2016 Transfer Market

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass IMO the use of the grad transfer should only be used to fill a glaring hole, and then only as a last resort. Let the guys who have stayed here and worked hard get the minutes. Pass on Kessens.

I don't have an issue using the grad transfer for depth, but that is a plan B.

[OSU Flyer]

This guy could be a plan b or c too and someone he's showing interest in if we strike out on our top guys

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer He's tall, but 7 of the 12 guys we have on the roster are 6'6 or taller.

And only one of them would I consider a true back-to-the-basket pivot player. Miller is tall, but the jury is still out on where he truly fits in. I don't know much about Cunningham... but think back to our run in 2014. What did we have then? We had 4 guys who could play the 5. Kavs, Gavs, and the 2 criminals. That spot is quite useful.

Is this the guy to fill it? I don't know.

[IndianaFlyer]

I don't either but I trust that Archie does.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DallasFlyer]

@verbalcommits
Former Michigan G Aubrey Dawkins is transferring to UCF. (HT @insidethehall)

Going to play for his dad

[rollo]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...ource=ddn_home

Benzinger leaving Wright State...

[Angry John]

Benzinger can shoot.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer @verbalcommits Former Michigan G Aubrey Dawkins is transferring to UCF. (HT @insidethehall) Going to play for his dad

his PT dwindled as the season wore on and they have some really good recruits coming in.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by THirt Unfortunately, a couple more A10 transfers announced today. Miles Reynolds out of SLU and LG Gill out of Duquesne. I never like to see good talent leave the conference. Reynolds is from Chicago, wonder if he will look to end up at Illinois or somewhere similar. Posted via Mobile Device

excellent guards graduating. They may be horrible next year. Hope they are not in our pod. Reynolds unlikely to go to Ill, he was terrible on a terrible team. Better fit at a small school. Looks like Ford is clearing the decks to rebuild.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by THirt Unfortunately, a couple more A10 transfers announced today. Miles Reynolds out of SLU and LG Gill out of Duquesne. I never like to see good talent leave the conference. Reynolds is from Chicago, wonder if he will look to end up at Illinois or somewhere similar. Posted via Mobile Device

I agree that we would rather keep good talent in the A10. But not sure all these transfers pass the litmus test. This seems to be an unprecedented gaggle of transfers. Arch is for sure being very selective about all these "opportunities". It would be interesting to see where they go, and then what impact they have. The ideal would be like Staten, the basketball IQ of both teams improves.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[cj]

This has probably been asked and answered before but dies a transfer sitting out his red shirt year count as a scholarship the year he is sitting out?

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by cj This has probably been asked and answered before but dies a transfer sitting out his red shirt year count as a scholarship the year he is sitting out?

Yes..

[DallasFlyer]

I know Dayton was at one time involved with Satchel Pierce who is from the Akron area. He's 7 feet tall so he's got that going for him. Leaving VA Tech.

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/sport...form=hootsuite

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Maybe coaches like him as a guy who can back up Big Steve at center... but if Dayton is really after this guy then to me, that suggests either: A) Someone is leaving

This was my immediate thought and I thought of Miller. I hope it is not the case as I believe Miller has potential. He needs to get stronger and keep his head when in the game, but he could be a quality stretch 4 when it is all said and done.

[Buckleyma]

I see an article about Rich "Trey" Molina, 7'0", 252 is transferring from Chattanooga. He is a freshman. I don't know anything about the guy. But, I like the size and the high school stats of average 14 points and 9.4 rebounds. I like the size.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma I see an article about Rich "Trey" Molina, 7'0", 252 is transferring from Chattanooga. He is a freshman. I don't know anything about the guy. But, I like the size and the high school stats of average 14 points and 9.4 rebounds. I like the size. Posted via Mobile Device

Hope that doesn't mean he specializes in or likes to shoot the 3 Ball!

Or maybe that is what we need &^%$#@&^%$

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma I see an article about Rich "Trey" Molina, 7'0", 252 is transferring from Chattanooga. He is a freshman. I don't know anything about the guy. But, I like the size and the high school stats of average 14 points and 9.4 rebounds. I like the size. Posted via Mobile Device

I wouldn't take anyone with the last name Molina. But the kid's last name is actually Kalina. So I can't hold that against him.

[Buckleyma]

Sorry typo, Kalina.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckleyma]

Someone mentioned why not go after some euro players as people have had success doing this? How about the Drake 7'0" 249 tranferring out by the name, Dominick Olejniczak. The utube shows him dunking, big time. It shows average 12 points and 9 rebounds in Euro League and 6.5 avg points with 4 rebounds at Drake. He is from Torun Poland. Scored in his last game against Missouri State, 18 points with 8 rebounds. He is a sophomore. But, they also show him on a NBA draft web site. So, i don't know if he declared for the draft? Again, I know nothing about the kid but I like his size and these statistics. UD fans, there is timber available out there in the transfer market. I have every confidence that Archie could coach em' up. That's three guys that I see of interest, Malik Martin, Trey Kalina and Dominick Olejniczak. Again, you guys no more than I do. I am only reading the stuff on the web.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rollo]

Rumor has it that there are a number of transfers with UD high on their list and that Archie is having a difficult time deciding who fits in best. I guess this is a good problem...

