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07-03-2013, 05:53 PM
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Brad Stevens to the Celtics
Reports are Brad Stevens is leaving Butler to coach the Celtics. Doesn't directly impact UD other than recruiting, but this will have an impact on UD's possible future conference affiliation.
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07-03-2013, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action
Reports are Brad Stevens is leaving Butler to coach the Celtics. Doesn't directly impact UD other than recruiting, but this will have an impact on UD's possible future affiliation.
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GMTA. Sorry to post the same thing at the same time Ready!
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07-03-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77
GMTA. Sorry to post the same thing at the same time Ready!
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Not a problem as I am shocked the the Celtics took Stevens and apparently were looking at another college coach as well.
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07-03-2013, 06:08 PM
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If Butler struggles initially in the new league (which I think they will), this may be his best chance to move up if that's his goal
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07-03-2013, 06:10 PM
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Commander in Chief
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Butler could suddenly suck again.
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07-03-2013, 06:19 PM
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butler will have a ton of solid coaches that will line up for the gig i'd imagine. dare i say archie? lol
but losing stevens hurts no matter what...they still might be alright...but wow. can't be happy if you're a butler fan right now.
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07-03-2013, 06:38 PM
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now that is a sucker punch. Butler is nothing special without him.
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07-03-2013, 06:40 PM
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My guess is that whoever follows him doesn't last four years.
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07-03-2013, 07:13 PM
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Wow. Huge loss for Butler.
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07-03-2013, 07:56 PM
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Butler performance could regress to top half Horizon status. Stevens was everything to that program. Stevens was to Butler what Harbaugh was to USD football. The next coach will have quite a success story to follow. One thing they could capitalize on is the NBE recruiting power. But they are going to have to hit some homeruns in recruiting quickly.
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07-03-2013, 08:21 PM
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Man, and we thought losing Meacham in the middle of the off season was tough. It will be interesting to see how Butler handles it.
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07-03-2013, 09:38 PM
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in the last 25 years who are the coaches to guide a non bcs school to the national championship game?
Last edited by Sea Bass; 07-03-2013 at 10:06 PM..
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07-03-2013, 09:53 PM
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Stevens and Calipari (assume Memphis qulaifies as nonBCS). But if going with two am hissing not, so Majerus at Utah.
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07-03-2013, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
Stevens and Calipari (assume Memphis qulaifies as nonBCS). But if going with two am hissing not, so Majerus at Utah.
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Point being anyway is that the coaches who have done it are a rare breed and obviously great coaches who are few and far between. BTW, Tark would qualify (forgot him ) and don't believe that one was ever vacated. either way Cal and Tark coached them there.
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07-03-2013, 10:03 PM
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07-03-2013, 10:17 PM
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whatever Butler does they have to do it quickly, otherwise you could lose 2013 recruits and this July is an important month for 2014. IMO has to be done in less than a week.
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07-03-2013, 10:21 PM
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I'm not driving, so I want some of what he's smoking.
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07-03-2013, 10:22 PM
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Wouldn't that be a kick to the groin. I hope Archie sees no advantage to that move. Butler is a tiny school, but the new BE money may do us in.
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07-03-2013, 10:23 PM
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I would argue that even if Arch thinks he is "Stevens good", then he has better facilities and has a great start on the process and players that he thinks will get him a Final Four, right here at Dayton. Butler is the house that Brad built. Arch would have to reboot a few years at Butler to get his coaches, players, and system started. That is a painful process.
As far as $$, it would really p*ss me off if Butler could offer more salary than UD.
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07-03-2013, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I would argue that even if Arch thinks he is "Stevens good", then he has better facilities and has a great start on the process and players that he thinks will get him a Final Four, right here at Dayton. Butler is the house that Brad built.
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following a legendary coach and IMO Stevens is that, always results in failure. IMO UD is positioned for success just as much as Butler is minus Stevens. Its all about getting the right coach.
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07-03-2013, 10:26 PM
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I like Archie but he's a career .500 in conference play, has never won a post season game, and has no real connection to Butler - seems like that would be three strikes
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07-03-2013, 10:31 PM
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Butler has basically hired from within. However, the logical choice just left (Graves) so Butler is left in a bad spot. IMO, head coaches with integrity aren't looking to move this late (other than the schnozz) because it puts the school left behind in a terrible spot.
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07-03-2013, 10:32 PM
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Could Bobby Knight be brought out of retirement???
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07-03-2013, 10:38 PM
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the most common occurrence when a coaching exits at this time of year is an interim coach steps in (Majerus, Huggy Bear, RMK). Otherwise there is a lack of continuity in everything. Not sure if there is an internal candidate. I read where Graves said he is not a candidate because it would be too disruptive to people that are counting on him.
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07-03-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Could Bobby Knight be brought out of retirement???
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Wouldn't he love that? Nothing like getting a chance to steal publicity and stick it to IU.
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07-03-2013, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
whatever Butler does they have to do it quickly, otherwise you could lose 2013 recruits and this July is an important month for 2014. IMO has to be done in less than a week.
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Khyle Marshall said that AD Barry Collier told the players "Don’t be surprised if we get a new guy this Friday."
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07-03-2013, 11:18 PM
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I am very surprised by this, although I understand the money was significant.
Perhaps I am naive, but based on some accounts on the Butler board, this seems to be somewhat unseemly in a few respects.
Per reports, he was contacted by the Celtics about 1 week ago, just before the NBA draft. There were discussions over the phone, and the Celtic brass (including Danny Ainge) flew to Indianapolis Wednesday morning for their first face to face meeting. At that time an agreement was reached.
At no time did Stevens advise his boss that he was looking. Butler only found out about it when Stevens talked to them after his Celtic meeting this morning. I can only imagine their surprise!
During this past few days he was the face of Butler University as they splashed the big transition news about the move to the NBE - one of the great days in BU history. All the while, he is talking to the Celtics about being their new head coach. What did he see the last few days when he got up in the morning and looked in the mirror? Two-faced seems a bit mild as a description.
IMHOP, just another confirmation that honor and integrity are pretty scarce in college athletics.
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07-03-2013, 11:46 PM
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Can't really fault Stevens for tripling his salary and taking an NBA job. The timing sucks but it is what it is. Should he have told them he talked to the Celtics a week ago? Maybe but it likely wouldn't caused Butler to do anything differently than they have done over the last week.
Butler is losing the best coach they will ever have and the July timing is a bummer. Seems to me the Collier already has a plan in place.
