BIG EAST 7 Meet And Make Big Announcement!

[xubrew]

The Atlantic Ten is a hodgepodge of different types of institutions, but ultimately I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that it is a hodgepodge of different athletic philosophies.

Institutionally, La Salle and Fordham are very similar to Xavier and Dayton. Athletically, there are a few planets in between.

Air Force could not possibly be more different as an institution than Colorado State, San Diego State and UNLV. When it comes to athletics, though, it works. Same with Wake and NC State. Same with Creighton and Wichita State. Same with Liberty (who institutionally is not similar in any way to any place else) and UNC Asheville. Institutions that couldn't possibly be more different can still be similar when it comes to athletics, and it works.

I just can't think of a reason that VCU would be considered a detriment. Not one. It seems ludicrous to think that they would be.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[ud2]

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4719

This may have already been posted. There is some speculation that Cincinnati and Connecticut could be joining the new C7 conference in all sports but football.

I don't know how realistic the chances of this actually happening are. If those 2 schools were added to the C7 conference, then that would certainly hurt UD's chances of getting picked.

[hawkoooo]

St. Joe's isn't even being considered because of sharing Philly w/ Nova even though they have more tournament bids than any other potential candidate by far.

Knowing that, I don't see ANY chance of this new conference taking Cincinnati, Xavier, and Dayton.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Bat'71]

Well, it looks like "ajerseyguy" has now touched on every conceivable outcome. As someone Posted earlier in this Thread, nobody knows, but everyone has a theory and one of them is bound to be right. I'm a little surprised he didn't include UD in any of his scenarios, but IMHO, it's unlikely that Cinci and X could co-exist in harmony (so I'm kinda with Hawkooo on this.) BTW, that's the first I've heard of a "rivalry" between Providence and UConn.

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by ud2 http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4719 This may have already been posted. There is some speculation that Cincinnati and Connecticut could be joining the new C7 conference in all sports but football. I don't know how realistic the chances of this actually happening are. If those 2 schools were added to the C7 conference, then that would certainly hurt UD's chances of getting picked.

It wont happen, why let someone in who would bolt to the Big 12 or ACC for football. No way

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo St. Joe's isn't even being considered because of sharing Philly w/ Nova even though they have more tournament bids than any other potential candidate by far. Knowing that, I don't see ANY chance of this new conference taking Cincinnati, Xavier, and Dayton.

The 5 are Dayton,X,Butler,VCU and St Louis joining the league

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[xubrew]

What's left of the Big East is by no means elite. Perhaps it's not even "major." It's still a lot better than God-Awful, though.

Cincinnati, UConn and Memphis are solid basketball programs. None of them a re strangers to the rankings. If you have three teams that are consistently in the rankings, you're doing a lot better than most. South Florida and UCF aren't bad either. UCF can't be in the tournament this year because of sanctions (similar to UConn), but they probably would have been if they were allowed to be. South Florida just opened a new arena, and have built themselves up to where they are consistently a fringe tournament team.

The football is crap, but where is anyone going to go that's any better?? UCF, Houston, Cincinnati and UConn are at least semi-decent. It's not as good as the other major conferences, but it's probably better than the MAC, SBC and what's left of the WAC. I think their best bet is to try and make what they have work. It's not too far fetched to think that it could work, at least to the level that it's better than any other existing option.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug The Big East has always been a hodgepodge of public/private.

...and looked what happened to the Big East. It blew up. Epic debacle.

Originally Posted by UDDoug Football is changing the landscape. Not institutional fit. The public/private mix always has worked. Posted via Mobile Device

It's worked because it's been forced to work, not because it makes sense or is desirable. Indeed, football is driving this nonsensical madness. But why let football dictate everything?

Catholic basketball-centric league.* Take control of your own destiny. Sensible. Stable. Institutionally sound and consistent. Back to the roots. Stand out from the crowd. Inevitable. Make it happen.

* I'll admit I'm a softie for Butler, so I'll personally overlook any institutional differences. You know, Hoosiers, Hinkle Fieldhouse, state of Indiana basketball tradition, etc.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by xubrew The Atlantic Ten is a hodgepodge of different types of institutions, but ultimately I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is that it is a hodgepodge of different athletic philosophies. Institutionally, La Salle and Fordham are very similar to Xavier and Dayton. Athletically, there are a few planets in between. Air Force could not possibly be more different as an institution than Colorado State, San Diego State and UNLV. When it comes to athletics, though, it works. Same with Wake and NC State. Same with Creighton and Wichita State. Same with Liberty (who institutionally is not similar in any way to any place else) and UNC Asheville. Institutions that couldn't possibly be more different can still be similar when it comes to athletics, and it works. I just can't think of a reason that VCU would be considered a detriment. Not one. It seems ludicrous to think that they would be.

Good points, but the Catholic-basketball conference would be similar both institutionally and in athletic philosophy. Two for the price of one...

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 The 5 are Dayton,X,Butler,VCU and St Louis joining the league

How is it that several posters know exactly what is going to happen yet the mainstream media is seemingly in the dark?

[NorthwestFlyer]

Whoever the new members are, don't be surprised if Marquette finds a way to be in the same division as G-town and Nova, despite the obvious geography being grouped with the midwest schools.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Reality is that several in the main stream media-----do have it right----but so many are reporting about "it" that it's more than muddled on the whole!

How long do you guys think this has been in the works? Since December---October---August----June---December 2011??

Many "problems" with some of the "mainstream" media opinions and other stuff being reported is that most of those reporting have clear "favorites" of there own, are reporting what they are from there "sources" both inside and out side of a number of programs interested in joining a new conference, OR might just be looking to sell newspapers, etc.

There was a report this weekend that the Creighton AD confirmed that he hadn't been approached---fact or fiction (based upon what someone posted above?)--you make the choice! Some folks blew right past that....we'll see...

Reality is that some folks are friends with people at UD that they speak to regularly about these types of things and many others. There NOT relationships that were made over night--and trust is an essential element---fact NOT fiction.

