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Old 02-04-2018, 05:46 AM
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AG- I got hope and here's why...

Okay, I'm going to set the record straight. I posted the gist of this in the game thread but I'm going to put it here so that I can't be accused of wanting AG fired and taking pleasure in failures.

I'll start by quickly reiterating what I think are his weaknesses and then get to why I have hope. I think he's lacking in the flexibility of creating an identity for the players he was handed. He's going to emphasize his way only regardless if he's trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. I think he has a difficult time getting players he inherited to buy in to his system. When it comes to coaching up, I think he is lacking there also compared to his predecessor. There are others but I'm going to stop here.

I believe that the only way for AG to succeed is to successfully recruit better players that are ready to contribute immediately. And I think this is his strength. He's got a knack for drawing better, ready to play recruits. I think his past coaching jobs have shown that. Now, here's what makes me think that there's a good chance that will happen here. In AM's 6 seasons, only one player was able to crack the starting lineup their freshman season. Dyshawn Pierre. The others played small roles except for Scoochie who had to play more of a role due to Khari Price's knees. Scoochie wasn't that impressive but he was stable with the ball and could eat up minutes. Next on the list would be Baby D who was forced into a major role due to a short team both physically and in availability. So nothing real impressive.

So far in one season with only one eligible recruit, Jalen Crutcher, AG is one for one. This is impressive especially since he was a desperation late recruit. Now we know our roster is short on both new and experienced talent so it was probably easier for him to crack the starting lineup, but if that was all there was I'd use that as an excuse for it happening. But Jalen Crutcher has been as impressive with the many minutes he's getting as anyone I can think of in recent history for the Flyers and that includes Dyshawn Pierre.

I can't be sure but it certainly makes me excited to see Obadiah Toppin and Dwayne Cohill take to the floor next season along with a few more that AG will bring in the next couple seasons.

So there you have it. Yes, I'm still going to blame AG a lot for the failures of this season because I think those weaknesses I mentioned above have a lot to do with them. If I look at one game and say it was Josh Cunningham's fault we lost that in no way means that I'm not thankful Josh Cunningham is on the team. If I look at a season and say Kostas was a disappointment that in no way means that I don't believe that Kostas will get better and please us in the future. I'm just dissecting what went wrong and what caused it. I'm looking at the small picture which is what we do on a topic about a game or a topic about a season.

So go ahead and keep attacking me and accusing me of not giving AG a chance, I'm not going to sugar coat single game or single season failures. I can't do it, it's not in my nature. But again, I'm real excited to see how this team performs as we get more of AG's recruits in here because after only one very successful freshman in 6 seasons by a very successful coach, I can't help to believe we could be in for some future great times with a coach who is one for one so far.

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Old 02-04-2018, 05:57 AM
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What if Crutcher is a fluke
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
What if Crutcher is a fluke
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Then I will be disappointed, won't be the first time. But the odds say if you're going to be a blind squirrel that finds a nut, it ain't gonna be on your first try.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:17 AM
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I don't think he's ever gonna bring in the level of talent to just out talent people. His only NCAA tourney team at Bama with an NBA player lost to Archie by double digits. He purportedly recruited well there and the SEC was down while he was there & he didn't get it done

There's no point in criticizing AG on here. He could get swept in A10 play by a fellow first year coach, who inherited a 13th place team & was playing with short handed roster. A team that lost by double digits to Fordham
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:21 AM
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So who isn't buying in to what AG is selling?

The starters? Crutcher and Jordan Davis both are freshman that seem to be buying in. DD and Landers both have raised their game under AG. Cunningham is finally able to play like the stud he was as a freshman at Bradley.


Crosby? The player that many had thought there was no hope for while Archie was still here? The player that was the starting pg until he proved that the many were right?

X? A player that looks to be hurting because he does not at all resemble the player we saw last year?

Kostas? A red shirt freshman that could not practice with the team until the second semester last year and then took off for pretty much the whole summer, getting hurt during that time? A player that really needs to put work in the weight room, put on some weight and forget that he is not either one of his brothers that honed their game on the playground?

Svoboda? A player that appears to buy in to AG but just doesn't have the talent?

Pierce? Maybe his attitude is a result of AGs approach but one that I believe had a bit of that attitude before he ever showed up on campus?

I agree AG is old school and it may not work out and if you want to use Alabama as your yardstick, it won't work out but I don' think we can base his future success or failure on anything we have seen here, this season.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post

There's no point in criticizing AG on here. He could get swept in A10 play by a fellow first year coach, who inherited a 13th place team & was playing with short handed roster. A team that lost by double digits to Fordham
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Yet we have about the same record as that team that swept us. So McCall sucks, or he's great? Make up your mind, which results do you want to cherry pick to make us look bad and his team better.

You are getting what you get with young teams, which is inconsistency and wild swings from game to game.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Yet we have about the same record as that team that swept us. So McCall sucks, or he's great? Make up your mind, which results do you want to cherry pick to make us look bad and his team better.

You are getting what you get with young teams, which is inconsistency and wild swings from game to game.
That does not seem like cherry picking. Wouldn't you say that AG has more to work with?

I think you could argue that McCall has done better, UMass has improved in the standings vs. last year.

AG, a veteran coach, took over a 1st place team at the strongest program in the conference, and we are now near the bottom of the conference.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:48 PM
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I appreciate your comments Smitty. The bottom line is that there just isn't enough talent on this team to be much more than what they are. Could they have won 2 or 3 games with John Wooden as coach? Sure. But there is no hiding the fact that this team is not deep. Every time the bench spends meaningful minutes a lead evaporates. DD is a good complimentary piece to a good ball club but just isn't good enough to put a team on his back. For a historical perspective, do you think he is anywhere near as talented as Negel Knight who, asa senior, led his team to 10 straight victories? Cunningham is a beast. Beyond those two, this team starts two Freshmen and a sophomore who played very little minutes,last year.

The bench has two Jr's who aren't producing, a freshman who could be good role player eventually, a freshman who needs to find a way to unlock enormous potential, and a freshman who will probably be gone after this year.

Next year the team gets two players who have already either practiced or played, a recruit who looks legit and probably two more as yet unknown players. Reinforcements are on the way.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That does not seem like cherry picking. Wouldn't you say that AG has more to work with?

I think you could argue that McCall has done better, UMass has improved in the standings vs. last year.

AG, a veteran coach, took over a 1st place team at the strongest program in the conference, and we are now near the bottom of the conference.
A first place team? That is about as weak of an argument as I've read on this board in a long time. Might I add a first place team that lost SIX players from last year's team!
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I think he's lacking in the flexibility of creating an identity for the players he was handed. He's going to emphasize his way only regardless if he's trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. I think he has a difficult time getting players he inherited to buy in to his system. When it comes to coaching up, I think he is lacking there also compared to his predecessor. There are others but I'm going to stop here.
I agree with all of that.

I am just afraid that we are going to go through all of this very painful transition to a new coach, and then once we reach the summit/get the system fully installed/get a full roster of AG's recruits, that we are not going to be treated to wild success.

I have seen very little that makes me think that we are on the right track.

I would have been much more comfortable staying the course with one of Archie's assistants. I was totally satisfied with the job that Archie did, and I saw zero reason to change things up by not hiring from within.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That does not seem like cherry picking. Wouldn't you say that AG has more to work with?

