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  #1901  
Old 03-11-2014, 09:59 PM
ScottyExpress ScottyExpress is offline
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I still can't get over Rollo's Walter White avatar. Seems over the top to me, he's not even a chemist. Let alone a genius non conformist drug dealer.

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  #1902  
Old 03-12-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by EmmetStFlyerFan View Post
I still can't get over Rollo's Walter White avatar. Seems over the top to me, he's not even a chemist. Let alone a genius non conformist drug dealer.
True, but I used to be King, and had my own empire, which is close enough.
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  #1903  
Old 03-12-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
With all due respect, Villanova and Xavier have pretty similar academic profiles whereas Georgetown is in a different stratosphere.
Villanova is far superior to Xavier academically.

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  #1904  
Old 03-12-2014, 10:20 AM
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Here's _avier's ACT/GPA stats...basically you need a mid 20's ACT and a 3.5 gpa


Here's Villanova's criteria: Basically you need a 33 ACT and 3.75 gpa.


WTF...here's UD's criteria: Basically you need a 25 ACT and 3.5 pga


Just for fun, here's Notre Dame where you need a 34 ACT and 4.0 gpa.

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  #1905  
Old 03-12-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
If this has already been posted then I apologize…. I just stumbled onto it after reading the article on Fordham:

Seeking an Identity, the New Big East Takes a Familiar Stage

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/sp...pgtype=article
Interesting story. And an example of why UD should steer clear of the NBE...for now. What jumped out at me was the Xavier vs Creighton game drawing a 0.1 viewer rating. FoxSports threw alot of $$ their way, but it's gonna take awhile (if at all) to pay divedends. Some still can't find FoxSports1 on their channel guide, if they have it at all.

I love how the story characterizes the similarities of the schools (no football, spiritual leaning).
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  #1906  
Old 03-12-2014, 11:16 AM
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My local paper (a USA Today off-shoot) says Creighton is bringing 3,000 - 4,000 fans to MSG. They have big expectations this year. Don't think they'll get that every year.

Also mentions tickets are available. That was NEVER the case when UCONN & Syracuse were part of the BE.
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  #1907  
Old 03-14-2014, 09:25 AM
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Looks like the Big East's max will be 5 bids... Providence, Xavier, Creighton, 'Nova... could be a potential Seton Hall autobid if they beat Providence, but I think Providence is out if they lose to SHU.

It looks like our absolute floor is 5 bids, because even if St. Joe's is bumped out by losing to us today, we still have 5 teams comfortably in, and very possibly 6.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is: Suck it, Big East.
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  #1908  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:29 PM
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Jay Bilas clears up some things about the New Big East:

“Well, the Big East doesn’t exist anymore,” Bilas said. “I know there’s a name out there. The Big East name exists, but the Big East doesn’t exist. Once Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, once they’re broken up there is no more Big East. It’s just a name now. And they’re going to have to establish a new brand and something behind that name because what was behind the name Big East does not exist anymore.
http://zagsblog.com/articles/acc-tou...be-a-home-run/
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  #1909  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:33 PM
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I vote we remove the exclamation point from the name of this thread.
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  #1910  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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if offered will still jump. The tv money is exponentially better plus it gets us every old rivalry game back except the Irish
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  #1911  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:43 PM
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I agree that we would and should. But it's nice to reiterate that it's not like Butler and Xavier left us high and dry or anything.
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  #1912  
Old 03-14-2014, 12:52 PM
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If the rumored ACC - A10 home and home(s) were to take place, it would be a huge
lift for A10 prestige.

Might make those who "favor" the Big East think twice.
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  #1913  
Old 03-14-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Jay Bilas clears up some things about the New Big East:



http://zagsblog.com/articles/acc-tou...be-a-home-run/
OUCH! That was a bit harsh. This is expected, IMO, because the NBE was not as strong/dominant as all the talking heads said they would be at the beginning of the year. Remember media day brought out statements about getting 6 bids as a standard year in and year out... even with only 10 teams. Sorry to say, that math does not work.
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  #1914  
Old 03-14-2014, 04:59 PM
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If the refs in the NBE are better than the A10 (they have to be), it may be a better home for us.
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  #1915  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:43 PM
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I really question the wisdom of the New Big East paying all that money for the name of the Old Big East. The New Big East is so different from the Old Big East that they are regularly scoffed at when they attempt to puff up their chests in public. They should be trying to create their own identity without trying to lean on a name that is beyond its peak.
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  #1916  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:47 PM
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Can we stop this thread and start a new thread on the New Big East. I hate seeing "UD in the Big East in 2014" title, I have accepted it, but it still hurts.

I will start a new thread entitled the "New Big East."
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  #1917  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Can we stop this thread and start a new thread on the New Big East. I hate seeing "UD in the Big East in 2014" title, I have accepted it, but it still hurts.

I will start a new thread entitled the "New Big East."
How about "Dayton not Going to a Depleted Big East with Limited NCAA Bids in 2014"?

Maybe we should just change this thread name and forget about a new thread.

Last edited by Fudd; 03-15-2014 at 12:59 PM..
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  #1918  
Old 03-15-2014, 01:20 PM
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Lurking on the Holy Land board, I once heard a poster from an old line NBE school lament that he felt the future of the league was cloudy because it didn't enjoy the constant ESPN hype it had come to expect in the glory days. I think that statement is true.

Like it or not, the ESPN network (plus EPSN2, ESPNU and ESPN 360) are all-pervasive. And spots promoting the Big East were worth millions in free publicity every week.

Where is FS1 by comparison? Yes it is there. But it spends as much time promoting steel cage death matches and NASCAR as it does the NBE. And the ratings are nothing near ESPN's. I really think the A-10 TV package, though not a pot of gold, gets our games out to the public just fine through NBCsN, CBSsN and other outlets. I have watched more Flyer's and other A-10 games this year than ever before.

It works for me here in the Midwest.
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  #1919  
Old 03-15-2014, 01:48 PM
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I'll also throw in my favorite site for Midwest school comparisons.

http://www.payscale.com/college-sala...region/midwest
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  #1920  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Remarks like this indicate that you just don't understand the criteria the Carnegie Foundation uses to categorize colleges and universities. A schools "goodness" is not determined by the Carnegie category, which U.S. News follows for its rankings.

Dayton's Wright State Unversity is in the "national university" category. "Regional" schools like Creighton, Villanova and Xavier enjoy reputations that position them in an elite category...rather than the "minor leagues". How would you categorize Wright State, the "major leagues"?
Nice try, but I actually understand quite well how the Carnegie Foundation categorizes colleges and universities. All I'm saying is that the colleges and universities that are almost always mentioned as being "the best" in the country (by various sources and individuals) are almost never schools that are part of the regional categories. Divine from that piece of information what you will, but if nothing else I think it's pretty pointless to cite USNews regional rankings because these schools don't have much serious competition.
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  #1921  
Old 03-26-2014, 06:15 PM
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Very interesting perspective on Maryland vs. The ACC and what might shake out in court. Depending on how this goes, could be some movement from Big 12 and ACC schools.

