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  #401  
Old 01-08-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
My ranking is not based upon 15 games, it is based upon his previous 9 years as a hc plus the 15 games as UD's hc.

This is obviously not a final ranking, he will likely get at least 4 or 5 years here to improve that ranking.
So are you including JOB's years with the Celtics or OP's years at Clemson or ODU? If not why not? AG has clearly had more success than OP has anywhere.
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  #402  
Old 01-08-2018, 03:39 PM
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AG has been won 1 tourney game in 3 trips over 9 seasons

OP went to 3 straight tourneys at Clemson. His run at Clemson was more successful than anything AG has done
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  #403  
Old 01-08-2018, 06:57 PM
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OP never won a tournament game at any stop.

His teams at Clemson were known for playing an absolute cake non-con schedule, and then squeaking into the tournament. One year he had a very good team with a good seed and blew it in the NCAA. That probably sounds familiar.

So your logic is questionable.

However, I thought he did a great job here to rebuild the program.

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  #404  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:11 PM
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Thought I'd respond to this thread rather than start a new one.

I remain a staunch supporter of Coach Grant as I don't know the issues he's facing. I'm assuming we have 1-2 knuckleheads on the team that are on their own agenda. If so I'm behind our coach who by any definition is a man of integrity. I think Coach Grant will be a very effective recruiter, especially to those families that care where they send their children- notably those single mom's who see Coach as role model who can turn their children into men. The UD campus is a Mom's dream (I have personal knowledge of this having a D there now and knowing my wife's feeling about UD). Coach Grant is also a Mom's dream I would argue.

If Coach can get some recruits to join Dwayne Cohill next year, I like our chances to soon be dominant again in the A-10. VCU is going to be a mess for awhile after losing Tillman - we almost swept them with him & Rhode Island is due to fall back next year losing those seniors.

I may join the critics of his in-game coaching in 2-3 years but today he's the man I want at the helm.
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  #405  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
AG has been won 1 tourney game in 3 trips over 9 seasons

OP went to 3 straight tourneys at Clemson. His run at Clemson was more successful than anything AG has done
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OP was the Marty Schottenheimer and Dusty Baker of college basketball game. Give him a full regular season and his teams could usually squeak into the playoffs and then he never had them accomplish what they could've during the one and dones.
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  #406  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:21 PM
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We have 5 good players.

1 can't play on the road.
1 has been a stud but is prone to foul trouble.
The other 3 are for all intents and purposes freshmen, and are streaky like freshmen.

That combo is good enough to look really good at times and awful at others.

It has taken Grant 2/3 of the year to figure out playing a 6 man rotation gives us the best shot to win most nights. He tried to go the development route, but sometimes the locker room gets out of control. We all heard this happened the year we lost to Cuse in the NCAA.

I'm excited to watch the rest of the season. And beyond.
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  #407  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:25 PM
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Grant also wanted to bring in Donnie Jones as the first assistant but the administration rejected the hire. Personally, I would have loved the hire, but it really doesn't fit the integrity beyond reproach narrative.
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  #408  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Grant also wanted to bring in Donnie Jones as the first assistant but the administration rejected the hire. Personally, I would have loved the hire, but it really doesn't fit the integrity beyond reproach narrative.
Quite a bit of mythos built up about the man.
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  #409  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
OP never won a tournament game at any stop.

His teams at Clemson were known for playing an absolute cake non-con schedule, and then squeaking into the tournament. One year he had a very good team with a good seed and blew it in the NCAA. That probably sounds familiar.

So your logic is questionable.

However, I thought he did a great job here to rebuild the program.
In 9 years as a head coach before Dayton, Anthony Grant has never put together two consecutive NCAA appearances.
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  #410  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
So are you including JOB's years with the Celtics or OP's years at Clemson or ODU? If not why not? AG has clearly had more success than OP has anywhere.
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No it's not "clearly". There's a big difference between taking 3 programs dwelling in bottom of their standings and lifting them up to winning programs and another one taking over teams that have had some recent success and either continuing it or reestablishing it. While it's not clear either way, my point is that it's not clear. OP is credited with saving programs. AG has yet to have any legacy that comes close to that. keyword is "Yet".

The two most important coaches in UD's history are Tom Blackburn and Oliver Purnell because without either of those two, we would not have had the subsequent successful programs that followed. Does that make them the greatest coaches when it comes to winning? No, it makes them builders and saviors of programs, without them you don't get the Donohers and Millers.

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  #411  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
OP never won a tournament game at any stop.

His teams at Clemson were known for playing an absolute cake non-con schedule, and then squeaking into the tournament. One year he had a very good team with a good seed and blew it in the NCAA. That probably sounds familiar.

So your logic is questionable.

However, I thought he did a great job here to rebuild the program.
OP was a 5 seed in 07-08 (a higher seed than AG has ever gotten)
7 seed in 08-09
7 seed in 09-10

Brownell went to the tourney his first year with OP's guys

So clearly what you said about squeaking into the tournament isn't true.
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  #412  
Old 02-11-2018, 12:18 AM
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Can we stop with whatever AG had at previous jobs? Jesus, Bill Belicheck has 5 Super Bowl Championships with NE and was a failed coach with the Browns. Whatever AG did before is of absolutely no value whatsoever today. Different team, different circumstances, different school.
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  #413  
Old 02-11-2018, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Can we stop with whatever AG had at previous jobs? Jesus, Bill Belicheck has 5 Super Bowl Championships with NE and was a failed coach with the Browns. Whatever AG did before is of absolutely no value whatsoever today. Different team, different circumstances, different school.

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  #414  
Old 02-11-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Can we stop with whatever AG had at previous jobs? Jesus, Bill Belicheck has 5 Super Bowl Championships with NE and was a failed coach with the Browns. Whatever AG did before is of absolutely no value whatsoever today. Different team, different circumstances, different school.
Agree 100%. People tend to get wiser and better with age.
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  #415  
Old 02-11-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
In 9 years as a head coach before Dayton, Anthony Grant has never put together two consecutive NCAA appearances.
In seven seasons before this one Dan Hurley has only made it to one NCAA, and never consecutive years. Are you betting against him this year?
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  #416  
Old 02-11-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
OP was a 5 seed in 07-08 (a higher seed than AG has ever gotten)
7 seed in 08-09
7 seed in 09-10

Brownell went to the tourney his first year with OP's guys

So clearly what you said about squeaking into the tournament isn't true.
If you would like something that is demonstrably true, Anthony Grant has more NCAA tournament wins than Oliver Purnell.
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  #417  
Old 02-11-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
If you would like something that is demonstrably true, Anthony Grant has more NCAA tournament wins than Oliver Purnell.
Was that ever a point contention?
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  #418  
Old 02-11-2018, 07:53 PM
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Your point was Purnell was more successful as a head coach than Grant ever was.