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07-04-2013, 12:49 AM
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Butler finished 5th in the A-10 last year. Stevens had a good recruiting class coming in. But I have read conjecture that he lost his enthusiasm for the recruiting grind.
Maybe he looked in the mirror and saw a long hard row to hoe: no Rotnie Clark flying in like Mighty Mouse to save the day with a barrage of late threes, finishing middle of the pack in the new conference, nail biting time on Selection Sunday, followed by a bad seed and more pressure to win and get back to the final four, unrealistic expectations from alumni and fans and administration........
OR...take 22 Mil and pack for Boston.
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07-04-2013, 02:14 AM
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He's a college coaching legend. Check that off the list.
If he can pull of an NBA coaching career for the next 20 years, he'll be immortalized on two levels. Plus a pay raise.
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07-04-2013, 07:46 AM
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The Celtics lost Pierce and Garnett...and are shopping Rondo...they'll be lucky to win 20 games next season. Other than money, there's no attraction being the Celtics head coach in '13-14.
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07-04-2013, 08:44 AM
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1. The article (and other articles) refers to Brandon Miller, assistant at Butler, not Archie.
2. I understand people not wanting to lose a good coach and saying the timing is all wrong, but you have to strike when the iron is hot. The Celtics job just opened up, nothing Stevens could do about that. Also, is there really anybody here that would turn down a BIG promotion for themselves if timing in their current job wasn't right. probably not...
3. Stevens will be fired as an NBA coach eventually regardless of how good or bad the Celtics play. All NBA coaches do, even the greats (except maybe Phil Jackson who fell into a few of the greatest teams ever). With that mindset, you might as well take the money, get the experience, and build upon your name. Worked for Pitino and Cal just fine.
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07-04-2013, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The Celtics lost Pierce and Garnett...and are shopping Rondo...they'll be lucky to win 20 games next season. Other than money, there's no attraction being the Celtics head coach in '13-14.
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But...he is more than likely going to have a chance to rebuild is way for a year. What are the expectations for next year? I don't see how a team that is expected to do bad will fire a rookie coach with bad results. I think this is an excellent opportunity for Stevens and a way to build the team his way. Now lets hope that this can be a plus for CW and get him on the Boston roster.
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07-04-2013, 09:09 AM
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Man, this puts Butler in a tough position. At least they have an AD, Barry Collier who is very well known and respected in the coaching fraternity. That could mean everything in trying to lure another top flight coach there.
Worst case scenario would be that he tries to get back at the Celtics by hiring a former Celtic coach -Jim O'Brien. Hey a.) the guys available right now b.) he's a great X's and O's guy c.) he's a great "family man" and d.) he would travel up to 100 miles from campus in search of recruits. What could go wrong??
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07-04-2013, 09:38 AM
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Taking off the Red - Blue glasses for a moment:
1.) Butler will be just fine - not all programs suffer for years with a coaching change
2.) AM is not going anywhere - not because he will see UD as an equal opportunity but because he has not earned the right to be considered
3.) This does not help UD in any way nor is it a good thing for UD and does not put UD even or above Butler
4.) Advancing in your career is not a lack of loyalty or integrity - Stevens could not control the timing of this
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07-04-2013, 10:06 AM
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Taking an nba job is not disloyal in the same way that moving to another college job would be. He is going to one of the most storied franchises in basketball. I believe the C's have five first round picks in the next two years.
Butler basketball will suffer. I sincerely doubt that they can bring another coach in who can immediately win and continue to win. Simply making the tournament or even 2nd round will pale in comparison to what stevens did.
But, Xavier made a great hire of Miller when Matta left so it can be done.
I am sure Archie and company are looking at the Butler recruits and incoming players unless they have already enrolled. It might be tough to leave if you have already started taking summer classes. I wonder if Butler would release their incoming players from their loi
When I think of a Stevens player I think of a cerebral basketball player, not freakish athletes so I doubt Chris Wright would be on his radar although it would be great to see Chris in geen
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07-04-2013, 10:47 AM
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My condolences to Butler on losing such a fine, upstanding young coach...replacing him will not be easy. On the other hand, congratulations to Coach Stevens...being part of the Celtics franchise is not something one could easily turn down. While, given his demeanor and BB savvy, he should be able to succeed at Boston, if things don't work out for him at that level (ala Rick Pitino), he will always be able to get a college coaching gig at a very high profile program.
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07-04-2013, 10:49 AM
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I understand the complaints about lack of honor/loyalty, but now is when the NBA coaching carousel is running, so that's just the way things are.
Cleveland, the Zags blog article did mention Archie, although it looks like the article has now been edited to remove the reference to Archie. I'd be very surprised, although not shocked, if Archie were to leave for Butler. Crazier things have happened.
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07-04-2013, 12:10 PM
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Yes you can.....
Originally Posted by Sea Bass
Can't really fault Stevens for tripling his salary and taking an NBA job.
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Like money is everything?
Stevens earned enough to live like a king in Indiana.....a great house, no doubt,...job security, big step up in level of conference...happy wife and kids.
For money he moves to Boston where the same house will cost him $2-3 million, major change for previously happy family...absolutely no job security....with two-to-three times as many games his wife and kids will rarely see him....and those NBA prima donnas who are nearly his age will eat him alive.
I predict he'll come to realize that he made a huge mistake.
Drive, ambition, money over common sense. What a jerk!
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07-04-2013, 12:10 PM
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Archie to Butler? I think it's crazy talk, but you never know.
Since I love useless speculation, and we are in the middle of the summer, what would UD do if it happened? Would they promote an assistant? If so would they make it permanent or would they slap the interim tag on him? Would they consider bringing back Donoher for a season while they searched for a replacement? Let the rumor mill start grinding.
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07-04-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gem
Archie to Butler? I think it's crazy talk, but you never know.
Since I love useless speculation, and we are in the middle of the summer, what would UD do if it happened? Would they promote an assistant? If so would they make it permanent or would they slap the interim tag on him? Would they consider bringing back Donoher for a season while they searched for a replacement? Let the rumor mill start grinding.
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What if Archie left UD and all of our freshmen left as well? Where would our program be? Things would be really, really bad if Archie left right now.
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07-04-2013, 12:30 PM
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UAC, you're assuming money is the motivating factor in Coach Stevens move to the NBA and that may simply not be the case. The Celtics' is one of the most storied organizations in all of sports, let alone basketball, and the lure of being on the biggest stage in BB, coaching one of the most famous teams in the game, was probably the driving force behind his decision. The man has turned down numerous opportunities to go to bigger, more glamorous college programs (probably much more financially rewarding than Butler could hope to match), so I highly doubt his decision was all about the dough. IMHO, we should all be more circumspect before ascribing motives to other people's actions.