...for the record, I want AJ Harris...who, from what I was told yesterday, also wants UD.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by rollo Rumor has it that there are a number of transfers with UD high on their list and that Archie is having a difficult time deciding who fits in best. I guess this is a good problem... ...for the record, I want AJ Harris...who, from what I was told yesterday, also wants UD.

This is one helluva good way to start the morning. Thanks King

I can help: A shooting/combo guard with the stroke of BRob. And a big body in the Mark Ashman mold.

Id also like 5 million dollars, a Rolls Royce Phantom,a Rolex and a mansion that makes Tom Brady's look like an outhouse

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 This is one helluva good way to start the morning. Thanks King I can help: A shooting/combo guard with the stroke of BRob. And a big body in the Mark Ashman mold. Id also like 5 million dollars, a Rolls Royce Phantom,a Rolex and a mansion that makes Tom Brady's look like an outhouse

Wouldn't a signed selfie with Rollo suffice?

[jack72]

Originally Posted by jack72 Broome has supposedly narrowed it to two, UC and CU. That is Cincinnati and Creighton.

Cane Broome to UC. He averaged 23 pts and was POY in the NEC. He will have two years left.

[DallasFlyer]

Doobie Jenkins is transferring. Nothing to indicate he's a good basketball player, but one of the better nicknames on the market.

http://www.arkansasfight.com/2016/4/...etball-program

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Doobie Jenkins is transferring. Nothing to indicate he's a good basketball player, but one of the better nicknames on the market. http://www.arkansasfight.com/2016/4/...etball-program

With a name like that, aren't his choices limited to schools in Colorado and other states with similar "agrarian" tendencies?
Posted via Mobile Device

[cj]

Too bad Antioch doesn't have a basketball team!!, or do they?

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Doobie Jenkins is transferring. Nothing to indicate he's a good basketball player, but one of the better nicknames on the market. http://www.arkansasfight.com/2016/4/...etball-program

Wonder which ? he gets asked most often?.. Wonder why the Doobie bro will... Keep the Train Rollin ..?

[NJFlyr71]

Scoochie .. Doobie ... Do

[UDMARK]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Scoochie .. Doobie ... Do

Classic!

[DallasFlyer]

@jonrothstein
Washington State's Que Johnson told @CBSSports that he's decided to graduate and transfer. Immediately eligible. Averaged 11.3 PPG.

Stats: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...73/que-johnson

Kid is from Detroit, and likely looking to finish his college career closer to home (as if he could get further)

[Widget]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer @jonrothstein Washington State's Que Johnson told @CBSSports that he's decided to graduate and transfer. Immediately eligible. Averaged 11.3 PPG. Stats: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...73/que-johnson Kid is from Detroit, and likely looking to finish his college career closer to home (as if he could get further)

If he wants to be closer to home, I guess we know he won't be playing on the moon (even though his vertical jump would be out of this world)
.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jerseyflyer09]

6'5 and 40% from 3...seems like an immediate boost and needed piece in the offense.

[UDDoug]

Grad transfers from a P5 or multiple bid conference are unlikely to come here unless they play in the post. Not with Scoochie, Kyle and Charles taking minutes. I doubt Archie gives them a you will get starter minutes commitment. And I doubt they conclude that he will give them minutes over long tenured players in the program entering their senior year.

Perhaps someone wants to play a role on a likely NCAA team with potential to play beyond the first weekend. But that's not the typical mindset of a grad transfer leaving a P5 program.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Grad transfers from a P5 or multiple bid conference are unlikely to come here unless they play in the post. Not with Scoochie, Kyle and Charles taking minutes. I doubt Archie gives them a you will get starter minutes commitment. And I doubt they conclude that he will give them minutes over long tenured players in the program entering their senior year. Perhaps someone wants to play a role on a likely NCAA team with potential to play beyond the first weekend. But that's not the typical mindset of a grad transfer leaving a P5 program.

All true. Que Johnson was at one time deciding whether to put his name in the draft so he's trying to position himself best to do that. I'm sure he wants to win, and that is not to say he wouldn't be a good team player, but he is most definitely wanting big-time minutes and opportunity. Depending what Dayton does with this last scholarship, he's probably more likely the type of kid Dayton might aim to bring in after Scoochie, Kyle, Charles and Pollard graduate.