Grant has more NCAA wins than Purnell. So, sure.
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  #419  
Old 02-11-2018, 09:39 PM
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Recruiting

If AG can add at least two really good freshmen for the 2019 season...guys that can contribute like the 2018 freshmen we'll be cookin...in my opinion.
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  #420  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
If AG can add at least two really good freshmen for the 2019 season...guys that can contribute like the 2018 freshmen we'll be cookin...in my opinion.
I agree and I didn't want to start a new thread but Happy Valentine's Day to all fellow UD Priders. At least we all seem to agree that Anthony Grant should be given adequate time (3-4 yrs) to work with the current players and get his own recruits. I, for one, hope he is successful and stays for a long time.

Just this week David Jablonski posted on his twitter account how much Jalen Crutcher has improved from his first 12 games to his last 12! Trey Landers has set an example for the younger players of what can be accomplished from one year to the next if you put the necessary work in.

It is nice to have a forum where we can express our opinions, oftentimes just to release frustrations after a loss but as long as they don't become demeaning I find it interesting and try to read them all! I agree with the Jay Bilas's and the Bill Raftery's of the world who say that UD fans are some of the most knowledgable about the game of basketball!
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  #421  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
So are you including JOB's years with the Celtics or OP's years at Clemson or ODU? If not why not? AG has clearly had more success than OP has anywhere.
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I was not including JOB in my rankings, I was only looking at the last 4 head coaches.

I included all of OP's head coaching stops.

AG did win a NCAAT game, which OP never did, but OP has more NIT and NCAAT appearances.
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  #422  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I was not including JOB in my rankings, I was only looking at the last 4 head coaches.

I included all of OP's head coaching stops.

AG did win a NCAAT game, which OP never did, but OP has more NIT and NCAAT appearances.
The only thing wrong about the comment is that appearances in post season that are 1 and done are like participation trophies ... sure there nice but only the participant remembers them ... no one else can quite remember you were there and what you did!
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  #423  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:26 PM
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For what it’s worth, Purnell’s post-season accomplishments were compiled during a 27-year career as a head coach. Grant is in just his 10th year as a head coach.
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  #424  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
The only thing wrong about the comment is that appearances in post season that are 1 and done are like participation trophies ... sure there nice but only the participant remembers them ... no one else can quite remember you were there and what you did!
...Which is why, even though last yearís senior class went to the NCAAT after every season, the teams that will be most remembered are the Elite Eight team from 2014 and the Magnificent Seven squad from 2015. The past two seasons will be most remembered for what might have been (if guys didnít have girl trouble, and if God hadnít recruited a shot-blocker).
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  #425  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
AG did win a NCAAT game, which OP never did, but OP has more NIT and NCAAT appearances.
OP did an excellent job rebuilding the program but he also lost to teams like Detroit and Tennessee Tech at home in the NIT. His nickname was never "Mr. March."

Last edited by longtimefan; 02-18-2018 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:19 PM
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I'm amazed that grown men continue to trash former coaches to make a point. OP, BG, and AM all contributed to the foundation that has been set. All were not perfect either. Hopefully AG builds on it. We shall see.

I still think it is silly to draw any conclusions about AG with such a small sample size and, clearly, not a full complement of players at his disposal. I guess it's all part of "it's better to be first than potentially right" ethos that permeates our twitter/social media driven society these days
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  #427  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:49 PM
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I think a view is made clearer if you see AG here a decade from now (or not). I project he will be here. The next part of this is: what are the desired achievements.
When I was active here, Dayton was consistently compared to Xavier. With our presumed A-10 stature, I at least expected the Flyers making the NCAA a few times a decade. I surely see AG improving, but think he comes up short given the following perception:

There are so many coaches out there with abundant passion, ego, and self-determination. I believe those 3 traits to be imperative. Yet, such a competitive environment exists that even possessing these qualities guarantee nothing. However, NOT having any one of these, assures failure to reach the TOP.
The departure from heading one's own program especially brought pause. I really do NOT think AG is DRIVEN by obsession or/and unwavering vision. Christ, these persons in successful programs practically sell their souls

AG got a particularly slanted look because of being an alum and was deemed a 'stayer.' I think he will stay.
In a decade, Dayton will again be on the cusp of occasional NCAA invites under AG, as he will mature. Still, I doubt there will be success commensurate with the advantages Dayton affords (relative to the other A-10 programs).

I DO wish AG the best. I simply put my thoughts to words.... I am not here to agitate 'optimists and believers.'
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:42 AM
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“He took a group of players and got them to believe. That's the hardest thing to do. When people are used to losing, creating a vision and getting people to buy in to a vision and share the vision and trust the vision and trust you as a new coach … is not easy. But he's genuine. He's sincere. He's believable.”

On Ryan Odom of UMBC

This is what I tried to articulate in several attempts, but did not find the right words. Here it is in that quote; only turn the parameters upside down. !

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  #429  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:24 PM
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Now NCOY.
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  #430  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
This is a potentially disastrous hire in terms of failing to maintain our momentum.

I would give AG a very short leash.

There is no reason that he should not have UD back in the NCAAT by year 3 or year 4.

If UD is not back in the NCAAT by year 4, then I think UD should pull the plug and replace him and move on.

I am not in favor of giving him 6 or 7 or 8 years. We did that with BG, and things never got better.
Well he is 0-3 so far. I sure hope he gets them to the dance this upcoming year. I donít want to see him get canned - I really like the guy.

So much garbage on this thread itís comical. There are at least 2 guys on here they have to packs on at least 100 lbs after all the crow they should have eaten by now.
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  #431  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yep...really bad move...I have made my feelings very clear on this...good luck to AG...I hope that he has learned some things since he was fired at Alabama...I will try to reserve further criticism until we see what he does on the court.

Feeling very depressed right now. Get ready for some ugly basketball.
I can cherry pick his post too. I 100% liked this post way back then and agree with it still
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  #432  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I can cherry pick his post too. I 100% liked this post way back then and agree with it still
So you still think it was a bad hire and think itís been 3 years of ugly basketball? This wasnít cherry picking and might have been the least negative of the many
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  #433  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:35 PM
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I never understood why people disliked the hire. Considering it seems like so few people understand the Xís & Oís of basketball, let alone broke down film of how Grantís team played at Alabama

But even If they couldnít explain why they disliked how Grantís teams played, they completely discounted his successes at VCU or really valuable experience gained coaching in the NBA. In Oklahoma City he coached at the very highest level in the Finals, with probably the best roster in the league for a few years

It really seemed like many people just wanted to be negative about the hire
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  #434  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:52 PM
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Trey Landers, Jalen Crutcher, Rodney Chatman (I think), and Obi Toppin have never played a minute of NCAA tournament ball. Ryan Miksell played a total of 8 minutes. And technically, AG hasnít delivered an NCAA tournament appearance yet. (NCAA tournament appearances can be so over rated.)