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07-04-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
UAC, you're assuming money is the motivating factor in Coach Stevens move to the NBA and that may simply not be the case. The Celtics' is one of the most storied organizations in all of sports, let alone basketball, and the lure of being on the biggest stage in BB, coaching one of the most famous teams in the game, was probably the driving force behind his decision. The man has turned down numerous opportunities to go to bigger, more glamorous college programs (probably much more financially rewarding than Butler could hope to match), so I highly doubt his decision was all about the dough. IMHO, we should all be more circumspect before ascribing motives to other people's actions.
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I was thinking the same thing when I heard the news. There is probably only one job in the NBA that could top this(LAL). I don't know how one could turn this down. I mean yes, some stay for a long time at a position, but to be able to coach a storied franchise and have a year to rebuild, this is a dream situation.
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07-04-2013, 01:04 PM
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Pitino had more authority than Stevens will have. Pitino made horible free agent signings because he was impatient to win. I don't think those issues will be a problem for stevens with danny ainge there. Here is an article from the boston paper saying it is a great signing.
http://www.boston.com/blogs/sports/c...d_stevens.html
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07-04-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports
What if Archie left UD and all of our freshmen left as well? Where would our program be? Things would be really, really bad if Archie left right now.
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They would be caught in poop storm without a poop umbrella.
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07-04-2013, 01:37 PM
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Can you imagine the Butler fans the first time they saw a truly "defenseless" Bulldog team? They'd get boo'd off the court.
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07-04-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
. . .
3.) This does not help UD in any way nor is it a good thing for UD and does not put UD even or above Butler
. . .
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DePaul, on the other hand, is thrilled!
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07-04-2013, 03:23 PM
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I think Butler's new coach has about the same odds of success as the Celtic's with Steven on board. A ground up rebuild in the NBA is painful and often times has to reboot once again in the process. Try that on a spoiled impatient Boston following.
Also Steven's Zen-like magic approach with his recruits at Butler is going to be tested severely in Boston. Wait 'til he gets a taste of multi-million dollar pouty players who can't be cut or traded without major $$ repercussions. I'm not at all convinced that Steven's skills will translate to a perrenial NBA power in a rebuild mode.
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07-04-2013, 03:50 PM
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Drive, ambition, money,...
Originally Posted by Bat'71
UAC, you're assuming money is the motivating factor in Coach Stevens move to the NBA and that may simply not be the case. The Celtics' is one of the most storied organizations in all of sports, let alone basketball, and the lure of being on the biggest stage in BB, coaching one of the most famous teams in the game, was probably the driving force behind his decision. The man has turned down numerous opportunities to go to bigger, more glamorous college programs (probably much more financially rewarding than Butler could hope to match), so I highly doubt his decision was all about the dough. IMHO, we should all be more circumspect before ascribing motives to other people's actions.
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Bat, my reference to money was in connection to SeaBass' comment about money.
My post lists money third after "drive" and "ambition"...and I could have added "ego". "Storied" organization or not, Stevens had it made at Butler and I'll bet had a happy contented family. He traded that for the "lure", as you out it, of the biggest stage in BB.
I certainly do not hope he fails...I don't know the guy. But, I predict that the Celtics' job is way over his head and that he will live to regret the move. That's all I am saying.
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07-04-2013, 04:07 PM
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As a lifelong Cs fan, I don't always agree with Danny Ainge's moves but I do with this one. Stevens is a tremendous X and O coach. The tricky part will be dealing with the personalities, particularly the many-mooded Rajon Rondo.
The key here is that Danny gave him a 6 year deal, not the normal 2 or 3. That says in no uncertain terms that Brad Stevens is the coach now, thru the upcoming rebuilding years and beyond.
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07-04-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Like money is everything?
Stevens earned enough to live like a king in Indiana.....a great house, no doubt,...job security, big step up in level of conference...happy wife and kids.
For money he moves to Boston where the same house will cost him $2-3 million, major change for previously happy family...absolutely no job security....with two-to-three times as many games his wife and kids will rarely see him....and those NBA prima donnas who are nearly his age will eat him alive.
I predict he'll come to realize that he made a huge mistake.
Drive, ambition, money over common sense. What a jerk!
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Let's not act like Stevens is in danger of not having job if things don't work out in Boston. He's still going to have one of the top college jobs waiting for him. He's 36; his kids aren't in school yet; this is a perfect time for him to be ambitious. He actually might be able to see his wife and kids more now that he doesn't have to be chasing around high school kids trying to get them to play for him. I have no reason to believe this decision is driven by money, so I think it's great decision for him and his family.
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07-04-2013, 05:21 PM
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Stevens might have simply left for the challenge. There is no telling what Butler fans expectations are right now. Maybe Stevens loved being at Butler but didn't think he could live up to the current expectations. After two final game appearances you would think that recruiting would be easy for Butler right now but I don't get the feeling that this is the case.
Can you imagine what we would be expecting if Archie took UD to two final games in a row?
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07-04-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
Can you imagine what we would be expecting if Archie took UD to two final games in a row?
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We would be expecting him to leave on the next jet out... We're Dayton Ohio.
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07-04-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian
Can you imagine what we would be expecting if Archie took UD to two final games in a row?
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I don't think I can imagine or could live through that. Even if my doctor doubled my generic Lipitor and blood pressure medicine I don't believe my heart could handle it.
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07-04-2013, 07:32 PM
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Butler will be the Fordham of the New Big East. They don't belong in that conference and were only invited because they had a hotshot young coach and two lucky runs to the NCAA finals. Now the hotshot coach has moved on to greener pastures and the NCAA final runs are a distant memory.
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07-04-2013, 07:36 PM
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I don't think any college-only coach with no NBA experience can anticipate what he is going to run into with player personalities, greed, selfishness, and ego. Stevens has as much chance as anyone, but it wouldn't shock anybody if it took the whole 6 year contract for Boston to rebuild to more than just a one-n-done playoff team. A respectable
plateau for any team not named Boston, LA, San Antonio, or a handful of others.
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07-04-2013, 10:03 PM
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Look on the bright side
Butler fans can now focus on bulldog football!
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07-04-2013, 10:08 PM
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Brandon Miller and LaVall Jordan are reportedly the two candidates to replace Stevens at Butler, so it looks like Archie is not in the picture. I wonder if they will use the interim tag and see who is interested in the job in March/April.
