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Old 03-30-2015, 01:05 AM
undercoverfriar undercoverfriar is offline
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Providence fan here...

And I just wanted to say that I truly respect the hell out of Dayton and their basketball program, a very underrated program and fanbase that in my opinion doesn't get enough recognition, I have been watching Dayton play for the past 2 seasons and think UD Arena is a top 15 toughest place to play in the country and Scootchie Smith maybe the best name in sports along with Coco Crisp.
That being said, I have been reading the boards here ever since the game in Colombus last week and i don't understand all the hate for the "Big Least"
Amd then another thread saying the big east; the key to getting in... Just curious, why the hate on the NBE? Sure we are no old big east(no comference is and ever will be, its the best cbb conference in the history of cbb) but if you compare us to the competiton of conferences today instead of compairing it to the OBE(which isnt fair) I truly believe it is still a top 5 conference.
One thing ourf ans have been whining about is the fact that Dayton got to play close to home, if you ask me it's blah blah blah. YOU'RE IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. WE COULD PLAY ON THE MOON FOR ALL I CARE. PC didnt play well. Dayton did. End of story
Now, i did feel that dayton was severely underseeded as i saw them as an 8 or 9 on SS. But instead they gett an 11 and a home game(whichc they didnt ask for and I'm sure with your lack of depth this season and going deep in the a10 tourney you would have liked to avoid Dayton. But Archie Miller is a great coach whose players reflect off the type of coach he is, tough. And they beat boise st.
Now I understand the first four has been in dayton for about 5 years now but the real problem was after Dayton that people were complaining about. An 11 seed should not be playing close to home based in how the tournament is structured
Kentucky and Duke played close to home because they are one seeds. Thats the way the tournament is set up. Last year you beat cuse on the road(which I loved because I HATE cuse) when they were a 3 seed in Buffalo
The higher the seed the more the love in terms of location. UD was the last team in and 11 seed and got 1 seed treatment playing in Columbus. Thats whats all the fuss is about
And another thing. I hate Xavier. I feel UD should be in the NBE more than them and here are my reasons.
1) tougher place to play
2) their postseason success(elite 8 and round of 32 for UD)(X got 2 cupcakes and went to sweet 16, Ole miss and ga. State. Such a tough road...)
3) I HATE JALEN REYNOLDS HES A MORONIC PUNK
4) their fans poked fun at our coach ed cooley when he walked off the floor after a near heart attack during a game at the cimtas center. Look it up. Simply classless.
5) they have the most delusional fans with a mediocre team. EVER. they sound lime a bunch of whiny little kids when they lose
6) I LOVE DAYTON;their tough, scrappy and never quit. i love archie miller too, hes a great coach and the NBE screwed up and put the wrong team from ohio
All in all i wish you guys the best down the road. Go friars and flyers!
Sorry for the typos, its 1:05am. Cut me some slack
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:19 AM
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Hey, Undercover. Welcome to the board.

I'll let others address some of the other comments you made. I'll focus on the tournament seeding/location because it looks like there's something about it that you didn't realize. But first, you are correct in that everyone knows Dayton didn't deserve an 11 seed period much less a play-in 11. The NCAA screwed 2 teams over more than anyone else and didn't give a rat's arse about it - Boise St. and Dayton.

It amazes me that Dayton's accomplishments were overshadowed so much by where the games were being played. Hi. Dayton didn't schedule these games, the NCAA did! And again, we never should have been in the PiG to begin with. But, with few exceptions like Seth Davis, nobody was sticking up for Dayton but rather practically "accusing" us of having preferential treatment.

You said it yourself. A deep run in the A10 Tournament including one of the LAST games of Selection Sunday. Couple that with a 6-scholarship team plus a walk-on-turned-scholarship player. The ONE team in the COUNTRY that couldn't afford to have to play again just 2 or 3 days after the A10 Championship Game was the Dayton Flyers. Please make sure the other PC fans understand that.

Here's the part that you probably didn't even realize. I didn't know this myself until someone posted an article about it. There were only 2 possible locations for the 11-seed PiG winner to go to from Dayton. One was Jacksonville, the other Columbus. Of the four teams sent to the March 17 & 18 PiGs in Dayton, here are the dates of their last conference tourney games: March 10th (BYU), 12th (Ole Miss), 13th (Boise), 15th (Dayton). There was no way the Selection Committee could have forced Dayton to play on Tuesday the 17th with one day of rest after having played 3 straight days (although having them play 5 games in 8 days by the time of the Providence game was no problem in the Committee's eyes).

Now for the most interesting part. As you recall the only 2 locations to receive the 11-seed winners out of Dayton were Jacksonville and Columbus. Well, it was also set in stone that Jacksonville's games were Thursday/Saturday while Columbus' were Friday/Sunday. As mentioned, there was no way that Dayton could have been made to play on Tuesday in Dayton so, as a result, they played in the Wednesday game that fed Columbus and #6 Providence as it turned out.

The slimy Selection Committee put Boise St in a mess, Providence in a mess, and Oklahoma in a mess simply because the Dayton Flyers did what they did all year: took a hopeless situation and made everyone else pay for it. The NCAA and its Selection Committee should be ashamed of what they did to all of the teams involved.