I think we make the tournament next year. I just canít see Jalen and Rodney never making it and I canít see Ibi not making it back. I think about how players improved in the last third of the season. Rodney found his role again. Ibi worked his way out of a shooting slump. I except him to be on fire from the first game next year as a starter. Heís waited a long time to be a starter at this level. I believe he will bring it every night. Cohill just flat out manned-up. Jordy had his best games late.

Jalen is NOT going to leave UD without getting his shot to showcase his talents running his team on the NCAA stage. AG & Co will find a way to get next yearís team to the dance.
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  #435  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:13 PM
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No reason to not expect this team to not be in the Tourney next year. Too much upperclassmen talent and plenty of young talent where only 1 or 2 have to be a regular contributor. Oh and CAG leading the pack.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I might as well go on record with this now, rather than say I told you so later.

Predictions: none of the current UD assistants stay...MW is gone, maybe a couple/few other recruits leave as well...Kostas leaves...Avery Johnson does better at Alabama than AG did...AM does very well at IU...AG is fired or leaves under pressure eventually, like BG did...we are back at ground zero, starting over again, after AG is gone.

I hope that I am wrong about all of this.

Certainly expecting some red pips.
Classic UDScott - always wrong - always negative.

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Old 03-25-2020, 12:19 AM
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God, thank you for making coach Anthony Grant available, and delivering him home . 🙏 They can never take COY away from you Mr. Grant. Weíll done.
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  #438  
Old 03-25-2020, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Can somebody in the know give us the style of D and O AG will run or at least has run in the past. I always felt that AM's style of both were the right direction both as fun to watch and getting us to the top, it was just a matter of getting a higher and higher quality of player/athletes to improve.

What if anything resembles Don Donoher? Anything similar to AM? Or what coach in UD's recent past does his styles on D and O resemble. Is he flexible enough to incorporate a zone defense if the situation calls for it? Does he like to press? What about ball movement on offense?

I personally would've preferred to keep the AM style going. I have had reservations about AG for a few reasons. But that's going to be dropped from the opinions I express from here on out. He's our coach and he's had great successes and also what looks to be some bad failures. This is a new situation for both he and UD so it might just be the best fit for both.

Welcome home AG, I hope you've found your perfect coaching job and we've found our perfect coach.
Took the trip down memory lane, and found this somewhat prophetic post from Smitty10, especially the 2nd paragraph:
-What if anything resembles Don Donoher? Player motion on offense, commitment to the University community.
-Is he flexible enough to incorporate a zone defense if the situation calls for it? Yep.
-Does he like to press? When the situation calls for it, yes.
-What about ball movement on offense? The results speak for themselves.

So glad Neil and CAG got together and made it happen. Glad to have you home, Coach!
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  #439  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
So you still think it was a bad hire and think it’s been 3 years of ugly basketball? This wasn’t cherry picking and might have been the least negative of the many
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I didn’t like the hire at the time. His record at Alabama left a lot to be desired. The post I quoted also said that ud2 hoped he learned some new things in the NBA (which it appears he did) and that he would reserve criticism (which I have). After this year my only concern is how do we keep momentum moving forward and try to retain assistant coaches? Neither are a fault of AG.

I just see a lot of people throw ud2 and few others under the bus everytime they post. Nobody will be right 100% of the time but they post without their “everything about ud is great” attitude and I see them as realist. A lot of people on here think UD can do nothing wrong. Perfect example below as they reference one poster and respond to ud2

Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Classic UDScott - always wrong - always negative.

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  #440  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:30 AM
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I was wait and see.

So far, so good. Let’s hang on to the guy.

TX Flyer hit it on the head.
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  #441  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:33 AM
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My position at the time of AG's hire was that just about any other hire was going to continue the revolving coaching door at UD. Whether it was 3 years, 5 years or 8 years, it was going to continue. A coaching change is very disruptive and it is not just the actual change that hurts. It is the hint of the change that hurts as much with recruiting.

If AG worked out, he would provide stability because I didn't see him leaving for another opportunity. If it didn't work out, we would be in the same spot as before. Right now it looks like it is working out.
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  #442  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
My position at the time of AG's hire was that just about any other hire was going to continue the revolving coaching door at UD. Whether it was 3 years, 5 years or 8 years, it was going to continue. A coaching change is very disruptive and it is not just the actual change that hurts. It is the hint of the change that hurts as much with recruiting.

If AG worked out, he would provide stability because I didn't see him leaving for another opportunity. If it didn't work out, we would be in the same spot as before. Right now it looks like it is working out.


Exactly, stability is the key. I think Archie had a tough time recruiting after his Elite 8 run partly because everyone knew he was going to leave eventually.
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  #443  
Old 03-25-2020, 12:21 PM
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I wanted AG three coaches ago.
So happy for him and so proud -
I believe he bleeds UD red & blue. Always has. Always will.
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  #444  
Old 03-25-2020, 12:32 PM
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Since we are talking about coaches

A Miller - although we had 4 years of NCAA games you would have thought that the recruits being brought in would be 'pretty good' ... not 4 or 5 stars but pretty good.

IIRC There was J Davis from SC, and M Wright but there were some really pizz poor attitude guys or players with issues in the last 2 classes. Let's remember that very first NCAA run had freshmen on the team that turned out to be the winningest team in history. But some recruits he had coming his last year and what was anticipated in the year after he left ... not sure what Archie was thinking.

IIRC a recruit or recruit of interest we did not get was quoted as saying something to the affect "He didn't think he could get that player so Archie backed off" .

How he would have fared with the team he was expected to have if he stayed is anyones guess. Some of them turns out were 'basket cases' or in over their heads.

A Grant - For what has turned out to be better than anyone could have imagined Grant's our guy now.

Typical in the extreme's of opinion and prognosticators both on this board and in media it was the worst possible hire or the best hire ever.

I was honestly unsure and would have been in the middle ... somewhat wait and see but give the guy some time to show what he's made off. He had success at VCU and so - so at AL.

As an assistant coach let's face it, you can hardy have a known quantity from that position as we have seen already (BC). So what he did or didn't have as skills as an Assistant Coach gets shadowed by the HC.

Looking at that first year ... it sucked but he had a team like an independent racer using a 1973 Ford Pinto in a NASCAR race. (for you people born after 1980 - google it!)

He got rid of dead wood and although struggling to fill positions he got a decent record the next year ...

And then this year .... the maestro handled both the players and the notoriety of outside noise with a trained hand.

I do have to chuckle a bit when I see reference to what some naysayers posted or claimed that 'if he follows my advice or does what I think should be done he will work out well' ...

