Xaviers Adrion Graves to Transfer...

UDF4N4LIF3 · #1 08-14-2008, 05:48 PM

Someone on a Xavier Message Board said, "Word around campus is that Adrian Graves has asked for his release and will be transferring to a different school. Anyone else heard any news of this?"

He was going to be a Junior this season. Lets face it Xavier never gave him a chance but Graves sure can launch the three ball.

According to rivals.com he was a three star prospect and was recruited by Brian Gregory. Do you think their is any chance he tries to get Graves?

Iguomaniac · #2 08-14-2008, 06:13 PM

There is no way that BG has any interest in Graves. UD seemed like his first choice early, but then he started stringing us along while hoping to get a scholarship offer from UC. Then Huggins left and he took at scholarship at XU while remaining very clear on signing day that XU was not his first choice. Now after missing most of one season due to illness and another season of mediocre play, I think he's going to be lucky to find a roster spot on a mid-major DI school.

XUFAN02 · #3 08-14-2008, 06:21 PM

Iguomaniac has it right. Graves first year at Xavier was a wash, he played 13 games and then had a leg injury, and last year he fell in the depth chart because of his inability to play defense. Xavier did give Graves the opportunity but he never put it together on the court.

With two combo guards, Lyons, Redford, another SG, Walsh, and another wing, Crawford, on board Graves saw the writing on the wall. I wish him luck, UD has no scholarships, and they have no need for him. I think in the end he will end up at BGSU with Cincinnati native Louis Orr. BGSU has two scholarships to give for this season still.

Source · #4 08-14-2008, 06:25 PM

AD was not going to get significant minutes this season. His ballhandling and defense lagged behind. I can only speculate that X thinks that the NCAA will allow IU transfer Jordan Crawford to play right away this winter but X did not have a spot for him.
Its certainly been a revolving door in Sean Miller's office.

San Diego Flyer · #5 08-14-2008, 06:45 PM

It's been pretty obvious that UD dodged a bullet in the recruiting process. We tried hard and he chose one of his other options, thankfully.

XUFAN02 · #6 08-14-2008, 06:59 PM

No doubt Marcus Johnson has been the better recruit thus far. Marcus has always played harder than Graves and has great athleticsm. I watched him in the Deveroes League this summer and his outside shot looks much improved. I would not be surprised is he is the leading scorer for you this season.

Source · #7 08-14-2008, 11:23 PM

Graves to NKU.

AdamtheFlyer · #8 08-14-2008, 11:38 PM

As often as kids transfer these days, X will be lucky if he's the only one that goes over the next 12 months. They have an abundance of kids with not enough minutes to go around. Kids want minutes. Easy math. The kids willing to wait two-three years for their shot, or play 4 years as a role player, are few and far between. There are just too many opportunities to play for money in the world today. Most D1 players have the ability to do it, so sitting on the bench not only sucks in the short term, it hurts in the long term, too.

Both sides will be fine in this case. Probably the best for both, actually.

San Diego Flyer · #9 08-15-2008, 09:52 AM

In a strange way I think he made the right choice going to NKU. And not for leaving Xavier, but for realizing that he has no pro future and he just wants to play hoops. And at NKU he can play every minute of every game if he wants. If nothing else he has proven that he is a scorer, although he has never seen a shot he didn't like.

Apparently he is lacking in some other areas that are not improving, so why not go have some fun, and above all get a degree.

Gazoo · #10 08-15-2008, 10:45 AM

IMO we're throwing him under the bus here. I don't think he's such a horrible player and could contribute on >90% of D1 rosters. Ours included (though we don't have a scholly).

Maybe after 2 years of not much playing time he just can't stomach the thought of sitting on the bench for yet another year while waiting to be eligible. Patience is not everyone's virtue.

Many players have made it coming from very small schools.

D West · #11 08-15-2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Source

AD was not going to get significant minutes this season.
Its certainly been a revolving door in Sean Miller's office.

You are right on that swinging door with better players coming in and players figuring out they weren't going to play going elsewhere.

In......Lavendar, Anderson, McLean, Crawford.....

Out....Wolf, Bronson, Graves

Upgrades at each position and another Elite 8 trip. If that's a revolving door, X fans want it to continue.

Dayton got a taste of upgrading a roster with the kid that went to Northern KY and then Plummer leaving. It's ok for healthy, thriving programs to have kids look elsewhere for various reasons.

UDBrian · #12 08-15-2008, 12:20 PM

Do you think that these guys were lightly pushed out the door or did this all happen voluntarily? There is no question that players don't want to sit on the bench for four years and UD will also see some of this because of the talented players coming in.

D West · #13 08-15-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by D West

You are right on that swinging door with better players coming in and players figuring out they weren't going to play going elsewhere.

In......Lavendar, Anderson, McLean, Crawford.....

Out....Wolf, Bronson, Graves

Upgrades at each position and another Elite 8 trip. If that's a revolving door, X fans want it to continue.

Dayton got a taste of upgrading a roster with the kid that went to Northern KY and then Plummer leaving. It's ok for healthy, thriving programs to have kids look elsewhere for various reasons.

I forgot that the door only swings one way at UD............Alvarez. Meachum. Plummer. Cripe. Big Des. Cordiero.

anthonycharles · #14 08-15-2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

IMO we're throwing him under the bus here. I don't think he's such a horrible player and could contribute on >90% of D1 rosters. Ours included (though we don't have a scholly).

Maybe after 2 years of not much playing time he just can't stomach the thought of sitting on the bench for yet another year while waiting to be eligible. Patience is not everyone's virtue.

Many players have made it coming from very small schools.

If you do not give the effort on the defensive side of the ball, Brian Gregory will not give you any pt. So, in essence, he wouldn't contribute at all at UD (or X for that matter) if you aren't willing to give the effort on defense.

