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02-25-2018, 11:27 PM
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WHY?
I traded in the Chicago Pits for over 30 years. If a trader CHEATED, meaning the next day they denied the trade from another person, when everyone knew that trade was made, they were DONE. No one would ever trade with them again and they left after a month. The only thing you had there was your honest WORD.
It was self policing. WHY in the world would Sean Miller, who makes millions of dollars, is a decent coach, risk that and his reputation and his career?
Greed, Stupity, Always Done it, Can Get Away with it, I'm just saying "WHY"?
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02-26-2018, 07:00 AM
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Major General
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"Always done it" for $500 Alex.
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02-26-2018, 08:51 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era
I traded in the Chicago Pits for over 30 years. If a trader CHEATED, meaning the next day they denied the trade from another person, when everyone knew that trade was made, they were DONE. No one would ever trade with them again and they left after a month. The only thing you had there was your honest WORD.
It was self policing. WHY in the world would Sean Miller, who makes millions of dollars, is a decent coach, risk that and his reputation and his career?
Greed, Stupity, Always Done it, Can Get Away with it, I'm just saying "WHY"?
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
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02-26-2018, 09:25 AM
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Academy Doolie
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Its simple, Arizona expects National Championships and Sean Miller needed top talent to achieve that. Sean Miller has been under some heat the past few years for underachieving tournament time. Its not about the current contract, its always about trying to get a bigger and better one.
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02-26-2018, 09:29 AM
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He has enough money...cheating at this point is all about that internal drive, desire and obsession to not only win, but be able to say that you are 'the best'.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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02-26-2018, 09:46 AM
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For better or worse, I suspect this was considered the "cost of doing business". I doubt Sean was the first, nor will he be the last. Same reason that UNC offered shame classes, anything to keep these prized athletes "eligible" even if the school is doing them a disservice in the long term.
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02-26-2018, 10:38 AM
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In my opinion he knew he was conducting risky business. Why else would your contract have the following outs:
1) Fired without cause he is owed $5M
2) Fired with cause he is owed $10M
Hmmmm.....
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02-26-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago92
In my opinion he knew he was conducting risky business. Why else would your contract have the following outs:
1) Fired without cause he is owed $5M
2) Fired with cause he is owed $10M
Hmmmm.....
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Also can’t think of any logical reason UA would agree to it if they too weren’t aware and complicit in this cheating and greed. SM is just the tip of the iceberg. He had to do it because most/all his peers are doing it. It’s like the entire steroids mess was in baseball.
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02-26-2018, 11:18 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era
...WHY in the world would Sean Miller, who makes millions of dollars, is a decent coach, risk that and his reputation and his career?
Greed, Stupity, Always Done it, Can Get Away with it, I'm just saying "WHY"?
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You left out the age-old excuse for a kid to misbehave: "Everyone else is doing it!"
And, in the sordid underbelly that is major-college, P5+1 athletics, there probably is a substantial amount of that going on. He may have thought, "Well, if I get caught, a lot of other people are going to have to get caught, too.".
Maybe "a lot of other people" are finally getting caught?
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02-26-2018, 11:18 AM
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I love how the talking heads are saying just pay the players! Really the only programs that have been called on the carpet are top 25 programs that likely have NBA players but the other 326 schools have to try and compete with these programs. They Power 5 already get free advertising playing every game on TV, there coaches have national commercial deals and they still need more. These coaches are all put on a pedestal and any serious fan of college basketball has known for years that the it is dirty as hell at the top. If you don't think so you are fooling yourself. I hope the NCAA has the "balls" to do something about this but I know they won't because they are bought by the major networks and shore companies.
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02-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by chicago92
In my opinion he knew he was conducting risky business. Why else would your contract have the following outs:
1) Fired without cause he is owed $5M
2) Fired with cause he is owed $10M
Hmmmm.....
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Speaks to the schools position.
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02-26-2018, 11:31 AM
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From the looks of things, he wasn't "cheating" any more than the 50%+ of MLB players were cheating when they took steriods. Yeah, they didn't want to advertise it, but they really weren't ashamed of it either because there were OBVIOUSLY 5 guys on every team doing it too.
If Player A, B, and C all say "I like the university Sean, but UNC, Michigan State, and _avier are all offering me $100K to go there. Can you match that?" Well you know you're cheating but you also know your competition is too.
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02-26-2018, 07:05 PM
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I think if Sean had asked his dad if he should pay the $100k the reply would've been a slap on the head and a wtf are you thinking!
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02-26-2018, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UdGrad2009
Its simple, Arizona expects National Championships and Sean Miller needed top talent to achieve that. Sean Miller has been under some heat the past few years for underachieving tournament time. Its not about the current contract, its always about trying to get a bigger and better one.
