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  #201  
Old 12-31-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Here's the story, altho most here won't read it simply because it's from The Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.c80aa4840bb2

So perhaps USA Today might be acceptable: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/n...grid/96022986/

And yes, WaPo got the headline wrong originally. As The Washigton Examiner points out, the Russkies did not penetrate the grid, but the malware was found on a laptop at the VT utility, which is still scary sh*t:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wa...rticle/2610660

Maybe now you knuckleheads will realize the Russian hack is real, more than just some stupid emails and extremely dangerous to our nation's security. This is not a political issue; it's a matter of grave national import.

And yet Trump and his BFF Pootie will continue to say there is nothing to see here...and you schmucks will believe him.

First of all, I believe the original headline was wrong on purpose. Many other of these so called new organizations saw the wrong headline and ran with it, long before any corrections were made.

As for the laptop itself, what was this laptop used for? Obviously whoever had the lap top was not high enough up the food chain to be connected. How do we know it wasn't an old Gateway 486 connected to a dial up connection that the janitor used to order Dominos pizza online and watch internet porn?

Why all the hate toward your fellow UDpride schmucks and knuckleheads?
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  #202  
Old 12-31-2016, 07:29 PM
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This dramatic story puts the news media in a jackpot. Absent independent verification, reporters will have to rely upon the secret assessments of intelligence agencies to cover the story at all.
Many reporters I know are quietly freaking out about having to go through that again. We all remember the WMD fiasco.
"It's déjà vu all over again" is how one friend put it.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...stinks-w458439
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  #203  
Old 12-31-2016, 09:49 PM
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I think Eric "Otter" Stratton is advising the Obama Administration regarding how to respond to the Russian hack.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4DZeBleLs
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  #204  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:26 PM
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http://nypost.com/2017/01/01/washing...rmont-utility/

The Washington Post has retracted its story about Russian hackers penetrating the nation’s electricity grid with a virus found in a Burlington, Vt., electric company laptop.

“Authorities say there is no indication of that so far [that Russians had penetrated the US electric grid],” according to an editor’s note attached to a corrected version of the story on the paper’s Web site.

Any comment Swampy?
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  #205  
Old 01-02-2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
http://nypost.com/2017/01/01/washing...rmont-utility/

The Washington Post has retracted its story about Russian hackers penetrating the nation’s electricity grid with a virus found in a Burlington, Vt., electric company laptop.

“Authorities say there is no indication of that so far [that Russians had penetrated the US electric grid],” according to an editor’s note attached to a corrected version of the story on the paper’s Web site.

Any comment Swampy?
Not speaking for Swamp but maybe it would be something to try and bring us back together like this. Obviously Swamp is interested in bridging the gap and would never say anything to hurt our feelings. A true reporter

Maybe now you ""knuckleheads"" will realize the Russian hack is real, more than just some stupid emails and extremely dangerous to our nation's security. This is not a political issue; it's a matter of grave national import.

And yet Trump and his BFF Pootie will continue to say there is nothing to see here...and you ""schmucks"" will believe him.

That sounds pretty conciliatory doesn't it Swamp. Just trying to reason with your UD friends. God, if we could only be as smart as you.
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  #206  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
http://nypost.com/2017/01/01/washing...rmont-utility/

The Washington Post has retracted its story about Russian hackers penetrating the nation’s electricity grid with a virus found in a Burlington, Vt., electric company laptop.

“Authorities say there is no indication of that so far [that Russians had penetrated the US electric grid],” according to an editor’s note attached to a corrected version of the story on the paper’s Web site.

Any comment Swampy?
Considering the fact that I covered the headline error in my original post, no.
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Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 01-02-2017 at 08:00 AM..
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  #207  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Considering the fact that I covered the headline error in my original post, no.
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So it's not Fake news? ... it's a Headline error?

What's next from the mainstreamers....the dreaded Headline malfunction?

#getoutofmommysbasment
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  #208  
Old 01-02-2017, 10:53 AM
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I watch a bunch of media and read even more. I am still amazed that there has been no proof that has come out. No direct statements by our agencies. Nothing but media leaks and Obama assertions. How can anyone believe what and who without some facts or reliable sources? If Obama wants to stop Trump's doubt and our doubt, release some facts, and let your agencies speak directly.

The fact that Obama will not release facts, makes me think he is spinning the story. If nineteen agencies agree, release that document.
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  #209  
Old 01-02-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I watch a bunch of media and read even more. I am still amazed that there has been no proof that has come out. No direct statements by our agencies. Nothing but media leaks and Obama assertions. How can anyone believe what and who without some facts or reliable sources? If Obama wants to stop Trump's doubt and our doubt, release some facts, and let your agencies speak directly.

The fact that Obama will not release facts, makes me think he is spinning the story. If nineteen agencies agree, release that document.
The Democrats have proven themselves to be so trustworthy. How can anyone doubt their proclamations?
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  #210  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:45 PM
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The Obama administration insists that Russia’s government was behind the penetration of the Democratic National Committee’s email system (even though it admits that the intrusion was not carried out by the government itself). The administration released a report that purportedly provided evidence in support of this claim, but even an amateur like me could see that the report was surprisingly weak.

Then the experts started to weigh in. Their verdict was that the operation termed “Grizzly Steppe” by the Obama administration could possibly have been carried out by Putin’s regime, but the administration’s report contained no evidence at all that pointed toward Russia, let alone the Russian government.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive...onexistent.php
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  #211  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:02 PM
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C'mon, fellas. What's not to believe? Don't let past Democrat errrrr, misquotes, ahhh, misunderstandings and...errr misinterpreted "nuances" such as: "it depends on what your definition of "is" is:, or " I was told by an incredibly reliable source that Romney has not paid taxes in ten years"; or "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"; or "a movie caused the attack on the compound in Benghazi"; or "I recall landing in Bosnia under sniper fire", etc., etc, etc, ad nuaseum, sway your opinion. I'm sure the Dems are telling nothing but the truth, the whole truth as they'd like it to be. Because, after all, it simply depends on what your definition of "truth" is! So, of course it's the dastardly Russkies...would BHO "nuance" you?
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  #212  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
And yes, WaPo got the headline wrong originally. As The Washigton Examiner points out, the Russkies did not penetrate the grid, but the malware was found on a laptop at the VT utility, which is still scary sh*t
You mean the same sourcecode/malware that is publicly available?

http://arstechnica.com/security/2016...ly-to-rage-on/
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  #213  
Old 01-04-2017, 08:37 AM
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ta-emails.html

So Podesta's password was "password" and he gave it out through a phishing email. That is unbelievable.

"We published several ... emails which show Podesta responding to a phishing email," Assange said during the first part of the interview, which aired on "Hannity" Tuesday night. "Podesta gave out that his password was the word ‘password’. His own staff said this email that you’ve received, this is totally legitimate. So, this is something ... a 14-year-old kid could have hacked Podesta that way."
Assange also claimed that Clinton herself made "almost no attempt" to keep her private emails safe from potentially hostile states during her tenure as secretary of state.
"Now, was she trying to keep them secure from Republicans? Probably," Assange said. "But in terms of [nation-] states, almost no attempt."
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  #214  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:22 AM
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Remember Swampy. No news is good news
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  #215  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:19 AM
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We all wonder how Podesta could be so stupid that he could not get Clinton elected with $110 billion war chest and all that momentum. The you see what his password was. How do people like this put there pants on? Wonder if he changed his password to 1234?
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  #216  
Old 01-04-2017, 03:09 PM
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Its interesting that when Visa or Yahoo accounts get hacked to the tune of 10s of millions of users and vital personal and financial information, nobody runs to the defense of Visa or Yahoo and says "Ohh that's terrible! We need to find the Ukranian schoolboy in his mother's basement and get justice for this! I feel so bad for Visa. They did nothing wrong. Let's rally around them and let them know we're so sorry they were picked on like this."

Just the opposite. We say things like "How could Visa and Yahoo be so lackadaisical and sloppy with such important personal information? How could this happen? Why weren't their servers more secure? They are going to pay for this! They are gonna get a lawsuit and forced to pay millions in fines! What reckless behavior! We want Congressional hearings and people need to go to prison!!"

