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  #101  
Old 11-24-2016, 11:06 PM
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I hope I'm wrong but this season doesnt have the same feel as the last 3. I guess we'll know soon enough...
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  #102  
Old 11-24-2016, 11:37 PM
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Some of you are out of your gourds. Given the personnel we have (re: dont have) right now, the fact that we were even "in the game" in the last 4 minutes of the last two matches is a minor miracle.

If you want to keep living the lie as if not having Big Steve, Kendall, Josh (and hell Kostas) doesn't matter, then there's no talking to you. I bet if I offered you the chance to play Nebraska with a full compliment of UD players and Nebraska's three best frontcourt players either in heaven or grabbing pine, you'd say "sure..that would make a big difference!" And it makes a huge difference on our end when we basically have no frontcourt of any kind with any kind of experience or past success.

Sure we missed FTs. Sure the defense was suspect over the first 36 minutes. Sure the defensive rebounding was paralyzing at times. No one is arguing otherwise. But these things tend to happen when your best defenders and rebounders are not on the floor and bench players (bench players are usually bench players for a reason -- they are less capable) are forced to fill in the gaps.

Bench players forced to play starter minutes is a problem for any team. Bench players don't play as good defense, typically don't shoot FTs as well, and typically don't have as much offense to speak of. You know, because they don't start.

To expect Dayton to just casually brush off the massive absences as "no excuses we should still win" is coaching propaganda a coach tells his players, but in the coach's meetings they speak a different language and are trying to cover up Hoover Dam-sized gaps in the weapons they can put on the floor.

Nebraska and SMC should have beaten us by 20. And both seemed well on their way to. Somehow despite not even playing our best with our backup team, we were able to not hang our heads, play to the final whistle, and come within one possession of tying or winning both games. Nebraska will compete for an NCAA bid. They have guards and big men.

Probably 9 out of 10 other programs in the country get curb-stomped in the last two games. We have major holes out there on the floor every night right now. We have basically no rebounders even on the floor. No shot blockers. We are down 4 bodies and 20 fouls. Every single personnel loss creates another hole Archie must try and plug. He tries to overcome rebounding and lack of height by sending another player to to the glass, our offense suffers because we cannot run. We try to run, we get hurt on the boards. We try to dribble-drive to compensate for no conventional post presence to throw it into, we risk foul trouble on our elite players Cooke and Scoochie. He plays those players too many minutes, they fatigue late. He gives them rest, the backups forced into more minutes than usual risk making more mistakes. He's trying to balance a gaggle of angels on the tip of a needle.

Despite the knife to a gun fight predicament we're in, we still nearly pulled two victories out of our rear ends. Rather than lament the losses, you need to be looking at the bigger picture. We should have been as dead as Thanksgiving turkey in both of them -- because at full roster we could have curbstomped either Neb or SMC had THEY been without three top post players. If it affects other teams, it affects us as well. You can walk around like Foghorn Leghorn all you want and put on a good false sense of security, but talent wins games. You need the talent to be on the court. We have too much of it off the court for reasons we already know and couldn't control.

So we have to make the best of it. But any Flyer fan worth their salt thinking we were just gonna roll with the changes and never skip a beat is living in thin oxygen. You're actually doing a disservice to the guys we're missing when you suggest they aren't as much of difference-makers as they are. Pollard is an All-Conference forward when fully healthy. Cunningham probably is too -- and in 3yrs might be the BEST tweener forward in the A10 period. Big Steve changed the game by himself. Kostas was long and athletic.

We are playing a frontcourt of Miller, Mikesell, Xeyrius. None of them have proven anything substantial at the college level yet. To ask them to do what Kendall and Josh can do is just unrealistic. And asking suspect FT shooters to make FT is asking a lot too. The goal of a suspect FT shooter is to avoid getting fouled unless they are foul-drawing phenoms like Kendall that can put 1-2 opposing guys on the bench in foul trouble all by himself. Suspect FT shooters hardly ever become decent FT shooters. Sending the wrong guys to the foul line is bad offense. Some of our FT struggles (not all) involves that. A lot of our defensive struggles involve guys that still dont even know what they dont know on defense.

I can be as critical as anyone about the program -- even particular losses -- but the last two games leave me highly optimistic that there are more wins left on the schedule that I thought a week ago. Because a week ago I didn't even want to count them -- I was afraid the number would be so depressing. Not now. We didn't play nearly our best, but I felt we got better in a number of areas tonight. In both games when we double-teamed and pressed full court, we caused major problems -- against teams with very good guards. This may be the discovery we've been looking for to move forward with. Because we're not going to win conventionally -- not like we would full-squad. We have too many gaps to hide. We have to re-invent ourselves.

