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01-15-2020, 01:22 PM
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SLU Thoughts, Comments and Observations
With ~48 hours to chatter before Friday nights’ game at Chaifetz Arena against the Billikens, I thought I’d get some information and thoughts out on the table, as presumably the only Billiken season ticket holder on UDPride. Welcome to what I call my super bowl every year. CAN'T WAIT!!!!
• This game scares me mostly for one main reason – they’ve had 6 days to prepare for us
• But after I got done typing all of this breakdown/analysis, I feel pretty good. LOTS of things need to happen/not happen for SLU to win this game. But, that’s why they play the games.
• The Arena will be raucous
• I expect to see several factions and waves of UD fans throughout the Arena
• SLU really needs this game to get any kind of credibility and consideration for an at-large berth
• SLU will ugly up this game, which they should if they expect to have any chance at all. Just before the season, Travis told me he planned to play more up tempo and run much more. Then the season started and the team’s identity has unfolded differently. SLU is scoring more than they have of years past, but not exactly an up tempo, efficient offense. If they have any plans of playing up tempo with the Flyers, it will be a mistake of gargantuan proportions.
• Travis is in a very precarious situation with the Flyers. If he sends all of his guys to the offensive glass, which has typically been SLU’s best offense, he’s at tremendous risk of inviting the Flyers to run. I think he’ll have to send French and Goodwin to the offensive glass and probably have Collins and Jacobs retreat as soon as the shot goes up. SLU’s had some teams in years past, I think it was Majerus, maybe Crews, but one year they literally didn’t send a single guy to the offensive glass in an effort to slow us down.
• This is a Men vs Boys game, regardless if it’s in their house. They have too much youth, sans Goodwin and French, and we’re simply too skilled to allow them to stay in the game. We must impose our will.
• SLU is a very poor shooting team, not just free throws, and they got worse when they lost Jimmerson just before conference play.
• SLU is one of the worst (2nd to last) free throw shooting teams in the nation, just ahead of powerhouse Army. They’d BE last if Chris Mooney hadn’t decided to start fouling SLU’s only decent free throw shooters, intentionally, with 3+ minutes to play last weekend.
• Hasaan French shoots the most free throws on the team and shoots them the worst at 33%.
• Jordan Goodwin shoots the second most and shoots the second worst at 53.8%. This remains a head scratcher to me, as he shot 69% as a frosh and then dipped to 51% last year.
• The free throw shooting for French and Goodwin has been so poor, that Travis has had to put both of them on the bench in key situations late in games because he doesn’t trust them on the line. This has lead to their best players not being on the floor for situations outside of avoiding getting fouled and has hurt them. If Travis has to burn a couple of timeouts to thwart impending runs, then he’ll be hard pressed to control those situations late in the game.
• Goodwin is flat out a junkyard dog. One of the most underrated guards in the league and arguably the best rebounding guard in the NATION at 10.5/game. He gets the majority of his points within 10 feet of the basket, with majority of those coming on offensive stickbacks. He’s an average shooter at best (31%3P), but he’s only made 12 on the season. If you isolate him, SLU has no chance of winning this game. We’ll need a dedicated and disciplined defender on Goodwin. My money says a mix of Mikesell, Landers and maybe Chatman (concerned Goodwin would have his way with Chatman around the basket).
• French is a beast of a man at 6’7”/245. Decent left handed touch around the rim and runs the floor well. He’s a deplorable free throw shooter and if you have the depth to do so, you can choose to foul him rather than give up an easy two or high percentage shot if he catches it within 5 feet of the rim and has a good angle. When/if SLU is in the one and one and French catches it, you have the liberty to put him on the line and foul him “intentionally”. Most of the time it’s been as good as a turnover. I’m not suggesting this tactic, but know that it’s there depending on how the game unfolds. I see Obi and Jordy on French, with some Mikesell and Landers probably.
• Jimmy Bell Jr. is a 6”10” 270 pound man who has lost ~40 pounds the last 8 months. He’s kind of turned the corner the last few games and had some nice games. His footwork remains a work in progress, as it’s slow and awkward. Really good matchup for Jordy in a game like this.
• Javonte Perkins is a slender 6’6” Junior averaging ~11 points/game. He shoots the three ball at a paltry 23% but he shoots it like he’s at 40%. He takes more than any other player on the team. I see Mikesell and Ibi on Perkins most often.
• Yuri Collins is a firecracker who can breakdown his defender and get into the paint at most anytime. But he’s not a scorer or finisher and he’s almost always looking to pass. Play the pass unless he has a decent lane all the way to the basket. Averages ~5 points and ~5/6 assists per game. I see a lot of Chatman and probably some Cohill.
• Demarius Jacobs is a 6’2” sophomore and probably SLU’s best 3 point option at 35%. Averages 7.5 points/game I see Crutcher matched up with him and teaching the underclassman a few things.
• Tay Weaver 5’10” grad transfer (I think) from EKU. Only other legit 3-point threat at 36%. Averages 3.5 points in ~14min/game.
• Terrence Hargrove Jr. is a 6’4” frosh who gets ~10/11 minutes per game. Averages ~6 points, but has only eclipsed that 3 times. He had 27 against DII Maryville in a game French didn’t play. He does a lot of dirty work and is a scrappy, emotional player. Mikesell, Landers and Ibi will match with him, although Matos could too.