So why is it any different when Hillary's homebrew servers or the DNC's own servers get supposedly hacked.

Only in politics do servers get hacked and its no longer the fault of the people that own and run the servers. In any other world, your data = your responsibility to be unhackable.
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  #217  
Old 01-04-2017, 05:38 PM
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Can anyone explain if, and how, one can know for sure who hacked? If someone breaks into a bank and there is video, we know for sure, assuming a clear image, who did it. With no video, and some detective saying that in his experience it was so and so, we only have a reasonable guess. So how is it with hacking?

I talked to a government hacking expert last night and asked the same question, and never got a clear answer that said that yes we know with certainty who hacks a computer.

Any tech guys on here that know or can find out?
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  #218  
Old 01-04-2017, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Can anyone explain if, and how, one can know for sure who hacked? If someone breaks into a bank and there is video, we know for sure, assuming a clear image, who did it. With no video, and some detective saying that in his experience it was so and so, we only have a reasonable guess. So how is it with hacking?

I talked to a government hacking expert last night and asked the same question, and never got a clear answer that said that yes we know with certainty who hacks a computer.

Any tech guys on here that know or can find out?
We know the Russians did it because sWimpy R said so.
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  #219  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:54 PM
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And the President-elect's proof that the Russians didn't do it?

That noted scumbag and fellow Russian synchopant Julian F'ing Assange.

Give me a break.
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  #220  
Old 01-04-2017, 10:25 PM
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Struck a nerve. Dropping the F-bomb again.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:56 PM
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Assange has contradicted himself. He's repeatedly said Wikileaks' architecture is designed so that sources are always anonymous and submitted information is untrackable to the source to both protect Wikileaks plausible deniability as only the publisher of leaks and not the leaking agent itself, but also to protect the sources so they are not threatened and mysteriously have pianos fall on their heads.

But then Assange says he knows for certain the Russians did not instigate the hacking.

So if you don't know who provides the leaks to you, how can you know who is NOT providing the leaks to you? There are a couple ways this could be done through certain protocols and procedures that do not contradict one another, but Assange has failed to spell them out to explain the discrepancy, which leads me to believe they don't exist.

My speculation is: Assange is stretching the truth when he says Wikileaks never knows who provides the leaks. All data is trackable even if you have to triangulate a conclusion. Russia is likely not culpable in any major way but Assange only knows this because of the aforementioned which it denies. As likely as Russia is at being the hack, I put equal probability on a mole/Bernie insider. The easiest way to information is being on the inside. Loose lips sink ships and Hillary rubbed Bernie's camp in a very bad way especially after colluding with the media to cheat in the debates.

Lets remind ourselves everybody is hacking everybody. We are hacking Russian intelligence on a daily basis. Even at the top political level. If you think we're hacking Angela Merkel but not Vlady, you are living on the banks of Denial River. Let us also remind ourselves that Hillary Clinton herself made it publicly clear in leaked audio tapes that she wanted to interfere in Palestine elections to the point of ensuring a specific candidate more friendly to the USA would eventually win if a referendum indeed occurred.

What's the difference if we're pulling the strings or Russia is pulling ours? If you want to play in the octagon of cyber intelligence and diplomacy, you have to resign yourself to the fact that you may end up on the losing end of the chess game once in a while. That's not the opposition's fault -- its yours. Its not everyone else's job to not hack you; it's your job to be unhackable. There are bad actors everywhere. Angela Merkel thought we were a bad actor when the NSA hacked her cell phone.

Sometimes you get the bear. Sometimes the bear gets you.

But lets even assume Russia helped Trump win. Trump is the most liberal GOP candidate in probably 50 years. He's going to be the first President-Elect to ever put his hand on the good book and take office as a supporter of gay marriage. He wants to basically give us Recovery and Reinvestment Act 2.0. He wants to keep provisions of Obamacare. He wants to legislate from the oval office just like BHO. The list is extensive. It's not like Russia is installing Milton Friedman.
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  #222  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:27 AM
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In yet another sign that the ‘Russia hacked the election’ narrative is phony, Buzzfeed is reporting that the FBI never even bothered to ask for the DNC server for forensic analysis.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...f_hacking.html
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  #223  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:30 AM
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Trump is an outsider and that's why he is hated. He can call the Senate minority leader "a clown" and most can find it funny because they aren't on the inside either.

The Congress has been set up (Democrats and Republican) to be made fun of by the President. It will be interesting to watch.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:39 AM
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Unbelievable! Just one more smoking gun that the whole case against Russia is built on, at best, circumstantial evidence, and at worst, political bias and hate of Russia.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I mean if California isn't in debt up to their eyeballs, please correct me.
I thought I saw a post on here yesterday? by somebody about California having a budget surplus, but I can not find it now.

Anyway, the budget surplus does not seem to tell the whole story as California leads the nation in state debt.

Ohio, surprisingly IMO, has the 5th most state debt....Texas, also a surprise, is #3.



http://www.capitolbeatok.com/reports...ll-have-to-pay


California leads the pack with $778 billion in state debt, mostly as a result of the state's $584 billion unfunded public pension liability. New York ($388 billion), Texas ($341 billion), Illinois ($321 billion), and Ohio ($321 billion) round out the top 5 states with the largest amounts of state debt.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I thought I saw a post on here yesterday? by somebody about California having a budget surplus, but I can not find it now.
http://www.scpr.org/news/2016/11/17/...on-budget-sur/
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I thought I saw a post on here yesterday? by somebody about California having a budget surplus, but I can not find it now.

Anyway, the budget surplus does not seem to tell the whole story as California leads the nation in state debt.

Ohio, surprisingly IMO, has the 5th most state debt....Texas, also a surprise, is #3.



http://www.capitolbeatok.com/reports...ll-have-to-pay


California leads the pack with $778 billion in state debt, mostly as a result of the state's $584 billion unfunded public pension liability. New York ($388 billion), Texas ($341 billion), Illinois ($321 billion), and Ohio ($321 billion) round out the top 5 states with the largest amounts of state debt.
Don't care how anyone churches it up...they are #1.
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  #228  
Old 01-05-2017, 09:36 PM
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It's Thursday. Trump said over the weekend that "by Tuesday or Wednesday" he would release the 'secret' information he had on the Russian hacks.

What happened!
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  #229  
Old 01-05-2017, 09:55 PM
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Someone in the U.S. intelligence community–if it has been reported exactly who, I haven’t seen it–has prepared a 50-page report on, among other things, alleged Russian efforts to “meddle” with the 2016 presidential election. That report was delivered to President Obama today, and will go to Donald Trump tomorrow. Naturally, it took only a matter of hours for the Washington Post to be briefed on the report’s contents.

One point, before getting to the Post’s story. It isn’t hard to see what is going on here: Democrats in the intelligence agencies prepared a report for President Obama. The report was immediately leaked by Democrats in the Obama administration (or else Democrats in the intelligence agencies) to Democrats at the Washington Post, so they could slant the story to influence those who will never actually see the report. The purpose of this charade is not to inform President Obama (still less, President-Elect Trump). It is, rather, to advance Democratic Party narratives and undermine the legitimacy of the Trump administration.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive...ke-a-sieve.php
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  #230  
Old 01-05-2017, 10:06 PM
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Meanwhile back to the facts. US intelligence has identified the go-between who gave the DNC emails to Wikileaks:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...reports-2017-1
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  #231  
Old 01-05-2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Meanwhile back to the facts. US intelligence has identified the go-between who gave the DNC emails to Wikileaks:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...reports-2017-1

Not sure why I even read this article that is 37 hours old and tells us nothing we have not known for quite sometime, and not sure why I am even asking the question, but could you please tell us where exactly in the article you referenced it tells us "US intelligence has identfied the go between who gave the DNC emails to Wikileaks" Or better yet, who did they identify?
Do you even read what you post or just put random links on here and make up your own assumption of what you believe it might happen to say?
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  #232  
Old 01-06-2017, 08:21 AM
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It says identified not released their identity.
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  #233  
Old 01-06-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
It says identified not released their identity.
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Well, are they ever going to identify the person/entity then? There has been persistent speculation throughout this incident that the leak came from inside the DNC.

