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  #701  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:30 PM
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And the beat goes on

Story in the NY Post about WVa going to Big 12

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/wvu_set_to_leave_big_east_for_big_aS3e4cF01Oc4fAyQ 6qlw4O[/ur

I have felt for quite some time that the BE basketball teams would eventually separate themselves from their football playing brethren, but who could have foreseen the mess that the BE is presently in? Should WVA leave, and it looks like they will, that means UConn, Rutgers L'Ville and UC will be going somewhere else also. That leaves basically the basketball schools. High and mighty Nova and Georgetown can't be happy. South Florida is SOL....where do they go?

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  #702  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:32 PM
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If ND took its olympic sports to the B12, I wonder if the best setup for that conference would then become 14 in football, 15 in everything else. 7x7 split in footbal, 3x15 split in basketball with Louisville, WVU, ND, UC & ? in the "East division" for hoops.
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  #703  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
Story in the NY Post about WVa going to Big 12

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/wvu_set_to_leave_big_east_for_big_aS3e4cF01Oc4fAyQ 6qlw4O[/ur

I have felt for quite some time that the BE basketball teams would eventually separate themselves from their football playing brethren, but who could have foreseen the mess that the BE is presently in? Should WVA leave, and it looks like they will, that means UConn, Rutgers L'Ville and UC will be going somewhere else also. That leaves basically the basketball schools. High and mighty Nova and Georgetown can't be happy. South Florida is SOL....where do they go?

Francesca and NY Sports radio reporting it, sounds like done deal. West Virgina to Big 12.

I never thought something like this would not happen. Im just waiting to see what louisville and perhaps one more team to bolt
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  #704  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:56 PM
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Louisville HAS to have a home for football better than the remnants of the Big East. I dont think academies, ECU, Memphis, SMU, Houston will cut it for them. Doesnt matter how good Houston is, WVU has more national branding. Its all about perception, branding, and TV. WVU is the biggest remaining fish in the BE, following by Louisville football. Then I think its down to UC and UConn and with UConn having the edge because of basketball and a newer larger facility to Nippert. I know UC has had great recent success. But UConns overall athletic department is 5x better than UCs.

UC wants to ride The Villes coattails too. Its much like UD and XU.
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  #705  
Old 10-25-2011, 05:00 PM
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BE football is done! The league reverts back to what was originally....a basketball league, whether Nova and Georgetown like it or not. The question becomes who will be invited to join the basketball teams?
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  #706  
Old 10-25-2011, 05:29 PM
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I found it interesting that allegedly, Boise, Houston, SMU, UCF & Navy administrators meet w/the Big East commish in NYC sunday, but Air Force skiped the talks. I believe I read somewhere where Air Force was mainly interested as a place to get into a conference w/ both Navy & Army. Once Army was off the list, their interest as a Big East football only member lessened. Kind of makes sense, they know they're not a BCS type team, don't try to compete on the same level as Texas, Florida, OSU, etc... so therefor joining the Big East wasn't about being BCS eligible, but more about securing a conference with both Navy & Army going forward.
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  #707  
Old 10-25-2011, 05:48 PM
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Big 12 and ND

I can think of only one reason why ND would consider affiliation with the Big 12 compared to the Big Ten or ACC. That is, the Big 12 will allow ND in for all sports except FB. But why would the Big 12 do that? Essentially the same deal ND had with the Big East. Why? Is the ND brand name that valuable that mere association with ND on ND's terms is worth it?

That's what the Big East thought. Would ND agree to as many as six Big 12 games? To do so would mean that ND plays it unofficial conference games each year, USC, MSU, et al, with the other six against Big 12 opponents. Perhaps the best ND can hope for...it loses scheduling flexibility; but remains quasi-independent in football.

The Big 12's "hope" that ND will eventually become a full member in FB is a dream, in my opinion. If ND is going to become a full conference member in FB it seems that association with the schools of either the Big Ten or ACC would have far more appeal to ND than rubbing elbows with the likes of Oklahoma State, Iowa State, etc.

ND always looks out for ND with no regard for anyone else. If ND connects with the Big 12 it's because the Big 12 offers something ND needs, e.g., a home for sports other than FB.....with the lure for the Big 12 of a guarantee of a fixed number of FB games each year with ND while ND remains independent in FB.

Sounds reasonable, actually. The Big 12 is shaky compared to the three stable power conferences. Connecting with ND adds cachet and improves stability,....maybe even persuading UM to stay.

Wow!

An ND-Big 12 affiliation could also benefit UConn and Rutgers, assuming that the ACC was holding a slot for ND. If ND connects with the Big 12 that makes two spaces available in the ACC....but with no ungency to fill them, however.

Schools usually are unsucessful "applying" for conference membership. But some schools/states have more influence and clout than others. I wonder how much "pull" if any, Connecticut and New Jersey have with the schools and governors of ACC states.
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  #708  
Old 10-25-2011, 06:10 PM
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"New" Big East BB conference....

Should the BE come completely unglued....at least a 50-50 chance,...the often talked about new BB conference may happen....possibly attracting Xavier and Dayton. But, the thing that would make such a conference absolutely irresitable to UD would be the presence of Notre Dame.

Absent ND I'm less sure. Would Georgetown and Villanova be enough of an upgrade to attract Dayton? Probably would. UD struggles in the A10 with only a single jewel to overcome, Xavier. In a new Big East there would be VU, GU, Marquette and Xavier ahead of Dayton.....on a pretty conistent basis. That could be a 4-5 bid league, easily.

Dayton would go for it if given the opportunity, I think.
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  #709  
Old 10-25-2011, 06:35 PM
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Notre Who?

I would not want to be associated with Notre Dame. Notre Dame, the so-called leader of the Catholic universities, disassociated itself from college football when it selfishly negotiated an exclusive contract with NBC to enrich it's programs at the expense of all other programs with whom they compete. Notre Dame, IMHO, is the founder of the Mad Dash for the Dollars now afflicting college sports. Is this consistent with their mission as a Catholic instituton? If it is I suggest they should abandon the Faith. If you look up the word "selfish" is the dictionary, you will see a picture of the golden dome. Notre Dame has given Catholicism and Christianity a bad name because of their decision to abandon the principles of Christianity. Their cheer is "Go Irish" but it should be "Me First". While Notre Dame may believe they are better than the rest of us their results suggest otherwise. I have not attended mass at the chapel on campus at Notre Dame. I do wonder if they charge a fee for receiving Holy Communion.
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  #710  
Old 10-25-2011, 07:23 PM
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I think UD would be better off with Notre Dame basketball in the Big 12. If the Big East basketball schools split from the football schools, UD might have less of a chance to be invited to the new league if Notre Dame were still in the Big East. Let's say the "new" Big East wanted to get to 12, and had Notre Dame, Marquette, and DePaul in the West. That would leave room for only three "western" schools to come from a list of schools like Xavier, Dayton, St Louis, Creighton, and Butler. With Notre Dame basketball in the Big 12, there would be room for four "western" schools, giving UD a much better chance to be invited. No matter how many schools the "new" Big East decided to invite, there would be more room for UD if Notre Dame was gone. And UD would jump at the chance to join such a league, whether Notre Dame was in it or not.
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  #711  
Old 10-25-2011, 07:30 PM
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Alberto, please,...

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
I would not want to be associated with Notre Dame. Notre Dame, the so-called leader of the Catholic universities, disassociated itself from college football when it selfishly negotiated an exclusive contract with NBC to enrich it's programs at the expense of all other programs with whom they compete. Notre Dame, IMHO, is the founder of the Mad Dash for the Dollars now afflicting college sports. Is this consistent with their mission as a Catholic instituton? If it is I suggest they should abandon the Faith. If you look up the word "selfish" is the dictionary, you will see a picture of the golden dome. Notre Dame has given Catholicism and Christianity a bad name because of their decision to abandon the principles of Christianity. Their cheer is "Go Irish" but it should be "Me First". While Notre Dame may believe they are better than the rest of us their results suggest otherwise. I have not attended mass at the chapel on campus at Notre Dame. I do wonder if they charge a fee for receiving Holy Communion.
....stop beating around the bush. Tell us how you really feel about ND.
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  #712  
Old 10-25-2011, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Should the BE come completely unglued....at least a 50-50 chance,...the often talked about new BB conference may happen....possibly attracting Xavier and Dayton. But, the thing that would make such a conference absolutely irresitable to UD would be the presence of Notre Dame.

Absent ND I'm less sure. Would Georgetown and Villanova be enough of an upgrade to attract Dayton? Probably would. UD struggles in the A10 with only a single jewel to overcome, Xavier. In a new Big East there would be VU, GU, Marquette and Xavier ahead of Dayton.....on a pretty conistent basis. That could be a 4-5 bid league, easily.

Dayton would go for it if given the opportunity, I think.
We can always trample a stranded UConn too!
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  #713  
Old 10-25-2011, 07:42 PM
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I agree,....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I think UD would be better off with Notre Dame basketball in the Big 12. If the Big East basketball schools split from the football schools, UD might have less of a chance to be invited to the new league if Notre Dame were still in the Big East. Let's say the "new" Big East wanted to get to 12, and had Notre Dame, Marquette, and DePaul in the West. That would leave room for only three "western" schools to come from a list of schools like Xavier, Dayton, St Louis, Creighton, and Butler. With Notre Dame basketball in the Big 12, there would be room for four "western" schools, giving UD a much better chance to be invited. No matter how many schools the "new" Big East decided to invite, there would be more room for UD if Notre Dame was gone. And UD would jump at the chance to join such a league, whether Notre Dame was in it or not.