I think some folks on this forum and several others have those kinds of contacts and have been told things that lead them to believe that UD is going to be invited or has been invited to join---pending some final work to make it all happen!

We'll knnow in time, but lots of reasons why the Flyers are a firm fit in this potential new league---despite all the experts and prognosticators who think that the loss to VCU mattered at this point?

It's never DONE until the ink is dry----and things always can change right---we'll see how it all shakes out. Go Flyers

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer ...and looked what happened to the Big East. It blew up. Epic debacle.

the blow up of the Big East had nothing to with the private/public mix. Heck, one of the private Catholics started the whole mess by noting to the ACC. If this was about private/public then BC would have stuck with the C7.

The tensions in the Big East are driven almost entirely by football. Prior to this everyone who left did so for football. And the C7 are leaving now because of who is coming in for football. And the lack if a payday to stick with the remaining football schools.

As to why football is driving - like everything else in college sports it us $.
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 The 5 are Dayton,X,Butler,VCU and St Louis joining the league

Source?

[bobber]

It seems likely that the new league was in the development stage for months, if not years, before the press started reporting on it.

It seems likely that the new league could not be negotiating a TV contract without having a solid, defined product to offer.

It also seems likely that the participants will remain silent until all the "i's" are dotted and the "t's" crossed and a Commissioner and a name are secured or decided upon.

It also seems likely that many of us will go insane before any definitive announcement is made regarding membership in the new conference.

Aaaaaggghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug the blow up of the Big East had nothing to with the private/public mix. Posted via Mobile Device

True, it had to with a combination of factors -- including football-centric vs. basketball-centric schools -- but none of which would really afflict the C10 (or 12).

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

If he has one (and he might, I agree with the post above that some here do have inside knowledge), he isn't going to cite it. That would be the end of that info.

And it could be someone pretending to have inside info they don't possess.

The days of everything being sourced are over. It's the way of the world today, love it or hate it. But it just is.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer True, it had to with a combination of factors -- including football-centric vs. basketball-centric schools -- but none of which would really afflict the C10 (or 12).

it isn't even football centric or basketball centric. Louisville isn't football centric. Neither is Syracuse. And in the remaining Big East, UConn, Cincinnati and Memphis are not football centric. Those are all first and foremost basketball schools. They play BCS football, but they are basketball schools. There is just too much money in football.

The public/private mix works fine in the ACC. Duke, Wake, Miami, Notre Dame and BC get along just fine with UNC, Florida State, Virginia and NC State because they have similar athletic programs. If they split it will be for $, not a public/private issue.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shocka43]

There have been very reliable sources state what teams will be included...those posted seem to be very much in line with those.

UD hasn't been sitting on certain things because they are unsure about future finances and investment into facilities without a "plan".

UD hasn't been "working tirelessly" because they are just trying to get their foot in the door.

TV deals and negotiations behind closed doors remain behind closed doors because they aren't subject to public record or media. However, they won't have a problem discussing it with someone who isn't holding a camera, mic, or tape recorder....that may just chat with a supporter of the program.

There is a ton going on right now. A TV deal won't be in place without teams. Teams and commitments from them would come before any multimillion dollar.

We will most likely see a dog and pony show with the teams, and/or divisions, media rights and details of contracts, to come out all at once. I would bet some of the details are pretty much set pending closing of other deals....

As Doug said...many aren't going to source their information out of respect....when someone in the media says, "speaking on a condition of anonymity"...there is a reason for it...posters do the same.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by UDDoug If he has one (and he might, I agree with the post above that some here do have inside knowledge), he isn't going to cite it. That would be the end of that info. And it could be someone pretending to have inside info they don't possess. The days of everything being sourced are over. It's the way of the world today, love it or hate it. But it just is. Posted via Mobile Device

I wasn't expecting an answer. I just thought I would ask. But, I have posted a couple of things over the years that I got from a source "close to the program." Of course, I would never reveal a name, and I didn't expect him to, but he could give us a hint of where he got the info without revealing a specific source.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

Me, of course

[Sea Bass]

did someone call in a dirty sanchez sighting to the proper authority? Or maybe it is Dustin Daamond impersonating dirty.

[hawkoooo]

SLU over Creighton would be a baffling choice. Hell, even SLU over Wichita State doesn't make much sense. At least with WSU you would get another public school to pair with VCU. Maybe the C7 doesn't feel as comfortable raiding the MVC as they do the A10?

I know the Lou is a better market than both Omaha and Wichita, but other than that SLU is a real head-scratcher with both Creighton and WSU ready and willing to come on board.

If this new conference is really about being the "best of the best" in the basketball world, I think SLU over the two MVC powers is a really questionable move.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[xubrew]

Saint Louis is easier to get to than Omaha or Wichita. I also think the Saint Louis market is playing a role. It shouldn't, but it will.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[rollo]

St. Louis = roadtrip!

[bobber]

The wild conjecture still flourishes on other fan boards. You'd think UD was trashed as a member a long time ago, and now the idea of adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's is, as they say, trending.

[Chris R]

Forget whether we are in this new league, whether we are liked in this new league, and whether we sold our souls to the devil to be in this new league.

Can we COMPETE in this new league? I think that remains highly in doubt. At least to the competitive level that we all desire. Finishing in the bottom half of that league every year will not be considered acceptable. But is finishing in the top half of the league considerable probable? I see the Top-6 in the new C12 no better or worse than the Top-6 in the current A10. And we practically need Moses to come down and part the sea for us to finish in the top-6 of the A10 in the last decade. The historical body of work suggests we would struggle in this league as well on a mens basketball front.

In other sports -- I see some benefits. VBall would still be a favorite. Womens soccer would step it up and do fine. Mens soccer could probably make a step up. Womens hoops? No doubt. But all of these programs is not like the other -- they earn hardware and postseason bids.

