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Old 05-17-2019, 07:53 AM
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Lemons to lemonade

I had a thought this morning. Apologies if I'm late to the game on this idea and it's been discussed before.

Is it possible that us fans have been bemoaning our lemons while AG recognizes the ability to sell lemonade?

Here's what I'm thinking, and Frankie is a perfect example: Frankie sees that he's not going to cut it at UD so he's going to transfer a level "down. " No offense to Stony Brook, nearly every year a team or 2 from that conference has a darn fine year and is dangerous. But in the grand scheme, it's "down". He's going to get playing time and develop.

From the UD level, there are dozens if not hundreds of schools that are considered "down" 1 level while still being a decent place to play ball.

But given the landscape of college basketball today, if you were going to transfer "down" one level from a BIG or an SEC school, what would that look like? It seems like a Stony Brook would be considered 2 steps down IMO. A MAC school? Maybe, but doesn't that feel more like a step and a half?

Is it possible that instead of complaining about UD's status as a dreaded high-mid-major, AG came into the role recognizing a perceived weakness is actually a major strength: we have RELATIVELY limited competition at our level for transfers?

Sure, I don't want to be at this level. I want to be in the BE competing for those recruits right out of high school. Every Michigan, Alabama, tOSU, Florida, and Georgetown player coming out of high school has offers from 2 dozen schools at a similar level. But when those same players transfer, do they want to drop down all the way to Miami OH? No, they still want high level competition but they want to play big minutes, so now instead of 2 dozen good offers they're looking at the next level down that only includes a small handful. UD,VCU, and a couple of others.

And given the volume of transfers, AG basically just has to wait for pennies from heaven.

Could it be that with our fan support and just-good-enough conference, we're actually perfectly positioned to have a real shot at every Ibi, Jordan, Chase, Charles, Vee, etc?
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:00 AM
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UD has trouble recruiting top recruits from high school. Why? Good question. UD has locked in some really good players only to have a big name school swoop in at the last minute and steal the prospect away. Ohio State, West Virginia, Cal, Kansas State and more have done that.

Now UD's strategy is to go after the transfer recruits who were disillusioned with what they were promised vs. their experience. Jordan Sibert was the first example. He did not cut it at first, so he was parked on the bench. Archie took Jordan and promised to develop him, nurture him. It worked.

UD went after Ibi Watson hard is what I understand, but Michigan swooped him up. Like Sibert, he was stuck on the end of the bench and disillusioned. Grant and UD promised to not give up on him and develop him. Could Jordy and Chase be similar patterns? I think and hope so. Those three if they develop could be among the top players in the A10 in the next two years.

For now UD strategy is to get rebound transfers. Some of these players can be top players in the A10.

It is frustrating to see Samari Curtis, Mr. Basketball in Ohio look at any and every program except UD.

I wish UD had a better name recognition among recruits to prevent the big school poaching. Meanwhile, I expect to see more wins based upon more good rebound transfers.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
UD has trouble recruiting top recruits from high school. Why? Good question. UD has locked in some really good players only to have a big name school swoop in at the last minute and steal the prospect away. Ohio State, West Virginia, Cal, Kansas State and more have done that.

Now UD's strategy is to go after the transfer recruits who were disillusioned with what they were promised vs. their experience. Jordan Sibert was the first example. He did not cut it at first, so he was parked on the bench. Archie took Jordan and promised to develop him, nurture him. It worked.

UD went after Ibi Watson hard is what I understand, but Michigan swooped him up. Like Sibert, he was stuck on the end of the bench and disillusioned. Grant and UD promised to not give up on him and develop him. Could Jordy and Chase be similar patterns? I think and hope so. Those three if they develop could be among the top players in the A10 in the next two years.

For now UD strategy is to get rebound transfers. Some of these players can be top players in the A10.

It is frustrating to see Samari Curtis, Mr. Basketball in Ohio look at any and every program except UD.

I wish UD had a better name recognition among recruits to prevent the big school poaching. Meanwhile, I expect to see more wins based upon more good rebound transfers.
Youíre saying Dayton University doesnít have name recognition???
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
UD has trouble recruiting top recruits from high school. Why? Good question. UD has locked in some really good players only to have a big name school swoop in at the last minute and steal the prospect away. Ohio State, West Virginia, Cal, Kansas State and more have done that.

