Bigs

[Gilchrist's Autograph 2]

I know defense (or lack if it) has generated a lot of chatter, but our 4 bigs have a total of 17 pts in two games against much smaller teams - nearly 100 minutes played between them. Is anybody else hugely concerned? What is the answer?
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[Sea Bass]

they were awful tonight and have struggled to finish near the rim. Scott was the only one that was passable. They struggled to finish on offense, posted up poorly and couldn't move on defense. I advocated playing DMO at the 5 at halftime. At some point I would kick two of them out of the playing rotation.

[shocka43]

What Sea Bass said and it doesn't help that your two minute earners were fouling and one lost a tooth...

Not making excuses...but the fact of the matter is for them to contribute, they need to finish at the rim, stay out of foul trouble, and not loose teeth.

[TheSixthMan]

Our bigs are not all-stars but they are not getting help from the pieces around them. The offense is not moving and the defense automatically collapses on our bigs. The bigs dish the ball out to open shooters and they are hesitent to shoot open shots. Someone needs to take over on the offensive side of the court. I'm a little disappointed by Vee's play. He needs to step up!

[Sea Bass]

one of the defensive issues is that the bigs tended to help on penetration when it was not necessary. The defender was angling off the pentration but our bigs left a player (usually at the 3 point line) undefended.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by TheSixthMan Someone needs to take over on the offensive side of the court.

We have a guy who can do that but he spends way too much time on the bench. When Sibert finally came into the game near the end he scored seven straight points to give us a seven point lead and pretty much put the game away. So that is two games he has won for us at/near the end. I'm not sure how many minutes he got tonight but it wasn't enough.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by longtimefan We have a guy who can do that but he spends way too much time on the bench. When Sibert finally came into the game near the end he scored seven straight points to give us a seven point lead and pretty much put the game away. So that is two games he has won for us at/near the end. I'm not sure how many minutes he got tonight but it wasn't enough.

He played 20 min.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by TheSixthMan Our bigs are not all-stars but they are not getting help from the pieces around them. The offense is not moving and the defense automatically collapses on our bigs. The bigs dish the ball out to open shooters and they are hesitent to shoot open shots. Someone needs to take over on the offensive side of the court. I'm a little disappointed by Vee's play. He needs to step up!

I don't see many good passes out of the post to anyone in a good shooting position. I usually see a weak postup, a fumbled entr pass, putting the ball on the floor in traffic, and tipped passes when the ball comes out of the post. The bigs have been just awful.

I do agree about Sanford but will go further. His play has been beyond disappointing. It has been abysmal. On defense he us making Kevin Dillard look like all defensive team.

The offense was hampered by lack of ball and player movement. Too far away to tell, but either the bench or a noncomatose fan near the bench spent large portions of the game yelling "Move".
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[Tony T 71]

Originally Posted by UD62 He played 20 min.

He needs to get more than 20 minutes,IMHO

[SeasonTicketFan]

I look at the big situation differently. Foul trouble is the top problem. The next problem is teams packing it in. I saw St. Francis clog the middle big time. I saw that in all four games. Findlay played zone to take away low post scoring opportunities.

St. Francis scouted Dayton well. They clogged driving lanes and dared UD to shot 3s. When UD threw the ball in low, they swarmed. The obvious scouting report is the UD offense is one dimensional right now. Wing players drive to the basket.

The perimeter players did not seem confident with shots away from the basket. The team is not picking away from ball well enough. Dribble drive needs to free more open shots. Look at the paltry number of assists.

The numbers. 6 assists 15+ turnovers. Only eight 3 point shot attempts.

The offense seems to be falling into players putting their heads down and going one on one. This limits opportunities for bigs to shoot.

Team has not jelled yet. Lots of new faces. Some guys who sat out a year look very rusty. Inexperience showing.

There is room for improvement, but the potential is there. I think bigs will get better.

[dUDe]

Since what Archie is doing right now makes no sense to me I am going to assume that he's still trying to tweak and find what works. I'm hoping he finds it and it clicks soon. I don't get it but I'm hoping he ends up looking like a genius later. Fingers crossed.

[Buster Goode]

If we're talking bigs, then we have to come clean that Kavs play in the first two games has been absolutely atrocious.

[dnutz77]

I know the production isn't there yet, but I believe that trying to establish some sort of inside game is going to pay huge dividends down the road. At some point the offense will get into a flow and the bigs will get easier shots, the lanes will start to open, and the threes will continue to be available. I am glad to see that UD is focused on trying to get looks in the paint rather than settling for threes! Too often, teams "settle" for outside shots and it becomes a case of live by the three, die by the three. I will take the higher percentage shot all day every day. I say keep pounding it in and good things will happen.
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[rollo]

In the middle/late 2nd half, Bucky commented twice about how Kavs had cleared out the low post and was wide open but didn't get a pass or a look. And that's the problem...our wings aren't even looking to pass the ball down low. Yeah, our bigs aren't great, but we have to establish a low post threat to open lanes and make the defense react.

[m21eagle45]

I do not know how Kavs is getting the playing time that he is. He is more than a step slow, he can't finish, and his defense in my opinion has been poor. The only positive has been his rebounding, but even that seems like he only gets the rebounds that come right too him. It is Oliver and Pierre that are left fighting for the tough rebounds.

If JR could stay out of foul trouble, I would feel much better about that post play. But I do agree with the earlier post that DS has been the only one playing passable at the 5 at this point.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by rollo In the middle/late 2nd half, Bucky commented twice about how Kavs had cleared out the low post and was wide open but didn't get a pass or a look. And that's the problem...our wings aren't even looking to pass the ball down low. Yeah, our bigs aren't great, but we have to establish a low post threat to open lanes and make the defense react.