[NorthwestFlyer]

I think we will be able to compete in the new league. Finish in the top 4 consistently, probably not, but I think we will have a better chance of attracting the talent we desire to move up, and a top 6 finish probably gets a bid come march in this new league.

I am not sure why folks have gotten so sour so quickly about the direction we are headed. AM has 1.5 years under his belt. Grabbing a new coach with an "almost" team is almost always going to be a set back and take a few years to rebuild I would suspect. I looked at this year as a rebuilding year. We have done better than expected at times, and worse. We are inconsistent and for the most part young with an obvious changing in the guard between coaches.

Moving into a new league while potentially expanding our midwest rivalaries (Chicago and Milwaukee) and maintaining an east coast presence during conference play, and having a several more name brand colleges come to the arena every year... I can't figure out what is not to like about the potential of joining this new conference.

I wish the A10 would stay as it is for a few more years, but it is going to get picked. I don't want to miss the ship. If we do, the sentiment will change to fire the AD.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Chris R Can we COMPETE in this new league? I think that remains highly in doubt. At least to the competitive level that we all desire.

Swim in the middle of the A10 for spare change, or swim in the middle of the C7 for lottery money?

I won't say that association guarantees the best players and results, but I think it helps us more than it helps those that have already been on that level. We can invest more into certain things that people want to get there. (coach, staff, etc...) Much easier on UD to invest BCS type salaries to coaches than it is now.

As a fan it will add more excitement. But who knows what the end results will be. Noting guarantees we are the best every year in a revised A10 either.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug it isn't even football centric or basketball centric. Posted via Mobile Device

Okay, how about we word it basketball-centric schools vs. schools that play BCS football?

Any way you want to parse it, the conference was a hodgepodge of institutional oddballs just waiting to explode. Their differences ultimately could not be reconciled.

Originally Posted by UDDoug The public/private mix works fine in the ACC. Duke, Wake, Miami, Notre Dame and BC get along just fine with UNC, Florida State, Virginia and NC State because they have similar athletic programs. If they split it will be for $, not a public/private issue.

What do you mean by "works"? Sure, they'll make money and play in a good conference for awhile, but should Notre Dame really be in the ACC? I tend to agree with XUBrew that in ten or fifteen years, people will look back and wonder how we all thought this football-driven hodgepodge nonsense would be a good idea.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 The 5 are Dayton,X,Butler,VCU and St Louis joining the league

VCU over Creighton? I'm so confused...

[Flyer Dave]

Originally Posted by Chris R Forget whether we are in this new league, whether we are liked in this new league, and whether we sold our souls to the devil to be in this new league. Can we COMPETE in this new league? I think that remains highly in doubt. At least to the competitive level that we all desire. Finishing in the bottom half of that league every year will not be considered acceptable. But is finishing in the top half of the league considerable probable? I see the Top-6 in the new C12 no better or worse than the Top-6 in the current A10. And we practically need Moses to come down and part the sea for us to finish in the top-6 of the A10 in the last decade. The historical body of work suggests we would struggle in this league as well on a mens basketball front. In other sports -- I see some benefits. VBall would still be a favorite. Womens soccer would step it up and do fine. Mens soccer could probably make a step up. Womens hoops? No doubt. But all of these programs is not like the other -- they earn hardware and postseason bids.

You may only be looking at our conference record the past decade. Maybe if you look at our record against the BCS schools or just the Big East schools, things may look a little better.???

[bobber]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles VCU over Creighton? I'm so confused...

Creighton is a good school and Catholic. But..............it is way, way West of St. Louis. The Eastern schools are not likely to want to send their olympic sports teams hundreds of miles West of the Mississippi. That would be costly and time-consuming.

VCU isn't private or Catholic, but......it does not have football ambitions, it has a decent sized TV market, and it seems willing to invest in its existing athletic program. And geographically it fits in nicely with the other C7-12 schools.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by Flyer Dave You may only be looking at our conference record the past decade. Maybe if you look at our record against the BCS schools or just the Big East schools, things may look a little better.???

Whos to say we beat those teams however if they are now conference matches where half the games are on opposing home courts and none of this neutral court stuff.

We all know what January 1 does to this program.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by Chris R . . . we practically need Moses to come down and part the sea for us to finish in the top-6 of the A10 in the last decade. . .

Dayton's historical record in the A-10:

Year (number of teams) finish postseason (top six finish in bold)

95/96 (12) - 4th (West)
96/97 (12) - 4th (West)
97/98 (12) - 3rd (West) - NIT
98/99 (12) - 6th (West)
99/00 (12) - 1st (West) - NCAA
00/01 (11) - 6th - NIT
01/02 (12) - 3rd (West) - NIT
02/03 (12) - 2nd (West) - NCAA
03/04 (12) - 1st (West) - NCAA
04/05 (12) - 3rd (West)
05/06 (14) - 12th
06/07 (14) - 7th
07/08 (14) - 8th - NIT
08/09 (14) - 3rd - NCAA
09/10 (14) - 7th - NIT
10/11 (14) - 9th - NIT
11/12 (14) - 7th - NIT
12/13 (16) - ? - ?

__________________
That rug really tied the room together . . .
Walter - The Big Lebowski

[UD90]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark Dayton's historical record in the A-10: Year (number of teams) finish postseason (top six finish in bold) 95/96 (12) - 4th (West) 96/97 (12) - 4th (West) 97/98 (12) - 3rd (West) - NIT 98/99 (12) - 6th (West) 99/00 (12) - 1st (West) - NCAA 00/01 (11) - 6th - NIT 01/02 (12) - 3rd (West) - NIT 02/03 (12) - 2nd (West) - NCAA 03/04 (12) - 1st (West) - NCAA 04/05 (12) - 3rd (West) 05/06 (14) - 12th 06/07 (14) - 7th 07/08 (14) - 8th - NIT 08/09 (14) - 3rd - NCAA 09/10 (14) - 7th - NIT 10/11 (14) - 9th - NIT 11/12 (14) - 7th - NIT 12/13 (16) - ? - ? __________________ That rug really tied the room together . . . Walter - The Big Lebowski

Hmm...