Now UD's strategy is to go after the transfer recruits who were disillusioned with what they were promised vs. their experience. Jordan Sibert was the first example. He did not cut it at first, so he was parked on the bench. Archie took Jordan and promised to develop him, nurture him. It worked.

UD went after Ibi Watson hard is what I understand, but Michigan swooped him up. Like Sibert, he was stuck on the end of the bench and disillusioned. Grant and UD promised to not give up on him and develop him. Could Jordy and Chase be similar patterns? I think and hope so. Those three if they develop could be among the top players in the A10 in the next two years.

For now UD strategy is to get rebound transfers. Some of these players can be top players in the A10.

It is frustrating to see Samari Curtis, Mr. Basketball in Ohio look at any and every program except UD.

I wish UD had a better name recognition among recruits to prevent the big school poaching. Meanwhile, I expect to see more wins based upon more good rebound transfers.


There's a really easy and obvious answer to your question and that's the conference.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
UD has trouble recruiting top recruits from high school. Why? Good question. UD has locked in some really good players only to have a big name school swoop in at the last minute and steal the prospect away. Ohio State, West Virginia, Cal, Kansas State and more have done that.

Now UD's strategy is to go after the transfer recruits who were disillusioned with what they were promised vs. their experience. Jordan Sibert was the first example. He did not cut it at first, so he was parked on the bench. Archie took Jordan and promised to develop him, nurture him. It worked.

UD went after Ibi Watson hard is what I understand, but Michigan swooped him up. Like Sibert, he was stuck on the end of the bench and disillusioned. Grant and UD promised to not give up on him and develop him. Could Jordy and Chase be similar patterns? I think and hope so. Those three if they develop could be among the top players in the A10 in the next two years.

For now UD strategy is to get rebound transfers. Some of these players can be top players in the A10.

It is frustrating to see Samari Curtis, Mr. Basketball in Ohio look at any and every program except UD.

I wish UD had a better name recognition among recruits to prevent the big school poaching. Meanwhile, I expect to see more wins based upon more good rebound transfers.
You're assuming we went after Samari Curtis with any vigor. I don't believe we did, and certainly not after he de-committed.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
You're assuming we went after Samari Curtis with any vigor. I don't believe we did, and certainly not after he de-committed.
I think they tried but it was clear for whatever reason he wasn't biting with Dayton so they focused their efforts elsewhere
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:26 PM
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He clearly wants to play in a big conference with exposure.......
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Youíre saying Dayton University doesnít have name recognition???
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Now that's funny.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:39 PM
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If it's the conference , then how in the hell does Gonzaga get in the top ten almost every year .
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UD74 View Post
If it's the conference , then how in the hell does Gonzaga get in the top ten almost every year .
Because they consistently dominate their conference, win big games OOC and make deep runs into the tournament. Sustained success drives everything.

How do you get there? That's the million (or 3M or 5M) dollar question...
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by UD74 View Post
If it's the conference , then how in the hell does Gonzaga get in the top ten almost every year .
I actually looked at Gonzaga's recruiting with available information since the turn of the century

They had a real uptick in recruiting once they had gone to the tourney for 7-8 years straight

http://udpride.com/forums/showthread...churchill+odia
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:21 PM
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Just win baby. In many ways, the transfer approach is better. More mature mentally & physically, and much less likely to bolt again after sitting a year. Curious we haven't dented the grad transfer market yet.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:53 PM
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Would seem the grad transfer is a different animal. Generally the player has only one year and itís immediate. So heís looking for a team with an open need where he is virtually guaranteed a role, probably as a starter. Would also seem that theyíd be looking for a team likely to have post season success. Theyíre not buying into any long term vision.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UD74 View Post
If it's the conference, then how in the hell does Gonzaga get in the top ten almost every year .

I said this once before, but UAC has written that an AD told him Gonzaga sold their soul to get where they are. UAC has not commented further. Maybe he could elaborate or clarify.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I said this once before, but UAC has written that an AD told him Gonzaga sold their soul to get where they are. UAC has not commented further. Maybe he could elaborate or clarify.
Iíd sell UDs soul but Iím not sure we even have one
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:12 PM
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I don't know but I been told
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue View Post
Just win baby. In many ways, the transfer approach is better. . .