Just seems unfair to assume that it is the Russians without proof. Imagine if Clinton had won, and Trump was making all these accusations, the MSM would be having a major fit.
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  #234  
Old 01-06-2017, 08:50 AM
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So why are we going through all this crap. We all know that Hillary lost the election because she is not a likable person and does not give a **** about the American people that cannot help her politically of financially. She also does not much care about people that will call her out on her lies to manipulate.

The democrats have tried every method they know of to make sweet milk out of this sour puss. Meanwhile Obama has discovered that he did not possess the Charisma he thought he once had and most people hated his policies.

Although they know the emails in the WikiLeaks are true there is a good chance the Russians have something to do with it. This is outrageous although it is standard Government activity since before WW1. Does anybody believe we do not have spies in Russia now?

Light clicks off. I am going to blame Russia for Hillary's defeat and America's democracy. Hell. I will start a war. I am out of here in a couple of weeks. I have nothing to lose. Trump will have to deal with it. He is in a no win situation. If he stands down, he is cowering to Putin his buddy. If it goes to war, there is no way they are going into that terrible terrain and win a victory. My party looks good either way. We win again in 2000. The lives that are lost. Inconsequential to Obama. He is not taking the flack.

If he really cared about America he knows we have the scientist and technology to win a cyber security war. If we were hacked by Russia the only reason was because we let a SOS go rogue and keep her classified information on a unsecured server rather than a Government required secured classified server. Of course we all know the reason that happened.

And there is also the butt face campaign leader that doesn't want to tax himself and uses the word password for an actual password.

The House cannot let Obama's bruised EGO start a war that will end lives for political and revenge reason

All we need to do is upgrade our cyber security. We have to do that any way.
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  #235  
Old 01-06-2017, 09:03 AM
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http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattves...ed-us-n2267233

A member of the MSM asking a legitimate question about the Chinese hacking!? What has the MSM come to?
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  #236  
Old 01-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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This stuff is all political showboating and is so politically biased it is impossible to come to any conclusion, When politicians get involved, it becomes a mess and nothing gets solved. Trump has really great intentions, but he needs to quiet down and quit reacting to Obama, and his peons, and the trouble making media.

The real people being hurt are the the mid and low level workers in the intelligence agencies, who are not playing politics like their bosses and put their sweat and lives on the line. They have constantly been short changed by Obama and now by Trump, and they are ticked.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:38 AM
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Once, US intelligence was not a political football. Once, earth science was not a political football. Those days are past.
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Old 01-08-2017, 08:16 AM
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Trump tweet: "Only stupid people think that having warm relations with Russia is a bad thing."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/07/politi...&ICID=ref_fark

Meanwhile it's Sunday and Trump said last week he would release the secret info he had on the Russian hacks Tuesday or Wednesday.

So where is it
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Trump tweet: "Only stupid people think that having warm relations with Russia is a bad thing."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/07/politi...&ICID=ref_fark

Meanwhile it's Sunday and Trump said last week he would release the secret info he had on the Russian hacks Tuesday or Wednesday.

So where is it
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Whatever Swampy just tried to say I am in total agreement. Obviously we need to try to pick a war with Russia because we had a rogue SOS that resisted keeping her classified emails on a government provided classified email server setup to prevent these possible hacks. Hmmm, wonder why And there is also her campaign manager that provided an unpenetrable wall of defense with his secure information.

Worsening relations with Russia is the obvious solution to the Administrations incompetency. Maybe Swampy and I can go together to ship off our grandchildren to fight a war created because our 2 presidents are in a ****ing match and the current one has his feelings hurt. Obviously Hillary would have won if the truth were not made available to the public. Did you know that almost every democrat I spoke with has not read any of the wikileak emails but remain convinced they were one of the main reasons Hillary lost? How about you Swampy?

Wait, aren't wars expensive? I wonder how much it would actually cost to really beef up out cyber security. We did plan on that any how, right? The Countries will continue to spy on each other as they always have. We can try to talk some common sense to the leaders responsible for this data.

Maybe Swampy and I will not need to get that awful knock on our door some day
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  #240  
Old 01-08-2017, 01:08 PM
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The only person to deny that the leaks were true so far was Donna Brazille, who said that she was being persecuted (as a Christian woman) by the line of questioning posed by Megyn Kelly. Shortly after her denials, more leaks surfaced showing further collusion between her and the Clinton campaign. Since then, she crawled into a hole.

I bring this up, because there are no denials from the Democratic side as to the authenticity of the leaks. They are simply upset that they were shared with the public, revealing their corruption and double-talk to the American voter.

If an investigative journalist had come across this information, would it be considered "interference in the election" to release it? Would it be "interference in the election" to keep it from the eyes of the public to favor Clinton?

To me, interference in the election is something very different than the truth being released to voters.

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  #241  
Old 01-08-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Can anyone explain if, and how, one can know for sure who hacked? If someone breaks into a bank and there is video, we know for sure, assuming a clear image, who did it. With no video, and some detective saying that in his experience it was so and so, we only have a reasonable guess. So how is it with hacking?

I talked to a government hacking expert last night and asked the same question, and never got a clear answer that said that yes we know with certainty who hacks a computer.

Any tech guys on here that know or can find out?
I ask again??
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:30 PM
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Thanks to Barak Obama’s most recent expression of his low character and a foreign policy weirdly akin to fantasy-baseball gone bad, thirty-five U.S.-resident Russian diplomats and their families targeted for rapid deportation feared a frantic search in the holiday crunch for open seats on flights to Moscow.

On Friday, Russia sent an Ilyushin 11-96 to collect everyone and the families’ panic that they might not make their deportation deadlines receded. The embassy’s two retreats, one in New York and another in Maryland, were closed on schedule. Thus was the Obama administration’s maximally-inconvenient timing accommodated.

Everybody was home again on New Year’s Day, and America was Russkiifrei!
But other than a cheap attempt to delegitimize President-elect Trump, what led the Obama administration to pursue a gambit that delivered them a very public humiliation?

Team Obama’s Russian election hacking allegations had three additional short term goals:

1) To get President-elect Trump crosswise regarding foreign policy with a still largely neocon-aligned U.S. Congress. First came the abstention from voting on the U.N. Security Council’s resolution condemning Israeli settlements as illegal, which was followed by the Russian holiday hacking operetta with a view to next inserting Iran as a rough wedge between the two. (U.S. insistence on Russia forsaking Iran – or China – will make short work of any progress Trump and Rex Tillerson might manage in the U.S.-Russian relationship.)

2)To provide Hillary Clinton with a smokescreen to escape the calumny of having spent over a billion and a half dollars of other people’s money on a self-designed electoral bust, which, in turn, is meant to discourage a future Attorney General Jeffrey Sessions from further investigation into the Clinton Foundation’s criminal pay-for-play set-up, the initial attack on F.B.I. director James Comey having been judged unwise and therefore scuttled.

3)To have the theme of Russian interference at the ready for Angela Merkel’s re-election campaign later this year. (A glance at the German press will show that this one’s already afoot.)


Those are the short-term goals of what will prove to be an ongoing neo-con vilification of Russia. What then is the long term goal of reanimating cold war nonsense 25 years after the Soviet Union’s demise?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/01/...lobalist-game/
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  #243  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:40 AM
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While I am not a supporter of President-Elect Trump, I am a supporter of sorting out the truth. When it comes to the 'Russian hacking' allegations, I agree with Julian Assange that there just isn't any evidence or proof that has been provided.

Since the end of World War II up until the year 2000, the U.S. government meddled in 81 different elections around the world. ​​Perhaps we Americans should focus on what our own government does instead of stirring up trouble with outsiders for political advantages.

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/...-against-trump
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  #244  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:55 PM
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As for the notion, implied but never directly stated, that the Russians essentially handed President-Elect Donald J. Trump his victory, the report is even more telling. But we’ll get to this in due time.

(1)The authors of the ICA inform us in advance that because this is a “declassified” version of a “highly classified assessment,” the “full supporting information” that can (allegedly) be found in the latter to show that the Kremlin launched an “influence campaign” is absent from the former.