How many programs in America expected their top 3 frontcourt players to be ready this season, recruited that way, planned an entire offseason that way -- and ended up losing all three by the second game of the season? Im guessing less than 2 or 3 programs out of 350+.

Instead of asking yourselves why we didn't win the last two games, you need to be asking yourselves why it was even that close. Once you answer that, I think you'll go to bed tonight and sleep with a much better appreciation for the resolve of the guys we're left with. They are not perfect. They have a long way to go. But many did not ask to be in this position either. They are learning on the job. And the remaining studs have just been asked to do twice as much to cover for the absentees. It's asking A LOT. Lack of frontcourt studs hinders backcourt players as much as the remaining bigs.

Take a step back and view the forest from 30,000ft. It's more lush and green than you might think. We keep plugging away, there are some acorns to find.

Happy Thanksgiving.
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  #103  
Old 11-24-2016, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Some of you are out of your gourds. Given the personnel we have (re: dont have) right now, the fact that we were even "in the game" in the last 4 minutes of the last two matches is a minor miracle.

If you want to keep living the lie as if not having Big Steve, Kendall, Josh (and hell Kostas) doesn't matter, then there's no talking to you. I bet if I offered you the chance to play Nebraska with a full compliment of UD players and Nebraska's three best frontcourt players either in heaven or grabbing pine, you'd say "sure..that would make a big difference!" And it makes a huge difference on our end when we basically have no frontcourt of any kind with any kind of experience or past success.

Sure we missed FTs. Sure the defense was suspect over the first 36 minutes. Sure the defensive rebounding was paralyzing at times. No one is arguing otherwise. But these things tend to happen when your best defenders and rebounders are not on the floor and bench players (bench players are usually bench players for a reason -- they are less capable) are forced to fill in the gaps.

Bench players forced to play starter minutes is a problem for any team. Bench players don't play as good defense, typically don't shoot FTs as well, and typically don't have as much offense to speak of. You know, because they don't start.

To expect Dayton to just casually brush off the massive absences as "no excuses we should still win" is coaching propaganda a coach tells his players, but in the coach's meetings they speak a different language and are trying to cover up Hoover Dam-sized gaps in the weapons they can put on the floor.

Nebraska and SMC should have beaten us by 20. And both seemed well on their way to. Somehow despite not even playing our best with our backup team, we were able to not hang our heads, play to the final whistle, and come within one possession of tying or winning both games. Nebraska will compete for an NCAA bid. They have guards and big men.

Probably 9 out of 10 other programs in the country get curb-stomped in the last two games. We have major holes out there on the floor every night right now. We have basically no rebounders even on the floor. No shot blockers. We are down 4 bodies and 20 fouls. Every single personnel loss creates another hole Archie must try and plug. He tries to overcome rebounding and lack of height by sending another player to to the glass, our offense suffers because we cannot run. We try to run, we get hurt on the boards. We try to dribble-drive to compensate for no conventional post presence to throw it into, we risk foul trouble on our elite players Cooke and Scoochie. He plays those players too many minutes, they fatigue late. He gives them rest, the backups forced into more minutes than usual risk making more mistakes. He's trying to balance a gaggle of angels on the tip of a needle.

Despite the knife to a gun fight predicament we're in, we still nearly pulled two victories out of our rear ends. Rather than lament the losses, you need to be looking at the bigger picture. We should have been as dead as Thanksgiving turkey in both of them -- because at full roster we could have curbstomped either Neb or SMC had THEY been without three top post players. If it affects other teams, it affects us as well. You can walk around like Foghorn Leghorn all you want and put on a good false sense of security, but talent wins games. You need the talent to be on the court. We have too much of it off the court for reasons we already know and couldn't control.

So we have to make the best of it. But any Flyer fan worth their salt thinking we were just gonna roll with the changes and never skip a beat is living in thin oxygen. You're actually doing a disservice to the guys we're missing when you suggest they aren't as much of difference-makers as they are. Pollard is an All-Conference forward when fully healthy. Cunningham probably is too -- and in 3yrs might be the BEST tweener forward in the A10 period. Big Steve changed the game by himself. Kostas was long and athletic.