Jerry Tarkanian: 'I like transfers from the Pac 10 - somebody has already bought them a car.'

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Old 05-18-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
A big legged woman ain't got no soul
Leave our cheerleaders out of this...OK?
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:47 AM
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I think AG & Co have done amazing in a very short period of time with the transfers they have brought in. We all have seen Obi play and some have seen the transfers play during practice. I trust the comments from those that have seen these transfers. I trust Obi when he says we have two starting fives.

The number of transfers is growing every year. If we can continue to land 4-Star recruits via transfer, Iím all in. And as others have stated, just win. Thatís how UD starts landing 4-stars out of high school.

The other thing Iím impressed with is the team culture and chemistry AG & Co is building. It took them a grand total of one year to clean house and set the standard he expects and everyone seems to have bought in. Thatís not easy to do in this ď me-firstĒ era of sports.
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I said this once before, but UAC has written that an AD told him Gonzaga sold their soul to get where they are. UAC has not commented further. Maybe he could elaborate or clarify.

UAC???
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I said this once before, but UAC has written that an AD told him Gonzaga sold their soul to get where they are. UAC has not commented further. Maybe he could elaborate or clarify.
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
UAC???
Get back on the meds, you’re talking to yourself again
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:06 AM
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The A10 membership...doesn't help.

Being in the City of Dayton...doesn't help.

Being inconsistent...doesn't help.

Gonzaga is a different animal. All things considered, they have had sustained success over decades and are in an area where a mid-major can thrive. The overwhelming majority of mid-major UD type schools are in the center of the country east. Out west is the perfect place for a mid-major to thrive due to the simple landscape of college ball.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:59 AM
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I could be remembering wrong, but Gonzaga started their build of long term success partially on foreign students, in which they had advantage being on the west coast and not much competition for these players.

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Old 05-20-2019, 08:25 AM
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I'll add that just as this program was being taken to another level with AM we had the unfortunate death of Big Steve. I have no doubt UD was escalating to another level with him and right now we could be talking about UD being not only a NCAA tourney fixture going on 4-5 years in a row but one who could climb deep in the tourney.

Big Steve and his incredible play might have just told the next couple of BIG HS freshman/soph. that it's pretty cool to play at UD, one's game can flourish, you can advance pretty deep in the tourney and you can also be a pretty high NBA draft pick.

Unfortunately, with the tragic loss of a young man's life, the program, itself, was kind of put in a stahl position...Obi might be turning that around and maybe with another year of him in the program we can really see happen the glimpses of what we imagined just a few years ago..

Just saying that a program like UD needs a few more good things to happen to them than anything that could/can set it back....

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Old 05-20-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
The A10 membership...doesn't help.

Being in the City of Dayton...doesn't help.

Being inconsistent...doesn't help.

Gonzaga is a different animal. All things considered, they have had sustained success over decades and are in an area where a mid-major can thrive. The overwhelming majority of mid-major UD type schools are in the center of the country east. Out west is the perfect place for a mid-major to thrive due to the simple landscape of college ball.
I agree with two of the three. A10 with limited TV and poor name recognition hurts.

Not dominating the league (which is now weaker with the loss of Butler, Temple and X) hurts as well.

I believe top players don't really care about the city of Dayton. If you look at where many of the top colleges are located, the same issue exists. For African American players, the lack of African Americans on campus can hurt, but again the same is true for a number of top college programs.


I think the A10 and mediocre performance are the top reasons. If the program becomes a top 25 program, the coaches and administration can sell around any weakness of the campus and city life.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
The A10 membership...doesn't help.

Being in the City of Dayton...doesn't help.

Being inconsistent...doesn't help.

Gonzaga is a different animal. All things considered, they have had sustained success over decades and are in an area where a mid-major can thrive. The overwhelming majority of mid-major UD type schools are in the center of the country east. Out west is the perfect place for a mid-major to thrive due to the simple landscape of college ball.
#3 is the only one that I agree with. The A10 and the city are not holding us back, we are holding ourselves back.

And I do not agree with the Gonzaga stuff either, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, VCU, etc. all thrived not being located out West.

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Old 05-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
#3 is the only one that I agree with. The A10 and the city are not holding us back, we are holding ourselves back.

