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  #301  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
The US plays soccer? Just slightly kidding, it's just painfully boring sport to watch, imo. But congratulations to Trinibad and Tobasco, they are hot. Lol
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Not enough offense/not enough goals in soccer. Too boring.
I knew I would get responses like this as soon as I brought up soccer and was in no way trying to make people like soccer. I was simply using soccer as an easy analogy for how the development of players is different between the US and the rest of the world. I should have just used their basketball development because it uses the same model as their soccer programs in most cases but on a smaller scale. In many cases the soccer clubs also have basketball teams. Long story short the US is in the minority in the way it uses high schools/colleges to develop their athletes which is why when guys like Svoboda come to the states they have been playing for a pro team/club instead of a school.
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  #302  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I knew I would get responses like this as soon as I brought up soccer and was in no way trying to make people like soccer. I was simply using soccer as an easy analogy for how the development of players is different between the US and the rest of the world. I should have just used their basketball development because it uses the same model as their soccer programs in most cases but on a smaller scale. In many cases the soccer clubs also have basketball teams. Long story short the US is in the minority in the way it uses high schools/colleges to develop their athletes which is why when guys like Svoboda come to the states they have been playing for a pro team/club instead of a school.
I didn't want to derail this thread too may but you may have just brought it back to relevancy. I agree this is not whether the people in the US have an interest in soccer. Money is being spent in quantities that should produce more than a 5th place finish in Concacaf.

In some ways the US system for basketball is more like the international model. The shoe and apparel and other sponsors are putting money into AAU and college basketball programs that are developing talent. Given what we know about Adidas and UofL, how is that different than the international model?

What I don't know is who funds US Soccer. Why aren't those resources returning something more than what they have returned?
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  #303  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
What I don't know is who funds US Soccer. Why aren't those resources returning something more than what they have returned?
They make money from sponsors, tournaments, games, TV rights, and the World Cup. They made 46 million on the Copa America Centenario alone and had a surplus of 100 million in May. The men's teams got 9 Million just by getting to the round of 16 in 2014 and the teams that didn't get out of the group stage got 8 million. So they lost at least 8 million by not qualifying on Tuesday.

As for what to do with all that money I don't want to take this thread even more off topic so I will just leave a link below, but if you just search you can find a lot more ideas than this article.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/gall...pending-051117
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  #304  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:15 PM
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I'm confused, is the US model better, because guys like Matej come to the US, or is the International model better for how they develope without high school and college?

Not to highjack the thread, but my issue with soccer in general is the randomness of it. I tried watching the World Cup the last time, and the US had the lead and the clock ran out, but extra time was added. I know, it's to account for balls being out of play and such, then stop the clock then, or tell the viewers how much extra time will be added. It just looks like time was added until the other team tied, then it was over.
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  #305  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:17 PM
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US Soccer is run like the Flint Tropics. Monix is Bruce Arena coaching the team. Jackie Moon is Jozy Altidore. Dewey represents the sideshow filler when you can't celebrate Copa America, Confed Cup, and WC titles.

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  #306  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
At least an athletic scholarship provides you the opportunity to prepare for a non sport future.
Using this same logic would you ever say this to your athletically gifted (and straight A student) son who received his best athletic scholarship offer from Hamburger U: "at least a scholarship to Hamburger U provides you the opportunity to prepare for a non sport future."

Some people aren't meant for college, and that's OK. Some people are meant to be welders, custodians, grocers, etc. If we all paid a bit more respect to people in those professions I think the country would have a lot more respect for each other.


Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Top level?

Forget about Mexico. In Concacaf the US just has to beat a bunch of practically small close to 3rd world countries. We don't even have to beat them all.