• Fred Thatch Jr. hasn’t played in like 10 games, since they beat Boston College. He was getting like 20 min/game the first 4 or 5 games, scored double figures twice. But he’s gotten some illness that’s had him in street clothes most recently. My best sources (former players and some announcers) really haven’t been able describe it or share an official diagnosis. It’s unlikely we see him, but if suits up and plays he could be a significant contributor. He was in their regular rotation last year.
Last edited by SLUFLYER; 01-15-2020 at 01:34 PM..
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01-15-2020, 01:48 PM
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Major General
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Great positives (with some negatives thrown in to make it less biased). May be we win and then again may be ST L loses ...
Play the game and see how the men vs boys plays out.
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01-15-2020, 02:05 PM
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Personally I’m glad we are playing SLU right after VCU as they have similar ‘backs of the baseball card.’ qualities.
Very physical, defensive minded. They love to throw any old shot up and then crash the boards. While they don’t tend to pressure constantly, they are very physical in the half court. They play a much slower tempo and are equally challenged offensively.
Since we just won against a better team - but at home — playing against a lot of these same qualities, I think we will be more ready for the punch in the mouth than we were last night. If the main 5 aren’t spent physically and mentally, I like our chances but am worried about this game a lot.
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01-15-2020, 02:06 PM
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I think we will see a LaSalle style defense with Obi being pushed and shoved until the refs take them out of it. If we shoot the three decently, we will win in a walk.
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01-15-2020, 02:23 PM
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Other facts (to make us feel better):
SLU is 127th in Offensive Efficiency vs Dayton #2
SLU averages 72ppg vs Dayton's 83ppg
Only once has Dayton scored below SLU's 72-point average and only twice have we scored below 78 points. And not once less than 71 points.
SLU has scored in the 60's EIGHT times and in the 50's ONCE.
SLU's effective FG% defensively is 46th in the nation at 45.3% Dayton is 115 at 47.5%
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01-15-2020, 02:48 PM
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How times have changed!
Remember a few years back when we went into a game thinking with a few breaks and a friendly bounce or two we could pull out a win?
Now, if we get a few bad breaks or bounces, we could lose this game!
Seriously, Flyers are good and it'll take more then a bad bounce to beat them!
Enjoy!
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01-15-2020, 03:10 PM
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I feel like there is no way SLU can score enough points to win this game. They would have to hold us in the 60's minimum to have a chance and even on our worst night I have trouble seeing that happening. But as others have said that's why they play the games and crazier things have happened.
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01-15-2020, 03:27 PM
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Stay close to even on the boards and we win. Probably comfortably.
They had 19 offensive rebounds against us last year at their place.
Nineteen.
Can't let that happen again.
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01-15-2020, 03:40 PM
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I'm not feeling as confident about this game as it seems others are. They are super physical from what I've seen, and French has been a load against us in past years. I would feel better if Chatman was playing better and if Mikesell was hitting his open looks from deep. Going to be a test with a fired-up crowd in front of a national audience on a Friday night - need to bring our A-game.
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01-15-2020, 03:43 PM
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We struggle against physical post teams, and Hasan French seemed to push us around like little kids last year. (at least that's how my memory remembers it). Refs always seem to always be looking in a different direction too.
1. The UD / SLU games are always ugly and never is a "normal" game
2. Low scoring
3. Physical
4. Unpredictable (ie: the worst shooter has a career night)
I hope we pack some defense, rebounding, and plenty of 5 hour energy drinks. We come out flat or tired and it would not be a good evening.
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01-15-2020, 04:01 PM
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Brigadier General
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Keys to the game:
1) Rebounding
2) Rebounding
3) Limit Turnovers
4) Keep Obi out of foul trouble
5) Rebounding
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01-15-2020, 04:18 PM
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Per Kenpom:
Beating the 90th-ranked team on the road is about as difficult as beating the 50th-best team on a neutral floor, which is roughly as difficult as beating the 20th-best team on one’s home floor.
So, playing Kenpom #87 SLU at SLU is the equivalent of playing #17 at home. So, this will be the 2nd toughest game of the year behind playing #2 Kansas on a neutral court.
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01-15-2020, 04:23 PM
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We need 10 hard fouls on French from various folks, primarily Jordy. Get him ****ed off.
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01-15-2020, 04:42 PM
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In my opinion SLU and SLUs style matches up better against us than any other team on the schedule. French is a man-child and caused us fits last year. Goodwin as well. They abused our guards and bigs on the glass both near the glass and on long rebounds.
Obi has struggled against big, strong, burly interior players. So have the Flyers. The two most imposing frontcourts on UD's schedule resulted in losses in both games. Oftentimes the Bills' best offense is a missed shot on a missed shot so they can convert the third shot attempt on a possession. They are going to muscle Obi away from the block and make him take those kind of fading Js in the paint that he missed each time he took them in the VCU game -- which is not his first option or strength.
We have Jordy this year, but Jordy is still finding his footwork. Trey is undersized vs French and the Foreign Legion. From my chair, the way to combat SLU's physicality advantage and avoid a repeat of last year's bloodbath is to not get in a halfcourt game with them. We must RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN.