I bet Brandon Miller gets the job:
"The vacant Butler basketball coaching job will come down to either Brandon Miller or LaVall Jordan, a source with knowledge of the situation has told The Indianapolis Star.
Miller, a Bulldogs assistant coach, interviewed with Butler athletic director Barry Collier on Wednesday, just hours after Collier was told by Brad Stevens that he had accepted the Boston Celtics coaching job.
Jordan, a Michigan assistant, was set to interview today."
http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...-LaVall-Jordan
Last edited by ud2; 07-04-2013 at 10:13 PM..
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07-04-2013, 10:25 PM
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I'm thinking it's LaVall Jordan, but either one of them would be good. I don't have any direct knowledge. I just have a feeling it's gonna be him. If it is, expect Butler's recruiting to not miss a beat. If anything, it will get better.
This is tough for Butler. It's the third time in about ten years they've had their success as a program come to an end because the coach left. We've seen this movie before. When Lickliter left for Iowa, people were certain the party was over. Brad Stevens was such an unkown that in one of their first nationally televised games the announcer actually mistook him for a player in street clothes.
Barry Collier manages that program as well as any athletic director in the country manages their basketball program. He also knows something that most ADs don't know. Winning the press conference isn't what's important. He can spot outstanding coaches before anyone else is really aware of how outstanding they can be. I'm not saying this isn't a setback, but I am saying that I think Butler is fine. They'll continue to be a team that's in the Top 25 far more often than not.
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07-04-2013, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chriscage
Butler fans can now focus on bulldog football!
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and finishing behind the Flyers every season.
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07-05-2013, 12:20 AM
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I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea for BS. Why in the world would you go get your brains beat in . . . in a situation where every game you win is a failure? Remember the reward here is to suck as much as possible to get the draft pick. He will have players on the court older than him, that won't help with the respect factor. Just because you have banners in the rafters doesn't mean this won't suck. If he wanted to leave Butler there are any number of college programs that would have hired him. That is where he will end up in a couple years when he gets fired. Does that help your street cred to get fired? If so he is making a great decision.
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07-05-2013, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea for BS. Why in the world would you go get your brains beat in . . . in a situation where every game you win is a failure? Remember the reward here is to suck as much as possible to get the draft pick. He will have players on the court older than him, that won't help with the respect factor. Just because you have banners in the rafters doesn't mean this won't suck. If he wanted to leave Butler there are any number of college programs that would have hired him. That is where he will end up in a couple years when he gets fired. Does that help your street cred to get fired? If so he is making a great decision.
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He'll make some really good money and when he is let go in a few years (which I also think is inevitable), he'll have plenty of options to return to the college game, some of which will likely be better positions than Butler.
From the point of view of the Celtics, I'm not sure what they're doing here.
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07-05-2013, 12:41 AM
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Stevens will be back in the college game within 4 years. Guaranteed. He will hate the NBA players. Guaranteed.
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07-05-2013, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea for BS. Why in the world would you go get your brains beat in . . . in a situation where every game you win is a failure? Remember the reward here is to suck as much as possible to get the draft pick. He will have players on the court older than him, that won't help with the respect factor. Just because you have banners in the rafters doesn't mean this won't suck. If he wanted to leave Butler there are any number of college programs that would have hired him. That is where he will end up in a couple years when he gets fired. Does that help your street cred to get fired? If so he is making a great decision.
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It depends on what he wants. Financially speaking, he'll make more in three years at Boston than he'd likely make in five years at a major program, and no successful college coach has ever had their coaching career wrecked because they weren't successful in the pros. Getting fired doesn't necessarily help his street cred, but it won't hurt it either. Coaches who have coached in college and then gone to the NBA and sucked never had any trouble getting back into the college game.
I think the players will respect him as much as they'd respect any other coach. They won't respect that yells and screams and feels that asserting his authority is priority number one. That is the exact opposite of Stevens. They'll respect him just fine. In fact I think they'll respect him more than most current college coaches because his style isn't that of a drill sergeant.
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07-05-2013, 01:22 AM
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I think this is the kind of opportunity he has wanted. He has long term commitment from a front office with a franchise with great fan support who both understand that the next couple seasons will be a rebuilding effort. If I were a coach, I would relish the opportunity to build from the ground up rather than trying to finagle through cap intricacies with established stars who could be resistant to a new system. Nothing but the best of luck to a guy who has proven himself beyond a doubt at the college level.
Plus, this puts him in an even higher profile to take over at Duke in 7-10 years when Coach K hangs them up.
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07-05-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05
He'll make some really good money and when he is let go in a few years (which I also think is inevitable), he'll have plenty of options to return to the college game, some of which will likely be better positions than Butler.
From the point of view of the Celtics, I'm not sure what they're doing here.
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He has plenty of options in the college game RIGHT NOW. If Coach K quit tomorrow Stevens would be at the top of the list (no further up or down compared to a few unsuccessful years in the NBA). Sure he could make more money in the NBA but he could also make more money by going to a bigger program in college.
I think the Celtics move makes perfect sense. They're going to suck out loud next year and no real NBA coach will go take that beating. Look up the interview with Paul Silas when he was the Celtics coach and they won about 15 games. Again, BS's job will be to lose, not win, next year. That will come with front page articles in major newspapers, death threats from moronic fans, players not showing up to practice, etc.
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07-05-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
He has plenty of options in the college game RIGHT NOW. If Coach K quit tomorrow Stevens would be at the top of the list (no further up or down compared to a few unsuccessful years in the NBA). Sure he could make more money in the NBA but he could also make more money by going to a bigger program in college.
I think the Celtics move makes perfect sense. They're going to suck out loud next year and no real NBA coach will go take that beating. Look up the interview with Paul Silas when he was the Celtics coach and they won about 15 games. Again, BS's job will be to lose, not win, next year. That will come with front page articles in major newspapers, death threats from moronic fans, players not showing up to practice, etc.
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I don't see Coach K or any of the other major coaches quitting tomorrow. So with this great job being available he took it. And you don't think college coaches or athletes don't get threats from moronic college fans? I can think of two Michigan recruits in the last 2 years have got them from OSU fans. Players also don't show up to college practices as well. Yes, their is more press, but that depends on the town that you are in.