I think you could argue that McCall has done better, UMass has improved in the standings vs. last year.

AG, a veteran coach, took over a 1st place team at the strongest program in the conference, and we are now near the bottom of the conference.
0-3 against the two other first year coaches in the A10 but to be fair they walked into better situations & rosters
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree with all of that.

I am just afraid that we are going to go through all of this very painful transition to a new coach, and then once we reach the summit/get the system fully installed/get a full roster of AG's recruits, that we are not going to be treated to wild success.

I have seen very little that makes me think that we are on the right track.

I would have been much more comfortable staying the course with one of Archie's assistants. I was totally satisfied with the job that Archie did, and I saw zero reason to change things up by not hiring from within.
I'm frustrated as well but I do think the offense has been more fluid lately--especially when the starting five are in. The defense still remains the problem. The optimist in me would like to think a good portion of that is related to three players playing their first year (I put Trey as a first year player given his lack of playing time last year).
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:10 PM
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He is absolute garbage and no one else wanted him, that is a FACT and cannot be disputed, explain why he took the air out of the ball the last 3 possessions in regulation after every possession before that we were driving for lay ups in 5-8 secs of a possession? Horrible coaching once again
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:12 PM
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Every coach has strengths and weaknesses.
The common denominator in all coaches is stubbornness. Most are inflexible in their styles. BG runs the exact same system as Tom Izzo, yet Izzo gets away with it.

I think it is more than OK to question coaches, their strengths and weaknesses. To look at AG's resume and want him fired right now with the talent of this team is plain silly. For those who don't believe that the Neil and the committee did NO vetting on AG and hired him simply because he is a UD alum, you are flat out misguided. Neil was looking for head coaches every year AM was here. Why? because AM was a great coach and hot commodity. Neil was aware of ALL of the coaches that were available for several years.

Some criticism for AG is deserving. Other is not. The criticism for substitution is one that I think is not deserving. He has a short inept bench and perhaps one injured player. Crosby, Svoboda and Kostas have all played themselves out of minutes. At the same time, the team lacks defensive heart. What do you do? Who do you play? You send a message and play a walk on for 7 minutes. That won't win you any games today...

Not calling timeouts at St. Louis is very questionable. Not sure it would have made a difference, but college players can use a breather and settling down.

The offense would look inept at times, yet ironically their offensive efficiency is good, very good. I saw Anthony put some back door cuts in the Rhode Island game because of the way Rhode Island overplays on defense. The team could execute them in practice, but folded in the game. Poor coaching? Poor execution?

To blame Anthony on the drop in the standings from last year to this year shows a lack of understanding about college basketball.

Finally, Anthony protects his players. He won't say anything bad about the players in public. I like that. Very in Bobby Knight like. I guarantee in private he is not happy with this team.

This has become a throw away year. Very disappointing. Anthony played lineups to win every game this year but it has not happened.

The real evaluation of Anthony as a coach begins with the recruiting this offseason and what happens the next 2 years.


Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Okay, I'm going to set the record straight. I posted the gist of this in the game thread but I'm going to put it here so that I can't be accused of wanting AG fired and taking pleasure in failures.

I'll start by quickly reiterating what I think are his weaknesses and then get to why I have hope. I think he's lacking in the flexibility of creating an identity for the players he was handed. He's going to emphasize his way only regardless if he's trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. I think he has a difficult time getting players he inherited to buy in to his system. When it comes to coaching up, I think he is lacking there also compared to his predecessor. There are others but I'm going to stop here.

I believe that the only way for AG to succeed is to successfully recruit better players that are ready to contribute immediately. And I think this is his strength. He's got a knack for drawing better, ready to play recruits. I think his past coaching jobs have shown that. Now, here's what makes me think that there's a good chance that will happen here. In AM's 6 seasons, only one player was able to crack the starting lineup their freshman season. Dyshawn Pierre. The others played small roles except for Scoochie who had to play more of a role due to Khari Price's knees. Scoochie wasn't that impressive but he was stable with the ball and could eat up minutes. Next on the list would be Baby D who was forced into a major role due to a short team both physically and in availability. So nothing real impressive.

So far in one season with only one eligible recruit, Jalen Crutcher, AG is one for one. This is impressive especially since he was a desperation late recruit. Now we know our roster is short on both new and experienced talent so it was probably easier for him to crack the starting lineup, but if that was all there was I'd use that as an excuse for it happening. But Jalen Crutcher has been as impressive with the many minutes he's getting as anyone I can think of in recent history for the Flyers and that includes Dyshawn Pierre.

I can't be sure but it certainly makes me excited to see Obadiah Toppin and Dwayne Cohill take to the floor next season along with a few more that AG will bring in the next couple seasons.

So there you have it. Yes, I'm still going to blame AG a lot for the failures of this season because I think those weaknesses I mentioned above have a lot to do with them. If I look at one game and say it was Josh Cunningham's fault we lost that in no way means that I'm not thankful Josh Cunningham is on the team. If I look at a season and say Kostas was a disappointment that in no way means that I don't believe that Kostas will get better and please us in the future. I'm just dissecting what went wrong and what caused it. I'm looking at the small picture which is what we do on a topic about a game or a topic about a season.

So go ahead and keep attacking me and accusing me of not giving AG a chance, I'm not going to sugar coat single game or single season failures. I can't do it, it's not in my nature. But again, I'm real excited to see how this team performs as we get more of AG's recruits in here because after only one very successful freshman in 6 seasons by a very successful coach, I can't help to believe we could be in for some future great times with a coach who is one for one so far.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:01 PM
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Why does he get a pass this year ? Why is everyone continuing to make excuses for the same problems he has had for his 10 years of coaching ? FACTS don’t lie, his offensive scheme stinks, his in game coaching stinks, etc...
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
He is absolute garbage and no one else wanted him, that is a FACT and cannot be disputed, explain why he took the air out of the ball the last 3 possessions in regulation after every possession before that we were driving for lay ups in 5-8 secs of a possession? Horrible coaching once again
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You are truly a negative and miserable person. Your posts exemplify everything that is wrong with our current societal climate. Also, your knowledge of basketball is knee-jerk and remedial. By your idiotic logic, Archie is "absolute garbage" too? Just checking....
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Why does he get a pass this year ? Why is everyone continuing to make excuses for the same problems he has had for his 10 years of coaching ? FACTS don’t lie, his offensive scheme stinks, his in game coaching stinks, etc...
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Although, he does have 2 NCAA championship rings and he did help coach Westbrook and Durant. He might just know something when he has talent
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
BG runs the exact same system as Tom Izzo, yet Izzo gets away with it.
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

A million no's.

BG is NOT running Izzo's system. I have no idea what system BG is running, but he is not running Izzo's system.

BG's system often involved running the weave on the perimeter and then jacking up a 3 late in the shot clock. BG's system RARELY got the ball into the low post.

See the below, Izzo's system involves getting the ball into the low post MUCH more often than BG's system did.


http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31756





Watching IU play MSU posted by Gazoo

The game looked "different" from UD. I decided to start counting how many time the ball went into the post. From the time I started counting until I wrote this, the ball was thrown into the post or there was a drive to the basket (mostly post passes) on 9/13 trips.

Take a guess which team was responsible for the 4 trips without a post possession: IU, who is getting thrashed. MSU put the ball into the post on EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION.

