The 2023 Transfer Portal

[Swampy Meadows]

There are already 117 players in the Transfer Portal, including our guys Kaleb Washington and Tyrone Green:

https://verbalcommits.com/transfers/2023/D1

[CoffeeCan]

Like it or not, the portal is not going anywhere.

Does the portal help us with filling out our roster, or hurt us in losing bench players or stars going to a bigger program?

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows There are already 117 players in the Transfer Portal, including our guys Kaleb Washington and Tyrone Green: https://verbalcommits.com/transfers/2023/D1

You have called him Tyrone Green on multiple sites now...is there a joke I am missing?

[Swampy Meadows]

Baker. Tyrone Baker. I called him Tyrone Green at AG’s press conference at the exhibition game, too. I’ve got green on the brain.
Posted via Mobile Device

[cj]

Freshman guard Skyy Clark transferring from Illinois.
They owe us one. Come to Dayton!!

[The Gem]

I am sitting here with my crystal ball, an empty cup of tea, and my magic 8 ball to see who will be wearing the red and blue next year.
players I think will be back:
Mali. Elvis, Brea, Blakney, and the walk ons. That is a good nucleolus to build around.
players I think will be gone:
Camara, he is 23 and played his 4th year of college ball. It's probably time for him to take the next step in life.
Amafule: They never talk about him being injured anymore and yet he never plays and looks rather forlorn on the bench. Things just haven't worked out for him here.
Holmes: I don't think he is NBA ready, but the experts say he will get drafted next year.
And the rest:
Zimi: He had a very low key role this year and the opportunity to have a bigger role will present itself, but I think he is likely to chase more playing time elsewhere.
Amzil: I heard his interview on the Nancy Wilson pre game segment and I seem to remember he can't get NIL money because of something on his visa. If that can't get straightened out, I suspect he may go back home and play professionally in Europe.
Mike: Who knows. I hope he comes back, but I can also see him getting offers that will give him more exposure and NIL money.

[Swampy Meadows]

Paul McMillian IV, the high scoring PG from Cincinnati Woodward is portalling:

https://verbalcommits.com/players/paul-mcmillan-iv

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by The Gem I am sitting here with my crystal ball, an empty cup of tea, and my magic 8 ball to see who will be wearing the red and blue next year. players I think will be back: Mali. Elvis, Brea, Blakney, and the walk ons. That is a good nucleolus to build around. players I think will be gone: Camara, he is 23 and played his 4th year of college ball. It's probably time for him to take the next step in life. Amafule: They never talk about him being injured anymore and yet he never plays and looks rather forlorn on the bench. Things just haven't worked out for him here. Holmes: I don't think he is NBA ready, but the experts say he will get drafted next year. And the rest: Zimi: He had a very low key role this year and the opportunity to have a bigger role will present itself, but I think he is likely to chase more playing time elsewhere. Amzil: I heard his interview on the Nancy Wilson pre game segment and I seem to remember he can't get NIL money because of something on his visa. If that can't get straightened out, I suspect he may go back home and play professionally in Europe. Mike: Who knows. I hope he comes back, but I can also see him getting offers that will give him more exposure and NIL money.

Smith, Elvis, Blakney, and Brea are an amalgamation of all the things wrong with our current roster. That's not a nucleus I would build around.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by The Gem I am sitting here with my crystal ball, an empty cup of tea, and my magic 8 ball to see who will be wearing the red and blue next year. players I think will be back: Mali. Elvis, Brea, Blakney, and the walk ons. That is a good nucleolus to build around. players I think will be gone: Camara, he is 23 and played his 4th year of college ball. It's probably time for him to take the next step in life. Amafule: They never talk about him being injured anymore and yet he never plays and looks rather forlorn on the bench. Things just haven't worked out for him here. Holmes: I don't think he is NBA ready, but the experts say he will get drafted next year. And the rest: Zimi: He had a very low key role this year and the opportunity to have a bigger role will present itself, but I think he is likely to chase more playing time elsewhere. Amzil: I heard his interview on the Nancy Wilson pre game segment and I seem to remember he can't get NIL money because of something on his visa. If that can't get straightened out, I suspect he may go back home and play professionally in Europe. Mike: Who knows. I hope he comes back, but I can also see him getting offers that will give him more exposure and NIL money.

I would be surprised if Blakney is back next year. No inside info, but it looked to me like it was more doghouse than being hurt the last few weeks.

[OSU Flyer]

@ThePortalReport

Hampton transfer Russell Dean (@deuceydoo_) tells TPR that he has received interest from:

UAB
NIU
UMBC
SFA
Loyola Marymount
Montana
Liberty
Radford
Queens (NC)
Dayton
Rider
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

@247HSHoops

Louisville wing Kamari Lands just entered the transfer portal. He told me these schools have reached out so far:

Arkansas
St. John’s
Oregon State
Louisiana Tech
Towson
Dayton
Portland State

Lands averaged 5.9PPG during his freshman season at Louisville.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 I would be surprised if Blakney is back next year. No inside info, but it looked to me like it was more doghouse than being hurt the last few weeks.

Add mike.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Add mike.

Do you mean he is in the doghouse or he just wants to find greener pastures?

[Flyer 86]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer @ThePortalReport Hampton transfer Russell Dean (@deuceydoo_) tells TPR that he has received interest from: UAB NIU UMBC SFA Loyola Marymount Montana Liberty Radford Queens (NC) Dayton Rider Posted via Mobile Device

Got some great numbers. And he's a 6 foot 5 inch guard

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by The Gem Do you mean he is in the doghouse or he just wants to find greener pastures?

Greener. I hope I'm wrong.

[st marys]

I have no special inside knowledge, but based on he's dad's comments on twitter I would not be surprised if Mike transfers. His dad was not happy with his playing time.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I can’t see Mike returning to sit behind Elvis, Brea, and Mali. I can’t see anyone wanting to do that. To be honest, I don’t want someone who isn’t better than Elvis, Brea, and Mali.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I can’t see Mike returning to sit behind Elvis, Brea, and Mali. I can’t see anyone wanting to do that. To be honest, I don’t want someone who isn’t better than Elvis, Brea, and Mali. Posted via Mobile Device

The Mali hate after yesterday's game is over the top. Mali showed when healthy what he could last year as a Freshman. And he showed bits and pieces this season while injured. And he is a true PG.

I think Mike was blocked more by Blakney and Amzil playing the 3 position than anything else, along with the fact he had to be preserved to play PG when Mali needed a breather.

If there isn't a mass exodus this season and either Camara or Holmes stays, I see a situation where the starting lineup could be(if Mike stays which I doubt) of Mali, Elvis, Mike, Amzil(if he stays) and Camara/Holmes.

Would I be happy with that? NO. But that looks like the best scenario I can muster. It would also take going out and finding another true PG to spell or split time with Mali. It would also take finding another big unless Richard has fooled us all and he's actually productive.

But again, that's the best possible scenario. The only players that I think will most likely stay are Mali and Elvis. The rest could all walk for all I know.

[CoffeeCan]

If you played last year and your name was not Camara or Holmes... why would you come back until you heard from Grant or Neil on Grant's fate?