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07-05-2013, 10:02 AM
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Congratulations
to Brad Stevens on becoming the Celtics coach. With a six year contract he will make life-changing money while applying his skills at the highest level of hoops. The core of Butler basketball will be just fine as Barry Collier remains as the brains of the outfit. He will replace Brad with a Butler way coach and the program will continue to March on. Structurally the Butler program is in the right conference at the right time with a very positive outlook. The UD Flyers would love to trade places with the Butler Bulldogs.
Last edited by Alberto Strasse; 07-05-2013 at 10:29 AM..
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07-05-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I'm thinking it's LaVall Jordan, but either one of them would be good. I don't have any direct knowledge. I just have a feeling it's gonna be him. If it is, expect Butler's recruiting to not miss a beat. If anything, it will get better.
This is tough for Butler. It's the third time in about ten years they've had their success as a program come to an end because the coach left. We've seen this movie before. When Lickliter left for Iowa, people were certain the party was over. Brad Stevens was such an unkown that in one of their first nationally televised games the announcer actually mistook him for a player in street clothes.
Barry Collier manages that program as well as any athletic director in the country manages their basketball program. He also knows something that most ADs don't know. Winning the press conference isn't what's important. He can spot outstanding coaches before anyone else is really aware of how outstanding they can be. I'm not saying this isn't a setback, but I am saying that I think Butler is fine. They'll continue to be a team that's in the Top 25 far more often than not.
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Brew, love ya' but I think you've got an extremely optomistic view of this situation. I guess IF Jordan or whomever is the next coach at Butler---is as a good a coach on all levels as Stevens was at Butler (recruiter/in game coach/etc.) you'll be spot on.....and that may occur!
BUT, Brad Stevens is Brad Stevens....If based upon what he's done at Butler wasn't "top 5 college coach kinda' stuff"....., I don't know what it would take. To suggest that Butler won't "miss a beat" seems kinda' optomistic. At least to me...
I know that as an X fan ( with your programs sustained success over the past 20 years including multiple coaching changes) you might have a rather optimistic view of how difficult this process can be----but few programs go through something this substanative with "missing a beat or two" IF, IF, things ever fully recover. Butler was a mid-majow program from the Horizon league non-the less that had played for the national championship in two consecutive years. Look at MOST programs over the past 30+ years when there signature coaches left----typically a couple bumps/bruises IF, IF the program ever fully recovers "what they had". Again, X has been the rarest of the rare....and that "luck/great" decision making may have actually fallen off with the current hire...time will tell.
I know you guys and the rest of the NBE folks want to believe what you posted---I mean that's why some X fans and many others from Marquette/Georgetown didn't think they needed any additions other than the X of old (pre-Mack), Steven's/Butler and the MVC's Creighton...can't tell me this wasn't a substantial dissappointment to FOX and those folks connected to the NBE with a "realistic" perspective of all that it will take to make this work! VCU.....as the next addition---Hmmmm...
Should be an interesting couple of months---and first season for both X, UD and now Butler. I mean Butler actually finished 5th in the A-10 this, there first season in the A-10. Hard to really see just how they'll fare this season. I'm sure there fans/alum's are a bit more concerned than you appear about there prospects going forward----at least the "relative ease" that you appear confident of.... "won't miss a beat" kinda' stuff. I would guess that the G'town,, Nova' and Marquette fans probably feel a little better now than they did about there prospects for finishing at top the NBE in the next couple of years--and that is probably all THOSE folks care about anyway in reality.
Last edited by College B-Ball Fan; 07-05-2013 at 10:32 AM..
Reason: typo
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07-05-2013, 10:42 AM
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My optomism is more in line with Barry Collier, and the fact that every time this happens at Butler they end up being okay. When they hired a guy that didn't even play college basketball and that almost no one had ever heard of after Lickliter left, everyone was sure Butler was done. That hire turned out alright. I guess I'm at a point to where I'm now convinced that Butler is good at hiring basketball coaches.
LaVall Jordan was on the 06-07 staff along with Brad Stevens, and played a roll in recruiting. LaVall Jordan has been an essential part in Michigan's recruiting, probably the most essential. Michigan and Butler both not only recruit talent, but develop it toward a certain system. It's been mentioned that Butler will no longer be able to turn "three star players" into stars. I don't think their recruiting will waiver at all if LaVall jordan gets the job. It may actually improve.
I'm not saying it's not a setback, but I am saying that I still expect Butler to be a top 25 program. Every time a coach leaves an established program that's not in a major conference, the consensus seems to be they're done. Even if that same program has gone through multiple coaching changes and continued to be successful, people are sure they're done. I'm to a point to where I'm sure Butler isn't done. How can I not be?? They're three for three when faced with this situation.
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07-05-2013, 10:43 AM
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He's gonna get eaten alive.
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07-05-2013, 10:44 AM
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doesn't matter who they pick the next coach won't be as good as Stevens which means there is going to be regression over time. Pass the popcorn.
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07-05-2013, 12:24 PM
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Great quote from The Boston Globe on Stevens:
"An NBA source said Stevens’ personality may make him a good candidate to succeed where previous NCAA coaches failed in the pros.
“He’s the anti-[John] Calipari, the anti-[Rick] Pitino. Those guys, they think it’s about them,” the source said. “He’s going to learn that it’s about the players and that’s going to help."
Linky goodness:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb...ZwJ/story.html
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07-05-2013, 12:44 PM
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Here is an assessment of the changes Butler has undergone, and how the general consensus/main stream media reacted to it.
06-07 - Butler begins the season predicted to finish 6th in the Horizon League. They make the Sweet Sixteen after being in the rankings all year and come very close to beating Florida, who was in the process of winning their second straight title.
Lickliter leaves for Iowa. People say Butler is done. They end up hiring someone no one hsa ever heard of to the point to where he was mistaken as a player in streetclothes early on.
07-08 - Butler has low expectations, but has another big year under first year coach Brad Stevens. They finish in the rankings, make the NCAAs, and lose in overtime to Tennessee in the round of 32. The general consensus is that the first year coach did it with Lickliter's players, and now that they're gone Butler is done.
08-09 - Butler is again picked to finish in the middle of the HL after the loss of Lickliter's players. Again, they play their way into the rankings, finish first in the conference and make the NCAA Tournament.
09-10 - Butler returns pretty much everone, and people are finally catching on that perhaps they're not done after all. It took three years for people to realize it, but they began in the top 25, stayed there all year, and ended up as national runner ups.
10-11 - Butler has high expecations but struggles during the year. Throughout the entire year, whenever Butler is playing, references are made how they had one great run but have not been able to sustain that success. Most people forget that they weren't even being picked to make the NCAAs at the beginning of March. They win the HL, make hte NCAAs, and are once again the national runner up.