So, since you're already in agreement with most of the feelings on this board, I hope you learned something about the seeds and locations and I trust you'll take this news back to the PC board. They are more than welcome to join the Flyer Faithful in speaking out about the despicable acts of the NCAA, Scott Barnes, and the 2015 Selection Committee.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:32 AM
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Also Red, If they put Ole Miss/BYU in the Wednesday slot, they risk BYU having to play on Sunday. Something they will not do. They were forced to put us in the Wednesday slot, thus the Columbus slot because of BYU.
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:07 AM
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All I can say is that there was a HUGE difference between how the Boise State fans, coaches and administration handled getting put in a tough situation versus how the Providence fans (present company excluded), coaches and administration handled it. Boise State earned a ton of respect in my eyes, Providence not so much.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
And another thing. I hate Xavier. I feel UD should be in the NBE more than them and here are my reasons.
1) tougher place to play
2) their postseason success(elite 8 and round of 32 for UD)(X got 2 cupcakes and went to sweet 16, Ole miss and ga. State. Such a tough road...)
3) I HATE JALEN REYNOLDS HES A MORONIC PUNK
4) their fans poked fun at our coach ed cooley when he walked off the floor after a near heart attack during a game at the cimtas center. Look it up. Simply classless.
5) they have the most delusional fans with a mediocre team. EVER. they sound lime a bunch of whiny little kids when they lose
6) I LOVE DAYTON;their tough, scrappy and never quit. i love archie miller too, hes a great coach and the NBE screwed up and put the wrong team from ohio
All in all i wish you guys the best down the road. Go friars and flyers!
Sorry for the typos, its 1:05am. Cut me some slack
This is hilarious. Did you really mention postseason success as a reason why Xavier SHOULDN'T be in the BE?

The BE should probably replace PC and add UD if you're talking about postseason success.

And quit making stuff up about Xavier fans. Cooley DID NOT have a near heart attack.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:34 AM
undercoverfriar undercoverfriar is offline
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Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
This is hilarious. Did you really mention postseason success as a reason why Xavier SHOULDN'T be in the BE?

The BE should probably replace PC and add UD if you're talking about postseason success.

And quit making stuff up about Xavier fans. Cooley DID NOT have a near heart attack.
1) I mentioned postseason success as a reason why Dayton should be over Xavier based on the last two years and their postseason performances. Obviously Dayton is better the last 2 years considering eventhough they went to the sweet 16 this year they got two games Dayton and Providence could have handled Ga. State and Ole miss. Somebody pinch me.
2) I was at the Cintas Center the day Cooley left. A source close to him told me he went to the hospital for high blood pressure and had a near heart attack. He had weight reduction surgery in July of 2013 and has lost massive weight causing his diet to change dramatically so yes he did have a near heart attack
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:36 AM
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Undercover,
I'll add another point. I believe it is entirely possible that the committee put Dayton in Dayton to prove a point and open some doors, only it backfired.
They have been saying since the inception of the First Four that they would put us in Dayton if need be. By putting us in the first round, playing our 4th game in 6 days against a very tough Boise St, they believed we would lose. Then they could say "Look, Dayton lost in Dayton with their great fan support", and it would open the door for them to let "preferred programs" play on their home floor in the early rounds.
Problem is, we won. And as our coach said after, "If this is where they want to put us, this is what they are going to have to put up with (criticism).
When our numbers were reduced and we had the "magnificent seven" the coaches and team motto became "No Excuses". They coached and played their hearts out and earned a trip to the NCAA and a better seed than the play-in 11, but they did not complain. They held their heads high and gave it everything they had left.
We did not get positive preferential treatment, just the opposite.
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:40 AM
undercoverfriar undercoverfriar is offline
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Undercover,
I'll add another point. I believe it is entirely possible that the committee put Dayton in Dayton to prove a point and open some doors, only it backfired.
They have been saying since the inception of the First Four that they would put us in Dayton if need be. By putting us in the first round, playing our 4th game in 6 days against a very tough Boise St, they believed we would lose. Then they could say "Look, Dayton lost in Dayton with their great fan support", and it would open the door for them to let "preferred programs" play on their home floor in the early rounds.
Problem is, we won. And as our coach said after, "If this is where they want to put us, this is what they are going to have to put up with (criticism).
When our numbers were reduced and we had the "magnificent seven" the coaches and team motto became "No Excuses". They coached and played their hearts out and earned a trip to the NCAA and a better seed than the play-in 11, but they did not complain. They held their heads high and gave it everything they had left.
We did not get positive preferential treatment, just the opposite.
I agree. Absolutely screwed by Selection committee at least a 9 seed in my eyes. Possibly a 7 or 8 no way an 11 play in
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Old 03-30-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
This is hilarious.
XFactor...trolling the world wide web, looking for injustices against Xavier and setting them straight...since the days of Romain Sato!
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:03 AM
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A Xavier - Providence ****ing match on a UD board, I'd say we've arrived

The hate for the Big "(L)east" goes back to well before the new formation, though I think it had far less to do with Syracuse, St Johns, Nova, GTown or any of the east coast, original teams, more to do with the Marquettes of the world who used to be a rival and were part of the group that left UD behind when they departed the Great Midwest. Despite UD beating them 4 out of the last 5 times or something along those lines, seems like they hold a decent amount of disdain for UD. The hatred continues today, though to be honest, I think most would be thrilled if UD accepted an invitation to the Big East. However, I think most have come to realize that the A10, as currently situated is more than fine. The only fear, at least in my eyes, is the potential departure of SLU, VCU, Richmond, and/or UMass due to either football aspirations (UMass) or Big East expansion. Should UD get left behind, that would be a huge blow to the conference, and leave UD with little in the way of rivalries.