XUFAN02 · #15 08-15-2008, 03:21 PM

I honestly think UD fans are going to be getting a taste of this more too. Chris Wright is a 30+ minute/game player, and guys like Chris Johnson/Fabrizius might see limited to no action while Wright is at UD. Benson could leap frog Searcy who did not produce but showed potential. Also if Paul Williams is as good as advertised Chris Johnson might not get any pt. It is a testiment to the depth of your program.

Fudd · #16 08-15-2008, 03:23 PM

Xavier has become transfer - U lately. They have an average number of transfers out and their team has been built on transfers in for the last 3 years. They are in the strange recruiting position of being second fiddle to the best recruits in Cincy. But they have done a nice job of getting guys from the area who run into academic or legal trouble at BCS schools.

DallasFlyer · #17 08-15-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer

In a strange way I think he made the right choice going to NKU. And not for leaving Xavier, but for realizing that he has no pro future and he just wants to play hoops. And at NKU he can play every minute of every game if he wants. If nothing else he has proven that he is a scorer, although he has never seen a shot he didn't like.

Apparently he is lacking in some other areas that are not improving, so why not go have some fun, and above all get a degree.

Not disagreeing but players with less talent than Adrion, have made a living playing pro ball overseas. There are plenty of leagues where shot selection and your ability to play defense aren't requrements. Remember the dreadlocked human turnover that was Jihad Muhammad who played for the Bearcats, he plays in Saudi Arabia. Heck, Marice Beyina played in France. He couldn't do anything besides foul people. He was a good fouler.

D West · #18 08-15-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fudd

Xavier has become transfer - U lately. They have an average number of transfers out and their team has been built on transfers in for the last 3 years. They are in the strange recruiting position of being second fiddle to the best recruits in Cincy. But they have done a nice job of getting guys from the area who run into academic or legal trouble at BCS schools.

Two 4 star and three 3 star freshman recruits indicates that they do it with a combination of transfers and incoming players. They reload at X.

This year's starters at X probably will be Love, Raymond, Holloway, Brown and Anderson. Only Anderson was a Xavier transfer. Holloway will be an incoming freshman although he originally signed with IU before signing a letter of intent with XU.

Jackson, Lyons, Walsh, Frease and McLean will be the key backups with McLean being a transfer.

Crawford from IU will sit one year unless the NCAA rules in his favor. It's a pretty good mix from what I see. UD will have two transfers on the team this year?

Regarding trouble, I'm not sure what trouble McLean, Crawford or Anderson had. Can you explain?

San Diego Flyer · #19 08-15-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Not disagreeing but players with less talent than Adrion, have made a living playing pro ball overseas. There are plenty of leagues where shot selection and your ability to play defense aren't requrements. Remember the dreadlocked human turnover that was Jihad Muhammad who played for the Bearcats, he plays in Saudi Arabia. Heck, Marice Beyina played in France. He couldn't do anything besides foul people. He was a good fouler.

So far Graves has been a star at Deveroes only. We'll see how that works out for him. The YMCA courts are full of his kind. I agree foreign ball is on the upswing, but I'll be curious to see how all this plays out in a couple of years.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: CJ Anderson had his share of off court issues and was ineligible for Manhattan in the end. He had definitely run out the string there.

Fudd · #20 08-15-2008, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by D West

Two 4 star and three 3 star freshman recruits indicates that they do it with a combination of transfers and incoming players. They reload at X.

This year's starters at X probably will be Love, Raymond, Holloway, Brown and Anderson. Only Anderson was a Xavier transfer. Holloway will be an incoming freshman although he originally signed with IU before signing a letter of intent with XU.

Jackson, Lyons, Walsh, Frease and McLean will be the key backups with McLean being a transfer.

Crawford from IU will sit one year unless the NCAA rules in his favor. It's a pretty good mix from what I see. UD will have two transfers on the team this year?

Regarding trouble, I'm not sure what trouble McLean, Crawford or Anderson had. Can you explain?

Wasn't Anderson on academic probation at Manhattan? And he has had some other legal issues from what I understand. I think that Lavender came in with some former drug issues at OK, right? And I heard that Crawford was suspended at IU for some time last year. I don't know of any issues with McLean.

John C. · #21 08-15-2008, 07:25 PM

Johnson is going to be the big surprise this year. Don't be surprised if he logs as many minutes as Little. Mark it down.

Atlantic 10 · #22 08-15-2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by John C.

Johnson is going to be the big surprise this year. Don't be surprised if he logs as many minutes as Little. Mark it down.

Are you talking about Chris Johnson? Since there are 2 Johnsons on the team this year and yes Chris is going to be a suprise this year

Sea Bass · #23 08-15-2008, 09:03 PM

having 2 Johnsons can make it special

San Diego Flyer · #24 08-15-2008, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by John C.

Johnson is going to be the big surprise this year. Don't be surprised if he logs as many minutes as Little. Mark it down.

The long Johnson or the Little/Johnson?

D West · #25 08-15-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fudd

Wasn't Anderson on academic probation at Manhattan? And he has had some other legal issues from what I understand. I think that Lavender came in with some former drug issues at OK, right? And I heard that Crawford was suspended at IU for some time last year. I don't know of any issues with McLean.

Thank you for clearly stating what you know and more importantly, what you don't know.

longtimefan · #26 08-15-2008, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by D West

Thank you for clearly stating what you know and more importantly, what you don't know.

I notice that you didn't confirm or deny any of Fudd's statements.

D West · #27 08-15-2008, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

I notice that you didn't confirm or deny any of Fudd's statements.

I noticed that I didn't make the accusation. Do you have any details?

UDF4N4LIF3 · #28 08-15-2008, 11:45 PM

D West got burnt bad lol Xavier is for good basketball talent with low IQ's and being the B**** for the fellow inmates.

Fudd · #29 08-16-2008, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by D West

I noticed that I didn't make the accusation. Do you have any details?

I think I could give the details if I dug a bit, but I'm not trying to demean those players. You asked me to explain and I explained. I think what I said was fair.

D West · #30 08-16-2008, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Fudd

I think I could give the details if I dug a bit, but I'm not trying to demean those players. You asked me to explain and I explained. I think what I said was fair.

