another domino falls...

[Medford]

Perhaps he shouldn't speak out about it, but perhaps Jim Delany wants him to let that info "slip"

The B12/ACC start spreading rumors that they are considering an alliance, so the B10 who is considering several ACC schools lets it slip that they are still considering expansion. In other words, don't get too settled if your in the ACC, we may have a home for you.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ud69 I think Gee has a permanent case of foot-in-mouth disease.

Add another one to the Gordon Gee malprops. He tweeted last night that he was at the OSU-Wisconsin game. The problem was the game is tonight.

[Bat'71]

The possible Big XII/ACC alliance ("gentleman's agreement") wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on should things begin to heat up. If the Big Ten targets UVA, UNC of GT all bets are off. Now, according to Dr. Gee, if the Big Ten is looking to expand East and South as well as "several Midwest Universities", who naturally comes to mind...it ain't Iowa State or Kansas State...it's ND, and undermining the ACC is a way to bring them into the fold. If that happens, the Big XII may raid the ACC for FSU, Clemson and Louisville. As far as the PAC XII is concerned, it would probably have to use the MTW the same way the Big Ten has used the ACC; maybe not ideal but a viable option. It almost seems like the Big Ten is playing three-dimensional chess while the other conferences are playing checkers. Only time will tell, of course, but it's doubtful things will settle down for long.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 The possible Big XII/ACC alliance ("gentleman's agreement") wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on should things begin to heat up. If the Big Ten targets UVA, UNC of GT all bets are off. Now, according to Dr. Gee, if the Big Ten is looking to expand East and South as well as "several Midwest Universities", who naturally comes to mind...it ain't Iowa State or Kansas State...it's ND, and undermining the ACC is a way to bring them into the fold. If that happens, the Big XII may raid the ACC for FSU, Clemson and Louisville. As far as the PAC XII is concerned, it would probably have to use the MTW the same way the Big Ten has used the ACC; maybe not ideal but a viable option. It almost seems like the Big Ten is playing three-dimensional chess while the other conferences are playing checkers. Only time will tell, of course, but it's doubtful things will settle down for long.

Each of the major conferences has a dozen+ schools. And there are factors at work that speculators like us haven't a clue about. For example, did anyone know of Maryland's dire athletics finances? After the Big Ten deal was made public, finances were just about all that UM officials discussed, e.g., "At last, we're saved!"

And Tennessee? The athletics department annual debt payment is the same as UD's total budget for athletics. But, UT will have no savior....the SEC money is probably the best or at least equal to that of any conference. What will save UT?

Now, it's not unreasonable to suppose that one or two other ACC schools are in a the financial stew...and perhaps one or two in the Big 12...The Big Ten? I doubt it....something about those mid-west values.

In any case, those of us having the BB-only mentality can't imagine the financial impact of FBS FB at the highest level. The average SEC assistant FB coach earns $750K. Michigan spent a quarter of a billion....with a "B"....to renovate its FB stadium.

UD will never join such ranks. But, if we wind up with the C7 and really do see our TV money rise from ~$350K to ~$3 million....that is a bit of a quantum leap that the UD athletic administrators will have to adjust to.

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer The average SEC assistant FB coach earns $750K.

Not to quibble, but this isn't true. Defensive/offensive coordinators at the SEC can make a bunch of money - $500k -$800k plus for the top guys and one guy makes over $1 million. But the position coaches - line/backs/etc - are way, way below that. The position coaches earn well into the 6 figures in the SEC, but nowhere near $750k. But to your point, no one goes hungry.

Outside the SEC, the ranges are huge even within a conference like the Big 10. MAC schools don't pay much especially at the position level, but the head coaches do pretty well. Division II doesn't pay anything.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?...ncf&id=8428421

[AustinFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...2_a9&eref=sihp 1) The C7 look like they'll need to find a new name. 2) Some schmuck of a school is going to buy the snake oil this guy's selling. 3) The comments at the bottom are worth reading.

I like the suggested rebranding: "The Big East Conference Featuring Conference USA"

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 The possible Big XII/ACC alliance ("gentleman's agreement") wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on should things begin to heat up. If the Big Ten targets UVA, UNC of GT all bets are off. Now, according to Dr. Gee, if the Big Ten is looking to expand East and South as well as "several Midwest Universities", who naturally comes to mind...it ain't Iowa State or Kansas State...it's ND, and undermining the ACC is a way to bring them into the fold. If that happens, the Big XII may raid the ACC for FSU, Clemson and Louisville. As far as the PAC XII is concerned, it would probably have to use the MTW the same way the Big Ten has used the ACC; maybe not ideal but a viable option. It almost seems like the Big Ten is playing three-dimensional chess while the other conferences are playing checkers. Only time will tell, of course, but it's doubtful things will settle down for long.