And I do not agree with the Gonzaga stuff either, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, VCU, etc. all thrived not being located out West.
Have Creighton and VCU out performed us by that much lately?
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
#3 is the only one that I agree with. The A10 and the city are not holding us back, we are holding ourselves back.

And I do not agree with the Gonzaga stuff either, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, VCU, etc. all thrived not being located out West.
In recruiting the A10 absolutely holds back recruiting

Gonzaga stepped up there recruiting after 7-8 years of going to the tourney and they've had an edge interanational recruiting with their assistant Tommy Lloyd

When Butler, Creighton were outside the Big East and Xavier was in the A10 they did a much better job of evaluating talent. They were getting 3 star guys mostly but they didn't have near the number of misses Dayton had
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:53 PM
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I've post this several teams but this is a pretty good run down of how being in the AAC hurts UC

Conference:

Big East vs the American. Again, no contest. While this new edition of the Big East might not match the 80's version, it still carries star power and name recognition. Playing the conference tournament at historic Madison Square Garden only adds to that. The American is the conference UC can't wait to get out of, offering opponents like Tulane, South Florida and East Carolina.

A former coach posed this to me: "Let's me ask you a simple question: If you were a recruit, which conference would you rather play in? Which arena would you play in? This isn't that hard."

"If you are selling the American and 5th/3rd, who exactly is buying?" said a coach I talked with.

"Keith Williams (in-coming UC recruit) picked UC over UD because of the higher level of prestige,but if a Power 5 conference were in the mix, he would have gone there," said a recruiting analyst.

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Old 05-20-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I've post this several teams but this is a pretty good run down of how being in the AAC hurts UC

Conference:

Big East vs the American. Again, no contest. While this new edition of the Big East might not match the 80's version, it still carries star power and name recognition. Playing the conference tournament at historic Madison Square Garden only adds to that. The American is the conference UC can't wait to get out of, offering opponents like Tulane, South Florida and East Carolina.

A former coach posed this to me: "Let's me ask you a simple question: If you were a recruit, which conference would you rather play in? Which arena would you play in? This isn't that hard."

"If you are selling the American and 5th/3rd, who exactly is buying?" said a coach I talked with.

"Keith Williams (in-coming UC recruit) picked UC over UD because of the higher level of prestige,but if a Power 5 conference were in the mix, he would have gone there," said a recruiting analyst.

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/l...-what-xu-does/
So we have done very little over the past 25 years to market ourselves as attractive and yet we expect to jump 2 levels in the conference hierarchy? Because of our great fans and facility?

The American would be a huge upgrade for UD as it stands now. Iíd take Tulane and East Carolina to get the top half of the conference in the arena. If if if UD and VCU were to be invited to join and UD said no, that would IMO be a huge mistake.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
I'll add that just as this program was being taken to another level with AM we had the unfortunate death of Big Steve. I have no doubt UD was escalating to another level with him and right now we could be talking about UD being not only a NCAA tourney fixture going on 4-5 years in a row but one who could climb deep in the tourney.

Big Steve and his incredible play might have just told the next couple of BIG HS freshman/soph. that it's pretty cool to play at UD, one's game can flourish, you can advance pretty deep in the tourney and you can also be a pretty high NBA draft pick.

Unfortunately, with the tragic loss of a young man's life, the program, itself, was kind of put in a stahl position...Obi might be turning that around and maybe with another year of him in the program we can really see happen the glimpses of what we imagined just a few years ago..

Just saying that a program like UD needs a few more good things to happen to them than anything that could/can set it back....


Disagree... steve would have been a good player; but the recruiting was pretty bad after archies last graduating class.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
Disagree... steve would have been a good player; but the recruiting was pretty bad after archies last graduating class.
I don't think your interpreting what's being said. Steve was lost to this world well before he defined himself as a player. UD only enjoyed him far less than the other 1-2 years he would have played. He could have been an enormous piece of a great run the following season and who knows how far this team could have gone.....Well-placed on the BB road map...

The program could have possibly prospered to a level it's not been at with his/their success. The kid was going to be a true difference-maker. Who knows maybe he would have been a 1st round pick and another big 6'11" player who never had UD in his sights would have been the NEXT great BIG to follow Steve.