Thanks for not going there with details after you made the accusation about these kids. That's classy. You could have said something about wrapping a car around a tree after a late night, alcohol induced trip to Wendy's or grabbing peanut butter for a "kidnapped" trip to Texas or New Mexico. Bottom line is these kids are in good standing, will graduate if they stay at Xavier for their senior year (73 straight seniors have done that) and will succeed. Every school has some issues, but the track record is eXcellent.

Fudd · #31 08-16-2008, 08:36 AM

Which of the things I said do you consider an "accusation" that cannot be supported with credible reports?

longtimefan · #32 08-16-2008, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by D West

Thanks for not going there with details after you made the accusation about these kids. That's classy.

You want details? ok. It has been reported that Drew Lavender was arrested early Sunday morning, April 6, and charged with disorderly conduct while intoxicated and possession of marijuana. It was reported that he was asked by police to move out of a Cincinnati street intersection and refused until apprehension. Is he in "good standing?"

San Diego Flyer · #33 08-16-2008, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by D West

Thanks for not going there with details after you made the accusation about these kids. That's classy. You could have said something about wrapping a car around a tree after a late night, alcohol induced trip to Wendy's or grabbing peanut butter for a "kidnapped" trip to Texas or New Mexico. Bottom line is these kids are in good standing, will graduate if they stay at Xavier for their senior year (73 straight seniors have done that) and will succeed. Every school has some issues, but the track record is eXcellent.

I don't have the details on all of them but as far as CJA, you can ask your fellow poster Source about him. That thread is old and is not in the archives. He had a lot of baggage.
So much so that I put the over-n-under at 4 months for him staying at X. Now, to his credit he seems to have matured and gotten past his transgressions.

D West · #34 08-16-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

You want details? ok. It has been reported that Drew Lavender was arrested early Sunday morning, April 6, and charged with disorderly conduct while intoxicated and possession of marijuana. It was reported that he was asked by police to move out of a Cincinnati street intersection and refused until apprehension. Is he in "good standing?"

No doubt Drew made a mistake and paid for it. Although he wasn't silly enough to drive a car impaired, he should have listened to the officer and nothing would have happened. This was post-Elite 8 run but weeks prior to graduation.

CJ was falsely accused and all charges dropped. If you know the story, he is in very good standing and will start his senior season leading the Muskies to potentially two more victories over UD and 5 straight in his career. He's a local kid who wanted to play in his home town.

Still waiting for Crawford details, McLean....(you dropped his name into this) as far as I've ever heard transferred to have a chance to be a champion. He will be at X.

Now, since we are here can I learn more of the peanut butter episode and the Wendy's run?

TerryK_67 · #35 08-16-2008, 10:48 AM

I thought that these _u - UD ****ing matches only happened on the A-10 board? I would just as soon you all took it over there and left us alone!

singlet_of_truth · #36 08-16-2008, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by D West

Thanks for not going there with details after you made the accusation about these kids. That's classy. You could have said something about wrapping a car around a tree after a late night, alcohol induced trip to Wendy's or grabbing peanut butter for a "kidnapped" trip to Texas or New Mexico. Bottom line is these kids are in good standing, will graduate if they stay at Xavier for their senior year (73 straight seniors have done that) and will succeed. Every school has some issues, but the track record is eXcellent.

Ah, do we really need to point out the difference? Those guys were shown the door at UD...

D West · #37 08-16-2008, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

Ah, do we really need to point out the difference? Those guys were shown the door at UD...

Weeks before graduation and after the basketball season..........you would have tossed Drew out of school for disorderly conduct?? There were no issues with Drew while a member of the basketball program other than he shredded UD and A-10.

It's financing homes for players parents and getting put on probation that Xavier is not known for.

They have moved players out for the right reason on occasions when necessary. Lloyd Price was a perfect example as Xavier gave a higly recruited player every chance to succeed. He failed to attend class and they sent him packing. Don't make it appear by re-writing history that UD takes the higher road. They don't and the basketball team continues to underperform for the 3rd decade.

Fudd · #38 08-16-2008, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by D West

No doubt Drew made a mistake and paid for it. Although he wasn't silly enough to drive a car impaired, he should have listened to the officer and nothing would have happened. This was post-Elite 8 run but weeks prior to graduation.

CJ was falsely accused and all charges dropped. If you know the story, he is in very good standing and will start his senior season leading the Muskies to potentially two more victories over UD and 5 straight in his career. He's a local kid who wanted to play in his home town.

Still waiting for Crawford details, McLean....(you dropped his name into this) as far as I've ever heard transferred to have a chance to be a champion. He will be at X.

Now, since we are here can I learn more of the peanut butter episode and the Wendy's run?

Drew has a longer history that pre-dates his arrival at Xavier:

http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2...vender-arrest/

Bob Huggins is long gone and Chris Henry's been released, yet Cincinnati athletes can't seem to steer their way clear of the police blotter. Drew Lavender, whose career as the point guard for the Xavier Musketeers ended in the regional finals, was arrested in early on Sunday morning and charged with disorderly conduct while intoxicated and possession of marijuana.

Police say Lavender was drunk and disorderly after they asked him several times to move out of a Cincinnati street intersection "and refused until apprehension," police documents note.

Lavender's college career began at Oklahoma as a McDonald's All-American and he played well there for two years before transferring to Xavier. While with the Musketeers he starred on the court but never quite shook a reputation for hard living off of it. He was arrested while at Oklahoma and charged with recklessly causing annoyance at a nightclub over the summer.

If there's a silver lining for Xavier it's that arrested players have, for better or worse, long been a hallmark of some of the country's biggest programs. They've chafed at the mid-major label for some time and can now point to the kind of behavior that's gotten programs from the SEC to Big East in trouble as a reason why they're big-time.

And there was another arrest before the drunk/marijuana incident with Cincinnati police.

http://www.thesportspoint.net/2008/0...-arrested.html

What a difference a week makes. Last weekend Xavier PG Drew Lavender was leading his team in an elite 8 game vs UCLA. This past Sunday morning he was arrested on charges of disorderly conduct and marijuana possession.