We are playing a frontcourt of Miller, Mikesell, Xeyrius. None of them have proven anything substantial at the college level yet. To ask them to do what Kendall and Josh can do is just unrealistic. And asking suspect FT shooters to make FT is asking a lot too. The goal of a suspect FT shooter is to avoid getting fouled unless they are foul-drawing phenoms like Kendall that can put 1-2 opposing guys on the bench in foul trouble all by himself. Suspect FT shooters hardly ever become decent FT shooters. Sending the wrong guys to the foul line is bad offense. Some of our FT struggles (not all) involves that. A lot of our defensive struggles involve guys that still dont even know what they dont know on defense.

I can be as critical as anyone about the program -- even particular losses -- but the last two games leave me highly optimistic that there are more wins left on the schedule that I thought a week ago. Because a week ago I didn't even want to count them -- I was afraid the number would be so depressing. Not now. We didn't play nearly our best, but I felt we got better in a number of areas tonight. In both games when we double-teamed and pressed full court, we caused major problems -- against teams with very good guards. This may be the discovery we've been looking for to move forward with. Because we're not going to win conventionally -- not like we would full-squad. We have too many gaps to hide. We have to re-invent ourselves.

How many programs in America expected their top 3 frontcourt players to be ready this season, recruited that way, planned an entire offseason that way -- and ended up losing all three by the second game of the season? Im guessing less than 2 or 3 programs out of 350+.

Instead of asking yourselves why we didn't win the last two games, you need to be asking yourselves why it was even that close. Once you answer that, I think you'll go to bed tonight and sleep with a much better appreciation for the resolve of the guys we're left with. They are not perfect. They have a long way to go. But many did not ask to be in this position either. They are learning on the job. And the remaining studs have just been asked to do twice as much to cover for the absentees. It's asking A LOT. Lack of frontcourt studs hinders backcourt players as much as the remaining bigs.

Take a step back and view the forest from 30,000ft. It's more lush and green than you might think. We keep plugging away, there are some acorns to find.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Let's travel back in time almost 2 years and

If you want to keep living the lie as if not having Khari, Detwon,Devon, Jalen, Big Steve, Bass, (and hell Gavs) and also graduating Kavs, Oliver and Vee, doesn't matter, then there's no talking to you.

Okay, got your point, but want to at least show why we had optimism. Archie pulled off amazing things right off the bat and kept going. We all were hoping for similar, and you know what? We've gotten as you say, something fairly good, just 2 losses stings.

Last edited by Smitty10; 11-24-2016 at 11:53 PM..
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  #104  
Old 11-25-2016, 01:09 AM
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Im optimistic myself. But even Archie said what the 2015 team did will never be duplicated again.
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  #105  
Old 11-25-2016, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Im optimistic myself. But even Archie said what the 2015 team did will never be duplicated again.
I kind of took that to mean 7 players(including one walk on), none over 6'6. Not that he can't lose key players and make lemonade out of it.
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  #106  
Old 11-25-2016, 09:46 AM
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Not sure why we lack defensive intensity early on. I think they need to come out in the furious full court press at the start of the game to get their blood flowing. Back off after we find some rhythm.

I thought all 4 sophomores played pretty well. XW finally found his offense. That's encouraging. SM played well and hit some 3s. RM and JC did some nice things. Overall they are definitely growing and gaining confidence.

It's hard for me, but I think Chris is right that we need to adjust our thinking on the season a little bit. Keep in mind the sophomores are playing a huge role very early this season under adverse conditions, after not seeing much playing time last year. They weren't even expecting this in the preseason, so they couldn't practice for it. They are still adjusting to roles against very good competition. St Mary's was excellent and Nebraska was very good and they were hot shooting. The schedule gets a little easier now. Maybe we get KP back in some form. Hopefully our guys can gain some confidence, experience and some wins. Hopefully we are much better by the Northwestern game, then better still by conference play. Then the goal will be to capitalize on the H/A with Rhode and VCU.

Only DD really worries me. He's had experience and past success but we are getting nothing out of him right now. He should be our 3rd scorer (not to mention 1st or 2nd scorer next year) and it's just not happening.
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  #107  
Old 11-25-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
If they had played with heart and guts the first 35 minutes no clawing and coming up short AGAIN wouldn't have been necessary. Moral victories are still losses.

Schoochie had to be under the weather.
That is disgusting. If you were here you would have been proud of our effort after the 7-21 start. Scoochie played his heart out. Bottom line, last night we almost upset a team that had us scrambling to deal with a superior lane presence. And for some time, really good effort won't compensate for it.
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  #108  
Old 11-25-2016, 04:14 PM
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We need to root for Nebraska against UCLA, that would give us a quality win.

Agree flyers played their guts out, were just short a Pollard/Cunningham to take the W.
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