Be careful What you wish for!

[Larry67]

Be careful what you wish for. Colleges traditionally formed sports conference affiliations or independent traditional rivalries with schools which were geographically close to them. Road games could be easily attended by students and alumni. And, after all, what would be the purpose of team sports which could not be seen live by students and alumni? Non-revenue sports retained viability because of accessible and inexpensive travel costs. A few out of conference games and tournaments were traditionally scheduled in more remote destinations to gain national recognition and exposure but the majority of games were played within reasonable travel distances. Away games were frequently played in places where a significant percentage of a school’s alumni resided, attended games, and enthusiastically participated in pre or post game gatherings.

That all began to change as television began to broadcast more and more games and as airplane travel became less expensive. However, most college sports leagues have still retained a regional character.

It’s possible, as a lasting consequence of the pandemic, that we will begin to witness a return to closer regional rivalries in the future.

The A-10 conference has retained a reasonable amount of regional character, plays its games where most of our alumni live, and is at least somewhat accessible to non-revenue teams (not to mention the band and the Red Scare). However, our rivalries are not as intense or as passionate as those which we traditionally enjoyed in the 50s through the 80s.

And now it seems there is a somewhat sudden support for affiliation with a league with two schools from Texas, two from Florida, and others from Kansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, North Carolina and Louisiana. How many of our alumni live in those places? How many of our fans who we are proud to say “travel so well” will be attending games in those places? How many games will feature our pep band? Cheer leaders? Red Scare?

I don’t think so!

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[TX Flyer]

Glad we could help Fordham get to 500 people in attendance when we play there

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Larry67 And now it seems there is a somewhat sudden support for affiliation with a league with two schools from Texas, two from Florida, and others from Kansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, North Carolina and Louisiana. How many of our alumni live in those places? How many of our fans who we are proud to say “travel so well” will be attending games in those places? How many games will feature our pep band? Cheer leaders? Red Scare? I don’t think so!

Won't argue about alumni reach, but band/cheer don't travel unless it is the A10 tournament, NCAA tournament, or there is a decision (and usually a donation) to send them to tournaments...such as Orlando and Chicago. Back in the day they would travel back and forth for X/UD game and IIRC, Miami. They don't go to your normal OOC or A10 game.

Face it...alumni reach is large in places like Chicago, Philly, Pittsburgh, some on the east cost in the NJ/NY area. Chicago is the only place where we scheduled "extra" games in the past few years with an alumni draw. That was evidenced by the union hall rented out a few years ago that was packed (and ran out of beer) next to the united center thanks to alumni.

Our OOC and A10 games that aren't a day trip aren't really attended by many fans unless it is one of a few places...primarily St. Louis, Philly, and Pittsburgh. Those are places that get home crowd fans to travel for the weekend and if the game is during the week...no go for many. Either with individual travel or sponsored. Short of booking Miami, X, or any other Ohio, MAC, or KY school...you aren't going to see any increased travel by fans than you have now...and even those games are subject to whether they are weekend games or are really close...like EKU, NKU, etc. Fans attend holiday tournaments because of the destination and not the opponent.

You are correct about regional conferences. Today the money rivals the travel costs for teams to go farther away. IMO conference membership is more about money, TV, and regional exposure for athletic and student recruitment than it is to make it easy for a ST holder from the Arena to go watch a game. Those historical reasons are out the window considering anyone with a cell phone and ESPN+ can virtually get any game in the country from the passenger seat of their car.

Times have changed over decades of conference affiliation and obviously changed this year due to the WuFlu.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[jack72]

Not sure who, or how many, are supporting conferences with schools in the same state or region. I have not seen, heard or read it. The MAC and other smaller sports budgets may do it, but no way are the TX and OSU's of the world going back to such a concept. The attendance and money get a big boost because Zaga plays KS and Duke, and AL travels to FL and AR, and TX to WV.