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-foo...ting-nasty.php
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  #1922  
Old 03-26-2014, 11:39 PM
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Thanks, DF. A good read and very, very informative.

Taken along with the news today that the NLRB thinks Northwestern athletes are employees of the school and as such can form a union and negotiate with their "employer" over working conditions, etc., it means we are in for some fun ahead.

What is it the Chinese say? "May you live in interesting times."
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Taken along with the news today that the NLRB thinks Northwestern athletes are employees of the school and as such can form a union and negotiate with their "employer" over working conditions, etc., it means we are in for some fun ahead.
I believe several NLRB members were appointed illegally so any recent decisions could eventually be thrown out.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Thanks, DF. A good read and very, very informative.

Taken along with the news today that the NLRB thinks Northwestern athletes are employees of the school and as such can form a union and negotiate with their "employer" over working conditions, etc., it means we are in for some fun ahead.

What is it the Chinese say? "May you live in interesting times."
The Northwestern decision is only about working conditions and benefits (medical), not pay. Second, it comes not from a court but from a very far left based NLRB. Third, it does not apply to public schools.

Want to get rid of this? Tell the Northwestern people they are employees and charge all the kids income tax and FICA on their scholarship value. Let these dream world kids pay about $10,000 tax like the rest of us employees.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I believe several NLRB members were appointed illegally so any recent decisions could eventually be thrown out.
This was done by a regional NLRB board, so I'm not sure if there's any question about the legality any of their current members. Either way this is likely going to be tied up in the courts for years.

And contrary to what someone else said, according to most reports I've seen, this would potentially cover all universities both public and private.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post

Want to get rid of this? Tell the Northwestern people they are employees and charge all the kids income tax and FICA on their scholarship value. Let these dream world kids pay about $10,000 tax like the rest of us employees.
It's not going to hurt those at the top that play football or basketball in BCS conferences. It's the kids that play non-revenue sports and those that play in conferences that aren't raking in dough that are going to suffer. Then again, many non-athlete students in college these days end up paying thousands of dollars in fees to support the "dreams" of these other kids, so I'd like to believe that this might catalyze change there.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Want to get rid of this? Tell the Northwestern people they are employees and charge all the kids income tax and FICA on their scholarship value. Let these dream world kids pay about $10,000 tax like the rest of us employees.
I like it!
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Want to get rid of this? Tell the Northwestern people they are employees and charge all the kids income tax and FICA on their scholarship value. Let these dream world kids pay about $10,000 tax like the rest of us employees.
I don't know if they're playing by the rules, but other than tuition, the scholarship already is taxable.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf
Section 1.

Students typically don't have much income overall, though, so they aren't going to be paying $10,000 in taxes. Also, while it is considered income, I don't think it's considered wages, so I don't think FICA/self-employment taxes apply. (I could be wrong on that.) Turning them into employees and taxing the tuition payments would definitely cost a bunch of athletes a whole boatload of money.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
I don't know if they're playing by the rules, but other than tuition, the scholarship already is taxable.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf
Section 1.

Students typically don't have much income overall, though, so they aren't going to be paying $10,000 in taxes. Also, while it is considered income, I don't think it's considered wages, so I don't think FICA/self-employment taxes apply. (I could be wrong on that.) Turning them into employees and taxing the tuition payments would definitely cost a bunch of athletes a whole boatload of money.
That is exactly what the NLRB is saying, they are working employees and are being paid, therefore without some special exemption it is wages. Is not a scholly at NU worth about $60,000 a year. Take that in a 15% tax bracket plus FICA, which is about $14,000.

Of course the NU kids would say, "We only wanted the benefits of employment, not to have any negatives like the real world employees."
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  #1930  
Old 03-27-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The Northwestern decision is only about working conditions and benefits (medical), not pay. Second, it comes not from a court but from a very far left based NLRB. Third, it does not apply to public schools.

Want to get rid of this? Tell the Northwestern people they are employees and charge all the kids income tax and FICA on their scholarship value. Let these dream world kids pay about $10,000 tax like the rest of us employees.
I was listening to a couple of attorneys that say the scholarships are technically termed "grant-in-aid" and are not taxable. If you change grants to be taxable, that will hit academic and need-based grants as well.

Cowherd agreed with a number of points they made in their argument about the university taking care of their athletes. A couple of these points were:

1 - University should pay for medical for sport injury-related expenses.

2 - University can't cut a player loose due to injuries.

There were others, but would anyone really disagree with these items?
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by westchesterflyer View Post
Villanova is far superior to Xavier academically.
I was wrong. Georgetown different league than Villanova who is in a different league than Xavier academically.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:37 PM
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I didn't see this posted, so I thought that I would resurrect this thread.

I didn't get around to watching this 10 minute video yet, but somebody told me something about this video discussing that the NBE is going to wait 2-3 years before expanding again so as to further evaluate potential expansion candidates.

Oh well, I hope UD does well in the next few years.

http://www.goxavier.com/genrel/050714aaa.html
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
I was wrong. Georgetown different league than Villanova who is in a different league than Xavier academically.

Georgetown is clearly in their own league when it comes to entrance difficulty then Notre Dame and BC with BC...the only reason Nova gets a mentioned in the same breath with these 3 is because it's a fall back school. All the eastern Catholic preps tht apply to Gtown and BC apply to Nova as well...if they applied to UD and X (and some probably do)...UD's entrance difficulty which is already approaching Nova's (as a % of applied) would become greater. Nova is simply geographically better positioned to some of the best educated Catholic high school kids in USA many of them focused on college entrance requirements and parents willing to spend $250,000 on a college education.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:25 AM
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Not quite right...

Originally Posted by oRed View Post
Georgetown is clearly in their own league when it comes to entrance difficulty then Notre Dame and BC with BC...the only reason Nova gets a mentioned in the same breath with these 3 is because it's a fall back school. All the eastern Catholic preps tht apply to Gtown and BC apply to Nova as well...if they applied to UD and X (and some probably do)...UD's entrance difficulty which is already approaching Nova's (as a % of applied) would become greater. Nova is simply geographically better positioned to some of the best educated Catholic high school kids in USA many of them focused on college entrance requirements and parents willing to spend $250,000 on a college education.
Percent admitted , or "entrance difficulty" is not a good measure. That stat is easily gamed and UD does as good a job at that as anyone.

Consider: If a freshman class at a school typically is comprised of students with an ave SAT score of 1000 who are ranked in the top 35% of their HS class....and 9000 applied with 6000 accepted, that means an acceptance rate of 67%. Now suppose the admissions office goes on a campaign to "sell" the school, beats the bushes so as to increase the number of applicants from 9000 to 12,000. SAT scores and class rank of those admitted does not change; but the number accepted stays at 6000, meaning the acceptance rate declined to 50%. Thus the "selectivity" improves from 67% to 50%.

But, the fact is the freshman class make-up has not changed.

What matters far more is the SAT/ACT scores and HS class rank. Although UD's selectivity has risen dramatically, the HS academic stats of the freshman class have barely changed for many years.