When he speaks of the Midwest, although you're probably right about Notre Dame, I also suspect that a school like Kansas may also be a possibility, maybe even Missouri as well. However there are reasons why both schools may be difficult to obtain.

[Fan4allUDSports]

While I can see Kansas and even Notre Dame, why on earth would Mizzou leave the SEC?

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by Fan4allUDSports While I can see Kansas and even Notre Dame, why on earth would Mizzou leave the SEC?

There's probably no good reason for them to do so. While I do think that they would be a better fit in the Big Ten and I do believe (from what I've heard) that there are higher-ups at Mizzou that would prefer to be in the Big Ten, I don't know that it's realistic. It's just something I'd like to see to have Delaney reach out to them.

[Bat'71]

My recollection was that the Big Ten passed on Missouri when it invited Nebraska to join. For some reason, the Big Ten didn't want to go there and it left Mizzu dangling out there for the SEC to pick up.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 My recollection was that the Big Ten passed on Missouri when it invited Nebraska to join. For some reason, the Big Ten didn't want to go there and it left Mizzu dangling out there for the SEC to pick up.

Your memory does not fail you. I think it was a mistake, particularly if the conference is really going to go to 16 and beyond.

[ud2]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but there are over 2,600 replies, why stop now?





A North Carolina judge has denied the University of Maryland's motion to dismiss the ACC's lawsuit vs. Maryland regarding the ACC trying to get Maryland to pay its $52 million ACC exit fee.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/judge...ss-acc-lawsuit


"Maryland counsel argued that a North Carolina court, where the ACC suit was filed, has no jurisdiction over Maryland and that the university has sovereign immunity from such suits."



The Maryland counsel's argument sounds pretty flimsy to me. Sovereign immunity??? I guess Maryland had to try something.

[Bill Elwood]

Originally Posted by ud2 Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but there are over 2,600 replies, why stop now? A North Carolina judge has denied the University of Maryland's motion to dismiss the ACC's lawsuit vs. Maryland regarding the ACC trying to get Maryland to pay its $52 million ACC exit fee. http://m.nbcsports.com/content/judge...ss-acc-lawsuit "Maryland counsel argued that a North Carolina court, where the ACC suit was filed, has no jurisdiction over Maryland and that the university has sovereign immunity from such suits." The Maryland counsel's argument sounds pretty flimsy to me. Sovereign immunity??? I guess Maryland had to try something.

At least for now, a wiser head prevails. However, with more time, Maryland will still leave and the $52 million will get drastically watered down.

[Medford]

I thought this was interesting. Surprising, no; Interesting, yes:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...WS01/302180097

goes to show the uphill battle the future Big East is facing. President Ono is actively campaigning for a spot in the ACC, while also being involved in future television negotiations for the Big East.

[bobber]

That's why the new Big East can't get squat for its TV deal. The networks all know the best schools will be gone in the next few years, hence they get way less TV money that the C7 schools.

And while we are at it, what the C7 has/will have is solid. It is a league of like schools with no intention of leaving at the first offer. That means a lot to the TV people who realize they can sign a long-term deal with the C7 without fear of getting burned. And with stability comes the opportunity to build name and brand recognition.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by Bill Elwood At least for now, a wiser head prevails. However, with more time, Maryland will still leave and the $52 million will get drastically watered down.

I agree, Maryland is going to get what they want eventually. This was just the first battle.

[bobber]

If this was posted before, a thousand pardons, Sahib.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...orgia-tech-acc

[ud2]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-...71--ncaaf.html


WVU, less than a year into being a member of the Big 12, is already complaining about the time and trouble involved with their arduous travel schedule. They are asking for the Big 12 to work with them to make their travel schedule easier.

I do feel a little bad for WVU, they were in a tight spot when the ACC passed over them and instead chose Pittsburgh and Syracuse, but, at the same time, WVU knew full well what they were getting themselves into.

Somebody should send this article to the c7 presidents and make sure they realize just how far Creighton and Omaha, Nebraska are from the East Coast.



Edit: if WVU had waited, I bet they could've got the spot that went to Louisville, when Maryland left.

[bobber]

Spot on, UD2. The talk about Gonzaga and even St. Marys is still going on on some of the boards. They can't be thinking straight.

[Bat'71]

Why the Big XII picked up WVU without (or instead of) adding UofL and Cinci at the same time didn't seem to make a lot of sense. Logistically, getting teams (people) in and out of Morgantown is a helluva lot harder than Cinci or Louisville*, the weather is obviously worse (especially for Spring Sports) and the culture shock among the Institutions involved has to be striking.

