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03-09-2019, 05:48 PM
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Lieutenant General
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So where are we headed
To you folks that follow the roster, recruting etc. What is our trajectory. this year was up and down, what does the team look like for next year?
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03-09-2019, 05:56 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Do you want the John R version?
Or do you want the udscott/maddog version?
Or do you want somewhere in between?
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03-09-2019, 06:06 PM
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My wife asked me the same thing after the loss today. I answered that I don't have a clue. One good transfer and one good recruit, three seniors gone, and only one contributed. Scaife, one of the all time greats coming back. Overall the lack of athleticism from all, but Scaife and the two undersized guards, worries me. You hope some of these kids learn to shoot in a year, but we will see.
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03-09-2019, 06:12 PM
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Lieutenant General
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If you want the truth... it’s not pretty. Green may not be the worst end of game coach in history but she has to be in the discussion. How many times did we get blasted done the stretch? Look at today... doubled up in the 4th. Anyone see plays run for Our two stars? No, just futile drives by undersized guards. Any heart on the boards? No.
And who’s coming in next year? Doesn’t look promising especially since we got no new help this year. Whitehead showed zero today.., nothing. Slow, can’t shoot, yikes. Our rely on transfers isn’t working. Wonder why they left their school, because the couldn’t cut it. Wonder if Coaches used the same clever evaluation strategy they did with Dennis....never saw her in person. I should send in a video of my golf to get my pga card. Never missed a shot!
Here is a real blast from the past:
Udspud
Thoughts on next year2017-18....
Harris, Burdette, Layfield and perhaps Cannatelli are the firm core for next year.
Key questions:
1) Can Jenna Giacone play point guard ( at least good enough to give Burdette more successful rest than she got this year)
2) Who can provide Harris with rebounding and inside defense help?
3) How much more can Cannatelli provide other than a spot up three point shooter?
4) Can SG get Mandy Dennis to play inside at 6'2" (ie rebounds, defense and
put back shots ? (from what I see, she did not play from the second St. Louis game through the end of the season).
5) Will Scaife and/or Wilmoth make a big improvement next season?
6) Can Breem help item #2 above or too short and not quick enough?
7) Can we get an SGA type size and rebounder? (prefer one who can make short shots & lay-ups and avoid foul trouble).
Can we get another "Harris" quality transfer who would be eligible at mid-season?
Answer his question and the where are we going is pretty obvious.
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03-09-2019, 06:50 PM
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Good question. I love coach Green. But she is still establishing her type of player to recruit. Feels obvious, but need more shooting. And that is stated while the true good shooter is graduating. Need to shore up the rebounding problems.
So a LOT to address.
But I do like the fight in the two point guards (even as undersized as they are). And Scaife could be positioned to have an unbelievable senior year. Nice pieces...
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03-09-2019, 06:52 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
Do you want the John R version?
Or do you want the udscott/maddog version?
Or do you want somewhere in between?
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Want an intelligent response, that eliminates option 2
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03-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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Lieutenant General
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And what isn’t intelligent. Everything I said is true. Or are you proud of the meltdowns. Proud of our inability to win consistently although having more resources and history than several in the conference put together, proud of the recruiting of cast offs who can’t cut it. Go back and watch us make the faithful proud today, or watch us melt vs Fordha twice! , VCU the first time, get wasted by Duquesne, etc, etc. And we are very likely to be materially worse next year losing LC.
If players like BradshawWard and Dennis are good enough to start... we’ll that’s an indication of just where we are ! And exactly what and when will turn this around ,........,well Einstein!
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03-09-2019, 07:43 PM
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Lieutenant General
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oh And it’s not not not going to turn soon!!
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03-10-2019, 09:10 AM
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Is Green a bad coach, or is she is good coach for getting us a winning season with little talent? Getting a team with little talent to play great defense is great coaching. She is a good floor coach. Green's player evaluation and recruiting so far are her major problem.
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03-10-2019, 10:31 AM
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Brigadier General
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Guards with size so important to win see if Whalen makes a difference next year. I think the team achieved what they could with the talent level this year no more no less though finishing some games better they could’ve overachieved.
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Mad Props to Barney Sentner For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-10-2019, 01:50 PM
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Brigadier General
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With Fordham winning the A-10 title maybe UD needs to heavily recruit New Zealand. Great sideline shot of Goulding in happy tears on the bench.
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03-10-2019, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Green's player evaluation and recruiting so far are her major problem.
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Is that really true, though? She didn't recruit the non-transfer seniors or juniors on the roster, and has no true sophomores since all those commits bailed when Jabir left.
I don't know who recruited or offered the freshmen, but I think the entire class shows great potential. Of the 3 (Davidson, Skeens, Whitehead), only Whitehead got significant minutes (550, more than Dennis or Chandler) and she did well. Did she make some freshman mistakes -- you bet. I thought Davidson (33 min) and Skeens (63 min) showed a lot of promise. Davidson showed a lot in the post, both in the last regular season and first A10 games. Skeens has shown she can shoot and looks likely to fill Cannatelli's role. Did they sometimes look a bit behind when faced with the speed of the college game? Yep -- they're freshmen. For most, it takes real in-game experience, more than just the last 2-3 minutes of a blowout game with both deep benches in, to really develop at the next level.