....I think UD would jump at the chance to become part of a "new" Big East BB conference. However, I don't think the current seven BE Catholics would want to grow to a 12 team conference. Five of the current seven are within spitting distance of the Atlantic ocean...two are far away in the mid-West. Assuming the seven stick together (not a certainty), I think they will want to add three mid-west schools for a ten school league.....five in the east and five in the mid-west. A ten team league can play everyone twice, or if fewer conference games are desired, play all but one or two teams twice in a season.

But the seven BE BB schools are a bit more savy re TV deals, in my opinion. They might find a school like SLU more attractive than UD and X is the same market. But, Majerous (sp?) beefs a lot about the A10 geography as is. The new BE would be as bad. But TV dollars might carry the day.

The only certainty.....UD will move heaven and earth to stay with Xavier. Do we have friends at Marquette, DePaul, other BE schools that will go to bat for us? I hope Ted and Tim have been working that issue over the years.

A new BE comprised of the schools mentioned would be ranked higher than the A10...possibly higher than one or two of the power conferences...and would surely be a multi-bid league.

Could happen.
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  #714  
Old 10-25-2011, 08:00 PM
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MWC and C-USA going after the Big East.....

....Tomorrow the commissioners of the MW and USA will meet in NYC with the BE commissioner,....with a proposal to form the talked-about 28-32 team conference.

The BE, as weak as it is, has something these two conferences do not have and want bady....BCS AQ status through the 2013 season. While it's highly probable that the BE will not be able to retain its AQ staus, even if it adds teams.....combined with the MW and USA the feeling is that the resulting mega-conference will be hefty enough to retain the BE's AQ status.

Reports are that the MW and C-USA will hit the BE with a full court press Wednesday in an effort to sell the deal.

Four divisions would result, with a playoff game(s) to determine who gets to play in the BCS bowl. This could result in a much better TV deal than any of the three conferences now have. The mega-conference would be for FB only, I think.
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  #715  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
Story in the NY Post about WVa going to Big 12

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/wvu_set_to_leave_big_east_for_big_aS3e4cF01Oc4fAyQ 6qlw4O[/ur

I have felt for quite some time that the BE basketball teams would eventually separate themselves from their football playing brethren, but who could have foreseen the mess that the BE is presently in? Should WVA leave, and it looks like they will, that means UConn, Rutgers L'Ville and UC will be going somewhere else also. That leaves basically the basketball schools. High and mighty Nova and Georgetown can't be happy. South Florida is SOL....where do they go?
Where do you think UConn, UL, Rutgers, and UC will be going? The way this is playing out, I think 2-3 of those schools may end up in the same SOL boat as USF.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:25 PM
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Be + mw + usa

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Where do you think UConn, UL, Rutgers, and UC will be going? The way this is playing out, I think 2-3 of those schools may end up in the same SOL boat as USF.
....see the previous post, Cleveland. Seems like a possibility.
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  #717  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....Tomorrow the commissioners of the MW and USA will meet in NYC with the BE commissioner,....with a proposal to form the talked-about 28-32 team conference.

The BE, as weak as it is, has something these two conferences do not have and want bady....BCS AQ status through the 2013 season. While it's highly probable that the BE will not be able to retain its AQ staus, even if it adds teams.....combined with the MW and USA the feeling is that the resulting mega-conference will be hefty enough to retain the BE's AQ status.

Reports are that the MW and C-USA will hit the BE with a full court press Wednesday in an effort to sell the deal.

Four divisions would result, with a playoff game(s) to determine who gets to play in the BCS bowl. This could result in a much better TV deal than any of the three conferences now have. The mega-conference would be for FB only, I think.
With the roster of schools that look like they'll end up in such a megaconference, it probably makes sense that the ~30 of them would have to split up one BCS autobid in such a manner. IMO that's better than the Big East and Mountain West each having their own bid.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....see the previous post, Cleveland. Seems like a possibility.
You mean the proposed megaconference? Well, technically that means that they're not "going" anywhere. Although somewhere down the line I would not be the least bit shocked if Louisville ends up getting a Big XII invite (potentially to come in paired up with BYU as conference members 11 and 12).
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:45 PM
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McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
by BFeldmanCBS
Big East spokesman John Paquette tells @CBSSports John Marinatto will not meet w/C-USA & MWC commishes about merger as reported elsewhere
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
McMurphyCBS Brett McMurphy
by BFeldmanCBS
Big East spokesman John Paquette tells @CBSSports John Marinatto will not meet w/C-USA & MWC commishes about merger as reported elsewhere
Even if he does and even if the 3 "merged", it'd still be a joke "conference" and the BCS 5 would not let that become an AQ "conference".
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:52 PM
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Breaking...

Effective 2018 the WAC, MWest, BEast, CUSA, Sun Belt, MAC, Ivy, Colonial, Horizon, CFL, Pioneer, and GWOC have announced a merger. They will hold a 128-team playoff to determine who gets the right to lose 84-3 to LSU in the first round of the 16-team BCS playoffs every year.

The First Four rounds of the playoff will be held at Dayton's Welcome Stadium.
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  #722  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:17 AM
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
Where do you think UConn, UL, Rutgers, and UC will be going? The way this is playing out, I think 2-3 of those schools may end up in the same SOL boat as USF.
To answer your question......it is my humble opinion that after the smoke clears with the Notre Dame situation UConn and Rutgers will end up in the ACC with UC and L'Ville going to the Big 12.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:41 AM
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Maybe, Bill....

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
To answer your question......it is my humble opinion that after the smoke clears with the Notre Dame situation UConn and Rutgers will end up in the ACC with UC and L'Ville going to the Big 12.
....surely that would be great for the Big East remnants. But, once/if the ND situation clarifies there will be little urgency for either the ACC or Big 12 to do anything soon. The sentiment in CT is that the ACC will not expand again for a long time.

A surprise like the ACC deciding to go after an ACC school like FSU could upset the apple cart, of course. And a risk of waiting if the ACC and Big 12 plan eventually to go to 16 or 12 is that the BE remnants won't be available. Re that point, we don't know how the BE, MW, etc., will respond to all the changes or what form the BCS will take in the future. But, it's at least possible that the BE remnants will connect with other schools as part of a national conference that turns out to be not-all-that-bad.

"Is this guy, nuts"? some Priders are thinking. Maybe, but among the 28-32 teams mentioned for the mega-conference are a few ranked teams. And, as Cincy and UL did when they joined the BE, the schools of the mega will pour money into upgrading their programs and facilities.

Large schools like Central Florida and Houston, to name just two, have significant potential, if not the legacy and/or "name" associated with big time FB schools. Boise State has demonstrated what's possible even for no-name schools.

More important for us is what happens to the BE BB schools, especially if ND abandons them for the Big 12. I think the BE Catholics wanted to stick with ND and will do whatever ND does. But, if ND links with the Big 12 the Catholics of the BE will be forced to think for themselves.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:02 PM
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This whole thing is looking uglier and uglier for the basketball only Big East schools. I can't be real appetizing to be facing the prospect of being a 2nd rate football alliance.

I think this whole thing is wearing on their elitism, but it's going to take some time for them to start thinking of a basketball only league situation seriously. It's their last fallback position, but their other options will continue to get bleaker and bleaker, IMO.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:16 PM
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Sit and wait as a strategy?

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
This whole thing is looking uglier and uglier for the basketball only Big East schools. I can't be real appetizing to be facing the prospect of being a 2nd rate football alliance.

I think this whole thing is wearing on their elitism, but it's going to take some time for them to start thinking of a basketball only league situation seriously. It's their last fallback position, but their other options will continue to get bleaker and bleaker, IMO.

That might be what the BE BB schools are doing. Surely, they must have Option A, B, C etc. in mind.

I just read an article re the ACC strategy which was described as "dishonorable, but effective". The stategy is to be proactive...be the hunter rather than the hunted. It certainly has worked for the ACC....the BE sat on its hands and now it has no hands left.

I hope UD is being "proactive" in its communications with influential BE BB schools, e.g., VU and GU. It's important for people to know and understand what your position is and what youi want to have happen....and what you'll do to make it happen. I know TK would do that; I'm less sure about Tim.

The Big East's approach of relying on the tooth fairy to work things out just doesn't work.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:18 PM
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Sit and wait as a strategy?

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
This whole thing is looking uglier and uglier for the basketball only Big East schools. I can't be real appetizing to be facing the prospect of being a 2nd rate football alliance.

I think this whole thing is wearing on their elitism, but it's going to take some time for them to start thinking of a basketball only league situation seriously. It's their last fallback position, but their other options will continue to get bleaker and bleaker, IMO.

That might be what theBE BB schools are doing. Surely, they must have Option A, B, C etc. in mind.

I just read an article re the ACC strategy which was described as "dishonorable, but effective". The stategy is to be proactive...be the hunter rather than the hunted. It certainly has worked for the ACC....the BE sat on its hands and now it has no hands left.

I hope UD is being "proactive" in its communications with influential BE BB schools, e.g., Vu and GU. It's important for people to know and understand what your position is and what youi want to have happen....and what you'll do to make it happen. I know TK would do that; I'm less sure about Tim.