Look at the VCU game. When did UD hit on all cylinders and look their best? When we got a defensive stop in the run of play and pushed hard in transition. Thats when we went on a 22-0 run. When VCU was scoring and we were forced in inbound the ball against their pressure, then score in the halfcourt, we turned the ball over and did not nearly as good looks at the basket. It will be even more pronounced in a halfcourt setting because I believe SLUs halfcourt D is far superior -- but they are just are even MORE susceptible to being fried in transition because they send so many people to the offensive glass. If Dayton effectively rebound on the defensive end, I think pushing the ball is our only real game plan to get out of this one with a win.
Just looking at the two teams, I would favor SLU slightly in this one because they are playing at home. As someone else said, metric wise it might be the second most difficult matchup on the schedule thus far. And as bad a SLU shoots from the field and from the foul line, you can rest assured they will likely shoot 10% better (or more) in both areas just because of the "teams play their best against Dayton" variable.
SLU will really want this victory and I suspect it will be their biggest and most vocal crowd of the season. No question if both teams play their best, Dayton wins by double digits because our best is much better. But SLU doesnt allow you to play your best and I dont think we're going to shoot 50%+ against that kind of physicality.
If we rebound and protect the ball, we've got a solid shot at the valuable road W. But if its even a modest repeat from last year at Chaifetz, then warm up the bus now.
Were I Ant Grant, I would be showing replays of that game the next two days and showing them how they stole our manhood. Challenge the team to get tougher and show the league we're not just the best team -- we're the toughest too.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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01-15-2020, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Per Kenpom:
Beating the 90th-ranked team on the road is about as difficult as beating the 50th-best team on a neutral floor, which is roughly as difficult as beating the 20th-best team on one’s home floor.
So, playing Kenpom #87 SLU at SLU is the equivalent of playing #17 at home. So, this will be the 2nd toughest game of the year behind playing #2 Kansas on a neutral court.
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Not sure I follow you here . . . we played Colorado (#24 KenPom) and St. Mary's (#38 KenPom) on neutral courts. So both of those games would be "tougher" than St. Louis based on the information you presented.
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01-15-2020, 10:23 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by ud2
Per Kenpom:
Beating the 90th-ranked team on the road is about as difficult as beating the 50th-best team on a neutral floor, which is roughly as difficult as beating the 20th-best team on one’s home floor.
So, playing Kenpom #87 SLU at SLU is the equivalent of playing #17 at home. So, this will be the 2nd toughest game of the year behind playing #2 Kansas on a neutral court.
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Say what? Need the quadratic equation to figure this one out.
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01-16-2020, 08:50 AM
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Just looking at the two teams, I would favor SLU slightly in this one because they are playing at home. As someone else said, metric wise it might be the second most difficult matchup on the schedule thus far. And as bad a SLU shoots from the field and from the foul line, you can rest assured they will likely shoot 10% better (or more) in both areas just because of the "teams play their best against Dayton" variable.
Well if you really favor SLU in this game, you should be very happy as a wagerer- you’ll get a few points. I wouldn’t bet the house.
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01-16-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff
Say what? Need the quadratic equation to figure this one out.
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Or a GED. Move along...
St Louis always seem to take us out of our game regardless of the analytics.
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01-16-2020, 09:17 AM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by Jeff
Say what? Need the quadratic equation to figure this one out.
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I'm on my 2nd chalk board,
and taking my shoes off on this one...)
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01-16-2020, 12:51 PM
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Can talk numbers and analytics all day long. I think we will killed on the boards. This is their calling card. And several guys will risk losing their man cards. I actually fear for some's psyche.
Disclaimer : I made comment to wife during first half of VCU game that it was like we were watching some psuedo-BG lead team... so there is some doubt/baggage in my watching.
But I actually have a overall good feeling. Won't be pretty. And some guys may need a new man card down the road. But think this group has enough skill and grit to squeeze out a victory.
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01-16-2020, 01:50 PM
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Man I am putting money on SLU to win the NCAA Tournament this year, I bet I can get good odds and it sounds like they could be a prohibitive favorite to win it.
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01-16-2020, 02:22 PM
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If there's a Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde team, it's the Billikens. In their last 4 games they got killed by Duquesne on the road, came home and went into OT against UMass and beat George Washington at home by 5 points. Then went on the road and beat up Richmond.
They've beaten Kansas St on the road and lost by 6 to Auburn at home.
But just like other teams we played this season, they've seen nothing like our offense and they will not be able to score enough points to take us down.
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01-16-2020, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Man I am putting money on SLU to win the NCAA Tournament this year, I bet I can get good odds and it sounds like they could be a prohibitive favorite to win it.
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I don't think anybody is saying they're world beaters, but they match up with us as well as anybody. This will also probably be the one game they get up for and actually hit their free throws and shoot better than usual.
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01-16-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
If there's a Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde team, it's the Billikens. In their last 4 games they got killed by Duquesne on the road, came home and went into OT against UMass and beat George Washington at home by 5 points. Then went on the road and beat up Richmond.
They've beaten Kansas St on the road and lost by 6 to Auburn at home.
But just like other teams we played this season, they've seen nothing like our offense and they will not be able to score enough points to take us down.
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SLU has let their bottom feeders hang around dangerously close. They were embarrassed by Seton Hall at Chaifetz Arena and quite intimidated by their size. FWIW, Seton Hall is LEGIT. Once they're completely healthy, I see SH as a #2 seed and strong Final Four threat.
SLU beat KState at "neutral" site Kansas City. And KState is not a good basketball team.