[jack72]

6'10" Makinde London is transferring from X. He will be a red shirt sophomore. Averaged very little in minimal time.

[lhsgolf19]

There it is

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein · 2m2 minutes ago

Ohio State transfer A.J. Harris told @CBSSports he's considering Texas Tech and Dayton. List is still open. Plans to visit Dayton soon.

Bring the young fella home!

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 There it is Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein · 2m2 minutes ago Ohio State transfer A.J. Harris told @CBSSports he's considering Texas Tech and Dayton. List is still open. Plans to visit Dayton soon. Bring the young fella home!

Harris, A.J. 35-4 478 13.7 32-99 . 3 2 3 16-49 . 3 2 7 19-28 . 6 7 9 2 33 35 1.0 40 0 59 36 1 12 99 2.8

Here are his non-discernable statistics from his freshman year. To help you out, he started four games, averaged 13.7 minutes, his 3-point and total shooting was 32%, but he did have an acceptable A/TO ratio of 1.6. These aren't bad stats for a freshman point guard in the Big-10. I have never seen the young man play, but I do know he had a good resume coming out of high school. I say take him!

[DallasFlyer]

So he's thinking about Lubbock and Dayton. Neither have a reputation for excitement, though if you are really into dust storms, then I really can't recommend Lubbock enough. Of course, he's got family in Dayton. If A.J. wants to be close to family, Dayton's the spot. But if he hates his family and wants to ride off into a desert sunset with a big ole cloud of dust behind him, Texas Tech it is!

[flyrsmedic]

Bring him in. Have him sit Scoochie's senior year. Come in 2017-18, Crosby's junior year with 3 years of eligibility left. A sensible rotation. Still have room for a big 4 or 5 player for 16-17.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer So he's thinking about Lubbock and Dayton. Neither have a reputation for excitement, though if you are really into dust storms, then I really can't recommend Lubbock enough. Of course, he's got family in Dayton. If A.J. wants to be close to family, Dayton's the spot. But if he hates his family and wants to ride off into a desert sunset with a big ole cloud of dust behind him, Texas Tech it is!

He has a ton of family throughout the Dayton area. From my younger days knowing AJ's dad, and his many aunts and uncles they appear to be a typical family. So as you stated I guess he will decide if he wants to play in front of his family or go away and play.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by flyrsmedic Bring him in. Have him sit Scoochie's senior year. Come in 2017-18, Crosby's junior year with 3 years of eligibility left. A sensible rotation. Still have room for a big 4 or 5 player for 16-17.

By rule, he has to sit 2016-17. In case by "have him sit" you were suggesting there was another option. One way or another, they are obviously planning to bring in a PG in 17-18 and it makes all the sense in the world to be involved with Harris. Two possible outcomes -- A) they get Harris B) they put some pressure on the 2017 pgs they are after to commit before their spot is taken.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer So he's thinking about Lubbock and Dayton. Neither have a reputation for excitement, though if you are really into dust storms, then I really can't recommend Lubbock enough. Of course, he's got family in Dayton. If A.J. wants to be close to family, Dayton's the spot. But if he hates his family and wants to ride off into a desert sunset with a big ole cloud of dust behind him, Texas Tech it is!

Realistically, Tubby Smith is bringing back what Bob Knight had going. At TT you play ball and study. No distractions.

"Over the course of a storied 37-year coaching career, Tubby Smith has established himself as one of the legends of college basketball. He has been a part of 771 collegiate wins, 23 NCAA Tournament appearances and won the 1998 NCAA championship since he began as an assistant coach at Virginia Commonwealth in 1979"

Dayton is a better choice, but TT is getting to where they are no longer chopped liver.

[THirt]

Tubby rumored to be at the top of Memphis' list to replace Josh Pastner.

I'll guess AJ makes an official visit to UD and joins our Flyers soon after.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer By rule, he has to sit 2016-17. In case by "have him sit" you were suggesting there was another option. One way or another, they are obviously planning to bring in a PG in 17-18 and it makes all the sense in the world to be involved with Harris. Two possible outcomes -- A) they get Harris B) they put some pressure on the 2017 pgs they are after to commit before their spot is taken.

Love that transfer year. Making a student-athlete sit out and focus on his studies and basketball development has served the program really well. I think we underestimate what an extra year of maturity on-and-off the court can do for 18-22 year olds.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by flyer016 Love that transfer year. Making a student-athlete sit out and focus on his studies and basketball development has served the program really well. I think we underestimate what an extra year of maturity on-and-off the court can do for 18-22 year olds.

Whatever the value of sitting a year is, I think you can at least double it for a point guard. Very big advantage for a guy to really know the offense and to get comfortable running the offense with a year of practice before getting game action.