The Big East's approach of relying on the tooth fairy to work things out just doesn't work.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post

I hope UD is being "proactive" in its communications with influential BE BB schools, e.g., Vu and GU. It's important for people to know and understand what your position is and what youi want to have happen....and what you'll do to make it happen. I know TK would do that; I'm less sure about Tim.

The Big East's approach of relying on the tooth fairy to work things out just doesn't work.
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I am becoming less and less enchanted with these BE hoops schools. When you see what little principles they have, and how they have prostituted themselves to the almighty dollar, they are not an appealing bunch. Furthermore, just read their message boards. Jumping in bed with the unwashed heathens from any other conference is anathema to them. Don't know if the administrations of these schools have the same mindset, but the unwelcome odor you smell from the BE is just as strong from the hoops side as it is from the football side. Throw in the attitude of the snobby Irish and one has to question if this group of schools shares our values.
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  #729  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
This whole thing is looking uglier and uglier for the basketball only Big East schools. I can't be real appetizing to be facing the prospect of being a 2nd rate football alliance.

I think this whole thing is wearing on their elitism, but it's going to take some time for them to start thinking of a basketball only league situation seriously. It's their last fallback position, but their other options will continue to get bleaker and bleaker, IMO.
Well it gets even uglier today w/ rumor spreading that WVU B12 invite gets a big ol' Lee Corso "Not so fast my friend". WVU has allegedly cancelled a press conference for this afternoon where their B12 move would be announced officially. Rumor for the setback settles on Louisville making a push on the B12 to consider them a bit more carefully and perhaps shining some light on some skeleton's in WVU's closet.

I'm not even sure Hollywood could have come up with this script 24 months ago.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:52 PM
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Even if the Big East thinned out to just the basketball schools, most of their fan bases dont want Dayton. They want Xavier or they want Butler. Dayton is a complete afterthought. If theres no alternative they will take us, but beyond that theyd rather take as few schools as possible. Preferably one or two. And Dayton is on the outside looking in.

I do not believe UD's position is nearly as strong as some think. But, I also think the BE basketball schools will do just about anything to avoid leaving big money football too. The 32 team MegaConference stands a far greater chance of happening. The sun burning out stands a better chance of happening.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I am becoming less and less enchanted with these BE hoops schools. When you see what little principles they have, and how they have prostituted themselves to the almighty dollar, they are not an appealing bunch. Furthermore, just read their message boards. Jumping in bed with the unwashed heathens from any other conference is anathema to them. Don't know if the administrations of these schools have the same mindset, but the unwelcome odor you smell from the BE is just as strong from the hoops side as it is from the football side. Throw in the attitude of the snobby Irish and one has to question if this group of schools shares our values.
I see your reasoning, but I think for many of them, a combination with some of the football schools is the only way they can present themselves as "big time" in today's media, or at least that is their fear. It almost seems like it comes strongest from both VU & GU in the non-football side. I see their viewpoint; they need someone with the vision, balls and foresight to convince the VU that big time football is nothing but a pipedream while convincing the others that going back to their roots and establishing themselves firmly as the top non-football conference has marketability to it. The TV execs are going to view it as such anyways, and pay for it accordingly. Heck Big East football had 2 games on at the same time friday evening. OK, so that's better than the Tuesday night MAC slot, but its still beyond 2nd rate and included two of their more marketable programs (WVU @ Syracuse and Rutgers at 'Ville). If that's not a clear signal that Big East football takes a big back seat to ESPN's coverage of the B10, ACC & SEC on football saturday's, I'm not sure what is. Its not going to get any better for the football side.

Despite any ill will generated by this, at the end of the day joining forces w/ the non football schools is still the best hope for UD at the end of the day. My description of the benefits this setup for UD over the A-10 was aptly described as a Kardashin surgery by an X fan on the A-10 board, about the same at the top, a firmer middle, and a better back end.

'Nova > Saint Joe/Lasalle, GU > GW, Providence > Rhody, SJU > Fordham. Throw in marquette, DePaul & Seton Hall and well its a better path for UD, if UD is included in such a conference.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
...I have not attended mass at the chapel on campus at Notre Dame. I do wonder if they charge a fee for receiving Holy Communion.
They don't charge for communion but the mass IS on national TV (not joking)
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:44 PM
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It's the American way

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Throw in the attitude of the snobby Irish and one has to question if this group of schools shares our values.
What exactly are our values??

Tuition has increased 400% since the 80's, some of us have to pay a seat license to watch UD basketball, our basketball coach negotiates a six-figure buy-out and multi million dollar contract, UD is buying up any and all properties in the region for well under their County assessed value, requesting and receiving tax abatements and has somehow convinced the State of Ohio to fork over millions of tax payer dollars to clean up the solvent laced groundwater and soils under and within the properties to the bare minimum regulatory standards.

UD isn't afraid to step on someone else's toes, push someone else aside or undercut the competition when possible. So it seems to me our values are right in line with the other money and power grabbers in the NCAA who simply want what's best for themselves.

And I'm all for it!
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:54 PM
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True, but the fans don't make the decisions....

Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Even if the Big East thinned out to just the basketball schools, most of their fan bases dont want Dayton. They want Xavier or they want Butler. Dayton is a complete afterthought. If theres no alternative they will take us, but beyond that theyd rather take as few schools as possible. Preferably one or two. And Dayton is on the outside looking in.

I do not believe UD's position is nearly as strong as some think. But, I also think the BE basketball schools will do just about anything to avoid leaving big money football too. The 32 team MegaConference stands a far greater chance of happening. The sun burning out stands a better chance of happening.
....any more than UDPride makes UD's decisions.

For the same reason every conference in the world wants ND to join, the Holy Grail for UD would be to join the BE BB schools if ND stuck with them. UD would do anything reasonable to make that happen.

The next best option is to join with a group of BE BB schools that included Georgetown and Villanova....elite academics. That matters a great deal to UD. With old time rivals MU and DU in the mix this option is even better.

The BE BB schools would want Xavier for sure.....X would argue the case for including UD for about five minutes. Most likely we have no other friends in the group. Selling points for UD include an outstanding athletics program, outstanding facilities, good academics. The downside, sad to say, is a mediocre men's BB program. If it's all about men's BB our chances of connecting with the BE BB schools are no better than 50-50.

But, the BE BB schools are in a world of hurt...not as bad as the FB remnants; but hurt nonetheless. When contemplating a FB upgrade (still on the table); VU made crystal clear that its peers are not the BE BB schools, but UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, WVA....that's why it wanted to upgrade FB. Well, upgrade or not, VU will no longer be associated with three of those four BB powers. Of the BE FB remnants, only UL, UC and UConn meet the VU BB-peer test....with no guarantee they will remain, no guarantee at all.

If it's all about money for GU and VU, then sticking with FBS FB schools no matter how screwy the conference is what they's do. While the power conference teams get ~$20 million each, even poor FBS FB conferences rake in a lot more money than the BE BB schools are likely to get in a BB-only conference with the likes of UD.

It's a shame to see so many schools hurting....really hurting. We may not be in the big time. But the A10 is one of the best BB conferences, a notch below the power conferences. And there is no reason on earth why the A10 cannot be even better. UD could do a lot worse.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:14 PM
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Real clout!

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Well it gets even uglier today w/ rumor spreading that WVU B12 invite gets a big ol' Lee Corso "Not so fast my friend". WVU has allegedly cancelled a press conference for this afternoon where their B12 move would be announced officially. Rumor for the setback settles on Louisville making a push on the B12 to consider them a bit more carefully and perhaps shining some light on some skeleton's in WVU's closet.

I'm not even sure Hollywood could have come up with this script 24 months ago.

There are reports that U.S. Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnel, of Kentucky, has intervened on behalf of UL with his friend, a former senator and now president of the U. of Oklahoma.

Wow. Is this getting nasty, dirty, mean, etc.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:49 PM
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[QUOTE=UACFlyer;238849]

It's a shame to see so many schools hurting....really hurting. We may not be in the big time. But the A10 is one of the best BB conferences, a notch below the power conferences. And there is no reason on earth why the A10 cannot be even better. UD could do a lot worse.[/QUOTES]

Spot-on sir. We are in pretty **** good shape, all things considered. I still think Temple/UMass are vulnerable and would probably jump at a full-time membership invite to anything above the MAC (such as a post-realignment C-USA). I also still think VU's desire for FBS football will come into play eventually, leading them to abandon their basketball-only brethren.

I think that once the dust is truly settled, SOME sort of inner-city/catholic league comprised of the most dominant and marketable non FBS football schools will be established. This could be under the banner of the A10, the Big East, or who knows, perhaps a new conference entirely...
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
There are reports that U.S. Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnel, of Kentucky, has intervened on behalf of UL with his friend, a former senator and now president of the U. of Oklahoma.

Wow. Is this getting nasty, dirty, mean, etc.
And Pitino wanting to add Memphis and Temple to the Big East.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...rs-temple-owls
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
And Pitino wanting to add Memphis and Temple to the Big East.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...rs-temple-owls

Well, you've got to admire the guy for speaking out. But, surely he's heard that his school is trying to leave the Big East for the Big 12.

If UL can bring to bear the big guns of the Senate minority leader...that's impressive.

