavier are out. Villanova is the school I would want....want them back. There is no other school I would rather join the conference. Georgetown is far too smug (they may want to look at Flyer history and realize that 2 decades of dominance does not guarantee success for the rest of time). St Johns is irrelevant. Providence was big when they were one of the first to build a huge arena, but not much since. I have zero interest in Seton Hall. Who knows what lies in the future of the Big East. They're TV contract won't be renewed. There's simply no interest. But, the A10 has some real excitement. There's no in-fighting about adding schools. Davidson and George Mason may not compete regularly in the top half of the conference, but the top half is tough. I'd take Davidson and George Mason over DePaul. Fordham might beat DePaul. The A10 is in a special situation. Unlike the other conferences, we have Bernadette. It could turn out that the person must helpful to the UD basketball program that didn't play, coach or work at UD is Bernadette. EVERY A10 school should be pooling all of its resources to have her named Woman of the Year. Raising her profile will raise the A10 profile. In a philosophic sense, people aspire to be a God. She has a chance to be a modern Goddess. She's powerful. She has insight.
|
All true, Hyde Park. But, Dr. Dan wants UD to be associated with the major Catholic Universities of the Big East. And while Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Creighton, Xavier....may not match the schools of the old BE,...and may not be any better than the top schools of the A10,...that core is every bit as good as the A10. Further, even with a significantly reduced TV deal the BE will pull in a lot more money than the A10.
Combine those issues and UD is a gonner if the BE ever asks us in.
|
03-19-2014, 05:32 PM
|
Lieutenant Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kettering
Posts: 847
Thanks: 1,567
Thanked 223 Times in 129 Posts
|
|
They won't ask. X wall gum up the works.
|
03-19-2014, 06:19 PM
|
Brigadier General
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,418
Thanks: 364
Thanked 1,459 Times in 777 Posts
|
|
I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.
|
03-19-2014, 06:55 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,238
Thanks: 3,991
Thanked 4,603 Times in 2,849 Posts
|
|
Fox
Originally Posted by flyerfever
They won't ask. X wall gum up the works.
|
Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer
I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.
|
If TV ratings fall well below Fox's expectations they will call the shots...unless the BE schools are willing to accept a significantly reduced TV deal.
I think the A10 is a fine place for UD. If SLU winds up in the BE that puts UD as a mid-west outlier of sorts. But, nothing like Creighton. Gonzaga and Butler proved that conference affilation is far less important than winning and Dance participation.
|
03-19-2014, 06:56 PM
|
Major
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Dayton
Posts: 605
Thanks: 143
Thanked 374 Times in 184 Posts
|
|
There aren't many reasons that UD shouldn't get an invite into the BE. Don't think X administration is plotting against us, their fans maybe, but not the powers that be. Dayton and St Louis will make the Big East better, period. No such thing as a zero sum gain in this situation. We are a Catholic school, we are committed to having a respected national BB presence, we have the money, we have the history, the national respect, and we have the fan base. Dayton isn't going away if they get snubbed by the Big East, they can't just push us under the rug and act like we were never there, even if some of the schools want to. We belong in the Big East. That is where we will end up.
Last edited by ScottyExpress; 03-19-2014 at 06:59 PM..
|
Mad Props to ScottyExpress For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-19-2014, 07:07 PM
|
Colonel
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: westerville, Ohio
Posts: 1,358
Thanks: 902
Thanked 978 Times in 480 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer
I don't think that UD is getting an invite either. X will oppose it, and I don't think that Marquette will support it either.
|
Thank God for small favors! We do not want our wagon hitched to that crowd!
GO FLYERS!
|
Mad Props to TerryK_67 For This Totally Excellent Post:
|
|
03-19-2014, 07:42 PM
|
General of the Air Force
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,778
Thanks: 5,498
Thanked 6,255 Times in 3,097 Posts
|
|
I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.
|
03-19-2014, 08:36 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: It's hot and there is fire
Posts: 9,356
Thanks: 5,414
Thanked 9,814 Times in 4,075 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by CE80
I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.
|
But UD also has to be willing to accept that UD "standards" of recruiting may not keep up with getting questionable talent that others do.
For every team that the BE has in it's conference, you are going to have the top half of the conference and the bottom half. You better be prepared to do what you need to do to remain in the top half or you may just stay near the bottom for some time.
|
03-19-2014, 08:39 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 22,258
Thanks: 17,641
Thanked 10,170 Times in 5,898 Posts
|
|
By the way the NBE got 2 bids for the Women's NCAA and the A10 three. Many people thought it would be a step up for our ladies program to go to the NBE. Not true.
|
03-19-2014, 10:21 PM
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,238
Thanks: 3,991
Thanked 4,603 Times in 2,849 Posts
|
|
C'mon `80
Originally Posted by CE80
I have said it in other threads -- I think some Big East schools are afraid to give UD a better platform to recruit students not just athletes.
|
Not a factor.
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|