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  #101  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Every year hope springs eternal. I think the 8 we have are a good core. We need to fill those other 5 with good players. Any transfer with immediate eligibility who is looking for significant playing time will likely see Dayton as a good opportunity. I expect there are one or two other unsigned incoming freshman that could be had as well. Since the roster now shakes up as follows:

Crutcher
Cohill
JDavis
Mikesell
Landers
Toppin
Cunningham
Matos
That 8 man rotation might actually be an improvement over this season. Losing DD hurts, but I think Jordan Davis can fill those shoes. Beyond DD, We didn't lose anyone that contributed on a consistent basis. If Toppin, Matos, Cohill or any of the other guys still to come can contribute, I don't think we would be any worse than this past season.

I know that shouldn't be the bar, but when you have 1 senior and still lose 6 guys, that might have to be the bar.
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  #102  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:35 PM
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Here's a tweet from Jablonski to put it in perspective:

"With Darrell Davis and Joey Gruden leaving, plus Kostas, X, Crosby and Pierce, Dayton loses 888 of 2,244 points (39.7 percent). Darrell accounted for 477 of those points. Last year, losing 4 seniors, plus Miller and Mikesell, UD lost 1,807 of 2,428 points (74.4)."
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  #103  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Matt Derenbecker, Steve Thomas, Detwon Rogers ...
Thomas was Gregory
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  #104  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Matt Derenbecker, Steve Thomas, Detwon Rogers ...
How can we forget Rogers. I believe Thomas was a BG come and goer.
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  #105  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
That 8 man rotation might actually be an improvement over this season. Losing DD hurts, but I think Jordan Davis can fill those shoes. Beyond DD, We didn't lose anyone that contributed on a consistent basis. If Toppin, Matos, Cohill or any of the other guys still to come can contribute, I don't think we would be any worse than this past season.

I know that shouldn't be the bar, but when you have 1 senior and still lose 6 guys, that might have to be the bar.
At this point, any bar will do.
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  #106  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
or maybe he is leaving because he simply didn't like the coach ?

players who love coaches stay and play, players that hate coaches run and quit, facts don't lie, 5 players have now left, you cannot sit there and type and say AG being the coach did not play a part in this
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. These players that have left simply didn't like the plan that Anthony related to them. Anthony had enough time with his staff to evaluate all the players and where they might take the program. It pretty much follows that they did not agree with his assessment and didn't much care for him on the way out the door.
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  #107  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
My son is friends with Joey Gruden and he was told a few weeks ago that KA hated going to school and was probably going to leave. I posted this in PP about 2 weeks ago and unfortunately it was true. If he liked going to school and wanted to transfer then why did he drop his classes and take off?
Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Matt Derenbecker, Steve Thomas, Detwon Rogers ...
You just blew Smitty Littles mind
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  #108  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
The perpetual rebuild. More and more it looks like AG is going to be a nightmare.
Figures you would blame AG.

For the sake of discussion and not a retread AG bashing thread...many of these you have stated this entire season.

Svoboda...non-factor pretty much the entire season. Didn't give much to forecast future upside other than a warm body. His departure is a wash as a freshman next year can come in and do the same freshman stuff he did this year. Best of luck to him and his family.

XW....non-factor the entire season. He didn't jive with the new way of doing things the AG way, which has to do with accountability. He gave up on the team mid way through the season and failed to even travel or show up for the end of the season. His departure is a positive as he didn't even provide anything positive off the court. MS at least was a hard worker and not a distraction to the team.

Pierce. Dueces. Panic move by Archie. Did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

Crosby...non-factor. Was back here because he felt it was a better option than transferring. While he didn't do anything detrimental to the team, he was a bit in over his head in terms of who he was going up against and his situation with PT. His departure is a wash as proven with Crutcher as an incoming freshman. Best of luck to JC.

Kostas...bummer as he has a promising future. Who cares if he was the "recruit of all recruits" and the "one" as a handful of people assume. He didn't play for a reason. He didn't like school, doesn't need school, and has one goal...become pro. He does't need UD to get to that level as he has a slush fund to get the best training and the best resources. He can spend 40 hours a week on hoops versus 20 hours a week in classes. I liked his promise. Yes...he is a loss but replaceable.

In all of this, guys have left that you, and many others, have stated time and time again are not "positives" on the roster. So...you got your way in terms of personnel. Correct?

Do you have any knowledge of the incoming freshman or possible transfers? Are they better or worse than the 4 washes that are out the door? Do you keep the guys that aren't contributing to squeeze blood out of a turnip or simply have a fire sale and get guys that buy in and have time to develop?

The good thing is that there are many people who know much more about the situation that you. Many insiders have valuable information if you would pay attention. You are blinded by your own voice that you refuse to see the big picture. Couple guys don't like the new coach and a message board warrior knows more about the game of basketball than a veteran DI coach. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Your presence as a UD basketball fan would be best served by either giving it up, or simply letting some of this take course. You can pull up this thread when you get to eat crow in the future. Most of us can at least sit back and say we afforded AG, his staff, his players, and the UD administration a fair shot to do their thing prior to calling for a fire sale.

Last edited by shocka43; 03-22-2018 at 10:19 PM..
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  #109  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:46 PM
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Agree with most others in that I could care less about X, Pierce, and Crosby. Crosby is probably the worst loss of those three because we only have one other PG.

Kostas and Svo hurt a little because I believe they have bright futures. But Kostas is a liability on the court with his incessant trash-talking and fight starting and it is quite possible that Svo would never turn the corner. Oh well.

SL next year:

Crutcher
Davis
Landers
Mikesell
Cunningham

Matos, Cohill, and Topping all getting good minutes. That forms a pretty solid core. Anyone AG adds from here on out will be a project or icing on the cake. BOY could we use a true PG (or two)!
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  #110  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Agree with most others in that I could care less about X, Pierce, and Crosby. Crosby is probably the worst loss of those three because we only have one other PG.

Kostas and Svo hurt a little because I believe they have bright futures. But Kostas is a liability on the court with his incessant trash-talking and fight starting and it is quite possible that Svo would never turn the corner. Oh well.

SL next year:

Crutcher
Davis
Landers
Mikesell
Cunningham

Matos, Cohill, and Topping all getting good minutes. That forms a pretty solid core. Anyone AG adds from here on out will be a project or icing on the cake. BOY could we use a true PG (or two)!
4/5 starters returning with a year of experience under their belt. Dayton will be much improved over the terrible 14-17 season this year. Add 1-2 more jucos and 1-2 more recruits and all is well.
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  #111  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
The perpetual rebuild. More and more it looks like AG is going to be a nightmare.
none of those kids were AG recruits..chill
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  #112  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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I have to think that at least 2-3 player with immediate eligibility sign on in the next month or two. At least one will be a quality point guard. Any player on the outside with options to play next year has to look at this as a golden opportunity. Not going to re-hash the opinions of all that left but I'd have to think that a few of the chronic complainers would be ecstatic with the departure of at least a few that have left.

