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  #1  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:51 PM
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I'm A Rose Colored Glass Guy...But Good Grief

Outside of KD, this entire team was awful. No defense, no rebounding, Cook was nothing more than selfish on offense...selfish...Crosby is a player totally out of control...Miller got blocked by the backboard..no sense in going on.. you saw it..
not pretty... on to the next one. Go Flyers, I need my rose colored glasses back on!
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:59 PM
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I need a large rose' filled glass
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I need a large rose' filled glass
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Merlot for me...
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:38 PM
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MD 20/20 pls...2 bottles.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:39 PM
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Let's stop whining!
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DGO67 View Post
Let's stop whining!
Whining? I thought we were drinking?
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DGO67 View Post
Let's stop whining!
not whining...simply the truth about a really really poorly played game
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBaby View Post
Whining? I thought we were drinking?

I think he meant to write "wining"...
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
not whining...simply the truth about a really really poorly played game
Charles Cooke should go down as the most overrated Flyer of all time. Yeah, he can score near 20 a game, but at the expense of everyone else contributing. Selfish today? He's the most selfish player in the AM era. When he's hurt, this team passes the ball and finds great shots like a well oiled machine, when he's there, they sputter. I can't wait until he's gone, they will go nowhere with him the focus of the offense.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:22 AM
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I disagree. Anyone that plays defense (most of the time) like Charles is anything but an unselfish player. Unselfish players play one-way. Cooke was a preseason All Defensive Team pick so its not just rose-colored glasses doing the talking. Its Cooke's peers.

Who else was going to score tonight? Cooke did what he had to do: try to jumpstart something. It didnt work -- which makes it no different than anything else anyone else (other than Kyle) did. All of his teammates sans Kyle were lawn ornaments. His teammates let him down as much as he let them down. At some point when nobody else can make a 2ft layup, your best player has to have the ball and try to do something with it. What was the alternative? Keep feeding it to our guards and bigs so they can miss more layups? Hoist more treys from Kendall? Let Crosby take over? The ball in Cooke's hands was the best option out of a list where none of them were ideal.

It didnt work. Were this game called by the Findlay refs, UMass wouldnt have had a single player left on the court by the 8 minute mark of the second half. Unfortunately, the Flyers did not adjust to the caged zoo animal octagon the zebras manufactured and UMass embraced it with open arms. Game. Set. Match. Have to credit UMass for getting after it, playing maul-ball, and outhustling us. They deserved to win.

UD wins two games w/o Cooke and all of a sudden the guy is a chump and entirely unnecessary. We didnt lose tonight because of Cooke. We lost because we got outplayed and outcoached from head to toe. Nobody gets a free pass.

And who's to say Cooke was 100% anyway. Hes been gimped with a bad wrist for almost 3 weeks and banged his tailbone up.

UMass had their moment. They will lose 5 of the next 7 and nobody will remember who they are in 3 weeks. Dayton will do what Dayton probably does and self-reflect, figure out how to rebound from it, and find a way to climb back into form. Not many teams get off the mat better than we do.

Sometimes you have to take some bad medicine to get healthy. Tonight was one of those nights.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
I disagree. Anyone that plays defense (most of the time) like Charles is anything but an unselfish player. Unselfish players play one-way. Cooke was a preseason All Defensive Team pick so its not just rose-colored glasses doing the talking. Its Cooke's peers.

Who else was going to score tonight? Cooke did what he had to do: try to jumpstart something. It didnt work -- which makes it no different than anything else anyone else (other than Kyle) did. All of his teammates sans Kyle were lawn ornaments. His teammates let him down as much as he let them down. At some point when nobody else can make a 2ft layup, your best player has to have the ball and try to do something with it. What was the alternative? Keep feeding it to our guards and bigs so they can miss more layups? Hoist more treys from Kendall? Let Crosby take over? The ball in Cooke's hands was the best option out of a list where none of them were ideal.

