Student Voucher Distribution Debacle - Page 2

rollo · #**101** 10-21-2008, 12:41 PM

Back in July, you stated that:

"I will NOT attend a single home non-conference game this year--nor will i sell my seat. Let it sit empty."

Instead of letting it sit empty, why don't you give your non-conference tickets to some deserving 'intittled' student? You could sponsor a lottery or raffle!!! And donate all procedes to the 'intittled' student fund. At $32k/year, there are thousands of 'intittled' students who have no other means to attend UD games outside of donated tickets like yours. Such actions would be a wonderful gesture by you, considering that UD is - as you said - 'their' school.

And if it is 'their' school, why do they keep calling me asking for more money?

Gazoo · #**102** 10-21-2008, 12:43 PM

Apparently every university except UD has this figured out. I'd be interested to see their policies.

As an example, tOSU provides up to 30,000 student tickets to the football games. That's over 25% of the stadium, isn't it?

And the cost? $124 per season pass, plus the subsidy provided by the student activity fee. So every student pays to attend whether or not they actually do. That's $3,720,000 in annual revenue from students just for football games.

But wait, there's more. That $124 only gets you in to the 4 home Big 10 games. If you want to see Youngstown State, Troy, and Ohio University, that will cost you an extra $31 per ticket. That's an additional $2,790,000, plus the subsidy from the student activity fee.

So how do they determine seating after collecting their $6,510,000 from the students? Based on class rank. So the bookworms get the best seats, not the most rabid fans.

Maybe it's not just UD that worries about money.

How about basketball?

2,000 lower bowl and 1,000 upper bowl tickets are available for students. (Remember: enrollment ~60,000). 19,200 is the capacity, so about 15% - 16% is given to students. I don't know the comparable number at UD.

How do you order? By going online and clicking. First come, first served. Reward the most rabid fans . . . no.

Cost? $121 for 10 games, Visa and Mastercard accepted.

tman · #**103** 10-21-2008, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Apparently every university except UD has this figured out. I'd be interested to see their policies.

As an example, tOSU provides up to 30,000 student tickets to the football games. That's over 25% of the stadium, isn't it?

And the cost? $124 per season pass, plus the subsidy provided by the student activity fee. So every student pays to attend whether or not they actually do. That's $3,720,000 in annual revenue from students just for football games.

But wait, there's more. That $124 only gets you in to the 4 home Big 10 games. If you want to see Youngstown State, Troy, and Ohio University, that will cost you an extra $31 per ticket. That's an additional $2,790,000, plus the subsidy from the student activity fee.

So how do they determine seating after collecting their $6,510,000 from the students? Based on class rank. So the bookworms get the best seats, not the most rabid fans.

Maybe it's not just UD that worries about money.

How about basketball?

2,000 lower bowl and 1,000 upper bowl tickets are available for students. (Remember: enrollment ~60,000). 19,200 is the capacity, so about 15% - 16% is given to students. I don't know the comparable number at UD.

How do you order? By going online and clicking. First come, first served. Reward the most rabid fans . . . no.

Cost? $121 for 10 games, Visa and Mastercard accepted.

I'm not sure who you are directing this too?
I thought we are talking about problems with the method for distributing tickets to students.

I fail to see the comparison.
I don't think money is an issue here (outside of someone wanting the students to buy season tickets).

But perhaps if UD finds itself playing for a national championship numerous times, much like OSU has the last several years--we could-compare athletic issues.

Perhaps a better fit would be Duquene.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #**104** 10-21-2008, 01:36 PM

Ive stayed away from this because I would flip out.

Tman's last post may have been the best thing he has ever said on this website.

Just remember when you were a student ... times have changed now and so has the tuition of 35k.

Students are not entitled to front row tickets ... they EARN THEM by the current crappy system ... but I have a serious issue when a person is told something then lied to and not given tickets because more people have a last name with the letter B, then Q. I am sorry, every year Red Scare is crapped on ... there is a reason for that guys, come on ... the students are getting railed here.

Students are not entitled to front row seats, what they are entitled is a fare chance to get the seats to watch the team they love ... and losing the die hards is losing the atmosphere.