And yet, we hear that the world is crashing, what a terrible coach, yada yada...Isn't this what you wanted? New player to rebuild quickly? This is exactly what should happen. I'd be really disappointed if NOBODY is signed leaving 5 gaping scholarship holes...I just don't see that happening. Do I see a sweet 16 next year? Probably not but I am going to allow it all to play out....seeing that I'm a little girl with a broken heart....(according to one of you)

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  #113  
Old 03-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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Kostas is a real loss because we're never getting a guy with his size and athleticism in here again. It's rare for Kentucky or Kansas to find a guy with physical talents, let alone Dayton.

The other guys were expected.

This is a wonderful opportunity to get his guys in here. AG I'm told is a great recruiter and 'relentless' on the recruiting trail so I'm sure we'll see upgraded players on the roster and the team back in the tourney next year
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  #114  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Kostas is a real loss because we're never getting a guy with his size and athleticism in here again. It's rare for Kentucky or Kansas to find a guy with physical talents, let alone Dayton.
Correct...but UK players need Coach Cal and UK to take their HS talent to the pros. Kostas doesn't need any college to get to where he needs to be. He has those channels already covered and the money to get the exposure without college. He can go make 100k a year screwing around overseas and have the best of the best in terms of training...he can stay in the states and live off his brother with all the access he needs.
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  #115  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:22 PM
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I'm excited!

AG was known as a recruiter. Well, now he has the opportunity to bring in his guys. This just speeds up the timeline by one year.

This team will compete for the A10 championship next year and we'll be in the NCAA. Book it!
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  #116  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:22 PM
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I dislike AG more than Smitty but I fail to see how this isn't a positive. Guys who don't want to be here are gone and AG can replace them with players who buy in presumably and can make an actual contribution.
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  #117  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:25 PM
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Hopefully his national team duties don't interfere with the recruiting this spring
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  #118  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Figures you would blame AG.

For the sake of discussion and not a retread AG bashing thread...many of these you have stated this entire season.

Svoboda...non-factor pretty much the entire season. Didn't give much to forecast future upside other than a warm body. His departure is a wash as a freshman next year can come in and do the same freshman stuff he did this year. Best of luck to him and his family.

XW....non-factor the entire season. His family wanted him to depart prior to Christmas. He wanted to stay. He didn't jive with the new way of doing things the AG way, which has to do with accountability. He gave up on the team mid way through the season and failed to even travel or show up for the end of the season. His departure is a positive as he didn't even provide anything positive off the court. MS at least was a hard worker and not a distraction to the team.

Pierce. Dueces. Panic move by Archie. Did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

Crosby...non-factor. Was back here because he felt it was a better option than transferring. While he didn't do anything detrimental to the team, he was a bit in over his head in terms of who he was going up against and his situation with PT. His departure is a wash as proven with Crutcher as an incoming freshman. Best of luck to JC.

Kostas...bummer as he has a promising future. Who cares if he was the "recruit of all recruits" and the "one" as a handful of people assume. He didn't play for a reason. He didn't like school, doesn't need school, and has one goal...become pro. He does't need UD to get to that level as he has a slush fund to get the best training and the best resources. He can spend 40 hours a week on hoops versus 20 hours a week in classes. I liked his promise. Yes...he is a loss but replaceable.

In all of this, guys have left that you, and many others, have stated time and time again are not "positives" on the roster. So...you got your way in terms of personnel. Correct?

Do you have any knowledge of the incoming freshman or possible transfers? Are they better or worst than the 4 washes that are out the door? Do you keep the guys that aren't contributing to squeeze blood out of a turnip or simply have a fire sale and get guys that buy in and have time to develop?

The good thing is that there are many people who know much more about the situation that you. Many insiders have valuable information if you would pay attention. You are blinded by your own voice that you refuse to see the big picture. Couple guys don't like the new coach and a message board warrior knows more about the game of basketball than a veteran DI coach. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Your presence as a UD basketball fan would be best served by either giving it up, or simply letting some of this take course. You can pull up this thread when you get to eat crow in the future. Most of us can at least sit back and say we afforded AG, his staff, his players, and the UD administration a fair shot to do their thing prior to calling for a fire sale.
we can agree, we lost 4 meatballs and 1 probably decent player, but 5 players have quit on the coach, that means something, can we agree on that ?
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  #119  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
we can agree, we lost 4 meatballs and 1 probably decent player, but 5 players have quit on the coach, that means something, can we agree on that ?
I'm not going to make the argument but one could say this a continuation of issues AG had at Alabama
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  #120  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'm not going to make the argument but one could say this a continuation of issues AG had at Alabama
Or that AG had stated what was needed from players to get playing time and some didn't want to do it. If you want to play the speculation game because neither you nor I know the details.
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  #121  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Hopefully his national team duties don't interfere with the recruiting this spring
Indeed with this many spots open coach is going to have to put in some serious time closing the deal on any potential recruit.
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  #122  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'm not going to make the argument but one could say this a continuation of issues AG had at Alabama
Or one could make the argument that AG knows what it takes to take UD to the next level and stay there. He just basically wiped clean a whole recruiting class in one fell sweep instead of dragging it out over several years.

Faster he brings in his players the faster were go 4 for 4 again and run deep.

My suggestion to several of you is to take a hiatus for a couple years, check back and see where we stand, then either get back on the band wagon or brag about how you told us so.

Until then you'll never be satisfied with anything he does so chill enjoy life as AG is here for a few more years.
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  #123  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:45 PM
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while I don't think that Grant has a long arm of recruiting tentacle all by himself within the state of Ohio, I think that he has a number of old UD connections that have the right contacts in this state, in the greater region, to help him in the immediate future. To at-least land a couple of one or two gap fillers, until he has the opportunity to build up his own contacts around the region. So far, only Kostas bothers me in terms of immediate lost talent. The others were nor doing anything anyway.
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  #124  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Or one could make the argument that AG knows what it takes to take UD to the next level and stay there. He just basically wiped clean a whole recruiting class in one fell sweep instead of dragging it out over several years.

Faster he brings in his players the faster were go 4 for 4 again and run deep.


My suggestion to several of you is to take a hiatus for a couple years, check back and see where we stand, then either get back on the band wagon or brag about how you told us so.

Until then you'll never be satisfied with anything he does so chill enjoy life as AG is here for a few more years.
Which is why I applauded him several posts ago for doing it and said this was a good thing.

Can't win with you people
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  #125  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
You just can't satisfy some people . They want to upgrade, we don't have good players, then when players leave, it's all the coaches fault and if we had a good coach they would stay. I don't know how some of you live day to day. The glass is apparently empty no matter what happens.
...Or shattered...
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TXFlyerFan (03-22-2018)
  #126  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
If Kostas dropped out of school that's an APR hit. If Matej did the same thing we're starting to get the danger zone depending on what the other guys do
Archdeacon’s updated article indicates that Matej worked out an academic plan to finish the year while Kostas did not. If the other guys want to transfer, they have to be in good academic standing, so we should be okay with just Kostas leaving school early.
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  #127  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
When 4 players have attitude problems and 5 decide it's best not to return, it's most likely the coach.