I disagree totally. The entire night they were looking to pass it down low and Kavs was fumbling passes. He had one ball he sent into the 3rd row in the second half because he tried to make a move without securing the ball first. The entry passes to the bigs were not good, but I feel a lot of the times the bigs were not doing a good job at all sealing off their man to receive the pass and Kavs was the worst at sealing off his defender.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by rollo In the middle/late 2nd half, Bucky commented twice about how Kavs had cleared out the low post and was wide open but didn't get a pass or a look.

then there was the time early in the 2nd half Kavs posted strong and had pinned his man under the basket and the pass came in and he promptly dropped it out of bounds.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode If we're talking bigs, then we have to come clean that Kavs play in the first two games has been absolutely atrocious.

Karma.

Bench him.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass I advocated playing DMO at the 5 at halftime. At some point I would kick two of them out of the playing rotation.

Not picking on you specifically, but I hope the people who make comments after every game like "go to the bench and never come back" do not actually manage people. You don't give up on people unless they show moral lapses. (Wait. . . that may apply here)

People struggle in their jobs, players struggle. No one "wants" to fail. It should be pretty rare that you actually have to fire someone. Only players who give up should be sent to the bench forever. Everyone else should show up and get better in practice every day.

I'm less interested in how good the team is in November, we're only going to be our best in March if everyone is pulling in unison. If 3/4 of the team has been dismissed we're not going to be very good.

[number21]

Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys.

We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

[cj]

Originally Posted by longtimefan We have a guy who can do that but he spends way too much time on the bench. When Sibert finally came into the game near the end he scored seven straight points to give us a seven point lead and pretty much put the game away. So that is two games he has won for us at/near the end. I'm not sure how many minutes he got tonight but it wasn't enough.

Sibert should never leave the court unless injured or exhausted.

[cj]

Originally Posted by number21 Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys. We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

At one point late in the 2nd half, about 6 minutes to go, Pierre had a player guarding him for about 30 seconds that was aobut 8" shorter than him. What did UD do?, they ran the offense. The players need to have the ability, and the permission, to ad-lib. Recognize the mismatch, cancel the offensive set, and pound it down low.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Not picking on you specifically, but I hope the people who make comments after every game like "go to the bench and never come back" do not actually manage people. You don't give up on people unless they show moral lapses. (Wait. . . that may apply here)

I said nothing like that. There is no way you can develop anything without giving guys enough floor time together. DMO played 37 minutes, that means the 4 bigs played the same position last night. There is no way you can develop anyone by dividing 40 minutes among 4 players. At some point Archie needs to decide who his 2 best big guys are and go with it.

Right now there are too many guys getting minutes. Check out the +/- for two games and you have a pretty good idea about who deserves more and who deserves less.

Pollard may be a guy that turns into a really good player next year but for now there is no way he gets many minutes, he is simply stuck behind too many good players who need to be on the floor.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by cj Sibert should never leave the court unless injured or exhausted.

His problems are
1) he sometimes gets lost on defense
2) he makes silly turnovers

Hopefully PT (he hasn't play much in 4 years) will cure those issues.

[steve]

Originally Posted by number21 Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys. We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

We got spoiled the past couple years with a true PG that could dribble drive and finish at the rim or dish off to trailers....We don't have that right now...I like Price alot but never ever thought of him as a 25-30 mpg player...He's more of a catalyst that can play D, get his hands on balls, and hit some shots...No doubt that MK is a shell of the player he was but , again, he ain't ever going to fool anybody and learn to jump or get a shot over anybody. He has to get the ball with already sealing a guy off and then finish.....

I'm just shocked at an offense that I thought would be one with constant movement.. Yes, when you have a guy like KD you can clear out and roll to the rim once KD beat his man but we just don't have that player right now..We're hardly screen for guys and I hardly ever see any pick and roll or pick and pop..I've watched more open 3's for the opponents so far this year but you never ever see a quick rotation, reversal, or kick-out to a UD player for a wide open 3...

[steve]

Originally Posted by number21 Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys. We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

AM simply needs to swallow some pride and hire a veteran asst. coach with years of experience...There are plenty of things I've seen in the first two games that are mind boggling that this HC or assts. simply don't see or react to..Maybe they see it but don't react..Maybe they're letting the guys "play through" this as a learning experience, thinking these early opponents are way inferior...I doubt that and hope not..

BB is a funny game and it's only a 40 minute game and a really well-disciplined team can limit possessions..Add in TO's, not hitting FT's, and overall bad shooting by a superior team in ability and man power and all of a sudden a game comes down to the last few minutes...At that time little lil' Tiny Tim school with 2500 student population has totally forgotten their 18 point dogs ..

[shocka43]

Teams aren't just packing it in to disturb the bigs, they are packing it in to prevent penetration...where this team is best.

I am not too concerned about the big situation, as they will come along...hopefully.

What I am more concerned with is the interior defense, much more than the offense. Last night, the rotations were horrible...which contributes to the poor closeouts on shooters.

I saw and handful of times where on a reversal, our interior defensive player was bodying up his man on the side of the floor that the ball was rotated or skipped from. That defender has to be quicker to the middle of the floor and ultimately on the closeout. This allows the backside rotation to cover the post he was once guarding.

If you looked at the oppositions D, it was much better than ours. If this team got beat in the scoring arena, I wouldn't be that bent if their defensive fundamentals were good. But they aren't...guys standing up, following their man around screens and chasing him through the lane, etc. If you watch us...on an off ball screen...the guy getting screened turns his back to the ball and follows/chases his guy around the screens. When there is a double screen...his guy is going to be the guy getting the look in the lane or the ball side shooter once he makes his cut. The two defenders of the screener just stand there and hope that the guy getting screened gets lucky and catches up with his man.

Other teams flatten out on the backside and make the guy whose man is setting the screen, disturb the screening action so the guy getting screened can get back into position...or they are in position to help if the offensive player doesn't curl and flares or steps out to the 3. We are so concerned with the ball screen, that we don't pay attention to what happens after the ball screen and are rarely in good defensive position after the screening action. This is why we are getting killed going to the basket and allowing guys to cut across our face all the way to the other side of the court untouched.