They have to announce something to someone and soon

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I can’t see Mike returning to sit behind Elvis, Brea, and Mali. I can’t see anyone wanting to do that. To be honest, I don’t want someone who isn’t better than Elvis, Brea, and Mali. Posted via Mobile Device

Are you saying that Grant would play those guys over Mike even if Mike is better, or that Mike is not as good? If it's the former, then we have the wrong coach.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan If you played last year and your name was not Camara or Holmes... why would you come back until you heard from Grant or Neil on Grant's fate? They have to announce something to someone and soon

Because if your name is Elvis, you would have to sit next year if you transfer right?

Also, next year will be Camara's 5th. Not too many 4 year players get drafted to the NBA let alone 5 year players. If he has even a hair of a chance of being drafted, he needs to try it and if he's bypassed, move on to pro basketball somewhere else.

[CoffeeCan]

I am still not sure what Elvis was brought here to do. I did not think he really was special at shooting, creating, defense, etc. Just a guy.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I am still not sure what Elvis was brought here to do. I did not think he really was special at shooting, creating, defense, etc. Just a guy.

Elvis, while inconsistent last year (2021-2022), has a pretty good line of stats and if that would've transferred over to this season, it would've gone a long way into making this team more respectful. And he was able to create his own shots last year where he was either very cold or very hot with that little fade away jumper.

He's not my cup of tea, because I hate players that disappear half the time because they're shooting is so shaky, but he was key in our turnaround last year.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Elvis, while inconsistent last year (2021-2022), has a pretty good line of stats and if that would've transferred over to this season, it would've gone a long way into making this team more respectful. And he was able to create his own shots last year where he was either very cold or very hot with that little fade away jumper. He's not my cup of tea, because I hate players that disappear half the time because they're shooting is so shaky, but he was key in our turnaround last year.

I guess I can buy that... I just dont think him and Mali should be on the floor together... and if we are expecting Mali to have 32+ mins per game where does that leave Elvis?

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 The Mali hate after yesterday's game is over the top. Mali showed when healthy what he could last year as a Freshman. And he showed bits and pieces this season while injured. And he is a true PG. I think Mike was blocked more by Blakney and Amzil playing the 3 position than anything else, along with the fact he had to be preserved to play PG when Mali needed a breather. If there isn't a mass exodus this season and either Camara or Holmes stays, I see a situation where the starting lineup could be(if Mike stays which I doubt) of Mali, Elvis, Mike, Amzil(if he stays) and Camara/Holmes. Would I be happy with that? NO. But that looks like the best scenario I can muster. It would also take going out and finding another true PG to spell or split time with Mali. It would also take finding another big unless Richard has fooled us all and he's actually productive. But again, that's the best possible scenario. The only players that I think will most likely stay are Mali and Elvis. The rest could all walk for all I know.

He will not stay if he is going to sit and watch Mali, Brea, and Elvis. He has a much higher ceiling, and he shouldn’t be slotted behind them. The team performed well when he was at the point. I certainly prefer the results, too. My hope is that he stays and whoever coaches in 2023-24 targets another starting guard. Let me add that it’s also possible that Mike could play the 2. In an optimal positionless offense, it really doesn’t matter.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jack D]

JJ Starling and Robby Carmody from ND hit the portal

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer He will not stay if he is going to sit and watch Mali, Brea, and Elvis. He has a much higher ceiling, and he shouldn’t be slotted behind them. The team performed well when he was at the point. I certainly prefer the results, too. My hope is that he stays and whoever coaches in 2023-24 targets another starting guard. Let me add that it’s also possible that Mike could play the 2. In an optimal positionless offense, it really doesn’t matter. Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't say anything about starting behind those 3. I had him starting with 2 of them. And he would be a good fit for the 3(call him a 2 if you want but I think he can play as a hybrid G/F at the same time) position as a 3rd guard if you will. Kind of like Scoochie, Kyle and Sibert. Which pushes Amzil to the 4 where everyone thinks he thrives.

[TXFlyerFan]

Mali has capabilities, but he has a lot of holes in his game too, or at least doesn't demonstrate them in game. Maybe he just falls back into what he's comfortable with. I have seen him hit a couple runners lately, so it seems like he can do it, but 99% of the time he drives, just to get stuffed and rarely draws the foul. If your PG is going to drive to the hoop, he either better be creative enough to not get blocked or adept enough to draw the foul. Right now, he's neither. Maybe the injuries precluded him from really working on those things, but unfortunately, with upcoming surgery, he will once again miss significant time when he sould be working on his craft to recover.

[Swampy Meadows]

PG Dominiq Penn from Columbus who was recruited by AG:

https://verbalcommits.com/players/dominiq-penn

[shocka43]

Mali is not the reason for failures this season. Period.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows PG Dominiq Penn from Columbus who was recruited by AG: https://verbalcommits.com/players/dominiq-penn

Only played 37min for Seattle after only playing 9 min at Washington. Pass. We already have 1 PG that can't stay healthy.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Greener. I hope I'm wrong.

I hope so too, but I kind of doubt it.

[OSU Flyer]

@tobias_bass

More schools that have reached out to Robert Jennings:

West Virginia
Oral Roberts
Murray State
Siena
George Washington
FIU
Virginia Tech
Dayton
San Francisco
South Dakota
Louisiana
Youngstown St
UNLV

-Texas Tech power forward
Posted via Mobile Device

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Mali is not the reason for failures this season. Period.

I agree with you.

However, keep in mind you are now entering year 3 with a player that cannot stay healthy.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Mali is not the reason for failures this season. Period.

Agreed.

There is another thread that is shielding Brea, so not his fault.

Obviously it is not Camara's fault

And not Holmes, he was great.

Amzil played great, not his fault

Elvis was hurt and did not play

Richard was a DNP-CD

So was Zimi, DNP-CD

Uhl only played for a second and did fine. Clearly not Uhl

So why are you guys piling on RJ and Mike?


(This is absurd, we all know whose failures led to this)

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Jeff I agree with you. However, keep in mind you are now entering year 3 with a player that cannot stay healthy.

He can't control his health. He busts his ass out there and is limited based on being 100%.

The blame is there is no backup to ease the load on Mali.

The fault lies there.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Agreed. There is another thread that is shielding Brea, so not his fault. Obviously it is not Camara's fault And not Holmes, he was great. Amzil played great, not his fault Elvis was hurt and did not play Richard was a DNP-CD So was Zimi, DNP-CD Uhl only played for a second and did fine. Clearly not Uhl So why are you guys piling on RJ and Mike? (This is absurd, we all know whose failures led to this)

I've maintained for the later part of the season we were the walking wounded. We started out limping (even before the season started) moved to severe limitations of players availability early and mid season and limped across the finish line.

We also had way too many players with DNP status (Washington and Baker) and Zimi and Richard that could have just not been at UD for all they contributed in games. Although I'll take that they most likely were needed in the practice squad duty so they did contribute something.

How can a D1 team carry so many players that did not contribute to the overall success of the program.

The stunning event to me was Washington and Baker gone almost before the season started ... there was a tremendous dis-connect somewhere either in what the players envisioned coming here or what the coach's thought they had gotten for their recruitment effort.