[TerryK_67]

Originally Posted by THirt Tubby rumored to be at the top of Memphis' list to replace Josh Pastner. ....Posted via Mobile Device

I think Tubby has chased the glory and dream of the limelight and found the taste to be rotten.... I would be surprised to see him move from TT. He can be successful there and life is good...
especially if you like armadillos.....

[Sea Bass]

IMO AJ is hoping to get the UD offer. If the Flyers really want him I would be bit surprised if he passed on the offer.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by THirt Tubby rumored to be at the top of Memphis' list to replace Josh Pastner.

FWIW:


http://hoopdirt.com/report-memphis-t...g-tubby-smith/:

Also, according to USA Today, Smith has informed Texas Tech officials that he is involved in the Memphis process and it is believed he would take an offer if it is made.

[PalmBeachFlyer]

Local former McD All-American interested in Dayton. If AM wants him I want him.

[sheg]

"AJ Harris, the Ohio State transfer." I guess I'll deal with it

[307Kiefaber]

Originally Posted by PalmBeachFlyer Local former McD All-American interested in Dayton. If AM wants him I want him.

Who is that?

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by PalmBeachFlyer Local former McD All-American interested in Dayton. If AM wants him I want him.

Um, so AJ Harris is NOT a former McDonald's All-American. He was a McDonald's All-American nominee in 2015 along with Sam Miller and John Crosby. In 2016, there were 750 nominees. Do you remember Ralph Hill? He was terrible. He was also a McDonald's All-American nominee once upon a time. AJ Harris might be great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Dayton is not in the running for an actual McDonald's All-American.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by sheg "AJ Harris, the Ohio State transfer." I guess I'll deal with it

For those who were so incensed that Sibert was continuously referred to as the Ohio State transfer, I heard Charles Cooke referred to many times as the James Madison transfer. That's just what commentators do.

[flyer016]

Harris no longer interested in UD.

"Earlier Tuesday, Harris was reportedly interested in Dayton. Later, he nixed that. 'UD isn’t my interest anymore,' he said."

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...as-tech/nq49W/

He said his main focus now is Texas Tech.

I wonder what changed, whether there is some other news, recruiting or otherwise, connected to this.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by flyer016 Harris no longer interested in UD. "Earlier Tuesday, Harris was reportedly interested in Dayton. Later, he nixed that. 'UD isn’t my interest anymore,' he said." http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...as-tech/nq49W/ He said his main focus now is Texas Tech. I wonder what changed, whether there is some other news, recruiting or otherwise, connected to this.

My guess is Archie was not showing him the love.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by jack72 My guess is Archie was not showing him the love.

Hope it means Chris Lykes out of D.C. or Evan Gilyard from Chicago are likely Flyers.

Probably little connection, but one can dream.

[Atlantic 10]

I read the article in DDN, it seems it's all about me

[Sea Bass]

Archie has always moved slowly in spring recruiting ... and it certainly has worked out well.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 I read the article in DDN, it seems it's all about me

Exactly. It sounds like Harris is basically talking to coaches and asking for a guarantee that he will start after sitting out the transfer year. Archie doesn't play that game.

[Sea Bass]

We have no idea what Harris really wants but when something ends before it ever got started it is probably a good bet there was not mutual interest for whatever reason.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 I read the article in DDN, it seems it's all about me

If that's truly his attitude (and note - I said "If"), then I don't want him here. We had an issue last year where some guys didn't put the team first, and we know how the last 4-5 weeks of last season went. "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" Uh...no!
Posted via Mobile Device

[lhsgolf19]

Gary Parrish @GaryParrishCBS

Tubby Smith has reached an agreement in principle to be Memphis' next coach, a source told @CBSSports. Formal announcement expected soon.

I wonder if it changes anything

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Gary Parrish @GaryParrishCBS Tubby Smith has reached an agreement in principle to be Memphis' next coach, a source told @CBSSports. Formal announcement expected soon. I wonder if it changes anything

I don't think it changes anything about Harris. It seems fairly obvious that someone decided it wasn't the right fir and both parties have moved on.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 I think Tubby has chased the glory and dream of the limelight and found the taste to be rotten.... I would be surprised to see him move from TT. He can be successful there and life is good... especially if you like armadillos.....

And Rattlesnakes. They have more rattlers than Minn has mosquitoes.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by flyer016 Harris no longer interested in UD. "Earlier Tuesday, Harris was reportedly interested in Dayton. Later, he nixed that. 'UD isn’t my interest anymore,' he said." http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...as-tech/nq49W/ He said his main focus now is Texas Tech. I wonder what changed, whether there is some other news, recruiting or otherwise, connected to this.

That article is hard to read. Sounds like a father/son combo that passed through UD.
I I I I I question the advice he is getting.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer That article is hard to read. Sounds like a father/son combo that passed through UD. I I I I I question the advice he is getting.