Just remember UD arena 5 yrs ago and look at it the past year or two, there is no comparison. THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT IS SCREWING THE STUDENTS and Red Scare is their fall guy. Sooner than later there will be less student tickets available because the U of D are money hungry asses ... and when that happens, alumni will hopefully stop buying tickets, because the student section is the energy of the crowd ... and without it the atmosphere would suck.

I could just imagine ... close game ... 1:30 left ... everyone leaving ... half the students than right now ... man that would will the team onto victory. All for a couple extra bucks, after already scheduling 15 home games with cupcakes, raising current ticket prices and raking in NIT money from last season.

lilrudy4787 · #**105** 10-21-2008, 01:49 PM

i whole heartedly agree BB33...the die hards are becoming less and less, and underclassment who go to other events, but dont care as much about basketball are increasing. its SAD...and the home crowd will suffer.

The school is money hungry and doesnt care about what the students think about AT ALL!

rollo · #**106** 10-21-2008, 02:05 PM

I prefer OSU's plan which benefits seniors and feel that all freshman should be in the 400's.
Tickets should also be distributed on a game-by-game basis.

I'm not doubting that the current system is flawed. Majorly. However, everyone knows the rules ahead of time, and if someone else outsmarted you, outplanned you or just got up 15 minutes sooner than you, I don't see how that is overly unfair to anyone. The alphabetical distribution process is a joke. Now if some bum off the street and his homeless buddies infiltrate the ranks and take over the student section, I see it differently. But as far as I can tell, the student section is filled with......ummmm, students.

FYI: UD's tuition was high in 1981, too. In fact, in 1981 UD's tuition was 8X greater than my high school's tuition. Today, UD's tuition is 'only' 4.5X the HS tuition. Not to say that $32K is cheap, I'm only saying college loans were needed then, too.

Furio · #**107** 10-21-2008, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by udstevied_D87

amen to that...ive gone to basically every home game for the past three years and now i cant. I got an email from reds scare last night saying they have a great idea for this problem pending approval from the athletic admin

Any guess as to what this great idea is?
No matter what they do someone is going to be mad.
Either mad they changed it or mad they didn't.

The Fat Tuna · #**108** 10-21-2008, 02:25 PM

There is no way to distribute tickets that would be perfectly fair and not cause a rumble. If you do spirit points, the seniors complain. If you do seniority, freshmen complain. If you do first come first serve, people complain who couldn't make it, or were misinformed of the time.

They need to simply go back to the time tested seniority rule. The students with the most credits get the option to buy the best seats. Let the freshmen complain all they want, but for a decent amount of home games there are no students being turned away for lack of tickets. If you want to go to the game you can still get in. As of right now it is only a select few games that are truly full.

UDBrian · #**109** 10-21-2008, 02:29 PM

I was under the impression that some of the student tickets were sold because they were repeatedly sitting empty. If there are empty student seats then it is wasted money.

rollo · #**110** 10-21-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by lilrudy4787

i whole heartedly agree BB33...the die hards are becoming less and less, and underclassment who go to other events, but dont care as much about basketball are increasing. its SAD...and the home crowd will suffer.

The school is money hungry and doesnt care about what the students think about AT ALL!

What's your definition of a 'die hard' fan? One who pouts if (s)he doesn't get the best seats and remains at home instead of attending the game? Or one who, regardless of class, attends every UD athletic event possible in order to secure the best seats? The former is your classic fair-weather fan, so I'll vote for the latter.

Back when the Bengals were good, I paid big bucks to sit in the top row of Riverfront Stadium surrounded by howling winds and a -53 degree windchill factor to cheer on my Who-Deys. Every breath hurt, every clap hurt. The 12-pack in my coat froze. And I'd do it again. Does that make me a diehard? Based on my seats and your definition, I guess not. UGH!!

What's worse? The townie who shows up and leaves with 3 minutes to go and a 10 point lead? Or the die hard fan who stays at home because they got 'stuck' in 212, row F???? Save your venom for the at-home, pouty die hards.

In all probablility, the less die-hard-fans-who feel-screwed-and-stay-home-to-pout-because-the-adminstration-isnt-fair, the better.

