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  #1  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:06 PM
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Year Six folks ! Why is AG still the head coach

This is becoming embarrassing, first 2 years not his guys, next 2 years Covid, last year all freshman, this year injuries, excuses have to stop folks PLEASE
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:24 PM
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But did anyone bet on the game?
  #3  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
But did anyone bet on the game?
You just brought up a great point. This is genius by AG. He wants the new Ohio gamblers to become accustomed to Dayton not covering the spread (or winning if you take them straight up) and quickly teaching them how to lose their money with grace.

I mean if this team, with probably a lot of key players ready to move on after the season, still have to learn how to win, shouldn't he have the same patience with the more inexperienced Ohio gamblers?

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  #4  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
This is becoming embarrassing, first 2 years not his guys, next 2 years Covid, last year all freshman, this year injuries, excuses have to stop folks PLEASE
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If you can find someone better than a national coach of the year who wants the job I’ll pay half their salary.

PM me when you do.
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
If you can find someone better than a national coach of the year who wants the job I’ll pay half their salary.

PM me when you do.
So are you saying AG is not replaceable or that UD will never have a better coach than AG?
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2023, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
If you can find someone better than a national coach of the year who wants the job I’ll pay half their salary.

PM me when you do.
Phil Martelli
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:27 PM
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Knew this clown would start a new thread today.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:32 PM
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Disappointing game but this season is three days In Brooklyn
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Disappointing game but this season is three days In Brooklyn
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Agree; at this point in the season, hopefully Mail and Kobe stay injury free and the team re-assimilates their games and everyone starts clicking. This year, it's going to be how they finish that determines everything. But one thing is for certain; no matter what happens, Anthony Grant will be the coach next year unless he resigns and I don't see that happening.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Disappointing game but this season is three days In Brooklyn
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3 chances for one A10 coach to shutdown DaRon and our 3 point shooting. Yeah, I doubt this team has what it takes to do it.
  #11  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:40 PM
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and we will hopefully be smarter, stronger, and more in sync by then.
It’s been a tough year. . . But the talent is there.
Btw - Missed a ton of threes today that we often make
  #12  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Knew this clown would start a new thread today.
From here on, you might as well count on this reaction when they lose a game. CAG shot the ball poorly today and his defense was questionable. They can throw tantrums all they want, but CAG is not getting fired and replaced by Phil Martelli.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
From here on, you might as well count on this reaction when they lose a game. CAG shot the ball poorly today and his defense was questionable. They can throw tantrums all they want, but CAG is not getting fired and replaced by Phil Martelli.
Is Coach Grant responsible for anything with this program?
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer69ers View Post
and we will hopefully be smarter, stronger, and more in sync by then.
It’s been a tough year. . . But the talent is there.
Btw - Missed a ton of threes today that we often make
Thank you !!!!!! For proving my point, your exact words the talent is there, so what is lacking ? Coaching
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Is Coach Grant responsible for anything with this program?
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They didn’t shoot the ball well today and lost. I guess, as a coach, he should have forced them to make more baskets which makes him responsible.
  #16  
Old 01-21-2023, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
They didn’t shoot the ball well today and lost. I guess, as a coach, he should have forced them to make more baskets which makes him responsible.
You can’t be serious with that response? So every time we lose it’s the players fault because they did not shoot well ?
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
You can’t be serious with that response? So every time we lose it’s the players fault because they did not shoot well ?
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Can you read? That’s why they lost TODAY! Are you really this stupid?
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2023, 08:32 PM
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If my employees have marginal results for 6 years sans 1, no matter how good of a guy I am, I'm looking for work.
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2023, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
If my employees have marginal results for 6 years sans 1, no matter how good of a guy I am, I'm looking for work.
True. However if it was put up to a vote on a message board with a bunch of old geezers who knew you 35 years ago and still carry a man crush, you would probably still have your job. Especially if you won Employee of the Month anytime within those 35 years.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2023, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
True. However if it was put up to a vote on a message board with a bunch of old geezers who knew you 35 years ago and still carry a man crush, you would probably still have your job. Especially if you won Employee of the Month anytime within those 35 years.
That's part of it. The money isn't happy with the recent results regardless of what this message board says. The expectation is to win and make NCAA Ts. This ain't it.

I'll say it louder for those in the back. No Obi Toppin, Grant isn't here this season.
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2023, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
That's part of it. The money isn't happy with the recent results regardless of what this message board says. The expectation is to win and make NCAA Ts. This ain't it.

I'll say it louder for those in the back. No Obi Toppin, Grant isn't here this season.
yep. Obi made Grant COY a heck of a lot more than Grant made Obi POY.
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2023, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
But did anyone bet on the game?
I don't but have a friend that does. He pointed out that in the final 1:09, 30 points were scored to push the game to "over" in points.
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:55 PM
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The players have to hit the shots. It sure sounded on radio that we had good looks.

My question around AG is adjustments - in game or in season. Early in the year, when we really had 6 guys, we were pressing - a lot. Now, as we get healthier, and are deeper, it's disappeared. The 1-3-1 has been effective at times, but now it's rarely used. Pushing the ball up seems to have been outlawed. Does EVERY possession have to involved De Ron banging down low?
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  #24  
Old 01-21-2023, 09:05 PM
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Watched the Chiefs today and the Bengals once or twice this season. Those are championship teams. They play to win. They overcome obstacles. Players make plays.

Right now UD doesnt have it. And its going on for a few years not just this year.

Obi and Crutcher made plays every game. Thats all there is to it. Its that simple.
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  #25  
Old 01-21-2023, 09:13 PM
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Can we stop referencing about UD has the fans and all the resources and blah blah blah blah blah and others do not.

Its not poster material opposing teams look at in the locker room.

