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  #401  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, my wife works with a woman from S. Korea who just returned this week after a month over seas. They sat in her office and spoke about things yesterday. She says that the N. Koreans know exactly what is going on around the world but under no circumstances can act like they know anything. The US doesn't need to drop pamphlets/propaganda as long as there is 'streaming' available. She says N. Korea is a mess, but would offer the region boundless resources if the gates were ever opened. Jung-In is feared greatly in the North...nothing we don't already know...and change will be slow, if there is any.
What about this?:


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...re_slaves.html:

North Korean Defector: "They Don't Know They Are Slaves"
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  #402  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
What about this?:


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...re_slaves.html:

North Korean Defector: "They Don't Know They Are Slaves"
If they don't know they are slaves why would anyone defect?

Obviously they know...
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  #403  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:10 AM
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An answer

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If they don't know they are slaves why would anyone defect?

Obviously they know...
Not necessarily. Perhaps the truth is that a very large percentage of NKs have no inkling of their plight or what the outside world is like...while, of course, many do.

I recall an article written by a reporter who had spend quite a bit of time touring NK. Of course, she was "accompanied" by an NK official as was not allowed to go anywhere she wanted....she understood that. Nonetheless her point was that she was in country for some time and encountered thousands of people going about their business. She saw no evidence of discontent among the people.

A person born and raised in NK, as bad as it is, has no reason to believe life is any different than whet they are experiencing. Bottom line. Large numbers on NKs probably know the score...even larger numbers do not...and there is a group somewhere in between. With a population of 20+ million plenty try to escape and succeed. Others would try but don't want to leave families.

What can we do to increase the number of informed NKs?
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Mad Props to UACFlyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
ud2 (06-15-2018)
  #404  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:25 AM
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UAC, I agree with what you are saying. I will also add, just because people know something it does not mean they will act on it or be able to figure out what the problem is. Just look at some people in our country, who are clueless as to how to get a job or want a job. Secondly, propaganda is very strong and exclusive there. Again in our country, you can expose a Republican or Democrat to certain facts and it will have no meaning.
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  #405  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If they don't know they are slaves why would anyone defect?

Obviously they know...
I do not think there is anything obvious here, I really strongly disagree with you on this. Your opinion on this really ticks me off.

Some know, some appear to not know. That interview makes that clear IMO. She only appears to have known because she could see across the river into China where there was electricity and food. What about those not near the border with China?

Last edited by ud2; 06-15-2018 at 12:00 PM..
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  #406  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I do not think there is anything obvious here, I really strongly disagree with you on this. Your opinion on this really ticks me off.

Some know, some appear to not know. That interview makes that clear IMO. She only appears to have known because she could see across the river into China where there was electricity and food. What about those not near the border with China?
Do you think people in foreign countries hear our President talk and think the guy in Eastern KY is just like him, or the guy in the ghetto of LA. Some foreigners think our whole country is like Disneyland and Manhattan and Hollywood.

NK has 25 million people and many in poverty in huts out in the middle of nowhere. I doubt they have internet or computers, when they struggle for food and water and seeds.
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  #407  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If they don't know they are slaves why would anyone defect?

Obviously they know...
After further research, I will partially agree with you. For the younger citizens, I think ignorance may be more commonplace. The older citizens seem to have a total understanding of what is going on.

The below article seems to paint a realistic and very grim/awful picture: neighbors spying on each other and ratting each other out in order to win favor with the state/party, local neighborhood government surveillance agents, severe beatings/prison camp sentences/executions for seemingly any violation of the rules, a powerful rich upper class that shows absolutely no regard for the plight of the middle and lower classes, intense fear of speaking out/protesting/staging an uprising due to fear of punishment, extreme control of the movement of citizens, routine random search and seizure, swift punishment/removal of any dissidents, little ability to discuss grievances with the government with anyone(except for close family and friends)due to fear of being ratted out, widespread poverty, extreme disdain/jealousy for accumulation of wealth/upward mobility among the middle and lower classes such that the middle and lower citizens take pleasure in seeing a fellow citizen brought down a notch, anemic economy, and extremely strict governmental control of all information flow/press reports.

The most likely to escape seem to be those located near the Chinese or South Korean border. I am not sure why the NK government does not relocate those people farther away from the border in order to stop escapes.

Life in NK sounds like an awful existence.

It is a total police state.