Gazoo · #**111** 10-21-2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by tman

I'm not sure who you are directing this too?
I thought we are talking about problems with the method for distributing tickets to students.

I fail to see the comparison.
I don't think money is an issue here (outside of someone wanting the students to buy season tickets).

But perhaps if UD finds itself playing for a national championship numerous times, much like OSU has the last several years--we could-compare athletic issues.

Perhaps a better fit would be Duquene.

You fail to see the comparison because you don't want to.

This is how tOSU does it. Since UD is apparently the only university that screws this up I thought it would be interesting to compare how another university distributes its scarce resource to students.

The horseshoe seats over 100K, with about 27% going to students for football based on class rank, for a hefty fee.

The schot seats 19,200 with about 15% going to students first come / first served, for a stiff fee.

UD gives about 13% of seats to students FOR FREE. As you say yourself, it's not the way the university handles this that has led to a dropoff in student attendance or spirit, it's the fact that we haven't won any national championships lately. Wow, we agree. It's not the administration's fault.

Duquesne? A city with 4 D1 basketball teams and little recent history of success, with the stands mostly empty every night? That's a fair compare in your mind??

How about the top 25 schools in attendance. That's a fair compare. Get real.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #**112** 10-21-2008, 03:03 PM

You earn to sit closer based on the system ... it's flawed as hell, but if you follow the rules you are closer. Its the fact people go without tickets or 3 year students sit up top.

The problem I have is when they are lied to either by the amount of vouchers that would be sold or because alphabetically it doesnt pan out for you. The Red Scare and Athletic Office were very vague and basically lied ... they made it seem like everything was status quo, same as last year. If something changed or they cut the amount of vouchers then tell, just tell people, dont try to fool people.

Student paid vouchers the past 3 years were ALWAYS available you guys, now all of the sudden they arent? Something happened here.

Also ... first come first serve is the best way to do it, they did it for 40 years. When you do it that way and you have a group of 10-12 people someone can ALWAYS make it ... if you force tons of people to go to tons of games not everyone can always make it ... plus its only you going, no one else can pass off an ID with your picture on it.

The fact that we talk about it every year since it exsisted is proof enough that it doesnt work. The fact that people can not get tickets when they are always available is proof enough that someone isn't telling the entire truth.

tman · #**113** 10-21-2008, 03:21 PM

OK gaz--you win------
How could I be so blind--its obvious.
The UD and OSU athletic departments are very much alike.??
Whatever----

Lets see if we can now return to the original discussion on the fairness of ticket distribution for students and leave the I will dispute anything tman says highjacking.

I doubt that the meetings being held to correct the latest screw-up have anything to do with Tosu. ??

Gazoo · #**114** 10-21-2008, 04:30 PM

It's very simple. Everyone agrees mistakes have been made and no system is perfect. Let's see how other schools do it.

I provided one example of a school with a commodity that the paying public wants, but is in scarce supply. (That's a reasonable comparison for UD.) They give about 15% of the tickets to students and make them pay $121 for it on a first come / first served basis.

UD gives about 13% to students for free, the same students who basically leave about 20% of their tickets unused on any night but _avier. Free. Maybe they would show up if they had to pay for them?? Dunno.

I've provided one example of how another university with similar (but never perfect) constraints handles the situation. Please feel free to do the same rather than just yell at people about how stupid they are. I would provide the same statistics for Kentucky, Louisville, St. Louis, and other schools with ROUGHLY similar attendance patterns as UD but I don't have time.

Let's hear it: would UD students prefer to pay $120 for their tickets but get them on a first come / first served basis? Fine by me, I'm not a student.

shocka43 · #**115** 10-21-2008, 04:47 PM

To try and keep this on track....

My season tickets are where they are, not because of a lump sum monetary donation....But because of SENIORITY and my yearly payment. SENIORITY is why I sit where I sit and why I have certain benefits of the Flight Deck that come with the gold ticket. (By the way, which I rarely use)

College housing, at least on campus and at most universities...SENIORITY draws enable upperclassmen that have paid their dues to end up in the best situation.