[DallasFlyer]

A lot of alumni and supporters for sure. I see folks in UD gear all the time down here.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SeasonTicketFan]

The biggest gap in the current program is TV revenue. Neil stated earlier that UD gets more revenue from one home game than all of TV for a year.

UD had a big swing and a miss in the 1960s/1970s when they did not get into any of the national networks as they formed.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan UD had a big swing and a miss in the 1960s/1970s when they did not get into any of the national networks as they formed.

Eddie Einhorn in the 70's. The rumor was that the brass at UD didn't think the season ticket holders would be happy with Saturday afternoon games. Since the Arena had just been built they wanted to please those who had laid out a lot of money and preferred Saturday night games as a social outing.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer A lot of alumni and supporters for sure. I see folks in UD gear all the time down here. Posted via Mobile Device

Anytime I'm out where I can wear UD swag I do. I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped by someone who says - "hey UD". Airports (including DFW, ATL, SLC, ORD, and Sao Paulo), nationals parks, including out in the sticks in Glacier National, and Yellowstone.

Never ceases to amaze me how friendly our alumni are.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff Anytime I'm out where I can wear UD swag I do. I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped by someone who says - "hey UD". Airports (including DFW, ATL, SLC, ORD, and Sao Paulo), nationals parks, including out in the sticks in Glacier National, and Yellowstone. Never ceases to amaze me how friendly our alumni are.

We have the same experiences all the time. We where UD gear everywhere we go.

We were wearing in China visiting our daughter sight seeing in Shanghai at 6 on a Friday and hear ‘Go UD’ - some of the first English we had heard.

They weren’t alums but were 3 Illinois students that started talking about Kyle and Kendall and said they were huge fans. It was kinda of amazing.

[Don]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Eddie Einhorn in the 70's. The rumor was that the brass at UD didn't think the season ticket holders would be happy with Saturday afternoon games. Since the Arena had just been built they wanted to please those who had laid out a lot of money and preferred Saturday night games as a social outing.

Another reason I've heard is that, at that time, we were getting more from WHIO for telecasts than ESPN was offering.

[UncleFester]

Originally Posted by Don Another reason I've heard is that, at that time, we were getting more from WHIO for telecasts than ESPN was offering.

ESPN didn’t exist then.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyer Dave]

Could someone that has the numbers please share with the Flyer Faithful, where U.D. falls when it comes to T.v. marketshare and social media impressions. I remember the social media info was shared the last time U.D. made a fantastic run in the NCAA Tournament and we were way up there. Just be neat to see how we did this past season.

	Flyer Faithful FLYER FAITHFUL Best college basketball fans in the country. Knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and loyal. Help to create one of the toughest home courts in the nation at UD Arena. Over 12,000 fans a game put the Flyers in the Top-30 nationally in attendance. Fan spirit and support growing to other UD sports and athletic programs as well.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by Jeff Anytime I'm out where I can wear UD swag I do. I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped by someone who says - "hey UD". Airports (including DFW, ATL, SLC, ORD, and Sao Paulo), nationals parks, including out in the sticks in Glacier National, and Yellowstone. Never ceases to amaze me how friendly our alumni are.

UD is just different. It didn't really "dawn" on me until roughly 5 or so years after I graduated, but I've been saying this for ~20 years.

I've come across Flyers gear in some of the most random places - on a whale watch boat in the middle of the Boston Harbor/Atlantic Ocean, in the middle of the Sonoran Desert (Botanical Garden), Maui (not during the Maui Invitational), Diamond Head Volcano in Honolulu, the Cayman Islands, and dozens of airports. And each time, there's an instant connection. Not just a wave and a smile. But a stop, introduction, who are you, where are you from, where did you live at UD, when did you graduate, etc. My wife asked my kids that day on that desert path in Arizona - "where's dad?" They said, "Oh, he stopped to talk to some stranger." "Why?" "Because he was wearing a UD hat."