Man defense is taught the same from the early ages all the way to college...I don't know what the hell happened. Why guys chase their man on screens that are on the backside is beyond me. If you are trying to fight through a ball screen, that is one thing. But on the weakside...it makes no sense to chase your man...just flatten out and that screen goes away. The only thing you can get beat on is a flare to the perimeter, which is where fighting through the screen comes into play. But teams aren't flaring to the perimeter because they know we will get confused on the screen and all they have to do is attack the rim or continue to the ball side.

[Sea Bass]

A lot of the issues on offense, IMO, will be solved when the players get more familiar with each other and the rotation gets down to 9 players. The main problem on offense beside the need for more movement are the silly turnovers (guys making poor decisions with the ball), which was a problem last year as well. It leads to a lot of easy chances at the other end.

Price is not the same kind of PG as Dillard but the team doesn't need him to be. The last two teams lacked playmakers, that is not the issue with team. They have a number of guys that can create and attack off the bounce it needs time to mesh.

[Runnin' Rebel]

You all are ripping Kavs play... and I agree he is still rusty and a step slow sometimes - but he had 2 big defensive plays late in the game where he helped on dribble drive and blocked their guards shot.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass one of the defensive issues is that the bigs tended to help on penetration when it was not necessary. The defender was angling off the pentration but our bigs left a player (usually at the 3 point line) undefended.

Sea Bass: Exactly my point on previous postings. The entire team "over-switches" and "over-hedges."

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass His problems are 1) he sometimes gets lost on defense 2) he makes silly turnovers Hopefully PT (he hasn't play much in 4 years) will cure those issues.

Do we have anybody who doesn't also do those things? He is by far our best athlete and he can shoot. That spin move he did in the first half was ridiculous. His defender was wondering where he went. He needs to play more than 20 minutes - at least 28. I know we have three good players for two positions, Pierre, Sibert, and Sanford, but Archie needs to get Sibert more playing time. If one of the three is not playing well (Sanford), play the other two more. Possibly give Sanford some time at the point (which he did in the IPFW game) to play all three at the same time. Last night he could have played Oliver at the 5, which he did for a few minutes, when he was rotating offense/defense. However he does it, he's got to get Sibert more than 20 minutes.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by number21 Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys. We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

I agree the entry passes for the most part were very bad. But the bigs did an awful job of sealing off their defender. Half of those tipped passes were players where the post player allowed his defender to reach around him or allow him to get around him and make a play on the ball. Very poor on both ends.

[IndianaFlyer]

Way to early to play the top 6 or 7 players. It is important to develop the 8 or 9 players that will be the bulk of the rotation and use the nonconference part of the schedule to prepare for conference play. Shortening the rotation now to be 13-2 or 12-3 in nonconference play helps lead to the conference problems we have had. I am fine with the team slowly coming together for a good conference run.

[Alberto Strasse]

UD's bigs stink. None have a good back to the basket move. Against smaller defenders they prefer to turn , face and shoot a bad jump shot rather than use the back of their body to move the defender down to the basket. Tom Blackburn with this team would go small and play them more minutes. Blackburn's five:
Siebert
Pierre
Oliver
Price
Robinson (Holding my nose on defense but he is the only
big with offensive moves in the post and has the
best hands and feet)
First off the bench is a tie between Sanford and Scoochie Smith. When Scooch learns to play "D' with his feet instead of his hands he will get a lot more minutes.

Blackburn's "Runts" with Jack McCarthy in the post were a top ten team before Adolph Rupp had his version of the Runts.

[San Diego Flyer]

Just some thoughts:

1) This is the time of year where coach is experimenting. We are a 20 win team that could also have 10 really ugly losses if the defense doesn't improve.

2) Sibert is an absolute stud scoring maching. But he is going to end up being a situational substitute if he doesn't stop with the silly TO's and play defense.

3) Coach is giving Kavs a lot of rope...for now. But we are going to see a lot more of Jalen and Devon if things don't get smoother in the middle. Scott can be a beast, and at least Jalen can usually finish.

4) We could have avoided a bad loss if only............wait!, holy cow we won by 14!.

5) Where is all the "Scoochie will start from day one" talk? Khari has been pretty solid. But one assist in 27 minutes vs 0 turnovers is suspect for a pg. Maybe if we had made our layups that might have been different. His totals for 2 games are 2 assists and 1 turnover.
That has the feel of a pg who is afraid to take a chance with the ball on penetrations and passes. One can protect the ball to a fault.

6) As a team we have 15 turnovers and 9 steals. That net -6 is not all that bad. However some of the turnovers were REALLY middle school stuff.

7) Kavs rebounding has been good. When you have two street sweepers like Pierre and Oliver, all Kavs has to do is block out.

8) Kyle Davis is the Mark Jones of this squad--court sense, game sense, clock sense--gamer.

[UDDoug]

If I'm picking my top 5 right now I'm playing:

Oliver
Pierre - defense a concern
Sibert - defense and silly turnovers a concer
Price


sorry - can't pick a 5th. Choose from Sanford, Scott, Davis.....

In reality it's gotta be Sanford as I would not give up on him for the year after two poor games. I really think this team would play better small and with an open post. Flash Sanford, Oliver, Sibert, Pierre to the post, leave it open to drive the ball from the wings.

The most perplexing thing last night was the total lack of movement on offense. I haven't seen that much lack of movement since Miller's been here. The poor defensive rotations and poor play on ball and weak side screens - seen that plenty.

[Sea Bass]

Early on the Flyers got decent movement and got exactly what they wanted the first 10 minutes of the game. They had to have missed 7 or 8 shots within 4 feet (even Pierre missed a couple). They convert and after 10 minutes they would have had a 15+ point lead and the game would have been over.