Schools like ND, GU, BC,....and yes Villanova,...have freshman classes for which > 80% of the students are in the top 10% of their HS classes, with SAT/ACT scores to match. As I recall, UD's figure is about 50%.

Increasing selectivity is a good move and freshman academic stats should, over time, start to reflect that. But, a school's reputation among HS counselors is a far more important factor encouraging top HS students to attend a school.

Villanova a "fall back" school? Anyone familiar with VU knows that is not the case. VU is ranked #1 U.S. news among hundreds of north regional schools. Don't be confused by the fact that ND, GU and BC are in the national school category.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 05-09-2014 at 08:47 AM.. Reason: corrected typo
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  #1935  
Old 05-09-2014, 07:56 AM
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My son is a HS senior and I'm shocked how many bottom feeders (GPA/ACT) from his class were accepted by UD but outright rejected (not wait-listed) by Miami and tOSU, schools UD would like to equal or surpass.

UD gets some brilliant kids, no doubt about that, but if they wish to ever make the 'Top 100 University' list, they need to weed out the kids with questionable academic records.

But it's a business...and if that kid with a 20 ACT has parents willing and able to pay full tuition, I guess UD would be foolish to turn it down.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
My son is a HS senior and I'm shocked how many bottom feeders (GPA/ACT) from his class were accepted by UD but outright rejected (not wait-listed) by Miami and tOSU, schools UD would like to equal or surpass.

UD gets some brilliant kids, no doubt about that, but if they wish to ever make the 'Top 100 University' list, they need to weed out the kids with questionable academic records.

But it's a business...and if that kid with a 20 ACT has parents willing and able to pay full tuition, I guess UD would be foolish to turn it down.
Interesting, because I know several examples of the exact opposite to be true just two years ago, when my son was a HS senior (now UD soph to be). Two went from UD rejected to Miami, 3 to OSU, 2 to OU. My guess is it depends on the year. My issue with UD is the recent trend to recruit/admit over abundance of international students, but that's a whole other topic...
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  #1937  
Old 05-09-2014, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
My issue with UD is the recent trend to recruit/admit over abundance of international students, but that's a whole other topic...
I can't share internal info but you're right...and you should be...cuz it's just the beginning.

And stop calling them 'international' because it isn't like we're scouring Central and South America or Congo, Iceland, Greece and Poland.

Middle East and China is hardly 'international'...appeasement and acclimation to the NWO is more like it.


On the good side, however, is the very real possibility of us anchoring the new Middle East Conference in 2025...televised by AJSN (Al Jazeera Sports Network) of course....
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  #1938  
Old 05-09-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I can't share internal info but you're right...and you should be...cuz it's just the beginning.

And stop calling them 'international' because it isn't like we're scouring Central and South America or Congo, Iceland, Greece and Poland.

Middle East and China is hardly 'international'...appeasement and acclimation to the NWO is more like it.


On the good side, however, is the very real possibility of us anchoring the new Middle East Conference in 2025...televised by AJSN (Al Jazeera Sorts Network) of course....
I was trying to keep it "PC" in using international...my bad. Could go on, especially after having attended commencement last weekend...but I won't. I know you know this, Rollo, but I'm tired of hearing from faculty and staff at UD at how labor intensive it is for them to "tend" to the int'l students, usually at the expense of those from US.
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  #1939  
Old 05-09-2014, 09:20 AM
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Academic repution...

UD has a lot going for it....beautiful campus, great facilities and other amenities. And UD's academic reputation is improving....but, ooooh so slowly.

The way to "grow" academic reputation is through improvement in the credentials of the incoming freshman class, i.e., test scores and class rank.

But, how do you do that? It's not easy...and reputation is a lagging indicator.

A school has facilities (e.g., beds) to accommodate a certain number of freshman comfortably. Come September you don't want 1000 more freshmen to show up than you can handle. And you don't want 1000 fewer than you can handle resulting in empty beds and low revenue. The admissions office has years of data indicating how many students it must accept in order to ensure that the "right" number actually accept and show up each September. But, that's not an exact science...probably no better than plus or minus 10-15% or so.

For UD with about 2000 freshman, plus/minus 10-15% is a pretty big swing.

If UD really wants to improve the academics of its freshmen significantly it has to really tighten admission requirements, not just the acceptance rate. To do so involves risk, e.g., fewer freshmen than the facilities can handle and less revenue. It may take years of that before the freshmen academic stats improve from the current ~ 1100-1150 SATs and ~ 30-35 % top 10% HS rank to, say, 1200-1250 and 60-65%.

That would be a big improvement, no doubt resulting in a greatly improved reputation among counselors, parents, students, etc. With the cost of private schools so high and a process such as I've described taking many years to show significant results....doing so ain't easy. Probably UD is doing the best it can in the current environment.

Nonetheless, kids (and their parents) are impressionable. Consistent athletic prominence of the type we all enjoyed this past BB season would have a much greater impact on UD's rep than on schools like ND, GU, BC, VU,...that have already "arrived", so to speak.

In the New England states, for example, UD is practically unknown, with the result that UD draws a very small of students from those states. Other regions are similar. But, I can assure Priders that during March/April of this year UD made a media splash that did not go unnoticed. To have meaningful impact on HS student/parent interest, such PR has to be relatively consistent.

For the University of Dayton the national success of its men's basketball team really matters.
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  #1940  
Old 05-09-2014, 10:10 AM
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One factor that hasn't been touched on too much is the cost of a UD diploma, and the relationship that has, if any, to the endowment.

Seems to me lots of kids we are aiming for have offers from multiple schools and they -- or their parents -- frequently pick the one that is willing to give them the best "discount" on tuition.

I noticed that a recent article put the UD endowment at 450 million, information that isn't readily available even if you wait for the NACUBO yearly list to come out. Nice that it has continued to grow in spite of the tremendous pressure that must have been put on the university budget with the land and facilities acquisitions from NCR. I mean, we now even have a fairly large park and lagoon on campus.

All in all, I wonder how much we "offer" in comparison with other schools.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:28 AM
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Prider parents...

Originally Posted by bobber View Post
One factor that hasn't been touched on too much is the cost of a UD diploma, and the relationship that has, if any, to the endowment.

Seems to me lots of kids we are aiming for have offers from multiple schools and they -- or their parents -- frequently pick the one that is willing to give them the best "discount" on tuition.

I noticed that a recent article put the UD endowment at 450 million, information that isn't readily available even if you wait for the NACUBO yearly list to come out. Nice that it has continued to grow in spite of the tremendous pressure that must have been put on the university budget with the land and facilities acquisitions from NCR. I mean, we now even have a fairly large park and lagoon on campus.

All in all, I wonder how much we "offer" in comparison with other schools.
For sure there are Priders with kids at UD that can answer that question.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:33 AM
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What has all this got to do with the new big least? Let’s get back on the topic of Basketball!
When the topic invariably switches to east coast catholic school’s reputations the same poster say the same things over and over and over and over…. ad nasuium. I could recite them even before they post em…. Give it a rest! Saying it again and again does not make you opinion any more true than my opinion… which I will spare you all from as you certainly already know where I stand on all this.
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  #1943  
Old 05-09-2014, 02:32 PM
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Thanks thread police...