11-12 - Butler is not expected to be good, and does even worse than their expectations. People again think they're done
12-13 - Butler begins the season unranked. Everyone is saying they'll sink in the Atlantic Ten, especially after the poor previous season they had. They ended up playing their way into the rankings, making the NCAAs, and losing in the round of 32
Summer 2013 - Stevens leaves. The general consensus once again is that Butler is done. The most recent death blow in a long line of death blows that were not death blows.
Okay, when I look at that, I see that the frequent general consensus is that Butler is always done, and every time it's wrong. They were done when Collier left. They were done when Matta left and won with Collier's players. They were done when Lickliter left. They were done several times under the Steven's regime.
Do I think they'll make the title game in back to back years anytime soon?? No.
Do I think they're done?? No. I think they'll remain a top 25 caliber program and be in the rankings more often than not. The same people that are saying Stevens was Butler are the same ones that were saying he would never do well. I was with the consensus before, and like the consensus I was wrong. I'm not with them this time. Maybe the consensus will be right this time, but I doubt it. I don't think Butler will disappear.
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07-05-2013, 01:09 PM
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the biggest issue Butler is going to have is that they no longer have an easy path to the NCAA tourney (Horizon league). They will not be the big fish anymore instead they are going to be a bubble team with much lower odds of winning the conference tourney.
Butler was one Hail Mary from missing the NCAA tourney last year.
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07-05-2013, 01:21 PM
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From the providence paper - small part of a larger article on the hire
"Here’s a question for Val Ackerman, the new commissioner of the Big East. No, actually, it’s for the Big East presidents: if Brad Stevens was the Celtics coach in March, would the Bulldogs still be on the list of three invitees into your new league? Maybe Saint Louis or Dayton would’ve gotten that call instead.
The theory that Butler is a “national program” because of all the winning under Stevens has some merit but it’s also eerily familiar to another situation where an upstart school became a national power, made a Final Four and proclaimed itself a national power. Then the coach cashes out with a move to the NBA. It happened in 1996 when John Calipari jumped to the New Jersey Nets. His school, the University of Massachusetts, hasn’t played in the NCAA Tournament in the last 15 seasons."
http://www.providencejournal.com/spo...ple-effect.ece
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07-05-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
Congratulations to Brad Stevens on becoming the Celtics coach. With a six year contract he will make life-changing money while applying his skills at the highest level of hoops.
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As long as these two things happen:
a) Boston wins early, and wins more later.
b) Danny Ainge is still there. He and Stevens are now joined at the hip.
Stevens probably has a buy-out clause.
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07-05-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi
From the providence paper - small part of a larger article on the hire
"Here’s a question for Val Ackerman, the new commissioner of the Big East. No, actually, it’s for the Big East presidents: if Brad Stevens was the Celtics coach in March, would the Bulldogs still be on the list of three invitees into your new league? Maybe Saint Louis or Dayton would’ve gotten that call instead.
The theory that Butler is a “national program” because of all the winning under Stevens has some merit but it’s also eerily familiar to another situation where an upstart school became a national power, made a Final Four and proclaimed itself a national power. Then the coach cashes out with a move to the NBA. It happened in 1996 when John Calipari jumped to the New Jersey Nets. His school, the University of Massachusetts, hasn’t played in the NCAA Tournament in the last 15 seasons."
http://www.providencejournal.com/spo...ple-effect.ece
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But...UMass was later found to have some violations and was never the same level before Cal got there(only previous appearance was 1962). Yes, the made it into the dance in 97 and 98, but you could argue that it had to do with Cal's players.
As for Butler, they have had a history of success dating back to 1997. Ironically before that they had made it to the NCAAs only once, of all years 1962. Since 97 they have made 11 dances(only missing out 6 times.). They have also employed four coaches during that stretch, Collier until 2000. Matta for one season(00-01). Then Lickliter until 06-07, and Stevens from 07-08 until now. I don't see how there is that much alike with the history of Butler and the history of UMass.
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07-05-2013, 03:21 PM
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I think there are various degrees of 'done'. Butler was probably already 'done'. Back-to-back national championship games is the sort of thing you'd never expect to see outside a handful of elite elites... Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC. And that's about it in the modern era. Get that from ANYBODY else and you'd call it overachieving, much less from Butler. I don't think Butler was going back to the national championship game twice in a row, regardless.
But are they going to fall apart and become a bottom-feeder? Not with Stevens there. With Stevens gone, who knows? As xubrew shows, there's reason for optimism. But even being ranked 'more often than not' is a very high bar, and I have my doubts about that. Might be safer to say that they make the NCAA tournament more often than not.
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07-05-2013, 03:21 PM
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a Steven's--less Bull Dog program
Originally Posted by xubrew
Here is an assessment of the changes Butler has undergone, and how the general consensus/main stream media reacted to it.
06-07 - Butler begins the season predicted to finish 6th in the Horizon League. They make the Sweet Sixteen after being in the rankings all year and come very close to beating Florida, who was in the process of winning their second straight title.
Lickliter leaves for Iowa. People say Butler is done. They end up hiring someone no one hsa ever heard of to the point to where he was mistaken as a player in streetclothes early on.
07-08 - Butler has low expectations, but has another big year under first year coach Brad Stevens. They finish in the rankings, make the NCAAs, and lose in overtime to Tennessee in the round of 32. The general consensus is that the first year coach did it with Lickliter's players, and now that they're gone Butler is done.
08-09 - Butler is again picked to finish in the middle of the HL after the loss of Lickliter's players. Again, they play their way into the rankings, finish first in the conference and make the NCAA Tournament.
09-10 - Butler returns pretty much everone, and people are finally catching on that perhaps they're not done after all. It took three years for people to realize it, but they began in the top 25, stayed there all year, and ended up as national runner ups.
10-11 - Butler has high expecations but struggles during the year. Throughout the entire year, whenever Butler is playing, references are made how they had one great run but have not been able to sustain that success. Most people forget that they weren't even being picked to make the NCAAs at the beginning of March. They win the HL, make hte NCAAs, and are once again the national runner up.
11-12 - Butler is not expected to be good, and does even worse than their expectations. People again think they're done
12-13 - Butler begins the season unranked. Everyone is saying they'll sink in the Atlantic Ten, especially after the poor previous season they had. They ended up playing their way into the rankings, making the NCAAs, and losing in the round of 32
Summer 2013 - Stevens leaves. The general consensus once again is that Butler is done. The most recent death blow in a long line of death blows that were not death blows.