I wonder if CT legislators and the governor have the clout to lean hard on ESPN in connection with a UC invite to the ACC. From what one hears TV rules the world....and ESPN is mighty dependent on the cooperation and goodwill of CT and its taxpayers.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The BE BB schools would want Xavier for sure.....X would argue the case for including UD for about five minutes. Most likely we have no other friends in the group. Selling points for UD include an outstanding athletics program, outstanding facilities, good academics. The downside, sad to say, is a mediocre men's BB program. If it's all about men's BB our chances of connecting with the BE BB schools are no better than 50-50.
I would say we are a tad above mediocre. And perhaps the Big East snobs should take a look at our record against them the past few years. In the past five years we are 7-3 against the Big East and 13-7 against BCS conference teams overall, and only ONE of those wins came at home - not bad for a mediocre program. I know they don't care about any of that, but those are the facts.

Edit: And I'm not quite sure how four post-seasons in a row, three consecutive years of being ranked, an NCAA win, an NIT Championship, and a 13-7 record against BCS conference schools equals "mediocre."

Last edited by longtimefan; 10-26-2011 at 04:23 PM..
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  #740  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
It's a shame to see so many schools hurting....really hurting. We may not be in the big time. But the A10 is one of the best BB conferences, a notch below the power conferences. And there is no reason on earth why the A10 cannot be even better. UD could do a lot worse.
I just don't fear any of the ramifications for Dayton, honestly. I fell like it is hard to do worse than our position right now, given our resources. We are just good enough to be left out of the NCAA by a few positions most years. We draw some of the best crowds and support in our peer group, but we get less payback. If we get left behind in the A10, we are probably one of, if not the dominant program in that league. If we move up to a better conference, our recruiting and status will rise. We always have our home court advantage which will make us competitive in a tougher league from the start.

I feel like this whole situation is a win for Dayton.
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  #741  
Old 10-26-2011, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I just don't fear any of the ramifications for Dayton, honestly. I fell like it is hard to do worse than our position right now, given our resources. We are just good enough to be left out of the NCAA by a few positions most years. We draw some of the best crowds and support in our peer group, but we get less payback. If we get left behind in the A10, we are probably one of, if not the dominant program in that league. If we move up to a better conference, our recruiting and status will rise. We always have our home court advantage which will make us competitive in a tougher league from the start.

I feel like this whole situation is a win for Dayton.
Agree. If Xavier and Temple leave and we are left behind I could see the A-10 adding teams like George Mason, VCU, or Old Dominion. I think UD would do fine in such a conference. I don't think we would be any worse off than we are now. That would be a better conference than Butler and Gonzaga are in.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:52 PM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I would say we are a tad above mediocre. And perhaps the Big East snobs should take a look at our record against them the past few years. In the past five years we are 7-3 against the Big East and 13-7 against BCS conference teams overall, and only ONE of those wins came at home - not bad for a mediocre program. I know they don't care about any of that, but those are the facts.

Edit: And I'm not quite sure how four post-seasons in a row, three consecutive years of being ranked, an NCAA win, an NIT Championship, and a 13-7 record against BCS conference schools equals "mediocre."

I was looking at UD the way others look at us...not the way we look at ourselves. It's my opion that performance in conference is the primary measure people consider. We are in the A10 conference....a good conference but by no means a top-tier conference,....and we are an average program within that conference. If "mediocre" is a word you would not choose, I'm OK with that. I'll go with your suggestion....we are a "tad above mediocre".

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I just don't fear any of the ramifications for Dayton, honestly. I fell like it is hard to do worse than our position right now, given our resources. We are just good enough to be left out of the NCAA by a few positions most years. We draw some of the best crowds and support in our peer group, but we get less payback. If we get left behind in the A10, we are probably one of, if not the dominant program in that league. If we move up to a better conference, our recruiting and status will rise. We always have our home court advantage which will make us competitive in a tougher league from the start.

I feel like this whole situation is a win for Dayton.
A few years ago during a conversation with Ted Kissell he impressed upon me the critical importance to Dayton of remaining connected with Xavier...staying in the same conference with Xavier. Xavier, I'm sure X considers us a valued rival; but I am just as sure that X doesn't have the life-and-death attachment to UD that we seem to have with them. Ted's remarks suggest,...indeed, indicate,...that UD feels it needs Xavier.

Ted was confident that X would go to bat for Dayton in conference discussions; but that ultimately and understandably Xavier would act in its own best interests.

For sure, Xavier is the crown jewel of the Atlantic 10. Loss of X would be a blow to the league. The A10 would not like to lose UD either; but loss of the Flyers would be far less painful than loss of X. Losing both X and UD would really hurt the A10....SLU would surely want to switch conferences as well.

Whatever, I think that X would commit to playing UD every year in the fashion of Miami if X left for another conference....but it would be a single game. I hope the two schools stay together. And I happen to think the A10 is a very good conference for UD.....a conference presenting a challenge that we have yet to master consistently.

Back to realignment for a moment: We speak of the BE falling apart, which seems to be happening. But, if the BE plays hardball, as seems to be the case, the conference will remain as is for two and a half more football seasons...through 2013. That's plenty of time for ND and the BE BB schools to figure out what they want to do.
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  #743  
Old 10-26-2011, 05:05 PM
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I think fans tend to look at conference record, and more likely post season success when they factor in how they precieve a program for any realignment. Conference presidents and ADs should dig much deeper than that. Fan support, facilities and money invested in the program are a much better indicator of future performance than the last 5 years of conference/postseason play.

Xavier has everything a conference would want, a track record of success, great facilities, fan commitment and a solid investment in the program that will keep it moving forward.

Butler has recent success in spades, however the facilities are pretty bad. Is the investment there, or in the works to make one certain Butler will remain an NCAA regular 10-20 years down the line? I think its a legit question.

UD hasn't had the success of those 2 in either conference or postseason play, it goes w/o saying, however its not like UD has no success. They have an NCAA win just a few seasons ago, they won the NIT a couple of seasons ago, they've done well in their matchups w/ fellow Big East teams. UD has shown that they're willing to spend top of the A-10 money when they believe they have a coach worth keeping around. They've shown that they're willing to spend the money neccessary to keep the facilities up to date to ensure the school name (and conference logo) show up during the NCAA each season, something the clearly adds value no one else can offer. The conference record/postseason success are more of a coach issue, than a "program" issue. UD hasn't been terrible, its been solid enough to send coaches to two different ACC programs.

Taking my Red & Blue glasses off, I still see a lot that UD offers over other potential rivals for a BBall only Big East. They're not in perfect shape, so they'll need them to add more than 1 most likely, but they're close enough that if/when it happens it will be an easy sell to fans.
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  #744  
Old 10-26-2011, 05:08 PM
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Well, I guess if UofL and WVa go to the Big XII and UConn and Rutgers move to the ACC, there really won't be anyone for the BE to play hard ball with as the whole thing implodes. I think it's safe to say that just about ALL the BE FB schools would be gone yesterday if they had an invitation to join any other BCS Conference and that doesn't bode well for longevity.

I do believe we should be a pretty attractive addition to any non-BCS conference given our facilities, fan support and the success of our sports teams overall. While X may go to bat for us initially with a BE BB invite, I worry about the Jesuit connection of G'Town, Marquette and X pushing for STL (which also has a brand new arena in a pretty good sized market.) It's still a very fluid situation, needless to say, and we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out. It does seem to get curiouser and curiouser though, don't it?

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Old 10-26-2011, 05:09 PM
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Of course, none if it may matter. The Big East could still go to a BBall only conference, but keep UConn, Rutgers, USF, UC and perhaps Louisville and/or WVU in everything but football. Not including ND, that's 12 teams that probably wouldn't add anyone and remain at 12.

or, they could do the much talked about Boise St, Air Force, Houston, etc... route and pray they keep their BCS auto bid.

At any case, it still looks completely unstable, so in the meantime, its in UD's best interest to ensure the postseason performance begins to match or even exceed the investment made w/n the program.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
Well, I guess if UofL and WVa go to the Big XII and UConn and Rutgers move to the ACC, there really won't be anyone for the BE to play hard ball with as the whole thing implodes. While X may go to bat for us initially with a BE BB invite, I worry about the Jesuit connection of G'Town, Marquette and X pushing for STL (which also has a brand new arena in a pretty good sized market.) It's still a very fluid situation, needless to say, and we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out. It does seem to get curiouser and curiouser though, don't it?
In my opinion, if the football side completely goes away, I still think they'll look to go to 12 by adding 3-4 teams in the western part of the eastern half of the country to go with Marquette, DePaul and potentially ND.
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  #747  
Old 10-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Medford Medford is offline
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In Bobber style:

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews....-with-lou.html

Posted w/o comment
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  #748  
Old 10-26-2011, 06:58 PM
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Now U.S. Senate colleagues are battling?

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
In Bobber style:

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews....-with-lou.html

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Good grief!

In a round about way this squabble could benefit Cincy. A compromise resulting from senators squabbling would be to add UL and WVA...but that makes an 11 school conference if UM leaves. If Cincy was seriously considered by the Big 12, why not just stop the fighting and add all three?

If UM decides to stay...perhaps lured by the prospect of ND as an associate member, then adding UL and WVU would bring the Big 12 to 12. But, UM seems intent on leaving....if so, Cincinnatti could be the beneficiary. The Big East would love that!

To repeat...the Big East has the power to keep all these schools until 2013....and the BE BB schools have the votes to do it, even as the number of FB schools diminishes.
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  #749  
Old 10-26-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The downside, sad to say, is a mediocre men's BB program. If it's all about men's BB our chances of connecting with the BE BB schools are no better than 50-50.
Not saying you're wrong. But i find it at least a little bit ironic to think that the BE BB schools would keep us out of their conference on the basis of having a mediocre hoops program, when our mediocre hoops program has gone something like 11-5 against them in the past decade or so.