UD has had it's share of heart-aches over the years and, obviously, while not at the same measure of losing a life it's hard for mid-major program to go thru with what happed to Pierre, with KAVS and with the other two clowns that got busted for stealing right before the season started...

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Old 05-20-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
...with KAVS and with the other two clowns that got busted for stealing right before the season started...
Clowns have it tough enough these day, why pile on?? Clowns deserve respect!!
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
So we have done very little over the past 25 years to market ourselves as attractive and yet we expect to jump 2 levels in the conference hierarchy? Because of our great fans and facility?

The American would be a huge upgrade for UD as it stands now. Iíd take Tulane and East Carolina to get the top half of the conference in the arena. If if if UD and VCU were to be invited to join and UD said no, that would IMO be a huge mistake.
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I'd love to be in the American

I posted that to further the point that conference affiliation affects recruiting
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:39 PM
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:08 PM
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Ok, that really is funny. Keeping it light !
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'd love to be in the American

I posted that to further the point that conference affiliation affects recruiting
The A10 is stagnant; we have very few home conference games to look forward to; the AAC would bring much more excitement to the basketball season.

AGís master plan appears to be bringing in some very good talent; hopefully the results will be the same.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:25 PM
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With conferences, things can always change, but I was told by Neil that the AAC has no interest in adding another school for BB (without football). Witchita was added to offset Navy who plays BB in a different league. I prefer the American to NBE which is why I asked Neil about it.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Get back on the meds, youíre talking to yourself again

Actually I was talking to UAC, but apparently he's too busy trashing Trump on the Off-Topic Forum to read anything about basketball.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:03 PM
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My apologies....

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I said this once before, but UAC has written that an AD told him Gonzaga sold their soul to get where they are. UAC has not commented further. Maybe he could elaborate or clarify.
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
UAC???
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Actually I was talking to UAC, but apparently he's too busy trashing Trump on the Off-Topic Forum to read anything about basketball.
You are right longtimer, I did miss your posts. My apologies.

Quite a few years ago I was told by an AD that Gonzaga "sold its soul to get where it is in men's basketball". I did not and will not comment further because the conversation was private. Considering the source, the context and the fact that this is a UD sports message board I don't think it would be appropriate to say anything else.

Again, sorry. Usually when I see your name pop up I rush to learn what you have to say...especially when it comes to basketball.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I've post this several teams but this is a pretty good run down of how being in the AAC hurts UC

Conference:

Big East vs the American. Again, no contest. While this new edition of the Big East might not match the 80's version, it still carries star power and name recognition. Playing the conference tournament at historic Madison Square Garden only adds to that. The American is the conference UC can't wait to get out of, offering opponents like Tulane, South Florida and East Carolina.

A former coach posed this to me: "Let's me ask you a simple question: If you were a recruit, which conference would you rather play in? Which arena would you play in? This isn't that hard."

"If you are selling the American and 5th/3rd, who exactly is buying?" said a coach I talked with.

"Keith Williams (in-coming UC recruit) picked UC over UD because of the higher level of prestige,but if a Power 5 conference were in the mix, he would have gone there," said a recruiting analyst.

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/l...-what-xu-does/
UC is crying about winning 30 games and not getting a protected/top 4 seed but at the same time refuses to play a 15/15 or better schedule. What a bunch of babies. It is all about the money, if they are not willing to forego 1 home game, then they lose the right to whine about their seed IMO. The AAC is not a p5 conference, you have to schedule up if you want to get a better seed. I am so sick of the whining.

They did not get a top 4 seed because they did not beat enough good teams. They do not play anybody. They know that their schedule is weaker, but they refuse to address the problem. I have zero sympathy for them not getting a better seed.

Cry me a river.

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Old 05-20-2019, 10:12 PM
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From the link:

But according to a college basketball analyst I spoke with: "It's insulting to guys like Mario Mercurio (XU Dir. Administration) and whoever used to do Bob Huggins' scheduling in the Conference USA days. Figuring out how to manipulate the RPI and SOS while playing in a terrible conference is not a new and impossible task that only UC has to figure out. UC already did it in CUSA. So did Xavier in the A10 and plenty of other schools that have tried to make that jump from mid-major to high-major."
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
I believe top players don't really care about the city of Dayton. If you look at where many of the top colleges are located, the same issue exists. For African American players, the lack of African Americans on campus can hurt, but again the same is true for a number of top college programs.