The ROI for US Soccer is beyond embarrassing.
Check your geography and GDP figures, these ARE 3rd world countries.
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  #307  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Some people aren't meant for college, and that's OK. Some people are meant to be welders, custodians, grocers, etc. If we all paid a bit more respect to people in those professions I think the country would have a lot more respect for each other.
This x1000!!!!
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  #308  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:12 PM
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NCAA to reveal UNC punishments on Friday. UNC's defense was the fake classes were open to everyone, and not just athletes, so no violation. Seriously??
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  #309  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
NCAA to reveal UNC punishments on Friday. UNC's defense was the fake classes were open to everyone, and not just athletes, so no violation. Seriously??
While it is completely disingenuous, it is actually a decent argument. We have some easy classes at our school. So what? You are the NCAA. You don't and can't regulate the curriculum we offer to (all) our students. Will be interesting. You have to actually violate rules not just be generally slimey.
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  #310  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:09 PM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/s...c-scandal.html

I don't believe this was posted before. It explains why NC MAY not see serious consequences from the NCAA.
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  #311  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:00 PM
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I heard a story about a junior college. There was a class that was required, and the school put all athletes in the same class. During the exam, the professor pointed out that the answer key was on his desk, and no one was to look at it. Then he got up and informed the class he had an appointment to get to and he would be gone for an hour. Then one of the senior athletes got up and read off the answers after the prof left.
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  #312  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Using this same logic would you ever say this to your athletically gifted (and straight A student) son who received his best athletic scholarship offer from Hamburger U: "at least a scholarship to Hamburger U provides you the opportunity to prepare for a non sport future."

Some people aren't meant for college, and that's OK. Some people are meant to be welders, custodians, grocers, etc. If we all paid a bit more respect to people in those professions I think the country would have a lot more respect for each other.




Check your geography and GDP figures, these ARE 3rd world countries.
So my only choice is crap college with scholarship or ??? And then your rebuttal is some people aren't meant for college? I can't tell what your point is. So I'll try to address it the best I can.

1. Most athletically gifted kids will have multiple offers, and can choose based on their own priority, including academics, athletics, etc. But if it was one college athletic scholarship and not a good school, then my academically talented child would go wherever we thought was best regardless of any athletic opportunity.

2. Yes, I get that many are not a good fit for college. But take a look at your top athletic players and think about what opportunities they may have. If they don't make it in a minor league system, what do they fall back on? It's easy to say some sort of trade or manual labor, but opportunities are limited even there, especially where many of these kids come from. So given an opportunity for a free education with all the support the schools give kids with tutoring etc., why not try to change the trajectory of their life and future generations?
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
So my only choice is crap college with scholarship or ??? And then your rebuttal is some people aren't meant for college? I can't tell what your point is. So I'll try to address it the best I can.

1. Most athletically gifted kids will have multiple offers, and can choose based on their own priority, including academics, athletics, etc. But if it was one college athletic scholarship and not a good school, then my academically talented child would go wherever we thought was best regardless of any athletic opportunity.

2. Yes, I get that many are not a good fit for college. But take a look at your top athletic players and think about what opportunities they may have. If they don't make it in a minor league system, what do they fall back on? It's easy to say some sort of trade or manual labor, but opportunities are limited even there, especially where many of these kids come from. So given an opportunity for a free education with all the support the schools give kids with tutoring etc., why not try to change the trajectory of their life and future generations?
HVAC > African American Studies
Plumbing > Electronic Media
Electrician > Journalism
Welding > Education

BTW, all those blue-collar careers can EASILY 'change the trajectory' of anyone's life...to imply a worthless college degree is a better option is nothing short of ignorant. Royally.
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  #314  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
So my only choice is crap college with scholarship or ??? And then your rebuttal is some people aren't meant for college? I can't tell what your point is. So I'll try to address it the best I can.

1. Most athletically gifted kids will have multiple offers, and can choose based on their own priority, including academics, athletics, etc. But if it was one college athletic scholarship and not a good school, then my academically talented child would go wherever we thought was best regardless of any athletic opportunity.

2. Yes, I get that many are not a good fit for college. But take a look at your top athletic players and think about what opportunities they may have. If they don't make it in a minor league system, what do they fall back on? It's easy to say some sort of trade or manual labor, but opportunities are limited even there, especially where many of these kids come from. So given an opportunity for a free education with all the support the schools give kids with tutoring etc., why not try to change the trajectory of their life and future generations?
Maybe it would be more clear if the situation was reversed: what if all of the US's 2-year technical schools fielded the best basketball teams. Would you say to your kid, "you've got a shot at the big time, you should attend ITT Tech for 2 years and see if you make the NBA. If it doesn't work out, at least you'll be better off since you got your degree in culinary arts." Well that just sounds ridiculous because your son could find a way to burn water, and can't even make toast for himself, and has zero interest in ever being a cook / chef. That would just be a waste of 2 years of school. Then he comes out 2 years behind his peers when he goes to UD to become an accountant.