So what's the real gripe here, the transfers? Of the 5 eligible this year, 4 began at big name programs and got significant play time, and the other came from a JUCO program that advanced to the NJCAA Championship Quarterfinals. I think both Bradshaw and Fowler have both done fine at PG. Each has her own strengths and weaknesses, but I think they complement each other well in-game. It would be great if they were both 6', but they're not. For Bradshaw in particular, I'm not sure the roster this year had the kind of players that could execute the game that she's capable of leading. I also believe they've faced some unfair expectations coming in to play after Jenna Burdette. Memories are short and many only seem to remember Senior Jenna, who had terrific court vision, shot the ball well, and could carry the team when she had to. Nobody remembers Freshman Jenna who only took 70 shots and who many here commented looked lost in the college game. Had Jabir a better alternative, Burdette most likely wouldn't have gotten the time and experience she did right from the start, and might not have developed into the superstar she was.
You bring in transfers to plug holes in the roster that have developed for whatever reason, and that's exactly what they have done. There are lots of reasons that players change schools, so I think the cliche comment that shows up here about taking some other program's cast offs is uninformed and mean-spirited. To be frank, superstars don't usually show up on the transfer market. Based on their pedigrees, and I would assume previous coaches' recommendations, I'm not sure why any of them would be considered a bad recruiting decision.
Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't.
Last edited by Brad S.; 03-10-2019 at 06:33 PM..
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03-10-2019, 07:14 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Are you arguing that next year is going to be better? That having undersized guards provides cover for our in ability to win? That Davidson’s (“ showed a lot of promise”.... what?? 5 baskets ( that’s one a month!)in a year bodes well for the future? Skeens, more promise, 7 hoops-7! And the transfers all gave us less than mediocre performance.most of these at garbage time, same number as our walk on,
I fear we could be a basket case next year. Maybe we’ll schedule down to play the sick and the lame in non conference.Green has since becoming HC brought in not one player of real consequence.jayla was JJ’s
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03-10-2019, 07:21 PM
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IMHOP, the #1 priority for next season is strength and fitness - especially by the bigs. Our FG% was so historically low because our inside players could not shoot. First, we shied from contact. Second, we threw up slop shots because we did not have the strength nor body balance to properly finish. I sometimes think the ladies need to take ballet lessons just to learn how to properly balance and control their bodies.
Doing the above would also help rebounding. Getting whipped 15-1 (the only board being off a missed free throw) on the boards in the 4th quarter against VCU was an absolute abomination.
I think I can live with Fowler and Bradshaw at the point guard. Does Giacone take over at the shooting guard for LC. Scaife needs to improve her free throw shooting. What will Whalen bring to the floor? Can any of the newbies contribute athleticism and quickness? Which of the returning players will make the biggest improvement? Lots of questions to be answered.
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03-10-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Are you arguing that next year is going to be better? That having undersized guards provides cover for our in ability to win? That Davidson’s (“ showed a lot of promise”.... what?? 5 baskets ( that’s one a month!)in a year bodes well for the future? Skeens, more promise, 7 hoops-7! And the transfers all gave us less than mediocre performance.most of these at garbage time, same number as our walk on,
I fear we could be a basket case next year. Maybe we’ll schedule down to play the sick and the lame in non conference.Green has since becoming HC brought in not one player of real consequence.jayla was JJ’s
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I'm not sure why you seem to be so bitter. The freshman class is Coach Green's only real recruiting class so far. I think it's been OK.
Everyone seems to agree that speed and athleticism is a problem. It's also a different discussion than this one. Poor shooting as a team issue has also been covered extensively.
So let's look at rebounding. By my calculations, Davidson's got the top rebound/minute average on the whole team (.303). That's higher than Scaife (.22), Chandler (.198), Dennis (.246), Ward (.286), or Whitehead (.24). I realize that you believe all but Scaife should play elsewhere, but that's what the stats bear out. I also realize that with only 33 minutes on the season (or 63 in Skeens' case), any stat isn't worth much.
I'm not sure what you're implying with the "garbage time" comment. The transfers played real minutes, with Phillips the least at 315.
Not saying that this team doesn't have some real problems to correct, or that next year's going to be a basketball dream. My thinking that the glass is half-full might be too optimistic, but your glass half-empty, cracked, leaking, and don't like what's in the glass anyway approach doesn't work for me.
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03-11-2019, 09:31 AM
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Lieutenant General
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I think you have very artfully and accurately described my glass. Green has clearly run this ship aground and there is no sign of hope on the horizon.
I’m not sure what your analysis of rebounding offers. Did you see the Last game. We go none, zero contested rebounds, and our vaunted defense allowed 30 points in the critical last quarter. Well done??
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03-11-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
I'm not sure why you seem to be so bitter. The freshman class is Coach Green's only real recruiting class so far. I think it's been OK.