I think the A10 and mediocre performance are the top reasons. If the program becomes a top 25 program, the coaches and administration can sell around any weakness of the campus and city life.
While I agree with your last paragraph, I also think that schools like Xavier are able to incorporate more of the big city feel to what they have to offer. On any given day, if you google search Dayton, Ohio it isn't all rosy. Basketball or not, I would imagine that college athletes want to know what the area has to offer off the court and outside of the classroom. It mattered to me.

IMO, it is easy for adults to see what UD has to offer academically and basketball wise and understand that it would be "impossible" to pass up that type of opportunity. I don't think that is as easy to see by an 18 year old who may not see that. I guarantee that the social aspect of college is huge and doesn't hurt one bit. Trust me when I say if there were a couple schools tied as locations...a social aspect with a hell of a showing by your host players may make or break the signing.
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
So we have done very little over the past 25 years to market ourselves as attractive and yet we expect to jump 2 levels in the conference hierarchy? Because of our great fans and facility?

The American would be a huge upgrade for UD as it stands now. Iíd take Tulane and East Carolina to get the top half of the conference in the arena. If if if UD and VCU were to be invited to join and UD said no, that would IMO be a huge mistake.
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Yep...baby steps...and I think an American with UD and VCU is better than the current A10.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:02 PM
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Lifelong Flyers post

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Yep...baby steps...and I think an American with UD and VCU is better than the current A10.
shocka, I think an Atlantic Coast or a Big 10 with UD is better than the current A10.

Refer to Lifelong Flyer's post re what Neil told him.

There is no circumstance for which the American will have an interest in UD...other that a massive conference shakeup of some sort resulting in a major change in the make up of the Power 5 cartel.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:29 AM
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I donít have the history with UD a fan/alum that many on here have. So the following might be a very uneducated comment. But as an out-of-State fan looking in, and the years of discussions about moving conferences, there is one question I have never seen asked or answered. And Iím also factoring in the capital improvements to UD Arena and other facilities on campus the last 12 years or so...which appears to solidify the commitment to the current sports programs, especially basketball.

Is the next step to raise the funds to bring scholarship football back to UD if this appears to be the pathway to conference improvement? Is this even being discussed when other avenues with potential conferences seem to indicate no opportunities to get an invitation?
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:12 AM
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My experience with UD football goes back to my childhood days in the early 50's. Sneaking out of my aunt's house with a cousin who lived on Stuhmiller. And into Baujan stadium to watch a Flyer football game. It was a trip and it was exciting.

I hated to hear decades ago that football was forever out of the picture as a scholarship sport.

That said, to return to those days would be to regress to a financial model that wasn't working for us then, and wouldn't work for us now.
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  #48  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:18 AM
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scholarship football isn't coming back.
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  #49  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
There is no circumstance for which the American will have an interest in UD...other that a massive conference shakeup of some sort resulting in a major change in the make up of the Power 5 cartel.
I donít agree with that and I donít think the Commissioner of the American agrees with that. Not having an interest now doesnít mean thereís no circumstance they ever would.

I think the far more likely scenario vs. UD taking on scholarship football again is that lower level D1 teams start dropping it. UAB dropped it, then brought it back. Which was the better decision?
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
I donít agree with that and I donít think the Commissioner of the American agrees with that. Not having an interest now doesnít mean thereís no circumstance they ever would.

I think the far more likely scenario vs. UD taking on scholarship football again is that lower level D1 teams start dropping it. UAB dropped it, then brought it back. Which was the better decision?
Re the American, I didn't say "never", I said no chance other than a major shake-up altering the make up of the major conference landscape.

UD, a private school, will never again (this time I did say "never") play scholarship football. Note the special circumstances by which only two Catholic schools play FBS football.

Scholarship football is a money pit in which even members of Power 5 conferences lose money in spite of receiving many millions from TV contracts.

A few private FCS schools play scholarship FB.....they don't lose many million, just millions.

UD's model is close to perfect and with our highly unusual revenue from men's BB we are the envy of many similarly situated schools. We have one problem that we have been unable to solve for decades: Elevating the performance of men's BB on a consistent basis to a level commensurate with its revenue generation and facilities. For a few years recently we were pretty close to where we need to be. Hopefully Coach Grant will soon have the Flyers back on track.
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  #51  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:13 AM
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FWIW, the AAU coaches I talk to - without exception - absolutely LOVE Anthony Grant. These relationships are just as important as they are with the HS coaches simply because AAU coaches have as much influence on where a player goes (out of HS or transfers) as anyone, including parents.

