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  #1  
Old 09-04-2019, 03:56 PM
pmcmullen pmcmullen is offline
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2019 Roster discussion

I didn't see a forum that has remained very dedicated to the discussion of our team as a whole, including our new faces. But, I thought this was an interesting article with some decent predictions about how our guys will fit together.

https://www.a10talk.com/2019-20-rost...dayton-flyers/
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:26 PM
Flyer14 Flyer14 is offline
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Would be shocked to see Matos starting over Cohill but I guess we'll see
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:04 PM
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With AG's penchant for defense I wouldn't be shocked to see either Cohill or Matos start
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:48 AM
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I doubt very much that Cohill or Matos starts. Best guess is one of the two following

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin
TShimanga

or

Crutcher
Chatman
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

A lot will depend on matchups with the other team. If they have a true 5, I expect TShimanga will get the start.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:06 AM
Bigtimeflyersguy Bigtimeflyersguy is offline
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I doubt very much that Cohill or Matos starts. Best guess is one of the two following

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin
TShimanga

or

Crutcher
Chatman
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

A lot will depend on matchups with the other team. If they have a true 5, I expect TShimanga will get the start.
I agree with this assessment 100%. The starting lineup was my single point of contention with the article.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:16 AM
CT Flyer CT Flyer is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigtimeflyersguy View Post
I agree with this assessment 100%. The starting lineup was my single point of contention with the article.
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Agreed and agreed except that I think his statement that Obi and Ibi are the only two with guaranteed starting spots was wrong too because I think Crutcher starts, no matter how good Chatman is...at least at the beginning of the season.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I doubt very much that Cohill or Matos starts. Best guess is one of the two following

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin
TShimanga

or

Crutcher
Chatman
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

A lot will depend on matchups with the other team. If they have a true 5, I expect TShimanga will get the start.
TXFlyerFan: I think you have got this correct on where the bulk of the minutes will come from on the roster. As fans, we need to encourage (clap and cheer) the other guys as well; as the whole team will be required. I think that the season will be made in the early part of the year, especially in the Maui tournament. If we succeed in the out-of-conference play then all the boats will be floating high on the tide. A team feeling that success could be like a steam train during the conference play. Success sets a mood.
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I doubt very much that Cohill or Matos starts. Best guess is one of the two following

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin
TShimanga

or

Crutcher
Chatman
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

A lot will depend on matchups with the other team. If they have a true 5, I expect TShimanga will get the start.
With the added depth at guard, I see a lot of value having Mikesell at the 4. If Jordy starts at the 5, I think Mikesell is the first off the bench.

Crutcher
Chatman
Watson
Toppin
TShimanga
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:30 AM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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I would be shocked if Cohill starts.

Nice to see basketball discussion threads. Hopefully these will soon flush out the political threads.
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Old 09-05-2019, 11:31 AM
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I assume you guys are talking about who starts the first game. If not, you need to qualify who you are citing as the starting lineup.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:58 PM
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I do not think it will matter much who starts . I think this year it will be down to matchups for particular teams and for once we have the players for that to work well.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2019, 02:08 PM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Definitely doesn't matter who starts, but in my opinion, 4 are clear. It's the 5th player who I have no idea that will round out the starting 5.

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

Sharpie these guys in.

My guess as the 5th? In order of chances IMO:
Landers
Chatman
Matos
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
TXFlyerFan: I think you have got this correct on where the bulk of the minutes will come from on the roster. As fans, we need to encourage (clap and cheer) the other guys as well; as the whole team will be required. I think that the season will be made in the early part of the year, especially in the Maui tournament. If we succeed in the out-of-conference play then all the boats will be floating high on the tide. A team feeling that success could be like a steam train during the conference play. Success sets a mood.
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I agree. In the end, I'm not sure it "matters" who is starting. Everyone needs to contribute, and will earn their minutes in practice and game. I don't think it matters if the new guys start or come off the bench, we will need every minute of everyone on the team this year.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:25 PM
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What a pleasure it is to be able to once again have reasonable discussions and disagreements over who will start. All I can say is the guy who wrote the article is a genius.

My wife and I are both looking at the schedule to see how many road trips we can take this year. This should be the start of something great and something lasting !!
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:42 PM
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Given a player with Jordy Tshimanga height and weight he should definitely be starting and playing major minutes. Unless he is a foul a minute machine or can't walk and chew gum at the same time, I do not see how he does not start.
1. In the conference, players who are four inches shorter with the same build dominate the conference play. See how many bulky 6'7" players have success in the A10.