While it cannot be argued that we have not had the successes of Nova or Xavier etc. I would argue that if Dayton ever got into a conference as good as a revamped catholic/private hoops conference made up of the remnants of the big east, i think we could eventually rise to the occasion. (I mean, how many amazing recruits have we lost out on at the last minute to a BCS school since BG arrived? Gomes, Randal, Pullen, even our last two recruits who departed to ISU and Eron Harris to WVA. We've lost out on a lot of talent based on our conference affiliation alone.) We have the fanbase. We have the facilities. I think recruits would be much more willing to go to UD if it were in a conference like that. I think we'd be middle of the pack or lower end of the pack for a while. But in time, i think we'd do well because we have the fanbase that wants it virtually more than anybody else. We've just never recovered fully from JOB, missing out on C-USA, and then having a little success in a not-terrible, but not-great A10.

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  #750  
Old 10-26-2011, 07:50 PM
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Don't forget U. D. has other sports that are attractive...volleyball and womens soccer. Our Womens basketball team has improved every year.
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  #751  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:03 PM
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It's not like Providence, Seton Hall, St Johns, DePaul have been anything better than mediocre over the last 5 years either. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova certainly have done better.

But overall, the private Catholics are best described as a group as the mid to bottom of the pack in the BE. Of course they wouldn't see it that way.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:08 PM
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Three of the non football schools have made Final Fours in the last 10 years, Marquette, Villanova, and Georgetown. Not bad. Might be middle to bottom in the Big East, but a big upgrade over the A10.

Still, I dont think these schools want much to do with Dayton. Even Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. They want as little change as possible -- plus or minus into the league.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:43 PM
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Chris, i agree with you. I think it's quite a hit to their pride to even be considering the likes of us in their esteemed circles. I think they'd take xavier in a heartbeat. If xavier really insists that we are a package deal with them, we're sitting pretty. But if it comes down to it, i wouldn't blame XU if they took a spot without us when it gets down to brass tacks.

I don't think the big east folks like the idea of us, butler, creighton or slu. It would really be slumming it for them. That said, this is my ideal conference of private schools (not necessarily all catholic). You'd play each team in your division twice, each team in the opposite division once for a total of 16 league games:

East:
sju
gtown
nova
seton hall
providence
richmond

West:
xavier
dayton
marquette
depaul
butler
St. louis

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Old 10-26-2011, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Three of the non football schools have made Final Fours in the last 10 years, Marquette, Villanova, and Georgetown.
And, of course, we beat Marquette the year they went to the Final Four.
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  #755  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post

East:
sju
gtown
nova
seton hall
providence
richmond

West:
xavier
dayton
marquette
depaul
butler
St. louis
I like this setup, though personally I would take Creighton over SLU. I like Richmond in the East though, never really thought about that (as an option over Duquesne/St. Joe's).

I simply can't fathom how DePaul, Providence, or Seton Hall could look down on some of the potential additions were talking about. I would take UD, X, Butler, Wichita State, St. Joe's and Creighton over those three schools for a conference any day of the week!

Those three Big East bottom-dwellers are more on the level of the Bradleys, Duquesnes, and SLUs of the world.

IMO, if the Big East really does crumble all the way to the ground, a totally new conference embodying the absolute top non-football schools (regardless of what number that might reach) would be the best bet for not only Dayton and Xavier, but college basketball as a whole.

I would not be surprised at all if Villanova and Notre Dame were not involved in such a new conference.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:26 AM
Bat'71 Bat'71 is offline
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As per Medford's link (http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews....-with-lou.html), it can't make the BE feel very secure when even the US Senators from the states where two of it's current members reside are all pushing for their state Universities be accepted into the Big XII. You combine this with the statement from the AD of the Air Force Academy that he didn't think they could compete in the Big XII, but would be more than happy in the BE and it's very reveling...I don't think this statement could be construed as even a backhanded complement. It's pretty sad and speaks volumes about the perceived quality (or lack thereof) of BE football.

There was an article the other day (I can't locate it at the moment unfortunately) that pointed out how Boston College's programs (both FB and BB) have fallen on hard times recently. It seems that recruiting has become more difficult for BC since joining the ACC due to a lack of area rivals and the difficulty this poses for families to watch their kids play in the conference. Given that, you'd almost think that BC would want to have UConn and Rutgers in the ACC for no other reason than to boost regional interest in their games and make BC more attractive to local talent. BC's experience may serve as a cautionary tale for those schools looking to join a conference that doesn't make geographic sense, unless there are other schools in their specific areas where natural rivalries can form; without that aspect, recruiting could suffer and programs can become less competitive over time.

Last edited by Bat'71; 10-27-2011 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Medford Medford is offline
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I think you can bunk the theory that having no local rival hurts them in recruiting. For starters, that part of the country isn't exactly flush with top notch recruits. The ones in the area don't need to worry about having local rival as more than half their games are at home. They should be recruiting from the rich areas of Maryland, Viriginia & NC where they can sell recruits on the idea of getting back "home" 1x or 2x a season in conference.

BC's recent problems lie in the departure of Jeff jagodzinski. I'm not exactly sure why the AD got on a power trip and fired jeff for interviewing with the jets, but that set them back after a brief but relatively successful run under the former GB offensive coordinator.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:50 PM
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WVU muste be pi$$ed...

According to a report in the Kansas City Star the Big 12-WVU deal was complete, with Big 12 officials to be in Morgantown yesterday or the day before for a ceremony welcoming WVU to the Big 12.

That's when Senate Minority leader, Mitch McConnel, a Louisville grad, called his old senate colleague, the presdident of Oklahoma. At a meeting that night all Big 12 schools affirmed the WVU decision.....except for OU, which shifted its support to Louisville. That resulted in the current "snag". Apparently the vote has to be unanimous...or perhaps it's that OU has more than equal clout.

Whatever, this looks embarrassing for both the Big 12 and WVU. Even if WVU winds up in the Big 12.....the enthusiasm level will be tempered, it would seem. Not a good way to get started.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:18 PM
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UAC,

I've seen reports that both the senetors from WV and McConnell had talked to the OU president as far back as early October. Some seem to think the source of the leak came from Texas, which favors WVU in order to speed up things and force WVU as the 10th team over Louisville. Who knows where the truth is.

At any rate, this thing keeps getting more bizarre by the week. Just imagine if ND actually decided at the end of the football season that it was going all in for the ACC, B12 or B10? I found it interesting that Boise was out shopping a potential spot for its other sports; tells me the MVC told them all in, or all out. Good for them.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:58 PM
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Unhappy Unreal.

In the on-going domino "game" where integrity is at an all time low, this thing between the B12, WVU and UL has to be the smarmiest.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:15 PM
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May be that the senators have been involved....

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
UAC,

I've seen reports that both the senetors from WV and McConnell had talked to the OU president as far back as early October. Some seem to think the source of the leak came from Texas, which favors WVU in order to speed up things and force WVU as the 10th team over Louisville. Who knows where the truth is.

At any rate, this thing keeps getting more bizarre by the week. Just imagine if ND actually decided at the end of the football season that it was going all in for the ACC, B12 or B10? I found it interesting that Boise was out shopping a potential spot for its other sports; tells me the MVC told them all in, or all out. Good for them.

....for some time. That's what senators do. But, when a school is making arrangements for a ceremony to announce its entry into a conference it would seem as if the school is certain that it has been officially accepted. Then to receive a phone call saying,...."hold off on chilling the champagne".

Holy mackerel! As I said, WVU must be pi$$ed.

One Louisville Courier Journal columnist offered a good solution...invite them both. If the Big 12 thinkis its secure with 10 teams...think again. The PAC 12 still lurks. Get up to 12 and the loss of even 4 in a few years is not a catastrophe. Stop at 10 and lose 4 and you have a Big East scenario.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
In the on-going domino "game" where integrity is at an all time low, this thing between the B12, WVU and UL has to be the smarmiest.
You know, perhaps this is a good thing for UD. having worked thru 8 pages of this thread, plus however many other threads on this topic thru the years both here and on the A-10 boards, its become apparent, that the Big East and the team remaining are willing to throw everything at the kitchen sink to keep some form of a football conference and hopes of a BCS auto bid. So little has made sense in this whole process, what I once thought would be a clean, easy split amongst the football schools, and non football schools has become a very intriguing display of conference vs conference, partner vs partner, high emotions on all sides and involving practically every football conference in D1.

With that said, the uglier things get, and the more uncertain the Big East's football future remains, perhaps it gives Boise, Houston, Air Force more pause than they would have had a few weeks ago. Its obvious no body in the Big East is looking out for the interests of anyone else, is that really the type of environment you want to join? What's the carrot, a potential AQS bid to the BCS that is far from garunteed, and question marks about how long before the ACC, B10, B12, SEC & P12 expand again, 2 years, 5 years, couple of decades?

I mean, I can't even imagine Air Force & Navy consider themselves to have the same agenda as your typical BCS program. They serve a different purpose, they recruit completely different kinds of kids, why entangle yourself into that kind of mess?