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  #128  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Archdeacon’s updated article indicates that Matej worked out an academic plan to finish the year while Kostas did not. If the other guys want to transfer, they have to be in good academic standing, so we should be okay with just Kostas leaving school early.
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Good news, all credit to Matej for finishing the year academic and treating the university with respect. He deserves props for that, very easy for him to hop on the next flight out of town
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  #129  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'm not going to make the argument but one could say this a continuation of issues AG had at Alabama
I choose to make the argument that AG is a different coach than he was at Alabama or VCU. Different because the situation is different. This is HIS alma mater, where he was a very good, MVP, player. I heard it at his opening presser and several times since. He's double and tripled down on the attention and effort he is going to put into this program, to include getting the right players to play what will be "the Dayton way."
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  #130  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
we can agree, we lost 4 meatballs and 1 probably decent player, but 5 players have quit on the coach, that means something, can we agree on that ?
This is where you are mistaken.

XW had reported conflict with AG along with Pierce.

From all inside accounts this is more with XW and Pierce than AG...Trey's interview proves what the insiders reported. Pierce walked out of practices. That tells me all I need to know.

Crosby came back to UD with AG's work. Crosby simply isn't a good enough basketball player and has played behind better players his whole career. He's behind Crutcher next year already.

Grant quoted in the paper that players that he didn't bring here simply aren't cut out for what he expects. Look at Trey...he embraced it...and it paid dividends. Why did it work for him...because his character allowed him to thrive. The others, they either didn't have it...or didn't want to ride the pine.

This isn't a coach thing. This is a player thing. Get with the program or get the F out. It is that simple. At this rate, AG did what he needed to do with good reason and just sped up the future potential of this program by one year. Dead weight is gone.

I fail to see how anyone that left gives you anything more next season than what a good freshman or transfer can give you. I would rather have a bench player with a good attitude, than a guy like Kostas regardless of potential. I wish it worked out with him as he showed flashes of brilliance...but attitude trumps performance if you are trying to run a team, a business, or anything successful that involves groups of people. AG knows that and it isn't a loss in the long run.
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  #131  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:37 PM
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“I tell guys this all the time when we are recruiting, ‘What we do is not for everybody,’” said Grant who took over the job vacated by Archie Miller last spring. “I tell them, ‘Here’s what we’re going to be about and here’s the way we’re going to do it.’ It doesn’t make you a bad person (to disagree.) It’s just we have to understand the commitment it takes, the sacrifice it takes to be able to accomplish the things we’re trying to accomplish ... without any guarantees.”

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...xLwAks1UtQiBL/
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T-Bone 84 (03-23-2018)
  #132  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:38 PM
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Cancers are gone, end of story. Glad it took only a year, Mikesell looks healthy, we landed two promising guards, and have a bit more of potential playing time for recruits to see....
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Jack D (03-23-2018)
  #133  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Which is why I applauded him several posts ago for doing it and said this was a good thing.

Can't win with you people
I know I don't, and I would guess most on this board would agree, have an issue with your comments OSU Flyer. You've said how you feel and tend to bring many different ideas and perspectives to most issues. We don't have to all agree but civility and cogent arguments instead of constant bashing is all I think most ask for. Keep bringing it OSU Flyer!
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  #134  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:47 PM
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Mercifully the Matej thread was closed...so I am going to put this here from the longer article by Archdeacon. Classy young man.

Grant praised Svoboda for the class he showed before his departure.

“Matej was awesome,” Grant said. “He came in and he was really concerned we’d be upset with him for leaving. What he got from everybody here is that we want what’s best for him. He was very realistic about what he had done here and said if some other guys had done their job, he might not have played as much. He said, ‘I don’t want to hurt you guys. I’m very appreciative for what you’ve done for me and I think I got better.’

“He’s going to be 22 and there is only a small window for him to go and make money. And he can do it back home where he’s had success before. He told us he’d worked out a plan where he’ll be able to finish what he needs to academically. He really thought about this. He came in and saw everybody. Said thank you, gave hugs and goodbyes. He said, ‘I appreciate it and I’ll stay in touch.’”
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  #135  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
My son is friends with Joey Gruden and he was told a few weeks ago that KA hated going to school and was probably going to leave. I posted this in PP about 2 weeks ago and unfortunately it was true. If he liked going to school and wanted to transfer then why did he drop his classes and take off?
It will be interesting to see how this young man finds life in the real world. We all witnessed his antics on the court early in the season. “Mature” is not exactly how I would describe his on-court demeanor. It got much better at the end of the season and it appeared to me the coaching staff sent a message and KA finally did conform.

Now it appears he doesn’t like going to class so he withdraws from UD. I find that very sad because we all know he is not ready for the NBA or even the G League. I see this attitude from a lot of 20 year olds these days. They feel entitled to own the goose that lays golden eggs but they have no intention of working hard or making sacrifices to build a life or following a dream. I hope I’m wrong, but this young man appears headed towards major disappointments in the years to come.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Mercifully the Matej thread was closed...so I am going to put this here from the longer article by Archdeacon. Classy young man.

Grant praised Svoboda for the class he showed before his departure.

“Matej was awesome,” Grant said. “He came in and he was really concerned we’d be upset with him for leaving. What he got from everybody here is that we want what’s best for him. He was very realistic about what he had done here and said if some other guys had done their job, he might not have played as much. He said, ‘I don’t want to hurt you guys. I’m very appreciative for what you’ve done for me and I think I got better.’

“He’s going to be 22 and there is only a small window for him to go and make money. And he can do it back home where he’s had success before. He told us he’d worked out a plan where he’ll be able to finish what he needs to academically. He really thought about this. He came in and saw everybody. Said thank you, gave hugs and goodbyes. He said, ‘I appreciate it and I’ll stay in touch.’”
As stated in that thread...you can't hate on a guy for making that decision. It's his live and his family's well being.
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  #137  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
And I'll add...what if he were convinced to stay and because he hated school, decided to do the "Kentucky" version of study and was declared ineligible next year?
The "Kentucky" version? Really?

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...mics-ruled-day
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  #138  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:07 PM
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I'm surprised that some act like the sky is falling with today's news.

I honestly think AG is rubbing his hands together and loving the position he's in now vs. when the season ended.

I don't feel a need to "pick a side" on whether or not AG is the best thing since sliced bread or how many wins this team will have next year. My excitement over next year's team is up with this mass exodus, not down.
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  #139  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
My son is friends with Joey Gruden and he was told a few weeks ago that KA hated going to school and was probably going to leave. I posted this in PP about 2 weeks ago and unfortunately it was true. If he liked going to school and wanted to transfer then why did he drop his classes and take off?
I heard something similar - He had a hard time comprehending the material, kept saying "this is all Greek to me!" Come on, you know that's funny.


Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Makes 6 if you're including DD. Crosby, Pierce, Svoboda, XW, Kostas and Baby D.
7! You forgot Joey Gruden.
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  #140  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Which is why I applauded him several posts ago for doing it and said this was a good thing.

Can't win with you people
I know I don't, and I would guess most on this board would agree, have an issue with your comments OSU Flyer. You've said how you feel and tend to bring many different ideas and perspectives to most issues. We don't have to all agree but civility and cogent arguments instead of constant bashing is all I think most ask for. Keep bringing it OSU Flyer!
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Figures you would blame AG.