Aaaaaaaaand, they just showed the huddle, and Archie said "it's too much on the perimeter, we need to get the ball inside."
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
Although, he does have 2 NCAA championship rings and he did help coach Westbrook and Durant. He might just know something when he has talent
What the hell are you saying besides nothing ? This is a conversation about his coaching not him being an assistant coach
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
You are truly a negative and miserable person. Your posts exemplify everything that is wrong with our current societal climate. Also, your knowledge of basketball is knee-jerk and remedial. By your idiotic logic, Archie is "absolute garbage" too? Just checking....
Give me FACTS on why he deserves to be head coach, please give me FACTS about his his mediocrity 9 year coaching career prior to UD, please give me FACTS about any NCAA school he interviewed for in the last 2 years please
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Give me FACTS on why he deserves to be head coach, please give me FACTS about his his mediocrity 9 year coaching career prior to UD, please give me FACTS about any NCAA school he interviewed for in the last 2 years please
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My God, you're an idiot. Also, learn how to write above an elementary school level. You should be embarrassed.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
My God, you're an idiot. Also, learn how to write above an elementary school level. You should be embarrassed.
Don't try to argue facts. Anyone who thinks that a 76% winning percentage at VCU is mediocre is clueless. VCU's 14-9 record this years proves that point.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:30 PM
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He coached VCU when they played in the Colonial league and was a 1 team bid, he played no one there and his record in conference got worse each year
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
My God, you're an idiot. Also, learn how to write above an elementary school level. You should be embarrassed.
Your the idiot for believing AG will lead us to the promise land, also noticed u had no facts to argue my points
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Your the idiot for believing AG will lead us to the promise land, also noticed u had no facts to argue my points
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First of all, morons like you don't listen to facts. Secondly, your poor writing skills have not shown any improvement.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:18 PM
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I see a lot that makes me feel we have a future with Anthony. I really like Crutcher's performance to-date and think he will mirror Scooch's career.

Jordan Davis is working his butt off on defense and has been called out by the Coach for his effort. He's in a shooting slump but helping in other ways. Cohill is a gem and will complement Landers and Crutcher in the offense.

AG is keeping his recruiting close to the vest, but it will be real interesting to see what we get for low block help.

Landers put to bed the accusation that he is too small for the position.

As for not picking one of Archies assistants, thank God the AD was smarter than that. None were head coach material. Would have put us back to the rescue job that Oliver was faced with.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
He is absolute garbage and no one else wanted him, that is a FACT and cannot be disputed, explain why he took the air out of the ball the last 3 possessions in regulation after every possession before that we were driving for lay ups in 5-8 secs of a possession? Horrible coaching once again
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OK, we get it. You don't like the hire, or the person. There's plenty of people with you, there are plenty who disagree.

Look back at the body of your posts. Do they appear to come from someone who has thought the entirety of the events that led up to and progressed through the season? Do they ring of someone who is close to the day to day events of the team? Or do they project the image of a person hiding behind a keyboard always willing to be judgmental, critical, and defaming of any counter opinion?

The address and phone numbers above. Might want to rethink your tact.
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
He coached VCU when they played in the Colonial league and was a 1 team bid, he played no one there and his record in conference got worse each year
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For a person who screams no excuses, your irrationalization here sounds like a bunch of excuses.

No excuses. No excuses No excuses.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
...Jordan Davis is working his butt off on defense and has been called out by the Coach for his effort. He's in a shooting slump but helping in other ways...
Thank you for mentioning this. I’ve seen some on this board criticizing J. Davis for how his offense has gone south recently. I think it might be because Coach wants Crutcher to focus on running the offense without making turnovers, so he’s having JD guard the opponent’s top backcourt threat. And, in that regard, JD is doing a decent job for a freshman (who was recruited for his offensive skills).

I think we have a good, young nucleus in the backcourt. Now, we just need more players like JD & Crutch.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Give me FACTS on why he deserves to be head coach, please give me FACTS about his his mediocrity 9 year coaching career prior to UD, please give me FACTS about any NCAA school he interviewed for in the last 2 years please
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This is so dumb, but since I don’t really care about the football game, here are some facts:

In three years at VCU, Grant led the team to records of 28-7 (16-2), 24-8 (15-3), and 24-10 (14-4). All three years, they finished first in their conference. Year 1, they beat Duke in the first round, year 2, they made the NIT, year 3, they lost in the NCAA first round. So combined record of 76-25, 45-9 in conference, two NCAA and one NIT berths. Grant recruited Joey Rodriguez and then Jamie Skeen (who transferred to VCU from Wake) among others. Those two were key in VCU’s run to the Final Four in 2011. It’s not worth getting into Shaka vs Grant because that isn’t the discussion but for sure the FF run was made with a lot of players who Grant brought in.

His Alabama tenure was not as good, to be sure. 17-15 (6-10), 25-12 (12-4), 21-12 (9-7), 23-13 (12-6), 13-19 (7-11), and 18-14 (8-10). 3 NIT bids, one NCAA bid. Overall 117-85, 54-49 in the SEC.

Overall 193-110 as a head coach before he got to Dayton. That averages out to about 21-12. I suppose one could debate if that constitutes a “mediocrity” career. I’d sure like to be better than 21-12 most years. But that’s not a fact, that is an opinion.

Some other facts: he was a long time assistant for a coach who won two NCAA titles and is a current NBA coach. He had a job as an assistant coach on a perennial NBA playoff team, and left that team mid-season to take over at Dayton in a year in which their best player won the NBA MVP, becoming the first player to average a triple-double for a full season since Bucky Bockhorn’s former backcourt mate The Big O did it.

Did he get any interviews for college jobs from 2015 until 2017? I don’t know the answer to that (probably not, right? He was an NBA assistant coach and didn’t do well his last few years in college, was not really a “hot name” and probably wouldn’t want to leave his NBA job while he had children in high school. It seems *extremely* unlikely that he would have considered another head coaching job, even if one would have been offered).

Here’s a few other facts: we currently have 1 (one) player on the roster who was recruited here by Grant. He’s our starting point guard, and is putting up bigger numbers as a freshman than Scoochie Smith did. Crutcher averages 8.5 points, 3.9 assists and 3 rebounds, with an assist/turnover ratio a little better than 2:1 (86:42) in 29.5 minutes per game.

Fact: 4 of our 5 starters from last year graduated. The 5th starter from last year missed several games with a back injury (opinion: he still isn’t 100%).

Fact: one of our juniors-to-be got in legal trouble and was dismissed from the team.

Fact: another junior-to-be had surgery on both hips and is not playing this season.

Fact: one of our incoming freshman was ruled academically ineligible and is not playing this season. Also a fact: Grant recruited Toppin so ultimately it is on him if a guy he brought in is not eligible this year (opinion: the year off is going to be good for Toppin, and in the long run, it will be better for both the program and him personally that he sat out this year to get better and stronger.).

Can we criticize individual coaching decisions, game strategy, rotations/substitutions, outcomes? Heck yeah. But let’s not ignore that we lost 4 starters from last year, the 5th has been injured, and we are short 3 roster spots. Really, we are short 4 roster spots, since one of our guys doesn’t travel to a lot of road games and seems unlikely to play again this season. Yeah, a couple years ago, we made the second round of the NCAA with 6 scholarship guys, but all 5 starters on that team were fringe NBA players (all of em have at least played in the G League and/or NBA summer league).