2. Against the high major schools at Maui the opponent will probably have a big man that will need to be contested and only Jordy will have the ideal size to match up with them.
3. For Obi to maximize his potential he needs somebody to take the pressure off him. Only Jordy provides the body that should be able force the big men on the opponent team to play honest. Double team Obi and Jordy would be standing underneath to make the layup.
4. On top of that he should be able to provide the picks both high and especially low to allow the drives to the basket.
5. Presumably he should be able to block the middle and stop the dribble drive better than any one else on the team.
6. His rebounding should be at least equal to or better than the third guard whoever he might be that would play in place of him.

The A10 tends to be guard oriented because the teams have a tough time recruiting quality big men. They play the way they do from necessity. Unless the opponent is running UD off the court, I would expect the Flyers to go big.

Jordy may not end up the the gaudiest statistics but he should make everybody else on the team better when he is playing.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:02 PM
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We will need Jordy inside. Obi will be working on his outside game to make him a first round draft pick. Obi will still play some inside, but i see him shooting more 3's this year
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:12 PM
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Dayton has had to play only six or seven guys for so long that I'm overwhelmed by the possible depth we have this year. The only guy I see playing 30 plus minutes is Obi.
We have little to go on for the transfer players. Except for Chatman, their college resumes are slight. We've heard some good comments about each of them but we'll have to wait and see how they mesh as a squad.
I haven't said this for about 40 years but with this depth, Dayton could pressure the whole game with numerous guys playing about 20 minutes. That could keep everyone reasonably happy about playing time. We can now match up with either size and strength or size and quickness. That's a nice position for
for the coach and fan.
At 72 I'm running out of time but this team could be special.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Definitely doesn't matter who starts, but in my opinion, 4 are clear. It's the 5th player who I have no idea that will round out the starting 5.

Crutcher
Watson
Mikesell
Toppin

Sharpie these guys in.

My guess as the 5th? In order of chances IMO:
Landers
Chatman
Matos
Agree with the first 4 being locks. If I had to bet it's Jordy or Chatman that get the nod.

The only scholarship guy with a lower chance of starting than Landers is Moulaye Sissoko. While I love Lander's effort, he is my 10th guy to start.

Last edited by EliteEight; 09-05-2019 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sabo2 View Post
Dayton has had to play only six or seven guys for so long that I'm overwhelmed by the possible depth we have this year. The only guy I see playing 30 plus minutes is Obi.
We have little to go on for the transfer players. Except for Chatman, their college resumes are slight. We've heard some good comments about each of them but we'll have to wait and see how they mesh as a squad.
I haven't said this for about 40 years but with this depth, Dayton could pressure the whole game with numerous guys playing about 20 minutes. That could keep everyone reasonably happy about playing time. We can now match up with either size and strength or size and quickness. That's a nice position for
for the coach and fan.
At 72 I'm running out of time but this team could be special.
Plenty of time Sabo. Don't say that.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:36 PM
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So I just sat down to figure out how many minutes everyone will get this season and it adds up to a total of 348 minutes per game. Did I mess up somewhere? Hopefully AG can keep all happy minutes wise (unless my math does indeed work out)

Seriously a very interesting season coming up with what appears on paper to be nice depth at almost every position for a change. Hoping the team has the right chemistry with all the new faces as this could be a very special year where we surprise a few of the BB experts of the world.

I look for Cohill to surprise many this season, and if Chatman and Watson live up to their billing, it will give us 4 good guards in the rotation.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:23 PM
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And when will we find out about whether Chase is eligible in at the start or only after Jan 1? He's my wild card this year.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:34 PM
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Iím taking a different approach. Rather than looking at minutes, Iíd rather understand what AG needs from each player for this team to be successful.

Defenders: Chatman, Matos, Cohill could all be stoppers on the outside. Jordy should help by being a rim protector. Obi could also get his share of blocks

Rebounding: Obi, Jordy, Trey, and maybe Mikesell should be our best rebounders. Who is our best offensive rebounder? Iíd say Trey. Perhaps Johnson? All accounts lead me to believe he has quick hops which is important for O boards.

Floor game: Mikesell leads the pack. Obviously Crutcher as a point guard/distributor. Iím inclined to think Chatman could be important here too. Trey as a senior could be a steadying influence late in games.

Ball ďsteadinessĒ: Crutcher and Mikesell rarely turn it over. Iíd hope AG has confidence in Chatman to not turn it over

Free throw shooting: Mikesell and Crutcher were strong last year. Obi has a nice FT stroke. The transfers are a little unknown here

Dribble drive (finish or kick out to open big man underneath or a 3 pt. shot): Obviously Crutcher. I see Cohill as a great option here as well. Chatman based on his statistics at UT Chatt? Maybe Matos or Watson?

Outside shooting: I think AG needs Watson to be a sharpshooter. Iíve read he is. Hopefully Crutcher is an upper 30%-40% guy. I like Mikesellís form and wonder if he can raise a very steady lower/mid 30% to close to 40%. You know Obi has been working on his shot. At the end of a game, is AG drawing up the play for Watson? This is the area I have the least confidence and is probably the most important.