UD student season tickets....SENIORITY is the best way to do it. Students aren't entitled to anything, and for one I would appreciate good seats at a very discounted rate. My season ticket money will be here in 50 years, your tuition won't. There are many season ticket holders that have given the monetary donations in the form of tuition in the past. Should we Alums be given preference over the faithful season ticket holder who never attended UD, NO.

Who cares if Freshman get ****ed off. If they are true faithful fans, they will appreciate their 400 seats with the option of moving down with SENIORITY. Those that stick it out are going to be your "rabid" fans because they have given their time in the 400's and will appreciate their 100 and 200 level seats when the time comes.

Chris R · #**116** 10-21-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by tman

I doubt that the meetings being held to correct the latest screw-up have anything to do with Tosu. ??

Originally Posted by tman

in college I spent alot of time drinking beer and chasing skirts

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

lilrudy4787 · #**117** 10-21-2008, 05:26 PM

thats deep.

John R · #**118** 10-21-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by tman

Man, you guys are rough on these kids.

Lets remember that the U sold what was once students tickets to fans who wanted to leave following the latest round of increases.

First off ------one poster is confused why the students just don't go out and buy season tickets themselves------confused is the operative word. ??????? Lady ----as a dad who paid for two kids to go to college-----you've got a lot to learn.

Then you got these old foggies that do what they do best---distort reality. No one is demanding front row tickets. Its common place to allow students the RIGHT to see athletic events at a reasonalble rate or free. Many times the student or parents are charged a fee for such activities. ---THIS HAPPENS AT EVERY UNIVERSITY!

When one visits a college that you may be interested in attending---the athletic venues and happenings are a great selling point. Be it hockey, football or in this case basketball. At most places, the student body is treated with plenty of good seats, why? Because its their team. They're paying a hefty price to attend and these are the future supporters of the College and of the athletic program.---

But as you can see here--jealousy and the lack of respect for the individual leads to treating OUR students like a bunch of second rate junior high kids.---ANd they seemed to be lead by a overjealous group of chearleaders.

Sorry---in college I spent alot of time drinking beer and chasing skirts-----the soccer team was way down the list of things to do?---Does that make me a bad person--HELL NO it makes me a normal 20 year old human being.

This university continues to treat supporters like hell----little by little they've ****ed off everyone but John R----be it parking or ticket increases or eliminating student tickets, Or just plain allowing students to see the game----This group just has a terrible time of doing anything right---I mean lets face it------these are a bunch of screw ups.

The fact that the AD department and red scare are meeting numerous times this week to address the problem---proves my point.
It took them five weeks last year to figure out the parking situation--this after 40 years of it not being an issue--LOL
The new ad will need all the help he can get.

Here's an idea--I came up with this while I was banned.
We can ban the students---think of the money the U could make.
Maybe we should ban the white hairs----we hate them----old people are using ALL the oxygen.
Lets ban a section of the arena every game to allow for parking. Finally a place to park!
Lets watch the fans that leave early and BAN em---they don't deserve a ticket!

What right does anyone have to see a UD game. NONE---. You should have to earn a ticket to see UD basketball .
But as we know---some people think they deserve everything.

Lets just ban t-man from the Arena.

Gazoo · #**119** 10-21-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

I hope this adequately answered your question.

Originally Posted by Gazoo

It's very simple. Everyone agrees mistakes have been made and no system is perfect. Let's see how other schools do it.

I provided one example of a school with a commodity that the paying public wants, but is in scarce supply. (That's a reasonable comparison for UD.) They give about 15% of the tickets to students and make them pay $121 for it on a first come / first served basis.

UD gives about 13% to students for free, the same students who basically leave about 20% of their tickets unused on any night but _avier. Free. Maybe they would show up if they had to pay for them?? Dunno.

I've provided one example of how another university with similar (but never perfect) constraints handles the situation. Please feel free to do the same rather than just yell at people about how stupid they are. I would provide the same statistics for Kentucky, Louisville, St. Louis, and other schools with ROUGHLY similar attendance patterns as UD but I don't have time.

Let's hear it: would UD students prefer to pay $120 for their tickets but get them on a first come / first served basis? Fine by me, I'm not a student.