To repeat: One needn’t read any further than the first page of this “assessment” to discover that the remaining 24 pages will not provide any more substantiation for the charge against Russia that Trump’s detractors have been making since not long after Election Day.

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That is, there is no substantiation disclosed in the version of the ICA that is available to the public.

But matters are even worse than this.

(2)Even the original classified document lacks proof for the charge made. The report is an “assessment” based on the “judgements” of the CIA, FBI, and NSA. On page 13, we are told how our intelligence agencies understand these terms. “Judgements are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact.” As for assessments, these “are based on collected information, which is often incomplete or fragmentary, as well as logic, argumentation, and precedents” (emphases added).

However plausible is the idea that the Russian government, like the governments of America, China, Israel, and a whole lot of other countries, tried to influence the politics of another nation, the US Intelligence Community admits to having zero “proof” that the Russians did any such thing. It also admits that the information on the basis of which it levels this ****ing accusation against the second most heavily nuclear-armed nation on the planet is “incomplete or fragmentary.”

(3)Since there was never any intention on the part of our intelligence agencies to supply any proof for their claim, the question arises: Why release this document at all?

The answer, I submit, is obvious enough. The political hacks who preside over the American intelligence community are motivated by exactly the same aching desire to undermine Trump that fuels leftist Democrat politicians and their media propagandists.

Unless this was the case, the thoughtful must ask, then why, when the report itself concedes that Russia has long sought to intervene in American elections, is the American government only now, after this election, making, quite literally, a public case out of it?

Why has our government permitted this to not only continue but (allegedly) worsen?

Why, after the most rancorous of election contests and at a time when the country remains as heavily divided as it is, why would anyone at this critical moment during a presidential-transition announce that a foreign government interjected in the election?

The most plausible answer to all of these questions is that Trump’s opponents want for Americans to think that if not for Russian interference, Hillary Clinton would be preparing to assume the office of the Presidency.

They want for Americans to think that Trump won 30 of America’s 50 states and 2600 of her 3100 counties because Vladimir Putin cheated for him.

The ICA is intended to lend a veneer of authority to this insinuation.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/01/...rwick/baloney/
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  #245  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:32 PM
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Many in the national media are certain that hacked emails hurt Hillary Clinton's chances in the election, but their reports and columns rarely cite any of the emails' contents that would have presumably affected the outcome.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/me...rticle/2611324
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  #246  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:41 PM
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I love this. The reports state that none of the information delivered had been altered or forged in any way. Now if you ask the democrats to name the ones that impacted the vote they are forced to acknowledge the indiscretions and that is why they have been ignoring them all along hoping to get a foul called eventually without addressing the content of the leaks.

I have found for myself that most casual democrats have never read any of the leaks as they were directed not to. Such a faithful little following. How about you Swampy, did you actually read them or do you still have your blindfold on
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  #247  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cralford View Post
How about you Swampy, did you actually read them or do you still have your blindfold on
Why would Swampy read a link someone else posts, when he does not even read anything but the misleading headlines on the links he posts?
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  #248  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:57 AM
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Not sure if this was already posted.

Murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich may have been the source of the Clinton and Podesta email leaks.


http://yournewswire.com/wikileaks-se...linton-emails/

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  #249  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:41 PM
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FBI, 5 other agencies to probe Kremlin aid to Trump:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/poli...127231799.html
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  #250  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:56 PM
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Keep beating that horse Swampy.

There is one way to prevent any meddling in future elections. Mandatory Voter ID.
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  #251  
Old 01-19-2017, 02:45 PM
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A traditional, old-school Liberal's rational response to DJT's inauguration and some of the mythical "issues" surrounding it:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...lumn/96669492/
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  #252  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:03 PM
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The New York Times is reporting that intercepted Russian communications are part of inquiry into Trump associates including Roger Stone and Paul Manafort:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/u...tion.html?_r=0
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  #253  
Old 01-20-2017, 08:40 AM
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Here's my 2 cents on Hacking - Russia, China, Germany... they all are doing it. And we are doing it to them. The real issue is some of these countries are doing it better than we are. We have fallen behind in cyber security in America. That's happened sometime in the last 8 years...and who's watch was that?

This buck stops at the Oval Office desk. If Obama had spent half as much time working on cyber security as he did golfing the last 8 years, we would be a safer America. Trump already has a team working on a plan to get our cyber security back on top and the best in the world. It'll get fixed and then the Dems will have to come up with another excuse for losing elections.
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  #254  
Old 01-20-2017, 09:15 AM
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The media and Swampy want everyone to believe that the Russians hacked the election and they are pushing that narrative. There is ZERO evidence that the Russians had any effect on the election between Trump and HRC.
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  #255  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:12 AM
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The Dems are trying to use the Comey firing to further question Trump's legitimacy.

There are already 3 investigations into alleged Russian collusion with the Trump campaign...House Intelligence Committee, Senate Intelligence Committee, and the FBI.

And the Dems will drag this out for the next 3.5 years. If the GOP did this to President Hillary, the Dems would be livid.

They have been investigating this for months and have found nothing so far.

If they had found anything so far, then a special prosecutor would be a good idea, but it just seems like a SP would be abused by the Dems.

If they promised to not drag this out for forever, then I think a SP would be a good idea.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...good_idea.html

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  #256  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:31 AM
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This is so stupid and a waste of money. Instead of doing useful legislation, these guys would rather grandstand and get their faces in front of the media in hopes of gaining snowflake votes.

If it is already a known fact that Russia hacked into the DNC, Clinton, etc., what do they hope to find out or prove? Three committees and a special prosecutor to restate Russia hacked.
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  #257  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The Dems are trying to use the Comey firing to further question Trump's legitimacy.

There are already 3 investigations into alleged Russian collusion with the Trump campaign...House Intelligence Committee, Senate Intelligence Committee, and the FBI.

And the Dems will drag this out for the next 3.5 years. If the GOP did this to President Hillary, the Dems would be livid.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...good_idea.html
Sounds pretty similar to the past 8 years.
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  #258  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The Dems are trying to use the Comey firing to further question Trump's legitimacy.

There are already 3 investigations into alleged Russian collusion with the Trump campaign...House Intelligence Committee, Senate Intelligence Committee, and the FBI.
Shouldn't his firing make Dems happy? I mean Clinton and her supporters blamed him in part for her losing the election.

President Trump can't take a crap without the Dems wanting an investigation. I think it's already getting old with the American people.
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  #259  
Old 05-11-2017, 10:49 AM
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More than that...

Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Shouldn't his firing make Dems happy? I mean Clinton and her supporters blamed him in part for her losing the election.

President Trump can't take a crap without the Dems wanting an investigation. I think it's already getting old with the American people.
It's the way Trump is doing things, JimBo. Comey found out about his firing from TV. And the timing?

I read that it's estimated that the congressional Russian investigations will take 18-24 months. This sort of thing will consume Trump's administration and will start to wear pretty thin. Even some GOP senators are speaking out re the Comey issue.

Resolving the Russian issue could very well make/break Trump's presidency. There are two interconnected issues: Business connections with Russian entities that are unacceptable for a president; collusion between Russia and Trump's people. We cannot go on like this for months.....these matters must be resolved.

Trump's tax returns are a central feature of the resolution. DJT's bedrock (blind) supporters say the returns don't matter. They do. If the returns are made public,....incl all supporting schedules and documentation,...and they prove useless or show nothing, great! That resolves a major issue once and for all. But, of course, there is a reason why the returns have not been released. They could contain embarrassing information and only that. Trump's ego may be bruised...but that should pass quickly. If they reveal meaningful information re Russia or other foreign entanglements that Trump has been denying exist he's in trouble.

Whatever, the issue now is not what tax returns reveal or don't reveal...it's getting the issue out of the way so the administration can move forward. Perpetual chaos will not serve the Country or the president well. The ball is in his court.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 05-11-2017 at 10:59 AM..
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  #260  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:29 AM
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Back to his tax returns and alleged Russian connections that do not exist. Allegations of which no evidence has ever been presented, mind you. I'm shocked.