Moving on to the PC game, I think what left most UD fans with a bad taste in their mouth was the seemingly lack of credit given to UD. From Gotlieb to Cooley to many PC/Big East fans, all you heard was how PC played a terrible game, one of their worst, the officiating was terrible and it simply wasn't fair that they had to play UD an hour away from campus. While playing in Columbus is a fair enough gripe, the early Tech on Dunn is an automatic call anytime an elbow goes to the head, no matter if its intentional or not (and it wasn't), the last T on Cooley was earned on his part, and there has been more than one occasion that stated it was the turning point of the game, which couldn't be further from the truth. UD had the ball and an 8 point lead coming out of that timeout.

But put all that aside, I doubt there is a coach in America that would have traded their position in the NCAA tournament for UD's position knowing that they would have to do so without a player over 6'6" and coming in on so little rest with only 6 scholarship players. Rather than people crediting UD for tough nosed defense, not giving into excuses all season long and forging a way to success despite the obstacles, far too many focused in on the location of the game.

anyhoo, thanks for checking in, always appreciated a thoughtful analysis from the opposite side of the scorers table.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
And I just wanted to say that I truly respect the hell out of Dayton and their basketball program, a very underrated program and fanbase that in my opinion doesn't get enough recognition, I have been watching Dayton play for the past 2 seasons and think UD Arena is a top 15 toughest place to play in the country and Scootchie Smith maybe the best name in sports along with Coco Crisp.
That being said, I have been reading the boards here ever since the game in Colombus last week and i don't understand all the hate for the "Big Least"
Amd then another thread saying the big east; the key to getting in... Just curious, why the hate on the NBE? Sure we are no old big east(no comference is and ever will be, its the best cbb conference in the history of cbb) but if you compare us to the competiton of conferences today instead of compairing it to the OBE(which isnt fair) I truly believe it is still a top 5 conference.
We do not hate the NBE. We just feel that we were slighted by not getting invited during the first go around. When you look at our resume, as an institution, and the success of all of our men's and women's teams, we would be in the upper half of the NBE without a doubt. What adds to the frustration are all of the conspiracy theories about why we are not in the NBE. Others will probably expand on this. Now, we have to sit and wait until the NBE expands again, and see if we get in. When will that be? Will we get in? Who knows.
Is the NBE a top 5 conference? I think that remains to be seen. Last year the A10 got more teams into the tourney than the NBE. This year it was the other way around. To be an elite conference, I think you need to consistently get 5-6 teams in every year. Go Flyers!
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:25 AM
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And the Providence fans (not including the OP) simply have to be some of the stupidest people on the face of the earth whining about officiating....Foul totals for the game were at 13 a piece and UD was down 6-2 in fouls for the 2nd half at the time of the technical thrown on Cooley with less than 4 minutes to go..

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Old 03-30-2015, 09:27 AM
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If Jordan Sibert doesn't hit the dagger 3pt shot, Providence gets beat by 13 by Boise State and all this noise goes away.

Boise to Columbus is 3x the miles as Providence to Columbus. No "home" crowd for BSU, except maybe for a few thousand Flyer fans who would be rooting for BSU.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
If Jordan Sibert doesn't hit the dagger 3pt shot, Providence gets beat by 13 by Boise State and all this noise goes away.

Boise to Columbus is 3x the miles as Providence to Columbus. No "home" crowd for BSU, except maybe for a few thousand Flyer fans who would be rooting for BSU.
I think it's a different game for PC if we played Boise, I think we could have beaten them, not easily, but I wouldn't say a 13 point loss like to Dayton
PC really did not play well, Dunn picked up 2 early fouls and the offense was stagnant but credit Dayton, they did play well and kicked our a$$
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:09 AM
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All these complaints about Dayton playing in Columbus and not a peep about Kentucky playing in Louisville. How long had it been since Dayton played at the Nationwide Arena in Columbus vs Ky playing at the Louisville arena where they play once every year.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:24 AM
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UK was the 1 seed. They are SUPPOSED to get the closest venue that's not their home court. All 1-4 seeds are supposed to get that treatment if a suitable spot is available. Sometimes, spots run out, like 4-Georgetown in Portland this year or 4-Dayton in Spokane.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
All these complaints about Dayton playing in Columbus and not a peep about Kentucky playing in Louisville. How long had it been since Dayton played at the Nationwide Arena in Columbus vs Ky playing at the Louisville arena where they play once every year.
That is because 1 seeds are supposed to get those breaks, 11 seeds are not. Like or not, that is the way things are set up. It has happened in the past where the better seeded team had to play a worse seed on what could be construed to be a more home court for the worse seed but not that often.