*Commercial air traffic into and out of Morgantown pales in comparison to what's available in Cinci or Louisville. While Charters may be financially justifiable for FB and BB, these are harder to rationalize for Golf, Tennis, Track and Field, Soccer, Baseball, etc. Geeze, the travel schedules have to be a nightmare. This situation may serve as a cautionary tale for schools/conferences looking to expand their geographic footprint beyond natural limits.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Somebody should send this article to the c7 presidents and make sure they realize just how far Creighton and Omaha, Nebraska are from the East Coast.

I, too, hope that the C7 guys are paying attention. But, WVU is in a far worse situation. WVU is truly isolated from all Big 12 member schools....none are near.

In contrast, while CU is a long way from the east cost (~1200 mi from Phila), Omaha is much closer to the group of schools that would constitute the new conference's mid-west division. CU teams still would have to travel east occasionally.....but many/most of their team's games would be against mid-west rivals.

Still, Omaha's location is an issue...and I hope the C7 leaders are paying attention to that.

God only knows what they're really thinking.

[Medford]

I'm not quite sure if this article indicates that Fox would have paid the new Big East 2 mil if they changed names, or if the deal would have been lowered by 2 mil should they change names (and the c7 takes the title of Big East with them)

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...v-negotiations

It may not matter, b/c the author doesn't know if that clause was included in ESPN's final deal w/ whatever the football schools will be playing in next season.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Although the ACC's Grant of Rights probably sealed the deal, the fact that the B1G took on its first ever affiliate member for a single sport--Johns Hopkins--to establish a lacrosse league probably all but guarantees that Virginia and North Carolina are staying put for the foreseeable future. Point being, if the B1G really thought it could have UVa or UNC (both of which have lacrosse programs that would give the conference the minimum required for an automatic bid), it probably would not have taken on an affiliate member.

[singlet_of_truth]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 Although the ACC's Grant of Rights probably sealed the deal, the fact that the B1G took on its first ever affiliate member for a single sport--Johns Hopkins--to establish a lacrosse league probably all but guarantees that Virginia and North Carolina are staying put for the foreseeable future. Point being, if the B1G really thought it could have UVa or UNC (both of which have lacrosse programs that would give the conference the minimum required for an automatic bid), it probably would not have taken on an affiliate member.

I'm not sure about that. Everything that I have read indicates that the John Hopkins move (I didn't realize that was official yet) was all about one thing - research money which is evidently massive with JH. The Big Ten's moves from that perspective have been brilliant - they really are developing a R&D/funding network that has no comparison anywhere.

I wouldn't count UNC/UVA out quite yet.

Related article:

http://sportsrighting.com/2013/02/01...florida-state/

[rollo]

Sir Singlet, that wuz a good link...but do you have any links that'll help me get rid o' this headache? Not sure how long I can take it...it's tough to fight when yer head feels like its suploding.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth I'm not sure about that. Everything that I have read indicates that the John Hopkins move (I didn't realize that was official yet) was all about one thing - research money which is evidently massive with JH. The Big Ten's moves from that perspective have been brilliant - they really are developing a R&D/funding network that has no comparison anywhere. I wouldn't count UNC/UVA out quite yet. Related article: http://sportsrighting.com/2013/02/01...florida-state/

In my opinion, the guy that wrote that article is totally around the bend. Conferennce realignment is about sports....FB in particular....not about research budgets.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth I'm not sure about that. Everything that I have read indicates that the John Hopkins move (I didn't realize that was official yet) was all about one thing - research money which is evidently massive with JH. The Big Ten's moves from that perspective have been brilliant - they really are developing a R&D/funding network that has no comparison anywhere. I wouldn't count UNC/UVA out quite yet. Related article: http://sportsrighting.com/2013/02/01...florida-state/

Sorry, meant to link it:

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-lacro...060313aah.html

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer In my opinion, the guy that wrote that article is totally around the bend. Conferennce realignment is about sports....FB in particular....not about research budgets.

As true as that is, if there is one thing that has been consistent about B1G expansion, it's that they are still bringing in strong academic institutions, even if you think that's lip service or a secondary concern. The Johns Hopkins addition fits the mold of everything the conference is doing. I don't expect there to be many other affiliate members for the B1G--this will almost certainly be the only exception to the rule.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 As true as that is, if there is one thing that has been consistent about B1G expansion, it's that they are still bringing in strong academic institutions, even if you think that's lip service or a secondary concern. The Johns Hopkins addition fits the mold of everything the conference is doing. I don't expect there to be many other affiliate members for the B1G--this will almost certainly be the only exception to the rule.

Cleveland, in the medical profession there is a saying intended to keep doctor's on track. "When you hear hoof beats, don't think zebras".

I think that applies here. The Big doesn't have some grand elaborate plan involving JH....the Big wants a lacrosse team, the best it can get,....and that's Hopkins. The other top lacrosse teams are in power conferences.