According to police reports, Lavender stood in the middle of a street intersection and refused to move after being asked to do so by authorities. This led to his apprehension and the marijuana was found on him when he was searched.

This is the senior PG's second arrest in two years after he was arrested last summer for recklessly causing annoyance.

Fudd · #39 08-16-2008, 12:22 PM

Anderson was actually dismissed from Manhattan, along with missing half of his sophomore season to academic ineligibility:

http://jasperjottings-sports.com/200...s-jaspers.html

New York Daily News - Sports - Jaspers banish Anderson
New York Daily News - Sports - Jaspers banish Anderson

BY SEAN BRENNANDAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

***Begin Quote***

C.J. Anderson's turbulent time at Manhattan is over as team dismisses sophomore star. Just three days after introducing Barry Rohrssen as its new head coach, Manhattan suffered its second player loss in just over a week when C.J. Anderson was dismissed from the team for a violation of team rules."We had a meeting and it was apparent things weren't going to work out," Manhattan athletic director Bob Byrnes said. "His goals and objectives as far as being a member of the team did not match the college's goals and objectives for being a complete student-athlete, so we decided to separate him from the team. We wish him well."

A First Team All-MAAC preseason pick heading into last season, Anderson appeared in just 16 games before being shelved due to academic difficulties.
While in the lineup, the 6-6 sophomore averaged 18.8 points and 9.4 rebounds, both team highs.

The Jaspers posted a 10-5 record with Anderson and a 10-6 mark without him, including an NIT tournament victory over Maryland.

For Anderson, who landed MAAC Rookie of the Year honors following the 2004-05 season, this was not his first brush with trouble at the school. Midway through his freshman season, Anderson was suspended for one game along with then-teammate Peter Mulligan for their alleged involvement in an altercation at a bar near campus.
What's next for Anderson? Transferring, for one thing; look for him to perhaps surface somewhere near his home in Cincinnati. Byrnes did say he had been contacted by Xavier about Anderson's status, and now that he is free to transfer, the Musketeers could be where he'll land. Cincinnati is also rumored to be interested, but regardless, Anderson will have to sit out one season before playing at a new school due to NCAA transfer rules.

Anderson's departure follows Jeff Xavier's decision to transfer to Providence. While the move is not official yet, Xavier, a Rhode Island product, told the Daily News on Tuesday that Providence is his "dream school" and that he wants to finish his career playing in front of his family and friends.

Anderson and Xavier combined for more than 35 points and 15 rebounds last season and will be tough to replace. Sophomore center Arturo Dubois is the only member of the Jaspers' "big three" remaining on the roster, and Rohrssen is sure to make it his priority to keep him in the fold. On the upside, Anderson and Xavier's defections give Rohrssen, a master recruiter, two more scholarships to use to reload.

The Jaspers already have guards Andre Tarver from Wings Academy in the Bronx and Brett Harvey from Clarkstown South HS in Rockland signed for next season.

Originally published on April 29, 2006

***End Quote***

Fudd · #40 08-16-2008, 12:27 PM

Crawford suspension:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3130605

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Indiana guard Jordan Crawford has been suspended three games for violating team rules, coach Kelvin Sampson announced just minutes before the 15th-ranked Hoosiers played Georgia Tech on Tuesday night.

The statement, issued through sports information director J.D. Campbell, said Sampson would have no further comment on the matter.

Crawford, a freshman, has been a key reserve for Indiana this season, averaging 12.6 points.

longtimefan · #41 08-16-2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Fudd

Drew has a longer history that pre-dates his arrival at Xavier:

http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2...vender-arrest/

Originally Posted by Fudd

Anderson was actually dismissed from Manhattan, along with missing half of his sophomore season to academic ineligibility:

http://jasperjottings-sports.com/200...s-jaspers.html

Originally Posted by Fudd

Crawford suspension:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3130605

Bingo!

THirt · #42 08-16-2008, 03:35 PM

Fudd, I thought your initial response was more than fair, but to dig up the info and post it without judgement was a knockout punch to Delonte West's gut. Well done.

And for the record, saying "I don't know of any issues with McLean" is hardly "dropping" his name into the conversation. Sheesh.

Graves is and was a headcase, and you Musty fans ought to be saying good riddance instead of trying to make fun of a mentally ill former Flyer.

hUDygrad · #43 08-16-2008, 06:33 PM

I'm sorry but is it just me or do our fans seem to be trying to take shots at a team that we are trying to get to their level. 2 Elite 's in 5 years and we are worried about someone's character? I don't care about a kids past if it isn't really bad and I don't really care what a kid does once he graduates. Come in and do your job and stay out of trouble while you're eligible. Lavender and cja were huge pickups for _avier and haven't done anything to their reputation other than increase it.

SideshowBob · #44 08-16-2008, 07:18 PM

Would we want UD to recruit this guy? He happens to be one of Xaviers top recruit targets at the moment.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/conten...889&CID=807872

As reported by the New York Daily News this Tuesday, at St. Raymond High School in the Bronx, NY 6-6 Small Forward Kevin Parrom and head Coach Oliver Antigua were in an altercation yesterday afternoon.

The altercation resulted in Parrom's arrest by the police during a team meeting at the school.

According to the NY Daily News an eyewitness claims Parrom punched Ravens head coach Antigua in the face after the two had a brief argument in the locker room. There were no charges filed and Coach Antigua did not receive any medical treatment.

I was supportive of cutting the ties with Plummer after his incident and whatever team rules he violated. I thought it was a class move on the part of UD because he certainly would have helped our team depth. But some things are more important to the program.

I am of the opinion that Xavier is slowly moving away from their core principles that earned a good reputation. Every program has their own incidents, but when you go after kids en masse who have demonstrated that they are a high risk, you get bad things going on the program, and you shouldn't be suprised. I remember, when BG arrived he was quoted about a conversation where he asked Izzo what the biggest key to a long term successful program was. Izzo replied that the character of the kids in your program makes or breaks you.