My point is: don't mash together 2 things that are unrelated. You're already implicitly assuming in your comments that "your" kid was already going to go to college anyway, so why not get it for free. If your kid had absolutely no inclination or aptitude for college prior to becoming a good athlete, why do you suddenly automatically assume that college MUST be a better choice for him after he becomes a good athlete?

"This Picasso kid could potentially play PG for us here at Northwesteastern Southern University A&M by the time he's a senior, let's convince him he really needs an accounting degree so he'll come play ball for us for 4 years. At least he'll be better off since he got his degree."

The example is ridiculous and of course Picasso might have actually had a better life as an accountant than an artist, but the point is: our society has reached an extreme point where we automatically assume EVERYONE is better off having gone to college. It might actually be a total waste of time, or worse, put you on a terrible path for your skill sets. Some people are destined to be a welder. So what? Weld your heart out. Go live a nice peaceful life as a welder.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:10 AM
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North Carolina gets off with no punishment for their fake classes! The NCAA continues to be a joke.

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/st...39245363703808

Maybe the FBI should investigate them for fraud against the students of took the fake classes.
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  #316  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:11 AM
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No sanction. I'd say there is a rule change coming but I don't know how realistic that is.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:15 AM
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There are about 8,000 men and women that are on D1 basketball scholarships each year. About 75 play in the NBA of WNBA. All the rest need to get an education and a career. In all the discussions the nubby little tail wags the huge dog.

One, stop the one and done. Two, put in many more rules to promote education and career.

This crap starts in HS, and before, where many athletes are given the implication by coaches, fans and family that education is not #1.
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  #318  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
North Carolina gets off with no punishment for their fake classes! The NCAA continues to be a joke.

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/st...39245363703808

Maybe the FBI should investigate them for fraud against the students of took the fake classes.
Yes, but Cleveland State got the death penalty.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
North Carolina gets off with no punishment for their fake classes! The NCAA continues to be a joke.

https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/st...39245363703808

Maybe the FBI should investigate them for fraud against the students of took the fake classes.
UNC's defense: the fake classes that the athletes were "enrolled" in were offered to the entire student body, therefore not an impermissible benefit and not in NCAA's jurisdiction. Mark Emmert should just close up shop. The inmates are running the asylum.
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  #320  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
UNC's defense: the fake classes that the athletes were "enrolled" in were offered to the entire student body, therefore not an impermissible benefit and not in NCAA's jurisdiction. Mark Emmert should just close up shop. The inmates are running the asylum.
Yep. What coaches should do now is whenever they do something for an athlete they should do the same thing for a normal student. So if you pay a player 10k just make sure you give a regular student 10k and everything should be fine.
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  #321  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
UNC's defense: the fake classes that the athletes were "enrolled" in were offered to the entire student body, therefore not an impermissible benefit and not in NCAA's jurisdiction. Mark Emmert should just close up shop. The inmates are running the asylum.
Is this where the FBI steps in and investigates UNC - the university, not the athletic department - for fraud in offering fake classes and taking people's money to enroll in these fake classes and handing out degrees that are tainted with fraud for anyone who took fake classes? And isn't there an association that is responsible for "accreditation" that should now pull UNC's? And if you are not an accrediated university, can you get your taxpayer funding pulled? This appears to be bigger than the NCAA jurisdiction. Is anyone paying attention? Does anyone care?

And finally, what a cop-out by the NCAA. They shouldn't even be looking at other students. Their job is to insure student-athletes are completing their academic requirements. Can anyone say that happened in this case? If you enrolled in a fake class, how did you meet your requirement for "real" credits that semester to remain eligible to play ball?
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  #322  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:55 AM
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From the Raleigh News Observer,
"If the NCAA can't punish North Carolina for decades of what was clearly, to any outsider, academic fraud designed to keep athletes eligible, what's the point? Already exposed as feeble and inept by the FBI, which shed more light on the seedy side of basketball recruiting in one pun-laden press conference than the NCAA ever has, Friday's admission that it has no way to punish North Carolina for decades of self-described scandal opens the door to fake classes everywhere.