Out of a 13 scholly membership you can't have 4 missing in action and for intent and purposes taking up 'space'. And we haven't discussed any perceived or real limitations of some of the other players in the remaining group.

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Out of a 13 scholly membership you can't have 4 missing in action and for intent and purposes taking up 'space'. And we haven't discussed any perceived or real limitations of some of the other players in the remaining group.

And somehow, even while knowing you had hobbled players and I can only assume at very least a good gut feel a couple were leaving, you still pocket a scholarship??

Insane!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 I've maintained for the later part of the season we were the walking wounded. We started out limping (even before the season started) moved to severe limitations of players availability early and mid season and limped across the finish line. We also had way too many players with DNP status (Washington and Baker) and Zimi and Richard that could have just not been at UD for all they contributed in games. Although I'll take that they most likely were needed in the practice squad duty so they did contribute something. How can a D1 team carry so many players that did not contribute to the overall success of the program. The stunning event to me was Washington and Baker gone almost before the season started ... there was a tremendous dis-connect somewhere either in what the players envisioned coming here or what the coach's thought they had gotten for their recruitment effort. Out of a 13 scholly membership you can't have 4 missing in action and for intent and purposes taking up 'space'. And we haven't discussed any perceived or real limitations of some of the other players in the remaining group.

"disconnect" is a great word to describe it. And when I see how many players have signed up to play for Grant and then get only crumbs of playing time and then leave, I think it's the coach. You have to find minutes for players you will possibly need to count on due to injuries or future importance in following seasons. Especially now that the landscape has changed the way it has.

It started with the inherited players from the AM years and the incoming freshman recruits he talked into keeping their commitments. He got all of the experienced players to stay and most of the recruits and then all but Mikesell and Landers left after one season, oh and Jordan Davis hung around for 2.

To me a coach has to be extremely forthcoming with his role for players he's recruiting and his coaching techniques and disciplinary style. When players come to a program and don't get what was sold to them, they are going to leave. I think there is where the disconnect has to be.

Archie put his very inexperienced backup freshmen into very important games at very important times because he saw gaining experience for the future as a need and keeping his starters as fresh as possible as very important also

Look at Scoochie Smiths MPG stats and compare them to Jalen Crutcher from their sophomore seasons on. Even during the 2014-2015 season when we had only 6 scholarship players, AM found away to have Scooch average only 33 minutes a game and 31 his final 2 seasons.

Grant on the hand gave Jalen Crutcher 37 minutes per game his sophomore season and 38 in his senior season. And the way he let Mali play so many minutes on ankles that need surgery, is it no wonder we blow leads as the game wears on? Again, here I'm focusing on the overusage of player, especially point guards, but that also means less minutes for backups at the position also.

You have to find a way of getting your scholarship players enough playing time to develop and be ready when the call goes out. The way Grant does it stifles development and also makes those players unhappy and ready to bolt as soon as the season is over.

And how many of these players that get bread crumbs their first season hang around for more bench time the next season? And how many of them that did hang around saw their minutes go up as the following season came around? And when I say go up, I mean beyond bread crumb category.

Oh and before anyone mentions Landers, I say that was a unique situation as we had 4 senior starters, 1 Junior 6th man, and let's see, Williams, Mikesell, Miller, Cunningham and Crosby as returning sophomores. Basically Landers was 11th on the depth chart.

[Jack D]

That was quick JJ Starling to Syracuse

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I’m surprised by Starling choosing Cuse so quick. He must have a solid relationship with whoever recruited him. My guess is that the new head coach was his recruiter.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I’m surprised by Starling choosing Cuse so quick. He must have a solid relationship with whoever recruited him. My guess is that the new head coach was his recruiter. Posted via Mobile Device

He said Autry was the reason. He also happened to have grown up just outside of Syracuse.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen And somehow, even while knowing you had hobbled players and I can only assume at very least a good gut feel a couple were leaving, you still pocket a scholarship?? Insane!

So when kids were signing, (freshman and transfers), who did he know was hobbled? Mali was recovering if not recovered from his injury and nobody else was hurt. Likewise, who did you, (let alone Grant), have a gut feeling was leaving?

If what you are saying is that Deuce was more than likely going to NBA and Camara was either going to the NBA or pro somewhere else, fine. If you are talking about kids transferring, no way. In any event, none of those scenarios seem to lead to him getting another guard and then there is the whole conversation of whether or not a bottom of the barrel transfer guard would have helped this team to the point that you would, without the benefit of knowing the future, use a scholarship on such a guy just in case 4 of your guards get hurt at some point of the season. That sort of "worst case scenario" is why you populate the squad with walkons. If you carry six or seven scholarship level guards, what are the chances they all stay? Ask Lynn Greer. MOst kids who transfer transfer for playing time not to sit on the bench in case 4 guys ahead of him get hurt.

Again, there are lots of legitimate criticisms, this is not and never has been one.

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Raise your hand if you predicted before the season started that Washington would transfer at the semester?
Raise your hand if you predicted before the season started that Baker, who just joined the team, would transfer at the semester?
Raise your hand if you predicted before the season started that Greer, who just joined the team, would transfer at the semester?

As for playing time, don't forget that Washington was suspended for multiple games due to his own actions. DNP-CD is more accurately stated DNP-did something stupid.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 So when kids were signing, (freshman and transfers), who did he know was hobbled? Mali was recovering if not recovered from his injury and nobody else was hurt. Likewise, who did you, (let alone Grant), have a gut feeling was leaving? If what you are saying is that Deuce was more than likely going to NBA and Camara was either going to the NBA or pro somewhere else, fine. If you are talking about kids transferring, no way. In any event, none of those scenarios seem to lead to him getting another guard and then there is the whole conversation of whether or not a bottom of the barrel transfer guard would have helped this team to the point that you would, without the benefit of knowing the future, use a scholarship on such a guy just in case 4 of your guards get hurt at some point of the season. That sort of "worst case scenario" is why you populate the squad with walkons. If you carry six or seven scholarship level guards, what are the chances they all stay? Ask Lynn Greer. MOst kids who transfer transfer for playing time not to sit on the bench in case 4 guys ahead of him get hurt. Again, there are lots of legitimate criticisms, this is not and never has been one.

Agree that you can't see the future. You can however take into consideration that major injuries increase the chances of recurrence.

But where I think he got it wrong was the type of guards he had ready to step in if needed. A 6'6 junior who's only supposed talent is jacking up 3s and a 6'8 freshman who brings a whole different offense when used as PG.

I personally believe there's a reason the normal PG is around 6'2 give or take and the normal SG is maybe around 6'4 at the tallest. We had 2 of those guys penciled in as starters and none penciled in as depth. It might not always work this way, but most of the time the taller the player, the slower and the worse they are at dribbling away from pressure. When it comes to backup PG, that's what you need, you don't need shooting from them, you don't necessarily need great passing, what you need is someone to eat up minutes to give your starter a rest without stifling the whole offense. And then still be at not turning the ball over and getting it past half court when you do have an injury. And also having the speed to dart around with the ball to keep the defense on their toes. You need a guy with the skills of John Crosby but know their limitations better than he did. Or Khari price who was basically a ball handler at PG and not really a great passer or shooter(he had great shooting percentages but rarely was open to shoot). They also should be pretty good at defense also.