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
What has all this got to do with the new big least? Let’s get back on the topic of Basketball!
When the topic invariably switches to east coast catholic school’s reputations the same poster say the same things over and over and over and over…. ad nasuium. I could recite them even before they post em…. Give it a rest! Saying it again and again does not make you opinion any more true than my opinion… which I will spare you all from as you certainly already know where I stand on all this.
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...because in a 20 page thread the subject has never gone off track. Nor is ever a thread able to spawn other subjects. Wow.
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:28 PM
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There is a connection,...

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
What has all this got to do with the new big least? Let’s get back on the topic of Basketball!
When the topic invariably switches to east coast catholic school’s reputations the same poster say the same things over and over and over and over…. ad nasuium. I could recite them even before they post em…. Give it a rest! Saying it again and again does not make you opinion any more true than my opinion… which I will spare you all from as you certainly already know where I stand on all this.
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This is a very long thread. But early on it was mentioned that the "elitest" schools of the NBE, GU, VU and MU in particular, were "not impressed" shall we say, with UD's academic reputation. And that while BB was the central focus of the NBE, institutional factors were a consideration.

From a BB perspective alone UD would seem to be a no-brainer for the NBE,..an obvious asset. Is UD's perceived reputational deficiency in any way relevant to NBE membership? Who knows? But there is a connection with the NBE invitation issue.
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  #1945  
Old 05-09-2014, 03:36 PM
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I believe that would be story # 37....
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Xavier and Butler fit the bill, top tier all the way. Dayton is another PC/SHU/DU-level program....big arena and rabid fan base or not. Sadly, our last decades of play have cemented our role. If you were one of the C3 would you believe a pitch from UD along the lines, "Add us and things will be different, we'll change". Yeah, right.

UD is attractive for many reasons, many. Unfortunately, we are not attractive for the reason the C3/C7 have said is most important to them...top-tier basketball.

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

From a BB perspective alone UD would seem to be a no-brainer for the NBE,..an obvious asset. Is UD's perceived reputational deficiency in any way relevant to NBE membership? Who knows? But there is a connection with the NBE invitation issue.
I'm not sure what you are saying with these two posts. Are we attractive for other reasons but not basketball, or are we attractive for basketball but not for other reasons?
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  #1947  
Old 05-09-2014, 04:43 PM
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Big (L)east basketball???

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
My son is a HS senior and I'm shocked how many bottom feeders (GPA/ACT) from his class were accepted by UD but outright rejected (not wait-listed) by Miami and tOSU, schools UD would like to equal or surpass.

UD gets some brilliant kids, no doubt about that, but if they wish to ever make the 'Top 100 University' list, they need to weed out the kids with questionable academic records.

But it's a business...and if that kid with a 20 ACT has parents willing and able to pay full tuition, I guess UD would be foolish to turn it down.
Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Interesting, because I know several examples of the exact opposite to be true just two years ago, when my son was a HS senior (now UD soph to be). Two went from UD rejected to Miami, 3 to OSU, 2 to OU. My guess is it depends on the year. My issue with UD is the recent trend to recruit/admit over abundance of international students, but that's a whole other topic...
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I can't share internal info but you're right...and you should be...cuz it's just the beginning.

And stop calling them 'international' because it isn't like we're scouring Central and South America or Congo, Iceland, Greece and Poland.

Middle East and China is hardly 'international'...appeasement and acclimation to the NWO is more like it.


On the good side, however, is the very real possibility of us anchoring the new Middle East Conference in 2025...televised by AJSN (Al Jazeera Sports Network) of course....
Originally Posted by bobber View Post
One factor that hasn't been touched on too much is the cost of a UD diploma, and the relationship that has, if any, to the endowment.

Seems to me lots of kids we are aiming for have offers from multiple schools and they -- or their parents -- frequently pick the one that is willing to give them the best "discount" on tuition.

I noticed that a recent article put the UD endowment at 450 million, information that isn't readily available even if you wait for the NACUBO yearly list to come out. Nice that it has continued to grow in spite of the tremendous pressure that must have been put on the university budget with the land and facilities acquisitions from NCR. I mean, we now even have a fairly large park and lagoon on campus.

All in all, I wonder how much we "offer" in comparison with other schools.


A "few" random thoughts:

1) Rollo why do you seem to love dissing the University of Dayton in any way possible(academics, athletics, etc.)----often relying on "internal info" that you never substantiate-----but always seems to be the basis for your outlandish statements about all things UD?

2) You supposedly work in an adjunct capacity in the school of Engineering, but any opportunity you get to spread an innuendo about the academic side of things you jump on it........maybe one of the first things the University should do to shore up all of your perceived weaknesses on the academic side is get rid of "part time" whinny faculty like you who clearly for some reason are un happy/depressed/otherwise upset or for whatever reason need to find a place that is worthy of all of your talents;

3) There are a number problems with some of the interenational students that are getting to UD but they pay either dollar for dollar OR close to it-----on the $47,000-$48,000 per year tuition/room and board costs when UD has to offer typically between $12,000 to $17,000 a year in scholarship money to the incoming Freshman to stay in line with our mid west "peers" who have similar tuition, room and board, etc aka Xavier, St. Louis, Marquette, St. Mary's etc.;

4) At UD the bottom line as with all/most American Universities is making money right.....it is no coincidence that our President, the gentleman on campus in charge of admissions and many, many more things as time passes have concocted the current formula to make sure our "bottom line" stays very BLACK!----when places like Xavier down south (after all there big tourney successes) cut 800K last year in "costs" with millions more in "cuts" expected and in the process----they probably wish they could get some middle easterners and chinese on campus--right or wrong!

5) Our endowment is a healthy number but our yearly giving numbers have been pathetic for 5+ years with no end in sight! ****Remember the 350K campiagn that we haven't heard anything about in years? ***The recently announced "scaled down" Chapel renovation that is under way as a few of the indicators! Clearly a problem for Dr. Dan going forward because he has hand picked the last two folks currently in charge of fund raising and both have failed miserably including the current regime who has everybody walking on pins and needles, has tried to implement some "different" fundraising strategies (previously used at the University in days gone by...) and seen nothing to show for it over the past 3+ years except lower than hoped for numbers in all categories except the yearly fund percentages which have shown some increases (msotly through the efforts of a couple folks but also mostly because the previous years numbers have been so pathetically low);

6) While the endowment is rather high (compared to X, etc.) and has been increasing the past several years, most of that has to do with the portfolio balances and NOT the influx of NEW monies or significant gifting----the guy in charge isn't cutting it and the longer he stays in charge the more damage that continues to be done (just like the damage started by Dr. Currens' previous hire who led to mass defections of some of our best career fundraisers at UD who had developed the relationshuips necessary to amass the current endoment);