Not at all a workers' paradise.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.bc775462532f

Last edited by ud2; 06-16-2018 at 12:29 PM..
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  #408  
Old 06-19-2018, 08:07 AM
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Intelligence Report Says Trump ‘Retreated’ From North Korea Deal

https://hillreporter.com/intelligenc...-deal-2707/amp

The report suggests the deal signed by Trump and Kim Jong Un failed to guarantee North Korea would commit to “full, irreversible, and verifiable denuclearization,” Axios reveals.

The President’s deal calls for “complete” denuclearization but makes no mention of how or when North Korea will accomplish that goal. Legal experts have claimed it could take decades to realize Trump’s goal.
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  #409  
Old 06-20-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Intelligence Report Says Trump ‘Retreated’ From North Korea Deal

https://hillreporter.com/intelligenc...-deal-2707/amp

The report suggests the deal signed by Trump and Kim Jong Un failed to guarantee North Korea would commit to “full, irreversible, and verifiable denuclearization,” Axios reveals.

The President’s deal calls for “complete” denuclearization but makes no mention of how or when North Korea will accomplish that goal. Legal experts have claimed it could take decades to realize Trump’s goal.

All the T(d)umpster did was temporarily diffuse his own mess that he started and people want to applaud this POS? Seriously, tell me he just didn't "look the rocket man's soul" like GW Bush did with Putin and trust him. What about further enriching of uranium and plutonium? What about all the IBM's? Are inspectors allowed in? All he did was denounce a testing that the US and SK have done for 60 plus years and end it.

I don't give a flying you-know-what if you're a Democrat/Indep./Repub. what did the U.S get out of this other than a handshake? Does anybody really feel any better today than 2 weeks ago?


This ain't 1992 where NK was producing this only in reactors.Today, they have tunnels and caves carved out all thru their mountains hiding this stuff..
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  #410  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
I don't give a flying you-know-what if you're a Democrat/Indep./Repub. what did the U.S get out of this other than a handshake? Does anybody really feel any better today than 2 weeks ago?
The US got at least:
-three prisoners
-a temporary halt to all nuclear testing
-a temporary halt to all missile testing
-a temporary halt to all missile launches
-blowing up of one of their nuclear tunnels
- a negotiation to a permanent denuclearization
- a negotiation of an end to the NK/SK war
- an improvement of the status of the US with all the nations in that area

What the heck does feelings have to do with this? We had nothing but feelings during the 8 years of Obama.
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  #411  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The US got at least:
-three prisoners
-a temporary halt to all nuclear testing
-a temporary halt to all missile testing
-a temporary halt to all missile launches
-blowing up of one of their nuclear tunnels
- a negotiation to a permanent denuclearization
- a negotiation of an end to the NK/SK war
- an improvement of the status of the US with all the nations in that area

What the heck does feelings have to do with this? We had nothing but feelings during the 8 years of Obama.
Thanks for the fact based response.
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  #412  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
All the T(d)umpster did was temporarily diffuse his own mess that he started and people want to applaud this POS? Seriously, tell me he just didn't "look the rocket man's soul" like GW Bush did with Putin and trust him. What about further enriching of uranium and plutonium? What about all the IBM's? Are inspectors allowed in? All he did was denounce a testing that the US and SK have done for 60 plus years and end it.

I don't give a flying you-know-what if you're a Democrat/Indep./Repub. what did the U.S get out of this other than a handshake? Does anybody really feel any better today than 2 weeks ago?


This ain't 1992 where NK was producing this only in reactors.Today, they have tunnels and caves carved out all thru their mountains hiding this stuff..
You sound a lot like Strzok.
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  #413  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:51 PM
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From CNN no less. Most Americans approve of summit. Guess old Steve is in minority.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/polit...oll/index.html
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  #414  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:47 AM
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKBN1JH05L
More good news from NK.
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  #415  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:50 PM
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Trump Re-Affirms North Korean Nuclear Threat After Saying It Was Gone:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...ng-it-was-gone

President Donald Trump told Congress in a letter on Friday that North Korea’s “provocative, destabilizing, and repressive actions...continue to constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat” to the United States.
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  #416  
Old 06-23-2018, 02:43 PM
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Return of remains

Apparently NK is in the process of preparing to return the remains of ~ 100 U.S. service men. The U.K. claimed that one set of remains returned from NK some times ago were determined to be those of an animal.