Everyone seems to agree that speed and athleticism is a problem. It's also a different discussion than this one. Poor shooting as a team issue has also been covered extensively.
So let's look at rebounding. By my calculations, Davidson's got the top rebound/minute average on the whole team (.303). That's higher than Scaife (.22), Chandler (.198), Dennis (.246), Ward (.286), or Whitehead (.24). I realize that you believe all but Scaife should play elsewhere, but that's what the stats bear out. I also realize that with only 33 minutes on the season (or 63 in Skeens' case), any stat isn't worth much.
I'm not sure what you're implying with the "garbage time" comment. The transfers played real minutes, with Phillips the least at 315.
Not saying that this team doesn't have some real problems to correct, or that next year's going to be a basketball dream. My thinking that the glass is half-full might be too optimistic, but your glass half-empty, cracked, leaking, and don't like what's in the glass anyway approach doesn't work for me.
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This freshman class is not okay for a team that wants to be a Top25 team. Davidson played 33 minutes and Skeens 63, and all in walkon type time. Whitehead average playing about half of each game and averaged about 4 pts and 4 rebounds on a mediocre team. She really struggled offensively.
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03-11-2019, 12:00 PM
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Brigadier General
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I was looking forward to a fresh start next year, now after reading all of this I think I'm depressed
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03-11-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
This freshman class is not okay for a team that wants to be a Top25 team. Davidson played 33 minutes and Skeens 63, and all in walkon type time. Whitehead average playing about half of each game and averaged about 4 pts and 4 rebounds on a mediocre team. She really struggled offensively.
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You're right. This team most likely won't be a Top25 next year or the season after. My opinion is that the coaching change happening as it did had a big impact on recruiting and probably will take another year or two to level out. I'd guess it'll take at least 2 more seasons to get there. If things aren't really looking up by then, maybe time to go in a different direction.
So good news -- another year or 2 to b**ch about the team!
Last edited by Brad S.; 03-11-2019 at 01:17 PM..
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03-11-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
I’m not sure what your analysis of rebounding offers.
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Probably nothing, really. Just trying to illustrate what I think is Davidson's potential. To put it another way, in her less than 1 game's worth of minutes, she scored 11 points and had 10 rebounds. That's a double-double.
Skeens comes close with 23 pts and 16 boards in less than 2 games, by minutes.
Can they do this next year in more than dribs and drabs of real game time? I guess we'll see...
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03-11-2019, 01:44 PM
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Skeens, Davidson, Chandler - need all three to play better than this year or else it will be a suffering time.
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Mad Props to Barney Sentner For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-11-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Barney Sentner
Skeens, Davidson, Chandler - need all three to play better than this year or else it will be a suffering time.
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I'd throw Ward, Wilmoth and Giacone into that mix as well.
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03-13-2019, 10:41 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Barney Sentner
Skeens, Davidson, Chandler - need all three to play better than this year or else it will be a suffering time.
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Sorry Barney that didn't make sense. Chandler yes but Skeens Davidson play better, better than what sitting the pine. Neither got enough playing time to really evaluate. Agree Ward, Giacone and Wilmuth.
On a positive note all have had a chance to be together as a tesm for a whole year. That in and of itself should help.
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03-13-2019, 10:43 PM
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General of the Air Force
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What scares me about Skeens is that as desparate we were for three point shooting she sat the pine. Where is the deficiencies. Not D1 ready?
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03-13-2019, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
What scares me about Skeens is that as desparate we were for three point shooting she sat the pine. Where is the deficiencies. Not D1 ready?
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Who do you bench? Cannatelli? Scaife? Luckily, none of us who aren't Coach Green have to make that choice.
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03-13-2019, 10:51 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
Who do you bench? Cannatelli? Scaife? Luckily, none of us who aren't Coach Green have to make that choice.
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Got to be kidding right. And here I thought you were basketball savvy. Neither Jayla nor Lauren play all 40 minutes. What you call benching I call getting a blow. Why not try Skeens during one of those blows. Geeeesho
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03-13-2019, 11:01 PM
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General of the Air Force
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You're right it's the coaches decision. When you have more weapons in your arsenal and chose not to use it raises flags. Whitehead is a freshman an she didn't hesitate using her in the game to give bigs a blow. Only she knows why and it's an unanswered piece of the puzzle.
Lauren was used as a freshman with a team full of talent, Burdette, Austria and Hoover.
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03-13-2019, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
Got to be kidding right. And here I thought you were basketball savvy. Neither Jayla nor Lauren play all 40 minutes. What you call benching I call getting a blow. Why not try Skeens during one of those blows. Geeeesho
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Sorry, misunderstood what you meant.
If I had to guess, it might be that her defense isn't quite what the coach would like to see. Generally when Lauren or Jayla come out for a few minutes, the focus seems to be on not letting an opposing run get started, rather than needing to generate points. I think when shooting is really needed, neither one leaves the floor.
BTW, Hoover was gone when Lauren was a freshman -- she was the new 3 point threat.
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Mad Props to Brad S. For This Totally Excellent Post:
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