SLU wasn't exactly in a threatening position against Auburn either. After an early SLU lead, Auburn took control with about 6:00 in the first half. Their lead was anywhere from 5 to 10/11 points for the majority of the rest of the game. SLU did cut it to 3 at the 10:00 minute for about a minute, but Auburn quickly added some further separation. I watched this game in its entirety and I never really felt SLU was in it once it got to halftime, regardless of cutting it to one possession at one point.
While they've played somewhat up to some competition in some portions of their games and more often down to lesser competition, I haven't felt this is a jeckyl and hyde team. To be honest, they are who they are. A below average shooting/offensive team who works hard, very blue collar for success, who has a smart coach that needs to rely often on tactical approaches and quality strategy to find an advantage.
Other than their 17-28 3PT shooting performance against Tulane, SLU's been pretty much the same team all year. Just my $.02 having watched them all season.
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01-16-2020, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Just looking at the two teams, I would favor SLU slightly in this one because they are playing at home. As someone else said, metric wise it might be the second most difficult matchup on the schedule thus far. And as bad a SLU shoots from the field and from the foul line, you can rest assured they will likely shoot 10% better (or more) in both areas just because of the "teams play their best against Dayton" variable.
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No way Jose! Every game to date has been “biggest game of the year” for our opponents. Time for revenge for the 3 point bank shot to send the game into OT. (Was there for that one).
Barring a freak injury, we win. Imo’s Pizza for every one!
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01-16-2020, 09:45 PM
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I think the two things you can normally count on in a Travis Ford-coached SLU team will be on full display tomorrow night, specifically:
-Defense and rebounding that are among the best in the country; and
-An offense that is the exact opposite of that.
I’ve said to a few friends that watching SLU on offense is akin to watching yourself get a root canal, sans Novocain. You know it’s going to hurt, and you can watch it as it happens. I just want to get out of there with a W and no injuries.
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01-16-2020, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
...Goodwin is flat out a junkyard dog. One of the most underrated guards in the league and arguably the best rebounding guard in the NATION at 10.5/game. He gets the majority of his points within 10 feet of the basket, with majority of those coming on offensive stickbacks. He’s an average shooter at best (31%3P), but he’s only made 12 on the season. If you isolate him, SLU has no chance of winning this game. We’ll need a dedicated and disciplined defender on Goodwin. My money says a mix of Mikesell, Landers and maybe Chatman (concerned Goodwin would have his way with Chatman around the basket...
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I’m thinking we might see Matos and/or Cohill on Goodwin, if only in 3-4 minute stints. They’re both solid perimeter defenders, and Matos has a good combination of size and speed to be able to force Goodwin out of his game, if only a little bit. As long as Matos is in CAG’s good graces, of course.
Also, Mikesell and/or Landers might be needed for a shift or 2 of defense on French. I know he’s far more massive than either of them, and probably too quick for Jordy. We shall see soon enough.
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Last edited by T-Bone 84; 01-16-2020 at 10:24 PM..
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01-17-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
I’m thinking we might see Matos and/or Cohill on Goodwin, if only in 3-4 minute stints. They’re both solid perimeter defenders, and Matos has a good combination of size and speed to be able to force Goodwin out of his game, if only a little bit. As long as Matos is in CAG’s good graces, of course.
Also, Mikesell and/or Landers might be needed for a shift or 2 of defense on French. I know he’s far more massive than either of them, and probably too quick for Jordy. We shall see soon enough.
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Mikesell and Landers did a great job against the VCU big. French is a clone of that guy, so expect the same. This will be a game we need offense, not defensive stoppers. Unless St L gets hot on shooting, we need to shoot well and run, and outscore them.
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01-17-2020, 02:02 PM
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I'm seeing us favored by 7 with a 82.9% chance of winning around 72 to 65. A seven point game will keep you on the edge of your seat until the end.
Last edited by Fudd; 01-17-2020 at 02:04 PM..
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01-17-2020, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I'm seeing us favored by 7 with a 82.9% chance of winning around 72 to 65. A seven point game will keep you on the edge of your seat until the end.
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Not if it's a typical Flyers 7 point game where we build the lead to 20, and it's down to 15 with 4 minutes to go and they hit a 3 at the buzzer to make it 7.
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01-17-2020, 02:16 PM
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The more I look at who St. Louis has lost too this year, their lineup and the facts and info posted by SLUFlyer to start this thread, the more worried I am about tonight. I feel this is probably our toughest remaining game of the year with us being on the road and all.
Put my doubts at ease tonight Flyers. But just in case, I may start my pregame warm up a couple hours earlier than normal! Sorry to be so worried even with my red and blue beer goggles on.
EDIT- As I hit the submit button to post this, my wife walks in with a case of Goose Island 312. Good pain medication for sure.
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01-17-2020, 02:24 PM
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Pain med?
Celebratory beverage!!
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01-17-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
The more I look at who St. Louis has lost too this year, their lineup and the facts and info posted by SLUFlyer to start this thread, the more worried I am about tonight. I feel this is probably our toughest remaining game of the year with us being on the road and all.
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I didn't need to see any analysis by SLUFlyer to be scared to death of this game. (No offense SLUFlyer, it was great analysis!)
Our weakness all year has been teams bullying us on the boards. That's what SLU does.
We have one Trey Landers.