So again, in a lesser conference, Grant’s teams averaged about 25 wins a year, and they won the regular season conference title all three years. In a tougher conference, his teams averaged about 19 wins per season, and won their conference division just once. We currently have one active player that he recruited, and are short 3 (or 4) active roster spots. Those are all facts (calling Pierce’s roster spot “open” isn’t entirely factual). Should we have a better record than we currently do? Maybe. Is 21-12 a “garbage” season? I’d say no, but I’d like UD to do better than that. Our last coach averaged about 23-10 which is of course better than 21-12. I just kind of think maybe it is prudent to wait until there is more than one player on the active roster brought in by the current coach before judging things. That’s an opinion, not a fact.

Here’s another opinion: we’ll be a lot better next year.
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  #31  
Old 02-04-2018, 10:00 PM
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I think the biggest plus for me with AG is evaluation. At Dayton or VCU you're not just going to able to out recruit people. Whoever the coach the reality is that most of the guys we're gonna get are 3 stars.

It's being able to identify who's going to be a Brian Roberts and who's John Crosby.

Thirt, mentioned Joey Rodriguez and that's great find. Larry Sanders at VCU who played in the NBA was a non descript two star guy out of Florida.

Jalen Crutcher's recruitment there were a couple guys in the running for the scholarship. Tyler Mayes who's at VCU and had a Nebraska offer vs Crutcher. Grant IDed the right guy on that one. Maybe Mayes will be good but he hasn't shown much of anything at VCU this year.

Being able to ID the right guys out of the mass of 3 stars out there is what's gonna get talent in here. I have little positive to say about AG but I have to give him credit for it looks like an ability to do this
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
As for not picking one of Archies assistants, thank God the AD was smarter than that. None were head coach material. Would have put us back to the rescue job that Oliver was faced with.
What specifically did you not like? All 3 had enough experience to be the hc.
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:02 AM
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I think Ostrom could have ridden McKinley to a Power 5 job
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
As for not picking one of Archies assistants, thank God the AD was smarter than that. None were head coach material. Would have put us back to the rescue job that Oliver was faced with.
And look at the guys that Butler, VCU, and Xavier have hired through the years:

Brad Stevens, Todd Lickliter, Thad Matta, LaVall Jordan, Brandon Miller at Butler...all 5 with zero hc experience

Sean Miller, Pete Gillen, Chris Mack...zero hc experience...Matta and Prosser with 1 year hc experience each

Shaka Smart...zero hc experience...Will Wade with 2 mediocre years at Chattanooga, he did not make the nit or ncaat in either year at Chattanooga.




What was it about any of those guys that screamed successful head coaching material?

Last edited by ud2; 02-05-2018 at 12:53 AM..
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:48 AM
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Bring Back Ron Jirsa!
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Bring Back Ron Jirsa!
I though Ron Jirsa was an excellent addition to Purcell’s staff. He was great with big men.

He did fare well as a head coach and was never giving another chance after Marshall.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:42 AM
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I like Grant. He is a good person who represents our program well. I want Grant to be fabulously successful.

I liked BG. He was a good person who represented our program well. I wanted Gregory to be fabulously successful.

I hope this year is an aberration. I hope Grant just needs time to iron out the details & get things on track.

I hoped all those A-10 schedule swoons under Gregory we’re just an aberration. I hoped BG just needed time to iron out details & get things on track.

I was concerned when it looked like we were beginning to face the same old-same old with BG.

I am concerned that it’s beginning to look like the same old-same old with Grant...
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I like Grant. He is a good person who represents our program well. I want Grant to be fabulously successful.

I liked BG. He was a good person who represented our program well. I wanted Gregory to be fabulously successful.

I hope this year is an aberration. I hope Grant just needs time to iron out the details & get things on track.

I hoped all those A-10 schedule swoons under Gregory we’re just an aberration. I hoped BG just needed time to iron out details & get things on track.

I was concerned when it looked like we were beginning to face the same old-same old with BG.

I am concerned that it’s beginning to look like the same old-same old with Grant...
Good post Viperstick! I agree with all of your statements except the last one. I don't think you need to be concerned that it is going to look the same old-same old with Grant! Why, because Brian Gregory is not near the recruiter that Anthony Grant is. I think we would all agree that recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. I like the comparison that someone made between the recruiting philosophy of AM and AG. Archie got 3 star players and was better at coaching them up! Anthony targets 3, 4 and 5 star players and is not shy about going after any player who he thinks will enhance UD's program. I think he is already two for two with Crutcher and Toppin! You heard it here first! I believe Obadiah Toppin will be just as much a difference maker next season as Crutcher has been this season! I hear he has been looking very good in practice! I believe Dwayne Cohill will play at a high level next season and Ryan Mikesell will be a great contributor as well. We only have one scholly remaining but if any of our current players transfer I am excited because AG will continue to go after players that AM thought were too good and continue to bring in outstanding talent ready to contribute right away.

This season is an aberration and I don't think we need to worry about Anthony Grant!

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Old 02-05-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I like Grant. He is a good person who represents our program well. I want Grant to be fabulously successful.

I liked BG. He was a good person who represented our program well. I wanted Gregory to be fabulously successful.

I hope this year is an aberration. I hope Grant just needs time to iron out the details & get things on track.

I hoped all those A-10 schedule swoons under Gregory we’re just an aberration. I hoped BG just needed time to iron out details & get things on track.

I was concerned when it looked like we were beginning to face the same old-same old with BG.

I am concerned that it’s beginning to look like the same old-same old with Grant...

I have some concerns about Grant as well. I do consider these two issues:
1. Grants does not seem as inflexible. I think he is willing to adapt.
2. This team has been so erratic, that I think it has caused Grant to do things outside his comfort zone. I think he wants to substitute more. He has no bench. He wants the players to play better D, but how do you park someone on the bench for lack of effort. He feels the pressure to win now instead of build for the future. (If he wanted to play for the future, play Kostas and Matej and pray). He has had injuries. Freshman can't execute at times, get schooled and have not learned how to play defense. There are a lot of things that makes his job really difficult.

Because of this team, I am not sure we have seen the real Grant.

Grant should be able to recruit better than Gregory. The program has much more prestige than when Gregory became coach.
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
Good post Viperstick! I agree with all of your statements except the last one. I don't think you need to be concerned that it is going to look the same old-same old with Grant! Why, because Brian Gregory is not near the recruiter that Anthony Grant is. I think we would all agree that recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. I like the comparison that someone made between the recruiting philosophy of AM and AG. Archie got 3 star players and was better at coaching them up! Anthony targets 3, 4 and 5 star players and is not shy about going after any player who he thinks will enhance UD's program. I think he is already two for two with Crutcher and Toppin! You heard it here first! I believe Obadiah Toppin will be just as much a difference maker next season as Crutcher has been this season! I hear he has been looking very good in practice! I believe Dwayne Cohill will play at a high level next season and Ryan Mikesell will be a great contributor as well. We only have one scholly remaining but if any of our current players transfer I am excited because AG will continue to go after players that AM thought were too good and continue to bring in outstanding talent ready to contribute right away.

This season is an aberration and I don't think we need to worry about Anthony Grant!
My only quibble with this is basing anything Toppin might do next year on the court based on how he looks in practice.
1. It's practice
2. It's practice against our guys, who can't/won't play defense.