It didnt work. Were this game called by the Findlay refs, UMass wouldnt have had a single player left on the court by the 8 minute mark of the second half. Unfortunately, the Flyers did not adjust to the caged zoo animal octagon the zebras manufactured and UMass embraced it with open arms. Game. Set. Match. Have to credit UMass for getting after it, playing maul-ball, and outhustling us. They deserved to win.

UD wins two games w/o Cooke and all of a sudden the guy is a chump and entirely unnecessary. We didnt lose tonight because of Cooke. We lost because we got outplayed and outcoached from head to toe. Nobody gets a free pass.

And who's to say Cooke was 100% anyway. Hes been gimped with a bad wrist for almost 3 weeks and banged his tailbone up.

UMass had their moment. They will lose 5 of the next 7 and nobody will remember who they are in 3 weeks. Dayton will do what Dayton probably does and self-reflect, figure out how to rebound from it, and find a way to climb back into form. Not many teams get off the mat better than we do.

Sometimes you have to take some bad medicine to get healthy. Tonight was one of those nights.
I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, when Cooke is on offense, he slows down the crisp passing by taking time to decide if he's going to drive, shoot or pass. The rest of the players suffer due to it. We rarely have had this problem where everyone looks bad on offense, when Charles Cooke isn't playing. Not in 2013-2014, not in 2014-2015 and not in games when he's been hurt. Yes, the whole offense looked awful, but that's because of Charles Cooke's me first attitude.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:01 AM
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Clunker

So it had trap all over it and the boys and Archie drove right into it. Hell Baylor gets to No 1 and has 29 turnovers and gets blown out on the road the next day. So it happens. Our issue is the margin for error is now ZERO for an at large. I believe we can lose at Rhody and VCU and if we get to finals get a At large. I have always thought and still do with the injuries that we have to win in Pitt. Its been 14 years since we have won a Conference Championship in a tourney. Josh will be back and we need him to be able to give us 20 a game and some inside presence. 75% of Josh is a better value than Sam and at Times X. Archie will get Cooke back in the flow and we are a pretty darn good defensive team. Think about we had 14 steals and 6 blocks and got our asses kicked. So Sat is very important, get back on track and set up a great Home game with Richmond who should be undefeated in the conference when they come. Changes.... shorten the rotation, Sam out and Crosby only a min before a Timeout to give Scoochie a rest. Archie in the 4 losses teams have shut down our half court offense. I am begging you to get aggressive and trap and press early to get the O going. we are really good at it. Pitt is a great city start making plans for the A Ten we need to get the 4 Seniors to the NCAA!
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:03 AM
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I look at it this way .... they started off as if they weren't ready to play. Again!

There is something wrong with the team psyche (sp?) and it shows itself way too many times in this season. Archie talks about he didn't get the guys ready but where are their heads to begin with?

They are not god's gift to mankind and they sure as hell aren't the best team in college BB.

So why are they not ready to play at the start of a game?

There is definitely something wrong. It shows up at inappropriate times. Is is due to the almost mystical link with the team just now getting votes (abet only a couple) that they have to start losing a game or two? Is it related to a player (or two)? I don't know but it is a very real concern and it doesn't appear that Archie has yet to figure how to correct it ... and the players sure as hell haven't either!

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Old 01-12-2017, 08:09 AM
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Cooke is 3rd on the team in assists despite missing 3 games.

Last night, he did try to go one one into the teeth of the defense too much. Pollard tried to do the same thing at the beginning of the Rhode Island game. Pollard took threes in each of the last two games early in the shot clock. So did Scoochie

The seniors were trying to jump start the team last night and even on Friday.

To me, it is an issue of trying to do too much instead of selfish. All three have a bit guilty at times. Last night was Cooke at his worst. Every player has a night where they try to do too much.