All the misses allowed SF to hang around and their defense got better(and they packed it in a little tighter) and the ball movement and player movement stopped and was replaced by no movement and trying to force passes inside without moving the defense.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass I said nothing like that. There is no way you can develop anything without giving guys enough floor time together. DMO played 37 minutes, that means the 4 bigs played the same position last night. There is no way you can develop anyone by dividing 40 minutes among 4 players. At some point Archie needs to decide who his 2 best big guys are and go with it. Right now there are too many guys getting minutes. Check out the +/- for two games and you have a pretty good idea about who deserves more and who deserves less. Pollard may be a guy that turns into a really good player next year but for now there is no way he gets many minutes, he is simply stuck behind too many good players who need to be on the floor.

Again, wasn't trying to pick on you, the vibe of the overall comments was going that way. "Kicking 2 of them out of the rotation", as you said, is even further than I would go.

Kicking 2 out of the rotation says "thanks for coming boys, but I've now (when?) decided you're going to spend the rest of the season on the bench. My assistants might spend their time with you while you work on the scout team. The walkons will show you how to fill water bottles."

I just don't think you can run a small group that way. I don't know who, but someone WILL get hurt. If Gav is treated like a worthless lump until then, he won't be ready. If Scott is treated like that he might still reach his full potential. . . at Akron.

Everyone needs to be kept invested in the season. You can't treat people like this is a video game and they just get swapped out like Legos. If you do that you end up with players who are not emotionally invested and stop working, which hurts the scout team, hurts their development, hurts the team when someone is injured.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug If I'm picking my top 5 right now I'm playing: Oliver Pierre - defense a concern Sibert - defense and silly turnovers a concer Price sorry - can't pick a 5th. Choose from Sanford, Scott, Davis..... .

I would go small with Davis as Scoochie can back up.

Or if bigger with Scott.

Sanford first off the bench.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Kicking 2 out of the rotation says "thanks for coming boys, but I've now (when?) decided you're going to spend the rest of the season on the bench. My assistants might spend their time with you while you work on the scout team. The walkons will show you how to fill water bottles."

Obviously you have an advanced degree in reading between the lines, I don't need someone else to tell me what I meant. The comment meant nothing more than 2 guys not getting regular minutes ... that's it, it implied nothing.

Pretty obvious that Gavs and Pollard are not going to get many minutes this year. That's just the way it is, if it hurts their feelings and they decide to leave then so be it. Archie has a job of winning games, not keeping everyone happy, that is for pee wee sports in our self-esteem based culture.

The reality is if you want minutes you have to take them from someone else by outperforming them because there is only a finite amount to go around. It isn't on the coaches to make this happen, it is on each individual to work as hard as they can to make it happen. The coaches can provide information but not the motivation to make it happen.

[shocka43]

Those unsure of Vee shouldn't be making those assumptions based on what we have see so far this year. His role will change this year with new additions. Last season it was KD and Vee. Only two scorers on the floor worth a ****. We know what he is capable of doing and to sell him short because of lackluster performances early on isn't fair to Vee or the team.

Vee will be a huge contributor this year, will win us some games, and will be a leader on the floor.

[Marysville Flyer]

For this team to be really good offensively two things need to occur

1. Scoochie needs to develop to where he is the PG getting 25+ minutes


-- we need an explosive playmaker at PG not a game manager
-- I love KP but he can't create on his own and thus doesn't open up the floor for the bigs.
-- Since our bigs don't have great post ability, we need a PG that compliments this weakness


2. Seibert needs to play at a level where he is a starter and plays 30 minutes

-- He has the it factor - the drive and desire to want the ball and the ability to do good things with it
-- DS is too timid in his play - too willing to disappear - he has way too many games where he scores in a burst and then is silent for the remainder of the game. He is a nice complimentary player by not a go to guy or a leader
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[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer For this team to be really good offensively two things need to occur 1. Scoochie needs to develop to where he is the PG getting 25+ minutes -- we need an explosive playmaker at PG not a game manager -- I love KP but he can't create on his own and thus doesn't open up the floor for the bigs. -- Since our bigs don't have great post ability, we need a PG that compliments this weakness 2. Seibert needs to play at a level where he is a starter and plays 30 minutes -- He has the it factor - the drive and desire to want the ball and the ability to do good things with it -- DS is too timid in his play - too willing to disappear - he has way too many games where he scores in a burst and then is silent for the remainder of the game. He is a nice complimentary player by not a go to guy or a leader Posted via Mobile Device

going from HS to college is a hard adjustment. Game is faster, more physical and you are likely competing with someone with as much talent as you have. Price is a very good player (IMO 2nd best on the team) and Scoochie is going to have to work his tail off to take some of his minutes. If he gets those it will be because he earned it.

Sibert hasn't played much real basketball in 4 years. Hopefully the silly TOs will go away.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer For this team to be really good offensively two things need to occur 1. Scoochie needs to develop to where he is the PG getting 25+ minutes -- we need an explosive playmaker at PG not a game manager -- I love KP but he can't create on his own and thus doesn't open up the floor for the bigs. -- Since our bigs don't have great post ability, we need a PG that compliments this weakness 2. Seibert needs to play at a level where he is a starter and plays 30 minutes -- He has the it factor - the drive and desire to want the ball and the ability to do good things with it -- DS is too timid in his play - too willing to disappear - he has way too many games where he scores in a burst and then is silent for the remainder of the game. He is a nice complimentary player by not a go to guy or a leader Posted via Mobile Device

Very few "explosive" play makers in the country and you sure as heck ain't finding one at UD this year..I'll take "game manager" all day long if that includes 4-5 apg, the ability to knock down a couple shots, run the break efficiently, and play really good OTB defense..

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass going from HS to college is a hard adjustment. Game is faster, more physical and you are likely competing with someone with as much talent as you have. Price is a very good player (IMO 2nd best on the team) and Scoochie is going to have to work his tail off to take some of his minutes. If he gets those it will be because he earned it. Sibert hasn't played much real basketball in 4 years. Hopefully the silly TOs will go away.

Price is your second best player on the ENTIRE team?

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Price is your second best player on the ENTIRE team?

yep. Good shooter, doesn't turn it over and far away the best defender on the team. There is a reason the team struggles whenever he goes to the bench.