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Not to mention $5M / $10M end of contract insurance.
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02-26-2018, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chicago92
I love how the talking heads are saying just pay the players! Really the only programs that have been called on the carpet are top 25 programs that likely have NBA players but the other 326 schools have to try and compete with these programs. They Power 5 already get free advertising playing every game on TV, there coaches have national commercial deals and they still need more. These coaches are all put on a pedestal and any serious fan of college basketball has known for years that the it is dirty as hell at the top. If you don't think so you are fooling yourself. I hope the NCAA has the "balls" to do something about this but I know they won't because they are bought by the major networks and shore companies.
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Superb thought...I don't see the Flyers, George Mason or Bowling Green on that list of naughty programs. Only the chronic cheaters are on the list. Is there a correlation between agent dollars and winning programs? I do believe so.
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02-26-2018, 08:16 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Originally Posted by chicago92
I love how the talking heads are saying just pay the players! Really the only programs that have been called on the carpet are top 25 programs that likely have NBA players but the other 326 schools have to try and compete with these programs. They Power 5 already get free advertising playing every game on TV, there coaches have national commercial deals and they still need more. These coaches are all put on a pedestal and any serious fan of college basketball has known for years that the it is dirty as hell at the top. If you don't think so you are fooling yourself. I hope the NCAA has the "balls" to do something about this but I know they won't because they are bought by the major networks and shore companies.
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I can't stand that argument, it makes no sense when you stop and think about it. If you pay one sport, you have to pay all sports. That's title nine, folks. How many schools can pay athletes in men and women's basketball, volleyball, swimming, gymnastics, wrestling, track and field, etc. etc. etc. down the line. Not many.
What you'll see if we move to a payment model is a destruction of the non-revenue sports in this country, along with the tens of thousands of scholarships that go with those programs. Good bye chance at a college education track athlete, your sport doesn't raise enough revenue to pay you 100k. The idea that the players aren't "paid" already is preposterous. They get free education at the top universities IN THE WORLD, free room and board, meals, and gear.
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02-26-2018, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer14
I can't stand that argument, it makes no sense when you stop and think about it. If you pay one sport, you have to pay all sports. That's title nine, folks. How many schools can pay athletes in men and women's basketball, volleyball, swimming, gymnastics, wrestling, track and field, etc. etc. etc. down the line. Not many.
What you'll see if we move to a payment model is a destruction of the non-revenue sports in this country, along with the tens of thousands of scholarships that go with those programs. Good bye chance at a college education track athlete, your sport doesn't raise enough revenue to pay you 100k. The idea that the players aren't "paid" already is preposterous. They get free education at the top universities IN THE WORLD, free room and board, meals, and gear.
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Not only that but there's gonna be Title IX issues when the football players get more money than women's tennis
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02-26-2018, 09:32 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Not only that but there's gonna be Title IX issues when the football players get more money than women's tennis
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Ah not really a problem, title IX will just have all the football players punished expelled for sexual harassment or violations of school policies. They hold the real power.
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02-26-2018, 10:06 PM
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Major
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Originally Posted by rollo
He has enough money...cheating at this point is all about that internal drive, desire and obsession to not only win, but be able to say that you are 'the best'.
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Agree..he has enough money.. but the question I have is why would you risk everything you worked for, your reputation, your family? Again, I saw this behavior in the Pits, but these cheaters were known and oztrasized.
So did other coaches know who was cheating all along and never spoke up?
Did administrations turn a blind eye as long as they were winning and the money was rolling in? I don't have the answer, but Pittino and Miller are the tip of the iceberg...fool the NCAA maybe, get the FBI on your back..be worried
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02-27-2018, 08:23 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by chicago92
In my opinion he knew he was conducting risky business. Why else would your contract have the following outs:
1) Fired without cause he is owed $5M
2) Fired with cause he is owed $10M
Hmmmm.....
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If those T&C are truly in Sean Miller’s contract, then it’s written to incentivize bad behavior. To wit:
-If AZ fires him “just because”, even if he didn’t violate the terms of his contract, they owe him $5MM. BUT...
-If he does violate the terms of his contract (oh, perhaps, by arranging to pay a player to come play for AZ), then he gets twice the money?
Sounds kinda bass-ackward to me, unless the objective is to violate laws and/or NCAA rules, and win at all costs...
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02-27-2018, 08:42 AM
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[QUOTE=chicago92;539988]I love how the talking heads are saying just pay the players! QUOTE]
Seriously?? Throw more money at a situation that is corrupt because of too much money? That's like saying "Hey, we have a drug problem in this country, let's solve it by making drugs legal" . . . oh wait, never mind.
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