Really? Wow the skill set and hubris some have on here .... experts in hiring and scheduling ... I say what a waste of talent you have in putting your time on here when there is so much 'out there' that needs fixing. Just saying.

I've done my share of hiring and firing. Some I was thrilled to have come on board disappointed in the end and some I took due to desperation to get work accomplished I have been surprised and very happy they turned out well. You some times just gotta do what you can and hope for the best.

In Grant I see someone who wants to do well for his school and his new home town. He is going to be the one who beats himself up more than anyone from the outside could if things go poorly and tempers his chest beating when things go well.
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  #445  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
Not my first choice, but he's had some good runs. We'll see if he can hang onto this recruiting class. NBA coaching experience won't hurt.
Originally Posted by 31770 View Post
Meh...
This is a good get IF he can keep McKinley Wright, but i seriously doubt that will happen...

we will see...
Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
we squandered a major opportunity
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yep...really bad move...I have made my feelings very clear on this...good luck to AG...I hope that he has learned some things since he was fired at Alabama...I will try to reserve further criticism until we see what he does on the court.

Feeling very depressed right now. Get ready for some ugly basketball.

Time for crow, served cold.

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  #446  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@CBB_Central
UCSB is about to be 12-3 with their only losses to Pitt, USC, and Texas A&M. They didnít beat a D1 team until December 27 last year and won 6 games all year. Joe Pasternack is an absolute WIZARD.

@CBB_Central
Big West: UC Santa Barbara. I thought the Gauchos would be good. I didnít expect them to be THIS good in year one of the Joe Pasternack era. Leland King has been a revelation.

Check back in about an hour for another block of conference picks!

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Former Arizona assistant Joe Pasternack is doing a nice job at UC Santa Barbara. Gauchos are 8-2 overall. Visit USC on Sunday night in Los Angeles.

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Biggest takeaway from the gym today...Joe Pasternack is going to have it rolling at Santa Barbara shortly. Sekou Toure & Amadou Sow are high majors headed to the Big West. Won't be fair.
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UCSB was 160 in Kenpom this year.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:44 PM
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Some guys are really entertaining, usually wrong, but entertaining. Especially when their posts come back to haunt them.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:51 PM
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I read through the entire thread. All I have to say is "God bless the broken road that led me straight to you."
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:35 PM
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this is a sorry bunch of flyer fans. Never seen anyone gloat so much when speaking of their fellow alums and Fans. There was nothing wrong with any of the concerns posted 3 years ago. If any of you said you expected the year we just had you’re lying.

Why can’t we just enjoy the year we had and be happy that the future is still bright? Does it make you feel like bigger men to say you posted something on a message board to prove you’re more right?
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  #450  
Old 03-25-2020, 05:15 PM
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Txflyer, I find your comment interesting. You have a tendency to be more negative than positive on your posts and I would imagine you would have jumped all over Grant had he failed. Just admit Grant was a great, not good, hire and let it be.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
Txflyer, I find your comment interesting. You have a tendency to be more negative than positive on your posts and I would imagine you would have jumped all over Grant had he failed. Just admit Grant was a great, not good, hire and let it be.
I have said I like the grant hire now. I questioned it in the beginning after his Alabama stint. What he did in 3 years I thought would have taken him many more years, if at all. Never did I imagine him being national coach of the year. But itís a well deserved recognition for what he has done
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  #452  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:32 PM
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If we're not accountable for what we say -- what are we. The hits and the misses.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If we're not accountable for what we say -- what are we. The hits and the misses.
I get that. My concern is people come out of the woodworks to tell people they are wrong. They then go on about how people only post when they think things are ďwrongĒ. Are they not doing the exact same thing? Yes
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:41 PM
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I know Coach Grant was the National Coach of the Year and all, but I'm still p!ssed that we didn't hire Ray Harper.
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Old 03-25-2020, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I'm on board. Would love to keep Ostrom. Would love to keep the recruits.

If not...we will be OK. May have to survive for a year or two on graduate transfers and under the radar guys, but we will be OK.
This guy is an idiot. We found the under the radar guys...and I think we did a little more than survive.
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  #456  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:40 PM
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And if AG doesnít win COY every year now we will hear about it from the naysayers.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
This guy is an idiot. We found the under the radar guys...and I think we did a little more than survive.
In no way trying to be argumentative. Iíd be genuinely interested in your 3rd year feedback on JC vs. MW and your projections for year 4 since you were probably the most passionate poster about losing him etc and since Iím sure youíve kept a closer eye on him than most of us.

P.S. your thoughts above about the hire were very rational

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Old 03-26-2020, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
In no way trying to be argumentative. Iíd be genuinely interested in your 3rd year feedback on JC vs. MW and your projections for year 4 since you were probably the most passionate poster about losing him etc and since Iím sure youíve kept a closer eye on him than most of us.

P.S. your thoughts above about the hire were very rational

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It's funny - I was passionate about it - and I still catch myself watching a Colorado game here and there.

MW is the better defender, but offensively he needs the ball in his hands. The offense runs through him - and I don't think that style of play would fit well into what AG has done.

I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong 3 years ago. I was convinced MW was the better player. I continued to believe that up until this year. JC changed my mind this year for sure - and I think next year we see him take another big step forward.

In the last few days I've seen two "50 best players in NCAA" lists. Obviously Obi was #1 on both. What was more interesting, though, was that JC made both lists - MW was not on either.

It was great to see JC get the recognition he deserves.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/03/1...t-players-2020

https://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...ansas-kentucky
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  #459  
Old 03-26-2020, 03:12 AM
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In the 5 pages of professional analysis on this thread, there is one thing that can be measured, that had nothing to do with previous records, offense, defense, etc.

CULTURE.

AG has established a culture at UD that will provide more beneficial than using timeouts, X's and O's, etc. That culture is something that he can establish and follow through with due to being a lifer here at UD. AM cared about the culture that got him some immediate results, but not the results that sustain a program for the long haul.
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  #460  
Old 03-26-2020, 07:35 AM
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My take-away from looking back at coaching changes:

It's hard to handicap coaches before they start their tenure. And we need to sit back and wait 3-4 years to see what they can establish.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
This guy is an idiot. We found the under the radar guys...and I think we did a little more than survive.
Lighten up. Overall, I think this guy is a pretty good poster. He canít be expected to be Wright all the time.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
It's funny - I was passionate about it - and I still catch myself watching a Colorado game here and there.

MW is the better defender, but offensively he needs the ball in his hands. The offense runs through him - and I don't think that style of play would fit well into what AG has done.

I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong 3 years ago. I was convinced MW was the better player. I continued to believe that up until this year. JC changed my mind this year for sure - and I think next year we see him take another big step forward.