It seems like SLU has a whole team of them.
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01-17-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I'm seeing us favored by 7 with a 82.9% chance of winning around 72 to 65. A seven point game will keep you on the edge of your seat until the end.
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Good thing my Prediction was 73-65!
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01-17-2020, 03:22 PM
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The closer this game gets, the more nervous I become. I take comfort in knowing that of the 10,000 fans at their now sold out arena, probably a good 3000 of them will be ours. st. Louis physicality is what makes me nervous. Go Flyers!
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01-17-2020, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD
I didn't need to see any analysis by SLUFlyer to be scared to death of this game. (No offense SLUFlyer, it was great analysis!)
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Oh I agree, but SLU went into just great detail (Thank You) I am now a bit more worried about the game. Should be a great test. Looking forward to the happy dance we are all doing on here about 927 PM after our overtime victory
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01-17-2020, 03:56 PM
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BBR usually has a good breakdown of each opponents, today's doesn't disappoint:
https://www.blackburnreview.com/2020...aint-louis-10/
Similar to the VCU game, let them attempt the mid-range shots they take too much of, hit the boards and collect a victory.
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01-17-2020, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Oh I agree, but SLU went into just great detail (Thank You) I am now a bit more worried about the game. Should be a great test. Looking forward to the happy dance we are all doing on here about 927 PM after our overtime victory
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Someone inexplicably scheduled the Father-Daughter dance at my daughters' school for 7pm to 9:30 tonight. So my happy dance at 9:27 will be more about avoiding anyone coming up to me and telling me the score. Hoping for a second happy dance around 11:58pm.
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01-17-2020, 07:44 PM
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Where is Matos?
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01-17-2020, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by flyrsmedic
Where is Matos?
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In uniform, and firmly planted on the bench.
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01-17-2020, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
In uniform, and firmly planted on the bench.
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Thought he might get some PT after Landers picked up his second foul, especially for defense. He must be deep on the bench.
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01-17-2020, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Oh I agree, but SLU went into just great detail (Thank You) I am now a bit more worried about the game. Should be a great test. Looking forward to the happy dance we are all doing on here about 927 PM after our overtime victory
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Students- Check the clock! Any other questions tonight?????
Class Dismissed.
F'ing awesome job on the come back boys!
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01-17-2020, 09:29 PM
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Crutch is clutch
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01-17-2020, 09:36 PM
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Top 10 here we come!
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01-17-2020, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Oh I agree, but SLU went into just great detail (Thank You) I am now a bit more worried about the game. Should be a great test. Looking forward to the happy dance we are all doing on here about 927 PM after our overtime victory
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You, sir, are truly a prophet!
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01-17-2020, 10:30 PM
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CFF - celebratory beverages!!!
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01-17-2020, 10:34 PM
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That had the feel of the Miami of Ohio game where BRob came down and hit the last second three pointer to win.
Both games were massive struggles where we generally played poorly.
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01-17-2020, 10:43 PM
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Just a thought, maybe when playing this team, we should just find the first open three and take it each time down the court. Do the opposite of conventional. Use the 3 to open up the inside. We just couldn't do much on the inside all day and it took our 3s to save us.
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01-17-2020, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OCFlyer85
Crutch is clutch
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Unbelievable. He saved our a$$ tonight.
Pretty good feeling to beat a tough opponent on their floor when you play absolutely awful the first 30 minutes of the game, then scratch and claw your way to victory. The mark of a special team.
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01-17-2020, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joeybaloney
Unbelievable. He saved our a$$ tonight.
Pretty good feeling to beat a tough opponent on their floor when you play absolutely awful the first 30 minutes of the game, then scratch and claw your way to victory. The mark of a special team.
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While this game felt horrible as a Flyer fan for the first 44 minutes or so, the fact we were down 13 with 7 minutes to go to a team that makes a 5 lead seem like 15, came back and won on a dagger in overtime, says a heck of a lot about the intestinal fortitude of our guys.
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01-17-2020, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Just a thought, maybe when playing this team, we should just find the first open three and take it each time down the court. Do the opposite of conventional. Use the 3 to open up the inside. We just couldn't do much on the inside all day and it took our 3s to save us.
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Wouldn’t need to be a three. Just the first decent, open shot, to force the pace. Anything to prevent SLU from getting setup in that stifling half court defense that they play. Certainly worth considering.
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01-17-2020, 11:06 PM
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What a comeback, what a road win. Gutsy.
Not gonna complain too much, but it seems like the game could have been sealed in regulation. Not sure why Crutcher stopped bringing the ball up the floor at the end of regulation. Flyers grabbed the lead, and I don’t remember the exact sequence, but Ibi brought the ball up and dribbled it out of bounds at mid-court (OK, that happens). Then Chatman dribbles around until he gets fouled, misses the front end. Then Chatman dribbles around again waiting to get fouled, misses the front end again.
Then in the OT, Crutcher resumes point guard duties, gets fouled twice, makes all 4 free throws, then drains the game winning trey. Awesome win and totally clutch, but seems like UD could have got the rock to Crutcher to seal it with free throws in regulation. Would have been much less stressful for everyone. Haha
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01-17-2020, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
seems like UD could have got the rock to Crutcher to seal it with free throws in regulation.
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This!!!
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01-17-2020, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
What a comeback, what a road win. Gutsy.