If you read that one, then re-read this one Harris does sound like a headache. http://www.sportsrappup.com/rapp-aro...etball-exodus/

But you know with as close as Archie and Matta are, Archie probably got plenty of good insight.

[jack72]

Despite what some may think of Crosby, I think he is a great get, and will in two years be an excellent point guard. I think Archie would rather get a freshman next year in order to balance out the classes better.

John's speed and ability to elevate on his jumper is not something that you can teach.

[Sea Bass]

Corey Evans ‏@coreyevans_10
Purdue, Florida, Butler, Creighton, Auburn, Illinois, VCU, Richmond, Dayton, & Cal among those in pursuit for Vtech transfer Jalen Hudson

Hudson was a player the Flyers recruited in high school.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[lhsgolf19]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein · 2m2 minutes ago

Drexel transfer Terrell Allen told @CBSSports he's considering Virginia Tech, Arkansas, UNLV, SMU, Dayton, and St. Peter's. No visits set.

[DallasFlyer]

Alright - so confirmed interest from Dayton in three guys so far: Kessens, Hudson and Allen. I like Allen and Hudson for sure.

Michael Kessens: Alabama, 6'9" forward, grad transfer with 1 year immediate eligibility remaining
Averages: 3.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.6 asts in 16.8 minutes
Noteworthy: From Switzerland, post player (not a shooter, dirty work guy)

Jalen Hudson: Va Tech, 6'5" guard, 2 years eligibility remaining after sitting a year
Averages: 8.4 pts, 2.3 rebs and 0.6 asts in 19.6 minutes
Noteworthy: From Saint Vincent-St Mary High School, decent shooter (35.6% from 2)

Terrell Allen: Drexel, 6'2" point guard, 3 years eligibility remaining after sitting a year
Averages: 9.9 pts, 3 rebs, 3.5 asts and 1.8 TOs in 32.9 minutes per game
Noteworthy: Went to DeMatha in MD, pass-first reputation with good mid-range game, 32.1% 3 pt shooter

CONCLUSIONS:
Archie appears to not be after any one thing specifically - kicking the tires on three very different guys. Kessens would be a big who could contribute a few minutes per game in a reserve role immediately. Hudson would be a guy who could possibly step in to fill Charles Cooke departure. And Allen would be a guy to possibly step in and fill Scochie's departure.

(MY) ORDER OF PREFERENCE:
1) Terrell Allen: I like his consistency as a freshman and he seems like a very similar player to Scoochie. Can give you 15-20 pts when you need it, or he'll just get others going. Also like the idea of a pas-first PG with some seasoning to go with Crosby.

2) Jalen Hudson: Much less consistency but he's flashed some monster games against great competition: 23 points against NC State, 14 against North Carolina and 27 points against Louisville. I like his size and he is certainly in the mold of Cooke and Sibert.

3) Kessens. I like that he could help immediately, but not an impact player. In a use it or lose it situation, I'd take him, but definitely a fall-back option well down the list.

[224]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Alright - so confirmed interest from Dayton in three guys so far: Kessens, Hudson and Allen. I like Allen and Hudson for sure. Michael Kessens: Alabama, 6'9" forward, grad transfer with 1 year immediate eligibility remaining Averages: 3.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.6 asts in 16.8 minutes Noteworthy: From Switzerland, post player (not a shooter, dirty work guy) Jalen Hudson: Va Tech, 6'5" guard, 2 years eligibility remaining after sitting a year Averages: 8.4 pts, 2.3 rebs and 0.6 asts in 19.6 minutes Noteworthy: From Saint Vincent-St Mary High School, decent shooter (35.6% from 2) Terrell Allen: Drexel, 6'2" point guard, 3 years eligibility remaining after sitting a year Averages: 9.9 pts, 3 rebs, 3.5 asts and 1.8 TOs in 32.9 minutes per game Noteworthy: Went to DeMatha in MD, pass-first reputation with good mid-range game, 32.1% 3 pt shooter CONCLUSIONS: Archie appears to not be after any one thing specifically - kicking the tires on three very different guys. Kessens would be a big who could contribute a few minutes per game in a reserve role immediately. Hudson would be a guy who could possibly step in to fill Charles Cooke departure. And Allen would be a guy to possibly step in and fill Scochie's departure. (MY) ORDER OF PREFERENCE: 1) Terrell Allen: I like his consistency as a freshman and he seems like a very similar player to Scoochie. Can give you 15-20 pts when you need it, or he'll just get others going. Also like the idea of a pas-first PG with some seasoning to go with Crosby. 2) Jalen Hudson: Much less consistency but he's flashed some monster games against great competition: 23 points against NC State, 14 against North Carolina and 27 points against Louisville. I like his size and he is certainly in the mold of Cooke and Sibert. 3) Kessens. I like that he could help immediately, but not an impact player. In a use it or lose it situation, I'd take him, but definitely a fall-back option well down the list.