The fact is Providence just plain got beat. There are a bunch of whys - coaching, preparation, players - but the seemingly home crowd was more of a evener of things based upon the schedule the Flyers had to play.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:35 PM
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Dayton had a home court in Memphis against Florida last year. It would have a home court most places it played Providence. There were a lot of Dayton fans buying up tickets in the Providence section. That's on the fans of Providence, not Dayton. Having it an hour down the road obviously added a few thousand to the stands, but there was going to be a major difference in fan support regardless.

x fans are funny, while simultaneously the worst. They don't want to talk about the all time UD/x record, and now they don't want to talk about the teams the past two years.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:53 PM
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The hate has historical roots

Friar,

As Medford alluded above, there's a visceral dislike based on things that happened long ago. Medford already touched on the Great Midwest situation, but Dayton's participation in that conference was born out of home-home scheduling agreements between Dayton, Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame back in the 80s. This strategic scheduling alliance gave these "Great Independents" the ability to fill their schedules with quality opponents during the early phase of conference consolidation. Dayton considered these programs (and others such as Xavier) as both peers and partners. That perception was apparently one way as all (including our longest running rival Xavier) have systematically eliminated UD from their schedules, overtly communicating that UD is not a peer program. We've had series with other NBE teams in the recent past (split with Nova in 01-02; split with Creighton in 06-07; split with SHU in 10-11), but typically it seems the Big East ducks us. I don't think most UD fans hate Providence or the others (maybe G-town & Nova due to their arrogance), but there's guilt by association.

UD tends to play with a chip on their shoulder (and our fans salivate) when an opportunity to play a Big East team arises. We'd love to have the opportunity to do it more often, that's all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayto...27s_basketball
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
Dayton had a home court in Memphis against Florida last year. It would have a home court most places it played Providence. There were a lot of Dayton fans buying up tickets in the Providence section. That's on the fans of Providence, not Dayton. Having it an hour down the road obviously added a few thousand to the stands, but there was going to be a major difference in fan support regardless.

x fans are funny, while simultaneously the worst. They don't want to talk about the all time UD/x record, and now they don't want to talk about the teams the past two years.
I think that it's unfair to say it's on the fans of Providence for the difference in fans... We had a 2 hour flight to your 1 hour drive... But saying there would be a major difference in fan support regardless is a bit extreme, let's say we played in Portland? Or Seattle?
Or even in the Carrier Dome in NY(where we would have had more fans IMO because NY is actually filled with Friar fans and it's a 4 hour drive from Providence) I think Columbus was the only place where Dayton's support would be that strong
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:00 PM
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And on behalf of our fans, I have faced the truth, they're awful, ask the 9 other BE teams and they will tell you the Dunkin' Donuts Center is the most rude place to play by a long shot. But there are plenty good of us, but way more bad. Think of it this way;
We are New England sports fans, we love the Red Sox, the Pats, the Bruins, and the Celtics, and PCBB. NE sports fans are historically obnoxious and rude, if you ever go to Fenway Park, everyone on the other team is a "losah"
At PC games, the officiating is always awful if we shoot 50FT and the other teams shoots 2, it's just the way people up here are brought up as fans
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
I think that it's unfair to say it's on the fans of Providence for the difference in fans... We had a 2 hour flight to your 1 hour drive... But saying there would be a major difference in fan support regardless is a bit extreme, let's say we played in Portland? Or Seattle?
Or even in the Carrier Dome in NY(where we would have had more fans IMO because NY is actually filled with Friar fans and it's a 4 hour drive from Providence) I think Columbus was the only place where Dayton's support would be that strong
Dayton fans travel incredibly well, even when our team stinks. Now that we're doing well, you see it even more. Providence didn't have many more fans in Columbus than we had in Maui this season (which is a bit of a trek from Dayton, Ohio). I have no doubt that we would have more fans in Portland, Seattle, or even Syracuse. We outnumbered Ohio State fans in Buffalo last season, and they have us beat a bit when it comes to alumni. And our fans that travel don't go to sit on their hands, either, making it sound like there are even more there. It's not a dig against Providence (ok, it is a little because I was a little shocked at how few made the trip to Columbus and how quiet they were for the most part), but more representative of our fan base.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post

... I don't think most UD fans hate Providence or the others (maybe G-town & Nova due to their arrogance), but there's guilt by association.
Hate is a strong word. I dislike quite a few teams and I have added Providence to that list.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:51 PM
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We could play in Nome, Alaska and I would bet there were be good number of the Flyer Faithful present
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:13 PM
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Dayton to Memphis 535 miles.
Gainesville to Memphis 714 miles.

Enrollment: Dayton 11,000
Florida 52,000

We had em outnumbered in Memphis 7-3 and the stands were almost full (capacity ~24,000). Dayton fans travel, especially if we can drive to it. We usually have the largest attendance at any holiday tournament (San Juan this year, Maui last year, and that included beating out west-coast Gonzaga). We put the second most fans in Brooklyn in a league filled with northeast schools.

If the Dayton-Providence game had been played in Jacksonville, we would have had 3-4000 in the stands. Nowhere near Columbus numbers, but still enough to dominate the crowd. The Providence contingent in Columbus numbered in the hundreds.