Hopefully U.S. forensic scientists will be able to ascertain the authenticity of remains we receive. Why would NK even have retained remains of U.S. soldiers for over a half century? A bit odd, I think.
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  #417  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:36 PM
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Email Print Breaking: President Trump Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize by Norwegian Lawmakers

Breaking: President Trump Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize by Norwegian Lawmakers.

Two Norwegian lawmakers have nominated President Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for meeting with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un and reaching an agreement to work toward denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.

https://www.westernjournal.com/break...ian-lawmakers/
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  #418  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:21 AM
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Post Trump-Kim summit: US to give North Korea timeline with specific tasks soon, says official

Post Trump-Kim summit: US to give North Korea timeline with specific tasks soon, says official.

"There will be specific asks and there will be a specific timeline when we present the North Koreans with our concept of what implementation of the summit agreement looks like."

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/u...-soon-official
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  #419  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:57 PM
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Jonathan Cheng
@JChengWSJ


Just FYI, satellite imagery suggests N. Korea is continuing to upgrade its nuclear enrichment facility.

https://www.38north.org/2018/06/yongbyon062618/
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  #420  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:45 AM
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The US got at least:
-three prisoners
-a temporary halt to all nuclear testing
-a temporary halt to all missile testing
-a temporary halt to all missile launches
-blowing up of one of their nuclear tunnels
- a negotiation to a permanent denuclearization
- a negotiation of an end to the NK/SK war
- an improvement of the status of the US with all the nations in that area

What the heck does feelings have to do with this? We had nothing but feelings during the 8 years of Obama.
And you have actual proof any and/or all of the above are detailed and confirmed? That's funny because the below says otherwise:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hhf?li=BBnb7Kz
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  #422  
Old 06-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
And you have actual proof any and/or all of the above are detailed and confirmed? That's funny because the below says otherwise:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hhf?li=BBnb7Kz
You must have posted the wrong article. I read it and it only complains about the administration not having a formal briefing with Congress. No mention of the 8 points I mentioned as not happening.

Please post your proof that the 8 points I posted are not happening. Do you not think the 3 prisoners came home, that NK has had no rocket launches lately, that they blew up a nuclear tunnel?
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  #423  
Old 06-29-2018, 09:42 PM
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NK has increased production at secret nuke sites:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-k...-say-u-n887926
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  #424  
Old 06-30-2018, 11:07 PM
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I remain very skeptical about Kim’s true intentions, especially in light of his meeting with Xi after the summit and NOKO’s apparent recent work on their nuke facility.

No one on the left has any room to jeer, though. Recall that we’re in this mess thanks to the Clintons and Obama (Bush II, too). Trump/Pompeo/Bolton better be ready, Kim is going to turn on a dime and start demanding stuff.

http://thehill.com/opinion/national-...o-late-to-stop
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  #425  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
NK has increased production at secret nuke sites:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-k...-say-u-n887926
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Funny article. They act like the government nuclear experts reporting this nuclear activity are working for a different government than the President. You can be sure he is up to date on what is really happening even more than this article, and will slap the crap out of Rocket Man's pee pee till he cries, "Uncle Donald".
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:42 PM
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Experts Skeptical That North Korea Is Serious About Denuclearizing:

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/05/62604...&ICID=ref_fark
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:04 AM
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Kylie Atwood
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Per @AP - North Korea says high-level talks with a U.S. delegation led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were "regrettable" and has accused Washington of trying to unilaterally pressure the country into abandoning its nukes.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:14 AM
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Just as Trump has said that the negotiations will be difficult and may not happen in the end, because he will not back off. NK trying to now say that total denuclearization is not really "total". Rocket Man is about to learn he is dealing with a very tough negotiator.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:15 PM
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We'll see.....

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Just as Trump has said that the negotiations will be difficult and may not happen in the end, because he will not back off. NK trying to now say that total denuclearization is not really "total". Rocket Man is about to learn he is dealing with a very tough negotiator.
Pompeo is no *****cat. He's not traveling back and forth to NK for the fun of it. And he is well aware of NK's history of dealing with the U.S. I do not think it will take a long time for Pompeo to figure out of NK is playing its usual game.

Indeed, his current visit to NK is the first one since the May summit and "NK ceased to be a threat to the U.S." I do not see why it would take more time than the current visit to get a good read re NK's sincerity. Pompeo is a very smart, tough guy. This could be a pivotal meeting re determination of Kim's true intentions. I expect Pompeo to return with an assessment that Trump and Bolton will have no trouble understanding.