When did we eliminate East and West divisions and go to an unbalanced scheduled? 2006? Since the elimination of divisions - We've finished 12th, 7th, 8th, 3rd, 7th, 9th, 7th for an average place of 7.57

I'll say it again. The pod system has killed us. The year we finished 3rd was the year we were named the luckiest team by Pomeroy because of all of our close wins.

Revisiting this again .... On our 3rd place finishes prior to 2006 - you have to account for the fact that our 3rd place finishes were the equivalent of finishing 5th or 6th out of a 12 team conference. Not much different than finishing 7th or 8th out of a 14-16 team conference.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by UD90 Hmm... When did we eliminate East and West divisions and go to an unbalanced scheduled? 2006? Since the elimination of divisions - We've finished 12th, 7th, 8th, 3rd, 7th, 9th, 7th for an average place of 7.57 I'll say it again. The pod system has killed us. The year we finished 3rd was the year we were named the luckiest team by Pomeroy because of all of our close wins. Revisiting this again .... On our 3rd place finishes prior to 2006 - you have to account for the fact that our 3rd place finishes were the equivalent of finishing 5th or 6th out of a 12 team conference. Not much different than finishing 7th or 8th out of a 14-16 team conference.

So true about the pod system. We seem to find a pod with some of the best teams that racks up an additional 1 or 2 loses on the record, but maintain an upper RPI to keep from dropping from some of the really low RPI teams in the conference. A lot of those 7th place finishes are that way because of tie breakers with teams with identical records.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Football is changing the landscape. Not institutional fit. The public/private mix always has worked. Posted via Mobile Device

I don't think anyone is debating that. Money and/or necessity can make just about anything "work." Money's funny that way. The Big East "worked" because of money, and then it blew up because of money. The current A-10 (arguably) "works" out of necessity.

But what some us are saying is that we would prefer to be in a conference with institutionally similar schools. We're not saying that a private/public mix absolutely can't work; it already "works" (arguably) with the A-10. But the C-10(12) makes even more sense (arguably, of course) and provides a logical unity and cohesion not often found in modern day conferences. Providence just simply makes more sense than Rhode Island.

You're right that institutional fit isn't driving the changing landscape. But what you're missing is that's precisely the point and the problem...

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[UDDoug]

Not missing it, just don't think it matters nearly as much as a fit with similar athletic interests. That's why the ACC "works". Even though there is public/private difference, the athletic departments have nearly identical interests despite their insitutional differences. I just think that's all that matters, and VCU is a better fit than Creighton because of geography.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by Chris R Can we COMPETE in this new league? I think that remains highly in doubt. At least to the competitive level that we all desire.

Definitely in doubt. But I tend to agree with Shocka that it may help a lot more than it hurts. I think there are a number of issues with recruiting kids to Dayton (city, smaller talent base in area than a Philadelphia, surrounding programs more appealing). A stronger conference, with more television exposure and more name recognition may overcome some of that. And the money can't hurt.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug I just think that's all that matters, and VCU is a better fit than Creighton because of geography.

Creighton's geography certainly poses an issue. VCU is an enticing fit. I could certainly live with that.

I agree with Cleveland, though, that Richmond is still an overall better fit than VCU. I know we're probably in the minority on that one, though...

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Creighton's geography certainly poses an issue. VCU is an enticing fit. I could certainly live with that. I agree with Cleveland, though, that Richmond is still an overall better fit than VCU. I know we're probably in the minority on that one, though...

Yes, definitely so.

The best thing Richmond has going for it is Chris Mooney. When it comes to the two athletic departments, I think VCU's is better in pretty much every single area. If Mooney every leaves, there is nothing to indicate that Richmond will continue to be successful.

I like Richmond. If I had my druthers, SLU, Butler, UD, XU, Richmond, VCU and Saint Joe's would be leaving the Atlantic Ten and forming our own conference rather than joining up with the BE7. But, if I had to choose between the two, it's VCU all day long.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by xubrew Yes, definitely so. The best thing Richmond has going for it is Chris Mooney.

...and a nicer campus, better academics, a private school, a larger basketball arena...

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer ...and a nicer campus, better academics, a private school, a larger basketball arena...

Ehh, I tend to ignore things like that.

In all seriousness, I probably should value things like that more. I tend to focus on the personnel, and only the personnel.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by UD90 I'll say it again. The pod system has killed us. The year we finished 3rd was the year we were named the luckiest team by Pomeroy because of all of our close wins.

Forgive me UD90, this isn't directed at you.

When the pod system was first announced, I remember fans fretting that we'd get stuck playing bottom feeders Fordham & SBU home-home which would annihilate our RPI. Well, we got paired with SLU & Charlotte/Duquesne, some of the better teams in our league. Folks complained that we played too tough a schedule.

We ***** & moan about no-names coming to the Arena, but we fail to beat them (Weber State, ISU, Buffalo, ETSU). We pitch a hissy fit that we can't get BCS teams home-home on the schedule, but when we do (USC) we lay an egg when we have a legit shot at a road win, or fail to defend our floor (Seton Hall).

The pod system didn't kill us, our bad schedule didn't kill us, our good schedule didn't kill us. We killed ourselves by not rising to the challenge like a truly good basketball team should. You don't see X/Temple/Butler complaining about their schedule. Good teams win instead of worrying about looking good in the shower.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[UDDoug]

That's been the problem. UD has been above average, but not good.

[Sea Bass]

Richmond hasn't been all that since Anderson and Harper said goodbye. Just sayin'.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Buster Goode]

Hasn't it only been a year and a half since those guys left?

[st marys]

Originally Posted by UDDoug That's been the problem. UD has been above average, but not good.

Honestly I think this is one of the reasons the C7 should want us in a new league. The arena is always filled and looks good on TV and we are just good enough that losing to us isn't an RPI killer.