I'm torn between the logic of 'take the best player available' and the logic to balance out the classes.

If we take a player with 2 years left after sitting out, we will have 7 kids in that class. That doesn't make a lot of sense considering just 5 kids at a time obviously can play. Plus it may hinder the underclassmens development and PT. With the current scholarship allocation, we are sort of built to go "all-in" every other year. This year we will be really good with 4 seniors, 2 years maybe not. 3 years we will have 6 seniors, the next year just 1 (as of now). I recognize 2-3 of our guys could transfer at any point and this doesn't matter, however that doesn't appear to be the case.

Part of the reason our juniors were so good this year is because they got quality PT and experience last year and the year before as underclassmen. When SS, CC, KD and KP graduate, will the current underclass men have had enough PT to deliver the same results as juniors that these guys did?

I think we either need to use it for a freshman transfer with 3 years left, hope Tervell Beck decides to come to UD or just not use it at all. But if we aren't using it at all, may as well grab a graduate transfer that can play immediately to get something out of it.

[TerryK_67]

Originally Posted by TerryK_67 I think Tubby has chased the glory and dream of the limelight and found the taste to be rotten.... I would be surprised to see him move from TT. He can be successful there and life is good... especially if you like armadillos.....

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...memphis-tigers

I guess this is why I don't quit my day job! Wait .... I don't have a day job!!!!! retired......

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by 224 I'm torn between the logic of 'take the best player available' and the logic to balance out the classes. If we take a player with 2 years left after sitting out, we will have 7 kids in that class. That doesn't make a lot of sense considering just 5 kids at a time obviously can play.

With so many kids transferring, I am convinced trying to balance the classes is an exercise in futility. Since you can no longer assume any player will exhaust his eligibility at one institution, you cannot possibly know what you need to recruit to ensure balance. No sense even trying. If balance is going to happen, it'll just happen. I mean what are the chances a 7-person class remains a 7-person class? You have to understand that it's just as likely (maybe more likely) that it will end up a 3 or 4 person class.

[San Diego Flyer]

The whole algorithm has changed with regard to balancing classes with transfers in and out potentially changing everything. Gregory dabbled in transfers, but Arch seems to have it reduced to an art form.

He and his staff must be spinning right now with data overload. I'm even thinking he wishes he had two 'ships available at this point.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[OSU Flyer]

Hudson and Allen both sound intriguing to me. I saw some stuff on Twitter that made it seem like Allen could play off the ball too if need be so that could be some nice versatility.

Hudson I think with the transfer year could be a real impact for guy for us. Good problem to have

[THirt]

For whatever it's worth, on Jeff Goodman's transfer list, he has a "top ten" available transfers and lists Hudson as #10.

Didn't he go to Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary's which produced former Flyer Marcus Johnson?
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by THirt For whatever it's worth, on Jeff Goodman's transfer list, he has a "top ten" available transfers and lists Hudson as #10. Didn't he go to Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary's which produced former Flyer Marcus Johnson? Posted via Mobile Device

yeah, believe we recruited him out of high school too

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by THirt For whatever it's worth, on Jeff Goodman's transfer list, he has a "top ten" available transfers and lists Hudson as #10. Didn't he go to Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary's which produced former Flyer Marcus Johnson? Posted via Mobile Device

Interestingly both guys are from programs that former coaches dipped into quite a bit.

Brian Gregory recruited Marcus Johnson from St Vincent-St Mary. Of course, some guy named LeBron played there.

Terrell Allen comes from DeMatha in MD where Oliver Purnell once found Warren Williams. While most PGs are generally regarded as scorers or great passers, Warren was the unique PG who could do neither. Results did not improve years later when Brian Gregory signed Desmond Adedeji to his first recruiting class. Adedeji famously chose Dayton solely because of its proximity to Chipotle.

In addition to those extraordinary talents the school has produced the likes of Adrian Dantley, Mike Brey, Dereck Whittenburg, Sidney Lowe, Ron Everhart, Adrian Branch, Danny Ferry, Keith Bogans, Jerami Grant, Victor Oladipo and many other notables.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[jack72]

Little used X soph backup point guard, Larry Austin, will transfer. Another kid X probably wants to shed for a better player.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 Little used X soph backup point guard, Larry Austin, will transfer. Another kid X probably wants to shed for a better player.

The blue blobs are always shedding. They are disgusting. Best to not pay them any attention.

[UDDoug]

Yeah - Dayton never has anyone transfer out to seek more playing time or to bring in a more highly regarded recruit.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Yeah - Dayton never has anyone transfer out to seek more playing time or to bring in a more highly regarded recruit.