Okay, when I look at that, I see that the frequent general consensus is that Butler is always done, and every time it's wrong. They were done when Collier left. They were done when Matta left and won with Collier's players. They were done when Lickliter left. They were done several times under the Steven's regime.
Do I think they'll make the title game in back to back years anytime soon?? No.
Do I think they're done?? No. I think they'll remain a top 25 caliber program and be in the rankings more often than not. The same people that are saying Stevens was Butler are the same ones that were saying he would never do well. I was with the consensus before, and like the consensus I was wrong. I'm not with them this time. Maybe the consensus will be right this time, but I doubt it. I don't think Butler will disappear.
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Brew, honestly I wasn't in any "crowd" regarding Butler's program and don't feel like I'm part of one now---except the "let's be real crowd"! Other than there 2 great, great runs in the tournament and reading about WSU playing them each year (in what was typically Wright State's biggest game each year) I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to them or the horizon league. You sound like you did...which is naturally fine.
What you've posted only leads me to believe all the more what I've previously posted--huge, huge shoes to fill!
Statements under these circumstances (including the information that you've provided above) make your previous statements like "won't miss a beat" & "they'll continue to be in the top 25 far more often than not..." seem like a reach without Steven's at the helm and in light of there brand new conference affiliation (and last years A-10 performance)----to ME at least!. I know NBE fans want to believe this to be true and I can't blame em'.
Time will tell.....
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07-05-2013, 04:43 PM
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You're right. Time will tell. It's not you that I was picking on. It's just the general consensus and the MSM. It seems like writing about how Butler's ride is over is now an annual ritual for them.
I guess I'm at a place where time has already told me something. The timeline above is an example of what time has told me. I could have taken it back even further than that, but you get the point. Perhaps saying they won't miss a beat is overstating it, but I think their program is fine. I do think they'll continue to be in the top 25 more often than not.
How's the saying go?? Fool me 27 times, then shame on me. I'm not going to go so far to say that I think that it is entirely impossible that Butler will decline, but I will say that I'm a long ways away from expecting it. I've expected it before and it hasn't happened. I now expect them to handle things like this very well and continue to be a very strong program.
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07-05-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
You're right. Time will tell. It's not you that I was picking on. It's just the general consensus and the MSM. It seems like writing about how Butler's ride is over is now an annual ritual for them.
I guess I'm at a place where time has already told me something. The timeline above is an example of what time has told me. I could have taken it back even further than that, but you get the point. Perhaps saying they won't miss a beat is overstating it, but I think their program is fine. I do think they'll continue to be in the top 25 more often than not.
How's the saying go?? Fool me 27 times, then shame on me. I'm not going to go so far to say that I think that it is entirely impossible that Butler will decline, but I will say that I'm a long ways away from expecting it. I've expected it before and it hasn't happened. I now expect them to handle things like this very well and continue to be a very strong program.
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The six year college coaching career of Brad Stevens is the best or at least one of the best in the last 25 years of college hoops -- he was coaching at mid-major. Stevens is now considered one of the top 5 college coaches the last 6 years. The chances of Butler hiring another coach of this calibre is almost zero (someone could argue 5% or less). Could they hire another Matta, a top 25 coach, sure. But the chances Butler will have the same success they have had the past 6 years is almost zero. Who really thinks Butler will be in the Final 4 the next 6 years? Under Stevens, they had a legitimate shot.
I will say they will have a top 25 year this year, but after that they will not be in the top 25 more often than not. Lets measure it after the 2013-2014 season week by week. There are almost 80 BCS schools including the Big East and 20 other top mid majors (Gonzaga, Uconn, Cincy, Memphis, Dayton, etc). I do not see Butler being in the top 25% of that top 100 more often than not. They more likely will revert to the mean and be in the top 25 1/3 to 1/4 of the time.
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07-05-2013, 06:21 PM
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i think xubrew is mainly just trying to pump the brakes on the butler is done type talk.
the program took a huge step forward in conferences and don't forget resources.
brew, is simply pointing out that history tells us butlers AD has a history of hiring the right coach.
does this mean its a sure thing butler will still be a national title contender? no, of course not.
butler though, over the past 6 years have elevated their program. yeah they were great with lickliter, matta, etc. but stevens was able to raise the bar, just like we all want for dayton. whether thats with archie or whoever.
butler still has national recognition among recruits, in a better conference than the horizon and probably A-10, and also a nice infuse of cash coming into their programs.
the big elephant in the room though is the uncertainty. as it sits, butler just lost a PREMIERE coach, and currently have to find a replacement. scary to think about, but probably will be just fine.
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07-05-2013, 06:31 PM
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Brad Stevens made a national contender out of 3 star recruits. Butler does not have that great of a following. I'm a skeptic about their stature in NCAA basketball without Stevens. A number of schools have to end up as punching bags in any conference.
It's my best guess that they drop off significantly. It's possible they fall all the way down to X, "missing the NIT" levels.
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07-05-2013, 06:42 PM
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When Dan Monson built Gonzaga, the Zags were going to crash and burn when he left for Minnesota. They ended up just fine.
Of course, Tulsa was supposed to hit the wall when Tubby Smith and Bill Self left and they eventually did.
You never know. In both cases, Butler and Tulsa have good but not great fan bases. Even at their zenith, they were not entirely impressive in their draw.
Its easy to support the bros' when you are cheering on a front-running program all the time. Sit them down at UD Arena for the last 20 years and see if they maintain that same level of enthusiasm. Most fan bases are pretty fickle and fair-weather. A couple 21-13/NIT kind of seasons and the shine/novelty begins to wear off. Sometimes quickly.
There are no guarantees. The salvation for Gonzaga has been they've never really had a down year. Its only been a matter of postseason seeding.
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07-05-2013, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
There are no guarantees. The salvation for Gonzaga has been they've never really had a down year. Its only been a matter of postseason seeding.
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how much do to the fact that they have been a very big fish in a very small pond. Even if they had a down non-con there have still always been a heavy conference favorite.
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07-05-2013, 07:23 PM
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Butler has enjoyed a long line of good coaches, and maybe the next one will be good too, but Stevens was a GREAT coach.
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07-05-2013, 09:29 PM
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I think people who are predicting Butler's demise are basing it on something they don't know. They know Stevens was good. They know he's gone. They don't know anything else, and that's what they're basing their belief that Butler will collapse on.