Now don't get me wrong I don't want us to be just average, I want to be great. If we get in the new league (and it proves better than the current A10) it may help us get over the hump. I would rather try then be content with where we are.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Hasn't it only been a year and a half since those guys left?

Richmond has 2 all league players iand over those two years they went 55-17.

Over the rest of the Mooney era they are 84-92.

Richmond was 16-16 last year is 11-6 this year and certainly doesn't look like an NCAA team at this point.

Mooney would be catching a lot of flack at UD, 2 NCAA appearances in 8 years.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Hasn't it only been a year and a half since those guys left?

Yeah. But that has been Richmond historically. A good years or so when they get a class with a Harper and Anderson. And down years when they do not. Richmond has been at the top and a bottom feeder. So has GW, UMass, URI, SLU, SJU and SBU. LaSalle, Charlotte and Duquesne have ridden up and down between bottom feeder and fourt or so.

The other four longer term members have been far more consistent performers. Xavier and Temple at the top, Fordham at the bottom and UD in the middle.

Personally, if I can't be Xavier or Temple I would rather be where UD has been. At least I can hope to get over the hump to get to their level. If I have some good years and some really bad years I really have little reason to believe I could ever sustain a top level.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Not missing it, just don't think it matters nearly as much as a fit with similar athletic interests. That's why the ACC "works". Even though there is public/private difference, the athletic departments have nearly identical interests despite their insitutional differences. I just think that's all that matters, and VCU is a better fit than Creighton because of geography.

Originally Posted by xubrew I tend to focus on the personnel, and only the personnel.

Originally Posted by SeaBass Richmond hasn't been all that since Anderson and Harper said goodbye. Just sayin'.

Prior to VCU's 2011 Final Four run (the year Richmond went to the Sweet Sixteen), VCU won one NCAA tournament game in the previous 25 years.

If Wright State suddenly scores a great athletic department, has a few good seasons, sneaks into the First Four, and then makes a run to the Final Four, should they be added to the A-10 or C-10(12)?

Why not? VCU and Wright State are both relatively large, urban-style public research universities. Obviously, we wouldn't be able to say geography was a problem, since Wright State is right down the road from UD.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Buster Goode]

Yeah, that's what it takes. See Butler. See George Mason too.

Don't discount the fact that VCU has one of the most young, dynamic coaches in the country. They have a rabid fan base (see the game last week?) and a suitable facility.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Don't discount the fact that VCU has one of the most young, dynamic coaches in the country. They have a rabid fan base (see the game last week?) and a suitable facility.

Yes, indeed. Shaka Smart is great. They have a rabid fan base because they are winning. It's not out of the question that Wright State could score a Shaka Smart-esque young coach. Then, if they made a run like VCU did, I'm sure their fan base would also become rabid, since they are located in the basketball crazy town of Dayton, Ohio. After all, Dayton is where VCU started their magical run. And, of course, the Nutter Center is more than a suitable facility, way better than many venues in the A-10 and probably even C-10(12).

[Title_BU]

Creighton is going to be in the new conference.

After Xavier and Butler, they are the closest thing to a lock remaining.

Who knows how the last two spots will end up.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Title_BU]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Yeah, that's what it takes. See Butler. See George Mason too.

Butler has been a Top 15 team six of the last seven years.

That is so rare that juxtaposing others is sort of absurd.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Prior to VCU's 2011 Final Four run (the year Richmond went to the Sweet Sixteen), VCU won one NCAA tournament game in the previous 25 years. If Wright State suddenly scores a great athletic department, has a few good seasons, sneaks into the First Four, and then makes a run to the Final Four, should they be added to the A-10 or C-10(12)? Why not? VCU and Wright State are both relatively large, urban-style public research universities. Obviously, we wouldn't be able to say geography was a problem, since Wright State is right down the road from UD.

Of course not. I've gone out of my way to state that they've done so much more than just go to a Final Four. George Mason went to a FF, and I'm not saying they should be considered. If Wright State scores a good athletic department and is able to keep it, then maybe. But, if the slot machine just happens to once in a blue moon come up all sevens with the right coach and the right set of players and the right match-ups in the NCAA Tournament, then not necessarily.

I think the difference is that VCU has sustained their success for ten years, and have been trending up throughout that entire time. They went from being a .500 or below program most of the time, to being routinely a top 80, 20+ win program over the last ten years. They've undergone multiple coaching changes and personnel changes in the athletic department, and have remained good. Not only that, but they've been incrimentally improving that entire time. They're program is now at a point to where it is expected that they will be an at-large caliber team. They've been trending up, and they're still trending.

You keep bringing up the FF run as if it's the only thing they've done. You seem to imply that everyone who likes them is being fooled by a fluke run. If anything, I think it is you that is being fooled by their FF run because you're under the impression that it's the only thing they've done. The FF team probably wasn't even VCU's best overall team in that ten year stretch. A program that has improved year after year after year the way VCU has is a solid program that can stand on its own. They have the things in place that they need to have in order to stay successful. I don't think Richmond does. To be fair to Richmond, I don't think there are many schools that do....at least not to the exten that VCU does.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by xubrew You keep bringing up the FF run as if it's the only thing they've done. You seem to imply that everyone who likes them is being fooled by a fluke run.

Not at all. In fact, I like VCU. I thought their Final Four run was the best thing since sliced bread.

But I deal in facts. Prior to that run, they won one NCAA tournament game in 25 years. I'm not saying it was a fluke. Many people were saying that VCU did not even belong in the NCAA tournament that year (I disagreed). Three years ago, most people would have thought you were crazy discussing adding VCU to the Big East.

The point is, if that's all it takes to be invited to the C-12, why not Wright State?

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Not at all. In fact, I like VCU. I thought their Final Four run was the best thing since sliced bread. But I deal in facts. Prior to that run, they won one NCAA tournament game in 25 years. I'm not saying it was a fluke. Many people were saying that VCU did not even belong in the NCAA tournament that year (I disagreed). Three years ago, most people would have thought you were crazy discussing adding VCU to the Big East. The point is, if that's all it takes to be invited to the C-12, why not Wright State?