I'm sorry but is it just me or do our fans seem to be trying to take shots at a team that we are trying to get to their level. 2 Elite 's in 5 years and we are worried about someone's character? I don't care about a kids past if it isn't really bad and I don't really care what a kid does once he graduates. Come in and do your job and stay out of trouble while you're eligible. Lavender and cja were huge pickups for _avier and haven't done anything to their reputation other than increase it.

Hudygrad, as far as "taking shots" is concerned, I don't think UD fans were happy about the Plummer car wreck incident, but it was openly discussed here. Everything I have seen in this thread so far is easily substantiated. These are real issues, and nothing here refers to incidents after graduation. In fact, many of these incidents occured before these players were recruited by X! I also hardly believe Lavender's actions did anything to elevate or even maintain the reputation of the X program. If a UD player did the same thing, and you claimed he increased the reputation of UD, you would be laughed off the site

hUDygrad · #45 08-16-2008, 08:05 PM

Lavender's event happened after the season was over. I would say that his performance during the season did, in fact, enhance their reputation because he had a big hand in getting them to the Elite 8. I would bet that 99.9% of the country has no idea what happened to him in April after the season. If a Flyer led us to the Elite 8 and then got into a bit of trouble just before graduation, I really wouldn't have a problem with it depending on the offense. From what I heard it was just a stupid mistake of not listening to an officer's request.

SideshowBob · #46 08-16-2008, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

From what I heard it was just a stupid mistake of not listening to an officer's request.

Yeah, let me clear you up on the details. Lavender gets smashed drunk and refuses to get out of the street when confronted by police at 2:15 am. He talks his way into being arrested for failing to leave the intersection. Police find Marijuana on him during the arrest, and the rest is reputation increasing history.

This after previously getting arrested at a Main Street bar and being accused of some distastful racist comments. He ended up paying a disorderly conduct fine for that gem.

The Citizens For A Better Norwood are up in arms about it:

http://citizensforabetternorwood.blo...-lavender.html

I guess another rinky-dink sports news organization heard about it and reported:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3334612

AdamtheFlyer · #47 08-16-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by XUFAN02

I honestly think UD fans are going to be getting a taste of this more too. Chris Wright is a 30+ minute/game player, and guys like Chris Johnson/Fabrizius might see limited to no action while Wright is at UD. Benson could leap frog Searcy who did not produce but showed potential. Also if Paul Williams is as good as advertised Chris Johnson might not get any pt. It is a testiment to the depth of your program.

You scenario would go completely against the style of play Gregory has always preferred. Everyone that earns them in practice will get minutes. Only Wright and Marcus Johnson are locked into their spots, and the rest will be filled using different combinations. Wright pitying fools will not cost anyone else minutes. There is no set depth chart with BG. One could argue Huelsman has a solid spot, but I won't. Decent depth in the paint and a plethora of different combos and tempos to play, whereas Kurt has some limitations.

Look at it this way:

Searcy and Benson will be capable of playing the 4 or 5 spots.
Wright can play the 3 or 4
MJ the 2 or 3
Chris Johnson the 2 or 3, and will be able to cover at the 4 spot as he fills out physically
Fabreeze will play the 3 or 4, and eventually the 5 as he gets stronger over time
Lowry can play the 1 or 2 if he shoots as advertised
Mickey Perry can play the 2 or 3
Paul Williams can play the 2 or 3, possibly 1 for short stints.
Steven Thomas can play the 1, and fill in at the 2.

Really, only Kurt, London, and Charles Little are set at one position. That leaves a lot of combos for everyone to get minutes. Anyone that has ever watched a BG team knows that all will see minutes and there will be many, many different combos of players.

No one will have their minutes taken by a freshmen that has never suited up. Don't kid yourself, either directly or indirectly, Miller made it clear to Graves that his would be. I don't pass judgment because I think Miller has to do what he feels is best for the program.

hUDygrad · #48 08-16-2008, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

Yeah, let me clear you up on the details. Lavender gets smashed drunk and refuses to get out of the street when confronted by police at 2:15 am. He talks his way into being arrested for failing to leave the intersection. Police find Marijuana on him during the arrest, and the rest is reputation increasing history.

This after previously getting arrested at a Main Street bar and being accused of some distastful racist comments. He ended up paying a disorderly conduct fine for that gem.

The Citizens For A Better Norwood are up in arms about it:

http://citizensforabetternorwood.blo...-lavender.html

I guess another rinky-dink sports news organization heard about it and reported:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3334612

Do you really think that anyone outside of Flyer fans really are up in arms about the "negative impact" that you think this puts on their program?

Reputation increasing history is 2 ELITE EIGHTS IN 5 YEARS. Next year no one will be talking about the character issues of Lavender or cja or a 2009 possible recruit when X is playing on national TV. Believe me, they will be talking about when Miller will be moving on and the tremendous success they have been able to sustain over the last 20 years.

SideshowBob · #49 08-17-2008, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

Do you really think that anyone outside of Flyer fans really are up in arms about the "negative impact" that you think this puts on their program?

Reputation increasing history is 2 ELITE EIGHTS IN 5 YEARS. Next year no one will be talking about the character issues of Lavender or cja or a 2009 possible recruit when X is playing on national TV. Believe me, they will be talking about when Miller will be moving on and the tremendous success they have been able to sustain over the last 20 years.

If it becomes a pattern, it becomes a story. I'm suprised you didn't learn that from the UC neighbors.

hUDygrad · #50 08-17-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

If it becomes a pattern, it becomes a story. I'm suprised you didn't learn that from the UC neighbors.

So you are comparing disorderly conduct to firing a weapon on campus and tying up and beating a guy. I would say that Plummer's mistake was far more serious than DL's.

X has always had to deal with issues just like any other D1 school. That's what separates UD and them from the UC's of the world. They do the right thing just like UD does the right thing.