Finally, as a 6 seed, Providence was not entitled to geographic protection. That is reserved for top-4 seeds.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
And I just wanted to say that I truly respect the hell out of Dayton and their basketball program, a very underrated program and fanbase that in my opinion doesn't get enough recognition, I have been watching Dayton play for the past 2 seasons and think UD Arena is a top 15 toughest place to play in the country and Scootchie Smith maybe the best name in sports along with Coco Crisp.
That being said, I have been reading the boards here ever since the game in Colombus last week and i don't understand all the hate for the "Big Least"
Amd then another thread saying the big east; the key to getting in... Just curious, why the hate on the NBE? Sure we are no old big east(no comference is and ever will be, its the best cbb conference in the history of cbb) but if you compare us to the competiton of conferences today instead of compairing it to the OBE(which isnt fair) I truly believe it is still a top 5 conference.
One thing ourf ans have been whining about is the fact that Dayton got to play close to home, if you ask me it's blah blah blah. YOU'RE IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. WE COULD PLAY ON THE MOON FOR ALL I CARE. PC didnt play well. Dayton did. End of story
Now, i did feel that dayton was severely underseeded as i saw them as an 8 or 9 on SS. But instead they gett an 11 and a home game(whichc they didnt ask for and I'm sure with your lack of depth this season and going deep in the a10 tourney you would have liked to avoid Dayton. But Archie Miller is a great coach whose players reflect off the type of coach he is, tough. And they beat boise st.
Now I understand the first four has been in dayton for about 5 years now but the real problem was after Dayton that people were complaining about. An 11 seed should not be playing close to home based in how the tournament is structured
Kentucky and Duke played close to home because they are one seeds. Thats the way the tournament is set up. Last year you beat cuse on the road(which I loved because I HATE cuse) when they were a 3 seed in Buffalo
The higher the seed the more the love in terms of location. UD was the last team in and 11 seed and got 1 seed treatment playing in Columbus. Thats whats all the fuss is about
And another thing. I hate Xavier. I feel UD should be in the NBE more than them and here are my reasons.
1) tougher place to play
2) their postseason success(elite 8 and round of 32 for UD)(X got 2 cupcakes and went to sweet 16, Ole miss and ga. State. Such a tough road...)
3) I HATE JALEN REYNOLDS HES A MORONIC PUNK
4) their fans poked fun at our coach ed cooley when he walked off the floor after a near heart attack during a game at the cimtas center. Look it up. Simply classless.
5) they have the most delusional fans with a mediocre team. EVER. they sound lime a bunch of whiny little kids when they lose
6) I LOVE DAYTON;their tough, scrappy and never quit. i love archie miller too, hes a great coach and the NBE screwed up and put the wrong team from ohio
All in all i wish you guys the best down the road. Go friars and flyers!
Sorry for the typos, its 1:05am. Cut me some slack

Undercover-------Welcome!

Won't deal with most of the issues that you raised in light of many of those posts above have already done so.....

Just know that most UD fans are pretty friendly!

All forums have a couple folks who would be better served finding another team to follow-----NO ONE on hear speaks for all flyer fans, the majority of Flyers fans etc. The majority of our fans are great college basketball fans!

We love our Flyers---love our hoops and know our college basketball!

Please don't let yourself be offended by any one or two people who may post-----every, every forum has there "share" including the holy land and all other forums!

As you know, the X fans are the most insecure bunch you'll ever see (especially given there ongoing success in the tournament) and most if not all of that get's directed at UD and UD fans------so be it! It's good that they win a lot of basketball games--------take a look at ALL other "factors" most often mentioned when expansion is at issue (endowment, national/regional University, Phd programs, Research dollars etc.) and it's clear that they spend enough on basketball but very little on much else---------lots of financial issues as well as enrollment issues that they just can't seem to get a handle on!

Many of us would love to play Georgetown, Nova', Marquette and yes Providence each year---but that is NOT up to UD.

Many/most of us are rather sensitive about the NBE on some levels......and reading the holy land board occasionally makes us wonder why we'd want to be affiliated with the likes of several of the programs (at least some of there "fans")----but many of us still would love the opportunity!

We are a more perfect fit institutionally than several of the teams already in.......and our basketball (Men's elite 8--14', and women's elite 8 game tonight against UCONN) as well as most of our other sports would do very well in the NBE already! It's clear that Archie is the real deal------and we know it!

Many of the X fans---------continue to "pray" that he leaves ASAP------who would have thunk that! LOL