I'd say the ball is in the court of those who accuse him of wrong doing. Just wanting it to be true isn't enough. Until something is presented to back such accusations, the burden of proof is on his accusers.
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  #261  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:48 AM
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Well the acting FBI director calls Trump-Russia investigation "highly significant," contradicting White House claim. So yeah there's certainly something.
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  #262  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:50 AM
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Missing the point, JimBo

Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Back to his tax returns and alleged Russian connections that do not exist. Allegations of which no evidence has ever been presented, mind you. I'm shocked.

I'd say the ball is in the court of those who accuse him of wrong doing. Just wanting it to be true isn't enough. Until something is presented to back such accusations, the burden of proof is on his accusers.
The point is that the Russian issue is stalling progress of Trump's presidency. Anything the president can do to bring that matter to an end he owes the country to do. He's not CEO of Trump enterprises any more...he's president. A president cannot do/say whatever he pleases...as CEO he could, essentially.

Over 70% of Americans want the returns released, incl some GOP senators. Why? Because the only reason they have not been released is because Trump is hiding something. It could be something trivial and entirely inconsequential to everyone but Trump. And it could be something significant. The point is, it's not up to the president to decide which it is. It's up to the people and Congress. Putting the tax return issue in the rear view mirror is essential.

Why can't you understand such an obvious thing?

Trump campaigned partially on the basis of having the benefit of his superior business acumen...which he said would serve the nation well with him in the WH. Yet the first few months have been nothing but amateurish bungling which has been getting in the way of his getting anything useful done.

Can't you understand that all this crap stalls progress in the many areas that impact the economy? And, make no mistake, it's all about the economy. Trump does not have four years to get the economy on track. He might not even have two if the GOP takes a hit in 2018. Every month wasted on this self-inflicted pain is costly to Trump's presidency and the country.
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  #263  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:11 PM
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One comforting thing about the Trump White House is that you aren't forced to choose between malice and incompetence. It's always both. It's utterly humiliating, for America, that he is this gullible.
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  #264  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:14 PM
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Will the new FBI be investigating the circumstances of the sale of 20% of our uranium supply to Russia by Hillary's approval and the ties to Canada and the Clinton Foundation contributions?

I mean, we could investigate shady things that really happened.

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  #265  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:24 PM
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The Republicans had Benghazi and an email server!

The Democrats now have this!

When it comes to an almost blind sense of tribalism, the Dems and the Reps are very much alike. Hey, at least they've got something in common.
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  #266  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
The Republicans had Benghazi and an email server!

The Democrats now have this!

When it comes to an almost blind sense of tribalism, the Dems and the Reps are very much alike. Hey, at least they've got something in common.
What is the "it" that the Democrats have? Can anyone explain what it is? A conspiracy theory?

Last edited by Fudd; 05-11-2017 at 02:51 PM..
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  #267  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Shouldn't his firing make Dems happy? I mean Clinton and her supporters blamed him in part for her losing the election.

President Trump can't take a crap without the Dems wanting an investigation. I think it's already getting old with the American people.
Apparently not. What appears to be getting old is the amateur hour in the WH. Trump is on course to continue the trend - each president worse than the prior.

His pettiness, narcissism and need for retribution will make it exceedingly difficult for him to reverse course. Especially if Pelosi is speaker in 2019.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Back to his tax returns and alleged Russian connections that do not exist. Allegations of which no evidence has ever been presented, mind you. I'm shocked.

I'd say the ball is in the court of those who accuse him of wrong doing. Just wanting it to be true isn't enough. Until something is presented to back such accusations, the burden of proof is on his accusers.
Let's see.

A senior campaign adviser (Flynn) may well face criminal charges related to his financial dealings associated with, among other things, Russia.

The Senate Intelligence Committee has issued subpoenas for Flynn's records.

The Senate Intelligence Committee has subpoenaed FinCen records for several members of campaign leadership and advisers. Those targeted probably include Kushner.

If it weren't so harmful for the country, I almost wish it would be uncovered that Trump is a Russian agent. Although some would likely find reasons to justify that too.
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  #269  
Old 05-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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Just as some on here would find justification to keep bashing anything and everything that the Pres does, hoping that something will stick on the wall.

Hillary and the Dems didn't seem to learn anything about how she and they ran her campaign. HRC and the dems continued to run ads showing how DT treated women, which would have been okay it she wasn't sitting next to and going home at night with the bigger womanizer. That was idiotic, did she and the dems think the public would not notice the hypocrisy.

Just imagine what we could have accomplished the last 30 plus years had we focused on the issues concerning our nation and the world instead of playing games with one another.

Didn't we learn anything after spending millions to impeach Bill Clinton and yet he remained in office.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:26 PM
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What cracks me up about the Russian hacking is that it only revealed things that were true about Hillary and the Dems. It simply showed how crooked and slimy they were. So when the Dems say the hacking cost them the election (which probably isn't true anyway) they are simply saying that the truth being revealed about them cost them the election. And, of course, by saying the Russians hacked various e-mails, it only makes the issue of her private server (with classified information on it) even worse.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:27 PM
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No need for that...

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Just as some on here would find justification to keep bashing anything and everything that the Pres does, hoping that something will stick on the wall.....
Avid, in my opinion, nearly all of the president's problems are self-inflicted. There were a few highly significant issues that were to be his priorities. What is standing in the way of meaningful action on those priorities is one distracting Trump-created issue after another....fueling a media frenzy that Trump then blames the media for.

Whether Comey was a good FBI director or not is not what is dominating the news today. Rather, it's the incredibly bad timing of the firing, the fact that the director learns about it from TV, the fact that the day after the firing the stated WH justifications are contradicted by the acting FBI director, the apparent grumbling by the very highly respected Deputy AG, two weeks on the job, that his letter to Trump is being used as the justification for a firing planned well in advance...and it goes on and on.

Many years ago when the "new" Mets were at their lowest point Casey Stengel is reported to have asked his players, "Can't anybody here play this game?" I'm reminded of that as I watch the daily goings on at the White House. Another one that comes to mind is the admonition, "When you're in a deep hole the first thing you've got to do is stop digging". Trump's WH instead inserts power tools to accelerate the digging.

The president is his own worst enemy, Avid. No one is making this bad stuff up....the president is hard at work doing it himself.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:59 PM
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Trump Not Under Investigation

Unlike Benghazi, Fast and Furious, the IRS scandal, Hillary's e-mail/server scandal, Obamacare lies, there is not there here. Trump is not under investigation as admitted by two top senators - Grassley and Feinstein. All you have here is Trump haters who want to do a character assassination. What you have here is hate.

Mr. Trump’s veracity in make that assertion has been questioned, but two top senators — Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles E. Grassley and ranking Democrat Dianne Feinstein — briefed last week by Mr. Comey on the broad scope of his investigation said he gave them no indication the president is a target.
“Sen. Feinstein and I heard nothing that contradicted the president’s statement,” Mr. Grassley said.
Mrs. Feinstein agreed with that.
Neither senator would reveal who the targets of the FBI investigation are, but Mr. Grassley said the bureau should come forward and make clear how far its probe goes.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...investigation/

Rather how many did the Obama Administration surveil and unmask.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:33 PM
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It's rather obvious the targets include people who were inside the Trump campaign, and may be in the administration. Trump does not personally have to be a target for this to effectively end his presidency. Flynn was both. And the FinCen subpoenas reportedly include people in the administration.

It would be shocking and a sign of incompetence if he were directly involved. If any coordination occurred it could have been with say Flynn and Kushner as contacts in the campaign. Plausible denial is common. Just turn a blind eye to what's done.

The Russia issue is about a LOT more than just hacked emails. Much of the alt right stuff that went through social media and digital sites like Infowars originated from Russia.

People are starting to sound like Dem apologists for Benghazi, email etc.