SideshowBob · #51 08-17-2008, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

So you are comparing disorderly conduct to firing a weapon on campus and tying up and beating a guy. I would say that Plummer's mistake was far more serious than DL's.

X has always had to deal with issues just like any other D1 school. That's what separates UD and them from the UC's of the world. They do the right thing just like UD does the right thing.

But UC is not the team that has players getting arrested and going to jail on a regular basis lately. Don't you watch the news? And they are not recruiting the guys who punch coaches. (That isn't doing the right thing) They were the story in the past, but cleaned up the program. Good for them. I'm amazed at how quickly they have begun to dominate the Cincinnati recruiting scene again. The local players down there seem to think of them as the big deal in town. You really have to give Cronin (and the UC administration) his due.

hUDygrad · #52 08-17-2008, 11:08 AM

going to jail on a regular basis? UC has ALWAYS dominated the local recruiting and always will. Cronin is doing a nice job but it's not him as much as it is the logo and the league. Huggins and even Yates always got who the wanted.

You seem to think that X is this troubled program on a downward spiral when the national perception is anything but that.

SideshowBob · #53 08-17-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

going to jail on a regular basis? UC has ALWAYS dominated the local recruiting and always will. Cronin is doing a nice job but it's not him as much as it is the logo and the league. Huggins and even Yates always got who the wanted.

You seem to think that X is this troubled program on a downward spiral when the national perception is anything but that.

I know there would be questions here if we had similar arrests, jailings, fines, court appearances, recruitment of troubled players, recommendations for expulsion by student-professor commitees, etc. It just is not a good thing for a program.

And I think the lack of fan concern over these issues down at X is one of the new differences between UD and X.

nyc_xu · #54 08-17-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

Would we want UD to recruit this guy? He happens to be one of Xaviers top recruit targets at the moment.

http://kansasstate.rivals.com/conten...889&CID=807872

I was supportive of cutting the ties with Plummer after his incident and whatever team rules he violated. I thought it was a class move on the part of UD because he certainly would have helped our team depth. But some things are more important to the program.

I am of the opinion that Xavier is slowly moving away from their core principles that earned a good reputation. Every program has their own incidents, but when you go after kids en masse who have demonstrated that they are a high risk, you get bad things going on the program, and you shouldn't be suprised. I remember, when BG arrived he was quoted about a conversation where he asked Izzo what the biggest key to a long term successful program was. Izzo replied that the character of the kids in your program makes or breaks you.

Hudygrad, as far as "taking shots" is concerned, I don't think UD fans were happy about the Plummer car wreck incident, but it was openly discussed here. Everything I have seen in this thread so far is easily substantiated. These are real issues, and nothing here refers to incidents after graduation. In fact, many of these incidents occured before these players were recruited by X! I also hardly believe Lavender's actions did anything to elevate or even maintain the reputation of the X program. If a UD player did the same thing, and you claimed he increased the reputation of UD, you would be laughed off the site

As far as this incident, it appeared pretty reprehensible on the surface, but once the story came out, most sided with the young man.

Apparently, his coach, Oliver Antigua, grabbed Parrom by the throat or some other part of his body, wouldn't let go of Parrom, and continued to shake him. Then Parrom hit him. Parrom never had a history of any such violence, but the coach did. No charges were ever filed against the young man, and his prep career has continued. If this is an indication of severe character issues, coaches will tend to back off in the recruiting process. As it turns out, the attention Parrom has garnered has not subsided.

He certainly made a mistake, but there's nothing wrong with the young man's character.

hUDygrad · #55 08-17-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

I know there would be questions here if we had similar arrests, jailings, fines, court appearances, recruitment of troubled players, recommendations for expulsion by student-professor commitees, etc. It just is not a good thing for a program.

And I think the lack of fan concern over these issues down at X is one of the new differences between UD and X.

Bob, x has always taken the appropriate steps when events occur. Why would you think they should be concerned? you are starting to sound like those guys on the A10 board that go out of their way to sully x's reputation when we should be more worried about our own reputation or lack there of. I would rather worry about getting to the Sweet 16 than worry about one of our players getting in trouble.

SideshowBob · #56 08-17-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

Bob, x has always taken the appropriate steps when events occur. Why would you think they should be concerned? you are starting to sound like those guys on the A10 board that go out of their way to sully x's reputation when we should be more worried about our own reputation or lack there of. I would rather worry about getting to the Sweet 16 than worry about one of our players getting in trouble.

You sound very familiar as well. But under a very different persona. I think it is safe to assume that you are no stranger to the A10 board under very different circumstances.

XUFAN02 · #57 08-17-2008, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

You scenario would go completely against the style of play Gregory has always preferred. Everyone that earns them in practice will get minutes. Only Wright and Marcus Johnson are locked into their spots, and the rest will be filled using different combinations. Wright pitying fools will not cost anyone else minutes. There is no set depth chart with BG. One could argue Huelsman has a solid spot, but I won't. Decent depth in the paint and a plethora of different combos and tempos to play, whereas Kurt has some limitations.

Look at it this way:

Searcy and Benson will be capable of playing the 4 or 5 spots.
Wright can play the 3 or 4
MJ the 2 or 3
Chris Johnson the 2 or 3, and will be able to cover at the 4 spot as he fills out physically
Fabreeze will play the 3 or 4, and eventually the 5 as he gets stronger over time
Lowry can play the 1 or 2 if he shoots as advertised
Mickey Perry can play the 2 or 3
Paul Williams can play the 2 or 3, possibly 1 for short stints.
Steven Thomas can play the 1, and fill in at the 2.

Really, only Kurt, London, and Charles Little are set at one position. That leaves a lot of combos for everyone to get minutes. Anyone that has ever watched a BG team knows that all will see minutes and there will be many, many different combos of players.

No one will have their minutes taken by a freshmen that has never suited up. Don't kid yourself, either directly or indirectly, Miller made it clear to Graves that his would be. I don't pass judgment because I think Miller has to do what he feels is best for the program.