John R · #**120** 10-21-2008, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by smitch425

My name is not "Lady". Secondly, I am nowhere near "confused". I simply said that picking up a few extra hours at work (and paying a little less on alcohol for some people)instead of running all over town picking up spirit points (for something you may or may not get rewarded for) might be a better idea for some.

I have two kids to put through college myself. I don't even want to think of how much it will cost by the time they go to school, and with this economy we've lost a lot of money in their college funds. Don't presume to know what I need to learn and what I don't. Please.

Great post smitch425.
Believe me t-man if anyone is confused about anything its you.
smitch being alot younger then you sure knows alot more then you think you do.

I suggest you be a man apologize to her and any other ladies that post here.

John R · #**121** 10-21-2008, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

What?

smitch425 · #**122** 10-21-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

I gotta admit...When I first tried to read this my eyeballs kept crossing, but I came back a bit later to try again and I now understand it...well...a little

Bill McPeek · #**123** 10-21-2008, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

Meaning.....AFU?

AFflyer · #**124** 10-21-2008, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by smitch425

My name is not "Lady". Secondly, I am nowhere near "confused". I simply said that picking up a few extra hours at work (and paying a little less on alcohol for some people)instead of running all over town picking up spirit points (for something you may or may not get rewarded for) might be a better idea for some.

I have two kids to put through college myself. I don't even want to think of how much it will cost by the time they go to school, and with this economy we've lost a lot of money in their college funds. Don't presume to know what I need to learn and what I don't. Please.

im sorry mommy and daddy didnt pay for my college and I DID work as many hours a week as I could. and for pick up extra hours, after working 4 years in student employment I can tell you there are rules and restrictions about working on campus. That is if your employer will allow you to work the extra hours

then onto tosu...having a girlfriend attend there 4 years and brother in his senior year they go by class rank. you get better seats as you get older. Both have been able to get tickets every season with no problem. Their first years they were upper deck, no big deal to them they just got there. This year she sat in AA as 5th year. senior was block O. basketball was lower arena every year but one. seems fair to let the peolpe who go to the most games of that sport have the best seats. In theory seniors should have the best seats but also have jr, soph, and frosh mixed in

Gazoo · #**125** 10-21-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by AFflyer

im sorry mommy and daddy didnt pay for my college and I DID work as many hours a week as I could. and for pick up extra hours, after working 4 years in student employment I can tell you there are rules and restrictions about working on campus. That is if your employer will allow you to work the extra hours

Interesting. . . I worked off campus most of my 4 years. There were no such restrictions on hours worked. I figured out this radical strategy all by myself.

lilrudy4787 · #**126** 10-21-2008, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Interesting. . . I worked off campus most of my 4 years. There were no such restrictions on hours worked. I figured out this radical strategy all by myself.

students can not work more than 20 hours a week for the university

Flyer2 · #**127** 10-22-2008, 12:41 AM

I camped out for tickets when I was in school. 60's - If we had the "Red Scare" back then I never would of had tickets. I had evening classes, worked part time, and occasionally studied. One semester I was a full time student and a full time employee of Frigidaire. Started work at 3:15 in the afternoon and got out after midnight and home after 1:00. I didn't live on campus after sophomore year so it was drive to everything. Yeah I missed out on a lot of things but I put myself thru school and graduated owing nothing.

Time to go to baseball, softball, volleyball, etc. not a chance! I was on the rifle and pistol team and never saw any fans or expected any fans. The sport was enough.

I'm sure there a quite a few local students that don't have the time for "Spirit Points". They lack the rich parents to fund their spirit as some students have. Locals for the most part live at home and probably have part time jobs.

I gave my kid a choice- he could go to UD and come out owing $40k or he could go to a Wright State and come out owing nothing as I would foot the bill. He is a Wright State grad with a dual degree.

Personally, I feel they should dump the Spirit Points or give them for jobs, classes, or living off campus to be fair.

tman · #**128** 10-22-2008, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Chris R

Derangement through misobservation: The level at which such 'derangement' occurs may be primary or secondary, depending on whether it is due mainly to basic perceptual impairment (such as due to poor eyesight, hearing or in the use of alcohol, drugs, poisons etc. and other causes of abnormal brain functions) or mainly impairment of apperception, such as in faulty interpretations and understanding or in the confusions of one's ideas and attendant emotions.