So, until I see him on the court against real opponents, I will withhold judgment, hope, etc.
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:11 PM
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UDScott - how about writing posts that are not inflammatory to everyone reading them. They are sometimes worse than chalk on a blackboard.

Dude...We all have frustrations this season but don't take it out on everyone else...
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:49 PM
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i just can't fathom that we have gotten NOTHING From our bench.
Nada.

OUR Bench has been a strong point the last 5 or 6 years. Getting other team winded, going 9 or 10 deep.

hahahahaha. NO more.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
I have some concerns about Grant as well. I do consider these two issues:
1. Grants does not seem as inflexible. I think he is willing to adapt.
2. This team has been so erratic, that I think it has caused Grant to do things outside his comfort zone. I think he wants to substitute more. He has no bench. He wants the players to play better D, but how do you park someone on the bench for lack of effort. He feels the pressure to win now instead of build for the future. (If he wanted to play for the future, play Kostas and Matej and pray). He has had injuries. Freshman can't execute at times, get schooled and have not learned how to play defense. There are a lot of things that makes his job really difficult.

Because of this team, I am not sure we have seen the real Grant.

Grant should be able to recruit better than Gregory. The program has much more prestige than when Gregory became coach.
Good points, STF, but I need to play Devil's Advocate with your last statement.

The program definitely has more prestige now than it did a dozen years ago. But the A-10 has less prestige now than it did a dozen years ago. Our "friends" to the south fled for greener pastures. St. Joe's is in a down cycle. GW has lost some steam. SLU needs to prove that it can return to the heights it saw when Big Rick built that program half a decade ago. And on, and on.

Can the A-10 rebound? Sure. Do I think AG is an improvement over BG? Yes. But there are still obstacles to overcome.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
(If he wanted to play for the future, play Kostas and Matej and pray).
Pure speculation but the flip side of this is that maybe he's seen all he needs to see to know if they have a future already
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:08 PM
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Very good points. I think both are right. UD has more prestige but the A10 has less prestige.
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
UDScott - how about writing posts that are not inflammatory to everyone reading them. They are sometimes worse than chalk on a blackboard.

Dude...We all have frustrations this season but don't take it out on everyone else...
do u ever read the crap people write on here ? Its like they have no clue, one example this week, did u see the guy start a thread on how UD was gonna be a top 4 seed in the A-10 tournament, is he on crack ? another example, find me an article where a coach never used a time out in a game and lost ? find me a box score where the starters of the second half played every minute plus 2 overtimes with zero substitution ? It don't exist but people on here still want to defend him, people actually on here commended him for not calling any time outs, r they on crack too ? come on man the facts don't lie and AG is below average
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And look at the guys that Butler, VCU, and Xavier have hired through the years:

Brad Stevens, Todd Lickliter, Thad Matta, LaVall Jordan, Brandon Miller at Butler...all 5 with zero hc experience

Sean Miller, Pete Gillen, Chris Mack...zero hc experience...Matta and Prosser with 1 year hc experience each

Shaka Smart...zero hc experience...Will Wade with 2 mediocre years at Chattanooga, he did not make the nit or ncaat in either year at Chattanooga.

What was it about any of those guys that screamed successful head coaching material?
So where are Miller's assistants now? They did a good job supporting Archie---apparently because Miller is the only one outside of the AD who really knew. All of them had a really good story to present. No school bought it.

Maybe your are saying we should have hired one of Xavier's assistants. That would have gone over big. We had some very high character people supporting Miller. They just weren't hc material and our AD knew it.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
So where are Miller's assistants now? They did a good job supporting Archie---apparently because Miller is the only one outside of the AD who really knew. All of them had a really good story to present. No school bought it.

Maybe your are saying we should have hired one of Xavier's assistants. That would have gone over big. We had some very high character people supporting Miller. They just weren't hc material and our AD knew it.
You did not address my post. Agree to disagree.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
T

In three years at VCU, Grant led the team to records of 28-7 (16-2), 24-8 (15-3), and 24-10 (14-4). All three years, they finished first in their conference. Year 1, they beat Duke in the first round, year 2, they made the NIT, year 3, they lost in the NCAA first round. So combined record of 76-25, 45-9 in conference, two NCAA and one NIT berths. Grant recruited Joey Rodriguez and then Jamie Skeen (who transferred to VCU from Wake) among others. Those two were key in VCU’s run to the Final Four in 2011
So Anthony Grant does a great job at VCU. Recruited several of the key players on the Final Four team. On face value pretty positive stuff

He gets fired in March 2015, Shaka leaves for Texas that off season.

The AD that hired him is gone but surely some institutional knowledge of AG's success is still there.

Very strange and I suppose lucky for us they didn't consider bringing him back
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:28 PM
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Chris Mack never interviewed for a HC job before he got Xavier
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  #51  
Old 02-05-2018, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
So Anthony Grant does a great job at VCU. Recruited several of the key players on the Final Four team. On face value pretty positive stuff

He gets fired in March 2015, Shaka leaves for Texas that off season.

The AD that hired him is gone but surely some institutional knowledge of AG's success is still there.

Very strange and I suppose lucky for us they didn't consider bringing him back
Yes, that is a very good point. Why didn't VCU bring him back?

DePaul brought back Dave Leitao.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Its like they have no clue, one example this week, did u see the guy start a thread on how UD was gonna be a top 4 seed in the A-10 tournament, is he on crack ?
Are you?

The poster never said UD was going to be a top 4 seed. The poster said it was possible. The poster said it would be tough but that he felt it was a possibility and that we had a shot.

No where did that poster say UD was going to be a top 4 seed.

Instead of trying to come up with your next rebuttal after reading the first words someone writes, try comprehending the entire post.
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  #53  
Old 02-05-2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Chris Mack never interviewed for a HC job before he got Xavier
I do not think any of the other guys on my list did either, other than Wade, Matta, Prosser, and Jordan, although I could be wrong about that. I never heard any of those other guys names being mentioned for other jobs.

Correction: Jordan had 1 mediocre year at Milwaukee: no NIT and no NCAAT

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Old 02-05-2018, 05:37 PM
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It's clear as day to me now. Anthony Grant should never been hired. Most definitely any assistant from anywhere would have been better. It is going to take the administration at least 3-4 years before they admit the mistake and hire someone else. So let's just pass the time until then by watching some games.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:45 PM
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Kuwik was mentioned in connection with the Dartmouth job in spring 2016.

https://hoopdirt.com/dartmouth-dirt-2/


Dartmouth: very pretty campus, drove through this past summer. Very pretty area.
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
So where are Miller's assistants now? They did a good job supporting Archie---apparently because Miller is the only one outside of the AD who really knew. All of them had a really good story to present. No school bought it.

Maybe your are saying we should have hired one of Xavier's assistants. That would have gone over big. We had some very high character people supporting Miller. They just weren't hc material and our AD knew it.
And what about this?

Mark Adams had Kuwik and AG as his top 2 candidates:


https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams:


EnthusiAdams Dayton Flyer Head Coaching Candidates:

EnthusiAdams Top Two Candidates:

Kevin Kuwik
o Current assistant at UD
o Assistant to Tim O’Shea at Ohio
o Assistant to Brad Stevens at Butler
o Assistant to Thad Matta at Ohio State
o Assistant to Archie Miller at UD

Anthony Grant
o Assistant coach OKC Thunder
o former head coach Alabama and VCU
o Assistant to Billy Donovan, Florida
o former Flyer great
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  #57  
Old 02-05-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
another example, find me an article where a coach never used a time out in a game and lost ?
I know you will move the goalposts after I post this, but Duquesne vs Dayton - 2009.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And what about this?