For the sake of discussion and not a retread AG bashing thread...many of these you have stated this entire season.

Svoboda...non-factor pretty much the entire season. Didn't give much to forecast future upside other than a warm body. His departure is a wash as a freshman next year can come in and do the same freshman stuff he did this year. Best of luck to him and his family.

XW....non-factor the entire season. His family wanted him to depart prior to Christmas. He wanted to stay. He didn't jive with the new way of doing things the AG way, which has to do with accountability. He gave up on the team mid way through the season and failed to even travel or show up for the end of the season. His departure is a positive as he didn't even provide anything positive off the court. MS at least was a hard worker and not a distraction to the team.

Pierce. Dueces. Panic move by Archie. Did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

Crosby...non-factor. Was back here because he felt it was a better option than transferring. While he didn't do anything detrimental to the team, he was a bit in over his head in terms of who he was going up against and his situation with PT. His departure is a wash as proven with Crutcher as an incoming freshman. Best of luck to JC.

Kostas...bummer as he has a promising future. Who cares if he was the "recruit of all recruits" and the "one" as a handful of people assume. He didn't play for a reason. He didn't like school, doesn't need school, and has one goal...become pro. He does't need UD to get to that level as he has a slush fund to get the best training and the best resources. He can spend 40 hours a week on hoops versus 20 hours a week in classes. I liked his promise. Yes...he is a loss but replaceable.

In all of this, guys have left that you, and many others, have stated time and time again are not "positives" on the roster. So...you got your way in terms of personnel. Correct?

Do you have any knowledge of the incoming freshman or possible transfers? Are they better or worse than the 4 washes that are out the door? Do you keep the guys that aren't contributing to squeeze blood out of a turnip or simply have a fire sale and get guys that buy in and have time to develop?

The good thing is that there are many people who know much more about the situation that you. Many insiders have valuable information if you would pay attention. You are blinded by your own voice that you refuse to see the big picture. Couple guys don't like the new coach and a message board warrior knows more about the game of basketball than a veteran DI coach. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Your presence as a UD basketball fan would be best served by either giving it up, or simply letting some of this take course. You can pull up this thread when you get to eat crow in the future. Most of us can at least sit back and say we afforded AG, his staff, his players, and the UD administration a fair shot to do their thing prior to calling for a fire sale.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:35 PM
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What did Jimmy Binnie say about Trent Meachum transferring? Something like "If he doesn't want to be here then we don't want him here." He might as well have been talking about Kostas.

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Old 03-22-2018, 08:39 PM
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Exactly, we lost nothing. We lost the bench of a terrible team is all. Kostas might be the only exception, but only for his potential, he basically stunk this year, and his punk attitude on the court was embarrassing.

We were going to stink again next year, baring some great grad transfers. This gives AG the runway to rebuild. Overall I'm pleased and ready for the future rather than 2018, 2.0!
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:40 PM
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This where having Kane and Andy Farrell is going to pay off. Those guys have some experience on the juco circuit. Andy coached Terrell Miller at SW Mississippi who's played himself onto the NBA radar this year for Murray State

Kane was apart of Murray State staff that does a good job of bringing contributors from the JUCO ranks
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Or one could make the argument that AG knows what it takes to take UD to the next level and stay there. He just basically wiped clean a whole recruiting class in one fell sweep instead of dragging it out over several years.

Faster he brings in his players the faster were go 4 for 4 again and run deep.
I will say that this mass departure is a radical change from what happened at VCU and Alabama, so maybe Coach Grant has gained some different insight over time, and he is taking a different approach this time around. I hope that is the case, and that this is not some other sort of problem.


Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
My suggestion to several of you is to take a hiatus for a couple years, check back and see where we stand, then either get back on the band wagon or brag about how you told us so.

Until then you'll never be satisfied with anything he does so chill enjoy life as AG is here for a few more years.
That is probably some good advice...
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  #146  
Old 03-22-2018, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
This where having Kane and Andy Farrell is going to pay off. Those guys have some experience on the juco circuit. Andy coached Terrell Miller at SW Mississippi who's played himself onto the NBA radar this year for Murray State

Kane was apart of Murray State staff that does a good job of bringing contributors from the JUCO ranks
I could not agree more with this... Amen
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
while I don't think that Grant has a long arm of recruiting tentacle all by himself within the state of Ohio, I think that he has a number of old UD connections that have the right contacts in this state, in the greater region, to help him in the immediate future. To at-least land a couple of one or two gap fillers, until he has the opportunity to build up his own contacts around the region. So far, only Kostas bothers me in terms of immediate lost talent. The others were nor doing anything anyway.
I am not concerned with this state as much as I am him being able to get some grabs from the best JUCO's and the best AAU fields in the country. While Ohio has great basketball talent, we are much better suited as football recruiting country...plenty of good ballers in other metro areas which I think AG has a reach in.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:13 PM
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Count me as pleased. Fresh slate for AG. Mikesell,Davis,Landers and Josh the lone Arthur Mueller holdovers, all 4 are bought in. Now we got 5 schollies to fill. This can be a fun and interesting time. We've never got to experience this level of roster turnover. We find the right pieces we can be back to celebrating March.

I wonder if Detwon Rogers bone bruise has healed yet? Asking for a friend.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:15 PM
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JUCO recruiting is so boom or bust (Thiago Coredero) that it really pays to have people who know what to look for at that level. Projecting JUCO guys to D1 is a real skill and fortunately we've got some guys that have done it

Go back to the BG era and he passes on JUCO PG Tyrone Brazelton and that guy gets Western Kentucky into a Sweet 16 and a round of 32 the next year.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
we can agree, we lost 4 meatballs and 1 probably decent player, but 5 players have quit on the coach, that means something, can we agree on that ?
No. Do you find it at all odd that this is all happening at once, so quickly after end of season?

Have no inside info, but suspect most if not all of these players were told they might be better off moving on to a program where they will get to play. It wasn’t going to be at UD.

Best of luck to all of them.

It’s a good day to be a Flyer.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I will say that this mass departure is a radical change from what happened at VCU and Alabama, so maybe Coach Grant has gained some different insight over time, and he is taking a different approach this time around. I hope that is the case, and that this is not some other sort of problem.
IMO, it is a combination of things.

You had a couple guys that didn't jive with the new coach...XW and Pierce. Different sheriff in town.

You had the perfect storm with a guy that rolled the dice to come to the states to play (Svoboda) and a guy that wasn't where he needed to be to get PT early and turned this into a NCAA DI tryout with his only desire to go pro. Both will either be getting paid next year or on their way to getting paid.

Crosby...it is what it is. Talent surpassed his ceiling while he was here.

Not to mention...that if any of them were wavering...the sub .500 season simply sealed the deal.

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Old 03-22-2018, 09:31 PM
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
When 4 players have attitude problems and 5 decide it's best not to return, it's most likely the coach.
So your saying we would be better off if everyone stayed? What planet are you from? Hey you could transfer to some other team forum as I’m sure a lot of Priders would give you references.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
You just can't satisfy some people . They want to upgrade, we don't have good players, then when players leave, it's all the coaches fault and if we had a good coach they would stay. I don't know how some of you live day to day. The glass is apparently empty no matter what happens.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
Kostas was gone. Like Svoboda he doesn't need the degree. Go concentrate full time on basketball.