Not gonna complain too much, but it seems like the game could have been sealed in regulation. Not sure why Crutcher stopped bringing the ball up the floor at the end of regulation. Flyers grabbed the lead, and I don’t remember the exact sequence, but Ibi brought the ball up and dribbled it out of bounds at mid-court (OK, that happens). Then Chatman dribbles around until he gets fouled, misses the front end. Then Chatman dribbles around again waiting to get fouled, misses the front end again.
Then in the OT, Crutcher resumes point guard duties, gets fouled twice, makes all 4 free throws, then drains the game winning trey. Awesome win and totally clutch, but seems like UD could have got the rock to Crutcher to seal it with free throws in regulation. Would have been much less stressful for everyone. Haha
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Isn’t hindsight wonderful.
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01-17-2020, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cj
Isn’t hindsight wonderful.
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Not really, I was yelling it as it happened, in real time. LOL
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01-17-2020, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Then Chatman dribbles around until he gets fouled, misses the front end. Then Chatman dribbles around again waiting to get fouled, misses the front end again.
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In an otherwise selfless season where even Rodney has shared the love by getting the ball to the right people at the right time, this was not in character. He had no business waiting to get fouled twice....not when he's statistically the worst foul shooter on the floor....and by a mile compared to Jalen and Ibi.
Not about doubting one's toughness or resolve. But sometimes mental strength is whats needed there to do the right thing and get the ball to our designated foul shooters. I think maybe his pride/ego got the best of him in the waning seconds. As long as AG uses it as a teaching moment for growth, it can be a positive step forward.
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Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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01-17-2020, 11:42 PM
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01-17-2020, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
In an otherwise selfless season where even Rodney has shared the love by getting the ball to the right people at the right time, this was not in character. He had no business waiting to get fouled twice....not when he's statistically the worst foul shooter on the floor....and by a mile compared to Jalen and Ibi.
Not about doubting one's toughness or resolve. But sometimes mental strength is whats needed there to do the right thing and get the ball to our designated foul shooters. I think maybe his pride/ego got the best of him in the waning seconds. As long as AG uses it as a teaching moment for growth, it can be a positive step forward.
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I’m glad Rodney is a Flyer. He’ll have his moments yet to come...
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01-17-2020, 11:46 PM
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01-18-2020, 12:00 AM
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Another tough game for Rodney but to be fair, you could say that about Mikesell, Cohill and to a certain extent Trey. Matos needs to play more. There will be times when we need him (like tonight) and coming in cold is no good.
We were fighting not only a big deficit and a raucous crowd but also the refs. SLU played tough D but a lot of it was just fouling and the whistles being swallowed. Yet every time they even touched the ball in the paint it was a foul. The delayed "flop" call was a joke. He must've heard yelling from the fans and thought "oh yea that's a rule now..."
The game never should've gone to OT. The comeback was complete (and what a comeback it was!). Just hit your throws and don't turn the ball over. On the bright side OT skunk is off!
Great night. Great win. Great Flyer moment I'll remember forever.
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01-18-2020, 12:03 AM
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Played the game in their way.
We came
We saw
We Got. it. Done.
That’s what matters.
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01-18-2020, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns
Someone inexplicably scheduled the Father-Daughter dance at my daughters' school for 7pm to 9:30 tonight. So my happy dance at 9:27 will be more about avoiding anyone coming up to me and telling me the score. Hoping for a second happy dance around 11:58pm.
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Okay, tell the truth, you had to fast forward though most of that mess didn't you?
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01-18-2020, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
I’m glad Rodney is a Flyer. He’ll have his moments yet to come...
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I am glad Rodney is a Flyer as well. He showed us what a facilitator he was in the Maui Invitational and was given props by Jay Bilas. I believe he will learn from this game and realize he can return to that same form he showed early in the season if he is patient and lets the game come to him.
I am of the opinion that he needs to get rid of the mask (with permission from his mother) and maybe his luck will change.
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01-18-2020, 12:52 AM
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Ibi had a bad turnover during that final regulation stretch. Why he was brining the ball up court baffled me.
St. Louis was denying the inbound to Jalen. They wanted Rodney to have the ball instead of Jalen.
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01-18-2020, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Okay, tell the truth, you had to fast forward though most of that mess didn't you?
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Nope, I watched the entire game. I was off on my predicted time by about 40 minutes though. To be honest, my phone blew up about 9:30 - I didn't check it, but I had a feeling it meant something good happened, which is probably the only reason I never hit fast forward. It's 12:56am and my heart is pounding - no way I'm falling asleep anytime soon. I don't even have a beer in the house to calm me down. Poor planning on my part!
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01-18-2020, 12:59 AM
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01-18-2020, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by flyrsmedic
Where is Matos?
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Hopefully finding the transfer portal.
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01-18-2020, 01:04 AM
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01-18-2020, 02:20 AM
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Well...we blew the ears off if Ned Peppers tonight during the win. What better place to see a DAYTON STRONG win!
That was fun!
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01-18-2020, 06:40 AM
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LMAO at the excuses. ESPN.com play by play shows UD missing at least 10 "layups" too, as this article feasted upon...
And Travis Ford acts like it's a great time to be a Billiken because " even with 17 missed FT's and all the missed 3's" he's shocked his team didn't get blown out.
Hey Travis, I got news for you that is the freaking norm for your team. Don't act like staying close because of those things is a positive.