7) I have many friends who have kids applying to Universities currently and and several that have kids go through that process during the past 5-10 years (involving UD, Miami, tOSU, St. Louis, Xavier, etc)----in speaking to those folks, to a person there families stories sound nothing like what Rollo has stated about "bottom feeders" being accepted at UD and then throwing around 20 ACT scores, etc. as "his" indicators most assuredly based upon his "top secret classified INTEL"? In addition then staing that these kids getting into UD can't even get "wait listed" at Miami if Ohio and tOSU? Give me a break already? If kids are attending the Oakwood school district that abuts campus (I'm guessing where Rollo's kids attend based upon his many posts****Rollo IF I'm wrong about that let us know so we can check out all these 20ACT's that are gaining admission to UD but can't get into Miami, etc.) and there are "bottom feeders" and kids with 20 ACT's in there classes you should look for another school district or go the private or Catholic route in a south suburb----needless to say I have heard NOTHING like that from my friends (i.e.) UD is admitting kids with 20 ACT's who can't get a whiff at Miami, etc;

8) tOSU has indeed gotten alot more difficult to get into "main campus" admission over the past 10+ years, but tOSU still accepts plenty of high school seniors and simply telling them that after a year or two at one of there "other" campuses in Middletown ,etc. the students can (if they want) apply for tOSU main campus admission----I know of NO KID who hasn't been granted this priviledge who worked hard and did OK at a branch campus--tOSU has to control in some way the thousands of applicants and this works;

9) What UD is offereing to student(s) out respectable high schools (both Catholic and otherwise in Ohio and elsewhere) is comperable as I stated above with what St. Louis and other Catholic schools are offering------with the exception of Xavier. and several others. I have seen over and over that they have offered students/parents that I am intimately familiar with $2-$5,000 K MORE a year than UD offers and that as mentioned does win over some folks/students looking at both schools plus others in the mid-west. Hard to adequately evaluate what UD's $$$$ means when looking at public schools and there tuition because it is really so different, can be so much less, but often I hear that IF you take the money UD offers as detailed above (*****which is available for everyone who visits campus to see i.e. all based on charts like if you have a 3.75 GPA and an ACT OVER 30+ you get 17 K per year in scholarship, etc. SO ALL "other" schools know what UD is going to offer based upon a prospective students #'s , etc.) that attending tOSU and Miami gets alot closer number wise! Bottom line, som eof us want what UD offers...a Catholic education at the college level plus all the fixin's.......despite what some "in the know" claim...it's a special place to spend 4 years!

Sorry so long guys/gals..........

Last edited by College B-Ball Fan; 05-09-2014 at 06:32 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #1948  
Old 05-09-2014, 05:19 PM
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C'mon,....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I'm not sure what you are saying with these two posts. Are we attractive for other reasons but not basketball, or are we attractive for basketball but not for other reasons?
Longtimer, I realize how you enjoy your potshots at me. I won't try to deprive you of that. But, considering that there was a UD Elite 8 run squeezed between the two posts you cited....I'm not too proud to request that you cut me just a little slack.
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  #1949  
Old 05-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan View Post
A "few" random thoughts:

1) Rollo why do you seem to love dissing the University of Dayton in any way possible(academics, athletics, etc.)----often relying on "internal info" that you never substantiate-----but always seems to be the basis for your outlandish statements about all things UD?

2) You supposedly work in an adjunct capacity in the school of Engineering, but any opportunity you get to spread an innuendo about the academic side of things you jump on it........maybe one of the first things the University should do to shore up all of your perceived weaknesses on the academic side is get rid of "part time" whinny faculty like you who clearly for some reason are un happy/depressed/otherwise upset or for whatever reason need to find a place that is worthy of all of your talents;

3) There are a number problems with some of the interenational students that are getting to UD but they pay either dollar for dollar OR close to it-----on the $47,000-$48,000 per year tuition/room and board costs when UD has to offer typically between $12,000 to $17,000 a year in scholarship money to the incoming Freshman to stay in line with our mid west "peers" who have similar tuition, room and board, etc aka Xavier, St. Louis, Marquette, St. Mary's etc.;

4) At UD the bottom line as with all/most American Universities is making money right.....it is no coincidence that our President, the gentleman on campus in charge of admissions and many, many more things as time passes have concocted the current formula to make sure our "bottom line" stays very BLACK!----when places like Xavier down south (after all there big tourney successes) cut 800K last year in "costs" with millions more in "cuts" expected and in the process----they probably wish they could get some middle easterners and chinese on campus--right or wrong!

5) Our endowment is a healthy number but our yearly giving numbers have been pathetic for 5+ years with no end in sight! ****Remember the 350K campiagn that we haven't heard anything about in years? ***The recently announced "scaled down" Chapel renovation that is under way as a few of the indicators! Clearly a problem for Dr. Dan going forward because he has hand picked the last two folks currently in charge of fund raising and both have failed miserably including the current regime who has everybody walking on pins and needles, has tried to implement some "different" fundraising strategies (previously used at the University in days gone by...) and seen nothing to show for it over the past 3+ years except lower than hoped for numbers in all categories except the yearly fund percentages which have shown some increases (msotly through the efforts of a couple folks but also mostly because the previous years numbers have been so pathetically low);

6) While the endowment is rather high (compared to X, etc.) and has been increasing the past several years, most of that has to do with the portfolio balances and NOT the influx of NEW monies or significant gifting----the guy in charge isn't cutting it and the longer he stays in charge the more damage that continues to be done (just like the damage started by Dr. Currens' previous hire who led to mass defections of some of our best career fundraisers at UD who had developed the relationshuips necessary to amass the current endoment);

7) I have many friends who have kids applying to Universities currently and and several that have kids go through that process during the past 5-10 years (involving UD, Miami, tOSU, St. Louis, Xavier, etc)----in speaking to those folks, to a person there families stories sound nothing like what Rollo has stated about "bottom feeders" being accepted at UD and then throwing around 20 ACT scores, etc. as "his" indicators most assuredly based upon his "top secret classified INTEL"? In addition then staing that these kids getting into UD can't even get "wait listed" at Miami if Ohio and tOSU? Give me a break already? If kids are attending the Oakwood school district that abuts campus (I'm guessing where Rollo's kids attend based upon his many posts****Rollo IF I'm wrong about that let us know so we can check out all these 20ACT's that are gaining admission to UD but can't get into Miami, etc.) and there are "bottom feeders" and kids with 20 ACT's in there classes you should look for another school district or go the private or Catholic route in a south suburb----needless to say I have heard NOTHING like that from my friends (i.e.) UD is admitting kids with 20 ACT's who can't get a whiff at Miami, etc;

8) tOSU has indeed gotten alot more difficult to get into "main campus" admission over the past 10+ years, but tOSU still accepts plenty of high school seniors and simply telling them that after a year or two at one of there "other" campuses in Middletown ,etc. the students can (if they want) apply for tOSU main campus admission----I know of NO KID who hasn't been granted this priviledge who worked hard and did OK at a branch campus--tOSU has to control in some way the thousands of applicants and this works;

9) What UD is offereing to student(s) out respectable high schools (both Catholic and otherwise in Ohio and elsewhere) is comperable as I stated above with what St. Louis and other Catholic schools are offering------with the exception of Xavier. and several others. I have seen over and over that they have offered students/parents that I am intimately familiar with $2-$5,000 K MORE a year than UD offers and that as mentioned does win over some folks/students looking at both schools plus others in the mid-west. Hard to adequately evaluate what UD's $$$$ means when looking at public schools and there tuition because it is really so different, can be so much less, but often I hear that IF you take the money UD offers as detailed above (*****which is available for everyone who visits campus to see i.e. all based on charts like if you have a 3.75 GPA and an ACT OVER 30+ you get 17 K per year in scholarship, etc. SO ALL "other" schools know what UD is going to offer based upon a prospective students #'s , etc.)