When we lose Mali and/or Elvis, our whole offense has to change. That's not what's supposed to happen.

There's another way too. Have more 3 guard lineups with a hybrid that's a quality sg and can still be a backup PG. Someone like Vee Sanford maybe. Having a rotation of a bunch of tall guys for the 3 through 5 position is probably what's going to cause us to lose Mike. He really should've gotten most of Brea's minutes when we had a full or almost full roster and more of Blakney's too.

[cj]

No way, you mean Coach Grant should have had a crystal ball and been able to foresee the future!! He must be the only coach in the world that doesn't have that ability. The "hindsight coaches" here truly amaze me.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic Raise your hand if you predicted before the season started that Greer, who just joined the team, would transfer at the semester?

This was last year. Grant knew we didn't have enough guards prior to the season and did nothing but add big men that never play. You don't have to be able to see the future, you just have to be able to count.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 So when kids were signing, (freshman and transfers), who did he know was hobbled? Mali was recovering if not recovered from his injury and nobody else was hurt. Likewise, who did you, (let alone Grant), have a gut feeling was leaving? If what you are saying is that Deuce was more than likely going to NBA and Camara was either going to the NBA or pro somewhere else, fine. If you are talking about kids transferring, no way. In any event, none of those scenarios seem to lead to him getting another guard and then there is the whole conversation of whether or not a bottom of the barrel transfer guard would have helped this team to the point that you would, without the benefit of knowing the future, use a scholarship on such a guy just in case 4 of your guards get hurt at some point of the season. That sort of "worst case scenario" is why you populate the squad with walkons. If you carry six or seven scholarship level guards, what are the chances they all stay? Ask Lynn Greer. MOst kids who transfer transfer for playing time not to sit on the bench in case 4 guys ahead of him get hurt. Again, there are lots of legitimate criticisms, this is not and never has been one.

Yep and AG doesn't have the luxury like the arch chairs here to "assume" anybody was leaving during mid-season.Hell, the closest player to leaving that everybody would have put their mortgage on was Washington and he at least committed to coming back this season.He can't work that way. He has his player meetings after the season and maybe then he gets a better feel. As OSU coach John Cooper use to say everybody wants to play poker but they want to use his chips and not their own as to what he should/shouldn't do.

Would like to know what quality HS player was even available in late March, again, that you're excited about signing and having here for the next 4 years and what transfer/grad transfer wants to log spare minutes in mostly blowout games with Mal, Mike and Elvis back.
Recruiting is never about the players you don't get that affect your program. It's about the players you do get that you're not committed that can cripple a program as they're there for 4-5 years.

Can't get over the posters that ragged on the PG situation during the 2021-2022 season. You had 4 players in Weaver and Mali at the point and Greer and Elvis to start the year as both were combo guards with Elvis logging plenty of PG minutes at DePaul. Greer leaves, Weaver gets hurt and now you have one real PG and another who can fill in. This isn't the waiver wire where you run a guy thru his physical and he gets to suit up for you.

[cj]

Neil's next hire

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Agree that you can't see the future. You can however take into consideration that major injuries increase the chances of recurrence. But where I think he got it wrong was the type of guards he had ready to step in if needed. A 6'6 junior who's only supposed talent is jacking up 3s and a 6'8 freshman who brings a whole different offense when used as PG. I personally believe there's a reason the normal PG is around 6'2 give or take and the normal SG is maybe around 6'4 at the tallest. We had 2 of those guys penciled in as starters and none penciled in as depth. It might not always work this way, but most of the time the taller the player, the slower and the worse they are at dribbling away from pressure. When it comes to backup PG, that's what you need, you don't need shooting from them, you don't necessarily need great passing, what you need is someone to eat up minutes to give your starter a rest without stifling the whole offense. And then still be at not turning the ball over and getting it past half court when you do have an injury. And also having the speed to dart around with the ball to keep the defense on their toes. You need a guy with the skills of John Crosby but know their limitations better than he did. Or Khari price who was basically a ball handler at PG and not really a great passer or shooter(he had great shooting percentages but rarely was open to shoot). They also should be pretty good at defense also. When we lose Mali and/or Elvis, our whole offense has to change. That's not what's supposed to happen. There's another way too. Have more 3 guard lineups with a hybrid that's a quality sg and can still be a backup PG. Someone like Vee Sanford maybe. Having a rotation of a bunch of tall guys for the 3 through 5 position is probably what's going to cause us to lose Mike. He really should've gotten most of Brea's minutes when we had a full or almost full roster and more of Blakney's too.

Your opinion on the type of guard we should be recruiting I can certainly respect. I was reacting to use of the word "insane", not by you, to describe not having another scholarship guard on the roster.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Your opinion on the type of guard we should be recruiting I can certainly respect. I was reacting to use of the word "insane", not by you, to describe not having another scholarship guard on the roster.

Well, the type of guard that I described in my earlier post, if Grant had the opportunity to sign one and didn't, that would be insane. If he just couldn't find one willing to sign, that's unfortunate and the reason why needs to be evaluated and corrected.

[Class of 73 Alum]

I'd love to see the Flyers get in on the other N D player to enter tge portal, Robby Carmody. Big time talent who couldn't get healthy. I know he visited UD at least once and liked his visit.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum I'd love to see the Flyers get in on the other N D player to enter tge portal, Robby Carmody. Big time talent who couldn't get healthy. I know he visited UD at least once and liked his visit.

I'm for anybody who's a big time talent but ^ "who couldn't get healthy" might induce a pause w/o extensive proof that his "unhealthy days" are done.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This was last year. Grant knew we didn't have enough guards prior to the season and did nothing but add big men that never play. You don't have to be able to see the future, you just have to be able to count.

Just curious, who was Scoochie's back up the year Dayton had 6 players and 1 walk-on? Kyle Davis? (he was at best a defensive 2, not a pg). Couldn't you say that AM was extremely lucky that Scoochie never got hurt that year? (YES, you can)...I guess that's what makes AM a coaching legend huh? The ability to know your pg is not going to get hurt even when you're down all those players. And how did Dayton only have 6 scholarship players available that year? Isn't that poor planning on AM??

[Canonball]

Find some quality shooting guards.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Just curious, who was Scoochie's back up the year Dayton had 6 players and 1 walk-on? Kyle Davis? (he was at best a defensive 2, not a pg). Couldn't you say that AM was extremely lucky that Scoochie never got hurt that year? (YES, you can)...I guess that's what makes AM a coaching legend huh? The ability to know your pg is not going to get hurt even when you're down all those players. And how did Dayton only have 6 scholarship players available that year? Isn't that poor planning on AM??

Yes AM was very lucky. Yes it was poor planning. What is your point?

[Chris R]

John Chaney dominated the A10 for over two decades by going 6-7 deep. His PGs never came off the floor.