Please come back! We won't "bite" despite what the X fans spew! Good luck going forward!
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Hate is a strong word. I dislike quite a few teams and I have added Providence to that list.
I'm with you except not sure that 80% of the angst might be directed at Cooley. The Providence players were Eagle scouts next to UC and X. Providence coach jumped on the whining early and never took his foot off the pedal. He'll be tripping all summer.
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
Dayton fans travel incredibly well, even when our team stinks. Now that we're doing well, you see it even more. Providence didn't have many more fans in Columbus than we had in Maui this season (which is a bit of a trek from Dayton, Ohio). I have no doubt that we would have more fans in Portland, Seattle, or even Syracuse. We outnumbered Ohio State fans in Buffalo last season, and they have us beat a bit when it comes to alumni. And our fans that travel don't go to sit on their hands, either, making it sound like there are even more there. It's not a dig against Providence (ok, it is a little because I was a little shocked at how few made the trip to Columbus and how quiet they were for the most part), but more representative of our fan base.
When I attended the USC game in SoCal a couple of years ago, there were easily several hundred UD fans in attendance. We made our voices heard and stunned the local fans. Same thing happened at Pepperdine back in 2003 (met SDFlyer there). We outnumbered Fordham fans at Rose Hill this past January (and serenaded bewildered NYC subway riders after the game to "Gooooo Dayton Fly-ers!!!!!"). Flyer Faithful is a well earned moniker for our fan base.
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
We could play in Nome, Alaska and I would bet there were be good number of the Flyer Faithful present

Get up for it...



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Old 03-30-2015, 04:07 PM
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I've been a Big Least hater since UD joined the A-10. For many years, the two leagues shared the same footprint. Except for Dayton, the A-10 school played 2nd fiddle (sometimes 3rd or 4th fiddle) to the Big East team. So I take great pleasure when an A-10 team knocks off a Big Least foe. . Add that to being left out of the BE realignment and there are some hard feelings around here. I think just about all of us - me included - would rather have been part of the New Big East, but there really isn't anything wrong with the A-10 so it's not the end of the world. The big solace UD fans can take out of all of this, if you look back over the last 10 years, UD owns that league. What's funny is back in the 1980's I used to love to watch the BE on TV

As far as UD playing in the First Four, it may well not be the last time. The guy who runs this site participated in this year's mock selection. If you click on the find articles tab on the home page, you can find all five articles he wrote about the experience. They are very informative about how teams are selected and seeded. Here is the one that pertains to UD playing in the First Four, but if you are the college hoops junkie I suspect you are, you will like the whole series.

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26969

Last edited by The Gem; 03-30-2015 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:29 PM
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I wonder if Flyer fans shouldn't be thankful for our recent 20 years of futility. The reasons are many and horrible luck played a part. But it built up so much angst, so much "little man's syndrome," so much of a chip on our shoulder that we are now the best pound-for-pound traveling team in the entire country.
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:53 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
. . . And another thing. I hate Xavier. I feel UD should be in the NBE more than them and here are my reasons.
1) tougher place to play
2) their postseason success(elite 8 and round of 32 for UD)(X got 2 cupcakes and went to sweet 16, Ole miss and ga. State. Such a tough road...)
3) I HATE JALEN REYNOLDS HES A MORONIC PUNK
4) their fans poked fun at our coach ed cooley when he walked off the floor after a near heart attack during a game at the cimtas center. Look it up. Simply classless.
5) they have the most delusional fans with a mediocre team. EVER. they sound lime a bunch of whiny little kids when they lose
6) I LOVE DAYTON;their tough, scrappy and never quit. i love archie miller too, hes a great coach and the NBE screwed up and put the wrong team from ohio
All in all i wish you guys the best down the road. Go friars and flyers!
Sorry for the typos, its 1:05am. Cut me some slack
Originally Posted by XFactor View Post
This is hilarious. Did you really mention postseason success as a reason why Xavier SHOULDN'T be in the BE?

The BE should probably replace PC and add UD if you're talking about postseason success.

And quit making stuff up about Xavier fans. Cooley DID NOT have a near heart attack.

Sooo . . . a Providence fan and a Xavier fan walk into a bar . . .
Never mind - just know it wasn't pretty.

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Old 03-30-2015, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Sooo . . . a Providence fan and a Xavier fan walk into a bar . . .
Never mind - just know it wasn't pretty.

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What kind of "whine" we're they drinking?
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Old 03-30-2015, 07:11 PM
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Undercoverfriar, speaking only for myself, I harbored no animosity toward Providence until I started reading the posts on the PC message board that talked about how the refs decided the game, etc., etc. And even now, the only animosity I have toward PC is directed at those fans who couldn't see that Cooley and his staff simply didn't have the Friars prepared for our game. I mean, PC started a 7'0" center when our tallest guys were all 6'6", and that seven-footer got-off exactly 0 shots in 22 minutes on the court against us. I know the Friars' offense this season ran through Dunn & Henton, but seriously? No shots in over half a game of action? From the 3rd or 4th leading scorer on the team? And I know you "get it", but a lot of posters on the PC MB apparently don't.

Regarding the Big East as a whole, yes, many of us are bitter. We're bitter toward Georgetown, who has only played us 3 times, the last of which was a "forced" meeting in 1984, in that year's Elite 8. We're bitter toward Marquette, who seemed to be the driving force behind adding Creighton instead of UD (or even SLU, one of their supposed "Jesuit brethren") - a little of that "conspiracy theory" there. We're slightly bitter toward St. John's, who hasn't played us in 41 years. But mostly, we're bitter toward X, which is an hour down the road, with whom we thought we had a rivalry, but who (rumor has it - more "conspiracy theory" there) lobbied to keep us out of the BE.