As of Friday, there's no reason for any athlete to be called a “student-athlete” anymore. They're just athletes, because the NCAA is powerless to enforce the other half of its beloved phrase.
And not necessarily by choice, either. The infractions committee clearly wanted to find some way to penalize UNC but found itself pinned between its own mission and the university's clever lawyering. University presidents, who run the NCAA and make its rules, don't want the NCAA poking around in academics, what they insist on calling “curriculum,” leaving it up to the schools to decide what is and what isn't academic fraud.
North Carolina figured out, in mid-investigation, that even if it called what happened in the Department of African and Afro-American Studies “academic fraud” when dealing with its academic accreditor, as long as it didn't use those words with the NCAA, there was nothing the NCAA could do. So UNC started coming up with all kinds of other ways to describe the classes – “pivoted dramatically,” the report says – and left the committee on infractions a prisoner of its own bylaws."
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  #323  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:19 PM
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the cheated, got caught ... BUT ... there were normal students in the classes. Thus there is no violation.

What UNC needs to do is invalidate all the grades and make students come back and take one or more classes to finish their degrees. They did not graduate.
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  #324  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:56 PM
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The NCAA

is a sham organization designed to protect and encourage corruption.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:20 PM
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I wonder when UNC is back up for accreditation.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:50 PM
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Adi Joseph‏ @AdiJoseph
NCAA is functioning as a parody act today

Joe GiglioVerified account @jwgiglio
BREAKING FROM NC STATE: Freshman guard Braxton Beverly has been ruled ineligible by NCAA. The school plans to appeal the decision
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:51 PM
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http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...178677026.html

Absolutely nuts. He is ineligible because he took a class at Ohio State in the Spring! Makes 0 sense.
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  #328  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:19 PM
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Absolutely nuts. He is ineligible because he took a class at Ohio State in the Spring! Makes 0 sense.[/QUOTE]

Boy... I'd love to hear what the class was. Advanced Calc? Biology? African-American Studies?
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOFlyer View Post
Boy... I'd love to hear what the class was. Advanced Calc? Biology? African-American Studies?
African-American studies? Did you even read the article? I don't think that would be the class Braxton Beverly from Hazard, KY would be enrolling in at tOSU.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
African-American studies? Did you even read the article? I don't think that would be the class Braxton Beverly from Hazard, KY would be enrolling in at tOSU.
C-Time.. I understand what you are saying. I was merely referring to questionable classes offered for 'all' the students at UNC.

To me, this whole scenario in college basketball is rather disturbing. I read an article today about a former college basketball player and #1 draft pick who knew players in college that took a 'pay cut' when they turned pro.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:30 PM
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I hear the NCAA is so upset by the outcome that they're going to hand out harsher penalties to St. Weldaventure.
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  #332  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...178677026.html

Absolutely nuts. He is ineligible because he took a class at Ohio State in the Spring! Makes 0 sense.
He is not ineligible. He has to sit a year under the transfer rule, because technically he started school this year at another school.
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  #333  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
He is not ineligible. He has to sit a year under the transfer rule, because technically he started school this year at another school.
True but it's a pretty crappy rule when the head coach leaves in June. In this situation the NCAA should let him play this year. If Matta were still at tOSU and Beverly had transferred to NC State I would be perfectly fine with him having to sit a year. But when the coach leaves the player shouldn't be penalized.
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  #334  
Old 10-13-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Death penalty, suspensions, vacated wins. . . executed by whom? When you say the answer to that question out loud you're realize why it won't happen.
Gazoo: You are being proven absolutely correct. With the announcement on zero penalty to North Carolina, today, it would appear that UNC is getting off scott free. This may or may not repeat itself for the other schools involved? But, it is business as usual. If one school is, in the future, made an example of; then it will just be the price of doing business. All activities will re-commence once the coast is clear.

I don't like it. But, i can be a realist.

The other schools are: Miami (Florida), Louisville, Auburn, Alabama, Oklahoma State, Arizona and USC (Southern California). Did I miss anyone?
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
Gazoo: You are being proven absolutely correct. With the announcement on zero penalty to North Carolina, today, it would appear that UNC is getting off scott free. This may or may not repeat itself for the other schools involved? But, it is business as usual. If one school is, in the future, made an example of; then it will just be the price of doing business. All activities will re-commence once the coast is clear.