Sorry so long guys/gals..........
I hope you wiped good and hard after that dump...and I pray that your fan works.
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:48 PM
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Former Professor's estate bequests UD over $500,000

To take the thread further off topic.
Story was on the evening news.
http://www.udayton.edu/news/articles...ngineering.php
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  #1951  
Old 05-09-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by College B-Ball Fan View Post
A "few" random thoughts:

1) Rollo why do you seem to love dissing the University of Dayton in any way possible(academics, athletics, etc.)----often relying on "internal info" that you never substantiate-----but always seems to be the basis for your outlandish statements about all things UD?

2) You supposedly work in an adjunct capacity in the school of Engineering, but any opportunity you get to spread an innuendo about the academic side of things you jump on it........maybe one of the first things the University should do to shore up all of your perceived weaknesses on the academic side is get rid of "part time" whinny faculty like you who clearly for some reason are un happy/depressed/otherwise upset or for whatever reason need to find a place that is worthy of all of your talents;

3) There are a number problems with some of the interenational students that are getting to UD but they pay either dollar for dollar OR close to it-----on the $47,000-$48,000 per year tuition/room and board costs when UD has to offer typically between $12,000 to $17,000 a year in scholarship money to the incoming Freshman to stay in line with our mid west "peers" who have similar tuition, room and board, etc aka Xavier, St. Louis, Marquette, St. Mary's etc.;

4) At UD the bottom line as with all/most American Universities is making money right.....it is no coincidence that our President, the gentleman on campus in charge of admissions and many, many more things as time passes have concocted the current formula to make sure our "bottom line" stays very BLACK!----when places like Xavier down south (after all there big tourney successes) cut 800K last year in "costs" with millions more in "cuts" expected and in the process----they probably wish they could get some middle easterners and chinese on campus--right or wrong!

5) Our endowment is a healthy number but our yearly giving numbers have been pathetic for 5+ years with no end in sight! ****Remember the 350K campiagn that we haven't heard anything about in years? ***The recently announced "scaled down" Chapel renovation that is under way as a few of the indicators! Clearly a problem for Dr. Dan going forward because he has hand picked the last two folks currently in charge of fund raising and both have failed miserably including the current regime who has everybody walking on pins and needles, has tried to implement some "different" fundraising strategies (previously used at the University in days gone by...) and seen nothing to show for it over the past 3+ years except lower than hoped for numbers in all categories except the yearly fund percentages which have shown some increases (msotly through the efforts of a couple folks but also mostly because the previous years numbers have been so pathetically low);

6) While the endowment is rather high (compared to X, etc.) and has been increasing the past several years, most of that has to do with the portfolio balances and NOT the influx of NEW monies or significant gifting----the guy in charge isn't cutting it and the longer he stays in charge the more damage that continues to be done (just like the damage started by Dr. Currens' previous hire who led to mass defections of some of our best career fundraisers at UD who had developed the relationshuips necessary to amass the current endoment);

7) I have many friends who have kids applying to Universities currently and and several that have kids go through that process during the past 5-10 years (involving UD, Miami, tOSU, St. Louis, Xavier, etc)----in speaking to those folks, to a person there families stories sound nothing like what Rollo has stated about "bottom feeders" being accepted at UD and then throwing around 20 ACT scores, etc. as "his" indicators most assuredly based upon his "top secret classified INTEL"? In addition then staing that these kids getting into UD can't even get "wait listed" at Miami if Ohio and tOSU? Give me a break already? If kids are attending the Oakwood school district that abuts campus (I'm guessing where Rollo's kids attend based upon his many posts****Rollo IF I'm wrong about that let us know so we can check out all these 20ACT's that are gaining admission to UD but can't get into Miami, etc.) and there are "bottom feeders" and kids with 20 ACT's in there classes you should look for another school district or go the private or Catholic route in a south suburb----needless to say I have heard NOTHING like that from my friends (i.e.) UD is admitting kids with 20 ACT's who can't get a whiff at Miami, etc;

8) tOSU has indeed gotten alot more difficult to get into "main campus" admission over the past 10+ years, but tOSU still accepts plenty of high school seniors and simply telling them that after a year or two at one of there "other" campuses in Middletown ,etc. the students can (if they want) apply for tOSU main campus admission----I know of NO KID who hasn't been granted this priviledge who worked hard and did OK at a branch campus--tOSU has to control in some way the thousands of applicants and this works;

9) What UD is offereing to student(s) out respectable high schools (both Catholic and otherwise in Ohio and elsewhere) is comperable as I stated above with what St. Louis and other Catholic schools are offering------with the exception of Xavier. and several others. I have seen over and over that they have offered students/parents that I am intimately familiar with $2-$5,000 K MORE a year than UD offers and that as mentioned does win over some folks/students looking at both schools plus others in the mid-west. Hard to adequately evaluate what UD's $$$$ means when looking at public schools and there tuition because it is really so different, can be so much less, but often I hear that IF you take the money UD offers as detailed above (*****which is available for everyone who visits campus to see i.e. all based on charts like if you have a 3.75 GPA and an ACT OVER 30+ you get 17 K per year in scholarship, etc. SO ALL "other" schools know what UD is going to offer based upon a prospective students #'s , etc.)

Sorry so long guys/gals..........
I, too, have noticed Rollo's penchant to take shots at the university, all based on secret information that only he has access to.
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  #1952  
Old 05-09-2014, 06:34 PM
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The next time the advisory board I'm on has a meeting, I'll invite both you and cbbfan to attend. You won't be allowed in, but I'll still invite you. And when it's over I'll tell you everything we discussed and since you weren't there to hear it personally you won't believe any of it and I'll be put on the defensive simply because I'm invited and allowed places you aren't.

Cool?
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  #1953  
Old 05-09-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Longtimer, I realize how you enjoy your potshots at me. I won't try to deprive you of that. But, considering that there was a UD Elite 8 run squeezed between the two posts you cited....I'm not too proud to request that you cut me just a little slack.
So I guess you are saying that one Elite 8 has erased decades of mediocrity and the recent "lost decade." I'm not sure one Elite 8 will make that big of an impression on Georgetown, Villanova, etc.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:52 PM
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Nope!

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
So I guess you are saying that one Elite 8 has erased decades of mediocrity and the recent "lost decade." I'm not sure one Elite 8 will make that big of an impression on Georgetown, Villanova, etc.
I'm not saying that at all.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:49 PM
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  #1956  
Old 05-09-2014, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
My son is a HS senior and I'm shocked how many bottom feeders (GPA/ACT) from his class were accepted by UD but outright rejected (not wait-listed) by Miami and tOSU, schools UD would like to equal or surpass.