[jack72]

The Big 10 is expanding based on research dollars and academics? Sure and so is the A10 and new Big East and SEC. Just go ask Mr. Gee.

I guess the Big 10 is looking for the big edge in the Academic Challenge Bowl next year.

[ud69]

Definition-

Hubris - exaggerated pride or self-confidence

alternate spellings - B1G or Gee

[ClevelandFlyer05]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Cleveland, in the medical profession there is a saying intended to keep doctor's on track. "When you hear hoof beats, don't think zebras". I think that applies here. The Big doesn't have some grand elaborate plan involving JH....the Big wants a lacrosse team, the best it can get,....and that's Hopkins. The other top lacrosse teams are in power conferences.

Yeah, yeah Occam's shaver...but there's a can of Barbasol here, too, though. Don't be surprised if Hopkins joins the CIC in the next year or two.

[singlet_of_truth]

I don't think you can dismiss the R&D aspect so easily. The dollars are truly staggering and make the football numbers look like chump change. What I don't know is how those dollars are allocated - if at all - among the various programs and schools. Presumably there is some sharing for efficiency and study related purposes.

[Gem City]

I am a little surprised that we haven't been discussing E. Gordon Gee's comments all weekend. First off, man is that guy a total douche bag!

Ok, now that I've gotten that out of the way I can move onto the substance of what he said. I believe we did actually learn a few thing from our old friend E. Gordon Gee. Number one, all this speculation about the BCS conferences consolidating power into four or five major conferences and then leaving the NCAA would appear to be more than just speculation. As a matter of fact, after reading E. Gordon Gee's comments I would say it's almost a certainty. It sounds like it's just a matter of time at this point.

Second, Gordon's comments about the academic reputations of Louisville and Kentucky being a factor in expansion was a little eye opening to me. It goes to show you the level of ego and elitism of these university presidents that are making these decisions. In some ways it validates some of the rumors we've heard about the Georgetown and Marquette presidents not wanting Dayton in the Big East. I'm sure in their snob world of black tie dinners and evening cocktail parties the thought of their ivory towers of higher education being associated with some hick, backwater school like Dayton is just unpalatable. I mean how would they explain it to the guys at country club.

Now, if the BCS schools do leave the NCAA, man oh man, would that be a major game changer. If and when it happens, all the hand ringing about being left out of the Big East will pretty much be a moot point. There would be a clear separation between the BCS royalty and the unwashed masses. Big East vs A-10, it really doesn't matter. You are either in the elite club or you're not in the club. Even the mighty programs like Marquette and Georgetown would be left on the outside with the rest of us peasant mid-major programs.

The question is what kind of impact would this have on our program? I personally think it would have very little impact on UD. The Flyer Faithful won't stop going to games because Ohio State and Michigan took their ball and went home. We're still going to be watching the Flyers with 10,000 of our closest friends. UD might actually thrive in such a new environment because we'd be one of the few programs that could maintain a fairly large fan base. The difference is that it might really kill programs like a Georgetown or a Villanova. These are fan bases from major markets that are use to running with the big boys. I'm not sure the casual fan in Philly or New York are going to be content with watching what would be considered the minor leagues of college basketball. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Either way, this roller coaster ride is far from over.

On the flip side, I really think the BCS schools need the mid-major programs more than they are probably willing to admit. In terms of basketball, the David vs. Goliath tournament teams make for truly compelling TV. I mean Florida Gulf Coast was a real feel good story. It was almost must watch TV. The annual mid-major tournament run always makes for compelling TV. On the football side, the BCS need the lowly MAC programs to pad their schedules so that they can be bowl eligible. How on earth are schools like Purdue and Kentucky ever going to get bowl eligible if they can't snack on the likes of a Central Michigan or North Texas? Is anyone going to watch a bunch of below .500 BCS programs? Does that really make for better TV games? If they do continue to play the MAC schools of the world, how compelling is it going to be to watch true college amateurs playing BCS schools that will most likely be paying their athletes.

My final thought to E. Gordan Gee. I find it ironic that Mr. Gordan would make fun of the academic reputations of the entire SEC and Louisville. I mean it wasn't that long ago that THE Ohio State University had an open enrollment policy. When I was graduating from high school OSU was everyone's "backup school." As a matter of fact, one of my high school buddies who scored a 13 on the ACT not only got into OSU but is now a proud alum.

	Flyer Faithful FLYER FAITHFUL Best college basketball fans in the country. Knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and loyal. Help to create one of the toughest home courts in the nation at UD Arena. Over 12,000 fans a game put the Flyers in the Top-30 nationally in attendance. Fan spirit and support growing to other UD sports and athletic programs as well.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Gem City I am little surprised that we haven't been discussing E. Gordon Gee's comments all weekend.

There is a current thread in Off Topic Gibberish, where this one ought to be also.