Beyond whatever the truth is here is Trumps inability to stop shooting himself in the head. I would say shooting himself in the foot but his self inflicted wounds are more lethal. He doesn't have a lot more time to turn this aircraft carrier around. And I think his temperament and personality will make that turn highly unlikely to occur.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:48 PM
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Not at all the point

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
What cracks me up about the Russian hacking is that it only revealed things that were true about Hillary and the Dems. It simply showed how crooked and slimy they were. So when the Dems say the hacking cost them the election (which probably isn't true anyway) they are simply saying that the truth being revealed about them cost them the election. And, of course, by saying the Russians hacked various e-mails, it only makes the issue of her private server (with classified information on it) even worse.
Today the heads of all six U.S. intelligence agencies testified to the fact that Russia's used its cyber offensive capability,...authorized at the highest level of the Russian government,.....to influence the outcome of the U.S. election. No ifs, ands or buts,....no uncertainty. (Trump continues to deny this.)

And Russia is doing the same thing in other Western country elections. This strikes at the very heart of the democracies.

What the West should do about this is unclear. Russia cannot be allowed to get away with this sort of thing; which some have described as serious as an act of war. Russia is a very weak country by most measures and is trying to gain a critical edge. The U.S. clearly is trying to figure out what to do; how to respond. We are in a different era.

Just as in hardware warfare, the U.S. needs an offensive capability that is stronger than anyone else's so as to serve as an effective deterrent. We created all this stuff....can we do it?

As for Russia's influence on the recent U.S. presidential election. Trump won by a small margin in critical states. No one will ever know the extent to which Russian meddling/hacking influenced the vote. Nonetheless, given the close nature of the election, there is as much reason to conclude that Russian involvement changed the outcome as there is to say otherwise. It's unknowable. That misses the point, however. That a foreign power tried and may have influenced the outcome of the U.S. presidential election is a happening of massive importance.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
It's rather obvious the targets include people who were inside the Trump campaign, and may be in the administration. Trump does not personally have to be a target for this to effectively end his presidency.
It could be.... Where is the proof? There is none. This has been going on since November - almost seven months. Put up or shut up.
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  #276  
Old 05-11-2017, 07:20 PM
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Very Negligible Impact

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
That a foreign power tried and may have influenced the outcome of the U.S. presidential election is a happening of massive importance.
That a foreign power exposed the WikiLeaks - told what was true? Come on. The release of the e-mails did nothing for me but expose what was already known about the Democrats. The e-mails made no difference in my vote. They had very negligible impact.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:22 PM
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The duration issignificant...

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
It could be.... Where is the proof? There is none. This has been going on since November - almost seven months. Put up or shut up.
The way you put the matter the fact that the investigation has been going on for seven months proves nothing has been found...."put up or shut up".

Seems to me the interpretation of the long duration should be just the opposite. Given the resources the government has at its disposal, when those resources are brought to bear for a reasonable time and turn up nothing the investigation is brief and is terminated.....nothing further to investigate.

In contrast, when the wealth of government resources is brought to bear and the investigation goes on for a long time it's because the investigation is bearing fruit....not the opposite. If nothing of significance turned up what would be investigated further? It's when significant things are uncovered that an investigation expands and its duration lengthens.

Some years ago Trump's empire was in debt to the tune of ~ $4 billion which could not be repaid. It has been reported that a significant portion of that debt was Donald Trump's personally. Around that time Trump junior said that the only place they could borrow money was Russia. At the time these developments were of the "so what?" variety...for no one could have ever imagined that Trump would become president.

Fast forward to today. I have never heard/read anything about what happened to the Trump financial debts to Russia in the intervening years. There seems to be no doubt that the debt existed at one time....DJT Jr. described it. Has it all been paid off a long time ago? Hopefully so. Would American's tolerate a president whose businesses and family were in debt to a foreign government...any foreign government,...to the tune of hundreds of millions, billions?

So, a pretty straightforward bottom line would seem to revolve around some simple issues: Is it true that Trump and his businesses borrowed serious money from Russians as was reported a few years ago? If true, what is the current status of that debt?

Nothing has to be illegal about any of this....just unacceptable for a president to be indebted to foreign interests. Anyone disagree with that? Of course, it's significant that the president has said repeatedly that he has no business/financial connections whatsoever with Russia or any other country. If that is untrue the Country is in for a rough ride.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:25 PM
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Not me either..

Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
That a foreign power exposed the WikiLeaks - told what was true? Come on. The release of the e-mails did nothing for me but expose what was already known about the Democrats. The e-mails made no difference in my vote. They had very negligible impact.
Mich, my vote was unaffected as well. But there is no way either of us or anyone else will ever know how the votes of the "undecided" may have been influenced.
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:05 PM
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Investigating Who?

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
The way you put the matter the fact that the investigation has been going on for seven months proves nothing has been found...."put up or shut up".

Seems to me the interpretation of the long duration should be just the opposite. Given the resources the government has at its disposal, when those resources are brought to bear for a reasonable time and turn up nothing the investigation is brief and is terminated.....nothing further to investigate
President Trump was correct when he said he wasn’t personally under investigation in the FBI’s Russia election meddling probe, two key senators said Thursday, though both of them said the government owes the public a better explanation of what’s going on.

Mr. Trump’s veracity in make that assertion has been questioned, but two top senators — Judiciary Committee Chairman Charles E. Grassley and ranking Democrat Dianne Feinstein — briefed last week by Mr. Comey on the broad scope of his investigation said he gave them no indication the president is a target.
“Sen. Feinstein and I heard nothing that contradicted the president’s statement,” Mr. Grassley said.
Mrs. Feinstein agreed with that.
Neither senator would reveal who the targets of the FBI investigation are, but Mr. Grassley said the bureau should come forward and make clear how far its probe goes.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...investigation/

Bolling on Trump-Russia Probe: At What Point Do They Say, 'We Didn't Find Anything'?

"For ten months, they've investigated, they've dug, they've subpoenaed, and they've found exactly zero, an air ball on it," Bolling said.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/05/1...ng-james-comey

Could be doesn't count till it is. They should also come forward and say if they are investigating the Clinton Foundation.

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Old 05-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
It could be.... Where is the proof? There is none. This has been going on since November - almost seven months. Put up or shut up.
If things were limited to 7 months, the House likely never finds Clinton's email servers, Bill is never impeached, Ollie North never shreds any documents and Nixon serves 8 years.
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  #281  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Sounds pretty similar to the past 8 years.
How so? What part of the GOP investigations were illegitimate?
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How so? What part of the GOP investigations were illegitimate?
Did I say they were?

The response seems to indicate you believe the Senate Intelligence and House Committee investigations are illegitimate?

Republicans control those committees, and many are concerned about things in the White House.

I just said what's going on now is much like the last 8 years. There will be investigation after investigation each time something screws up. And those investigations will drag on, regardless of how little or how much is found.

Decrying the current investigations while supporting those in the past 8 years is close to the ultimate in hypocrisy.
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  #283  
Old 05-12-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Did I say they were?

The response seems to indicate you believe the Senate Intelligence and House Committee investigations are illegitimate?

Republicans control those committees, and many are concerned about things in the White House.

I just said what's going on now is much like the last 8 years. There will be investigation after investigation each time something screws up. And those investigations will drag on, regardless of how little or how much is found.

Decrying the current investigations while supporting those in the past 8 years is close to the ultimate in hypocrisy.
At least with the GOP investigations into the Obama administration, there was some smoke and sometimes fire.

Right now, the Dems have zero evidence that Trump has done anything untoward, yet Schumer is threatening to shut down the Senate over all of this unless a SP is appointed.

There needs to be a balance between properly investigating all of this and allowing the Trump administration and the GOP to conduct their business as normal.

The Dems should not be allowed to shut down the federal government based upon flimsy rumors, conspiracy theories, and innuendo and anger and incredulity over losing the election.

The burden of proof is on the accuser here.
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  #284  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
At least with the GOP investigations into the Obama administration, there was some smoke and sometimes fire.

Right now, the Dems have zero evidence that Trump has done anything untoward, yet Schumer is threatening to shut down the Senate over all of this unless a SP is appointed.

There needs to be a balance between properly investigating all of this and allowing the Trump administration and the GOP to conduct their business as normal.

The Dems should not be allowed to shut down the federal government based upon flimsy rumors, conspiracy theories, and innuendo and anger and incredulity over losing the election.