People with mental disorders can, in all seriousness, sometimes put very unrealistic and fantastic interpretations on fairly commonplace events. However, the judgment that a very unusual interpretation is paranoid derangement or chronic obsession can itself be due to narrowness of vision, lack of knowledge of other cultures and belief-systems etc. Therefore, what appear as deranged interpretations, ought always be taken in, considered seriously and investigated.

here's the key paragraph folks:

However, when the derangement is systematic and obtuse, or is so endemic as to bear no relation to observable behaviour or rational consistency the problem of investigating its origin and embroidery becomes very demanding. This is where the practical demands often lead a therapist to give up and declare that there must be a deep-lying traumatic or basic deprivational cause, and possibly a physical impairment.

So the wife was right all along---son-of-a- ****.
Does this mean I need to see a doctor?

I think its important to at least give credit to the original author.
http://home.no.net/rrpriddy/P/14disorder.html

I would also welcome any original ideas you may have----you know---ones you thought up yourself.

Chris R · #**129** 10-22-2008, 12:42 PM

I would also welcome any original ideas you may have----you know---ones you thought up yourself.

here's one. enjoy your season on another discussion forum.

Furio · #**130** 10-22-2008, 01:00 PM

Tman has left the the building. Again. Like a moth to a burning fire it was just a matter of time.
P.S. Just to clarify I agree with the moderators decision 100%.

GhettoBoy · #**131** 10-22-2008, 01:09 PM

had to be done furio.

i pity whomever runs in the same circle as that guy. 'hey lady' to smitch just proved hes a little boy, not a man. what a tasteless pig-headed comment!! tboy. thats who he is. good riddance. hate life and be perpetually miserable somewhere else.

ive never seen a more unhappy person in my entire life. just being around the guy for 5 minutes must be a total buzz kill.

nice job chris. you lead we follow.

Bill McPeek · #**132** 10-22-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

Tman has left the the building. Again. Like a moth to a burning fire it was just a matter of time.
P.S. Just to clarify I agree with the moderators decision 100%.

Will there be more to follow?

hawkoooo · #**133** 10-22-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by lilrudy4787

students can not work more than 20 hours a week for the university

this may be a rule rudy, but it must not be enforced. i myself have worked more than 20 hours a week several times.

i have ignored posting on this thread because it is outrageous but here is my two cents:

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

btw i am writing this from hawaii (where i am an exchange student for a semester) so i had absolutely no chance of getting student vouchers. therefore i feel bad for NONE of you. really though, isn't it a good thing that all of the vouchers sold out?

Furio · #**134** 10-22-2008, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek

Will there be more to follow?

To recap for viewers who may have missed an earlier episode. Earlier this summer Alex and one of this droogs were sent for reprogramming to a clinic run by Dr. Drew (Celebrity Rehab). Appears now that Dr. Drew may be a quack since Alex has fallen off the wagon so to speak.

IAFlyer · #**135** 10-22-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

To recap for viewers who may have missed an earlier episode. Earlier this summer Alex and one of this droogs were sent for reprogramming to a clinic run by Dr. Drew (Celebrity Rehab). Appears now that Dr. Drew may be a quack since Alex has fallen off the wagon so to speak.

that's the 2nd Clockwork Orange reference I've seen in the last few days.

singlet_of_truth · #**136** 10-22-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by GhettoBoy

had to be done furio.

i pity whomever runs in the same circle as that guy. 'hey lady' to smitch just proved hes a little boy, not a man. what a tasteless pig-headed comment!! tboy. thats who he is. good riddance. hate life and be perpetually miserable somewhere else.

ive never seen a more unhappy person in my entire life. just being around the guy for 5 minutes must be a total buzz kill.

nice job chris. you lead we follow.

I think it is a joke. Sure T-Man was over the top. But this is an internet message board. Get over yourselves. T-Man gets banned but all the people attacking him on a personal leve don't? Why? Because T-Man doesn't like Kissell? Personally I think he adds a contrarian view that should be voiced on here. And while I disagree with a large portion of what he has to say (actually, not so much what he has to say but how he says it), I don't think a ban was warranted.