IMRO, My Team is about to explode on the national scene. Doubters beware...I'm taking names and numbers.

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  #52  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:26 AM
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As someone that has a very close personal friend of an Assistant AD at an AAC, they were very serious about adding UD, VCU, and WSU. It wasn't first one to commit gets the spot. Officals from the AAC and AAC schools visited all 3 schools and talks were underway. The reason all 3 did not join was because the bottom schools like Tulane and East Carolina did not want to add 3 more schools above them and would only vote to add one school. The top AAC schools and the AAC Conference wanted to add 3 schools for basketball only.

From what I hear, not from my AD friend, but another person who seems to be in the know, VCU and UD did not want to join without the other and that VCU was the school that seemed to be the most reluctant to want to join the AAC. I do not know if that is true or not, but that is why it was WSU added.

Take it for what it is worth. I have posed the first part of this before in the other thread on getting into another conference. The second part is something I have just heard more recently. I know others posted conversations with Neil above, so I thought I would reshare this for the people that do not want to dive through a thread that is well over 1000 post to see it.
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  #53  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:39 AM
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Winning opens up possibilities, As Rollo has stated, we are on the edge of national recognition. After two difficult years where personnel was a problem, AG has the horses and then some. Hard to figure where our future lies but the Flyers should be more than ready when (or if) the opportunity arises. Dominate ( along with VCU) the A-10 or make a move, either way the Flyers will be ready. AG is building relationships within the recruiting world, bodes well for the Flyers.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
As someone that has a very close personal friend of an Assistant AD at an AAC, they were very serious about adding UD, VCU, and WSU. It wasn't first one to commit gets the spot. Officials from the AAC and AAC schools visited all 3 schools and talks were underway. The top AAC schools and the AAC Conference wanted to add 3 schools for basketball only.

So UAC is wrong???
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:50 AM
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Houston
Tulsa
SMU
Wichita State
Tulane
Memphis
USF
UCF
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU
Temple
UD
VCU

vs.

SLU
URI
UMass
Richmond
Duquesne
SBU
SJU
LaSalle
Fordham
GMU
GWU
Davidson
UD
VCU

is a no-brainer to me. Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn, Houston, UCF, WSU, and SMU have all been top 25 teams in recent memory.
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  #56  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
Houston
Tulsa
SMU
Wichita State
Tulane
Memphis
USF
UCF
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU
Temple
UD
VCU

vs.

SLU
URI
UMass
Richmond
Duquesne
SBU
SJU
LaSalle
Fordham
GMU
GWU
Davidson
UD
VCU

is a no-brainer to me. Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn, Houston, UCF, WSU, and SMU have all been top 25 teams in recent memory.
But kids may stop going to UConn because its in Storrs, CT and the closest city, Hartford, is not exactly a happening city...at least that's what I can gather from this board that location matters.
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  #57  
Old 05-21-2019, 01:08 PM
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Lifelong Flyers post # 38

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
So UAC is wrong???
I don't know why, but I sense "delight" in your post longtimer.

I was expressing an opinion based on close association with an AAC school and numerous statements by the AAC commissioner.

Of the comments on this subject I think Lifelong Flyer's post re Neil's comments is the most specific and most direct. Summarizing Neil's remarks: WSU ( a non-FB school) was added specifically to offset Navy (a non-BB school). And the AAC has no interest in adding another non-FB basketball school. Lifelong Flyer said he heard this directly from Neil. No in between parties involved.

The American conference is an FBS football conference.

However, that is not entirely inconsistent with the AAC having "interest" in schools like VCU and UD, even to the point of visiting. Why? Because the AAC is the successor to the old Big East. And if there ever was a conference aware of being blind-sided by sudden entirely unexpected developments it's the old BE (and its remaining schools) and similarly situated schools.