In the last few days I've seen two "50 best players in NCAA" lists. Obviously Obi was #1 on both. What was more interesting, though, was that JC made both lists - MW was not on either.

It was great to see JC get the recognition he deserves.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/03/1...t-players-2020

https://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...ansas-kentucky
I agree with your analysis and they are just 2 different type of players. If MW came to UD weíd see a different makeup of players on the roster. Iím not saying it would be better or worse but we got JC instead and I have no complaints there.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:06 AM
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Not sure about everyone but for me ....

I've generated data and analyzed trends for quite a bit of my career and was careful to limit what I said was to be or will be based upon a single point of data or a very small sample size. Forecasting using limited data (or knowledge) didn't seem to be a safe bet.

Maybe Figgie can attest to this too!


The stock market experts get it wrong too and in fact probably make more money nonetheless than their pure record would dictate they should.

So when I see someone proclaiming something that requires nothing more than the opinion but proclaimed as fact .....

Here opinions are what makes this board what it is, a collection of opinions and some facts sprinkled in for some reality checks

So yea opinions will get challenged and opinion will get hammered when it's called out ... fact of life!

Players will improve and players will degrade. Coaches will make both good and bad decisions during the season and real time in game.

It's there for all to see. Nice thing about UDPRIDE, we can all hide behind our opinions and those opinions we share pretty much does not impact real life.

Another thing to be grateful for beside OBI playing for OUR TEAM.

Go UD! Go Flyer Priders!
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:23 PM
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I don't think many posters call out negative posts except for the posters who say the same negative stuff over and over and over and over.
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  #465  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:55 AM
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I was not overly negative, but I was CERTAINLY not overly impressed with this AG hire. At a minimum a crow appetizer is in my future.

They always say that the better the players, the better the coach looks. But I think this is different. It's beyond hard to go an entire conference season and not lose a single game. And the A10 was not that drastically overmatched by UD. Overmatched? Yes. But not so much that a game doesn't slip away here or there.

AG will struggle again in the future, there is no doubt. But he proved that he is a VERY capable coach and we're lucky to have him.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:23 AM
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Gazoo

AG will struggle again in the future, there is no doubt.
Yes very true but this is not a specific trait of Grant. All coaches face this. As an example see Archie Miller and the Dookie coach this year. Duke has also lost in early rounds of the NCAA though not enough for my satisfaction!
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:32 AM
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Yep, no doubt about it, I did not think we would be this good this year, so I botched that. I own that.

However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought the idea that Archie left an empty cupboard.

Next year without Obi will tell us a lot about Grant. We certainly appear headed in the right direction though.
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:36 AM
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And let's not forget that many posters were totally convinced that Archie was a bad hire in his 3rd year...cough, cough King Rollo...cough, cough Beatty Town Coach...cough, cough.

I don't remember those posters getting blasted.

I just thought it was extremely risky to head in a new direction after our most successful period in 40+ years with Archie.
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:49 AM
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And as far as the culture change under Grant is concerned, if we had hired one of Archie's guys, Neil could have demanded that things change culturally. Just because there were some cultural problems with Archie, that does not mean that those problems would have continued under one of his assistants.

So yeah, maybe Archie ran some things in a manner that he should not have, but he got us over the top/got us to a new, higher level, so sometimes you have to crack some eggs to make an omelet.

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  #470  
Old 03-29-2020, 10:58 AM
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Love your logic ud2, I was wrong but even though I was wrong, I was still right. You are correct, you own it. Admit it, as you did, and let it go.
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought the idea that Archie left an empty cupboard.

Next year without Obi will tell us a lot about Grant. We certainly appear headed in the right direction though.
Ummmmmm......what? Is this is a joke or are you being serious?
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  #472  
Old 03-29-2020, 01:11 PM
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The issue, as I see it, was that for many coach “hires” UD was a stepping stone-

Finally, I believe, for Coach Anthony Grant, UD is a destination.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:42 PM
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UD2 may only see half the truth ... his half

I think he should be known as UD1 rather than UD2 .... unless of course that posters name is already taken.

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Old 03-29-2020, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And let's not forget that many posters were totally convinced that Archie was a bad hire in his 3rd year...cough, cough King Rollo...cough, cough Beatty Town Coach...cough, cough.

I don't remember those posters getting blasted.

I just thought it was extremely risky to head in a new direction after our most successful period in 40+ years with Archie.

See post #464.
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Old 03-29-2020, 02:11 PM
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Man, nothing like doubling down on being wrong. We are so much better off than with one of Archie's assistants. Claiming that "Neil would have demanded culture changes" is ridiculous. Neil could have done that with Archie and didn't. Grant brought the culture change with him, and it's not just him. He recruits the kind of player that has strong family upbringing and will buy into the team concept. Grant is night and day from where any of Archie's assistants might have been. I may not have been the most excited when AG was hired, mostly because I felt it was the "safe" pick at the time. It may have been safe, but it was also outstanding. I still don't see any of Archie's assistants having their door beaten down to become head coaches, yet you were willing to turn over Dayton to an unproven assistant with no basis whatsoever in their ability to be a HC. If you had said we should have hired some other up and coming head coach from a smaller school or a proven assistant at a larger school, that would make more sense. But Kuwik, Ostrom, Griffen etc? Give me a break. Decent assistants sure. Head coach at UD? Absolutely not.
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Ummmmmm......what? Is this is a joke or are you being serious?
Has to be a joke. It's not even logical. That team left to Grant was not very talented.

Grant had to save Jordan. Pierce wasn't talented enough, either was Matej and ultimately even Jordan transfered out because he realized the Talent level was above him.

CAG is fantastic and everyone can see it. Model ambassador for the program, National Coach of the Year.
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yep, no doubt about it, I did not think we would be this good this year, so I botched that. I own that.

However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought the idea that Archie left an empty cupboard.

Next year without Obi will tell us a lot about Grant. We certainly appear headed in the right direction though.
Uh, you were wrong about a lot more than that. Here’s your post from mid-season 2018-19:

Originally Posted by ud2

We will not make the NIT or NCAAT this year.
We will not make the NCAAT next year.
We are not on schedule.
We are not ahead of schedule.
We are definitely behind schedule.
It might be another 8 or 9 years before we win another NCAAT game.
We made the NIT last year. We made the NCAA that wasn’t this year. No one in their right mind could say a likely 1-seed was “behind schedule.” And to somehow think we’d see an 8-9 year NCAA win drought? I feel pretty confident that would have been wrong, too. Not too many 1 or 2 seeds lose their opening game.

Sorry to dredge this up again, but you “own” a lot more than thinking we wouldn’t be any good this year.

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  #478  
Old 03-29-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought the idea that Archie left an empty cupboard.