UD gets some brilliant kids, no doubt about that, but if they wish to ever make the 'Top 100 University' list, they need to weed out the kids with questionable academic records.

But it's a business...and if that kid with a 20 ACT has parents willing and able to pay full tuition, I guess UD would be foolish to turn it down.
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I can't share internal info but you're right...and you should be...cuz it's just the beginning.

And stop calling them 'international' because it isn't like we're scouring Central and South America or Congo, Iceland, Greece and Poland.

Middle East and China is hardly 'international'...appeasement and acclimation to the NWO is more like it.


On the good side, however, is the very real possibility of us anchoring the new Middle East Conference in 2025...televised by AJSN (Al Jazeera Sports Network) of course....

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I hope you wiped good and hard after that dump...and I pray that your fan works.


Rollo, Ditto, funny that's similar to the thought(s) I have when I read your posts like those I quoted above where your dissing the University that allows you to sit on any board, advisory or not?

Last edited by College B-Ball Fan; 05-09-2014 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The next time the advisory board I'm on has a meeting, I'll invite both you and cbbfan to attend. You won't be allowed in, but I'll still invite you. And when it's over I'll tell you everything we discussed and since you weren't there to hear it personally you won't believe any of it and I'll be put on the defensive simply because I'm invited and allowed places you aren't.

Cool?


Rollo, your next advisory board meeting should be scheduled for the last weekend in September----the 27th I believe-----whether they've told you the date yet or not!

You don't know near as much as you think you do!

Sleep well!
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
I'm not saying that at all.
Forgive me for sticking my nose in, but what are you saying then? I am curious.
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  #1959  
Old 05-09-2014, 11:44 PM
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  #1960  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
To take the thread further off topic.
Story was on the evening news.
http://www.udayton.edu/news/articles...ngineering.php
I took many classes from Professor Kubach and am sorry to hear he died but it is wonderful that he donated so much to UD. My brother GOUDGO got to know him fairly well and he told him some amazing stories about fighting for Germany on the Russian Front.
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  #1961  
Old 05-10-2014, 01:41 AM
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Off the rails

Would someone please wake me when this thread officially dies it's rightful death! I don't think I've seen so much drivel in one spot since I last read the op-Ed pages of the NYT. Of the last 200 posts, how many have anything to do with UD gaining entrance into the NBE? 5%??

I really thought this thread had finally flamed out...only to see it pull a Lazarus AGAIN in the last 48-72 hours...zzzzzzzz. Chris...kill it PLEASE! With the only stipulation that a new thread can be started only when there is some REAL news about the topic at hand!
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  #1962  
Old 05-10-2014, 06:06 AM
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Dayton not Going to a Depleted Big East with Limited NCAA Bids in 2014
The devil made me do it.
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  #1963  
Old 05-10-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Would someone please wake me when this thread officially dies it's rightful death! I don't think I've seen so much drivel in one spot since I last read the op-Ed pages of the NYT. Of the last 200 posts, how many have anything to do with UD gaining entrance into the NBE? 5%??

I really thought this thread had finally flamed out...only to see it pull a Lazarus AGAIN in the last 48-72 hours...zzzzzzzz. Chris...kill it PLEASE! With the only stipulation that a new thread can be started only when there is some REAL news about the topic at hand!
If you don't like it don't read it. I like the current discussion in this thread. It is pretty simple. If you do not like a song on the radio or a show on the TV do you leave it on and whine or do you change the channel?
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  #1964  
Old 05-10-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Forgive me for sticking my nose in, but what are you saying then? I am curious.
Thank you for asking him that. I am curious too, but if I had asked he just would have accused me of "taking potshots" at him again. That seems to me to be exactly what he is saying. Before the Elite 8 he said we were not attractive for basketball, and that our last decades of play had cemented that fact. After the Elite 8 he said we are a no-brainer for basketball. I assumed he was saying that one Elite 8 erased our last decades of mediocrity.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:38 AM
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Ya know...I wonder myself,...

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Thank you for asking him that. I am curious too, but if I had asked he just would have accused me of "taking potshots" at him again. That seems to me to be exactly what he is saying. Before the Elite 8 he said we were not attractive for basketball, and that our last decades of play had cemented that fact. After the Elite 8 he said we are a no-brainer for basketball. I assumed he was saying that one Elite 8 erased our last decades of mediocrity.
...what did I mean, that is. So, in response to longtimer's curiosity, I've thought about it.

The two posts of mine that longtimer dug up were made at different times; and as I mentioned, with a very important happening in between, our glorious Elite 8 triumph. Thus, the difference in context matters, in my opinion.

In connection with the pre-Elite 8 first post, I "think" this is what I had in mind: The NBE schools emphasized at the outset that their number one priority was ensuring the new conference was top-tier all the way when it came to basketball. Since the legacy schools of the NBE were to stay together as a group...and not all were "top-tier', I interpreted that remark to refer to schools that were candidates for addition.

That being the case, UD BB did not meet the criterion. The Flyers performance in past decades has not been top-tier any way you look at it.

As for the post Elite 8 second post, made recently, in which I used the term "no brainer" in connection with UD's attractiveness: First, I am still a bit giddy re our NCAA triumphs. Second, what I was focused on, I believe, was not on-court performance as much as fan support, great attendance, TV attractiveness, etc, all of which are receiving more attention now that Fox sports TV ratings are known.

That's about it....the best I can do to explain myself. We're not talking about world economics, cancer cures, Russian revanchism,....we're talking about basketball...a bit less important.

One final point. Quite a while ago I referred to the BG era as a "lost decade". Longtimer strenuously objected to that...and brought it up again. Priders will recall that during the week of fabulous NCAA publicity UD received, just about every article about UD included mention of our past futility. Had Gonzaga, X, Villanova, St. Joes made the Elite 8 they would not have reveived a fraction of the PR Dayton received. We were this year's cinderella team. The fact that we were not "there" in 30 years was emphasized over and over. One announcer kept saying it was 50 years!

We're talking decades here....three of them. So, to refer to the BG decade as a "lost decade" still seems quite reasonable to me, considering that we underachived and disappointed during that period. The guys we now have in the NBA or with a foot in the NBA show that we had the talent...but we did not meet expectations and ended the decade in just about the same position that we entered it...a 0.500 A10 team with NCAA appearances a rarity.

I hope this clarifies my views. Whatever, I am always open to counter opinions and corrections..and am always willing to rethink positions I hold or may have held.

(By the way, I don't think our Elite 8 is enough...we've got to capitalize on it and demonstrate consistency.)

Last edited by UACFlyer; 05-10-2014 at 10:43 AM.. Reason: Added last sentence.)
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  #1966  
Old 05-10-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...what did I mean, that is. So, in response to longtimer's curiosity, I've thought about it.