I don't like it. But, i can be a realist.

The other schools are: Miami (Florida), Louisville, Auburn, Alabama, Oklahoma State, Arizona and USC (Southern California). Did I miss anyone?
South Carolina
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  #336  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:24 PM
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So North Carolina gets off because non-athletes had access to fake classes. Alright. Well, wouldn't the same logic apply to otherwise impermissable benefits? As long as we give them to non-athletes too, that should be cool with the NCAA!
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
HVAC > African American Studies
Plumbing > Electronic Media
Electrician > Journalism
Welding > Education

BTW, all those blue-collar careers can EASILY 'change the trajectory' of anyone's life...to imply a worthless college degree is a better option is nothing short of ignorant. Royally.
Except I didn't do that, so don't put words in my mouth. The fact is, I don't disagree that a skilled trade is as good or even in some cases better than a college degree. But don't pretend that a lot of these kids are just as likely to do a trade as they are college. In fact, I'd guess less likely, given where many of them come from. There are more limited opportunities in many of the inner cities from whence many of these kids come from so what are their chances of becoming an electrician or plumber or pattern maker, or any other number of skilled trades.

Maybe the trade-off is someone on an athletic scholarship has to take a real degree and not some made up one that offers no practical use in the real world. I don't know, but I'm reasonably certain that just because non degree jobs exist doesn't mean these kids are any more likely to pursue them than they are something in college.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOFlyer View Post
C-Time.. I understand what you are saying. I was merely referring to questionable classes offered for 'all' the students at UNC.

To me, this whole scenario in college basketball is rather disturbing. I read an article today about a former college basketball player and #1 draft pick who knew players in college that took a 'pay cut' when they turned pro.
Gotcha. Beverly was actually taking "Rural Sociology and Life Span Human Development" on May 10 which matches up well to his upbringing in Hazard.
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  #339  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:55 AM
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What would be the outcome if it was not UNC? Say, if it was University of Northern Iowa?
How much did the UNC name factor into this decision?
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:16 AM
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I don't know if you folks are reading the same web articles that i am or not? What i have learned is that the University of North Carolina's academic standing has been called into question over these paper classes. These classes were defined as classes where it was not required that the student attend the class. It was almost like an online class. Each student was assisted by the teacher equally. Only a term paper was required to pass the class.

At first i thought that the NCAA was codifying and certifying the UNC pattern as acceptable behavior. With this ruling, all other universities should follow this pattern. The copying of the UNC programs would begin. The director of the UNC program would become a hot product in the marketplace. This person could command double their salary to join another university and duplicate the program there. But, after reading these articles, i am not so sure?

These articles have not answered my question, why? Why did the University of North Carolina create a separate department that seemed to focus on paper classes? Why didn't UNC simply direct these students to classes that were more creative in nature where the results were more subjective? Subjectively graded classes in singing (voice), dancing, theater, painting, sculpture, pottery, physical education, mixed media and abstract art would seem to be a more perfect fit for these students.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I don't know if you folks are reading the same web articles that i am or not? What i have learned is that the University of North Carolina's academic standing has been called into question over these paper classes. These classes were defined as classes where it was not required that the student attend the class. It was almost like an online class. Each student was assisted by the teacher equally. Only a term paper was required to pass the class.

At first i thought that the NCAA was codifying and certifying the UNC pattern as acceptable behavior. With this ruling, all other universities should follow this pattern. The copying of the UNC programs would begin. The director of the UNC program would become a hot product in the marketplace. This person could command double their salary to join another university and duplicate the program there. But, after reading these articles, i am not so sure?

These articles have not answered my question, why? Why did the University of North Carolina create a separate department that seemed to focus on paper classes? Why didn't UNC simply direct these students to classes that were more creative in nature where the results were more subjective? Subjectively graded classes in singing (voice), dancing, theater, painting, sculpture, pottery, physical education, mixed media and abstract art would seem to be a more perfect fit for these students.
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They did it to give athletes an easy "A". The smart thing they did inadvertently, or on purpose, is open it to everyone.

Nothing at this point stops others from doing similar classes, but politically and PR wise that would not be smart. I would bet my house that there are already classes out there at several schools that are similarly silly in structure and demands.