And you wonder why you get blasted???
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:59 PM
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Grant's team is more of a true team than anything that proceeded it. Even in the midst of a 14-17 campaign only two years ago, it was true for the guys that didn't have one foot out the door and I'm quite sure coach would have shown the rest of them the door if it wasn't necessary to have five guys on the court. Grant's players act like men; many of the previous crew acted like ten-year-olds*. Grant's team represents their school and themselves well. Dwayne Cohill struggled for playing time at times**, the previous staff stopped recruiting him because he was too good for Dayton. Grant took a bunch of 2* and 3* guys and turned them into the #3 team in CBB, and won NCOY in the process. Grant developed a big man into a freaking lottery pick. Miller developed Dayton into a bubble team in three years, and developed Indiana into a bubble team in three years.

Cupboard not bare? You have got to be ****ting me. Miller left behind Xeryius, Crosby, Sam Miller, Kostas, Svoboda, Jordan Davis, and Jordan Pierce.

*Apologies to great guys like Scoochie, Kyle, Pollard, Pierre, Sibert, Wehrli, Gruden, etc.

**and seems to have gotten over the hump.
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Old 03-31-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And let's not forget that many posters were totally convinced that Archie was a bad hire in his 3rd year...cough, cough King Rollo...cough, cough Beatty Town Coach...cough, cough.

I don't remember those posters getting blasted.

I just thought it was extremely risky to head in a new direction after our most successful period in 40+ years with Archie.
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And as far as the culture change under Grant is concerned, if we had hired one of Archie's guys, Neil could have demanded that things change culturally. Just because there were some cultural problems with Archie, that does not mean that those problems would have continued under one of his assistants.

So yeah, maybe Archie ran some things in a manner that he should not have, but he got us over the top/got us to a new, higher level, so sometimes you have to crack some eggs to make an omelet.
Amazing.

1. did you notice with Archie, BG and OP that the only person on the bench in all those years who has gotten a good HC gig is Shaka Smart? Maybe when Archie left Neil said we absolutely need a new direction...one that provides some stability, experience and staff development. there were transition issues during all three of those changes because there was no one on the bench to take over.

2. Maybe Neil was working to change the culture issues already and when Archie left he saw it as an opportunity to really fix the issues he saw rather than hope he could manage a change of direction. plus, if someone was ready to take one of the better jobs in America, surely they would have gotten a good coaching job elsewhere. right?

3. maybe Neil was tired of the coaching carousel...and the use of UD as a stepping stone. Tired of not being able to hire one of the assistants because they weren't developed enough. so he hires an experienced coach with real ties to UD who brings in assistants who have been a head coach (Solomon), have left to become a head coach (Jones) and an assistant who was wanted by a power 5 school (Kane). No way UD is not better off as a staff now than it was.

4. UD in AGs third year was #3, a 1 seed, AG NCOY, Obi NPOY and AG's first two recruits are A10 first team players. we had ESPN Gameday on campus and Dick Vitale requested to announce the ESPN broadcast despite already being committed to an ACC game the next day. By all accounts its as tight knit a team as UD has had.

with all of that how in the world you don't simply say "My bad" and admit Neil Sullivan hit an absolute home run with his pick of AG as UD's head coach is simply mind boggling. in Archies third year no one came close to approaching your level of stubbornness on this issue. not even close.
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Old 03-31-2020, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
Amazing.

1. did you notice with Archie, BG and OP that the only person on the bench in all those years who has gotten a good HC gig is Shaka Smart? Maybe when Archie left Neil said we absolutely need a new direction...one that provides some stability, experience and staff development. there were transition issues during all three of those changes because there was no one on the bench to take over.

2. Maybe Neil was working to change the culture issues already and when Archie left he saw it as an opportunity to really fix the issues he saw rather than hope he could manage a change of direction. plus, if someone was ready to take one of the better jobs in America, surely they would have gotten a good coaching job elsewhere. right?

3. maybe Neil was tired of the coaching carousel...and the use of UD as a stepping stone. Tired of not being able to hire one of the assistants because they weren't developed enough. so he hires an experienced coach with real ties to UD who brings in assistants who have been a head coach (Solomon), have left to become a head coach (Jones) and an assistant who was wanted by a power 5 school (Kane). No way UD is not better off as a staff now than it was.

4. UD in AGs third year was #3, a 1 seed, AG NCOY, Obi NPOY and AG's first two recruits are A10 first team players. we had ESPN Gameday on campus and Dick Vitale requested to announce the ESPN broadcast despite already being committed to an ACC game the next day. By all accounts its as tight knit a team as UD has had.

with all of that how in the world you don't simply say "My bad" and admit Neil Sullivan hit an absolute home run with his pick of AG as UD's head coach is simply mind boggling. in Archies third year no one came close to approaching your level of stubbornness on this issue. not even close.

Great post, but you're trying to reason with him??? You're letting facts get in the way of his story. Somewhere he actually just said he still thinks we would be better off if we had hired one of Archie's assistants, that we would have had the chance to go to the NCAA the last three years.
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  #482  
Old 03-31-2020, 04:45 PM
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Whatever happened to UDScott? This must have been an excruciatingly hard year to endure since he was calling coach AG the worst hire of all time. Maybe he finally moved out of mom's basement and got a real job....
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Whatever happened to UDScott? This must have been an excruciatingly hard year to endure since he was calling coach AG the worst hire of all time. Maybe he finally moved out of mom's basement and got a real job....
She took his computer away for such a bad post.
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Old 04-01-2020, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yep, no doubt about it, I did not think we would be this good this year, so I botched that. I own that.

However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought
Bruh...

Kevin Kuwik...assistant Davidson....20 years NCAA experience...HS offer at Wayne prior to Davidson

Allen Griffin...assistant Syracuse...15 years NCAA experience

Tom Ostrom...Associate HC Indiana...18 years NCAA experience (passed up for NKU job...shady AF and was prior to UD in the AAU circles)

If they were that desirable, they would have been selected. They also would have most likely taken a HC job somewhere in the US if they were offered.

There is a hell of a lot more to leading a D1 program than being a role player on a coaching staff. I agree that continuity would be nice and it has proven to work at other schools, like XU.

Given that, I am willing to bet that UD wanted a culture change from Archie Miller's regime. Outside of the E8 run and some other post season work, there were plenty of strange things that went on to the dislike of UD. Off court incidents. Drunk HC wife spouting off on Twitter like she belonged in Old North Dayton. Spats on the bench. There were plenty of things that went on that we can all dig up in the posts that were not representative of UD and UD basketball. That wasn't a fluke and it wasn't simply bad luck.