If you think they're not going to be able to sustain a top 25 program, what is it about LaVall Jordan that makes you think he can't do it?? Do you even know who LaVall Jordan is and what he's done?? Do you think that he was a dissapointment in recruiting the 06-07 and 07-08 teams to Butler?? There is a reason Belein hired him away when he got to Michigan. Do you think that he did not recruit well and/or failed to develop players at Michigan, who was awful prior to his getting there??
Do you think he will not recruit Indiana well?? Is there something about the teams he recruited to Butler and Michigan, and where his recruiting ties are, that makes you think he will not be able to recruit good players to Butler as a head coach??
I know all about Brad Stevens. I know he gone. You don't need to tell me that Brad Stevens was outstanding, and is gone now. So, if you really think they're done, then tell me what it is you don't like about the two candidates. I see nothing to suggest that LaVall Jordan is not more than ready to be a head coach, and that he would be able to go to a program like Butler and sustain them as a top 25 program. If you disagree with that, then explain to me how I am wrong.
Truth be told, I don't know that much about Miller, but I do know about Jordan and I know about Collier. I also know that Collier is ten times more qualified to make the decision than I am, so if he goes with Miller instead of Jordan, then I can only assume that as good as I think Jordan is, then Collier must think Miller is better.
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07-05-2013, 09:49 PM
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Brew I don't think they are going to crash and burn, but I don't think they will remain a top 25 program. Why? Because I don't think they were a top 25 program the last couple of years. I think they were over rated because Stevens was the coach. He's gone, so is the media bias in favor of Stevens.
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Mad Props to IndianaFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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07-05-2013, 10:20 PM
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brew,
i think the obvious answer to why people have doubts, is from dayton's experience with BG. BG was well regarded as a hire from the assistant ranks. did BG do some good things? sure, did he make dayton a consistent top 25 program? not even close.
theres tons of great assistant coaches across the country, and some succeed...and some simply don't.
thats what i mean by the uncertainty.
then again, we could all be thrown for a loop and butler gets crazy and hires howland or something.
who knows.
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07-06-2013, 01:24 AM
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Butler should be ok in the long run. Any good AD in Butlers situation would have plans in place for a coaching departure. I also believe that there is a lot of good young talent out there to fill a coaching vacancy.
I would actually like to focus on how good of a hire this is for the Boston celtics. There has been an interesting change in scouting methods used in the NBA over the last 5 years. Now certain front offices, Celtics included, have put a heavy emphisis on the use of advanced statistics such as PER (player efficiency rating) and WARP (wins above replacement). Brad Stevens has always put a very high value on these metrics and was the first D1 coach to higher a statistics expert as an assistant. What we will find out as Brad Stevens career with Boston unfolds is if baseing a franchise off of analytics can be a success. Sort of the basketball equivalent of Money Ball.
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07-06-2013, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg
Butler has enjoyed a long line of good coaches, and maybe the next one will be good too, but Stevens was a GREAT coach.
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That is very true. Danny Ainge said at the 2011 championship game that the best coach in college basketball was on the floor that night. And he was refering to Stevens, not coach K
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07-06-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I think the players will respect him as much as they'd respect any other coach. They won't respect that yells and screams and feels that asserting his authority is priority number one. That is the exact opposite of Stevens. They'll respect him just fine. In fact I think they'll respect him more than most current college coaches because his style isn't that of a drill sergeant.
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Agree with this paragraph!
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07-06-2013, 01:54 PM
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Just because our program takes an expected nosedive and 5-year rebuilding schedule when we change coaches doesn't mean every other program will, too.
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07-06-2013, 02:07 PM
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If Jordan and Miller are as good as Brew says and one of them is picked as the next coach, I would expect Butler to have successful seasons, but wouldn't expect them to be routinely rated in the top 25.
While Stevens a a good X and O's coach, he also has intangibles that I believe added to his success....he has a calm demeanor, is humble, and doesn't yell at his players. I don't know if it has been luck or Steven's coaching, but I haven't seen selfish and arrogant players on his teams...they play team ball.
I attribute Stevens' success to the above plus his ability to improve his players.
While it's known that Jordan is a great recruiter, it's not known how good he will be as a coach.
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07-06-2013, 03:19 PM
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brandon miller it is..
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07-06-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08
brandon miller it is..
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Hmmm. Wow. Truth be told, I don't know much about him.
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07-06-2013, 03:58 PM
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Instead of elevating our status by hoping everyone else gets worse, may I kindly suggest and politely propose that UD try something innovative...like improve.
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07-06-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Instead of elevating our status by hoping everyone else gets worse, may I kindly suggest and politely propose that UD try something innovative...like improve.
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Agree 100% Not everyone can drop below our current level without the team showing improvement. They need to take care of business on the court one game at a time
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07-06-2013, 06:15 PM
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butler bulldogs
Originally Posted by rollo
Just because our program takes an expected nosedive and 5-year rebuilding schedule when we change coaches doesn't mean every other program will, too.
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Originally Posted by rollo
Instead of elevating our status by hoping everyone else gets worse, may I kindly suggest and politely propose that UD try something innovative...like improve.
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Seriously, sometimes don't know when your kidding and/or serious! Just because the discussion on this thread has centered on how quickly, or IF Butler will return to the form they've enjoyed (i.e. see above post by 'brew 06'---current year) under one of the best college coaches in the country----doesn't mean there is any ill will towards the bulldogs!
I've fiollowed the thread a bit over the past couple of days and "most" of the discussion has centered around how great a coach Steven's was for Butler and also confirmed why Butler was chosen and earned a spot as an NBE expansion team! A spot we are ALL envious of truth be told!
Hardly "bad" stuff in the big picture! If anything, the same old BS talk about either taking pot shots at the Flyers coaching changes (see above--once again NOT sure from lots of past clearly negative posts about UD hoops if you were "serious" this time or not) OR the always present---"all we need to do is get into the NCAA's and advance to the sweet 16 for the next 2-3 years" invariably gets the serious discussion off course for a post or two!
Butler has had an incredible run! They are now 1 year removed from playing Wright State, Valpo, Central Michigan and similar teams "in conference" for 18 games a year! Since there 1 year in the A-10--they clearly had a bit of a culture shock finishing 5th-------and now Stevens is gone and they'll be playing Nova', Georgetown, X, Creighton, etc., etc., most of January---March----I don't think what's been discussed hear is anything different than what's being discussed at Butler and on various other hoops message boards.
Hardly a "hope that everybody gets worse" theme here as a way for our Flyers to improve and get to the NCAA's on a regular basis IMHO!
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