Don't forget the college presidents are the ones who run the NCAA and demand they stay the heck out of the academic side.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:15 PM
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For the people asking whether UNC will suffer on the accreditation end, this article explains that they have been put on probation and it is over.

https://alumni.unc.edu/news/sacs-res...accreditation/
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  #343  
Old 10-15-2017, 02:32 PM
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One of the articles I read said this case and lack of punishment will come back to bite the NCAA. It sets up a defense for other infractions as long as you offer the same benefit to plain old students as well as student athletes. The example they gave was for an alum to throw $50,000 on a table in front of a student athlete and a regular student and let them grab what they can. As long as the alum includes a non-athlete, there is no infraction. What the heck....just fund the athlete and his non-athlete girlfriend and they can both get their college paid for. Or how about a brother or sister as long as both enroll in the university. Small price for some alums that want a National Championship. And if you need to run a help wanted ad in the student paper to hire a couple students to wash cars for a couple weeks in the summer. Pay could be $25,000. Just make sure you hire both athletes and non- athletes. Keep it all "legal".
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  #344  
Old 10-15-2017, 02:50 PM
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I think it was in 2011 or around there that the NCAA made the academic requirements for the clearinghouse more stringent. That is why we are seeing more players ruled academically ineligible (according to one of UD's compliance officers).

In order to remain consistent with the UNC ruling, the NCAA should abolish the academic arm of their clearinghouse. If the college or university admits a student then that is an academic decision and they should keep their nose out of it. If the NCAA doesn't care what they do academically once they are admitted, why worry about what they did before they enrolled.
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  #345  
Old 10-15-2017, 03:36 PM
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UNC

The NCAA just gave a new meaning to what UNC stands for ... and no it does not involve the state ...

UNC means 'U' Never Cheated


BTW do they have a med school? If so, I'd not chose a MD that has their degree from this 'university'.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I think it was in 2011 or around there that the NCAA made the academic requirements for the clearinghouse more stringent. That is why we are seeing more players ruled academically ineligible (according to one of UD's compliance officers).

In order to remain consistent with the UNC ruling, the NCAA should abolish the academic arm of their clearinghouse. If the college or university admits a student then that is an academic decision and they should keep their nose out of it. If the NCAA doesn't care what they do academically once they are admitted, why worry about what they did before they enrolled.
Well let's play this card one more hand. If the university admits a non-student athlete with a high school GPA of 2.0 (or whatever the level of admission is plus whatever the credits needed are) then according to this ruling they are discriminating against student-athletes unless they are being treated exactly the same academically. Student athletes shouldn't be required to out-perform average students. The coin should flip both ways. Play anyone taking classes and threaten to sue the heck out of the NCAA if they try to tell you someone is academically ineligible. That's basically what UNC did and the NCAA not only folded but opened the door for more cheating.
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  #347  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
So North Carolina gets off because non-athletes had access to fake classes. Alright. Well, wouldn't the same logic apply to otherwise impermissable benefits? As long as we give them to non-athletes too, that should be cool with the NCAA!
Crazy as it seems, I think what makes a benefit impermissible is said benefit not being given to the general student population, (or not otherwise permitted by NCAA rules). If a school wanted to give every student a Porsche, I think they could. They would go broke but they could.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:14 PM
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So, this sounds about right . . .

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...lawsuit-adidas
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:16 AM
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Pitino is suing Adidas in Federal Court because of Adidas' improper dealings with recruits and Adidas destroyed his good name and humiliated him. Wants damages. Can't make this stuff up. He won't go away. Would love to see him being cross examined by Adidas' attorneys.

And the beat goes on.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So, this sounds about right . . .

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...lawsuit-adidas
Absolutely no shame in this criminal. It's apparently Adidas' fault that Pitino pulled a Schultz and "knew nothing. Nothing!" I wonder if part of his defense will be that Adidas should have told him.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Absolutely no shame in this criminal. It's apparently Adidas' fault that Pitino pulled a Schultz and "knew nothing. Nothing!" I wonder if part of his defense will be that Adidas should have told him.
Agree, he's shameless.

Pitino should have to take a polygraph.
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:38 AM
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Pitino took a 2 question polygraph regarding Brian Bowen, RP passed the polygraph.

RP told his staff after the female escorts incident that he wanted to know everything that was going on in the program, even if a player had broken up with his girlfriend.