You can win with 7 or 11. You can win playing Virginia pace or Gonzaga pace. It boils down to talent and schematic fit. There is no right or wrong way because every way has yielded both champions and chumps.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Yes AM was very lucky. Yes it was poor planning. What is your point?

THESE are the VERY same things that are constantly criticized on this board: "How in the world does AG not have a backup PG" and on and on. Not sure if you're guilty but if I had time to review all your posts, it wouldn't surprise me if you made those same comments. IF Schoochie goes down early in the year they only had 6 scholarships available, Dayton wouldn't have made the NIT let alone even have a .500 record. Hindsight is always 20/20. Always.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 THESE are the VERY same things that are constantly criticized on this board: "How in the world does AG not have a backup PG" and on and on. Not sure if you're guilty but if I had time to review all your posts, it wouldn't surprise me if you made those same comments. IF Schoochie goes down early in the year they only had 6 scholarships available, Dayton wouldn't have made the NIT let alone even have a .500 record. Hindsight is always 20/20. Always.

Still don't know what your point is.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Chris R John Chaney dominated the A10 for over two decades by going 6-7 deep. His PGs never came off the floor. You can win with 7 or 11. You can win playing Virginia pace or Gonzaga pace. It boils down to talent and schematic fit. There is no right or wrong way because every way has yielded both champions and chumps.

Well guess what? It ain't working for Anthony Grant. The only successful season he's had here, Crutcher averaged 34 minutes a game rather than 37 and 38 like he did the year before and the year after.

So I guess you have to be a great legendary coach to pull it off. Grant is the opposite of that.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Still don't know what your point is.

Most if not all of the criticisms against AG this year had to do with “poor planning” and yet those very same people ignore that AM did exactly the same thing with respect to “backup” pg’s with scoochie and nothing is said about that.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by longtimeBonehead THESE are the VERY same things that are constantly criticized on this board: "How in the world does AG not have a backup PG" and on and on. Not sure if you're guilty but if I had time to review all your posts, it wouldn't surprise me if you made those same comments. IF Schoochie goes down early in the year they only had 6 scholarships available, Dayton wouldn't have made the NIT let alone even have a .500 record. Hindsight is always 20/20. Always.

Unbelievable!

A coach find himself with 6 scholarship players, one a freshman and has to use a walk-on as the 7th. He lost a backup PG to season ending injury (Ryan Bass), has no player over the height of 6'6 and wins 2 NCAA tournament games.

And this guy says he's lucky that we didn't lose our starting PG. That he's lucky. Yeah, I'm sure Archie felt real lucky that season.

Oh, and yes, Darrell Davis did spell Scoochie at PG. How in the hell do you think he kept Scoochie's minutes to a reasonable level, you know the thing Anthony Grant can't seem to do with his PGs.

Talk about lucky. Grant is so lucky he didn't lose Obi to a season ending injury in 2020. Then he'd be a big fat zero in 6 long seasons. He's also lucky that Archie Miller recruited Mikesell and Landers for him.

[CPFlyer]

Average minutes per game by starting point guard
22-23 29.7 (Mali)
21-22 30.9 (Mali)
20-21 38.1 (Crutcher)
19-20 33.6 (Crutcher)
18-19 36.5 (Crutcher)
17-18 31.2 (Crutcher)
16-17 31.3 (Scoochie)
15-16 31.2 (Scoochie)
14-15 32.8 (Scoochie)
13-14 22.4 (Price)
12-13 33.0 (Dillard)
11-12 32.7 (Dillard)

Every single season, outside of the Khari Price year, Archie Miller's starting point guard played more minutes per game and either season Mali has been our starting point guard.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CPFlyer Average minutes per game by starting point guard 22-23 29.7 (Mali) 21-22 30.9 (Mali) 20-21 38.1 (Crutcher) 19-20 33.6 (Crutcher) 18-19 36.5 (Crutcher) 17-18 31.2 (Crutcher) 16-17 31.3 (Scoochie) 15-16 31.2 (Scoochie) 14-15 32.8 (Scoochie) 13-14 22.4 (Price) 12-13 33.0 (Dillard) 11-12 32.7 (Dillard) Every single season, outside of the Khari Price year, Archie Miller's starting point guard played more minutes per game and either season Mali has been our starting point guard.

The point with Mali wasn't his season average.

It's obvious that Mali's season average is effected by the two or 3 times he got eased back into the lineup. I'm talking about these final 7 games that when Grant felt he was able to do it again, he played 31, 33, 36, 32, 36, 33, 36. And yes, this is a guy who's so physically beaten, he's getting both ankles surgically repaired in the offseason.

Grant never learned what Archie did. And that is you're better off giving your players rest and letting the opponent have an easier time against you for 3 to 4 minutes in the first half and 3 to 4 minutes in the 2nd, and you'll be rewarded with much better play when they are in the game, especially late.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by CPFlyer Average minutes per game by starting point guard 22-23 29.7 (Mali) 21-22 30.9 (Mali) 20-21 38.1 (Crutcher) 19-20 33.6 (Crutcher) 18-19 36.5 (Crutcher) 17-18 31.2 (Crutcher) 16-17 31.3 (Scoochie) 15-16 31.2 (Scoochie) 14-15 32.8 (Scoochie) 13-14 22.4 (Price) 12-13 33.0 (Dillard) 11-12 32.7 (Dillard) Every single season, outside of the Khari Price year, Archie Miller's starting point guard played more minutes per game and either season Mali has been our starting point guard.

I’d love to get stats from when Donoher coached. It wouldn’t surprise me to see 38+ for most of his guards. The point i was making was that the very thing the naysayers criticize AG for, which was lack of a true backup pg, AM did exactly the same thing - but was extremely lucky that Scoochie never got seriously injured in any season.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[CoffeeCan]

A buddy of mine suggested that we raise these banners:

Dayton Flyers 2017-18 "Re-Building Year"
Dayton Flyers 2018-19 "Just Wait Til Next Year"
Dayton Flyers 2019-20 "Global Pandemic"
Dayton Flyers 2020-21 "Covid Hangover"
Dayton Flyers 2021-22 "First Team Out"
Dayton Flyers 2022-23 "So Many Injuries"

[bcross]

Originally Posted by cj No way, you mean Coach Grant should have had a crystal ball and been able to foresee the future!! He must be the only coach in the world that doesn't have that ability. The "hindsight coaches" here truly amaze me.

You can go back and read the threads from the end of the last season where people were calling for Grant to bring in more guards. It was a criticism all offseason and it came back to bite us during the season. No crystal ball needed.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan A buddy of mine suggested that we raise these banners: Dayton Flyers 2017-18 "Re-Building Year" Dayton Flyers 2018-19 "Just Wait Til Next Year" Dayton Flyers 2019-20 "Global Pandemic" Dayton Flyers 2020-21 "Covid Hangover" Dayton Flyers 2021-22 "First Team Out" Dayton Flyers 2022-23 "So Many Injuries"

I think if you copy the first one and change 2017-2018 to 2023-2024, you will be ahead of the game.

Or better yet change the first one to "AM left cupboard bare, only leaving us with Darrell Davis, Cunningham, Mikesell, Williams, Landers, Crosby, Antetokounpo, Jordan Davis, and Svaboda. And he also didn't leave us with Big Steve who should've been a Junior that year.