Mark Adams had Kuwik and AG as his top 2 candidates:


https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams:


EnthusiAdams Dayton Flyer Head Coaching Candidates:

EnthusiAdams Top Two Candidates:

Kevin Kuwik
o Current assistant at UD
o Assistant to Tim O’Shea at Ohio
o Assistant to Brad Stevens at Butler
o Assistant to Thad Matta at Ohio State
o Assistant to Archie Miller at UD

Anthony Grant
o Assistant coach OKC Thunder
o former head coach Alabama and VCU
o Assistant to Billy Donovan, Florida
o former Flyer great
Facebook?

Do you get your investment advice from Pinterest?

So Mark Adams had AG and KK as the 2 top candidates.
You accept his opinion as meaningful.
One of those candidates is a guy you have said should never have been hired with the evidence of his record at Alabama.
That doesn't make you question that Mark Adams may not be the best judge of coaching talent.
No, you conclude that his other candidate should have been the one hired.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
I know you will move the goalposts after I post this, but Duquesne vs Dayton - 2009.
At this point you could tell us anything and we would all buy it lock, stock and barrel.
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2018, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Facebook?

Do you get your investment advice from Pinterest?

So Mark Adams had AG and KK as the 2 top candidates.
You accept his opinion as meaningful.
One of those candidates is a guy you have said should never have been hired with the evidence of his record at Alabama.
That doesn't make you question that Mark Adams may not be the best judge of coaching talent.
No, you conclude that his other candidate should have been the one hired.
Yeah, fair enough, I can't argue with that. Lol. But, SDF does have to acknowledge that KK was in fact head coaching material.

Here is the rest of Adams' list:

EnthusiAdams Big Name Options:
John Groce
o Former head coach Illinois
o Former head coach Ohio, Sweet 16
o Former assistant to Thad Matta, Ohio State and Xavier
Tom Crean
o Former head coach, Indiana
o Former head coach, Marquette
Fran Fraschilla, ESPN
o Former head coach, New Mexico, St John’s, Manhattan
o Former assistant at Ohio
Tommy Amaker, Harvard
o Former Michigan head coach
o Former Duke player, assistant

EnthusiAdams Six Regional Head Coach Options
• Keith Dambrot, Akron
• Rob Senderoff, Kent State
• Greg Kampe, Oakland
• Dane Fife, Fort Wayne
• John Brannen, NKU
• Ron Hunter, Georgia State

EnthusiAdams Up and Coming Assistant Coach Options:
• Hubert Davis, UNC
• Mike Mennega, Oregon
• Tommy Lloyd, Gonzaga
• Greg Heier, Wichita State (sister is Shauna Green)
• Luke Murray, Xavier
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  #61  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:31 PM
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Not that I wasn't before (because let's face it, AG IS the current head coach), but now I really want him to be wildly successful so I can repost some of this nonsense in three years.

And just as day follows night, I can sure you the naysayers will serve up some other tangent as to why they are right and we are wrong...
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  #62  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Not that I wasn't before (because let's face it, AG IS the current head coach), but now I really want him to be wildly successful so I can repost some of this nonsense in three years.

And just as day follows night, I can sure you the naysayers will serve up some other tangent as to why they are right and we are wrong...
I hope you can
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  #63  
Old 02-05-2018, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Not that I wasn't before (because let's face it, AG IS the current head coach), but now I really want him to be wildly successful so I can repost some of this nonsense in three years.

And just as day follows night, I can sure you the naysayers will serve up some other tangent as to why they are right and we are wrong...
There is only one who will go postal and repeat his research to the point of being sleepless.
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:23 PM
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
As for not picking one of Archies assistants, thank God the AD was smarter than that. None were head coach material.
More like a "safe pick" for the first big hire of an AD.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
More like a "safe pick" for the first big hire of an AD.
I thinking picking one of Archie's assistants would have been a safer pick than AG. AG was safer than an assistant from another program.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I like Grant. He is a good person who represents our program well. I want Grant to be fabulously successful.

I liked BG. He was a good person who represented our program well. I wanted Gregory to be fabulously successful.

I hope this year is an aberration. I hope Grant just needs time to iron out the details & get things on track.

I hoped all those A-10 schedule swoons under Gregory we’re just an aberration. I hoped BG just needed time to iron out details & get things on track.

I was concerned when it looked like we were beginning to face the same old-same old with BG.

I am concerned that it’s beginning to look like the same old-same old with Grant...
Me too. Depending on the day, I'm cautiously optimistic or deeply concerned.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
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You do realize you set yourself up for.....

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Old 02-05-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I thinking picking one of Archie's assistants would have been a safer pick than AG. AG was safer than an assistant from another program.
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...and enable McKinley Wright to suit up-Ostrom. Can’t look back...we’ll be fine.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
There is only one who will go postal and repeat his research to the point of being sleepless.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That likely is not going to happen as I do not think that I am wrong.

Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I thinking picking one of Archie's assistants would have been a safer pick than AG. AG was safer than an assistant from another program.
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Just the opposite for me. Grant, the well-qualified former hc and former NBA assistant, was the safe pick, the unknown, unproven assistant was the riskier pick.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That does not seem like cherry picking. Wouldn't you say that AG has more to work with?

AG, a veteran coach, took over a 1st place team at the strongest program in the conference, and we are now near the bottom of the conference.
Took over a first place team who graduated. What he took over was a team that graduated it's seniors and was left with a undeveloped underclassmen squad along with injury.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
He is absolute garbage and no one else wanted him, that is a FACT and cannot be disputed, explain why he took the air out of the ball the last 3 possessions in regulation after every possession before that we were driving for lay ups in 5-8 secs of a possession? Horrible coaching once again
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Really, calling him garbage is over the top! You have serious mental health issues, including severe depression. We all get it, you hate Grant but nothing you do is going to replace him. All your ranting is doing nothing but giving us cause to question your sanity. FYI I wasn't totally thrilled with his hire but he is our coach so I support him.

I've had season tickets for over 48 years and lived thru the Jim O'Brian years which makes Grant a divine savior.

I would liked to see you banned from this board.
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:05 AM
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer2 View Post
Took over a first place team who graduated. What he took over was a team that graduated it's seniors and was left with a undeveloped underclassmen squad along with injury.
....And I'd say UD was NOT the strongest program in the conference.There were a couple peers. Sure, they won/tied a couple titles but never won both the conference and conf. tourney, were a quick out in the NCAA tourney the last 2 years with multiple veteran players who looked like a HS team compared to their foes and could not even run efficient offensive plays, and had 2-3 players (mainly KD and KP) that, while very good athletes and BB players, were very undersized for their positions and limited from an offensive standpoint.

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  #75  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:59 AM
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To be fair Syracuse went to the Final Four and WSU had a pretty good team
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  #76  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
AG, a veteran coach, took over a 1st place team at the strongest program in the conference, and we are now near the bottom of the conference.
I assume you're just joking with this post, or maybe you simply forgot that we lost four senior starters and two top subs, and that one of our best returnees has been hurting all season.
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  #77  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:54 PM
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I assume you're just joking with this post, or maybe you simply forgot that we lost four senior starters and two top subs, and that one of our best returnees has been hurting all season.
No, not joking. I thought this was at least a NIT team this year. I am not agreeing with all the posters characterizing this as a rebuilding year. Agree to disagree. I was not expecting a possible. 500 or sub .500 team at all. One down year is not the end though. Grant will be given a fair amount of time to get things turned around.