Bowen's father had been paid a second installment of $25k, $50k total, 2 weeks before the FBI went public with the story. Bowen's father was to receive $100k total.

Bowen's family was living in the Galt House, a very nice hotel in Louisville.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...le-fbi-scandal


http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/10/16/r...wen-situation/





Last edited by ud2; 10-18-2017 at 10:43 AM..
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  #353  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:00 AM
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For a polygraph test to be valid, the questioner needs to run thru quite a few baseline questions like 'is your name Rick Pitino?', is your birthday XX/XX/XX? This establishes the machine's accuracy. A 2 question test is nothing but a P.R. stunt and proves nothing.
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:09 PM
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While not admissible in a trial, a court and prosecutors will allow defense attorney to have client to take a polygraph as part of negotiations. I have used the polygraph as a negation tool on several occasions. I would agree to have states attorney’s polygraph operator to perform the test after Defendant had taken an examination run by my operator. It does cast doubts in States Attorney’s mind. I have been able to have cases dropped if Defendant passes exam.
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:11 PM
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Rollo is right about needing a baseline for exam to be credible.
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Old 10-18-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Pitino took a 2 question polygraph regarding Brian Bowen, RP passed the polygraph.

RP told his staff after the female escorts incident that he wanted to know everything that was going on in the program, even if a player had broken up with his girlfriend.

Bowen's father had been paid a second installment of $25k, $50k total, 2 weeks before the FBI went public with the story. Bowen's father was to receive $100k total.

Bowen's family was living in the Galt House, a very nice hotel in Louisville.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...le-fbi-scandal


http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/10/16/r...wen-situation/




You're not this naive or easily misled, are you?

I have a 13 year old son who attends the local middle school. If asked the following question I could easily answer no: "Gazoo, does your son attend the local middle school?" "No."

What?? I could pass that test with flying colors. I don't KNOW he attends there. I know our house is district-ed to that school. I know he brings home report cards. I know his friends have never told me he skips school. But I have never personally attended a day of school with him, so I do not KNOW he attends.

Likewise, Pitino didn't personally participate in paying Bowen's family or know with certainty that he was paid. Plausible deniability. And for $10K there's a guy who will teach you exactly how to pass a polygraph test and he claims to have a 100% success rate (and has been sentenced to jail for it but won't stop doing it).
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  #357  
Old 10-18-2017, 03:06 PM
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You have to have a conscious for it to work. Met a guy who you'd swear didn't have a soul. Pure evil, could pass any test.
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  #358  
Old 10-18-2017, 03:11 PM
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It doesn't matter if he passed or not. He hired the assistants, he IS responsible. Maybe they all conspired to get the kids behinds his back and he never knew anything. It doesn't matter. He hired them.
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TMPH66 View Post
Rollo is right about needing a baseline for exam to be credible.
Which is why the report states "relevant" questions. They aren't going to report the baseline questions of yes/no to your name, color of the room, are the lights on, etc...where you are told to tell the truth on some and lie on others...

In other news...there is a reason why they aren't admissible in court. They are nothing more than a tool to try and convince you to tell the truth. I have taken poly's and CVSA's...I don't buy into it...and some of the certified examiners will tell you the same.
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Pitino is suing Adidas in Federal Court because of Adidas' improper dealings with recruits and Adidas destroyed his good name and humiliated him. Wants damages. Can't make this stuff up. He won't go away. Would love to see him being cross examined by Adidas' attorneys.

And the beat goes on.
I wonder who payed his "restaurant bill" that fateful night way back when.
A shoe company perhaps?
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
I wonder who payed his "restaurant bill" that fateful night way back when.
A shoe company perhaps?
If that happened today, the following exchange might happen in the staff meeting the following day:

"Uh, coach, you asked to have any unusual activity reported to you. I saw a woman making some unusual faces last night. . . "
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Pitino took a 2 question polygraph regarding Brian Bowen, RP passed the polygraph.

RP told his staff after the female escorts incident that he wanted to know everything that was going on in the program, even if a player had broken up with his girlfriend.

Bowen's father had been paid a second installment of $25k, $50k total, 2 weeks before the FBI went public with the story. Bowen's father was to receive $100k total.