[soccergod]

Another recruiting thread Hijacked !!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by soccergod Another recruiting thread Hijacked !! Posted via Mobile Device

https://twitter.com/FunDollyM/status...40782640410630

Agreed. Since it's off topic.....here's some Benny Hill to enjoy.

[OSU Flyer]

@ThePortalReport

American transfer Johnny O’Neil tells TPR that he has received interest from over 25 programs including:

Loyola Chicago
Chattanooga
Dayton
Davidson
Rhode Island
Belmont
Posted via Mobile Device

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[do54]

It is a guard oriented game. Nothing personal, but our guards do not shoot well and are not good defensive players. Without an infusion of guards that are good defensively and shoot well, next year will be more of the same.

Camara and Holmes will both probably not be returning. Time for a major reload.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by do54 It is a guard oriented game. Nothing personal, but our guards do not shoot well and are not good defensive players. Without an infusion of guards that are good defensively and shoot well, next year will be more of the same. Camara and Holmes will both probably not be returning. Time for a major reload.

Do we send the current guards packing, or do we carry 7 scholarship guards? I know we have the scholarships available but it seems if we are losing our two best players and they are both front court players, that will need to be addressed as well.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I think we need to add 2 guards with the idea that they are competing for starters minutes. We need more than depth. Mike should start at the 2 or the 3. I would hope that Brea and E come off the bench. With Mali’s recovery timeline unknown, we need a point guard.
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[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I think we need to add 2 guards with the idea that they are competing for starters minutes. We need more than depth. Mike should start at the 2 or the 3. I would hope that Brea and E come off the bench. With Mali’s recovery timeline unknown, we need a point guard. Posted via Mobile Device

That would be 7 scholarship, let's call them back court players because I include RJ in that on account that he is not a front court player. That would leave 6 scholarships, with Amzil taking one and Zimmi taking one, (assuming Holmes and Camara both go pro). I don't disagree that we need a "true" PG and some shooters but it seems to me that if that is what we need to do, and we need to do it because Elvis and Brea don't fit the role or aren't good enough, then why keep them? Same for Zimmi. If we are going to rebuild then let's rebuild, not sprinkle some new guys on top of what many believe is not working. Now if you think that this year's performances by Brea and Elvis were outliers and attributable to injuries/illnesses, then maybe they are good options off the bench.

I also think that in the this age, where guys want to play and have the ability to leave without sitting, it is highly likely that you are going to lose a couple of your scholarship guards so maybe that takes care of itself, but if not I am sure AG can run them out of town like he allegedly did with Lynn Greer.

[CvilleFlyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer @ThePortalReport American transfer Johnny O’Neil tells TPR that he has received interest from over 25 programs including: Loyola Chicago Chattanooga Dayton Davidson Rhode Island Belmont Posted via Mobile Device

We need guards. O'Neil is a 6'9" Forward whose stats are similar to Amzil but does not shoot as well. At American this season he averaged 11.3 PPG, 6.6 rebounds, 44.7% FG, 39.2% on 3's and only 35 for 57 from the free throw line for 61.4% whereas Amzil shot 80%. You are what your stats say you are! We can do better.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[springborofan]

I’ve seen numerous posts that state with a high level of confidence that both Holmes and Camara are not returning. Is there any inside knowledge or just speculation?

I don’t think Holmes is NBA ready so he’d have to transfer. What’s the benefit to him to transfer?

Camara has four years so he can go to Europe right now. Does he enjoy UD? Does he think one more year could improve his chances at the NBA? What’s the benefit to him to transfer?

I’m not sold it is a fait accompli for either one. But, then again, I don’t think the program is in free fall either. The fixes are all attainable:

1) Finding a top level guard who can score at all three levels (and play good D)
2)another PG to share minutes with Mali
3 another shooter who isn’t afraid to mix it up and get more than 7 FT’s in a season,
4) a young big to grab minutes and learn under Holmes and Camara
5) maybe most important…healthy players (for the most part)

Scholarships are available! Two currently (3-1 signee) and two need to become available (Zimi and Amafuele). Four scholarships for the four needs outlined above.

Brea, Elvis and Blakney did not meet expectations for 1 and 3 above. Recruit over all three and let them decide if they want to stay or go. They can play back up roles their last two years. If their attitude sucks, move on. Use their scholarship (if available) on another big.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 That would be 7 scholarship, let's call them back court players because I include RJ in that on account that he is not a front court player. That would leave 6 scholarships, with Amzil taking one and Zimmi taking one, (assuming Holmes and Camara both go pro). I don't disagree that we need a "true" PG and some shooters but it seems to me that if that is what we need to do, and we need to do it because Elvis and Brea don't fit the role or aren't good enough, then why keep them? Same for Zimmi. If we are going to rebuild then let's rebuild, not sprinkle some new guys on top of what many believe is not working. Now if you think that this year's performances by Brea and Elvis were outliers and attributable to injuries/illnesses, then maybe they are good options off the bench. I also think that in the this age, where guys want to play and have the ability to leave without sitting, it is highly likely that you are going to lose a couple of your scholarship guards so maybe that takes care of itself, but if not I am sure AG can run them out of town like he allegedly did with Lynn Greer.

If this team is counting on Zimi, Brea, Amafuele, or Blakney for anything next year the season is already lost.

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer We need guards. O'Neil is a 6'9" Forward whose stats are similar to Amzil but does not shoot as well. At American this season he averaged 11.3 PPG, 6.6 rebounds, 44.7% FG, 39.2% on 3's and only 35 for 57 from the free throw line for 61.4% whereas Amzil shot 80%. You are what your stats say you are! We can do better.

We need guards right now (and I agree, we're probably going to need them regardless), but we're going to need some bigs if Camara and Holmes move on. I would not bet against 1 of 2 doing exactly that, and wouldn't be shocked if both leave. And that assumes we don't see coaching movement, at which point we're probably looking at a mass exodus.

The fact our program is contacting a good number of front court transfers is a pretty decent way to read between the lines:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...H57A66SC72AWE/

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ve seen numerous posts that state with a high level of confidence that both Holmes and Camara are not returning. Is there any inside knowledge or just speculation? I don’t think Holmes is NBA ready so he’d have to transfer. What’s the benefit to him to transfer? Camara has four years so he can go to Europe right now. Does he enjoy UD? Does he think one more year could improve his chances at the NBA? What’s the benefit to him to transfer?

It doesn't matter what you think of Holmes' NBA chances, it matters what NBA scouts and GMs think. And if he can go, he should go. What's the benefit of transferring? Probably getting him a coaching staff that can further develop his skills and surround him with more talent so he can enjoy some level of team success at the collegiate level. I bet it would be fun to play in the tournament, and he wouldn't know it from his Dayton career.