So what you are saying is that BG is a master of juggling line-ups for 13 scholarship players, while Miller has a predetermined set line-up prior to the first day of practice? And because he has a set line-up he told Graves to go elsewhere, you are serious?! Okay, if that is the case answer me this.

1) Why did Miller wait until August 14th to 'directly/indirectly' make it clear to Graves, when he could have done it after the season?

2) Why would Miller run out a two year player when he has 4 freshman guards, all unproven, and a guard transfer who is not eligible this season?

The only players with a proven track record are Brown, Love, Anderson, and BJ Raymond, why would Miller 'directly/indirectly' run off a player who knows the system this late into the summer?

Adam, usually you make some very good posts on the Xavier boards, A-10 boards, but you are missing the boat on Graves. Miller preaches balance and defense, and played 10 deep up until the NCAA tournament. If you think by Miller recruiting over the head of his committed guards, Dante/Graves, as an indirect way you are mistaken. Great programs add as much talent to their rosters as they possibly can and let the players decide it on the court. Graves made his own decision that he didn't want to compete for role on this team in his junior year, so he asked for his release.

hUDygrad · #58 08-17-2008, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by SideshowBob

You sound very familiar as well. But under a very different persona. I think it is safe to assume that you are no stranger to the A10 board under very different circumstances.

You're still masquerading over there aren't you?

The irony of J. Berry is just too juicy. I guess it took 2 incidents for BG to see the light.

SideshowBob · #59 08-17-2008, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

i have never posted over there. Seems everything dissolves into a pi$$ing match and I'd rather stay over here and discuss bball.

I really think you should check it out. So many posters there share your views.

Gazoo · #60 08-18-2008, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by anthonycharles

If you do not give the effort on the defensive side of the ball, Brian Gregory will not give you any pt. So, in essence, he wouldn't contribute at all at UD (or X for that matter) if you aren't willing to give the effort on defense.

James Binnie.

And again, I think we're throwing all of this guy under the bus--including his defense.

It's easy to sit here and type "he played no defense" but there are very few people at a program like _avier who wake up in the morning and say "I have decided that I've played my last effective minute of defense in my college career. Gimme the ball coach, I'm gonna shoot it!"

Misplaced priorities, miscommunication with the coaches, frustration, attention to detail. . . it's really not impossible to imagine this guy playing D someday.

Muskie Mike · #61 08-18-2008, 02:34 PM

Nothing like a lil Xavier talk to get this board going. Graves never really got going during his time at X. For all the talk about his being the best scorer in practice, it just didn't carry over to game time. I'm sure he will land on his feet somewhere, and I hope he does well. Hope everyone is having a wonderful summer.

Source · #62 08-18-2008, 07:17 PM

As an alum I'm not proud of what Drew did after the season. It was downright stupid and irresponsible. But he's 23 and made his own decision. As for CJA I understand he is on a short leash or no tolerance policy. Yes he had some issues off the court at MU that he could not duplicate here at X.
As for Mick at UC he is recruiting "risky" kids as well. He wont tolerate any off court mishaps. He has kicked off any trouble makers or academic problems. He is not a soft spoken little 5-7 kid. He has a mean streak and is very intelligent. They just have not gotten the press like UC used to receive. Andy Kennedy left that program for dead, literally. He had no chance for the UC job believe me. The Big East, city of Cincinnati, and Mick sell recruits. Mick is widely known in the NBA ranks. He can make kids dream big by matching their skill level to what the NBA is looking for. 9-10 recruits tell coaches they think they have what it takes to make the League. If Mick ever loses his job at UC, he'll be on an NBA bench as an assistant in a heartbeat. He's turning UC around quickly. X has their hands full at UC. PG Cashmere Wright, SG Deonte Vaughn, and wing Alvin Mitchell will be a deadly trio out top. 6-7 forward Mike Williams (transfer from Oklahoma) and 6-9 Yancy Gates down low are a load. 6-11 Biggie McClain will block shots.
Times have changed. Todays society is based upon what have you done today? Yes X has had some immature players who like to "party" like we all do. But there are more X players who are doing it right and excelling. X is getting to the point where they are recruiting more than the eastern 1/4th of the nation and can pick and choose kids who may/may not be a "risk."

TerryK_67 · #63 08-18-2008, 07:37 PM

Again - I have to check where I logged on to? I thought I was on the A10 board! This whole thread is boring and belongs over there!
Can it and get back to UD basketball!

XUFAN02 · #64 08-19-2008, 12:38 PM

At least on this board there is no uddunk, Stealthbomber, and or Dupree Lucas. Most Dayton fans on this board are rational human beings. You go over to the A-10 board and its the Xavier Haters Ball.

XFactor · #65 08-19-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by AdamtheFlyer

You scenario would go completely against the style of play Gregory has always preferred. Everyone that earns them in practice will get minutes. Only Wright and Marcus Johnson are locked into their spots, and the rest will be filled using different combinations. Wright pitying fools will not cost anyone else minutes. There is no set depth chart with BG. One could argue Huelsman has a solid spot, but I won't. Decent depth in the paint and a plethora of different combos and tempos to play, whereas Kurt has some limitations.

Look at it this way:

Searcy and Benson will be capable of playing the 4 or 5 spots.
Wright can play the 3 or 4
MJ the 2 or 3
Chris Johnson the 2 or 3, and will be able to cover at the 4 spot as he fills out physically
Fabreeze will play the 3 or 4, and eventually the 5 as he gets stronger over time
Lowry can play the 1 or 2 if he shoots as advertised
Mickey Perry can play the 2 or 3
Paul Williams can play the 2 or 3, possibly 1 for short stints.
Steven Thomas can play the 1, and fill in at the 2.

Really, only Kurt, London, and Charles Little are set at one position. That leaves a lot of combos for everyone to get minutes. Anyone that has ever watched a BG team knows that all will see minutes and there will be many, many different combos of players.