Boy, you are obsessed with Wright State. If that's your team, fine, but stop asking our permission to include them in the discussion based on a mythical Final Four run that will likely never happen.

If {insert mid-major school name here} makes a final four run this year, they might be a great candidate for the C-12.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode If {insert mid-major school name here} makes a final four run this year, they might be a great candidate for the C-12.

Exactly my point. Thanks, Buster.

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Hasn't it only been a year and a half since those guys left?

About Anderson and Harper (Richmond studs).

Each competitive winning team needs at least 2 star players to be viable and win anything in college. They had these 2 and a nice role player in Geriot.

Remove the Stars two years later and it makes competing tough. Even Butler, the Ultimate Team, has Rotnei who got injured, Dunham, and perhaps another "name" to give them polish and leadership.

We have Dillard part of the year. A mix of Vee/Oliver. And incompletes all around the other positions. That's like 1 and a half "stars" and even those are debatable. HOpefully ARch can get our guys on the same page.

2-3 stars and 3-4 additional guys who know their roles. That's generally what it takes

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by xubrew Of course not. I've gone out of my way to state that they've done so much more than just go to a Final Four. George Mason went to a FF, and I'm not saying they should be considered. If Wright State scores a good athletic department and is able to keep it, then maybe. But, if the slot machine just happens to once in a blue moon come up all sevens with the right coach and the right set of players and the right match-ups in the NCAA Tournament, then not necessarily. I think the difference is that VCU has sustained their success for ten years, and have been trending up throughout that entire time. They went from being a .500 or below program most of the time, to being routinely a top 80, 20+ win program over the last ten years. They've undergone multiple coaching changes and personnel changes in the athletic department, and have remained good. Not only that, but they've been incrimentally improving that entire time. They're program is now at a point to where it is expected that they will be an at-large caliber team. They've been trending up, and they're still trending. You keep bringing up the FF run as if it's the only thing they've done. You seem to imply that everyone who likes them is being fooled by a fluke run. If anything, I think it is you that is being fooled by their FF run because you're under the impression that it's the only thing they've done. The FF team probably wasn't even VCU's best overall team in that ten year stretch. A program that has improved year after year after year the way VCU has is a solid program that can stand on its own. They have the things in place that they need to have in order to stay successful. I don't think Richmond does. To be fair to Richmond, I don't think there are many schools that do....at least not to the exten that VCU does.

Basically you are saying VCU has been able to do what UD has not been able to do.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Title_BU Creighton is going to be in the new conference. After Xavier and Butler, they are the closest thing to a lock remaining. Who knows how the last two spots will end up.

Source?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Not at all. In fact, I like VCU. I thought their Final Four run was the best thing since sliced bread. But I deal in facts. Prior to that run, they won one NCAA tournament game in 25 years. I'm not saying it was a fluke. Many people were saying that VCU did not even belong in the NCAA tournament that year (I disagreed). Three years ago, most people would have thought you were crazy discussing adding VCU to the Big East. The point is, if that's all it takes to be invited to the C-12, why not Wright State?

No, it's not all it takes. That's why Richmond isn't considered, or George Mason.

It's not all about how many NCAA games you won in the last 25 years. It's also about how you might do in the next 25 years in the new conference. And they aren't looking for flukey runs at places that show they don't really have the ability to at least be competitive in years runs don't occur.

Despite what you seem to think, VCU has done that over the past 10 years. They are always at a level that is at least close to an NCAA bid if they don't get one. It isn't just one or two years like Richmond. Richmond had two years in the NCAA, and a bunch of years when they struggled just to be .500. VCU is seldom near .500.

And that's what gets looked at with UD. They haven't gotten over the top to be in the NCAA every year, but they've been at least in the discussion most years.

VCU meets the criteria. Richmond doesn't. Creighton is close, but a long way off geographically. SLU hasn't consistently met it. Dayton usually. Xavier and Butler virtually all the time.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by CE80 Basically you are saying VCU has been able to do what UD has not been able to do.

Actually a little better, but not a ton. I don't know that VCU will be a perennial NCAA team. But they are pretty consistent at NCAA or NIT level. Something Richmond had not done.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug And that's what gets looked at with UD. They haven't gotten over the top to be in the NCAA every year, but they've been at least in the discussion most years.

Well, that, and the little fact that the "C" in C-7(12) stands for Catholic.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Well, that, and the little fact that the "C" in C-7(12) stands for Catholic.

Catholic is as much coincedence than plan. Obviously if VCU and Butler are in the discussion, but St Joes isn't that's not the main factor. Nor is Detroit in the discussion.

The discussion is centered around schools with similar athletic philosophies who have the resources to compete.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Forgive me UD90, this isn't directed at you. When the pod system was first announced, I remember fans fretting that we'd get stuck playing bottom feeders Fordham & SBU home-home which would annihilate our RPI. Well, we got paired with SLU & Charlotte/Duquesne, some of the better teams in our league. Folks complained that we played too tough a schedule. We ***** & moan about no-names coming to the Arena, but we fail to beat them (Weber State, ISU, Buffalo, ETSU). We pitch a hissy fit that we can't get BCS teams home-home on the schedule, but when we do (USC) we lay an egg when we have a legit shot at a road win, or fail to defend our floor (Seton Hall). The pod system didn't kill us, our bad schedule didn't kill us, our good schedule didn't kill us. We killed ourselves by not rising to the challenge like a truly good basketball team should. You don't see X/Temple/Butler complaining about their schedule. Good teams win instead of worrying about looking good in the shower.

Great locker room coach speech, but when one win is the difference between 3rd and 7th in the league, perhaps we should have been looking at a slightly different strategy when we requested our pods. But I do agree, they just need to get it done, overcome and grab that last win against a good team on the road.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Catholic is as much coincedence than plan. Obviously if VCU and Butler are in the discussion, but St Joes isn't that's not the main factor.