Camara can go make money professionally. What's the benefit to sticking around? He will be another year older when trying to catch on professionally, and his skills aren't likely to measurably improve after another year of A10 basketball at this point in his career. They honored him at senior night for a reason, and it isn't because they expect him to return next year. I wish him luck and hope he can catch on a NBA roster somewhere, but if not go get paid while you can.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer We need guards. O'Neil is a 6'9" Forward whose stats are similar to Amzil but does not shoot as well. At American this season he averaged 11.3 PPG, 6.6 rebounds, 44.7% FG, 39.2% on 3's and only 35 for 57 from the free throw line for 61.4% whereas Amzil shot 80%. You are what your stats say you are! We can do better.

We are gonna need both unless you like a front court of Amzil, Zimi , and Richard, with nobody behind them. Also, not to be a snob but there has to be kids transferring from P5 schools looking for more PT without taking a huge step down or no step down at all. I assume alot of those guys are waiting to see who declares for the draft and alot of them are still playing. Again, I realize that the P5 does not have a monopoly on talent but I have to think that those kids are much more of known quantities, and the P5 transfer route has generally worked out well in the past, (Siebert, Sanford, Watson, Camara...Elvis is the outlier but DePaul is a power conference school in name only).

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by springborofan If this team is counting on Zimi, Brea, Amafuele, or Blakney for anything next year the season is already lost.

That was my point...but you need alot more than a couple guards. On the other hand if you are what your stats say you are, then Brea should be in for a heck of a season .

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ve seen numerous posts that state with a high level of confidence that both Holmes and Camara are not returning. Is there any inside knowledge or just speculation? I don’t think Holmes is NBA ready so he’d have to transfer. What’s the benefit to him to transfer? Camara has four years so he can go to Europe right now. Does he enjoy UD? Does he think one more year could improve his chances at the NBA? What’s the benefit to him to transfer? I’m not sold it is a fait accompli for either one. But, then again, I don’t think the program is in free fall either. The fixes are all attainable: 1) Finding a top level guard who can score at all three levels (and play good D) 2)another PG to share minutes with Mali 3 another shooter who isn’t afraid to mix it up and get more than 7 FT’s in a season, 4) a young big to grab minutes and learn under Holmes and Camara 5) maybe most important…healthy players (for the most part) Scholarships are available! Two currently (3-1 signee) and two need to become available (Zimi and Amafuele). Four scholarships for the four needs outlined above. Brea, Elvis and Blakney did not meet expectations for 1 and 3 above. Recruit over all three and let them decide if they want to stay or go. They can play back up roles their last two years. If their attitude sucks, move on. Use their scholarship (if available) on another big.

Camara has played four years of college ball. He is 23, and had his senior night. The only reason he has eligibility is because of the extra year he got due to covid. It's time for him to take the next step in life. I agree with you about Holmes, but I doubt he agrees with us. If he gets drafted, he would be foolish to come back. I think he is a fringe NBA guy at best right now, but perhaps the G league would be a better place to become NBA ready. He may also get told by NBA scouts to go back to college, but play in a better conference against better competition.

[steve]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 It doesn't matter what you think of Holmes' NBA chances, it matters what NBA scouts and GMs think. And if he can go, he should go. What's the benefit of transferring? Probably getting him a coaching staff that can further develop his skills and surround him with more talent so he can enjoy some level of team success at the collegiate level. I bet it would be fun to play in the tournament, and he wouldn't know it from his Dayton career. Camara can go make money professionally. What's the benefit to sticking around? He will be another year older when trying to catch on professionally, and his skills aren't likely to measurably improve after another year of A10 basketball at this point in his career. They honored him at senior night for a reason, and it isn't because they expect him to return next year. I wish him luck and hope he can catch on a NBA roster somewhere, but if not go get paid while you can.

Neither guy, imho,will be here next year and I'd bet on it for most of the reasons you mention. In fact, even of Holmes doesn't enter the draft he's not sticking around UD. There are plenty of P5 schools that would salivate having him and give him a much much better NIL package not to mention he'll improve his game going against bigger and better front lines.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ve seen numerous posts that state with a high level of confidence that both Holmes and Camara are not returning. Is there any inside knowledge or just speculation? I don’t think Holmes is NBA ready so he’d have to transfer. What’s the benefit to him to transfer? Camara has four years so he can go to Europe right now. Does he enjoy UD? Does he think one more year could improve his chances at the NBA? What’s the benefit to him to transfer? I’m not sold it is a fait accompli for either one. But, then again, I don’t think the program is in free fall either. The fixes are all attainable: 1) Finding a top level guard who can score at all three levels (and play good D) 2)another PG to share minutes with Mali 3 another shooter who isn’t afraid to mix it up and get more than 7 FT’s in a season, 4) a young big to grab minutes and learn under Holmes and Camara 5) maybe most important…healthy players (for the most part) Scholarships are available! Two currently (3-1 signee) and two need to become available (Zimi and Amafuele). Four scholarships for the four needs outlined above. Brea, Elvis and Blakney did not meet expectations for 1 and 3 above. Recruit over all three and let them decide if they want to stay or go. They can play back up roles their last two years. If their attitude sucks, move on. Use their scholarship (if available) on another big.

If Camara comes back I will be shocked and very happy. I think Deuce will go pro but the advantages to him transferring are evident in your post, (he can play with better guards and shooters so he gets decent entry passes and doesn't immediately get triple teamed everytime he touches the ball). I mean you can't say our guards suck and then ignore what the means for an NBA prospect big man.

I would say anytime we can get a top level guard who can score at all three levels and play good D, we should grab him even if it means we have to yank a scholarship from someone else. I mean when was the last time we had a guy who fits that description? Not saying it can't/won't happen but I am not going to hold my breath. A backup PG, another shooter, and big is doable and necessary, but you are betting on only needing one big which I assume means Holmes and Camara both come back. I don't think that is realistic.

PS: I didn't mean to suggest that you said our guards suck but that seems to be the general consensus of alot of folks.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 That was my point...but you need alot more than a couple guards. On the other hand if you are what your stats say you are, then Brea should be in for a heck of a season .

Great point - until they don’t want to look at stats then they find a way to discount them. That’s why they have 2 sides of the mouth I guess.
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ve seen numerous posts that state with a high level of confidence that both Holmes and Camara are not returning. Is there any inside knowledge or just speculation? I don’t think Holmes is NBA ready so he’d have to transfer. What’s the benefit to him to transfer? Camara has four years so he can go to Europe right now. Does he enjoy UD? Does he think one more year could improve his chances at the NBA? What’s the benefit to him to transfer? I’m not sold it is a fait accompli for either one. But, then again, I don’t think the program is in free fall either. The fixes are all attainable: 1) Finding a top level guard who can score at all three levels (and play good D) 2)another PG to share minutes with Mali 3 another shooter who isn’t afraid to mix it up and get more than 7 FT’s in a season, 4) a young big to grab minutes and learn under Holmes and Camara 5) maybe most important…healthy players (for the most part) Scholarships are available! Two currently (3-1 signee) and two need to become available (Zimi and Amafuele). Four scholarships for the four needs outlined above. Brea, Elvis and Blakney did not meet expectations for 1 and 3 above. Recruit over all three and let them decide if they want to stay or go. They can play back up roles their last two years. If their attitude sucks, move on. Use their scholarship (if available) on another big.