No one will have their minutes taken by a freshmen that has never suited up. Don't kid yourself, either directly or indirectly, Miller made it clear to Graves that his would be. I don't pass judgment because I think Miller has to do what he feels is best for the program.

I know I'm a Xavier fan, but Chris Johnson will never play the 4 spot. Right now, he's about 6'5 180 lbs. He is a slasher with a nice outside shot. He would have to gain about 50 pounds to be able to play at the power forward position and that isn't going to happen during his time at UD.

Mickey Perry is 6'2 at best and you think he can play the 3 spot. He is a shooting guard, plain and simple.

Luke F...whatever his name is lucky to weigh 200 pounds. He will be a stand around the perimeter type guy for a couple years, maybe his whole career. Don't expect him to mix it up inside anytime soon. You got Huelsman, Searcy, and Benson for that. Luke is a small forward who might be able to play power forward if he too gains about 30 or 40 pounds.

UDBrian · #66 08-19-2008, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by XFactor

I know I'm a Xavier fan, but Chris Johnson will never play the 4 spot. Right now, he's about 6'5 180 lbs. He is a slasher with a nice outside shot. He would have to gain about 50 pounds to be able to play at the power forward position and that isn't going to happen during his time at UD.

Mickey Perry is 6'2 at best and you think he can play the 3 spot. He is a shooting guard, plain and simple.

Luke F...whatever his name is lucky to weigh 200 pounds. He will be a stand around the perimeter type guy for a couple years, maybe his whole career. Don't expect him to mix it up inside anytime soon. You got Huelsman, Searcy, and Benson for that. Luke is a small forward who might be able to play power forward if he too gains about 30 or 40 pounds.

I pretty much agree. Ack is it possible to agree with a Xavier person? (I did agree with Tami when she was a vball coach though) Perry might be able to play the '3' for short periods but against a good '3' with some post moves he would be out of the game pretty quick, imagine him trying to guard Chris Wright in the post. If Luke puts some muscle on he could become a Duncan type player but some players really can't add muscle. Chris Johnson is a '3' and he could be a very good one.

SideshowBob · #67 08-19-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by XFactor

I know I'm a Xavier fan, but Chris Johnson will never play the 4 spot. Right now, he's about 6'5 180 lbs. He is a slasher with a nice outside shot. He would have to gain about 50 pounds to be able to play at the power forward position and that isn't going to happen during his time at UD.

Mickey Perry is 6'2 at best and you think he can play the 3 spot. He is a shooting guard, plain and simple.

Luke F...whatever his name is lucky to weigh 200 pounds. He will be a stand around the perimeter type guy for a couple years, maybe his whole career. Don't expect him to mix it up inside anytime soon. You got Huelsman, Searcy, and Benson for that. Luke is a small forward who might be able to play power forward if he too gains about 30 or 40 pounds.

I tend to agree with what you say about those players, but I think we get too caught up in 1,2,3,4,5 as rigidly defined positions. Some coaches will go with 3 guards for stretches. So Perry at the 3 is not totally out of the question.

Gazoo · #68 08-20-2008, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by XFactor

I know I'm a Xavier fan, but Chris Johnson will never play the 4 spot. Right now, he's about 6'5 180 lbs. He is a slasher with a nice outside shot. He would have to gain about 50 pounds to be able to play at the power forward position and that isn't going to happen during his time at UD.

Mickey Perry is 6'2 at best and you think he can play the 3 spot. He is a shooting guard, plain and simple.

Luke F...whatever his name is lucky to weigh 200 pounds. He will be a stand around the perimeter type guy for a couple years, maybe his whole career. Don't expect him to mix it up inside anytime soon. You got Huelsman, Searcy, and Benson for that. Luke is a small forward who might be able to play power forward if he too gains about 30 or 40 pounds.

Perry leaps very quickly and high off of 2 feet. He's of course not a natural 3 but could do so if necessary.

Luke putting on 30 pounds--you say it like it's unlikely. We've seen freshmen almost every year add 15 pounds where required and 30 by the sophomore season. If it's what's needed the UD strength coach will make it happen. . . again.

rollo · #69 08-20-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

We've seen freshmen almost every year add 15 pounds where required and 30 by the sophomore season.

When did this topic change to include freshman girls?

xubrew · #70 08-21-2008, 01:16 AM

Anderson was actually dismissed from Manhattan, along with missing half of his sophomore season to academic ineligibility

A First Team All-MAAC preseason pick heading into last season, Anderson appeared in just 16 games before being shelved due to academic difficulties.
While in the lineup, the 6-6 sophomore averaged 18.8 points and 9.4 rebounds, both team highs.

academics were the reason he was suspended, but i don't think he ineligible. if he was ineligible by the ncaa's standards, he wouldn't have played in as many as sixteen games unless they played a really goofy schedule that year. the grades and certifications come out long before the sixteenth game. he also wouldn't have been able to transfer without losing a year of eligibility until he got his grades back up to ncaa standards.

nbflyer · #71 08-28-2008, 12:02 PM

Graves transfers to BGSU.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...TS03/808280408

jack72 · #72 08-28-2008, 12:19 PM

I was just about to write that he was not on the Northern Kentucky roster. Northern does have a kid who transfered from St Louis by the name of Dustin Maguire (6'5"). I do not remember him on the Bilekins last year.

Source · #73 08-29-2008, 08:22 PM

Yeah..he's going to play with former Withrow Coach George Jackson and Withrow standout Louis Orr.

FlyerYouBetcha · #74 08-30-2008, 08:30 AM

Louis Orr played for Withrow on the same team with LaSalle Thompson in the late '70s. Too bad one was a freshman and the other a senior at that time, or the team would have been state champions. As it was, they weren't that good. I remember them losing to Walnut Hills.

A revealing quote by Graves in the Toledo Blade:

"Graves also had scholarship offers from the University of Detroit and the University of Toledo. Asked to describe his game, Graves said fans can expect "a great shooter with leadership skills that can bring in some action.""

Sounds like Graves thinks he's a GREAT shooter. Perhaps that was his problem at _avier. He thought too much.