Kostas was not going to stay no matter who was coach, now he can play basketball and doesn't have to mess with school.
Like Cordell Jones, from Ohio State, said I didn’t come here to play School I came to play Football.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:05 PM
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Didn't see Figgee post concerning minutes played by each player leaving (the year prior {if here then] and this just past season).

As happened with Crosby under AM his minutes were not plentiful .... KA was hot or cold, XW ... back case or head case doesn't matter this late in the game (no pun here). We all seem to understand or know about JP ... what 4-6 minutes total! AN't working full time in a full time position ...


I know someone posted points scored but this could be misleading as maybe someone played 18 minutes in one in 3 games and scored 15 points ... something like that ...

How many minutes did these players contribute to the total team minutes?

If you didn't contribute who's missing ya? You were brought in on a full scholly and didn't contribute? Who's missin' ya?

The guy that brings in the donuts every Friday but you can't count on him any other time during the week .. he better not be making the same salary I am .....

In the real world I had a couple times that the boss in place (some cases company Pres) was replaced with someone new .. within a short period of time the old guard left over time (OR SUDDER was asked to leave) and the new guy brought in HIS GUY's. Sometimes I clung on till the end sometimes I said ADIOS. The clinging part never seemed quite so satisfactory in the end.

Better to fish then to cut bait ...

Hopefully both sides will be happier well except for Smit ...... OH you know who!
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:25 PM
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A couple things:

1. To the eyore crowd. I agree that it is concerning to have this level of defection but who is your concern regarding? Weren't you in favor of Crosby and the Czech (new sitcom title) leaving. If Kostas was willing to leave school early, I would question whether he had the academic interest to stay eligible. Pierce was always just a project; XW's ceiling is what... midlevel A10? If Cunningham goes f' it, I'm going to Europe... then my concern becomes real. Same if Crutcher requests a transfer or we start getting decommit requests. I don't consider myself part of the rose colored glasses group. I do think there is the potential that this portends a problem that will need to be addressed and that if something similar happens next year, action should be taken.

2. We are going to learn very quickly about AG's ability to recruit. If we see quality recruits and transfers, we will rebound quickly. If not, it will get ugly quickly. I am all in on getting a few grad transfers for the transition. I know some on the board have railed against the rule. I have always thought it was fair to a kid that fulfilled his academic requirements. So I am relieved that I don't have to change my mind. Because if I was against it before, I would be for it now
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:35 PM
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Up to 157 posts prior to this one.

We lost one scoring contributor, were brutal on defense, and finished 14-17.

So AG get's his guys in faster. Either AG's proponents or antagonists will get the answer they want sooner rather than later.

For me, I hope we get some guys that can play D.
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  #159  
Old 03-22-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
Crosby and the Czech (new sitcom title)
Best line of this whole thread!
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:08 PM
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I don't know how anyone can spin the loss of Kostas as a positive, given his impact near the end of the season and his potential. But if he wasn't interested enough in school and he has other options - not much could've been done.

For whatever reason, AG didn't get contributions from Xeyrius. Really a shame - he was a real contributor previously. But based on multiple reports, it sounds like he didn't buy into the new system, and as such we're better off without him.

Pierce wasn't going to contribute much this year anyway - he was a long-term project. If he didn't buy in, not much loss and better that he leaves now than later.

Svoboda and Crosby didn't pan out as players, unfortunately. Next year, they'd probably both be better than an average freshman recruit at Dayton, but if we replace them with an average grad transfer then already we're looking better even next year. If they are replaced by a transfer or a freshman, it'd take a couple years but we're still better off in the long run.

Would've been nice to keep Kostas, but all things considered we're better off without those 5 than with them - assuming even average Dayton-level recruits and transfers. If AG ends up recruiting at a higher level than we're used to, then even better.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:16 AM
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Rulechagrin has said it before but the spring signing class and the fall signing period for the 19 class this year is the most important thing right now.

I think what the staff does with with these next two classes probably determines where UD basketball goes the next 5-6 years and the fate of the AG era.

There's some great pieces going forward in Jordan Davis, Crutcher, Landers but we really need to build depth and especially get some help in the post. We're a bad break with Josh Cunningham away from losing the ability to get high % shots down low, a major loss in rebounding and I think having the offense collapse.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:40 AM
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Most of these transfers are no surprise to us fans so I'm absolutely certain that the staff expected some or all of these departures as well. I'm a little concerned though that we only have two commits (one is a juco who im sure wasnt a top priority). Grant must have known this was coming, I assume (I certainly hope) he has been trying to get commits to fill these slots but has had no luck so far. I'm no expert on recruiting but I find it somewhat concerning. If his plan was to dabble in the transfer market, I can understand. I just assume we're not looking at 3 transfers to round out the roster.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
we can agree, we lost 4 meatballs and 1 probably decent player, but 5 players have quit on the coach, that means something, can we agree on that ?
Different choice of words, but I contend that we lost 3 guys who hadn't showed much if anything at this level (JC, MS, JP) and 2 who had displayed some potential (XW, KA). And I agree that we had 5 players who quit the program, and that it means something. But I believe we differ on what it means.

Your previous posts indicate a belief somewhere along the lines of "Grant is an incompetent nincompoop, and should never have been hired." My previous posts indicate a belief somewhere along the lines of "Grant is a decent coach who needs to be given time to put players of his choosing into his system before we pass final judgment on his success or failure as UD's head coach."

Today's announcements simply accelerate the timeline for him to be able to put players of his choosing into his system, and thus for us to be able to pass final judgment on his success or failure as the head coach of my alma mater.

To the players who are leaving: I hope that you are able to have productive lives from this point forward, but if you didn't want to go to school at my alma mater, and/or play college basketball for my alma mater, then it's best that you're leaving now, so you can start the next phase of your life all the sooner.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:34 AM
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Actually it's easy to spin a positive for Kostas leaving, he didn't like school didn't want to be in school and even left before semester ended. He was taking a valuable ship that he didn't need or want that could go to someone who appreciates a college education and who really wants to be a flyer and who can contribute right away.

Even though Kostas improved toward seasons end it was obvious that with all the promo videos that he and his family had different plans for his future.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:46 AM
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The way I see it, the Band-Aid was ripped off of the festering sore. I prefer that to a slow very uncomfortable removal. Let the healing begin.......
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  #166  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:47 AM
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The guys who remain are the ones who buy into AG's vision of how the program is run and most importantly we have some leaders now I think Landers & Cunningham who set the tone for the newcomers about what the expectations are here

That's a victory right there for things going forward off of the court
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  #167  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:57 AM
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2017 Player. 2018 Results

Smith..... Graduated
Pollard..... Graduated
Davis..... Graduated
Cooke..... Graduated
Williams..... Head case/injury/personality clash
Mikesell..... Out with injury
D Davis..... Vastly improved
Miller..... Kicked out
Cunningham..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured
Landers..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured/inexperienced
Kostas..... Redshirt in 2017, mixed results in 2018
Crosby.....sucked in 2017, sucked in 2018

I don't see how anybody could look at that list and really have expected much from this year's team.