If you're going to ban T-Man, there are numerous others on the other side of the fence that should also get the same treatment. At least try to maintain some appearance of objectivity.

Gazoo · #**137** 10-22-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

this may be a rule rudy, but it must not be enforced. i myself have worked more than 20 hours a week several times.

i have ignored posting on this thread because it is outrageous but here is my two cents:

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

btw i am writing this from hawaii (where i am an exchange student for a semester) so i had absolutely no chance of getting student vouchers. therefore i feel bad for NONE of you. really though, isn't it a good thing that all of the vouchers sold out?

I think this is a fantastic idea--even though I'm not longer a student and it really doesn't affect me at all.

But, after the last post, I fear this thread is destined for closure soon.

as_4 · #**138** 10-22-2008, 04:53 PM

While this is an internet message board, it usually isn't cool to call out the owner of the site who lets you post basically whatever you want on his site for FREE. What he says goes and if you ask me, Chris lets a lot of things slide.

I think this is a case of 1 person bringing down the whole UDPride community with a negative tone for a very very long time. He has had plenty of chances to change that tone. I have never been upset about what tman would post or his opinion (kind of nice to hear someone who doesn't wear red and blue glasses sometimes), but it was how things were posted. There was no regard for facts or anyone else's opinion without an underlying negativity.

John R · #**139** 10-22-2008, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

I think it is a joke. Sure T-Man was over the top. But this is an internet message board. Get over yourselves. T-Man gets banned but all the people attacking him on a personal leve don't? Why? Because T-Man doesn't like Kissell? Personally I think he adds a contrarian view that should be voiced on here. And while I disagree with a large portion of what he has to say (actually, not so much what he has to say but how he says it), I don't think a ban was warranted.

If you're going to ban T-Man, there are numerous others on the other side of the fence that should also get the same treatment. At least try to maintain some appearance of objectivity.

If you're that unhappy about it may be you and t-man can PM each other.

John R · #**140** 10-22-2008, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by tman

So the wife was right all along---son-of-a- ****.
Does this mean I need to see a doctor?

I think its important to at least give credit to the original author.
http://home.no.net/rrpriddy/P/14disorder.html

I would also welcome any original ideas you may have----you know---ones you thought up yourself.

I will answer your question for you. Yes you do need to see a doctor.

GetFlyeredup · #**141** 10-22-2008, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

this may be a rule rudy, but it must not be enforced. i myself have worked more than 20 hours a week several times.

i have ignored posting on this thread because it is outrageous but here is my two cents:

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

btw i am writing this from hawaii (where i am an exchange student for a semester) so i had absolutely no chance of getting student vouchers. therefore i feel bad for NONE of you. really though, isn't it a good thing that all of the vouchers sold out?

Best post of the thread, this is the solution. But I'm afraid it will be lost in the name calling.

singlet_of_truth · #**142** 10-22-2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by John R

If you're that unhappy about it may be you and t-man can PM each other.

This is interesting coming from a man who knows a thing or two about being banned from message boards. What?

UDBaller · #**143** 10-22-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by John R

If you're that unhappy about it may be you and t-man can PM each other.

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

This is interesting coming from a man who knows a thing or two about being banned from message boards. What?

D**m you made me spit Pepsi all over my computer!!

John R · #**144** 10-22-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

This is interesting coming from a man who knows a thing or two about being banned from message boards. What?

At least I don't hide behind my name.

John R · #**145** 10-22-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

This is interesting coming from a man who knows a thing or two about being banned from message boards. What?

And what is wrong if you two are sending a pm to each other?

You say messages boards.

I know of one and since you say you're a singlet_of_truth what message boards are they?

shocka43 · #**146** 10-22-2008, 07:21 PM

My daddy can beat your daddy up.....

In this nonsense and personal name calling have we come up with a solution to the student ticket issue?

allflyernamesaregone · #**147** 10-22-2008, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by shocka43

My daddy can beat your daddy up.....

In this nonsense and personal name calling have we come up with a solution to the student ticket issue?