Cooke and Pollard are both slashers on offense. The other players don't create offense at times. That creates an imbalance and defenses look for it. If you notice, the offense struggles the most when bigs clog the middle. Not a coincidence.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Cooke is 3rd on the team in assists despite missing 3 games.

Last night, he did try to go one one into the teeth of the defense too much. Pollard tried to do the same thing at the beginning of the Rhode Island game. Pollard took threes in each of the last two games early in the shot clock. So did Scoochie

The seniors were trying to jump start the team last night and even on Friday.

To me, it is an issue of trying to do too much instead of selfish. All three have a bit guilty at times. Last night was Cooke at his worst. Every player has a night where they try to do too much.

Cooke and Pollard are both slashers on offense. The other players don't create offense at times. That creates an imbalance and defenses look for it. If you notice, the offense struggles the most when bigs clog the middle. Not a coincidence.
Actually, unlike in other losses and some games they've won, they came out better to start the game....I read alot of Archie's comments this week and was pretty shocked because he usually is close to the vest and fills the air with plenty of coach-speak but he was praising his guys for how well they're practicing and maturing...Looks like he should have let this play out a little longer with a couple more road games before he sung their praises...
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
So it had trap all over it and the boys and Archie drove right into it. Hell Baylor gets to No 1 and has 29 turnovers and gets blown out on the road the next day. So it happens. Our issue is the margin for error is now ZERO for an at large. I believe we can lose at Rhody and VCU and if we get to finals get a At large. I have always thought and still do with the injuries that we have to win in Pitt. Its been 14 years since we have won a Conference Championship in a tourney. Josh will be back and we need him to be able to give us 20 a game and some inside presence. 75% of Josh is a better value than Sam and at Times X. Archie will get Cooke back in the flow and we are a pretty darn good defensive team. Think about we had 14 steals and 6 blocks and got our asses kicked. So Sat is very important, get back on track and set up a great Home game with Richmond who should be undefeated in the conference when they come. Changes.... shorten the rotation, Sam out and Crosby only a min before a Timeout to give Scoochie a rest. Archie in the 4 losses teams have shut down our half court offense. I am begging you to get aggressive and trap and press early to get the O going. we are really good at it. Pitt is a great city start making plans for the A Ten we need to get the 4 Seniors to the NCAA!
I would not call last night a trap. First off, UD is not that good of a team at this juncture. Signs of getting better prior to last night? Absolutely but far from a polished team. Secondly, they certainly don't have a rival game or even an adequate opponent coming up on saturday so ZERO reason to even look ahead..

Not only the stats you mentioned but Mass also shot under 50% from the charity stripe AND had 17 TO's and still kicked UD's arse..
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:26 AM
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Pressure...

Archie, at times has to take the risk and jump start the offense by taking more chances on D and doing it earlier... Its just not in his DNA and he doesn't coach it so he is not confident about the trapping etc and doing it early. last nite if Cooke and X don't fumble the ball out of bounds we cut that lead to 5!!! Our guys are really good with that trap. Just use it to get us going. UMass only had one guy who could really handle the ball. Hell trap and if they break it Foul the Big kid, let him miss foul shots and he would have. Oh well on to Sat!!
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Charles Cooke should go down as the most overrated Flyer of all time. Yeah, he can score near 20 a game, but at the expense of everyone else contributing. Selfish today? He's the most selfish player in the AM era. When he's hurt, this team passes the ball and finds great shots like a well oiled machine, when he's there, they sputter. I can't wait until he's gone, they will go nowhere with him the focus of the offense.
LMAO. You've said some really stupid stuff but my god.....You need to heed to the 24 hour rule and let the emotions subside but not sure that even helps you...The guy has missed 3 games and STILL the wrist is not 100%.....
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
last nite if Cooke and X don't fumble the ball out of bounds we cut that lead to 5!!! Our guys are really good with that trap. Just use it to get us going. UMass only had one guy who could really handle the ball. Hell trap and if they break it Foul the Big kid, let him miss foul shots and he would have. Oh well on to Sat!!
I think I counted 5, 6, or 7 turnovers by UMass, steals by UD, or instances where UMass was fouled and missed at least 1 ft. I think we were down by 10 with about 5 minutes left when this all started, if we convert a 2 pointer at the other end of each of those, then we would have taken the lead.