And it drives my wife nuts as a SLU grad. Early on, I simply assumed that everybody felt this way about their alma mater and that everyone had the same kind of experience that I had. But this isn't the case. We're special. And we're lucky. And all for the better.

My hope/wish is that everyone get the same kind of experience at their respective schools as I had at UD. Everyone deserves that kind of passion in their lives.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ChampCar]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER UD is just different. It didn't really "dawn" on me until roughly 5 or so years after I graduated, but I've been saying this for ~20 years. I've come across Flyers gear in some of the most random places - on a whale watch boat in the middle of the Boston Harbor/Atlantic Ocean, in the middle of the Sonoran Desert (Botanical Garden), Maui (not during the Maui Invitational), Diamond Head Volcano in Honolulu, the Cayman Islands, and dozens of airports. And each time, there's an instant connection. Not just a wave and a smile. But a stop, introduction, who are you, where are you from, where did you live at UD, when did you graduate, etc. My wife asked my kids that day on that desert path in Arizona - "where's dad?" They said, "Oh, he stopped to talk to some stranger." "Why?" "Because he was wearing a UD hat." And it drives my wife nuts as a SLU grad. Early on, I simply assumed that everybody felt this way about their alma mater and that everyone had the same kind of experience that I had. But this isn't the case. We're special. And we're lucky. And all for the better. My hope/wish is that everyone get the same kind of experience at their respective schools as I had at UD. Everyone deserves that kind of passion in their lives.

Two years ago we were at the Soggy Dollar Bar in Jost Van **** for New Year's Eve. A woman there approached me because I was wearing a Flyers cap. It turned out she was not only from Dayton, but lives four doors down from me, and we'd never met. Who needs Kevin Bacon? We are UD.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by UncleFester ESPN didn’t exist then. Posted via Mobile Device

It was not ESPN in the 1970s. It was the national TV networks that were just starting. I think the big one was TVS. Notre Dame was winless in the maiden season and played football players on the team. But... they were on TV every Saturday and the TV money and exposure grew nationally.

I always thought UD was tied into an exclusive contract for right with WHIO and could not get out of it (or did not try).

Not getting TV exposure allowed other programs to pass UD.

[Swampy Meadows]

TVS was a syndicator who sold the the games to individual TV stations. The other culprit for lack of TV coverage was Tom Frericks stubbornness in refusing to join a conference.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows TVS was a syndicator who sold the the games to individual TV stations. The other culprit for lack of TV coverage was Tom Frericks stubbornness in refusing to join a conference. Posted via Mobile Device

Agree Swampy. TF is an icon at UD but in my view made mis-steps at critical times and we are still feeling the results.

[Brad S.]

So this is a little off the main topic, but can anyone explain to me why outside of going to one of the campus bookstore run places, it's hard to get any good quality UD gear in local stores? The Meijer near Wright State has a fairly good selection of WSU gear, as you might expect, but I've not run across a comparable selection of UD stuff. I have never seen UD-branded fabric at the local fabric stores either, although I could easily buy UC or X fabric.

I realize that UD will never compete with tOSU regarding merchandising, but I've seen more local HS gear than UD attire at stores.

I'm guessing that it all comes down to money and licensing, but it looks like a big missed opportunity to me.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Brad S. So this is a little off the main topic, but can anyone explain to me why outside of going to one of the campus bookstore run places, it's hard to get any good quality UD gear in local stores? The Meijer near Wright State has a fairly good selection of WSU gear, as you might expect, but I've not run across a comparable selection of UD stuff. I have never seen UD-branded fabric at the local fabric stores either, although I could easily buy UC or X fabric. I realize that UD will never compete with tOSU regarding merchandising, but I've seen more local HS gear than UD attire at stores. I'm guessing that it all comes down to money and licensing, but it looks like a big missed opportunity to me.

The Rally Store at Dayton Mall has a very large assortment of UD gear.

[Brad S.]

Originally Posted by springborofan The Rally Store at Dayton Mall has a very large assortment of UD gear.

Great to know, thanks!