[steve]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Price is your second best player on the ENTIRE team?

Not hard to fathom one bit...Won't beat everybody in horse or one on one but as a team player right now he's easily in the top 2-3..And I'd bet you just about anything that if you asked Miller who he relies on and trusts more than the others then Price might be 1 or 2..

[Sea Bass]

season +/-

it doesn't explain everything but it can be used to draw some general conclusions and the fact that Pierre and Price have to best +/- through the first two games is no fluke.

Price 26
Pierre 25
Sanford 18
Oliver 11
Sibert 8
Scott 8
Kavanaugh 2
Gavrilovic 2
Pollard -5
Robinson -5
Smith -7
Davis -8

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass yep. Good shooter, doesn't turn it over and far away the best defender on the team. There is a reason the team struggles whenever he goes to the bench.

I agree with most of that. But his defense has not been as good this year, he is getting beat off the dribble at almost KD level's through 2 games. While a good shooter he struggles creating his own shot. Does not have great speed, although you don't need a burner at point. I see him as nothing more than a game manager who can hit the spot up wide open 3 and playing solid defense. Nothing that a opposing coach would game plan to stop. He would be a guy a coach would say if he beats us they were meant to win.

Don't get me wrong, I like the kid a lot. A tough kid that really nobody but UD wanted. I am glad he is here and **** well deserves to be on the floor. I just don't think I would say he is the first or second best player on the team.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by steve Not hard to fathom one bit...Won't beat everybody in horse or one on one but as a team player right now he's easily in the top 2-3..And I'd bet you just about anything that if you asked Miller who he relies on and trusts more than the others then Price might be 1 or 2..

Trusting the player the most and a player being the best 1-2 players on the team are totally different things. I think there are a lot of real smart role players out there that coaches would trust more than their best players. It happens on every team.

[LI Flyer]

I realize this thread is about bigs, but take one look at the assist leaders on this team:
Pierre - 3.0
Oliver - 1.5

This is just another aspect of poor performance!

[Fudd]

There is panic when our offense sputters because we have nothing reliable as a team at the defensive end right now. We are undisciplined and not motivated to the level we have to be to play with defensive urgency, IMO. The good defensive teams are not afraid to burn energy at that end of the floor. UD players look like they are pacing themselves on defense, just like last year.

[vclark34]

Originally Posted by Fudd There is panic when our offense sputters because we have nothing reliable as a team at the defensive end right now. We are undisciplined and not motivated to the level we have to be to play with defensive urgency, IMO. The good defensive teams are not afraid to burn energy at that end of the floor. UD players look like they are pacing themselves on defense, just like last year.

Defense wasn't bad at all last night, we got 9 steals held them to 36 percent shooting from the floor and we held them under 60 points if Dayton hadn't left so many easy shots short last night or turned the ball over less we probably would have won by more than 20.
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[UDDoug]

If they finish inside and don't turnover the ball so much, they probably win by 35. Add 10 points for finishing routine layups, subtract at least 10 for reasonable turnovers. SF had 25 freaking points off of 15 turnovers, telling you how bad most of those were. In contrast Dayton had 22 points off 17 turnovers.

But stupid turnovers, not finishing and weak defense have been issues for a while.

I agree with Shocka, giving up on Sanford after two poor games would be a bad move. I would play small against most opponents though, until you got a post too big for Oliver to defend.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass Obviously you have an advanced degree in reading between the lines, I don't need someone else to tell me what I meant.

What is this, Congress? Everything has to be a shouting match? Good lord. Shout at yourself, I'm not joining.

Originally Posted by Sea Bass Pretty obvious that Gavs and Pollard are not going to get many minutes this year. That's just the way it is, if it hurts their feelings and they decide to leave then so be it. Archie has a job of winning games, not keeping everyone happy, that is for pee wee sports in our self-esteem based culture.

Keeping everyone happy wins games. Telling people "I'm kicking you out of the rotation" loses the locker room, loses games. Telling people "you need to improve X, Y, and Z to earn more playing time, and it's my job as your coach to make sure you improve those things" is a very different message from "I'm kicking you out of the rotation." If that's not what you meant, well, I can only go on what you said.

When someone on my team doesn't get a bonus because their communications are poor, I tell them, "You need to improve on your communications. From now on before anything goes outside the department let's review it and discuss the right way and wrong way to do it so you can get better." Yes, that is my job. Or I could just "kick the person out of the department" but that doesn't develop talent and it doesn't win projects, it just puts more pressure on me to do someone else's job for them. If that person already had all the needed skills they would be sitting in my chair.

Originally Posted by Sea Bass The reality is if you want minutes you have to take them from someone else by outperforming them because there is only a finite amount to go around. It isn't on the coaches to make this happen, it is on each individual to work as hard as they can to make it happen. The coaches can provide information but not the motivation to make it happen.

Not everyone gets a trophy. But, what do you tell someone when they get minutes by default when someone is injured? "You know I kicked you out of the rotation because I think you suck but I have no other choice right now. Go get 'em tiger!" I would much rather say, "You've been working on these skills and need to continue working on them, but we need you to step up right now and prove that all the practice is paying off."

It's just about attitude, that's all. If you think it's right to approach people with a "kick you out" attitude that's fine, but it's going to show through and players won't respect you. If you treat people like human beings you get much better long term results (and recruits).

[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by rollo In the middle/late 2nd half, Bucky commented twice about how Kavs had cleared out the low post and was wide open but didn't get a pass or a look. And that's the problem...our wings aren't even looking to pass the ball down low. Yeah, our bigs aren't great, but we have to establish a low post threat to open lanes and make the defense react.

So he can miss the lay-up?

[cjswartz]

6 assists and 15 turnovers against St Francis PA is very concerning. It's not like they have an elite defense and certainly far from one of the best we'll see this season. Fordham scored 87 against that defense. I think that stat line tells the story of last night and should be a primary focus going forward for the team.