Wait, what? Of course, that happens at Dayton. But I like Dayton. I hate Xavier. Therefore, I say bad things about them. And I take any and all opportunities to crack a joke at their expense.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by jack72 Despite what some may think of Crosby, I think he is a great get, and will in two years be an excellent point guard. I think Archie would rather get a freshman next year in order to balance out the classes better. John's speed and ability to elevate on his jumper is not something that you can teach.

I hope you're right. I'm on the fence. He seems to telegraph his next pass and that has lead to some bad plays. He is unsure of himself as a passer and and I think it could keep him from being a great distributor of the ball.
He has tried some passes which had no chance of getting there, whether it was due to timing or location issues. Or both..
Not saying I believe he won't be as good as you say, just saying I'm on the fence. I haven't seen a facilitating pg yet.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 I hope you're right. I'm on the fence. He seems to telegraph his next pass and that has lead to some bad plays. He is unsure of himself as a passer and and I think it could keep him from being a great distributor of the ball. He has tried some passes which had no chance of getting there, whether it was due to timing or location issues. Or both.. Not saying I believe he won't be as good as you say, just saying I'm on the fence. I haven't seen a facilitating pg yet.

Let's be honest. If he were a PG that would play like a starter for a major program, he wouldn't be at UD. In other words, give him time to improve/mature. As has been pointed out, there is talent there. Of all the first year FR, I think he or XW has the most upside. And, as a PG, his upside (if it occurs) will be more on display than XW due to his role.

[UDDoug]

You don't see too many of those as freshmen at schools like UD. It takes a year or so to adjust to the college game, particularly speed and size. They do what they have done their entire life, and it doesn't work. They get over committed and either throw a bad pass or force up a shot.

Some never adjust to the speed and size. The game never slows down for them and they flame out. For others the game slows down and they become very productive.

Will the game slow down for Crosby? Just like anyone in his shoes, we don't know. He has all the physical tools though.



Point guards and posts have the biggest adjustment. If you are on the wing and your largest offensive responsibility is make shots the adjustments are easier. Trying to evaluate Crosby on game performance is next to impossible. If you don't see practice, aren't close enough to know his work ethic and desire to get better, you just can't tell. Either way.

No different than college to NFL. Quarterbacks and offensive linemen have longest curve. Run the ball or catch the ball, not so much.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shapanud]

@jeffborzello: Alabama grad transfer Michael Kessens will meet with Dayton and Wichita State tomorrow. Visits FIU Tues-Thurs and Stony Brook next weekend.

[DallasFlyer]

Interesting that Kessens is meeting with Wichita State and Dayton where he would be a role player while actually visiting Stony Brook and FIU where he would presumably have a larger role.

[Chris R]

If Wehrli played the same minutes as Kessens, he'd have the same numbers. Ill leave it at that.

[San Diego Flyer]

The offensive production appears to be very similar to Bobby's Junior year for around the same minutes. Kessens' defense could be a swing factor as it appears his rebounding, blocks, and steals give him a slight edge. At 6'9" I think the value meter points to him over Bobby. But then there is Arch's judgement of intangibles. Who knows what crease Arch is trying to seal. Certainly shows he is not sold on the need or availability of another point guard.

[rollo]

We have an immediate need for an athletic center. Maybe Archie is looking for one....or two...

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer Certainly shows he is not sold on the need or availability of another point guard.

Archie knows he needs another point guard 2 years from now. That is why he is recruiting a bunch of 2017 pgs along with the transfer from Drexel. He is not bringing in an immediately eligible PG.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R If Wehrli played the same minutes as Kessens, he'd have the same numbers. Ill leave it at that.

Well, if Kessens came to Dayton, I wouldn't expect him to average more than Wehrli's 14.3 minutes that he logged when forced into action in 2014-15.

Wehrli (2014-15 @ UD): 14.3 minutes, 2.3 points, 2.1 rebounds, 0.4 assists,0.3 blocks.

Compare to what Michael Kessens did at Alabama...

Kessens (2014-15 @ Alabama) 21.2 minutes, 5.8 points, 5.3 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.4 blocks.
Kessens (2015-16 @ Alabama) 16.8 minutes, 3.8 points, 3.6 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0.4 blocks.

So I would say that Kessens numbers would probably be a little better, but you can say they are in the same ballpark as Wehrli. Now the thing about Wehrli is he scored more than half of his points on three point shots whereas Kessens scores basically all his baskets at the hoop on dump offs and rebounds. So the numbers might be the same but they are really very different players.

Wehrli is basically a less talented Sam Miller. Now, Sam Miller is going to be a reserve next year. And he's probably not fouling out of games, so you don't really need a lesser Sam Miller (unless you can get that from a walk-on of course).