[Radar]

Originally Posted by springborofan The Rally Store at Dayton Mall has a very large assortment of UD gear.

...and they've stepped up their game when it comes to Flyer gear.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by SLUFLYER .....And each time, there's an instant connection. Not just a wave and a smile. But a stop, introduction, who are you, where are you from, where did you live at UD, when did you graduate, etc. My wife asked my kids that day on that desert path in Arizona - "where's dad?" They said, "Oh, he stopped to talk to some stranger." "Why?" "Because he was wearing a UD hat." And it drives my wife nuts....

This is exactly my experience. My wife just shakes her head in disbelief every time it happens....pretty much anytime I wear the UD gear when we are traveling.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by Brad S. So this is a little off the main topic, but can anyone explain to me why outside of going to one of the campus bookstore run places, it's hard to get any good quality UD gear in local stores? The Meijer near Wright State has a fairly good selection of WSU gear, as you might expect, but I've not run across a comparable selection of UD stuff. I have never seen UD-branded fabric at the local fabric stores either, although I could easily buy UC or X fabric. I realize that UD will never compete with tOSU regarding merchandising, but I've seen more local HS gear than UD attire at stores. I'm guessing that it all comes down to money and licensing, but it looks like a big missed opportunity to me.

The Meijers at Stroop and Wilmington always has UD gear.

[Brad S.]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 The Meijers at Stroop and Wilmington always has UD gear.

Good to know, though I don't go to that one very often. The ones near me usually have 1 or 2 types of questionable quality T-shirt and maybe a hat or two (I'm not a hat guy).

[Don]

Originally Posted by UncleFester ESPN didn’t exist then. Posted via Mobile Device

I was referring to when ESPN was starting and supposedly inquired about televising Flyer games to a larger audience than the Miami Valley. Short term gain....long term???

[ChampCar]

Originally Posted by Brad S. So this is a little off the main topic, but can anyone explain to me why outside of going to one of the campus bookstore run places, it's hard to get any good quality UD gear in local stores? The Meijer near Wright State has a fairly good selection of WSU gear, as you might expect, but I've not run across a comparable selection of UD stuff. I have never seen UD-branded fabric at the local fabric stores either, although I could easily buy UC or X fabric. I realize that UD will never compete with tOSU regarding merchandising, but I've seen more local HS gear than UD attire at stores. I'm guessing that it all comes down to money and licensing, but it looks like a big missed opportunity to me.

Check out Costco - they have nice Flyers gear.

[ChampCar]

Originally Posted by ChampCar Two years ago we were at the Soggy Dollar Bar in Jost Van **** for New Year's Eve. A woman there approached me because I was wearing a Flyers cap. It turned out she was not only from Dayton, but lives four doors down from me, and we'd never met. Who needs Kevin Bacon? We are UD.

This is a head scratcher -- was the name of the Caribbean island redacted?

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by ChampCar This is a head scratcher -- was the name of the Caribbean island redacted?

Yep, and I'm betting Mary Tyler Moore's co-star of his eponymous show would be **** van ****.

I was walking into the old Presidio Officer's Club in San Francisco 15 years ago when a guy stops me, puts out his hand and says "Class of '68". I was wearing a Dayton sweatshirt.

Sam's in Centerville often has pretty good UD gear as well.

[Flyer68]

Live in NJ about 25 northwest of NYC. Going back to the 50's there is a strong UD present in the NY metropolitan area. Anywhere I wear UD clothes, I run into someone - Alaska, Galway, Ireland, Myrtle Beach, Ocean City, golf tournaments and just walking on the street to name some. Older and recent alumni. It's a family around the world feeling.

[N2663R]

Here are links for UD branded fabric. Only ETSY has something different :

https://www.collegefabricstore.com/u...d-by-the-yard/

https://www.etsy.com/listing/9248926...search_click=1

https://fabrichut.com/search.php?search_query=dayton

https://sykelenterprises.com/search?...oduct&q=dayton