Some of that last "bitter" is borne of jealousy. I mean, until these last 2 years, they outperformed us in the postseason for an entire generation. But a big part of it is anger, because we've kicked their @$$e$ everywhere it counts, except for where it counts most - on the court. Arena? Until they built the Cintas Center - check, check, and checkmate! And while Cintas is a nice enough place (fan base excepted ), no Flyer Fanatic would choose that place over our own Arena (and the NCAA must agree, based on the number of tournament games each has hosted in the decade since Cintas opened). Fan base? Check and Check Again! Compare the number of Dayton fans at Barclay for the A-10 tourney to the number of X fans at MSG for the BE tourney. My guess is a 4-to-1, or higher, despite the fact that the travel distance was almost identical. Go back to the exempt tourneys from last Thanksgiving, and you'll probably find the same result. The problem is, for a top-35 fan base, we've had horrible ROI for most of the past quarter-century, while X would have been a "Buy" for most of that time. And now that we've finally caught-up to X on the court (at least, for the past 2 years we have), they're not letting us "play in their sandbox". Yeah, we're pi$$ed!

At any rate, welcome to UD Pride! And don't be a stranger!
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:11 PM
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A couple of posters have pointed out a few of the relatively recent reason why the “Big Least” is so hated. But in my opinion, it goes back a lot further, and it is not really the “Big East”, but several of the teams that were in both the old and the new “big east”. I am not gonna write a ten paragraph essay, but look at one basic fact. At the risk of getting personal, Providence, St John, nor Georgetown have ever scheduled Dayton for a regular season game. Anytime they have met, it has been is the NIT, or Holiday Festival, or some other tournament. Why is that? In the 50s and 60s, UD had the most wins of any team (keep that as a trivia fact for a rainy day). So one would think with the power mecca of college basketball in that era being in New York City, and mainly centered on these catholic schools, the ones that led the development of the old big least, that they would have at least considered scheduling Dayton! Draw your own conclusions, but I am of the opinion that they collectively decided that none of them would ever give Dayton a chance to show the up. Seaton Hall and Villanova messed up and actually played us a few times in the 90s and early 2000s, but even that has stopped. Why do you think that happened? These founding father simply HATE Dayton. They want no part of us. So why would we want any part of them?
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:55 PM
Flyer'95 Flyer'95 is offline
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One other reason i've always hated the big east goes back to the early days of the RPI. The big east seemed to be the conference that gamed the system years ahead of anyone really noticing. They'd play all their non-con games at home, never do real road games. (many BCS conferences still do this). And entering their conference play they'd all have amazing records. Then they'd 'beat each other up' and rack up quality wins.

Years later when teams from the A10 or the MVC or mountain west learned how to schedule for the RPI, the RPI suddenly became less important to the committee and mike tranghese. Then suddenly it was all about the 'eye test' or number of top 25 rpi wins or top 50 wins. So a team like georgetown might have 3 wins and 9 losses vs. the top 50, but hey....three top 50 wins! They're in.

Meanwhile, none of them would schedule a game with anyone competitive outside of their conference. Ever.
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:29 AM
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Slight correction, Terry. Neither Providence, nor St. John's, nor Georgetown has scheduled any games with UD in the past 30 years. When Joe Mullaney was coach @ PC in the early 80's, however, we played 4 games in 4 years; 2 games in each town (including the 5-overtime spectacle in 1982). But you have to go back to '74 to find the last time St. John's played us, and you have to go back to 1952 to find a regular season game against G-town. Guess the people in NYC & DC can't be bothered to put little ol' UD on the schedule.
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
When I attended the USC game in SoCal a couple of years ago, there were easily several hundred UD fans in attendance. We made our voices heard and stunned the local fans. Same thing happened at Pepperdine back in 2003 (met SDFlyer there). We outnumbered Fordham fans at Rose Hill this past January (and serenaded bewildered NYC subway riders after the game to "Gooooo Dayton Fly-ers!!!!!"). Flyer Faithful is a well earned moniker for our fan base.
I was at the Pepperdine game with my fiancee. Great night! I was in Maui in 2000 with my cousin for the upsets of Top 15 UConn and Top 10 Maryland. I still remember the Maryland crowd being amazed by the size of our crowd and the noise we made. Our crowd and team also made headlines in the Maui paper. I was there solo for the 62-61 NCAA Tournament defeat to Purdue (thanks to Brian Cardinal's flop) in Tucson in 2000 when I was living in the San Francisco Bay Area. I flew from Chicago to Philly countless times in the 1990s to follow the Flyers in the A10 Tournament.

Dayton fans find a way. Every game - home, away, and neutral - that I watch on TV I still get goosebumps when I realize that our fans have just taken over another venue or blown the roof off UD Arena. To be a Flyer fan means agonizing suffering at times. But these last 2 seasons have made up for some of that and I just bought some new shades given the forecast of a bright, bright future ahead.

I was able to bust out my Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight shirts this year to wear on tournament game days for both the men and women. But it should come as no surprise that my favorite shirt has "UD" on the front and "Flyer Faithful" on the back (in red, of course).
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:37 PM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
All these complaints about Dayton playing in Columbus and not a peep about Kentucky playing in Louisville. How long had it been since Dayton played at the Nationwide Arena in Columbus vs Ky playing at the Louisville arena where they play once every year.
Huge difference. UK was a #1 seed. We were an 11. They deserved to be there. I think we were very lucky getting put in Columbus.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Huge difference. UK was a #1 seed. We were an 11. They deserved to be there. I think we were very lucky getting put in Columbus.
or a lot of us ( bracketologists and national press included) thought UD and Boise St are the ones that got the shaft. Once UD was in the PIG, Columbus was the only possible route. It's easy for us to look in the rear view mirror and say well things worked out pretty well for us.