So, we had several chances down the stretch to cut into the lead, but we just couldn't convert enough of those.

That was a real wild final 5 minutes. It has been a good while since I have seen that much craziness at the end of a game.

Last edited by ud2; 01-12-2017 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:14 AM
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The tough part is that UMass did us in with one sophomore and three freshmen. Meanwhile our freshmen and sophomores gave us 7 points and 5 turnovers. Not good for now or the future.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, when Cooke is on offense, he slows down the crisp passing by taking time to decide if he's going to drive, shoot or pass. The rest of the players suffer due to it. We rarely have had this problem where everyone looks bad on offense, when Charles Cooke isn't playing. Not in 2013-2014, not in 2014-2015 and not in games when he's been hurt. Yes, the whole offense looked awful, but that's because of Charles Cooke's me first attitude.
Of course, on several occasions in the first half, and when the game was tight in the second half, there was lots of quick ball movement and nobody would take a freaking shot, leaving a wild drive to the hoop as the only option.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:42 PM
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This was landmine #1. You can bet there will be others during the next two months. Ask Davidson who lost at home last night to Fordham.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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If Dayton has merely a bad game, they still win last night. They had to have an incredibly terrible, please give us a courteous flush, stinkaroo to lose to a UMass team that was begging - begging them to take the W off their hands. These Flyers are like my kids - they can't ever seem to do things the easy way.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:42 PM
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Easy solution...rest and rehab CC until he is healthy.

Immediately Pull J C when he decides to be a bonehead.

Substitute anybody at PG who can dribble. I'd prefer to see RM than JC. He takes the fun out of the game.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:56 PM
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You have to start wondering what exactly AM (and the Maryland coaches among others) saw in Crosby in HS that made him so sought after. It couldn't have been his shooting or ball handling.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:20 PM
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Defense was very good versus UMass. Per kenpom, Dayton actually lowered its points it gives up per possession which is adjusted by opponent. Dayton now has the #16 defense in the country and the lowest points per possession given up in Archie's 6 years. It is down to .922 points per possession. Offense was bad and this will happen from time-to-time, too many turnovers and bad shooting.

But Dayton would lose this game 25% of the time as road games are tough. Even though Umass is only #117 in kenpom, equivalent of playing #67 at UD Arena (think Vandy who is #63, we could lose to them at UD Arena).

Dayton still is playing very good basketball, but had a bad offensive game. It happens. Let's not panic.

In Archie I trust!
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Defense was very good versus UMass.

Free throw defense was good, too. We held them to 47.8% from the line.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I said this last year and I'll say it again this year, when Cooke is on offense, he slows down the crisp passing by taking time to decide if he's going to drive, shoot or pass. The rest of the players suffer due to it. We rarely have had this problem where everyone looks bad on offense, when Charles Cooke isn't playing. Not in 2013-2014, not in 2014-2015 and not in games when he's been hurt. Yes, the whole offense looked awful, but that's because of Charles Cooke's me first attitude.
We all see what you speak of. But the answer, if we are to do anything in the post season, is that the efficient offense and defense of a healthy Charles Cooke comes back. When healthy, he is a game changer on offense and defense. If we were so fortunate to earn a bid, we are one and done without a 100% Charles Cooke. We could say that about any of the other Seniors as well. As an 11 seed, we don't match up with any likely opponent without CC.

It's not so bad that we lost an A10 road game to a 10-5 UMass team, it's that we collectively looked so poor doing it. But that's the stuff upsets are made of.

Last edited by San Diego Flyer; 01-13-2017 at 09:52 AM..
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