So my best guess at the type of player Michael Kessens is would be Kurt Huelsman. Kurt's career averages: 4.5 points, 4 rebounds, 0.3 assists and 0.5 blocks by the way.

Would it be nice to have Kurt as a backup to throw his weight around in the paint when Big Steve needed a rest or was in foul trouble? Yeah, I think it would be. Do I think that's a terrible use for a scholarship for one season? Nope. Do I think it's the best use for a scholarship? Well, it wouldn't be my top choice. Other guys are way more exciting! But Kessens is not supposed to be an exciting player. He'd be a dirty work guy whose role would be to play defense and rebound when Big Steve and/or Josh Cunningham are out of the game.

So the real question to me on Kessens is whether he is an excellent defender. The stats don't tell you that Kurt Huelsman was a good defender but he was. Is Kessens that guy?

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Sam Miller is going to be a reserve next year. And he's probably not fouling out of games, so you don't really need a lesser Sam Miller (unless you can get that from a walk-on of course).

You lost me on this one, Dallas. At one point, Sam was one of the top players in the country in PF per minute. He has the same magnetic appeal for PF that Steve does.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows You lost me on this one, Dallas. At one point, Sam was one of the top players in the country in PF per minute. He has the same magnetic appeal for PF that Steve does.

Ok, well if Sam is playing well enough to earn enough minutes where he is on the brink of fouling out, I guess that would be a good thing. But regardless, I would call Sam a stretch 4. And Bobby Wehrli is a lesser version of that, not to diminish what he has given to the program.

If you can find me a better stretch 4 than Sam Miller, that would be okay, but my point is basically that Dayton doesn't need to use s scholarship on a lesser version of Sam Miller. Kessens is a different type of player, even if the stats might look similar.

Like I said he wouldn't be my choice, but I do understand the interest. Or at least I think I do.

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer With so many kids transferring, I am convinced trying to balance the classes is an exercise in futility. Since you can no longer assume any player will exhaust his eligibility at one institution, you cannot possibly know what you need to recruit to ensure balance. No sense even trying. If balance is going to happen, it'll just happen. I mean what are the chances a 7-person class remains a 7-person class? You have to understand that it's just as likely (maybe more likely) that it will end up a 3 or 4 person class.

I would agree. If you have a difference maker available take him. I'm sure that all of us would take a final four season followed by a year of not making the tournament because the team was so young.

Wellllll, most of us would, lol

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Wehrli is basically a less talented Sam Miller.

Maybe, but I would say he's a "less tall" Sam Miller. I think BW would win the skills competition but I could be wrong. Dribbling? Passing? Speed? Vertical? Defensive position? Hustle? I think the only thing he loses on is height and weight.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Maybe, but I would say he's a "less tall" Sam Miller. I think BW would win the skills competition but I could be wrong. Dribbling? Passing? Speed? Vertical? Defensive position? Hustle? I think the only thing he loses on is height and weight.

Who ya got in the staring contest? And who do you like in the Rock-Paper-Scissors Best of Three? Maybe I am putting too much faith in Sam, but I think Wehrli blinks first, and I think Miller will go rock to crush Bobby's scissors in the decisive winner-take-all third match.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Who ya got in the staring contest? And who do you like in the Rock-Paper-Scissors Best of Three? Maybe I am putting too much faith in Sam, but I think Wehrli blinks first, and I think Miller will go rock to crush Bobby's scissors in the decisive winner-take-all third match.

heck yeah! However, I'm not sure it reflects well that Sam is to be compared to BW. I thought one was a "good get" and the other came to the team as a walk on. Admire all BW did for the team and school, but I don't think he came into the system with a similar expected upside as SM.

[Widget]

What's being lost in this is that no Flyers have announced they are transferring. I'm reading about the speculations regarding team chemistry, but while I hear players from other teams announcing they are leaving, nothing is coming out of the Gem City.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Who ya got in the staring contest? And who do you like in the Rock-Paper-Scissors Best of Three? Maybe I am putting too much faith in Sam, but I think Wehrli blinks first, and I think Miller will go rock to crush Bobby's scissors in the decisive winner-take-all third match.

Unpublished recruiting articles proved BW won the staring contest. I can't share my source though.

Originally Posted by Jeff heck yeah! However, I'm not sure it reflects well that Sam is to be compared to BW. I thought one was a "good get" and the other came to the team as a walk on. Admire all BW did for the team and school, but I don't think he came into the system with a similar expected upside as SM.

I think you're missing the point. I've got far more skills than Shaq. Unfortunately I'm 6'1" 170. So for a 6'9" freshman to have comparable skills to reasonably athletic 6'6" senior, that's not a slap in the face. It's not incredibly complementary but we'll see what Sam looks like as a senior. The "upside" as you say is much different for a freshman than a senior.