This year's five starters were guys that contributed between zero and backup roles with the 2017 team.

It's okay to not like the selection of AG as HC (I think you're wrong, but you're entitled o that opinion), but to use 2018 as evidence is ludicrous.
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  #168  
Old 03-23-2018, 08:07 AM
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OK

Originally Posted by sheg View Post
2017 Player. 2018 Results

Smith..... Graduated
Pollard..... Graduated
Davis..... Graduated
Cooke..... Graduated
Williams..... Head case/injury/personality clash
Mikesell..... Out with injury
D Davis..... Vastly improved
Miller..... Kicked out
Cunningham..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured
Landers..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured/inexperienced
Kostas..... Redshirt in 2017, mixed results in 2018
Crosby.....sucked in 2017, sucked in 2018

I don't see how anybody could look at that list and really have expected much from this year's team.

This year's five starters were guys that contributed between zero and backup roles with the 2017 team.

It's okay to not like the selection of AG as HC (I think you're wrong, but you're entitled o that opinion), but to use 2018 as evidence is ludicrous.
So what does the 2018-2019 list look like so far. Let's look ahead.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
2017 Player. 2018 Results

Smith..... Graduated
Pollard..... Graduated
Davis..... Graduated
Cooke..... Graduated
Williams..... Head case/injury/personality clash
Mikesell..... Out with injury
D Davis..... Vastly improved
Miller..... Kicked out
Cunningham..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured
Landers..... Vastly improved over 2017, was injured/inexperienced
Kostas..... Redshirt in 2017, mixed results in 2018
Crosby.....sucked in 2017, sucked in 2018

I don't see how anybody could look at that list and really have expected much from this year's team.

This year's five starters were guys that contributed between zero and backup roles with the 2017 team.

It's okay to not like the selection of AG as HC (I think you're wrong, but you're entitled o that opinion), but to use 2018 as evidence is ludicrous.
More than ludicrous. Would be absolutely impossible, imho, to have won even 17 games with this team with ANYBODY else coaching them.Just having a returning, experienced PG would have gotten them 18 wins let alone a last-minute, lightly recruited freshman to rely on for almost 30 mpg who really had no clue what he was doing the first 10-12 games of the year....

Asking Baby D to do even close to what he accomplished accomplished after being the non-confident whipping boy the past couple seasons was amazing. Folks, all of a sudden Baby D was not going to become this great defender, great finisher, or even remotely a good ball-handler...

They got absolutely ZERO, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG from a 4 man junior class that Archie recruited and that is a total recipe for disaster when relying on 4-5 freshman and pretty much a newcomer in Cunningham who has to rely on others to get him the ball....

Last edited by steve; 03-23-2018 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
More than ludicrous. Would be absolutely impossible, imho, to have won even 17 games with this team with ANYBODY else coaching them.Just having a returning, experienced PG would have gotten them 18 wins let alone a last-minute, lightly recruited freshman to rely on for almost 30 mpg who really had no clue what he was doing the first 10-12 games of the year....

Asking Baby D to do even close to what he accomplished accomplished after being the non-confident whipping boy the past couple seasons was amazing. Folks, all of a sudden Baby D was not going to become this great defender, great finisher, or even remotely a good ball-handler...

They got absolutely ZERO, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG from a 4 man junior class that Archie recruited and that is a total recipe for disaster when relying on 4-5 freshman and pretty much a newcomer in Cunningham who has to rely on others to get him the ball....
The junior class was indeed a disaster this year. I am hoping Ryan Mikesell can come back strongly next year. John Crosby is talented but makes horrible decisions with the ball in his hands - a critical failure for a point guard. X was a complete failure in his junior year after such a good sophomore year. Actually, I am happy that all five of the players have decided to move on. The only one who had the potential to start next year was Kostas, and he just didn't want to be in school. I am looking forward to a hoard of new players next year who buy into Anthony's ideas of work and accountability.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:32 AM
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I actually have a great deal more respect for AG as a coach after this. It's a pretty clear you're in or out situation & he didn't ***** foot around with it. Fortune favors the bold

In prior regimes before Archie I feel like a guy like Crosby would have just been kept around and allowed to graduate even if the expectation was that he was going to play a 100 minutes or less all year.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
The junior class was indeed a disaster this year. I am hoping Ryan Mikesell can come back strongly next year. John Crosby is talented but makes horrible decisions with the ball in his hands - a critical failure for a point guard. X was a complete failure in his junior year after such a good sophomore year. Actually, I am happy that all five of the players have decided to move on. The only one who had the potential to start next year was Kostas, and he just didn't want to be in school. I am looking forward to a hoard of new players next year who buy into Anthony's ideas of work and accountability.
Totally agree. I was not even enamored with X overall even a year ago. Yes, he hit some very big shots but he was very soft in the post and terrible defensively outside of coming over from the weak side at times to block some shots. I was hoping he'd improve but obviously the back issue early on (if that was really even the case) forced him to miss 5-6 games and then from there on out it went downhill.

Missing Mikesell was huge......I thought he could have been that guy they ran alot of offense thru ( a very good passer) and the guy that flashed in the paint against zone defenses.......Add in a new coach/coaching staff with a new system and it's really amazing that people expected much more...I think it's all perception vs. reality...People don't get emotional talking about player A or player B making mistakes before they make them (as in off season discussion) but seeing them make them during real games they lose all sense of rationality....

Last edited by steve; 03-23-2018 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:49 AM
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Any Honest Flyer Fan

would admit the program is in shambles right now. AG and staff have their work cut out for them. But the good news for Flyer fanatics is that the blood letting may be over and a true AG team may appear for the first time next year. That would be a team that can play defense and wants to. Balance the classes, graduate the players in 4 years and aspire to play for championships at the college level. Dreams of the NBA should be on the back burner for true Flyer players. To expect next year's edition of the Flyer to finish higher than 11th in the A-10 is unrealistic. All Flyer fans should remember the Number 1 commandment for excellence in customer service. "Under promise and over deliver."
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
A couple things:

1. To the eyore crowd. I agree that it is concerning to have this level of defection but who is your concern regarding? Weren't you in favor of Crosby and the Czech (new sitcom title) leaving. If Kostas was willing to leave school early, I would question whether he had the academic interest to stay eligible. Pierce was always just a project; XW's ceiling is what... midlevel A10? If Cunningham goes f' it, I'm going to Europe... then my concern becomes real. Same if Crutcher requests a transfer or we start getting decommit requests. I don't consider myself part of the rose colored glasses group. I do think there is the potential that this portends a problem that will need to be addressed and that if something similar happens next year, action should be taken.