The burden of proof is on the accuser here.

Richard Burr is a Republican. So is James Comey. So is Devin Nunez. All of the intelligence committees that are investigating Trump are (or were in the case of the FBI) headed by Republicans. What Democrats are you talking about?? Three different intelligence committees are conducting investigations, and all are headed by Republicans. If that doesn't qualify as "some smoke" then I don't know what the hell does.

Schumer was threatening a government shutdown over the border wall. I haven't seen where he was threatening it over whether or not a special prosecutor would be appointed. Maybe he did, but I haven't seen it.

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  #285  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
At least with the GOP investigations into the Obama administration, there was some smoke and sometimes fire.

Right now, the Dems have zero evidence that Trump has done anything untoward, yet Schumer is threatening to shut down the Senate over all of this unless a SP is appointed.

There needs to be a balance between properly investigating all of this and allowing the Trump administration and the GOP to conduct their business as normal.

The Dems should not be allowed to shut down the federal government based upon flimsy rumors, conspiracy theories, and innuendo and anger and incredulity over losing the election.

The burden of proof is on the accuser here.
Yeah, right. More blind partisan hypocrisy. There is no smoke. Flynn failed to declare inocone from Russian souecres. What, he wasn't a campaign advisor and part of the administration? Mana fort had significant payments to him. But there is no smoke.

Sounds like the same clueless partisan rhetoric from the left on Benghazi and emails. Total hypocrisy.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Yeah, right. More blind partisan hypocrisy. There is no smoke. Flynn failed to declare inocone from Russian souecres. What, he wasn't a campaign advisor and part of the administration? Mana fort had significant payments to him. But there is no smoke.

Sounds like the same clueless partisan rhetoric from the left on Benghazi and emails. Total hypocrisy.
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There was smoke and fire on Benghazi and the e-mails. There was hard proof in regard to Benghazi and the e-mails. There is no smoke and fire about Trump. There is no hard proof. Hypocrisy not. Flynn admittedly lied and was fired. Manafort had dealings with Russia. So did Hilary and a lot of other Democrats. So far there is not much at all to the Russian investigation. It will probably end up being a Democratic political waste of time. The Democrats are doing nothing constructive for the country. They have no ideas and no proof of a Russian conspiracy. Perhaps we should be investigating Hillary giving away 20% of our uranium to the Russians. Cash flowed from Russia to the Clinton Foundation because of this deal. Maybe that is the real conspiracy. The Republicans are the only ones presenting ideas. That is why Trump got elected. The only idea the Democrats have is to hate Trump.
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  #287  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:03 PM
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I would like to know what the theory is behind this manufactured "scandal" with the Russians. What do the conspiracy theorists theorize actually happened between the Trump campaign and the Russians? Someone tell me what the Liberals are losing their collective minds over.

Benghazi was about the government lying to us about the cause of the conflict to fool voters just before the election, and it was later proven to be true.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I would like to know what the theory is behind this manufactured "scandal" with the Russians. What do the conspiracy theorists theorize actually happened between the Trump campaign and the Russians? Someone tell me what the Liberals are losing their collective minds over.

Benghazi was about the government lying to us about the cause of the conflict to fool voters just before the election, and it was later proven to be true.
Liberals lose their minds over something as innocuous as chalk on a sidewalk. The liberals aren't who really matter, though. Their power is limited, and they're not the ones who are heading up the investigations. What is it that is compelling Burr, Nunez, and Comey to investigate? It's not a good look for that to happen right after a subpoena had been issued for Flynn, nor was it good to go on TV and say that "this Russia thing" was part of his reason for doing it. When he does things that make it appear as though he is obstructing justice, and when he's being investigated not by whack job liberals, but by members of the Republican Party, it will make anyone curious who isn't sitting there with their fingers in their ears singing "La-La-La."
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Yeah, right. More blind partisan hypocrisy. There is no smoke. Flynn failed to declare inocone from Russian souecres. What, he wasn't a campaign advisor and part of the administration? Mana fort had significant payments to him. But there is no smoke.

Sounds like the same clueless partisan rhetoric from the left on Benghazi and emails. Total hypocrisy.
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The Manafort stuff has been known about for a long time, I think around 10 or 15 years ago was when he started working for a Russian for around 10 years. And he has been open about working for a Russian.

Flynn lied and was fired, it seems unlikely that Trump would have brought Flynn aboard had Trump known about the lies.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Richard Burr is a Republican. So is James Comey. So is Devin Nunez. All of the intelligence committees that are investigating Trump are (or were in the case of the FBI) headed by Republicans. What Democrats are you talking about?? Three different intelligence committees are conducting investigations, and all are headed by Republicans. If that doesn't qualify as "some smoke" then I don't know what the hell does.

Schumer was threatening a government shutdown over the border wall. I haven't seen where he was threatening it over whether or not a special prosecutor would be appointed. Maybe he did, but I haven't seen it.

No smoke as of right now...all statements by investigators have cleared Trump of any wrongdoing.

Schumer is threatening a slowdown, not a shutdown, my mistake.


Schumer Senate slowdown threat:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/11/de...nate-shutdown/:

Dems Say Trump Must Meet Demands Or Face Senate Slowdown



Democrats continued their efforts to slow down business in the Senate Thursday in order to pressure the Trump Justice Department to appoint a special prosecutor for the Russia investigation and to give into other demands.

Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins took to the floor Wednesday and vented her frustration that the Senate Aging Committee hearing had been shut down when Senate Democrats invoked the two-hour rule which can prevent committee hearings from happening.

“We have witnesses who have come here from four different states,” the Collins said. “How does that contribute to solving anything that has to do with Jim Comey’s firing? I mean, it’s just ridiculous."




I do not mind investigations being conducted, but investigations should not be an excuse for the House Dems to obstruct and the Senate Dems to slow down the Senate.

Last edited by ud2; 05-13-2017 at 01:35 AM..
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Liberals lose their minds over something as innocuous as chalk on a sidewalk. The liberals aren't who really matter, though. Their power is limited, and they're not the ones who are heading up the investigations. What is it that is compelling Burr, Nunez, and Comey to investigate? It's not a good look for that to happen right after a subpoena had been issued for Flynn, nor was it good to go on TV and say that "this Russia thing" was part of his reason for doing it. When he does things that make it appear as though he is obstructing justice, and when he's being investigated not by whack job liberals, but by members of the Republican Party, it will make anyone curious who isn't sitting there with their fingers in their ears singing "La-La-La."
The argument that I keep hearing is that there needs to be more investigation because there is an investigation. The FBI itself says that there has been no obstruction by the Trump administration. Right now, they even say that there is no evidence of collusion with Russia by the Trump campaign. So, there it is.

Now, consider all of the law breaking and nefarious activity by Clinton with the illicit server, top secret information being mishandled, sale of uranium to Russia and money collected by the Clinton Foundation through the sale of State Department Influence. Those "contributions" were designed to bring foreign money and influence into the campaign and conceal it from the people by storing the information on a private server. There is enough evidence that we know about to put her away. Yet, the focus is on the Trump Campaign investigation which has yielded no evidence up to this date.

I'm not saying don't investigate the Trump Campaign. I'm saying that if we are really concerned about foreign influence on our elections, Clinton has a mountain of evidence suggesting that she invited it, and there is no evidence suggesting that the Trump Campaign did. Outrage is misplaced. Re-open the Clinton investigation.

Last edited by Fudd; 05-13-2017 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:27 AM
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You keep bringing up Clinton and Liberals. Do you not understand that A) that is a completely separate issue, and B) Liberals are not who is leading the investigative committees against Trump. For all practical purposes, the liberals are out of the way and are limited to merely throwing **** fits. Burr, Comey, and Nunez are not liberals.

Your stance seems to be "Well, there hasn't been any evidence that's been made public, so therefore there is no evidence and there won't be any evidence, so the liberals should just shut up. And, what about Clinton?"