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Old 02-06-2018, 11:15 PM
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I’m not sure how anyone saw this as “at least an NIT year.” They had one — ONE — proven commodity returning, Xerious Williams. And with his health issues, that proven commodity has been unproven. Baby D was a much-maligned role player whose offense this year has been a pleasant, even unexpected surprise. No one knew what we’d have in Josh Cunningham coming off an injury-plagued year, but he’s been a beast. And John Crosby at PG!?? Puh-lease. Other than that, all we knew was that four seniors, a coach and arguably the two best incoming recruits were history.

So where, praytell, did you have confidence that this was “at least an NIT team?” Your clairvoyance was either badly misguided, perhaps fueled by unrealistic expectations that a bunch of freshmen and a totally untested Trey Landers were game changers, or your rose-colored glasses blinded you. Anthony Grant has yet to prove himself at Dayton, for sure, but no one could reasonably have forecast anything other than the kind of mediocre season we’re having.

Frankly, yours is a straw man argument used primarily to beef up your anti-Grant projections. You may be right long-term in that AG might not pan out. But his credentials won’t be judged by this sorry season anymore than Archie’s resume would have had he stayed. He’ll be judged — as he should be — by the next two-three seasons with his recruits on the floor and his system firmly rooted.

He’s not a miracle worker. And this inexperienced, unevenly talented roster proves it, because the only way it was tournament bound was with a miracle worker at the helm.

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Old 02-06-2018, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I’m not sure how anyone saw this as “at least an NIT year.” They had one — ONE — proven commodity returning, Xerious Williams. And with his health issues, that proven commodity has been unproven. Baby D was a much-maligned role player whose offense this year has been a pleasant, even unexpected surprise. No one knew what we’d have in Josh Cunningham coming off an injury-plagued year, but he’s been a beast. And John Crosby at PG!?? Puh-lease. Other than that, all we knew was that four seniors, a coach and arguably the two best incoming recruits were history.

So where, praytell, did you have confidence that this was “at least an NIT team?” Your clairvoyance was either badly misguided, perhaps fueled by unrealistic expectations that a bunch of freshmen and a totally untested Trey Landers were game changers, or your rose-colored glasses blinded you.
I am skeptical. Coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances, the best streak in school history, and an A10 league title, you mean to tell me that the majority of people on here thought we might be below .500 this year? Sorry, I just am not buying that.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:18 AM
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I think anybody who thought this would be at least an NIT season thought that Kostas and Svoboda would be MUCH better than they have been, and obviously didn't know that X would be hurting all season. They also probably thought Crosby would have improved more than he has, and that Pierce would at least make some minor contribution.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:54 AM
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I admit I had higher expectations than what has turned out. Of course, I was expecting Josh to be 100%, which he has been, but also X, Miller, and Mikesell to be at least as good if not better than last year. Well, Miller is gone, Mikesell had surgery and is out for the year, and X has we assume a balky back. I did expect significantly more from Kostas, given that he had an entire year to work out/practice with the team, not to mention working out with his brother. I also expected more from Svoboda, since he is basically a Jr in age and supposedly played against pretty good competition. In fact, at one point, my biggest worry was whether Crosby could lead the team and that we only had 1 PG on the roster.

So on paper, yes, this team should have been significantly better than it has been. But, you add in the injuries, the Miller incident, players underperforming, etc., and it's easy enough to see how we got here. In another dimension, Crutcher is still taking over from Crosby but we have our full complement of players and this team probably has at least 4-6 wins more than it does right now, no one is complaining about AG (well, most aren't), and we probably are looking at a top 4 finish in A-10 and at least NIT.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:14 AM
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I thought we had a chance at an NIT bid this year and honestly if our defense was better we probably would be this year. We almost beat an Mississippi State that's surging towards an NCAA bid right now.

It's not that inconceivable we beat them along with one more win in Charleston and Penn. That's 9-3 in OOC, 10-11 wins in A10 play with a win or two in tourney and we're in the conversation.

Look at our schedule and look at our team. Coming up with 20-21 wins this year isn't that unbelievable. If we played some semblance of defense this year and tried to feed Cunningham then very possible.

I thought X was gonna take another leap forward and be an all conference caliber player. Look at the guy at the end of the St. Mary's game versus at Rhode Island.

Maybe you missed his February and March last year. For a guy a who was a clear 3-4 option he played pretty well. Figgie had 3rd on the time in plus/minus stats

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...yrius-williams


As Longtimefan points, I think most of us thought we'd get more out of Kostas and Matej. I personally thought Kostas would be a good defender and rebounder with his athleticism. The type of guy that could slow down the Aldridge and Kavanaugh type bigs who torch us

Matej is 21 and was the second leading scorer in an international behind a guy who was a lottery pick. Don't think the idea he'd produce more than he has is some ludicrous projection

Please, go in and calm down expectations in the Cohill thread because he's right around the same ranking as Kostas

I realize there's a defend AG regardless of reality faction of the fan base but give me a break that competing for a NIT bid is an unreasonable exception.
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  #84  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am skeptical. Coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances, the best streak in school history, and an A10 league title, you mean to tell me that the majority of people on here thought we might be below .500 this year? Sorry, I just am not buying that.
It isn't what the initial expectations were, it is that certain expectations weren't tempered at all after the OOC. I believe I initially had us around 17 wins and adjusted that after the first two weeks of the season. I figured an NIT bid as well.

We all had high hopes for this season for reasons mentioned. I don't think that there is any issue with those high hopes as we as fans were accustomed to that. Instead of overplaying the Mendoza Line, the high expectations of a returning XW, a veteran and older European player, true big in Pierce, a guy that is touted to be better than his NBA brother, new coach, highly anticipated freshman....needed to be tempered after seeing the outcome on the floor.

XW injury issues. Kostas is what he is right now and is where he is for reasons unknown to us. Svoboda's practice game isn't translating to the 40 minutes that count, Pierce is a no show, freshman are playing like freshman with flashes of brilliance, AG is an unknown. Crosby is giving us what was expected, probably less with Crutcher giving more. Trey overplaying where most had him. Cunningham doing what was expected and DD playing as expected. No Miller. No Mikesell.

If a fan didn't adjust their expectations from the fall until now, then they set themselves up for failure and have no one to blame but themselves.

Yes, it sucks as a fan to see the record. It sucks even more for the guys on the floor. Some people have the idea that this program and team will be an E8 team every year...because that is probably where they actually appeared as a fan. Not people like most of us who have followed the program for nearly 40 years.

Tempered expectations made this season much easier on me as a die hard fan. I wish I had those same expectations prior to the AM years and I would have been much better off putting up with the early BG years. Let's just hope this doesn't end up as the later BG years.
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  #85  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am skeptical. Coming off 4 straight NCAAT appearances, the best streak in school history, and an A10 league title, you mean to tell me that the majority of people on here thought we might be below .500 this year? Sorry, I just am not buying that.
If you know ANYTHING about how a team is constructed then you would probably understand a bit more how things work. Problem with you, and others, is you buy into how great Greek Freak 2 was going to be based on his brother and some of the vibes we got based on how he practiced last year, that Crosby would automatically be an improvement, that no injuries would happen, no academic concerns, that they would just walk over all teams that came into the Arena which would have certainly increased their win total, and that all of a sudden the freshman knew how to play D,etc.