Reality is something was not right with this Selection Cmt and my take is we had a Creighton AD playing nice with the big boys...NBE got 2 completely undeserved seeds with Georgetown and X and the big boys got an assortment of goodies in return including UCLA.

Whether we're in the A10 or NBE and same advice to them, don't lose track of who you are. A10 and NBE aren't and will never be in the inner circle of the dominant football schools. I think somehow they have yet to come to this reality at NBE.
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:10 PM
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Also, i'd be the first to say there is some degree of envy at play here regarding the big east. Upon being left out, and hearing rumors of why and who might have been behind such decisions, it was a dark few months in Flyers land with a lot of hurt feelings and anger. The five game skid that opened up last seasons A10 seemed to compound that and seal our fate to being a basketball afterthought. There was even talk of whether Archie was truly the right guy.

The thing that has changed and divided our own fanbase over the last year is of course our NCAA performance and Archie miraculously guiding us to this level of success. On one hand, it has brightened some Flyer fans' hopes of getting invited to the Big East after all. And on the other hand, it has opened up some eyes to the possibility that we can succeed in the A10, get bids from the A10, and maybe that A10 isn't so bad after all.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:00 PM
Go-UD-Go Go-UD-Go is offline
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I remember from around 1990 there was talk about forming a Catholic Schools league from the pool of formerly independent basketball power schools, of which Dayton was always one. Schools like DePaul, Marquette, Duquesne, St. John's, St. Joe's, etc. The Catholic League never formed and Dayton went into it's Jim O'Brian slide. While all the jockeying for conferences went on, we were not a very good team and missed the first big chances to get into the better leagues. As we rebuilt, we would be a good team in the conference, but never a dominant team. So when the next big chance came with realignment a few years ago, we just missed the boat again. So we don't like the NBE because it is where we want to be, but circumstances have kept us out. We don't like Xavier, because they are the program (win wise) that we wanted to be.

However, now everything seems to be in place. Fans, facilities, great young coach, post season success, very good non-basketball sports. If this continues through the next decade, I don't care if we get into the BE. But entry into the NBE will help it continue, so maybe I do. All I know is that in 2015 it is great to be a Flyer. I don't hate the NBE, I just want Dayton to be in a place where this kind of season can happen more often. Go Flyers!
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Go-UD-Go View Post
I remember from around 1990 there was talk about forming a Catholic Schools league from the pool of formerly independent basketball power schools, of which Dayton was always one. Schools like DePaul, Marquette, Duquesne, St. John's, St. Joe's, etc. The Catholic League never formed and Dayton went into it's Jim O'Brian slide. While all the jockeying for conferences went on, we were not a very good team and missed the first big chances to get into the better leagues. As we rebuilt, we would be a good team in the conference, but never a dominant team. So when the next big chance came with realignment a few years ago, we just missed the boat again. So we don't like the NBE because it is where we want to be, but circumstances have kept us out. We don't like Xavier, because they are the program (win wise) that we wanted to be.

However, now everything seems to be in place. Fans, facilities, great young coach, post season success, very good non-basketball sports. If this continues through the next decade, I don't care if we get into the BE. But entry into the NBE will help it continue, so maybe I do. All I know is that in 2015 it is great to be a Flyer. I don't hate the NBE, I just want Dayton to be in a place where this kind of season can happen more often. Go Flyers!
Everything is timing to a point. Had the new inclusion decision been made at this time (now), we would be looked upon VERY favorably. The hold back would be the Jesuit D bags and X....and to this day I abhor a few of the teams for that. I was all set on joining the NBE back then. Now, I couldn't care less. Take care of business in the A10...its a great league in my eyes.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:21 PM
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Really enjoy the hospitality on this board and it's always good to get a view from the other side as well. Definitely won't be a stranger
Just wanted to point out that you are a conference foe to our most hated rival URI. A huge in state rivalry, we have won 5 straight but next year scares me, if we lose Dunn, we could be in for a rude awakening. Getting to my point, beat Rhode Island by 25 any chance you get. Please. Danny Hurley and his brother Bobby can get a little hostile on the sideline. Only team I love to see lose, but we all have that one team where the hatred runs deep, right?
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by undercoverfriar View Post
Really enjoy the hospitality on this board and it's always good to get a view from the other side as well. Definitely won't be a stranger
Just wanted to point out that you are a conference foe to our most hated rival URI. A huge in state rivalry, we have won 5 straight but next year scares me, if we lose Dunn, we could be in for a rude awakening. Getting to my point, beat Rhode Island by 25 any chance you get. Please. Danny Hurley and his brother Bobby can get a little hostile on the sideline. Only team I love to see lose, but we all have that one team where the hatred runs deep, right?
The Rams have broken our hearts with last second buzzer beaters a few times. I think they will be tough next year.
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