My understanding is that since Camara is a Belgian citizen and has an EU passport he’s more valuable than your typical college player in Europe. European teams are capped at as few as two non-EU passport holders
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[springborofan]

I’ll add more color to my initial post/questions on Holmes & Camara:

Holmes is probably a 2nd round pick right now. With no guarantee contract for 2nd rounders, I think it’s not a done deal he goes. He needs strength and he needs to develop an outside shot. Does Kansas afford him that opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not sure the NIL $ for one year is that much different. He (and his family) strike me as “Trust the Process” kind of people. He came here for a reason and he may ultimately believe he’s making the progress he needs but just needs one more year. Maybe, maybe not.

I’m less optimistic about Camara staying because he can make $ in Europe. That said, I go back to…is that his ultimate goal? Does he think some improvement could lead him to NBA? Does he enjoy the college life? He knows he’s got the fallback Euro opportunity. Maybe he stays? On a different note, I don’t think he can transfer without sitting out a year since he already done so once. So it’s Euro or stay.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ll add more color to my initial post/questions on Holmes & Camara: Holmes is probably a 2nd round pick right now. With no guarantee contract for 2nd rounders, I think it’s not a done deal he goes. He needs strength and he needs to develop an outside shot. Does Kansas afford him that opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not sure the NIL $ for one year is that much different. He (and his family) strike me as “Trust the Process” kind of people. He came here for a reason and he may ultimately believe he’s making the progress he needs but just needs one more year. Maybe, maybe not. I’m less optimistic about Camara staying because he can make $ in Europe. That said, I go back to…is that his ultimate goal? Does he think some improvement could lead him to NBA? Does he enjoy the college life? He knows he’s got the fallback Euro opportunity. Maybe he stays? On a different note, I don’t think he can transfer without sitting out a year since he already done so once. So it’s Euro or stay.

Here is the camp in which I find myself...I think Camara has more NBA-desired talent than Holmes. He just needs one more year of visibility. As I have commented previously, if he came back for one more year he would be an All-American candidate and possible first round NBA draft pick in 2024. Holmes is not ready. He needs to come back for one more year, hopefully here...but I am skeptical he will remain a Flyer.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ll add more color to my initial post/questions on Holmes & Camara: Holmes is probably a 2nd round pick right now. With no guarantee contract for 2nd rounders, I think it’s not a done deal he goes. He needs strength and he needs to develop an outside shot. Does Kansas afford him that opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not sure the NIL $ for one year is that much different. He (and his family) strike me as “Trust the Process” kind of people. He came here for a reason and he may ultimately believe he’s making the progress he needs but just needs one more year. Maybe, maybe not. I’m less optimistic about Camara staying because he can make $ in Europe. That said, I go back to…is that his ultimate goal? Does he think some improvement could lead him to NBA? Does he enjoy the college life? He knows he’s got the fallback Euro opportunity. Maybe he stays? On a different note, I don’t think he can transfer without sitting out a year since he already done so once. So it’s Euro or stay.

Camara will have played 5 seasons of college if he stays. The NBA usually takes guys that look ready no later than after 3rd season. It's a long shot for him to get to the NBA this year, the odds after next will be even worse.

Deuce has probably learned all there is to learn from Anthony Grant. If there's still things Grant has been saving to teach him, well,, that's another bad move from the coach. He needs to find himself someone that can take him to the next level. Whether that means another college coach or the G league if he stays around, I'll be shocked.

[cj]

Has anyone had the thought that Holmes has reached his peak?
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[zmz723]

Camara is about to turn 23. No way an NBA team drafts a 24 year old in the first round
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[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by cj Has anyone had the thought that Holmes has reached his peak? Posted via Mobile Device

I guess reaching peak is different from reaching potential, it's possible but it's not that he's not able to get better, if he's reached his peak than it's because he's not working to improve.

As a defender, I believe he's better than he's showed but just like Obi(I'm not saying he's as good as Deuce defensively) he was probably instructed to hold back and stay out of foul trouble, especially with Camara racking them up.

As an offensive player, he's got so many areas to improve, it's hard for me to believe he can't.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by springborofan I’ll add more color to my initial post/questions on Holmes & Camara: Holmes is probably a 2nd round pick right now. With no guarantee contract for 2nd rounders, I think it’s not a done deal he goes. He needs strength and he needs to develop an outside shot. Does Kansas afford him that opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not sure the NIL $ for one year is that much different. He (and his family) strike me as “Trust the Process” kind of people. He came here for a reason and he may ultimately believe he’s making the progress he needs but just needs one more year. Maybe, maybe not. I’m less optimistic about Camara staying because he can make $ in Europe. That said, I go back to…is that his ultimate goal? Does he think some improvement could lead him to NBA? Does he enjoy the college life? He knows he’s got the fallback Euro opportunity. Maybe he stays? On a different note, I don’t think he can transfer without sitting out a year since he already done so once. So it’s Euro or stay.

I think he can grad transfer without sitting.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan I think he can grad transfer without sitting.

Good point. I hadn’t considered that.

[The Gem]

Our old pal Jablo is on the case. None of the guys really jumps out and makes think, "I really hope they get that guy." Also, no Flyers have entered the portal. Not sure what that means, but if any of them already had their minds made up, I am not sure what they are waiting for.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...H57A66SC72AWE/

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by The Gem Our old pal Jablo is on the case. None of the guys really jumps out and makes think, "I really hope they get that guy." Also, no Flyers have entered the portal. Not sure what that means, but if any of them already had their minds made up, I am not sure what they are waiting for. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...H57A66SC72AWE/

From that list, Dean and Hugley are the ones that stand out to me. Dean because he seems to be a wing who can score. Hugley because he’s a big who’s 1 year removed from posting good stats for an ACC school, who might be able to replace some of Tou’s production if he leaves (as this board suspects he will). Beyond that, it looks like a litany of what we already have in abundance (unproductive backup forwards).
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[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by The Gem Our old pal Jablo is on the case. None of the guys really jumps out and makes think, "I really hope they get that guy." Also, no Flyers have entered the portal. Not sure what that means, but if any of them already had their minds made up, I am not sure what they are waiting for. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...H57A66SC72AWE/

He's on the case, but unless I'm mistaken, he's wrong. He said there's currently 1 open scholarship, but in fact, there are two. The one unused went to Simon, and we had two players transfer out.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan He's on the case, but unless I'm mistaken, he's wrong. He said there's currently 1 open scholarship, but in fact, there are two. The one unused went to Simon, and we had two players transfer out.

I thought it said at three scholarships?

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 From that list, Dean and Hugley are the ones that stand out to me. Dean because he seems to be a wing who can score. Hugley because he’s a big who’s 1 year removed from posting good stats for an ACC school, who might be able to replace some of Tou’s production if he leaves (as this board suspects he will). Beyond that, it looks like a litany of what we already have in abundance (unproductive backup forwards). Posted via Mobile Device

Dean is the one who stuck out as probably the best of that bunch. He is an experienced player who could be very useful. When I look at Lands I think that I would normally be excited about possibly getting a #39 recruit, but I'm not. Maybe it's just that Louisville is such a train wreck.