Well, whether the liberals shut up or not, Burr, Comey (well, formerly) and Nunez seem unaffected by it. They're the ones that are investigating this. They're the ones that being persistent. All the liberals are doing is yelling at whoever will listen because that's really all they can do. I don't know why you continue to bring them into this as if they're the ones that are spearheading it. Clinton isn't doing anything either. If the FBI wants to investigate her then, then great, they should go for it. There is nothing she or anyone else can do to hinder that now. What's she gonna do? Fire the FBI Director? And, Clinton has nothing to do with the Trump investigation, though.

Why are you blaming the liberals when it's the GOP that literally holds all the cards right now?? If they want to investigate Clinton, then they can, and if there is any truth what everyone is saying about her and they can prove it, then they should. But, they're not. They are, however, investigating Trump. And, it's not the liberals. Do you at least understand that??

Last edited by xubrew; 05-13-2017 at 09:45 AM..
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  #293  
Old 05-13-2017, 09:55 AM
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What's funny (well, maybe not funny, but comical) is that had Clinton won the election I'm betting she would have either fired Comey, or had him replaced, at some point while she was in office. The predictable response would have been pretty much exactly the same, but with both camps reacting in the complete opposite.

America ladies and gentlemen!!!
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Why are you blaming the liberals when it's the GOP that literally holds all the cards right now?? If they want to investigate Clinton, then they can, and if there is any truth what everyone is saying about her and they can prove it, then they should. But, they're not. They are, however, investigating Trump. And, it's not the liberals. Do you at least understand that??
Trump said that he was not going to pursue prosecuting Hillary. I suppose that the FBI can still pursue the matter. This is a sensitive matter IMO, I am not sure if we want to start criminally prosecuting election losers, banana republics do that type of stuff.


http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/10/1...linton-abraham:

Krauthammer said Trump's low point was his threat to seek prosecution of Clinton over what he perceived to be an ineffective investigation into her handling of classified information.

"That's 'banana republic'," Krauthammer said, "We have had 250 years of miraculous transfer of power--in other countries your life can be on the line in elections. The breach of that etiquette...is something that should never be done."

O'Reilly disagreed, saying that Trump may have the power to follow through on seeking legal action in an "investigation [he] deemed not credible."

Krauthammer pointed to Gerald Ford's treatment of Richard Nixon as a counterpoint.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:13 AM
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You know what's funny? The CIA costs 44 Billion a year to protect us from evil, foreign and (in isolated cases) domestic.
What are they doing with their time on the job???
I'll make a guess...they're playing gin rummy with the FBI.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:33 AM
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XuBrew, the hysteria over Russian interference is very much a partisan creation. It may include the never-Trumpers, but it is a celebration of obstructionism by the Trump resistance. CNN and the destroy-Trump media has 24 hour hysteria coverage, including calling him a Nazi, Facist, racist, etc, etc because he fired Comey.

Let the investigation continue. I have no qualm with that.

But if we are going to be hysterical over this conspiracy theory, can we not look at real foreign influence in our last election funneled through the Clinton Foundation?
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:42 AM
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Keep to the main point, please...

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
XuBrew, the hysteria over Russian interference is very much a partisan creation. It may include the never-Trumpers, but it is a celebration of obstructionism by the Trump resistance. CNN and the destroy-Trump media has 24 hour hysteria coverage, including calling him a Nazi, Facist, racist, etc, etc because he fired Comey.

Let the investigation continue. I have no qualm with that.

But if we are going to be hysterical over this conspiracy theory, can we not look at real foreign influence in our last election funneled through the Clinton Foundation?
Guys, forget Clinton, forget Trump, forget collusion. The main overriding issue is Russian attempts to interfere/influence elections in Western democracies, including the Unites States. Clapper et al testified with 100% certainty that all agencies are sure that has been happening.

Get politics out of it. This is not a liberal or conservative issue, not a Democrat or Republican issue, not a Clinton or Trump issue. Russian interference in our electoral process for whatever reason is a national security issue of the highest order. It has to be fully understood and countered.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys, forget Clinton, forget Trump, forget collusion. The main overriding issue is Russian attempts to interfere/influence elections in Western democracies, including the Unites States. Clapper et al testified with 100% certainty that all agencies are sure that has been happening.

Get politics out of it. This is not a liberal or conservative issue, not a Democrat or Republican issue, not a Clinton or Trump issue. Russian interference in our electoral process for whatever reason is a national security issue of the highest order. It has to be fully understood and countered.
Can you please explain what you believe to be the interference -

1. Did any Russians who were not citizens vote?

2. Did Russia subvert the vote counting process in some way?

3. If neither #1 or #2 happened, then are you suggesting that Russia tried to illegally influence the way people voted? If so, how and what was illegal about what they did.

4. If indeed #3 happened, then are you also suggesting that voters somehow were so gullible and poorly informed to fall for this illegal influence and voted differently because of this illegal influence? If so, can you quantify.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:26 PM
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That's what the investigation is about!

Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Can you please explain what you believe to be the interference -

1. Did any Russians who were not citizens vote?

2. Did Russia subvert the vote counting process in some way?

3. If neither #1 or #2 happened, then are you suggesting that Russia tried to illegally influence the way people voted? If so, how and what was illegal about what they did.

4. If indeed #3 happened, then are you also suggesting that voters somehow were so gullible and poorly informed to fall for this illegal influence and voted differently because of this illegal influence? If so, can you quantify.
`69, Russia has been working to influence elections in the U.S., France and the U.K. The purpose of the investigations is to determine the "how" and "why" of such influence.

There are rules/laws governing our election process. For example, when I go to my polling place candidates are usually there attempting a last minute effort to influence my vote. There is always a sign saying that they must remain 100 ft, or whatever, from the entrance. And I'm sure there are many other rules governing our process. They have a purpose.

The former governor of my state is now in jail because he tried to conceal that
he was consulting with a person running for election. There are rules/laws governing elections....including foreign entities.

Whether or not Russia was successful is not the point at all. It's whether or not any laws were broken. Stop focusing on the last presidential election and try to look at the larger picture, please.
--------------

Just a bit more: The points brew makes in the following post are good ones. There is another important point...dealing with "concealment". I mentioned the governor who is serving a 2+ year sentence for consulting a candidate for the U.S. congress. There is absolutely nothing wrong with such a consulting arrangement. He and the candidate broke the law by concealing the arrangement,....collusion.

I suspect that it's perfectly legal for the Russian government to vigorously support a U.S. presidential candidate, take out TV adds, and whatever. But I am certain they cannot do anything that conceals their activity. So, aside from brew's points re the illegality of hacking......concealment of any election-related activities is not legal, by foreign governments or anyone else.

Last edited by UACFlyer; 05-13-2017 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:30 PM
xubrew xubrew is offline
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Can you please explain what you believe to be the interference -

1. Did any Russians who were not citizens vote?

2. Did Russia subvert the vote counting process in some way?

3. If neither #1 or #2 happened, then are you suggesting that Russia tried to illegally influence the way people voted? If so, how and what was illegal about what they did.

4. If indeed #3 happened, then are you also suggesting that voters somehow were so gullible and poorly informed to fall for this illegal influence and voted differently because of this illegal influence? If so, can you quantify.
Are you serious??

Had Kevin Mitnick said in court "Well, I didn't influence an election, so I should be free to go," He would have been laughed out of the room.

You don't need to influence an election in order to be in violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Hacking is illegal. Period. If I were able to hack into your email account and you were able to prove that I had done it, I'd be charged with a crime and I'd look pretty freakin' ridiculous if I tried to say I didn't do anything wrong because I didn't influence the results of an election, or anything else. If Russia hacked emails and documents, then that in and of itself is illegal whether it influenced the election or not. Anyone who worked with them or conspired with them has also done something that is illegal.

One of the many things that Trump did that was really stupid was announcing that Russia should hack Clinton's email. It basically makes it impossible for whoever it is that investigating this to ignore that.

Having said that, in a weird way it kind of makes Trump look a little less suspicious, at least personally. As unbelievably stupid as it was, it would be infinitely more stupid to say something like that if you were actually involved in hacking the emails. I mean surely to God he's not THAT dumb. Or...is he? We'll see what the investigations turn up.

Last edited by xubrew; 05-13-2017 at 12:53 PM..
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