I love Khari's intensity on D and his shooting seems to have gotten better this season, but I think if we're looking to him to lead us at the point this year, we're in trouble. He manages the game ok, but isn't one to make his teammates around him better. He only had 1 assist in 27 minutes last night. We need someone who can distribute the ball more effectively. I'm hoping that Scoochie (who has way more upside) starts developing quickly and is the starter by the time we start conference play, but his play in the first couple of games is making me think it is unlikely. Hopefully it's just nerves so far for him and he'll settle down soon.

Kavs has played terribly so far this year. I'd consider benching him if he doesn't improve soon in favor of Scott. Robinson doesn't look like he will be a prominent player this year and Gavs will never play a lot of minutes for us. The poor play from our bigs hasn't caused us to lose yet, but it will against better opponents (GT, Zags, A10 foes).

We need our bigs to play much better and our PG to distribute the ball better or it will be another long and frustrating season.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by AQUDXU So he can miss the lay-up?

no...so the perimeter defense has to react which will open up outside shots, passing lanes and driving opportunities.

He doesn't have to shoot the ball every time he touches it...but the defense needs to think he might in order for the offense to work.

Duh!?

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by rollo Karma. Bench him.

I hope there are no rewards in the "I wanna act like XU" experiment being played out at UD this season.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[steve]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Trusting the player the most and a player being the best 1-2 players on the team are totally different things. I think there are a lot of real smart role players out there that coaches would trust more than their best players. It happens on every team.

And no matter how good a player is if he can't be "trusted" by a coach then he won't be out there in critical times....Who would you rather be dating a chick who's a "10" but drinks every night and likes to hang with lots of dudes or a chick who's a "7-8" that kind of likes just hanging with you ?? You bet your arse having trust in a guy is far more important than taking every great player/athlete out there who is aloof to all surroundings..

You think Price is a better "talent" than Scoochie? I don't but who gets taken out of the game multiple times for bad decisions/fouls? Might change tomorrow but until it does Scoochie is not a better player for "this" team now..

[udflyerfan]

St Francis (point of view) Game Summary

http://www.sfuathletics.com/news/201...113133003.aspx

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Keeping everyone happy wins games.

actually that is surefire recipe for losing games. You win by getting your best players on the floor for the majority of minutes.

Everyone is competitive and wants to play but some just aren't good enough at this point to see the floor on a consistent basis. If they want to play more then you work harder to get better. Any coach who rewards players with minutes just to keep them happy isn't going to last long at the collegiate level, although they will likely last a real long time coaching 5th and 6th graders.

Every player that is not getting major minutes ought to be unhappy with that, otherwise they are unlikely to improve enough to get in the rotation.

It is the obligation of every member of the team to be ready when their number is called, doesn't matter if they have not played in 10 games.

And yeah you are still jumping off the deep end trying to read all kinds of things into a statement where none was intended.

[daytonflyers]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass actually that is surefire recipe for losing games. You win by getting your best players on the floor for the majority of minutes. Everyone is competitive and wants to play but some just aren't good enough at this point to see the floor on a consistent basis. If they want to play more then you work harder to get better. Any coach who rewards players with minutes just to keep them happy isn't going to last long at the collegiate level, although they will likely last a real long time coaching 5th and 6th graders. It is the obligation of every member of the team to be ready when their number is called, doesn't matter if they have not played in 10 games. And yeah you are still jumping off the deep end trying to read all kinds of things into a statement where none was intended.

SeaBass, you are reading one critical point into the previous poster's critique that simply was not there. He did not say you have to keep them happy by playing them. He said you have to keep them happy. Like, by not treating them like ****. Which is apparently the position you take. Sure, it is every players responsibility to be ready when their number is called. But there are a lot of people in this world who don't fulfill their responsibilities without some help/prompting. These are 18 year old kids. They need to be treated that way if the coach expects them to perform.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Price is your second best player on the ENTIRE team?

That may be, based on the whole body of work. But he may not be the best point guard bacause 2 assists in 2 games won't get it done for us. His job is to run the offense and get others shots too.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer For this team to be really good offensively two things need to occur 1. Scoochie needs to develop to where he is the PG getting 25+ minutes -- we need an explosive playmaker at PG not a game manager -- I love KP but he can't create on his own and thus doesn't open up the floor for the bigs. -- Since our bigs don't have great post ability, we need a PG that compliments this weakness

KP has 2 turnovers and has knocked down the open looks he has been given. He runs the offense and isn't a liability. He is also the best perimeter defender.

Makes no sense to throw upperclass minutes to a freshman that isn't as good of a defender, who needs to show poise running the offense, etc...

How many assists does KP get if guys hit their bunnies? With all the *****ing about D, we want to put our best perimeter defender on the pine?

KP is the best PG at this point in time.

[Tony T 71]

Originally Posted by AQUDXU So he can miss the lay-up?

Kav had a poor game last night but had 11rebounds and 7points in game one. I'd take those numbers anytime. Hopefully he will be more consistent as the rust wears off.

[tlangs98]

The most puzzling move of the whole game was during the second half. We had built up a 7 or 8 point buffer then Archie pulled out Price, Sanford, Pierre, and Sibert (and possibly Oliver...i can't remember). He had Smith and Davis in the game with no other offensive threats. I have no problem with trying different line ups but at least build up a 15-20 point lead first.

Shortly after this substitution, St. Francis went on a little run and it remained close the rest of the game until the very end. Sibert didn't return to the game for 8+ minutes and then went on his 7 point scoring streak.

We really need to have at least 2 of Pierre, Sanford, Sibert, and Oliver in the game at all times.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Tony T 71 Kav had a poor game last night but had 11rebounds and 7points in game one. I'd take those numbers anytime. Hopefully he will be more consistent as the rust wears off.