UD played as frightful and terrible a game as anyone could have for over 30 minutes and they STILL had the fortitude to take relentless pounding to get off the floor and decide they wanted AND needed this game. Alot to be proud of yet alot to learn from this game.
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01-18-2020, 07:44 AM
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That might go down as one of the biggest comebacks and stolen wins in UD history!! I can't remember us pulling out a game like that in the past. Maybe we have, just can't recall.
It seems like we would be on the other end of that craziness in the past. Not this year! This is another special UD team! WOW!!!
Go Flyers!
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01-18-2020, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride
That might go down as one of the biggest comebacks and stolen wins in UD history!! I can't remember us pulling out a game like that in the past. Maybe we have, just can't recall.
It seems like we would be on the other end of that craziness in the past. Not this year! This is another special UD team! WOW!!!
Go Flyers!
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Makes me less mad at all the other teams who have lost to SLU on the road - that is a tough tough road win. You need to have a truly good and talented team to win that game. Which these guys really are. Well done fellas
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01-18-2020, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Hopefully finding the transfer portal.
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Very disheartening to read something like this. You realize he's RS JR right? He showed a lot of potential before his injury and with all of our departures next year is in line to get a serious PT bump and may even start. Even if it was possible for him to sit out another year and play somewhere else (it isn't), why would he?
Not saying much since we're only 18 days in, but this has got to be the dumbest post of the year.
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01-18-2020, 08:13 AM
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Captain
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Ladies and gentlemen (and rollo), I present to you Anthony Grant.....
https://twitter.com/JenM_Clark/statu...421948929?s=20
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01-18-2020, 08:13 AM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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Someone posted on espn...
“A10 refs and ESPN 2 B Team coverage...it’s a mess.”
My thoughts exactly right up to the last 0.1 second when Jalen saved the night. I’m sure Rollo’s already sent his crown over - only out on loan mind you - for the next 24-48 hours.
I just never blame the refs for a loss...but this might have been the night if not for Clutch. That 3 second call on Obi was unexplainable. Nothing subject at all...just flat out wrong. And a boatload of others that were subjective and bad.
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01-18-2020, 08:27 AM
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General of the Air Force
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As far as comeback wins is concerned, the only one I can think of that beats this one was The Shot, where we were down (I think) by 11 with under 2:30 to go, and pulled it out on “Schelly to Chapman to Young”.
As far as exorcising the past is concerned, I’m reminded of one of the last scenes from the movie “The Sting”. It’s not enough...but it’s close.
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01-18-2020, 08:32 AM
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2nd Lieutenant
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Last edited by curt; 01-18-2020 at 08:34 AM..
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01-18-2020, 08:36 AM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
Very disheartening to read something like this. You realize he's RS JR right? He showed a lot of potential before his injury and with all of our departures next year is in line to get a serious PT bump and may even start. Even if it was possible for him to sit out another year and play somewhere else (it isn't), why would he?
Not saying much since we're only 18 days in, but this has got to be the dumbest post of the year.
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there was a game this year, where when he came in
and put in back to back 3's... and at times last year,
had some very good no look passes...
I agree, he was showing good potential before his
injury, and will I feel, be a pleasant surprise next
year...
definitely NOT hoping he is looking to transfer...
in any way, shape or form...
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01-18-2020, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Ibi had a bad turnover during that final regulation stretch. Why he was brining the ball up court baffled me.
St. Louis was denying the inbound to Jalen. They wanted Rodney to have the ball instead of Jalen.
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Ibi is a 90% free throw shooter and generally a competent ball handler. I agree that getting the ball to Crutcher is option 1, but I don’t have a problem with Ibi in that situation. He dribbled it off his leg, It happens. Lots to learn from glad it was in a win.
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01-18-2020, 08:44 AM
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General of the Air Force
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That’s a good read, and a good summation. If certain guys on that SLU team could just hit their free throws, they’d probably have 2 fewer losses this season. And I must say that Perkins especially but also Collins were pretty impressive last night. We’re in for quite the battle when Round 2 happens in 3 weeks.
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01-18-2020, 08:55 AM
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General of the Air Force
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It's nice from any angle!
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01-18-2020, 09:08 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
That’s a good read, and a good summation. If certain guys on that SLU team could just hit their free throws, they’d probably have 2 fewer losses this season. And I must say that Perkins especially but also Collins were pretty impressive last night. We’re in for quite the battle when Round 2 happens in 3 weeks.
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A good read except for one sentence:
"The best pound-for-pound student section in the country was electric."
I heard the students had to arrive early to learn the cheers
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01-18-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar
A good read except for one sentence:
"The best pound-for-pound student section in the country was electric."
I heard the students had to arrive early to learn the cheers
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Or the typical BS that says if only they made one more 3 or maybe one more FT or one more layup or UD made one less 3.
It's freaking basketball and you can break down every game you want to by saying if this didn't happen or that didn't happen.
What they needed to give credit for was UD making six straight 3-pointers late in the game.
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01-18-2020, 09:37 AM
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Now if someone could resurrect and post Larry's call of Jalen's shot????
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01-18-2020, 09:46 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
Very disheartening to read something like this. You realize he's RS JR right? He showed a lot of potential before his injury and with all of our departures next year is in line to get a serious PT bump and may even start. Even if it was possible for him to sit out another year and play somewhere else (it isn't), why would he?