The two posts of mine that longtimer dug up were made at different times; and as I mentioned, with a very important happening in between, our glorious Elite 8 triumph. Thus, the difference in context matters, in my opinion.

In connection with the pre-Elite 8 first post, I "think" this is what I had in mind: The NBE schools emphasized at the outset that their number one priority was ensuring the new conference was top-tier all the way when it came to basketball. Since the legacy schools of the NBE were to stay together as a group...and not all were "top-tier', I interpreted that remark to refer to schools that were candidates for addition.

That being the case, UD BB did not meet the criterion. The Flyers performance in past decades has not been top-tier any way you look at it.

As for the post Elite 8 second post, made recently, in which I used the term "no brainer" in connection with UD's attractiveness: First, I am still a bit giddy re our NCAA triumphs. Second, what I was focused on, I believe, was not on-court performance as much as fan support, great attendance, TV attractiveness, etc, all of which are receiving more attention now that Fox sports TV ratings are known.

That's about it....the best I can do to explain myself. We're not talking about world economics, cancer cures, Russian revanchism,....we're talking about basketball...a bit less important.

One final point. Quite a while ago I referred to the BG era as a "lost decade". Longtimer strenuously objected to that...and brought it up again. Priders will recall that during the week of fabulous NCAA publicity UD received, just about every article about UD included mention of our past futility. Had Gonzaga, X, Villanova, St. Joes made the Elite 8 they would not have reveived a fraction of the PR Dayton received. We were this year's cinderella team. The fact that we were not "there" in 30 years was emphasized over and over. One announcer kept saying it was 50 years!

We're talking decades here....three of them. So, to refer to the BG decade as a "lost decade" still seems quite reasonable to me, considering that we underachived and disappointed during that period. The guys we now have in the NBA or with a foot in the NBA show that we had the talent...but we did not meet expectations and ended the decade in just about the same position that we entered it...a 0.500 A10 team with NCAA appearances a rarity.

I hope this clarifies my views. Whatever, I am always open to counter opinions and corrections..and am always willing to rethink positions I hold or may have held.

(By the way, I don't think our Elite 8 is enough...we've got to capitalize on it and demonstrate consistency.)
FWIW, Creighton hasn't made the Sweet 16 since 1974, and Creighton hasn't made the Elite 8 since 1941.

This year, with McDermott playing, was a lost opportunity for them to make a run.

Last edited by ud2; 05-10-2014 at 11:31 AM..
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:31 AM
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Creighton

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
FWIW, Creighton hasn't made the Sweet 16 since 1974, and Creighton hasn't made the Elite 8 since 1941.
ud2, I think it is pretty widely recognized that CU was added to the NBE because of its Jesuit connections.
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  #1968  
Old 05-10-2014, 12:40 PM
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Doesn't hurt Creighton that they average over 16,000, regularly in top 10 nationally in attendance.
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  #1969  
Old 05-10-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
If you don't like it don't read it. I like the current discussion in this thread. It is pretty simple. If you do not like a song on the radio or a show on the TV do you leave it on and whine or do you change the channel?
I understand your point. But to use your analogy, if I turn on a country music station, do I want to hear gospel music? I turn the channel (ignore the posts). I wait 3 days and go back to the country music channel and its still playing gospel music. At some point you say "enough"!

I'm interested in any news/discussion about the NBE and when I see new posts I go look...just tired of going to this thread and reading about anything but.
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Old 05-18-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
FWIW, Creighton hasn't made the Sweet 16 since 1974, and Creighton hasn't made the Elite 8 since 1941.

This year, with McDermott playing, was a lost opportunity for them to make a run.
Baylor really made them look foolish. That was a butt-kicking of epic proportions.
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  #1971  
Old 05-18-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 79 View Post
Doesn't hurt Creighton that they average over 16,000, regularly in top 10 nationally in attendance.
I think more importantly does their fan base travel? Not like the Flyer Faithful. Maybe home attendance helps land a tv game against certain opponents like X did at the Arena. And what tv audience do they attract? Even if you throw in their neighbor Council Bluffs.

Jesuit connections.
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  #1972  
Old 05-18-2014, 09:20 AM
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and that was with the POY.
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:54 PM
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The Creighton fan base generally travels as well or better than UD. It is not just 16k at home.
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:18 PM
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Seriously doubt they have the eastern fan base we do.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:58 AM
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Fans

Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
The Creighton fan base generally travels as well or better than UD. It is not just 16k at home.
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Absolutely! Can't take anything away from there fan base. Lots made it to the NBE tourney!
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Seriously doubt they have the eastern fan base we do.
Perhaps not, but they bought the most tickets at MSG.
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  #1977  
Old 05-19-2014, 10:18 AM
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Relative to what?

Doug McDermott and no Syracuse, no UConn, no Louisville, no Cincy. Total aberration in 2014. I hope they enjoyed losing to Providence. 30% of the Finals tickets went unsold at MSG. Walk-ins probably outsold every school but Creighton.

http://www.vuhoops.com/big-east-news...reigns-supreme


I wonder if they bought more tickets in San Antonio than our Flyer fans bought in Memphis.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 79 View Post
Doesn't hurt Creighton that they average over 16,000, regularly in top 10 nationally in attendance.
Creighton's president is on the Marquette board of trustees. In no small way, the Marquette president works for the Creighton president. That doesn't hurt either.

Creighton has a good program, but they would not have been added had it not been for the politics. Their own merits are somewhat week. No Sweet Sixteens since the tournament started taking at-large teams. They had some really good years, but they also had Dana Altman.

Greg McDermott did a great job landing Doug McDermott. It's clearly the best recruit he has ever gotten. Under any other circumstance, he would not have gone to Creighton. He also probably wouldn't have forgone going to the NBA under any other circumstance. In his last year, he was technically a walk on.

McDermott did okay at Northern Iowa and Iowa State, but not great. He's not going to keep Creighton at the level they've been at over the last two years when he had a team full of upperclassmen that he didn't really recruit (other than his son). I think it's going to be a long time before they're a tournament caliber team again, much less a consistent tournament caliber team.

But, their president is Marquette's president's boss. That's why they're in. Anyone who says it is for any other reason isn't being honest with themselves.
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  #1979  
Old 05-19-2014, 11:28 AM
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It's about Fox

I read Murdock commenting that while he expects Fox Sports to lose a "few hundred million" in its first two or three years....after that it will grow and become profitable.

In my opinion, if Fox Sports profitability does not materialize soon enough, or reach a satisfactory level, that is the sort of thing that may(will) prompt Fox to start taking a direct hand in the "management" of the NBE. If the NBE likes Fox's money they will play ball.

If Fox wants 12 teams UD's chances are just so-so. Chances improve significantly if the NBE ever expands to 14...although even then its not a slam dunk. Really good Flyer performance would likely influence that. We've got to become an NCAA regular.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:30 AM
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It isn't an aberration. Creighton will buy more tickets than most every year. Their fans are known for traveling.

I do agree with brew as to the reason they are one of the ten. But I would not dispute their level of fan support, which is every bit as good as UD.
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Mad Props to UDDoug For This Totally Excellent Post:
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