Grant is a class act from top to bottom. His staff is as well. You don't see his staff out on the town when on the road, etc. You have stability and veterans. Greer is only a few years into coaching after a lengthy professional career. Solomon has been there and done that, from assistant to HC. Hertz brings stability and experience with being on Florida's staff for a couple decades. I will put the experience and leadership of Grant's staff over Miller's staff any day of the week. If you tally up the complete resume of the current staff and Archie's at UD, it isn't even close. From college to professional coaching and playing experience.

If there were a capable coach on Miller's staff, UD would have promoted him. They didn't. They didn't for a reason. As I mentioned, just because a guy holds a clipboard and does position work in practice, doesn't make them a head coach.

Neil has a big job to do. He doesn't have time to manage every aspect of the basketball program. He doesn't have the time to babysit. He needs a guy that can work with minimal supervision without coming off the rails. Cleaning house transitions into building his culture of what he believes UD basketball should be. Not Wabler's idea.

Neil is a young guy but has experience and knowledge on par with the veterans in this business. He doesn't want a program he has to manage the day to day of. He wants to see to it that the people he does hire, do the job for him. That's how the good ones separate themselves from the not so great ones. They know that they higher quality of hire they put in important positions, the easier their job is and the more successful the entire organization will be.
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  #485  
Old 04-01-2020, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Bruh...

Kevin Kuwik...assistant Davidson....20 years NCAA experience...HS offer at Wayne prior to Davidson

Allen Griffin...assistant Syracuse...15 years NCAA experience

Tom Ostrom...Associate HC Indiana...18 years NCAA experience (passed up for NKU job...shady AF and was prior to UD in the AAU circles)

If they were that desirable, they would have been selected. They also would have most likely taken a HC job somewhere in the US if they were offered.

There is a hell of a lot more to leading a D1 program than being a role player on a coaching staff. I agree that continuity would be nice and it has proven to work at other schools, like XU.

If there were a capable coach on Miller's staff, UD would have promoted him. They didn't. They didn't for a reason. As I mentioned, just because a guy holds a clipboard and does position work in practice, doesn't make them a head coach.
We will just have to agree to disagree...there are plenty of head coaches at both UD and other schools that were promoted from being an assistant that, as far as I am aware, were never offered a head coaching job elsewhere. I do not consider never having been offered a head coaching job elsewhere to be a disqualifier. To a degree, it is all a crapshoot, heck, Steele at Xavier got passed over for the Wright State job, does that mean that Xavier made a bad hire?

And what about 4 out of the last 6 UD hires? Donoher, JOB, BG, and AM had never been offered a d1 hc job anywhere prior to being hired here as far as I am aware. But now all of a sudden that we hired Grant, who had prior hc experience, he is the ideal candidate?

And don't tell me that you had to have p5/BE assistant experience either, Ostrom and Griffin had such experience.

The examples are too numerous to list: Stevens, Lickliter, and Miller at Butler, Capel, Smart, Rhoades, and Grant at VCU, Gillen, Mack, Miller, and Steele at Xavier, Skinner and Cox at RI , Aaron McKie at Temple, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Izzo at MSU, Pitino at Minnesota, Wojo at Marquette, Dutcher at SDSU, Craig Neal at NM, and on and on and on.

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Old 04-01-2020, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Whatever happened to UDScott? This must have been an excruciatingly hard year to endure since he was calling coach AG the worst hire of all time. Maybe he finally moved out of mom's basement and got a real job....
At least UDScott just goes away when things don't go his way. Others that are wrong keep hanging around and argue.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:50 AM
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Don't know about JOB, but BG was offered several jobs and turned down several jobs, most notably Depaul who tried to hire him again away from UD. Archie I'm not sure about, he was pretty young when he came to UD, so any offers would have been fairly limited just due to age.


At any rate, you are chasing windmills and ghosts that you can not prove. Nobody has any idea what any of those assistants would have done if UD promoted them to head coach. What we do know, is that CAG came in, cleared the roster of more dead weight than I think any of realized when Archie left and has built up a solid program. People feared that the offense would be boring and ineffective, yet they had one of the best offenses this season. People feared CAG wouldn't develop players as well as Archie, yet he's turned Obi & Crutcher into top level A10 players and possible (or certainly in Obi's case) NBA players. Trey went from like 40 minutes to an all league level player.



Certainly this season is another chapter, but there is nothing to date that tells me that any of Archie's assistants would have done as well as CAG has done the last 3 seasons. Promote Ostrom and Wright allegedly would have stayed @ UD, but that would likely mean Crutcher was playing somewhere else, so I'll call that a push. There is no denying that the "true team" moniker that was promoted during the elite 8 run was falling apart at the seems.


So I'm not even sure what you are agreeing to disagree about, that some fantasy world where Ostrom or Kuwik take over, cure Covid-19 before it happened and UD is hoisting back to back national titles can never be proven, or disproven. Just admit, that despite worthy questions if it was the right approach at the time, the benefit of hindsight tells us that Neil did an excellent job of recognizing and closing the deal on the right coach for the university.


Frankly, I'm surprised some school hasn't tried to snap Neil up yet, perhaps they have and he's shut those things down. I know he has young kids, there are worse places than being in charge of UD athletics.
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  #488  
Old 04-01-2020, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
At least UDScott just goes away when things don't go his way. Others that are wrong keep hanging around and argue.
Who is to say I am wrong? That has yet to be determined. I don't think anybody annointed Archie as the Savior after the Elite 8 year. Have you seen the 5 or so lists of teams that are expected to be contenders next year that have been posted on here? We are not on any of those lists. Now, maybe those writers are all wrong, they may in fact all be wrong, who knows, we will see. But to say that Grant is now the Savior after just 1 good year with a top 10? NBA lottery pick is a little premature IMO. If we miss the NCAAT next year, is everybody still going to be so in love with him? I have already said that if next year is a non-ncaat year, that Grant should be given plenty of grace time, he has earned that. I would just like to see more than one year, that is all.

Look at Rhoades at VCU, I am sure that the VCU fans were all convinced that they were back to their old ways winning everything all the time after last year, then they slip this year, and now the doubts are back.
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  #489  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yep, no doubt about it, I did not think we would be this good this year, so I botched that. I own that.

However, I am still not convinced that we are better off with Grant vs. one of Archie's assistants. You could make the argument that had we stayed the course and hired one of Archie's guys, that we would have made the NCAAT the last 3 years in a row. I never bought the idea that Archie left an empty cupboard.

Next year without Obi will tell us a lot about Grant. We certainly appear headed in the right direction though.
If you really believe what you wrote You are absolutely clueless - PERIOD!!!! And you should have saved this post until today - it would have better on April first.
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  #490  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We will just have to agree to disagree...

OMG.

I invented a spray that keeps ghosts away from your house. Can you prove it DOESN'T work?