2. We are going to learn very quickly about AG's ability to recruit. If we see quality recruits and transfers, we will rebound quickly. If not, it will get ugly quickly. I am all in on getting a few grad transfers for the transition. I know some on the board have railed against the rule. I have always thought it was fair to a kid that fulfilled his academic requirements. So I am relieved that I don't have to change my mind. Because if I was against it before, I would be for it now
I think we don't have to deal with Cunningham or Crutcher in that scenario due to the fact it appears they have buy in. Crutcher has an unlimited ceiling here and I think he turns out to be even better than Scooch. Cunningham isn't going anywhere. Davis, Trey, Mikesell, Obi...they are all buy in guys and are buying what AG is selling. That was evident by simply watching them on the floor or the body language on the bench.

I understand that people are wigging out over the departures. On social media yesterday, someone who claims their fandom stated "No one wants to play for this coach". That couldn't have been any more misinformed as to the reality with each of these individual players. Grant isn't the reason for these players leaving. Had the players done what was asked, they would still be here. Even if AG gave them the final push in the back...so what? His career is on the line as well as income and success. If players are getting in the way of that, he owes them nothing. He now sets the expectations with his guys and they know coming in what they are in for. I am not saying there won't be future conflict, as there is with every program, but we can now state...This is CAG's team and it is on his shoulders now. This is what the detractors want...to put him on the carpet to determine his worth as a coach. Now you get it. This is his rodeo now and he is in control of the personnel he desires to carry out his mission.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I actually have a great deal more respect for AG as a coach after this. It's a pretty clear you're in or out situation & he didn't ***** foot around with it. Fortune favors the bold

In prior regimes before Archie I feel like a guy like Crosby would have just been kept around and allowed to graduate even if the expectation was that he was going to play a 100 minutes or less all year.
Assuming Crosby wasn’t a troublemaker, I wouldn’t have had a problem with him sticking around for his senior year. I doubt every scholarship is going to be filled next year. He would be a walkon more or less. I would suspect he is the one that chose not to stick around.
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  #176  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
The junior class was indeed a disaster this year. I am hoping Ryan Mikesell can come back strongly next year. John Crosby is talented but makes horrible decisions with the ball in his hands - a critical failure for a point guard. X was a complete failure in his junior year after such a good sophomore year. Actually, I am happy that all five of the players have decided to move on. The only one who had the potential to start next year was Kostas, and he just didn't want to be in school. I am looking forward to a hoard of new players next year who buy into Anthony's ideas of work and accountability.
Yes, for a class that even had a slogan (remember “2K19”?), that class had 1 mildly pleasant surprise (Mikesell) and 3 washouts with major issues. Miller? Immature. Williams? Attitude. Crosby? Court sense. I wish all 4 of them well, but talk about dysfunction!

A number of people have been talking about what a great recruiter Grant is. I hope so, but my greater hope is that he recruits guys who not only have some talent, but are willing to buy into his system, and work hard to get the program back to being a consistent NCAA contender.

For all the success Miller had as a recruiter earlier in his time here (Sanford, Sibert, the 3 Amigos who graduated last year as 4-year players), his last 3 classes were like Adam Dunn at the plate, where you were most likely to see any of the following (but not much else):
-Home Run (Cunningham)
-Strikeout (Pierce)
-Base on Balls (Baby D)

At this point, I’d like to see some more singles, doubles, and the occasional triple. For where our program is, has been, and can be again, we need more base hits (with an occasional long ball).
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:23 AM
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That's the issue with recruiting high school kids at the A10 level. We're not getting can't miss guys out of high no matter who the coach is. When the vast, vast majority of your recruits are 3 star guys outside the top 100 it's a crap shoot

That's why transfers are so important because they played against division 2 competition and you've got some idea of what you're getting
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Assuming Crosby wasn’t a troublemaker, I wouldn’t have had a problem with him sticking around for his senior year. I doubt every scholarship is going to be filled next year. He would be a walkon more or less. I would suspect he is the one that chose not to stick around.
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Absolutely and plenty of coaches would have kept him around if there were no issues other than him not being a real good player in games that can be trusted..For all we know, I'm betting that AG told him at least 2 other guards will have to get 3 fouls in the first half before he sees the floor next year and Crosby really wants to see minutes for someone..
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Assuming Crosby wasn’t a troublemaker, I wouldn’t have had a problem with him sticking around for his senior year. I doubt every scholarship is going to be filled next year. He would be a walkon more or less. I would suspect he is the one that chose not to stick around.
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I beleve you are correct. In yesterday's article:
“John was in a tough situation,” Grant said, “but I saw him cheer on his teammates and every day in practice he tried to do everything we asked and never showed his tail that he wasn’t getting to play like he hoped.

“He said, ‘I just want to go try to play somewhere.’ He loves Dayton and going to school here and his teammates.”
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  #180  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:28 AM
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I never knew what kind of a read to get in Crosby. After one of the games he didn't play and Westerfield logged minutes in the DDN Grant said something to the effect of practice hard and do what's asked of you on defense. I read that as a shot at Crosby but maybe not
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
would admit the program is in shambles right now. AG and staff have their work cut out for them. But the good news for Flyer fanatics is that the blood letting may be over and a true AG team may appear for the first time next year. That would be a team that can play defense and wants to. Balance the classes, graduate the players in 4 years and aspire to play for championships at the college level. Dreams of the NBA should be on the back burner for true Flyer players. To expect next year's edition of the Flyer to finish higher than 11th in the A-10 is unrealistic. All Flyer fans should remember the Number 1 commandment for excellence in customer service. "Under promise and over deliver."
I don’t know how you can say this as we return 4 of our 5 starters and add Mikesell and Toppin just for starters. We will finish higher than we did this year in the conference.
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  #182  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Assuming Crosby wasn’t a troublemaker, I wouldn’t have had a problem with him sticking around for his senior year. I doubt every scholarship is going to be filled next year. He would be a walkon more or less. I would suspect he is the one that chose not to stick around.
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I think it could be close to having everyone filled depending how the transfer market goes
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think it could be close to having everyone filled depending how the transfer market goes
Does a transfer that is sitting a year count against the scholly limit?
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Does a transfer that is sitting a year count against the scholly limit?
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Yeah. Assuming they fit into the culture you're playing with house money on grad transfers. If we say find a promising freshman post/center/big what have you it's doable to find a guy like Rashad Anthony who grad transferred in St Louis from Seton Hall this last as a PF/C to eat some minutes as a bridge
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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It is inconceivable that we could be worse next year given what we return. Arguably we are returning 5 starters if you assume (like I do) that Mikesell would have been a starter this year if he were healthy.

Toppin, Matos, and Cohill are technically wild cards but Toppin has already been with the program for a year, Matos has juco experience and Cohill is about as highly touted out of HS as they come.

Toppin/Matos/Cohill/Mikesell >>>> Crosby/Svoboda/Pierce/Davis/Kostas/X
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  #186  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
It is inconceivable that we could be worse next year given what we return. Arguably we are returning 5 starters if you assume (like I do) that Mikesell would have been a starter this year if he were healthy.

Toppin, Matos, and Cohill are technically wild cards but Toppin has already been with the program for a year, Matos has juco experience and Cohill is about as highly touted out of HS as they come.