Consideration should be given to the fact that Kav's managed to get 4 rebounds in spite of the fact that his forwards pulled down 22. He may have had a good game blocking out and therefore allowing them to do that. Huelsman took up space and didn't always show up in the box score, but most people seem to wish his clone would show up.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by steve Not hard to fathom one bit...Won't beat everybody in horse or one on one but as a team player right now he's easily in the top 2-3..And I'd bet you just about anything that if you asked Miller who he relies on and trusts more than the others then Price might be 1 or 2..

That might be true, I would disagree with that premise, but unfortunately that isn't what this team needs. His game does not fit what is needed given skillset of most of the rest of the team. That isn't his fault, it just means that this team will not be what it could be with a PG who can create his own shot thus opening things up for the many others that can't do that on this team.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 KP has 2 turnovers and has knocked down the open looks he has been given. He runs the offense and isn't a liability. He is also the best perimeter defender. Makes no sense to throw upperclass minutes to a freshman that isn't as good of a defender, who needs to show poise running the offense, etc... KP is the best PG at this point in time.

Thus use of the word 'develop'

I never said he should be playing now. I never said he would develop enough to take KP numbers. I never said D wasn't an issue.

The point stated was that for this team to be as good offensively as they could be, Scoochie's potential skillset is needed and I am hoping he is a real quick learner.

Having said that though, you don't develop by watching.

[daytonflyers]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer That might be true, I would disagree with that premise, but unfortunately that isn't what this team needs. His game does not fit what is needed given skillset of most of the rest of the team. That isn't his fault, it just means that this team will not be what it could be with a PG who can create his own shot thus opening things up for the many others that can't do that on this team.

I think his skills fit well with this team because he doesn't need to have the ball to be effective. Your assist man doesn't always have to be the point guard. He is a good spot up shooter, so he can stretch the floor, and he keeps the ball moving. This team could not have a ball-dominator at PG, because we have too many other guys who are at their best when creating (Sibert, Pierre, Sanford).

Pierre is the best playmaker on the team, and is likely to lead us in assists on the year. That is fine. What isn't fine is 6 total assists as a team.

Obviously it would be nice if Khari got 4-5 assists per game. But he can still get the job done if he doesn't.

[UDDoug]

Whoever creates penetration will likely lead the team in assists. That isn't going to be Price. And that's not a problem if Pierre, Sibert, Sanford and Oliver play well.

[Glen Clark]

". . . our 4 bigs have a total of 17 pts in two games ". . . they were awful tonight and have struggled to finish near the rim ". . . but the fact of the matter is for them to contribute, they need to finish at the rim, stay out of foul trouble, and not loose teeth. . ."

So let's talk about the shortcomings of the littlest guy on the floor, a true hustle player . . .
Saying Kahari Price "does not fit what is needed given skillset of most of the rest of the team" is pure hogwash.

___________________
You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament!
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[steve]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Thus use of the word 'develop' I never said he should be playing now. I never said he would develop enough to take KP numbers. I never said D wasn't an issue. The point stated was that for this team to be as good offensively as they could be, Scoochie's potential skillset is needed and I am hoping he is a real quick learner. Having said that though, you don't develop by watching.

What exactly is a "potential skill-set" ? That really makes no sense...We have NO idea what skill-set he has, or will have, at the college level and most definitely now....You can't put the cart before the horse here.........We're 2 games into the season and I'm seeing a better APG average from KP than 1 per game....The BIGS have to play BIG and if not for a few missed layups and , imho, a terrible offensive flow with far too many dribble drives into traffic , the assist game from KP has been hindered.........

I agree that that he does need to get the ball into the lane to sag the D for kickouts and/or take the ball to the rack a bit more...He's not shown that asset yet outside of one time I believe...

[Mr. Flyerfanman]

I'd still like to see a Keith W or someone like him on the coaching staff to help coach the bigs on both the offense and defense. Now that he's back and has played against quality players and opponents, as well as his time overseas, he could really help them out with his experience. It might not be an option or a good idea but it is an area that needs improvement. There are a lot of teams that are doing really well with former players on the staff so why not try this approach. Just a random thought.
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[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by rollo no...so the perimeter defense has to react which will open up outside shots, passing lanes and driving opportunities. He doesn't have to shoot the ball every time he touches it...but the defense needs to think he might in order for the offense to work. Duh!?

Why would the perimeter defense react? There is plenty of tape of him not getting the ball over the front of teh rim when 1 ft from the basket.

I agree with your point of getting the ball into the post. The execution is not there with Kavs.

[CraSch]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer Consideration should be given to the fact that Kav's managed to get 4 rebounds in spite of the fact that his forwards pulled down 22. He may have had a good game blocking out and therefore allowing them to do that. Huelsman took up space and didn't always show up in the box score, but most people seem to wish his clone would show up.

2 of his 4 rebounds were of his own misses. 2 years ago I felt at least half his o-rebounds were of his own missed shots. I'm very willing to have him average 2 less boards a gamr if it means he's making 2 more shots.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by AQUDXU Why would the perimeter defense react? There is plenty of tape of him not getting the ball over the front of the rim when 1 ft from the basket. I agree with your point of getting the ball into the post. The execution is not there with Kavs.

Before being redshirted, E.D. averaged almost 10 ppg so we know he used to be able to make a layup and I'm just assuming that re-learning that skill should be pretty easy for a 6'10" inch boy.

Silly me!

[Sea Bass]

Kavs cannot score OVER defenders(that is why he has to make moves to try and get around the defender), at this point it is what it is but in general bad things happen when Kavs receives the ball with his back to basket and does not quickly pass it.

[jack72]

There seems to be no doubt that the best lineup against these weaker, smaller teams is 3 guards (Seifert, Khari and Sanford) and two forwards (Oliver and Pierre). It appears that Archie, who gets paid the bigger bucks than me to coach, and his staff are playing for the season. This means develop the center position, see who plays best and develop an offense that uses a low and high post center. If it doesn't work, then he can always go to a smaller lineup in the A10. How about some patience from some of us who said we would rather lose some non-conference games and finisher higher in the A10.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by jack72 How about some patience from some of us who said we would rather lose some non-conference games and finisher higher in the A10.