Not saying much since we're only 18 days in, but this has got to be the dumbest post of the year.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but mine is that he adds nothing more than a warm body. He’s not capable at this level. He’s a “Crosby”. Let him go where he can play. It’s not here and we can use his spot to find someone who can contribute. Again last night he gave us less than zero-
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01-18-2020, 09:51 AM
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Not to mention Crutcher was fouled before that three, and no call... of course. The refs allowed their bumping, body checking and elbows all night, so why change. The shoulder by French on Obi, before his flop, was so violent French lost control of the ball.
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01-18-2020, 09:57 AM
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Let's spend a couple minutes on the officiating shall we...
Let me be clear: If we lost, it would have been because we deserved to lose. The refs didn't put us down 13 with under 8 to play. But...
This was bad. Both ways. All game.
Two in particular I want to get off my chest.
The foul on Landers with 6 seconds to go.
What?
The dude went directly into Trey, bounced off and fell.
Your bad kid.
That's not a foul at any point in any game. Ever.
But especially with 6 seconds to go, that never and I mean NEVER gets called.
But it did in this game.
Then as the clock is winding down Jalen gets bumped into and moved a couple feet ... no call.
That Jalen could overcome the bump and STILL had that cold-blooded dagger ... DANG.
Dude should legally change his name to Clutcher.
P.S. I will note that one of the worst calls that went our way was when they bailed out Crutcher on a late drive that gave us 2 FT's. It was almost as bad as the late Landers foul call.
Chatman and Mikesell each had two phantom fouls.
Ok, I'm done. Rant over. (I think.)
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01-18-2020, 10:03 AM
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CBS This Morning - National news! I love it.
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01-18-2020, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer
Flyers grabbed the lead, and I don’t remember the exact sequence, but Ibi brought the ball up and dribbled it out of bounds at mid-court (OK, that happens).
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It does happen, but it shouldn't happen with Ibi because he shouldn't have the ball in that situation.
I blame the guards for not being ADAMANT about going and getting the ball.
There are definitely times (especially against VCU) when our guards just don't step up and DEMAND the ball like they should.
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01-18-2020, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD
It does happen, but it shouldn't happen with Ibi because he shouldn't have the ball in that situation.
I blame the guards for not being ADAMANT about going and getting the ball.
There are definitely times (especially against VCU) when our guards just don't step up and DEMAND the ball like they should.
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Someone explain to me why, when one of the guards is being pressured in those situations, they always go 1 v 1 instead of passing the ball up the court? Often a turnover in those situations results in 2 pts the other way.
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01-18-2020, 10:15 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD
...Chatman and Mikesell each had two phantom fouls...
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If you and I are on the same page, one of the phantom fouls on Chip was his fourth, where SLU had the ball in their backcourt, the whistle blew, and the only thing you saw after the fact was Mikesell giving a laugh that said, “Seriously? In this game, you call a foul on me for that?” And it was only a minute or so later that he fouled out.
Also, there was a point late in the game that kind of urinated me off just a bit. Obi appeared to be talking to the ref under the basket while lining up for a SLU free throw. He didn’t appear to be overly animated, but the ref had a look on his face while replying to Obi that screamed “redneck sheriff in the 1960’s”. In my head, I could hear “You might be an ‘All Merican’ where you come from back East, but out here, you’re just another guy in a different-color uniform.” Dude didn’t exactly appear impartial (though appearances can deceiving).
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01-18-2020, 10:28 AM
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Larry Game Winner Call
[QUOTE=Radar;609975]Now if someone could resurrect and post Larry's call of Jalen's shot????
[/QUOTE
https://twitter.com/DaytonMBB/status...70934173773824
Here it is. Not as dramatic as the Roberts call.
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01-18-2020, 10:29 AM
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Captain
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Refs
That foul on Landers with 5 seconds really made me mad. I said to my kids "well, at least there are 5 seconds left so we'll have a chance". In hindsight, that foul sure beats SLU making a shot at the buzzer to win. Thanks Refs for giving Clutcher the chance.
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01-18-2020, 10:33 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
That’s a good read, and a good summation. If certain guys on that SLU team could just hit their free throws, they’d probably have 2 fewer losses this season. And I must say that Perkins especially but also Collins were pretty impressive last night. We’re in for quite the battle when Round 2 happens in 3 weeks.
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SLU May well be the class of the A10 next year. Their two best young players didn’t even play last night.
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01-18-2020, 10:37 AM
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I must be missing Larry's call.....
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01-18-2020, 10:43 AM
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Academy Doolie
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The video speaks for itself, the students appear to be invested:
https://t.co/OynfNr3ExW
GO FLYERS!!!!
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01-18-2020, 10:44 AM
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Brigadier General
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John Bedell has it... not sure if this link will work:
https://twitter.com/jbedellwhio/stat...004795393?s=21
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01-18-2020, 10:46 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
SLU May well be the class of the A10 next year. Their two best young players didn’t even play last night.
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Yeah, I was impressed by what I saw of Thatch last year, and based on the stats, Jimmerson appears to be the real deal. Add those 2 to Perkins and Collins, and that makes for a lineup with a lot of potential.
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01-18-2020, 11:02 AM
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Jalen made SC Top 10 as no. 4. Ibi made no. 10 in a supporting role.
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