If I'm C-USA, I'd still let it be known to Houston, SMU, ECU, UCF or anyone else potentially linked to the Big East, that if they were to leave, don't expect an invite back should the Big East fall apart. If I'm DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, Saint John's, etc.. I really have to question tieing myself to the C-USA schools in all sports going forward, even if UConn, Louisville, UC and/or WVU leave for elsewhere. I'd make **** sure I retained power over the new additions if the football side fell apart to simple break apart any football school and go to a non-football format only.

So many question marks, so much confusion, so many hidden (or not so hidden) agenda's. Must be like watching Days of our Lives, pass the popcorn.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....for some time. That's what senators do. But, when a school is making arrangements for a ceremony to announce its entry into a conference it would seem as if the school is certain that it has been officially accepted. Then to receive a phone call saying,...."hold off on chilling the champagne".

Holy mackerel! As I said, WVU must be pi$$ed.

One Louisville Courier Journal columnist offered a good solution...invite them both. If the Big 12 thinkis its secure with 10 teams...think again. The PAC 12 still lurks. Get up to 12 and the loss of even 4 in a few years is not a catastrophe. Stop at 10 and lose 4 and you have a Big East scenario.
Agreed. I'd love to be in the stands when louisville visits WVU in a few weeks. I'd just be sure to where my best Switzerland outfit for the occasion, that thing could get nasty both on and off the field.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:46 PM
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BCS status is reviewed yearly, despite the contracts. The status can be pulled if the league does not meet certain BCS requirements. Some "father of the BCS" was on radio the other day so he spelled out the details. In other words, just adding football schools to the Big East may not maintain their AQ status.

Forgetting the 2,000 miles of geography and time zone constraints for a moment, any president or AD wanting to spend millions to leave the league they are in for a Big East where most if not all football members are spending millions to leave, needs to have their brains donated to science.
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  #765  
Old 10-27-2011, 04:31 PM
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In the battle for BCS AQ survival the winner appears to be the Big 12.
They outplayed the BE bigtime.
As far as UD goes I won't count on inclusion by the Big East non footballers.
DePaul, St. Louis, and Marquette left UD in the dust in the transition from the Great Midwest to CUSA.
UD also left Xavier in going from the MCC to the Great Midwest.
St. Louis was left behind when anumber of schools left CUSA to join the Big East.
I don't see the advantage of having a 12 member basketball only league.
Given UD less than sparkling history in conference play in the MCC, Great Midwest, and now A10 it is going to be a tough sell.

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Old 10-27-2011, 08:40 PM
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A question or two....

Originally Posted by Furio View Post
In the battle for BCS AQ survival the winner appears to be the Big 12.
They outplayed the BE bigtime.
As far as UD goes I won't count on inclusion by the Big East non footballers.
DePaul, St. Louis, and Marquette left UD in the dust in the transition from the Great Midwest to CUSA.
UD also left Xavier in going from the MCC to the Great Midwest.
St. Louis was left behind when anumber of schools left CUSA to join the Big East.
I don't see the advantage of having a 12 member basketball only league.
Given UD less than sparkling history in conference play in the MCC, Great Midwest, and now A10 it is going to be a tough sell.
Ted Kissell became UD's AD in the summer of 1992. UD joined the Great Midwest in 1993.....so it appears as if the decision was made during his watch. But that doesn't mean it was Ted's call. Perhaps the decision was made prior to Ted's arrival...and Priders will recall that Ted became seriously ill for a time very shortly after he started at UD. Additionally, a conference switch is so important...it hardly seems likely that a new AD who never had the top job before would act so preciptitously.

And, of course, at the time UD had no athletics program.....just a men's BB team in shambles and a solid FB team...nothing else. We were not attractive for any conference.

I really don't understand what happened at the time....how it happened...why it happened....who was the driving force.

And leaving Xavier? Wow! That surely doesn't sound like the UD of today. Whomever made the decision wasn't of the opinion that the UD-X connection was very important. Surely that's changed.

As for the number of teams in a BB conference.....I recall an explanation by Mike Tranghese, at the time BE commish, saying the ideal number is nine schools. That allows for a 16 game conference schedule, home-and-home. Some coaches feel very strongly about the fairness of home-and-home....and some feel that any more than 16 conference games is too many. That was his rationale. Obviously, conferences pay no attention to that line of reasoning.

As for the BE's 7 BB schools....as I've said, I think geographic balance would be the deciding factor if all 7 stayed together. MU and DU are no where near the other five. Those two schools would need three partners to form two five school divisions....a ten school league.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:45 PM
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Somehow this is a strange parallel to the Big East's flail to maintain relevancy.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/26/lindsa...updatedstories
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:20 AM
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UAC the decision to join the Great Midwest was made just before Kissell took over. The driving force was Jim O'Brien. With the AD office in transition he got the backing of the UD President and it was done.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:33 AM
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The "three ring circus" that conference realignment has become, and the BE in particular, got a less than positive review in yesterday's NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...vB3sMkpDB3iUCP). You'd think the folks at the Universities involved in this fiasco (the ADs, Presidents, Trustees, etc.), as well as the Conference leadership, would be embarrassed by these developments, but I guess the hubris runs so deep that nothing would/could make them blush.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...And leaving Xavier? Wow! That surely doesn't sound like the UD of today. Whomever made the decision wasn't of the opinion that the UD-X connection was very important. Surely that's changed...
It might be hard to believe now but Xavier was just one of many rivals, pretty much on par with the way most look at Miami today. The primary goal was to have our BB program associated with Marquette, DePaul and by association Notre Dame.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:00 AM
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It seems UConn could be academically ineligible to participate in the 2013 NCAA BB tournament...some of UConn's recent Academic Progress Rate scores are pretty dismal. I'm sure though with the amount of money involved in all this, and the fact this appears to be a new rule regarding eligibility, "something" will be worked out for UConn (and probably others) to get a waiver. Still, it looks to be rather embarrassing to say the least (if these folks can be embarrassed that is.) http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...0Ra5zMesNk5lHO
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:05 AM
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Very embarrassing.....

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
It seems UConn could be academically ineligible to participate in the 2013 NCAA BB tournament...some of UConn's recent Academic Progress Rate scores are pretty dismal. I'm sure though with the amount of money involved in all this, and the fact this appears to be a new rule regarding eligibility, "something" will be worked out for UConn (and probably others) to get a waiver. Still, it looks to be rather embarrassing to say the least (if these folks can be embarrassed that is.) http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...0Ra5zMesNk5lHO

.....for a school traditionally having very high academic standards for its athletes.

It's my opinion.....nothing more than opinion....that UConn men's BB finds itself in this situation for a few reasons, in no special order:

1. A celebrity coach who rolls right over the AD, compliance officers and even the president of the university. (But not his new president.) Calhoun is credited with having the AD fired a few months ago. A surprising thing is that during his 25+ years at UC there hasn't been trouble like this. Problems appear to have begun recently when JC began battling his several bouts of cancer,.... chemo, radiation, the works. Meds and treatment like that effect people differently. It's my theory that JC has not been himself in very recent years. The AD told the NCAA, believe it or not, that "he'd never seen Calhound act this way before."

2. UConn loses a disproportionately large number of guys to the NBA and to transfers who were HS stars and are not used to riding the bench. (Although that's not new for UConn.) Some of these guys just "quit" school when they know they're leaving.

3. With only 13 guys (max) on a BB team it doesn't take many to have a large impact on APRs and grad rates. UConn's current score is well above 900....almost 1000.....but with a multi-year average they're still in trouble in 2013. Given the sharp improvement, I think the NCAA will ease up a bit...allow more time.

4. Whatever the outcome, this matter is frontpage news in CT...is very embarrassing to a Top 20 public university...will not help connecting with an ACC-like conference...and will most assuredly be corrected ASAP by the new president. There are no acceptable excuses and UConn is well aware of that.

(Will UD take a hit with the BB players that left last year? In my opinion, if a kid is in good academic standing at the time he/she leaves there should be no penalty whatsoever.)

PS Again, in my opinion, UC's APR issues pale in comparison to cases of outright academic fraud such as occurred at UNC last year...one of the best public schools in the country.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:26 AM
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FWIW, cbs is reporting that WVU will announce as early as this morning an invite from the B12.

Chip Brown, the Texas mouthpiece (or so some claim) on their rivals site claims that both WVU & Louisville will get invites. Louisville will get their invite once Missouri officially declares for the SEC.

there are several other places tweeting that both WVU & louisville are going to be invited to the B12. All of this taken from varying message boards, so take it for what its worth (the tweets, the CBS piece I read at cbssports.com)

I wonder if the goal for now, is 11 in football, no conference championship game at the moment, and ND in all sports but football (and hockey) to form divisions in basketball, baseball, etc.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:36 AM
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Confirmed - WVU to Big 12

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ed-join-big-12


Missouri to SEC may not be far behind

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ers-conference


Last rites being administered to BE?

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Old 10-28-2011, 11:56 AM
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We must be missing something.

Why would any school want to join the BE....a conference in unpredictable turmoil?

It has been pointed out that BE schools are falling all over themselves to get out of the BE. BUT,....the BE schools leaving are doing so to join BCS conferences. The schools clamoring to join the BE are not currently in BCS conferences.

So, many say,..."The BE as a FB BCS conference is doomed..it will lose its AQ status". Think about that. Are the presidents, ADs, lawyers of the schools planning to join the BE all just stupid? Of course not. They know things that guys like us do not know.

Among the things they know,...or think they know,... is that the BE's BCS status is essentially assured for two more seasons. That's a pretty long time.
Also, I think they know that BCS rules are vague and subject to just about any interpretation one favors. Another thing I think they know or have learned is that kicking a conference out of the BCS system is as hard as a conference getting into the BCS system....ask the MWC, C-USA, etc.