Bowen's family was living in the Galt House, a very nice hotel in Louisville.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:41 AM
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This from Jay Bilas interview w/ Slick Rick:

Pitino: Adidas took 'my love and passion away from me.'

And he said it with a straight face...and a wallet full of $$.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:51 AM
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RP's priority is on his name only. The program and players are not his focus.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:08 AM
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:48 AM
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Love the headline! One for the ages.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:52 PM
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Dayton finally made an article about the FBI probe. It's related to Rashan Michel who was indicted in the case.

https://sports.yahoo.com/meet-rashan...214744140.html

The part involving UD is below, but the entire article is pretty interesting. One person basically says this guy will tell all to save himself.

Others were less laudatory of Michel’s clothes. Syracuse assistant Allen Griffin, formerly with Archie Miller at Dayton, said the quality of Michel’s suits “sucked, to be honest with you.” Beyond that, Griffin said his relationship with Michel was strictly related to buying clothes and there was never any discussion of brokering deals for players or involvement with financial advisers.
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Old 11-03-2017, 09:00 PM
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Source: Indictments expected next week in college hoops scandal
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:35 PM
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Indictment alleges Rick Pitino knew about plan to pay Louisville recruit and participated in it

The seat is getting warmer by the day...
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  #370  
Old 11-09-2017, 04:42 PM
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Well, I hope the citizens of Louisville are happy they build the 22,000 seat KFC Yum Center. Lots of great horse shows will be happening there Iím sure! If I am Louisville, I am at making an announcement there will be no postseason participation this year. I would do it on Black Friday, right in the middle of what will be a huge college football weekend.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
Well, I hope the citizens of Louisville are happy they build the 22,000 seat KFC Yum Center. Lots of great horse shows will be happening there Iím sure! If I am Louisville, I am at making an announcement there will be no postseason participation this year. I would do it on Black Friday, right in the middle of what will be a huge college football weekend.
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They jumped on the sword last time the NCAA was investigating them and declared themselves ineligible for the NCAA tournament. There is no way they are doing it again especially with an interim school president and AD. They are just going to ride it out and see if the NCAA will actually do anything especially with UNC skating by. Plus they should be pretty good this year which may be the last time for a while since they have no future recruits left so they might as well try to have one last good season.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
Well, I hope the citizens of Louisville are happy they build the 22,000 seat KFC Yum Center. Lots of great horse shows will be happening there Iím sure! If I am Louisville, I am at making an announcement there will be no postseason participation this year. I would do it on Black Friday, right in the middle of what will be a huge college football weekend.
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Yum has been struggling for awhile and now they are really shook

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cou.../amp/706008001

https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...nter-deal.html
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:26 PM
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So Braxton Beverly, who was said by the NCAA, he had to sit a year after taking a class and transferring, now can play for NCSt. North Carolina is loving the NCAA this year. You can be sure the attorneys called this shot, but wait till another guy transfers and sues based on the Beverly decision.
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So Braxton Beverly, who was said by the NCAA, he had to sit a year after taking a class and transferring, now can play for NCSt. North Carolina is loving the NCAA this year. You can be sure the attorneys called this shot, but wait till another guy transfers and sues based on the Beverly decision.
I absolutely thought Beverly should be eligible. Enrolled at tOSU and then they fired Matta after he started classes. He shouldn't have needed to go through 3 rounds of appeals.

If I'm a kid who transfers for any reason I'm just going to lawyer up immediately.
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  #375  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:08 PM
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So I noticed that Minnesota (!?!) is ranked #14 in the nation. The last time they won a game in the NCAA tournament + had a winning record in the B10 in the same year was sometime around the Clinton administration.

How are they getting all this talent to come to Minnesota?

And what was their coach's last name again? Something familiar, but I just can't remember.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
So I noticed that Minnesota (!?!) is ranked #14 in the nation. The last time they won a game in the NCAA tournament + had a winning record in the B10 in the same year was sometime around the Clinton administration.

How are they getting all this talent to come to Minnesota?

And what was their coach's last name again? Something familiar, but I just can't remember.


Peewee Pitino?
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Peewee Pitino?
I don't think it's fair to compare a current college basketball head coach with your high school senior picture.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
I don't think it's fair to compare a current college basketball head coach with your high school senior picture.
My actual 'Senior' picture...

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