Toppin/Matos/Cohill/Mikesell >>>> Crosby/Svoboda/Pierce/Davis/Kostas/X
Yep. UD had ZERO bench last year, ZERO.Hard to find another team in the NCAA that got as little contribution in actual stats as UD did. Even if they do bring in another 2 good JUCO's/Grad transfers and another 1-2 freshman and both JUCOS/GT's happen to start and a couple of the guys who started last year don't start then the bench will be light years better just by pure numbers and who is sitting on it..

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Old 03-23-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
It is inconceivable that we could be worse next year given what we return. Arguably we are returning 5 starters if you assume (like I do) that Mikesell would have been a starter this year if he were healthy.

Toppin, Matos, and Cohill are technically wild cards but Toppin has already been with the program for a year, Matos has juco experience and Cohill is about as highly touted out of HS as they come.

Toppin/Matos/Cohill/Mikesell >>>> Crosby/Svoboda/Pierce/Davis/Kostas/X
I agree with most of this but if Mikesell had been healthy and was a starter it would have been at the expense of either Jordan Davis or Trey, so it would still really only be four returning starters.
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  #188  
Old 03-23-2018, 12:10 PM
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Since Kostas is leaving before the end of the school year, i am assuming that he had academic issues. He cut out of school before it became evident that his grades were going to be less than stellar.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I agree with most of this but if Mikesell had been healthy and was a starter it would have been at the expense of either Jordan Davis or Trey, so it would still really only be four returning starters.
Yes, but it sounded better the way I put it
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  #190  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:06 PM
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Five returning starters, just not all from last year.
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  #191  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:41 PM
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With five open scholarships, I think AG will get two transfers that will need to sit out. One to two grad transfers and one additional freshman. Best case scenario is a grad transfer point guard and grad transfer bulky down low guy. One of the two transfers is also a bulky down low guy and the freshman is a point guard. The other transfer is a guy like either Sibert or Charles Cooke who has mad skill but needs a developmental year.

I think AG is never going to use a rotation greater than 9 so better to either have a scholarship remain open or have one to two transfer kids so there are not too many pine riders which can provide its own problems.
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:53 PM
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Yes, on the surface to the casual fan this all looks bad, but in reality we are in a great position.

Great core group of starters returning, get Mikesell back healthy, and add Topin to the mix. From all accounts our two recruits so far appear to be in position to step in and help next season.

Those who do not want to put forth the effort are gone. AG can continue the rebuild with his guys much quicker than waiting on recruits from the previous coach to graduate.

The future is bright! Go Flyers
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  #193  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
At this point, any bar will do.
Preferably, one that sells craft beer...
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  #194  
Old 03-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Does a transfer that is sitting a year count against the scholly limit?
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I think so. Otherwise, teams could stockpile transfers and conceivably have 15-16 players on scholarship, with only the active players counting toward the limit (it'd be sort of like "practice squad" guys in the NFL).
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
would admit the program is in shambles right now. AG and staff have their work cut out for them. But the good news for Flyer fanatics is that the blood letting may be over and a true AG team may appear for the first time next year. That would be a team that can play defense and wants to. Balance the classes, graduate the players in 4 years and aspire to play for championships at the college level. Dreams of the NBA should be on the back burner for true Flyer players. To expect next year's edition of the Flyer to finish higher than 11th in the A-10 is unrealistic. All Flyer fans should remember the Number 1 commandment for excellence in customer service. "Under promise and over deliver."
Not to be contentious, but I think you're overemphasizing the importance of the players who've left. As others have stated, every player who made any sort of tangible contribution to what success we did have last year is returning, with only 2 exceptions: Baby D and Kostas. So, we need to find a wing player to replace Baby D? Bring Mikesell back from injury, and add Matos - done. We need to find a post player to fill the minutes played by Kostas? Enter Toppin - done.

Does that mean we are where we want or need to be? No. But I think a returning nucleus of Cunningham, Landers, Davis, and Crutcher, with a now-healthy Mikesell, a now-eligible Toppin, a capable freshman named Cohill, and a transfer named Matos is pretty sound to compete in next year's A-10. But we can definitely use more depth at PG and more beef on the front line.

Will we be in the Top 4, and get a double-bye in the conference tourney? Probably not. But I don't think we'll be in the bottom 4 and have to win "5 in 5" to get an NCAA bid, either. I'm thinking middle of the pack or slightly above (5th-8th) is a reasonable expectation for next year, based on what we know now about team composition, coaching situations at other schools, etc. And I hope our Flyers can "over-deliver" on that moderate expectation.
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:22 PM
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Rather than focus specifically on what positions we need, here's what we really need to be more successful next yar

1. Better defense
2. Fewer turnovers
3 Better rebounding
4. Increased team speed

Whatever players we need in order fill those needs, especially 1 and 2, will go a long way towards defining the season.

BTW, did anyone notice how strong KSU was on rebounds? Seems like there guys went up strong and snatched the ball with authority. Great positioning and strength + desire.
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  #197  
Old 03-23-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
It is inconceivable that we could be worse next year given what we return. Arguably we are returning 5 starters if you assume (like I do) that Mikesell would have been a starter this year if he were healthy.

Toppin, Matos, and Cohill are technically wild cards but Toppin has already been with the program for a year, Matos has juco experience and Cohill is about as highly touted out of HS as they come.

Toppin/Matos/Cohill/Mikesell >>>> Crosby/Svoboda/Pierce/Davis/Kostas/X
What you posted is what people need to look at...

Take Cohill and Matos off the list...Mikesell and Toppin have the same chance to produce the same if not more than the entire list of departures sans DD.

Crutcher and Davis end up with a summer on campus. That is where the improvement and strength comes in. No reason to believe that both of them don't produce more than last season. Trey and Cunningham will continue to do Trey and Cunningham.

Sure, people can try and argue that the upside to Kostas may be a loss...but nothing indicated that he wasn't leaving at a moments notice anyway.

I would rather take the totality of the entire team versus the potential upside of one player. I honestly think we are in good shape...and this isn't to defend AG in any way at all...this is simply in terms of the production by the players that left and what has the potential of walking through the door.
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  #198  
Old 03-23-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
Here's a tweet from Jablonski to put it in perspective:

"With Darrell Davis and Joey Gruden leaving, plus Kostas, X, Crosby and Pierce, Dayton loses 888 of 2,244 points (39.7 percent). Darrell accounted for 477 of those points. Last year, losing 4 seniors, plus Miller and Mikesell, UD lost 1,807 of 2,428 points (74.4)."
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That means we have over twice the production returning in 2018 than we did in 2017 (60.3% vs. 25.6%). Fewer holes to plug, with 4 returning starters instead of 1. More known commodities, with players like Crutcher as a Sophomore (vs. Crosby as a Junior last fall) and Landers as a Junior (vs. "Who in the world is going to take over for Cooke?" last fall). I'm cautiously optimistic about our prospects for next year.

"Cautiously", not "Wildly".
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
...he can stay in the states and live off his brother with all the access he needs.
You're making a big assumption that his brother would let him do this.

Would you let your brother, who just quit school and has no job, come live with you on your dime?

Thoughts anyone?
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Hopefully his national team duties don't interfere with the recruiting this spring
I was thinking the same thing...
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