To Trump's credit he has said "hopefully it will work out, maybe it won't". That leaves ample room to walk away. Countering that is Trump's effusive praise of the summit, NK, Kim and just about everything else following the May meeting. That makes it a bit harder to walk away from the table.

But, if there is any chance for Trump's initiative to work he has to walk away soon rather than later and greatly intensify economic pressure if it becomes clear NK and the US are no where near being on the same page. That would be a great lesson for China as well...INHO.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:02 PM
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Reality sets in....

Clearly, neither Pompeo or NK were pleased with the outcome of the first visit after the summit. It sounds as if Pompeo really thought NK had turned over a new leaf. I hope those reports are false. There has been no change in NK, Trump's remarks notwithstanding.

There are also reports that Trump's reputation is riding on the success of post-summit meetings. I don't agree with that at all. The President didn't hesitate to call off the summit when he didn't like the direction it was taking. NK quickly came in line and the summit occurred.

In my opinion the pressure is on NK, not the U.S. Unlike the previous three presidents over a 20+ year time span, this time President Trump bent over backwards in an effort to realize a peaceful outcome. He sent his Sec of State to NK three times and he (Trump) traveled half way around the world to meet with Kim...treating him as an equal, saying very nice things about him and generally kissing his @ss in just about every way possible.

Bottom line: In my opinion the President should put ego aside along with his self-proclaimed prowess as a negotiator, and if there is one more unproductive NK meeting he should pull the plug and not waste any more time. Considering the efforts the President has gone to working toward a peaceful agreement, I think world opinion is now on our side.

Then what: I think the President should then give "Maxiumum Pressure" new meaning by sanctioning the life out of NK. The U.S. has not come close to using the economic and financial pressure at its disposal. Kim has been given his chance. If talking fails it will be on Kim, not President Trump.

The world knows what the word "denuclearization" means...and Kim agreed to just that, in writing. If the President announces that after every reasonable effort, visible to the world, it has become clear that NK has no intention of denuclearizing, and the President calls off further talks, NK and China will deserve whatever they get and the world will understand that. I hope the President has the resolve to know when it's time to walk away.

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  #431  
Old 07-09-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Experts Skeptical That North Korea Is Serious About Denuclearizing:

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/05/62604...&ICID=ref_fark
Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Kylie Atwood
@kylieatwood


Per @AP - North Korea says high-level talks with a U.S. delegation led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo were "regrettable" and has accused Washington of trying to unilaterally pressure the country into abandoning its nukes.
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  #432  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:44 AM
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North Koreans Are No Show at U.S. War Dead Talks:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...yonhap-reports
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:51 AM
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Kim Jong-un opts for a visit to a potato farm over Mike Pompeo meeting:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ompeo-meeting/
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:16 AM
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:28 PM
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Report: US plane leaves for North Korea to pick up US war remains

Report: US plane leaves for North Korea to pick up US war remains.

PYEONGTAEK, South Korea (AP) — A U.S. military plane left from Osan Air Base for North Korea on Friday to pick up the remains of what are believed to be U.S. servicemen killed during the Korean War, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ins/846651002/
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Report: US plane leaves for North Korea to pick up US war remains.

PYEONGTAEK, South Korea (AP) — A U.S. military plane left from Osan Air Base for North Korea on Friday to pick up the remains of what are believed to be U.S. servicemen killed during the Korean War, South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ins/846651002/
The US received what are believed to be the remains of 55 bodies.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:59 AM
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Big test for NK

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
The US received what are believed to be the remains of 55 bodies.
Some years ago NK returned remains to the UK, as I recall, that forensic scientists determined were animal bones.

That had better not be the case this time. Moreover, U.S. scientists have DNA from family members that I believe can be matched with remains. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. These bones are decades old.

Whatever, if NK pulls a fast one there will be trouble. And why would NK even have half-century+-old remains of U.S. soldiers?

Whatever, NK is doing things that they haven't done before. One other thing they are doing according to Pompeo's testimony is continuing to process nuclear fuel. That's more important than return of remains and/or destruction of sites having questionable value.

The "going-in" position of Trump/Pompeo/Bolton should be that "NK is going to everything possible to deceive us. We won't fall for it".
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:50 PM
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How in the world do they find these remains 50 years later? A few sure, but 55 or 100 or more?
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