If the BE loses WVU and even UL, trimming the conference down to four sad schools....but is able to add four, six, or eight new schools soon,....the following will happen: 1) the BE conference will still be a BCS conference; 2) it will release the schools leaving from the 27 mo exit requirement; 3) it will begin play with all or most of its new schools ASAP, i.e., next year; 4) it will be sufficiently stabilized and established so as to make it somewhere between very difficult and nearly impossible to lose its BCS AQ status. 5) it will still be a very weak BCS conference.

The guys in the "new" schools know all these things.
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  #776  
Old 10-28-2011, 12:16 PM
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Big 12- What did I miss?

Ok, what did I miss? Why does the Big 12 want to stay at 10 teams, when they could add both WVU and Louisville with the 12th team being UC. Twelve teams would allow them to keep the end of year football championship game. Why no talk of UC? Would add a decent TV market for Big 12, as well as a few regional rivalry games between the 3 Big East transplants.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:16 PM
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UAC, even if things work out the best for the BE in FB with the new additions, will anyone still care to watch their games? The Pitt/UConn game the other night seemed to be sparsely attended (at Pitt) and the TV ratings couldn't have been too good either. While they may get a decent TV contract from the likes of ESPN, I doubt if it will be anything close to what they're anticipating. Moreover, if WVa and UofL both bolt for the Big XII, will the non-FB schools want to be joined at the hip with the new additions, or will they be more prone to separate from the rest and have their own separate conference; I think it will be the latter. This really is a circus; it will be interesting to see where it all shakes out.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Oh Yea View Post
It might be hard to believe now but Xavier was just one of many rivals, pretty much on par with the way most look at Miami today. The primary goal was to have our BB program associated with Marquette, DePaul and by association Notre Dame.
when I attended UD (early 80s), XU wasn't even on the radar. We played them but no cared. It was about the 3 mentioned above and Miami was a bigger game and much tougher opponent back then. Times have changed.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Why would any school want to join the BE....a conference in unpredictable turmoil?

It has been pointed out that BE schools are falling all over themselves to get out of the BE. BUT,....the BE schools leaving are doing so to join BCS conferences. The schools clamoring to join the BE are not currently in BCS conferences.

So, many say,..."The BE as a FB BCS conference is doomed..it will lose its AQ status". Think about that. Are the presidents, ADs, lawyers of the schools planning to join the BE all just stupid? Of course not. They know things that guys like us do not know.

Among the things they know,...or think they know,... is that the BE's BCS status is essentially assured for two more seasons. That's a pretty long time.
Also, I think they know that BCS rules are vague and subject to just about any interpretation one favors. Another thing I think they know or have learned is that kicking a conference out of the BCS system is as hard as a conference getting into the BCS system....ask the MWC, C-USA, etc.

If the BE loses WVU and even UL, trimming the conference down to four sad schools....but is able to add four, six, or eight new schools soon,....the following will happen: 1) the BE conference will still be a BCS conference; 2) it will release the schools leaving from the 27 mo exit requirement; 3) it will begin play with all or most of its new schools ASAP, i.e., next year; 4) it will be sufficiently stabilized and established so as to make it somewhere between very difficult and nearly impossible to lose its BCS AQ status. 5) it will still be a very weak BCS conference.

The guys in the "new" schools know all these things.

A lot of "guys" haven't shown a lot of smarts or common sense so far. What makes you think they have suddenly got their wits about them. The BE is the buggy whip of college football.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:25 PM
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As I recall, the BCS does have guidelines. But they are not written in stone. The members can change them at any time to suit their purposes. And the BCS's main purpose, aside from making money hand-over-fist, is to maintain the staus quo.

The BCS Carrtel MUST have a simple majority of the football schools classified as FBS by the NCAA. With that majority they keep most all of the bowl money to themselves. Lose that majority and the cartel is gone, voted out by the "have nots" classified as FBS.

I think UAC may be on to something. Why would these new programs rush on to the Titanic unless they knew something? Perhaps that there is a backroom agreement to let the BE keep BCS status --regardless of actual on-field performance-- if it can just round up enough schools (say 10) to keep on playing AND keep the AQ schools' slim majority in the BCS.

Sounds reasonable. After all, Mike Tranghese was the head of the BCS for a while. If anyone could pull this off, it would be him.

Last edited by bobber; 10-28-2011 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
when I attended UD (early 80s), XU wasn't even on the radar. We played them but no cared. It was about the 3 mentioned above and Miami was a bigger game and much tougher opponent back then. Times have changed.
I hear you , Sea Bass. When I was at UD, 67-71, the X game was considered a "W". A few years ago, at the A-10 tournament in AC, I had a very nice conversation with an X fan of my era. He stated that in his four years at X he wanted to see X beat UD ONCE......it never happened! We were independants then and played twice a season. So in his four years at X, UD played X 8 times, all wins for the Flyers. The biggest rivalries back then were L'Ville and Notre Dame. DePaul wasn't real good back then either. The Donoher McGuire "feud" resulted in us only playing them once, if I remember correctly, while I attended UD.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:44 PM
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I know that UD started playing Marquette again when I was at UD but by then Raymonds was the head coach. Didn't know there was a Donoher-McGuire thing
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:57 PM
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I guess the proof will be in the pudding in the next couple of weeks. I doubt they're taking a blind leap of faith, so if they jump in, they must feel pretty comfortable that they either have a Auto Bid pretty well secured, or they have a safe fall back position. If Boise, Airforce & navy appear hesitant in the next couple of weeks, then perhaps thats a sign that no is quite sure what's going on.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:57 PM
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As I remember it, McGuire stopped the UD-Marquette games because he didn't want to play in the Fieldhouse any more. Once the Arena was built McGuire then wanted to resume the rivalry but Mick was ticked off and told him no. I'm sure someone with a better recollection of the events than I can relate the story.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
UAC the decision to join the Great Midwest was made just before Kissell took over. The driving force was Jim O'Brien. With the AD office in transition he got the backing of the UD President and it was done.
Also, at that time UD was much more closely aligned with DePaul, Marquette, and Notre Dame than it was with Xavier. Remember, they formed the "Great Independents" in the 80's with those three schools. They left the MCC to align with Marquette and DePaul, and to a lesser degree, St Louis, again. DePaul ruined the MCC first by not joining and then by helping to convince Marquette and St Louis to leave the MCC and form the Great Midwest.The MCC would have been a heck of a conference had DePaul joined - Marquette, DePaul, St Louis, Dayton, Xavier, Butler, Evansville, Loyola, and Detroit. Coincidently, those first six are exactly what many of us are now hoping for as the Western Division of the "new" Big East.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:13 PM
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I'm a big fan of tradition and for as big a reason as any I've been hoping for a Big East implosion so that UD would be reunited with Marquette and DePaul. Throw us in a league with those two schools and Xavier/St. Louis/Duquesne, and I'd be content almost regardless of what other schools rounded out the lineup. I want a Midwestern Catholic league dammit!
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
As I remember it, McGuire stopped the UD-Marquette games because he didn't want to play in the Fieldhouse any more. Once the Arena was built McGuire then wanted to resume the rivalry but Mick was ticked off and told him no. I'm sure someone with a better recollection of the events than I can relate the story.
Correct, McGuire didn't want to play in UD's "tiny gym." When the arena roof collapsed during construction, McGuire sent Donoher a note saying something like, "Hey Mick, I heard your new gym caved in." I'm not sure Donoher was amused.

Last edited by longtimefan; 10-28-2011 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
...
And leaving Xavier? Wow! That surely doesn't sound like the UD of today. Whomever made the decision wasn't of the opinion that the UD-X connection was very important. Surely that's changed.
Actually, not that much of a mystery - look at the *other* Cincinnati team in the Great Midwest. Think they would have allowed X in? No way. I don't know if UD pushed to bring X in with them, but if/when told "Come by yourself or don't come at all" there wasn't anything they could do.

Important to keep in mind that X might face the same decision in the future. Couldn't blame them if they make the same choice.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cintibUD View Post
Actually, not that much of a mystery - look at the *other* Cincinnati team in the Great Midwest. Think they would have allowed X in? No way. I don't know if UD pushed to bring X in with them, but if/when told "Come by yourself or don't come at all" there wasn't anything they could do.

Important to keep in mind that X might face the same decision in the future. Couldn't blame them if they make the same choice.
But where is UC going in all of this shuffle? They always seem to be the afterthought among the BCS conferences when there is talk of conference restructuring. I have a hard time seeing UC play in a league with X, so UC has to vacate the Big East before X ends up there. By the time UC is gone from the Big East, the Big East is either an all Catholic league or a really crappy football wannabe league.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:30 PM
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The BCS schools would still have the majority over non-BCS even if the 5 remaining Big East schools were kicked out.

ACC (14) + SEC (14) + Big Ten (12) + Pac 12 (12) + Big 12 (10+) = 62

There are only 120 FBS schools. That's without counting ND or anymore Big East defections to legitimate BCS conferences.

There is no chance the BCS 5 allow the Big East to keep BCS status after this latest round of realignment. They were granted an extension last time due to the ACC's poaching. A conference with zero national titles in the last 30 years won't be getting BCS status anytime soon.