...but it's certainly a factor. It's quite a stretch to say that the Catholic 7 just randomly all fell together through coincidence, like oops, whoopsy daisy! How'd that happen?

It's probably also not a coincidence that at least 80-90% of the conference will likely be institutionally similar schools, and it's plausible that the entire conference will be comprised of private schools, mostly Catholic. St. Joe's is not in the conversation because of Villanova's trump card.

[jumpin' joe]

Do you realize there are only two Catholic colleges/universities that have Division I BCS Football?
Notre Dame (the worst #1 team in the history of college football) and...um...duh...Boston College (they haven't been really relevant since Doug Flutie played 30 years ago).

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe Do you realize there are only two Catholic colleges/universities that have Division I Football?

Are you asking me? Sure, I realize that.

I guess that's just a wild coincidence too?

Or is that why the Catholic basketball schools tend to stick together?

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer Great locker room coach speech, but when one win is the difference between 3rd and 7th in the league, perhaps we should have been looking at a slightly different strategy when we requested our pods. But I do agree, they just need to get it done, overcome and grab that last win against a good team on the road.

If we had Temple's POD we might have danced two more times. That's not an excuse, it's just a fact. Even the UD Administration realized that and was taking a look at it. But I also agree we just need to get better.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Are you asking me? Sure, I realize that.

It was more of a statement than it was a question to you. I could have worded it better.
I wish Dayton could play in an all-Catholic football conference. Georgetown, Duquesne, San Diego, and Villanova would be a good start. Holy Cross would be a nice addition. Fordham? Not so sure.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[UACFlyer]

Of course, the seven BE BB schools are being referred to as the C7....they all happen to be Catholic.

But, in my opinion, the religious affiliation (if any) of schools to be added is of no consequence whatsoever.

And, oh how I wish my memory was better. Shortly after UD joined the A10 I was speaking with TK. Just off the top of my head, with no thought at all, I mentioned how nice it would be if the Catholic BB schools formed a conference. Without a moment''s hesitation Ted explained why a conference comrprised of Catholic schools only would be undesirable....and he explained why.

It's the "why" that I don't remember. I think it had something to do with recruiting, but I'm not at all sure of that. What I am sure of is that TK exxplained to me the disadvantages of having only Catholic schools in a conference.

I'm sure his reasoning made sense at the time. If it still does some ~15 years later, the C7 may have a surprise or two waiting for us when they announce their target schools.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe Do you realize there are only two Catholic colleges/universities that have Division I Football? Notre Dame (the worst #1 team in the history of college football) and...um...duh...Boston College (they haven't been really relevant since Doug Flutie played 30 years ago).

Don't you mean BCS football? UD plays D1 football (FCS) don't they?

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Of course, the seven BE BB schools are being referred to as the C7....they all happen to be Catholic. But, in my opinion, the religious affiliation (if any) of schools to be added is of no consequence whatsoever. And, oh how I wish my memory was better. Shortly after UD joined the A10 I was speaking with TK. Just off the top of my head, with no thought at all, I mentioned how nice it would be if the Catholic BB schools formed a conference. Without a moment''s hesitation Ted explained why a conference comrprised of Catholic schools only would be undesirable....and he explained why. It's the "why" that I don't remember. I think it had something to do with recruiting, but I'm not at all sure of that. What I am sure of is that TK exxplained to me the disadvantages of having only Catholic schools in a conference. I'm sure his reasoning made sense at the time. If it still does some ~15 years later, the C7 may have a surprise or two waiting for us when they announce their target schools.

I think it has something to do with limbo and purgatory.

[oldfan]

Since much of the discussion about who should be in the new league is based upon which schools have been sucessful most recently. And since over time most of the schools are up and some are down ie UD in fifties and sixties up and in late 80s and 90s down. Perhaps the best formula for a new league is a floating league.

Ie the 12 best teams from the combined A-10 and C7 and maybe the MVC in the past five years based upon some objective criteria ie NCAA appearances, wins and losses, how deep in tourney the team progresses are part of the "premier Basketball conference" in that year and the rest play in the "so so conferences". The "Premier Conference" would change year by year based upon the changing rankings. The "Premier conference" would get the big bucks TV contract and the money would be split up only among the "Premier Conference" members in that year. Premier Conference teams would never play the teams in the So So conferences.

Get a bad coach or have a weak recruiting year and very shortly find yourself out of the premier league. Luck into a hot coach and find yourself quickly in the premier league. Who's to complain it is all objectively based.

Is it a stupid idea with no consistency, probably; but it seems to fit the ideal league concept presented by some on this board better than a single snapshot based on the formation of a league at the time it is formed. That is who are the best teams currently.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by CE80 Don't you mean BCS football? UD plays D1 football (FCS) don't they?

Yes...edited and corrected.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Are you asking me? Sure, I realize that. I guess that's just a wild coincidence too? Or is that why the Catholic basketball schools tend to stick together?

They stick together because they were together and they have similar athletic interest (no BCS football). It isn't because they are Catholic, and they aren't identifying potential conference members based on the religious affiliation of the school or whether or not they are private or public.

You might prefer they do, but they aren't.

Resources to compete and similar athletic interests (meaning primary focus is men's basketball, no BCS football, resources to compete).

I'm done.

[Buster Goode]

Jimmy Hoffa is buried somewhere in North Jersey.

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

It's extremely cold this time of year in the UP.

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

Al Roker sharted in the White House.

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

Juwan Staten is a coach's problem child.

Originally Posted by longtimefan Source?

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode Al Roker sharted in the White House.

I know I will get chastised for going off topic but, can you believe he actually admitted to that.

[cj]

[QUOTE=Buster Goode;291663]Jimmy Hoffa is buried somewhere in North Jersey.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...shallow-grave/

[longtimefan]

That's funny, Buster. I just get tired of people saying things as if they are true when they probably don't know any more than anybody else.