There's nothing to disagree about. You're just WRONG. If these guys were so good there would be multiple offers out there for them to take over D1 programs. They would be taking over a small school and making them a winner. It ain't happening. On the flipside, Dayton is a #1 seed, and AG is COY.

There's literally no scenario that provides more evidence that you're wrong. But we'll just "agree to disagree"?? FFS. I've got some ghost repellent to sell you. Works really well.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Who is to say I am wrong? That has yet to be determined. I don't think anybody annointed Archie as the Savior after the Elite 8 year. Have you seen the 5 or so lists of teams that are expected to be contenders next year that have been posted on here? We are not on any of those lists. Now, maybe those writers are all wrong, they may in fact all be wrong, who knows, we will see. But to say that Grant is now the Savior after just 1 good year with a top 10? NBA lottery pick is a little premature IMO. If we miss the NCAAT next year, is everybody still going to be so in love with him? I have already said that if next year is a non-ncaat year, that Grant should be given plenty of grace time, he has earned that. I would just like to see more than one year, that is all.

Look at Rhoades at VCU, I am sure that the VCU fans were all convinced that they were back to their old ways winning everything all the time after last year, then they slip this year, and now the doubts are back.
There you go - saving this for April 1st - that is more like it. Any other day - this post would just prove you are with out a doubt one of the most clueless posters on the board. Because it is impossible to see all the awards and where we were and put that crap up there in writing and it be anything other than an April fools joke.
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  #492  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Uh, you were wrong about a lot more than that. Here’s your post from mid-season 2018-19:



We made the NIT last year. We made the NCAA that wasn’t this year. No one in their right mind could say a likely 1-seed was “behind schedule.” And to somehow think we’d see an 8-9 year NCAA win drought? I feel pretty confident that would have been wrong, too. Not too many 1 or 2 seeds lose their opening game.

Sorry to dredge this up again, but you “own” a lot more than thinking we wouldn’t be any good this year.
Fair enough, I don't disagree with any of that. If we are so great, then how comes we are not on any of the lists for next year? Again, not just one writer overlooking us, they all overlooked us. I will concede that they could just all be wrong.
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  #493  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by AC91 View Post
1. did you notice with Archie, BG and OP that the only person on the bench in all those years who has gotten a good HC gig is Shaka Smart?

3. maybe Neil was tired of the coaching carousel...and the use of UD as a stepping stone. Tired of not being able to hire one of the assistants because they weren't developed enough. so he hires an experienced coach with real ties to UD who brings in assistants who have been a head coach (Solomon), have left to become a head coach (Jones) and an assistant who was wanted by a power 5 school (Kane). No way UD is not better off as a staff now than it was.
Georgia, Ron Jirsa, is not a good gig? Tom Crean disagrees.

Solomon and Jones were both fired. Griffin and Ostrom both had p5/BE experience.
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  #494  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Georgia, Ron Jirsa, is not a good gig? Tom Crean disagrees.

Solomon and Jones were both fired. Griffin and Ostrom both had p5/BE experience.
A response of ĎOh yeah? Well your grandma wears army bootsí would have had more credence than this response.

Itís not - ĎI was wrong - BUTí. Itís ĎI am wrong - period.í Try it. Itís not really that hard. You might just start getting invited to parties (other than UDSCOTTís) again.
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  #495  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Georgia, Ron Jirsa, is not a good gig? Tom Crean disagrees.

Solomon and Jones were both fired. Griffin and Ostrom both had p5/BE experience.

Jirsa was at Georgia before being fired and joining OP @ UD, after he was passed over for the gig in favor of BG, he eventually landed the head gig @ Marshall and was fired.



Solomon had P5 & BE experience, Darren Hertz also has P5 experience, so did Donnie Jones.


None of that matters in a bubble and I'm not sure what Jirsa has to do with anything related to an Archie assistant vs CAG.
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  #496  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Jirsa was at Georgia before being fired and joining OP @ UD, after he was passed over for the gig in favor of BG, he eventually landed the head gig @ Marshall and was fired.



Solomon had P5 & BE experience, Darren Hertz also has P5 experience, so did Donnie Jones.


None of that matters in a bubble and I'm not sure what Jirsa has to do with anything related to an Archie assistant vs CAG.
I was responding to this question:

1. did you notice with Archie, BG and OP that the only person on the bench in all those years who has gotten a good HC gig is Shaka Smart?

Jirsa had a decent gig at Gorgia I guess, Georgia has had some decent success historically. 2 years is not a long time though. Marshall is a tough job.
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  #497  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:26 AM
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If the Flyers don't end up in the top 3 next season, and anything other than a #1 seed in the tournament, I have zero doubt there will be one poster calling for Grant's head. He's laying the foundation for that argument already.

Some people just can't accept being wrong, and it's on full display in this thread.
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  #498  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair enough, I don't disagree with any of that. If we are so great, then how comes we are not on any of the lists for next year? Again, not just one writer overlooking us, they all overlooked us. I will concede that they could just all be wrong.
You don’t disagree with any of that? How about, “Yes, I was WRONG about all of that.” You’re unbelievable. You make hypothetical arguments on behalf of unproven assistant coaches while ignoring the FACTS that unfolded before your very eyes. You wonder why a few speculating writers aren’t predicting great things for next year’s Flyers while ignoring the FACT most speculating writers did likewise for this year’s Flyers. You use Obi’s NBA talent to explain away our amazing success this season while avoiding the FACT Coach Grant recruited him and helped develop that talent.

You’re like those folks who justify their opinions not with facts, but with a flimsy “because I said so” retort. Geez, you ought to buy stock in Gazoo’s ghost spray company.
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  #499  
Old 04-01-2020, 12:14 PM
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Maybe the players have something to do with the success of coaches.

Grant is fired at Alabama and some fans are really bothered by the hire. Got it. Any time a fired coach is given a second chance, there will be doubts. So be it.

Obi arrives in Dayton and Grant becomes coach of the year! Erase those doubts this year!

Was Grant different than when he was at Alabama? Maybe, he picked up a few pointers during his NBA experience. Maybe, he is a little wiser. Maybe. For the most part, he is the same coach.

All I know is that this season was beyond my wildest dreams and that is was a total effort. He helped coached great chemistry. The team bought into it and a once in a lifetime player brought a unique combination to the program of off the charts talent, work ethic, unselfish play, positive attitude and leadership. The coaches don't get enough credit either, because they put together some excellent game plans to help give UD advantages.

We can "what if" all we want, but I can't imagine any other combination of different players and coaches producing these type of results.

Great season. Congratulations coaches and team!
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Old 04-01-2020, 12:37 PM
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I continue to be amazed at the lack of civility of some of the posters on this discussion forum. It is a discussion forum, people are allowed to have different opinions and thoughts. Why do people start insulting each other and acting like they are in kindergarten any time there is a difference of opinion?
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