If you're a C-USA school you should move to the Big East. Better basketball for one. The Big East is a better name brand than C-USA (for whatever that's worth). Playing football against Cincy, Rutgers, UConn and USF is better than Tulane, Rice, UTEP, Marshall and UAB. And a school like UCF would be paired up with local "rival" USF.

It's a lot like how many on here would love to join the Big East Catholic schools for a basketball-only conference. Even though Pitt, Cuse, UConn, UC, UL and WVU would be gone and the conference would've definitely taken a hit, it's worth it to be with Marquette, St. John's, Villanova and Georgetown. I don't think those 4 are much better than the 4 best the A-10 and CAA could produce, from which the Big East would likely add.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:41 PM
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Seem to be contradicting yourself.

Originally Posted by FSUFlyer View Post
The BCS schools would still have the majority over non-BCS even if the 5 remaining Big East schools were kicked out.

ACC (14) + SEC (14) + Big Ten (12) + Pac 12 (12) + Big 12 (10+) = 62

There are only 120 FBS schools. That's without counting ND or anymore Big East defections to legitimate BCS conferences.

There is no chance the BCS 5 allow the Big East to keep BCS status after this latest round of realignment. They were granted an extension last time due to the ACC's poaching. A conference with zero national titles in the last 30 years won't be getting BCS status anytime soon.

If you're a C-USA school you should move to the Big East. Better basketball for one. The Big East is a better name brand than C-USA (for whatever that's worth). Playing football against Cincy, Rutgers, UConn and USF is better than Tulane, Rice, UTEP, Marshall and UAB. And a school like UCF would be paired up with local "rival" USF.

It's a lot like how many on here would love to join the Big East Catholic schools for a basketball-only conference. Even though Pitt, Cuse, UConn, UC, UL and WVU would be gone and the conference would've definitely taken a hit, it's worth it to be with Marquette, St. John's, Villanova and Georgetown. I don't think those 4 are much better than the 4 best the A-10 and CAA could produce, from which the Big East would likely add.
On the oen hand you say there's no chance the BCS 5 will allow the BE to retain BCS status.....and you say C-USA schools should join the BE.

This is all about football...not the BE's better BB. In fact, the level of BB in the BE is a deterent to C-USA schools which can look forward to getting slaughtered in BB. The move is for FB in a BCS conference.

One writer pointed out that even without BCS status a conference with TV markets in NYC, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, Cincinnatti, Louisville, etc, will be able to negotiate a much better TV contract than either the current BE or C-USA.
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
On the oen hand you say there's no chance the BCS 5 will allow the BE to retain BCS status.....and you say C-USA schools should join the BE.

This is all about football...not the BE's better BB. In fact, the level of BB in the BE is a deterent to C-USA schools which can look forward to getting slaughtered in BB. The move is for FB in a BCS conference.
What does your first paragraph have to do with anything? Just because they won't be AQ doesn't mean some schools shouldn't make the move.

As for the 2nd, they could also look at it as an opportunity to upgrade their programs and recruit better. You're full of it if you think it's only a deterrent.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:08 PM
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A bit puzzling.....

Originally Posted by FSUFlyer View Post
What does your first paragraph have to do with anything? Just because they won't be AQ doesn't mean some schools shouldn't make the move.

As for the 2nd, they could also look at it as an opportunity to upgrade their programs and recruit better. You're full of it if you think it's only a deterrent.
Recall, the motivator here is football. With that in mind, you seem to be saying that the group of schools comprised of Rutgers, South Fla, UConn, Louisville and Cincinnatti is so superior to the schools in C-USA and MWC so as to justify a change in conference. I'll bet there are quite a few Priders that would take issue with that assertion.

Personally, I happen to think that a FB conference comprised of the five remaining BE remnants along with UCF, UH, SMU, BSU, AF, Navy has attractive features and considerable potential. (Geography is not one of the attractive features.)
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Recall, the motivator here is football. With that in mind, you seem to be saying that the group of schools comprised of Rutgers, South Fla, UConn, Louisville and Cincinnatti is so superior to the schools in C-USA and MWC so as to justify a change in conference. I'll bet there are quite a few Priders that would take issue with that assertion.

Personally, I happen to think that a FB conference comprised of the five remaining BE remnants along with UCF, UH, SMU, BSU, AF, Navy has attractive features and considerable potential. (Geography is not one of the attractive features.)
UAC...the football conference you are suggesting is the equivalent of the current A-10 or Mountain West basketball conference from a basketball perspective. A good league, but not a BCS league.

Actually, after examining it more closely, I would suggest that the top 2-3 teams in the Atlantic 10 in any given year would be MUCH more competitve with the top BCS basketball teams vs. the top 2-3 FB team from this proposed conference against the top BCS football teams.

Outline who you propose would be the the "Xavier, Temple, sometimes UD/GW/St.Joe/Richmond" from this new FB "BCS" conference? Who would compete against the top FB teams in the SEC, Big10, Big12, Pac10?
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:33 AM
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Competing against the top BCS teams....

Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
UAC...the football conference you are suggesting is the equivalent of the current A-10 or Mountain West basketball conference from a basketball perspective. A good league, but not a BCS league.

Actually, after examining it more closely, I would suggest that the top 2-3 teams in the Atlantic 10 in any given year would be MUCH more competitve with the top BCS basketball teams vs. the top 2-3 FB team from this proposed conference against the top BCS football teams.

Outline who you propose would be the the "Xavier, Temple, sometimes UD/GW/St.Joe/Richmond" from this new FB "BCS" conference? Who would compete against the top FB teams in the SEC, Big10, Big12, Pac10?

Springboro, you are right,....sort of. But, remember. most of the teams in the SEC, Big 10 , Big 12 and PAC 10 don't compete well against the top teams in those confernences. Check the scores of Saturday games in those conferences....many games are routs.

While the better teams in the proposed BE (their proposed teams, not mine!) are not like LSU, currently Boise State, Houston and Cincinnatti are ranked teams....Boise in the top ten.

There is another angle re the A 10 BB analogy. No one is forecasting or expecting a sudden investment on the part of many A10 schools in order to elevate the conference to BE, Big 10, ACC basketball level. In contrast, IF the teams the BE is courting for FB do, in fact, become BE members, those schools will start pumping money into their programs in order to elevate their level of play...just as Louisville, Cincinnatti and USF did when they joined the BE ~ 7 years ago.

The geography is screwy, the "names" are not associated with big time FB, etc., but give the proposed conference a few years and the potential for major improvement is there. And to repeat...right now three of the proposed schools are ranked mid-way through the current season.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:35 AM
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My recollection of long-term rivalries from the late '60s through early '70s does not include either Marquette or ND; Louisville, Cinci, Miami (OH), X, Detroit and DePaul, yes. While we all "got up" for the ND game when we started to play them, we'd been joined at the hip with X and Miami for most of our history; we didn't really start playing ND until the 1969-1970 season (after we beat them in the NIT in March'68) and we really had only two games with Marquette prior to the '80s.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:43 AM
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An interesting article in today's NY Post indicates that WVa plans to begin play in the Big XII as early as the 2012 season. It looks like WVa plans on challenging (or possibly ignoring) the BE 27-month clause (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...xNzAQAOeolzajN). More fun and games, huh?
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:10 AM
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All depends on the "new" BE FB conference.

Originally Posted by Bat'71 View Post
An interesting article in today's NY Post indicates that WVa plans to begin play in the Big XII as early as the 2012 season. It looks like WVa plans on challenging (or possibly ignoring) the BE 27-month clause (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/colle...xNzAQAOeolzajN). More fun and games, huh?
If the BE is able to land 5-7 new schools that are able to play FB in 2012, I think they'll want to get rid of WVU ASAP, along with Pitt and SU. But, until that happens the BE has no choice but to play hardball. The three schools that are leaving all signed on to the 27 mo exit period. They knew what they were doing.

A reasonable financial settlement seems likely.

Another issue is USA's and MW's exit period...assuming they have ones. Everyone will be reasonable, I think, so long as the Big East's gets restructured in a timely manner. Once that happens it's in everyone's interest to put this sorry scenario behind them and get on with life.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:55 AM
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I can't believe the non-FB schools will be happy with CFU, SMU and Houston joining their ranks for all sports. When you add them to SHU, Rutgers, Providence, USF and (recently) DePaul, the RPI of the conference is going to tank. I can see why Rick Pitino at UofL wants to add Memphis and Temple, instead of some of these other schools, but it doesn't appear the FB schools want Memphis and 'Nova probably can't abide another Philly school. The BE really looks like a dysfunctional and jerry-built configuration of schools that have less and less in common; with this type of foundation it doesn't look like the BE will be long for this world. UConn, Louisville, Cinci and Rutgers better have a plan B, C and D ready for their FB programs if the ACC and Big XII don't ride to their collective rescue and the non-FB schools should be making plans for a separate program.
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Flyer 86 (10-30-2011)
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:09 PM
Viperstick Viperstick is offline
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I think the A-10 needs to go offensive on this. If the Big East is talking about poaching one of our flagship schools (Temple), the A-10 needs to respond in kind--throw an offer out to Marquette, DePaul, & St Johns to join the A-10. Coupled with maneuvering to place Fordham & LaSalle in some other lesser tier eastern conference, you dramatically improve the look of the A-10. DePaul & Marquette give you pretty good penetration into the Chicago market and greatly expand the conference's footprint in the midwest. The A-10 can offer arguably as competitive a conference with good east coast & midwest coverage, without the football driven madness.
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