I think the American may have in its DNA a "be prepared for anything at any time" mentality. The American is rock solid committed to being comprised of FBS FB schools....until it isn't. Preparing for the unexpected "until it isn't" scenario triggered by an event such as the Big 12 expanding from 10 to 12 or even 14 schools and poaching a few current AAC schools could easily explain AAC "interest" in knowing all it can about schools like UD and VCU....while at the same time having no serious plans for ever adding those schools, consistent with what Neil explained to Lifelong Flyer Fan.

The American is comprised or large (primarily) institutions committed to top tier football. The conference is a notch below the Power 5s but well above other FBS conferences. But the conference leadership knows full well that a few schools, while dedicated to AAC excellence, would jump in a heartbeat to a Power 5. That could happen, leaving the remaining schools in a real jam. Thus, having a "what if" plan up and ready for implementation makes perfect sense. And such a plan might well involve the likes of VCU and UD...meaning the surviving conference would change fundamentally from an FBS FB conference to a hybrid like old BE.

Until such a hypothetical actually occurs, if it ever does, I believe Neil's remarks about UD and the AAC are the ones worth paying attention to.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
But kids may stop going to UConn because its in Storrs, CT and the closest city, Hartford, is not exactly a happening city...at least that's what I can gather from this board that location matters.
get them down to Bridgeport!
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:01 PM
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The City

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
get them down to Bridgeport!
Hartford is very much like Dayton.

UConn is located about 35 minutes to the East of Hartford way out in the country. That used to be an issue for students...not scholarship BB players though. Recall during Jim Calhoun's 25 years UConn was among the top five programs nationally.

Two things have changed. Calhoun is gone...his hand-picked successor lasted only five years (winning a National Championship in year 2). Now Dan Hurley is coach and is rebuilding after three poor years. The second thing that's happened is that the vicinity of UConn, especially the town, Storrs, has undergone major development over the last ten years or so and now is really very nice. Still 35 minutes from Hartford and still out in the country...but now a very nice campus environment...a college town.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
shocka, I think an Atlantic Coast or a Big 10 with UD is better than the current A10.

Refer to Lifelong Flyer's post re what Neil told him.

There is no circumstance for which the American will have an interest in UD...other that a massive conference shakeup of some sort resulting in a major change in the make up of the Power 5 cartel.
My post was of no concern with what the American wants or what Neil stated to others.

My point was that the American is a step up from the A10...which goes against what others have said in other threads about them being equals. This isn't the case and for basketball...the American would be better with UD and VCU in it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Hartford is very much like Dayton.

UConn is located about 35 minutes to the East of Hartford way out in the country. That used to be an issue for students...not scholarship BB players though. Recall during Jim Calhoun's 25 years UConn was among the top five programs nationally.

Two things have changed. Calhoun is gone...his hand-picked successor lasted only five years (winning a National Championship in year 2). Now Dan Hurley is coach and is rebuilding after three poor years. The second thing that's happened is that the vicinity of UConn, especially the town, Storrs, has undergone major development over the last ten years or so and now is really very nice. Still 35 minutes from Hartford and still out in the country...but now a very nice campus environment...a college town.

Hartford and the whole state have seen better days.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:15 AM
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OMG People

Since the season's end I've taken a break from posting but spend at least once a day checking in to see if there is any newsworthy posts about additions to the program .......

Seems this off-season is much ado about not much. Hence my feeling that this year is extremely sloooow in finding any new talent. It may be coupled with the expectation that the returning crew along with the crew that sat out has that promise of better things to come.

Therefore, the "I can't wait for November" feeling is pretty strong right now. I was hoping that some exciting new player would land in our collective laps to compliment what we have.

So as I wait and read these posts across all the different threads I've been busy taking those lemons and turning them into HARD CIDER.

In the meantime ................
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  #63  
Old 05-23-2019, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Since the season's end I've taken a break from posting but spend at least once a day checking in to see if there is any newsworthy posts about additions to the program .......

Seems this off-season is much ado about not much. Hence my feeling that this year is extremely sloooow in finding any new talent. It may be coupled with the expectation that the returning crew along with the crew that sat out has that promise of better things to come.

Therefore, the "I can't wait for November" feeling is pretty strong right now. I was hoping that some exciting new player would land in our collective laps to compliment what we have.

So as I wait and read these posts across all the different threads I've been busy taking those lemons and turning them into HARD CIDER.

In the meantime ................

Just killin' time til Obi makes a decision . . .

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