Energy: Trey needs to bring the energy. I think Matos and Cohill need to be high energy guys as well. Johnson could be a high energy guy too.

Leadership: The team is going to miss Joshís leadership. A three year captain is hard to replace. I think Mikesell, Trey, and Crutcher needs to be the leaders of this team. Mikesell and Trey played for the last team to make the NCAAís. Crutcher will be a third year starting PG. I think Watson could also be a leader given he has already played ina national championship game. You have to think if heís telling the guys this is what I takes to get there, theyíd listen to that.

I think everyone has a role. I didnít call out Sissoko. His role is uncertain to me. My take is he just needs to be a good practice player, improve his game, and be ready to play next year. Iím eager to see the new guys and I include Matos on that list. Other thoughts?
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I’m taking a different approach. Rather than looking at minutes, I’d rather understand what AG needs from each player for this team to be successful.

Defenders: Chatman, Matos, Cohill could all be stoppers on the outside. Jordy should help by being a rim protector. Obi could also get his share of blocks

Rebounding: Obi, Jordy, Trey, and maybe Mikesell should be our best rebounders. Who is our best offensive rebounder? I’d say Trey. Perhaps Johnson? All accounts lead me to believe he has quick hops which is important for O boards.

Floor game: Mikesell leads the pack. Obviously Crutcher as a point guard/distributor. I’m inclined to think Chatman could be important here too. Trey as a senior could be a steadying influence late in games.

Ball “steadiness”: Crutcher and Mikesell rarely turn it over. I’d hope AG has confidence in Chatman to not turn it over

Free throw shooting: Mikesell and Crutcher were strong last year. Obi has a nice FT stroke. The transfers are a little unknown here

Dribble drive (finish or kick out to open big man underneath or a 3 pt. shot): Obviously Crutcher. I see Cohill as a great option here as well. Chatman based on his statistics at UT Chatt? Maybe Matos or Watson?

Outside shooting: I think AG needs Watson to be a sharpshooter. I’ve read he is. Hopefully Crutcher is an upper 30%-40% guy. I like Mikesell’s form and wonder if he can raise a very steady lower/mid 30% to close to 40%. You know Obi has been working on his shot. At the end of a game, is AG drawing up the play for Watson? This is the area I have the least confidence and is probably the most important.

Energy: Trey needs to bring the energy. I think Matos and Cohill need to be high energy guys as well. Johnson could be a high energy guy too.

Leadership: The team is going to miss Josh’s leadership. A three year captain is hard to replace. I think Mikesell, Trey, and Crutcher needs to be the leaders of this team. Mikesell and Trey played for the last team to make the NCAA’s. Crutcher will be a third year starting PG. I think Watson could also be a leader given he has already played ina national championship game. You have to think if he’s telling the guys this is what I takes to get there, they’d listen to that.

I think everyone has a role. I didn’t call out Sissoko. His role is uncertain to me. My take is he just needs to be a good practice player, improve his game, and be ready to play next year. I’m eager to see the new guys and I include Matos on that list. Other thoughts?
I think Chatman will be a solid addition. He shot 78% on 119 FT attempts his Sophomore year. That's pretty darn good (he made 72% as a Freshman).

He was a near 34% 3pt shooter as a Sophomore and the primary ball handler. After sitting out a year, and hopefully playing more as a off guard I'd hope he's up to 37%. His 3pt % increased 8% from his Freshman to Soph year.

Reports are that Ibi is a knock down shooter and very athletic (he set the vertical jump record at Michigan). I bet he's a good defensive rebounder this year in addition to shooting.

Matos was billed as a great shooter coming out of JUCO...we didn't see it last year in a very small sample size but it could be attributed to nerves/comfort. He will be better.

Last year the 3pt shot looked a foot or two outside of Dwayne's comfort range. With it being moved back this year, I'm not expecting him to expand his range by 3-4 ft in a year.

I'm thinking Dwayne will be hesitant on pulling the trigger but who knows. He will be better this year regardless. His confidence will be higher in year 2.

Side note - Really hope we see Trey playing inside the arc this year.

Go Flyers.

Last edited by EliteEight; 09-05-2019 at 07:28 PM..
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springborofan (09-05-2019)
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter View Post
And when will we find out about whether Chase is eligible in at the start or only after Jan 1? He's my wild card this year.
I think it would be some time in September but the NCAA just ruled a TCU QB transfer eligible after their first game and NC State's Braxton Beverley several games into a season. So who knows with them

If he doesn't get ruled eligible, he'd be available for the Grambling game (eligible after the first semester)
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:41 PM
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Logically I wouldn't think Matos would start (or Cohill) but the one thing virtually everyone would agree on is that Coach Grant is a defensive minded coach.