As soon as the AD approves it (more of an when issue rather than if), it will be announced. I would guess it will be announced by no later than Friday.

lilrudy4787 · #**148** 10-22-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

this may be a rule rudy, but it must not be enforced. i myself have worked more than 20 hours a week several times.

i have ignored posting on this thread because it is outrageous but here is my two cents:

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

btw i am writing this from hawaii (where i am an exchange student for a semester) so i had absolutely no chance of getting student vouchers. therefore i feel bad for NONE of you. really though, isn't it a good thing that all of the vouchers sold out?

yes hawkoo, it is a rule...but u are right, it is seldom enforced.

And with your points, you know i agree with you on them...it should be seniority based

allflyernamesaregone · #**149** 10-22-2008, 07:47 PM

In terms of senority, sophmores, juniors, and seniors could have attended the two baseball/softball games last season to have a point advantage over freshman.

AFflyer · #**150** 10-22-2008, 09:25 PM

thats far from the point they were making about seniority, and that doesnt work. after my jr year i didnt have any points because they were "lost". The scanner didnt scan them right. different excuses. Red scare would lose their head if it wasnt attached

zmz723 · #**151** 10-23-2008, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by AFflyer

thats far from the point they were making about seniority, and that doesnt work. after my jr year i didnt have any points because they were "lost". The scanner didnt scan them right. different excuses. Red scare would lose their head if it wasnt attached

thats another thing. 95% of the time the spirit points are wrong. I tried correcting them last year, but the red scare didn't answer back or change it so I just gave up. Its a decent idea but with just absolutely miserable execution.

rollo · #**152** 10-23-2008, 07:07 AM

Is Red Scare operated by ACORN?

flyerfanatic86 · #**153** 10-23-2008, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

I tend to agree that this is the best solution. Points, IMO, should be for basketball only. Students who have other commitments (be it work, service activities, extra curriculars, or five majors) would be punished and rewarded based on their commitment to the basketball team and not based on their inability to run the three different sporting events in one night. I also found it particularly sad that when we went to a road game last year, some of the students I traveled with had to email Red Scare and beg for points that they were missing. They were going to be punished for traveling to a basketball game and missing a volleyball game, which doesn't seem to fit the spirit of the rule. And cumulative points would definitely be the way to go, rewarding those who have supported the team four (or five+) years with the best seats.

224 L St · #**154** 10-23-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by hawkoooo

this may be a rule rudy, but it must not be enforced. i myself have worked more than 20 hours a week several times.

i have ignored posting on this thread because it is outrageous but here is my two cents:

1. instead of making other events worth more than basketball, make basketball worth the most spirit points. therefore it is a sort of punishment to miss a bball game, that you can make up for by gathering points at other sporting events.
2. accumulate the points by year. this way, a junior or senior who has consistently gone to bball games and other events will be rewarded for his time, and the freshman will feel more obligated to go to every bball game they can so that they have good seats when they are upperclassmen.

btw i am writing this from hawaii (where i am an exchange student for a semester) so i had absolutely no chance of getting student vouchers. therefore i feel bad for NONE of you. really though, isn't it a good thing that all of the vouchers sold out?

1. i did the chaminade exchange last semester and it was the best thing i've ever done. the Fat Greek down on Waialae and st. louis has the best gyros.

2. that is the best solution i've heard. i'm a senior who missed out on the vouchers, so i may be a little biased

3. when i left last year i had attended all the home games and the Flyers were 13-1 and ranked somewhere near #20 in the country. i feel it only fair to blame me for last season's collapse.

hawkoooo · #**155** 10-23-2008, 02:57 PM

i am sad i will be missing the first half of what looks to be a historic season, but i wouldn't trade places with anyone in the world right now. i have not tried that greek place but know where it is so i will def check it out. i LOVE saint louis (and rainbow of course).

internet is awful here so we are going to huddle up around a computer in the library to watch flyer games in the afternoon!

Furio · #**156** 10-25-2008, 12:45 PM

Here is the revised plan:

http://www.udaytonredscare.com/resolution.php

Chris R · #**157** 11-16-2008, 03:37 PM

Eric Knapke, the hoops chair of the Red Scare, will be on Flyer Feedback tonight after the Wofford game. Here's your chance to post your questions and comments. Please do so in the WHIO sticky at the top of the forum.