There are some non-con losses that are acceptable and others that are not. Weber St (at home) and the potential loss to IPFW are not. Gonzaga is.

I think the context of that was based on challenging the team to improve via tougher non con schedule. It is not a free pass to "get the kinks out" during the non con schedule. That's OK if you play in a 1 bid league.

I'd like to think that UD, and by extension most A-10 teams, are playing for an at-large berth as much as winning a conference tourney. It's based on the whole body of work. AM needs to experiment in practice, not games.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by rollo Before being redshirted, E.D. averaged almost 10 ppg so we know he used to be able to make a layup and I'm just assuming that re-learning that skill should be pretty easy for a 6'10" inch boy. Silly me!

I was of the opinion 2 years ago that those points largely came from Dillard delivering the ball to set up the score - usually off some type of penetration or screen and roll where no post up against a defender was necessary. If a defender is there and he has to post him up, #35 can't score.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by springborofan There are some non-con losses that are acceptable and others that are not. Weber St (at home) and the potential loss to IPFW are not. Gonzaga is. I think the context of that was based on challenging the team to improve via tougher non con schedule. It is not a free pass to "get the kinks out" during the non con schedule. That's OK if you play in a 1 bid league. I'd like to think that UD, and by extension most A-10 teams, are playing for an at-large berth as much as winning a conference tourney. It's based on the whole body of work. AM needs to experiment in practice, not games.

Some things can't be accomplished in practice. It is good to run the sets we will need to run the remainder of the year in these early games and work on fixing the problems in practice when you have some examples of what is wrong with the picture. Maybe that way they will be prepared to take on Gonzaga. You know the Zags are going to be ready for us.

There appears to be lots of room for improvement on this team. We've managed to win them so far this year and I think St. Francis (Saturday version) is going to expose even more holes in our game. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of improvement we see this weekend, if any.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UDDoug I was of the opinion 2 years ago that those points largely came from Dillard delivering the ball to set up the score - usually off some type of penetration or screen and roll where no post up against a defender was necessary. If a defender is there and he has to post him up, #35 can't score.

Also things change a bit now because it seems we have better shooters.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by number21 Miller needs to coach on how to throw in an entry pass. Almost every entry pass was tipped or stolen. Bounce passes boys. We had so much size on them UD should have been posting up Pierre or Sanford on every possession. Total mismatches that Miller needs to recognize.

I love the bounce pass deep into the paint. Unfortunately, it is a dying art. You just don't see today's players employing the bounce pass.

[San Diego Flyer]

We have been over this bounce pass thing before with Huelsman, Alvarez, Searcy, Kavanuagh, and a host of other 5's.

There are so many quick hands out there these days that the DEEP bounce pass is a sitting duck most of the time. And it takes a heck of 5 spot to block out well enough to pin his man who can also see and anticipate it coming.

Totally agree the bounce pass in general is under-appreciated.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by CraSch 2 of his 4 rebounds were of his own misses. 2 years ago I felt at least half his o-rebounds were of his own missed shots. I'm very willing to have him average 2 less boards a gamr if it means he's making 2 more shots.

I agree with that, and also his rep on the offensive boards is discouraging the opponent from cheating out and running.

[UDBrian]

Brooks Hall had some interesting comments on this, as usual Brooks is really on top of it.

They said that Kavs and Sanford had a 'discussion'. Brooks said early in the game he had written down that Kavs needed to work harder. But, he started to pay more attention and the team wasn't giving him the ball when he did have good position.

As Archie mentioned in the post game though, you need to make layups...

	Brooks Hall BROOKS HALL 6-6 205lb Troy HS | Troy (OH) Cool, calm, cerebral wing player who finished among the Top-25 scorers in Flyer history. Deadly three-point shot and excellent passing skills. Helped Dayton reach two NCAA tournaments under Oliver Purnell. Consensus Top-125 recruit out of Troy HS in 1999 where he was D-I First Team All-Ohio and the media's choice for Ohio Mr. Basketball. CAREER STATS 1999-00 10.4ppg 5.8rpg 2000-01 9.20ppg 4.6rpg 2001-02 13.2ppg 5.0rpg 2002-03 12.8ppg 6.9rpg TOTALS 1404pts 686rbs 275asts

[SeasonTicketFan]

I thought that Kav played a good game. He set good picks on offense and sealed defenders when they tried to rotate. He held his own on defense.

In the second half, he looked more natural, once using a nice pump fake in the lane.

I thought a big improvement for entire team today, but specially Kav and Vee.

[bobber]

After today, I bet our three point shooting is way better than our three foot shooting.

[Whacker]

I would love to see a shot chart for the Flyers. I counted 18 misses within 4 feet of the rim.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UDBrian They said that Kavs and Sanford had a 'discussion'. Brooks said early in the game he had written down that Kavs needed to work harder. But, he started to pay more attention and the team wasn't giving him the ball when he did have good position.

The possession in question was when MK had position and Vee received the ball on the wing. Unfortunately for MK, the passer cut in between MK and Vee...which had the entry been made, it would have been a turnover. The play resulted in a 3 second call because MK's heavy footed rear end blew deep into the lane and the entry was now too deep for Vee to enter the ball into the post.

MK was crying to Vee that he didn't get the ball and Vee told him that he was trying to get him the fnball. The next time down the court there was another verbal exchange while MK was still butt hurt he didn't get the ball. Easily saw/heard the exchange as it was right in front of me.

MK needs to worry about everything else versus not getting the ball on an entry...that the PG screwed up by drawing his defender between the wing and the post.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 MK needs to worry about everything else versus not getting the ball on an entry...that the PG screwed up by drawing his defender between the wing and the post.

Like making a fricking layup when he does get the ball.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan I thought that Kav played a good game. He set good picks on offense and sealed defenders when they tried to rotate. He held his own on defense.

And here I thought Huelsman graduated....