Well, all of that has/hasn't happened to this team. You lose Mikesell with huge experience and very key in their offense, Miller (experienced,can shoot and a big body), X Williams having back issues, big man in Toppin ineligible, 2-3 freshman playing a ton, Landers who played virtually no mpg last season playing enormous minutes, and basically a scrub in Baby D the past 2 seasons being your leading scorer and "go to" guy.

Add in you lost probably your 2 best recruits with Archie leaving, you bring in a new coaching staff trying to implement their style and, really, it's very very simple to see how this team has struggled to the tune of even a .500 record.

You simply have issues facing reality...
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  #86  
Old 02-07-2018, 10:28 AM
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Bady D wasn't a scrub the past two years, patently unfair to him
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  #87  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:17 AM
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Forget about everything else - we are not getting enough out of XW, Svoboda and Kostas to be more successful this season. Is that AG's fault.


XW - I don't think so. He has been hurt.
Svoboda - I don't think so. He has been given chances and he is what he is. Maybe next year after a longer adjustment period we will see it.
Kostas - Maybe AG could do more to utilize him. I'd like to see it. I don't think Kostas dedicated himself to improving over last summer and he got hurt. We don't know what is going on at practice or behind the scenes.
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  #88  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Forget about everything else - we are not getting enough out of XW, Svoboda and Kostas to be more successful this season. Is that AG's fault.


XW - I don't think so. He has been hurt.
Svoboda - I don't think so. He has been given chances and he is what he is. Maybe next year after a longer adjustment period we will see it.
Kostas - Maybe AG could do more to utilize him. I'd like to see it. I don't think Kostas dedicated himself to improving over last summer and he got hurt. We don't know what is going on at practice or behind the scenes.
And in fairness to Kostas,besides the injury which caused him to miss lots of practice time, he lost his father in the fall..We'll never know how that affected him just from an everyday standpoint.....
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  #89  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I’m not sure how anyone saw this as “at least an NIT year.” They had one — ONE — proven commodity returning, Xerious Williams. And with his health issues, that proven commodity has been unproven. Baby D was a much-maligned role player whose offense this year has been a pleasant, even unexpected surprise. No one knew what we’d have in Josh Cunningham coming off an injury-plagued year, but he’s been a beast. And John Crosby at PG!?? Puh-lease. Other than that, all we knew was that four seniors, a coach and arguably the two best incoming recruits were history.

So where, praytell, did you have confidence that this was “at least an NIT team?” Your clairvoyance was either badly misguided, perhaps fueled by unrealistic expectations that a bunch of freshmen and a totally untested Trey Landers were game changers, or your rose-colored glasses blinded you. Anthony Grant has yet to prove himself at Dayton, for sure, but no one could reasonably have forecast anything other than the kind of mediocre season we’re having.

Frankly, yours is a straw man argument used primarily to beef up your anti-Grant projections. You may be right long-term in that AG might not pan out. But his credentials won’t be judged by this sorry season anymore than Archie’s resume would have had he stayed. He’ll be judged — as he should be — by the next two-three seasons with his recruits on the floor and his system firmly rooted.

He’s not a miracle worker. And this inexperienced, unevenly talented roster proves it, because the only way it was tournament bound was with a miracle worker at the helm.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...y-madness/amp/

None other than Jerry Palm, the bracketology guy for CBS, had us in the first four out last July
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  #90  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...y-madness/amp/

None other than Jerry Palm, the bracketology guy for CBS, had us in the first four out last July
Outstanding post!
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  #91  
Old 02-08-2018, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
And in fairness to Kostas,besides the injury which caused him to miss lots of practice time, he lost his father in the fall..We'll never know how that affected him just from an everyday standpoint.....
Personal experience here. I lost my dad when I was 25 years old. I was devastated. And I was born, bred, and buttered here in Dayton. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose your dad at age 19 or 20, when you're 400 miles away in school, and in your 3rd country of residency.

Very true. We'll never know how that affected him.
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  #92  
Old 02-08-2018, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...y-madness/amp/

None other than Jerry Palm, the bracketology guy for CBS, had us in the first four out last July
Right... when we thought Miller, Mikesell, and Toppin would be playing, we didn’t know Xeyrius had a bad back... shouldn’t those factors affect expectations?

I saw substantial improvement in several areas last night. The one active player on the roster recruited by Grant has 18 assists and 1 turnover in the last 2 games.
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  #93  
Old 02-08-2018, 07:23 AM
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I don't think adjusting expectations level down to the NIT after that is unreasonable. This isn't Wright State
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...y-madness/amp/

None other than Jerry Palm, the bracketology guy for CBS, had us in the first four out last July

Sure Jerry Palm's July bracketology is so reliable.

He has Vanderbilt (3-8; 9-15) as a last 4 in.
He has Wisconsin (3-9; 10-15) as an 8 seed.
He has Minnesota (3-10; 9-15) as a 5 seed.

There may be more. I did not have to look that hard to pick out these 3.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:33 AM
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What is Dayton doing spending $72 million to renovate the arena, $7.1 million on the Cronin center & millions of dollars on coaches salaries if it doesn't expect to be the NCAA/NIT contention every year?
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Personal experience here. I lost my dad when I was 25 years old. I was devastated. And I was born, bred, and buttered here in Dayton. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose your dad at age 19 or 20, when you're 400 miles away in school, and in your 3rd country of residency.

Very true. We'll never know how that affected him.
Exactly- lost my dad very unexpectedly when I was 36 and i was in a daze for 6-9 months. You cannot calculate the impact of something like that. I can tell you this- it definitely affected my work performance. Assuming he stays we’ll see a completely different player next year in KA. And i add, he gets a pass from me this year just because of his age.
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
What is Dayton doing spending $72 million to renovate the arena, $7.1 million on the Cronin center & millions of dollars on coaches salaries if it doesn't expect to be the NCAA/NIT contention every year?
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I don't think there is a question that UD desires/expects/strives to be in the NCAA/NIT every year and it wasn't totally unreasonable to think back in July (before all the things that THirt listed, happened) that an NIT bid was a possiblity but as the saying goes - sh!t happens.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Right... when we thought Miller, Mikesell, and Toppin would be playing, we didn’t know Xeyrius had a bad back... shouldn’t those factors affect expectations?

I saw substantial improvement in several areas last night. The one active player on the roster recruited by Grant has 18 assists and 1 turnover in the last 2 games.
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I was thinking NIT after those things happened.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:25 AM
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Anthony Grant was masterful last night. Every button he pushed was the right one. The game plan was a stroke of genius and he had the players well prepared, both mentally and physically. The Flyers shot 64% for the game and 83% in the 2nd half. 57% from behind the arc and 82% from the foul line. They also had a team assist to turnover ratio of 2-to-1.

It's obvious to me that AG just coached his best game as a Flyer and is a genius.

Summary - Coaches look really smart when players are making shots. And when players aren't making shots? Well then..............until the next game.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Kuwik was mentioned in connection with the Dartmouth job in spring 2016.

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