[xubrew]

This might come as a shock, but I'm actually with longtime on this one.

I understand why people would not want to cite their sources, but it is understandable why their credibility would be questioned if they didn't, especially if they don't have a history of being right with their prognostications.

That being said, if someone knows they're right in regards to something that has not yet happened, they really shouldn't care if anyone believes them or not. If you're right, then eventually you'll be proven right. Source or not.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by xubrew This might come as a shock, but I'm actually with longtime on this one. I understand why people would not want to cite their sources, but it is understandable why their credibility would be questioned if they didn't, especially if they don't have a history of being right with their prognostications. That being said, if someone knows they're right in regards to something that has not yet happened, they really shouldn't care if anyone believes them or not. If you're right, then eventually you'll be proven right. Source or not.

And as I said above, I can understand why someone wouldn't want to reveal a specific name, but they could let us know they are not just blowing smoke out of their a$$ by giving us some indication of where the information came from. I have posted a couple things over the years I heard from a source "close to the program." I would never say who it is, but by saying that I am indicating I am not just making something up or giving my opinion. When people say something and don't even state they have a source the obvious conclusion is that they are simply expressing their opinion. So someone should at least state that they have a source - if they do.

[cj]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon...g-ten/1836403/

Coach K's opinion on realignment in general.

[Medford]

I'm guessing he didn't care so much when the ACC was breaking apart the Big East when it added Miami, BC, VTech, Pitt & Syracuse. Now that the B10 has taken Maryland, and the constant rumors of FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Virginia and/or VTech moving on to the SEC, B10 and/or B12 "its a shame".

If he cared about Maryland and their fans, perhaps he should have insisted that Duke keep mayrland as one of its protect rivals. I read somewhere that Maryland's protected pod was BC, VTech & Pitt. Hardly what the maryland "ACC fan" grew up with. Finally, he says that Maryland was in the heart of ACC country. Sure that might be true "today" but just a few short years ago, they were at the northern edge of the ACC and if not for expansion north along the coast and into the heartland, Maryland would have never been at the heart of any conference.

[FlyingArrow]

The Richmond topic seems to have passed, but I spent several years in Virginia and my impression of Richmond was that Richmond = Dayton. Similar size and demographics. URichmond = UDayton. VCU = Wright State. Basketball results are radically different of course, and Richmond is a capital, but overall it seemed a lot like Dayton.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ClevelandFlyer05]

My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College.

It's a done deal. Word is that the AD at Grand Lakes University is ****ed.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College. It's a done deal and Dayton got hosed for those joker schools.

And who are your sources?

[flyers/avs]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College. It's a done deal. Word is that the AD at Grand Lakes University is ****ed.

So, in other words, our non-conference home schedule.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by longtimefan And who are your sources?

Gutter is my guess, that dude stumbles into everything

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College. It's a done deal. Word is that the AD at Grand Lakes University is ****ed.

Faber's on double secret probation. No way they get in.

Their frats are legendary, though.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College. It's a done deal. Word is that the AD at Grand Lakes University is ****ed.

What! No Ferris State? Unbelievable!

__________________
That rug really tied the room together . . .
Walter - The Big Lebowski

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 My sources are telling me that the five will be Port Chester University, Faber College, South Central Louisiana State University, Harrison University, and Coolidge College. It's a done deal. Word is that the AD at Grand Lakes University is ****ed.

The athletes at South Central Louisiana State University are very well hydrated...H2O!

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 The athletes at South Central Louisiana State University are very well hydrated...H2O!

they get the high quality stuff.

[bobber]

From the St. Louis media.

http://www.kmov.com/sports/The-Catho...187455451.html

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by bobber From the St. Louis media. http://www.kmov.com/sports/The-Catho...187455451.html

Interesting they SLU/St. Louis is rated higher than Dayton. Eveyone in Dayton knows about the flyers. In St. Louis SLU is only mentioned when the Cardinals, Blues, and Rams are not playing or relevant. Larger market but they still cannot fill their 10K arena even for rivaly games.

Dayton while a smaller market has more eyes watching the Flyers than St. Louis does watching the Bilikins.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Interesting they SLU/St. Louis is rated higher than Dayton. Everyone in Dayton knows about the flyers. In St. Louis SLU is only mentioned when the Cardinals, Blues, and Rams are not playing or relevant. Larger market but they still cannot fill their 10K arena even for rivalry games. Dayton while a smaller market has more eyes watching the Flyers than St. Louis does watching the Bilikins.

Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that said St Louis is rated higher than Dayton. I just read one St Louis guy's opinion when he said, Don't be surprised if Dayton isn't far behind. A Dayton writer could have said, Don't be surprised if St Louis isn't far behind Dayton.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Go-UD-Go]

Originally Posted by oldfan Since much of the discussion about who should be in the new league is based upon which schools have been sucessful most recently. And since over time most of the schools are up and some are down ie UD in fifties and sixties up and in late 80s and 90s down. Perhaps the best formula for a new league is a floating league. Ie the 12 best teams from the combined A-10 and C7 and maybe the MVC in the past five years based upon some objective criteria ie NCAA appearances, wins and losses, how deep in tourney the team progresses are part of the "premier Basketball conference" in that year and the rest play in the "so so conferences". The "Premier Conference" would change year by year based upon the changing rankings. The "Premier conference" would get the big bucks TV contract and the money would be split up only among the "Premier Conference" members in that year. Premier Conference teams would never play the teams in the So So conferences. Get a bad coach or have a weak recruiting year and very shortly find yourself out of the premier league. Luck into a hot coach and find yourself quickly in the premier league. Who's to complain it is all objectively based. Is it a stupid idea with no consistency, probably; but it seems to fit the ideal league concept presented by some on this board better than a single snapshot based on the formation of a league at the time it is formed. That is who are the best teams currently.

Actually, you just described team relegation from the European soccer leagues.