I could see more man to man defense this season this with better depth. If he thinks there's enough offense with Obi/Crutcher and the other two starters I could see him using Matos (or Cohill) for their defense.

Matos did a heck of a job on Butler's Kamar Baldwin in the Bahamas. With guys like Marcus Evans, Kellan Grady, Jon Axel G, Anthony Edwards for Georgia I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Matos plays a defensive stopper role
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:59 PM
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I'm more interested in who finishes.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:34 AM
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Clayton, your plan works if every game goes to 6 OTs.

Buy stock in heart medicine producers.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Iím taking a different approach. Rather than looking at minutes, Iíd rather understand what AG needs from each player for this team to be successful.

Defenders: Chatman, Matos, Cohill could all be stoppers on the outside. Jordy should help by being a rim protector. Obi could also get his share of blocks

Rebounding: Obi, Jordy, Trey, and maybe Mikesell should be our best rebounders. Who is our best offensive rebounder? Iíd say Trey. Perhaps Johnson? All accounts lead me to believe he has quick hops which is important for O boards.

Floor game: Mikesell leads the pack. Obviously Crutcher as a point guard/distributor. Iím inclined to think Chatman could be important here too. Trey as a senior could be a steadying influence late in games.

Ball ďsteadinessĒ: Crutcher and Mikesell rarely turn it over. Iíd hope AG has confidence in Chatman to not turn it over

Free throw shooting: Mikesell and Crutcher were strong last year. Obi has a nice FT stroke. The transfers are a little unknown here

Dribble drive (finish or kick out to open big man underneath or a 3 pt. shot): Obviously Crutcher. I see Cohill as a great option here as well. Chatman based on his statistics at UT Chatt? Maybe Matos or Watson?

Outside shooting: I think AG needs Watson to be a sharpshooter. Iíve read he is. Hopefully Crutcher is an upper 30%-40% guy. I like Mikesellís form and wonder if he can raise a very steady lower/mid 30% to close to 40%. You know Obi has been working on his shot. At the end of a game, is AG drawing up the play for Watson? This is the area I have the least confidence and is probably the most important.

Energy: Trey needs to bring the energy. I think Matos and Cohill need to be high energy guys as well. Johnson could be a high energy guy too.

Leadership: The team is going to miss Joshís leadership. A three year captain is hard to replace. I think Mikesell, Trey, and Crutcher needs to be the leaders of this team. Mikesell and Trey played for the last team to make the NCAAís. Crutcher will be a third year starting PG. I think Watson could also be a leader given he has already played ina national championship game. You have to think if heís telling the guys this is what I takes to get there, theyíd listen to that.

I think everyone has a role. I didnít call out Sissoko. His role is uncertain to me. My take is he just needs to be a good practice player, improve his game, and be ready to play next year. Iím eager to see the new guys and I include Matos on that list. Other thoughts?
Mrs Mikesell is that you?
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:23 AM
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Finishing games in the last few minutes is what wins the close ones, and will be the difference between a good and great season. Chatman and his ft shooting and ball handling will be a huge boost at crunch time. The other big assist will be a deeper bench, so the guys who turn out to be the finishers will have fresher legs.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:10 AM
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When is Chase Johnson Eligible?

Do we know yet?
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Iím taking a different approach. Rather than looking at minutes, Iíd rather understand what AG needs from each player for this team to be successful.
...and what the players need from AG and the coaches. Roster limitations are gone, time to take what looks to be a talented bunch and coach 'em up, especially in-game.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:11 PM
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I'm thinking Cohill, Matos, Chatman, and Jordy will really help AG and staff get to where they want to be defensively... we better start coming up with our own nickname for "havoc" at UD!
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
Do we know yet?
No, they don't. But I suspect they are planning on not having him available until the Grambling game and if he's available earlier, then that's a bonus.

The stupid thing is in NCAA football, they have no problems granting waivers to every QB that didn't win a starting job and left for another school, but other situations, there like hmmm, well, we're not sure, we'll see, uh no.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Mrs Mikesell is that you?
Yeah...I like Mikesell! I think he adds a lot to the team. I also said a few months ago that Chase Johnson may end up starting over him if he is really exceptional. I got bashed for that.

My biggest concern is outside shooting. I think all the other boxes are pretty well checked. Hard to say...there are many unknowns since the team has 5 players (including Matos) that we know little about so far.
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:35 PM
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Would be interesting to see a discussion on who plays the final 5 minutes of each half.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:28 AM
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Prepare for the worst hope for the best

Hope I'm wrong but I haven't seen anything to make think Chase will get eligible before the first semester
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