Ask almost all the Philly schools how that plays into their mind when they manhandle us at their place in most years.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Knew this clown would start a new thread today.
Come on man, we lost to projected #178 today, you cannot expect people to just ignore that. The A10 is not that good. Grant is not getting paid the big bucks to bring home NIT appearances. This is year 6, unless we have a strong A10T, he will be 1 for 6, that isn't good enough.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Come on man, we lost to projected #178 today, you cannot expect people to just ignore that. The A10 is not that good. Grant is not getting paid the big bucks to bring home NIT appearances. This is year 6, unless we have a strong A10T, he will be 1 for 6, that isn't good enough.
Wow, you give up easy huh?
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
yep. Obi made Grant COY a heck of a lot more than Grant made Obi POY.
I really don't care who gets the credit. Give the whole team and the coach the credit. The bottom line IMO is that the program should be performing better, that is what I care about. We have top 25 attendance but not top 25 results.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Wow, you give up easy huh?
Are you being serious or just irrational? Give up ? This is year six ?
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2023, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Are you being serious or just irrational? Give up ? This is year six ?
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The season is not over yet; what don’t you understand about that? Even RI could go on a 5 game streak and win the A10.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
The season is not over yet; what don’t you understand about that? Even RI could go on a 5 game streak and win the A10.
Winning the A10 isn’t going to get either team an at large birth. Also, why are you so worried about AM winning or losing? He hasn’t coached here in 6 years
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:54 PM
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The red sweater brigade and their blind worship of CAG is almost as bad as those who are overly critical of CAG. The truth is somewhere in between, which is where 90% of this board resides IMHO.
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2023, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
The red sweater brigade and their blind worship of CAG is almost as bad as those who are overly critical of CAG. The truth is somewhere in between, which is where 90% of this board resides IMHO.
My question is where does that 90% stand if this season continues to trend the way its going?

I'm in that 90... I also expect more than what this program is providing.

About half of that 90 only cares about cold beers and glad handing at the arena. They don't care about the investment not matching results. They get more out of saying they are season ticket holders versus saying this is a NCAAT program.
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:22 PM
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Smile Things could be worse..

More embarrassing would be the Bonnies losing to Loyola by 12......
  #35  
Old 01-21-2023, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by VirgM View Post
More embarrassing would be the Bonnies losing to Loyola by 12......
The Bonnies weren't a preseason top 25 team and preseason pick to win the A10.
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
The Bonnies weren't a preseason top 25 team and preseason pick to win the A10.
And many of us laughed at those predictions because we know what we got and how it pans out.

People talk about A10 tourney. How has that worked out for us since it was last played at UD arena?
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
From here on, you might as well count on this reaction when they lose a game. CAG shot the ball poorly today and his defense was questionable. They can throw tantrums all they want, but CAG is not getting fired and replaced by Phil Martelli.
Yep. I've said it weekly and **** near every thread that this team is not and was not going to go 18 and 0 in the conference, yet, AG still needs to be fired after every loss. It's becoming comical. I said prior to the VCU game they have at least a couple losses in them and probably more.

Well, they have two losses already. They just have to keep plugging and work things out and try to get the rotations working. If you could tell me right now that they would go 14 and 4 without having to play another game then I would take that. They just have to be playing really good ball going into the a-10 tourney.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Yep. I've said it weekly and **** near every thread that this team is not and was not going to go 18 and 0 in the conference, yet, AG still needs to be fired after every loss. It's becoming comical. I said prior to the VCU game they have at least a couple losses in them and probably more.

Well, they have two losses already. They just have to keep plugging and work things out and try to get the rotations working. If you could tell me right now that they would go 14 and 4 without having to play another game then I would take that. They just have to be playing really good ball going into the a-10 tourney.
It's not that we lost, it is how we lost. It is one thing if we play a good game and come up short. It is different if we are just playing a superior team and don't have the firepower to win. We should not be down 90% of the game by double digits to GW. We should not lose a game at home when we were up 14 at half and up 4 with less than a minute to go. We should not be blowing double digits leads as much as we are.

Nobody expected this team to go 18-0 in conference play...Quit saying that or find the receipts. Every prediction I saw in the prediction thread predicted losses. Again...its not the loses, its how we lost. As far as AG goes, it is YEAR 6. This is what AG is, an underachiever. He was in his 6 years at Alabama, and he is in his 6 years here. Good guy, absolutely no doubt he isn't a good person, but underachiever.

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Old 01-22-2023, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
It's not that we lost, it is how we lost. It is one thing if we play a good game and come up short. It is different if we are just playing a superior team and don't have the firepower to win. We should not be down 90% of the game by double digits to GW. We should not lose a game at home when we were up 14 at half and up 4 with less than a minute to go. We should not be blowing double digits leads as much as we are.

Nobody expected this team to go 18-0 in conference play...Quit saying that or find the receipts. Every prediction I saw in the prediction thread predicted losses. Again...its not the loses, its how we lost. As far as AG goes, it is YEAR 6. This is what AG is, an underachiever. He was in his 6 years at Alabama, and he is in his 6 years here. Good guy, absolutely no doubt he isn't a good person, but underachiever.

Just what is considered a good loss ? You keep saying if we lost to better teams. Dayton is supposed to be the best team in this conference. It has not been a good conference thus far. They lost several games in the preseason to teams that continued to play very well yet you all were still complaining even with all the injuries this team had and Grant having to totally change the Dynamics of his offense

There are no good losses when you are favored to win a game by 7 or 8 points.There are shortcomings with this team as they are not a good perimeter team and they have had multiple injuries thus far. Tell me one way UD loses that game yesterday that you and the Lynch mob don't come on here and complain and possibly want Anthony Grant fired? If they turned the ball over 20 times you would be complaining about that. If they shot 50% from the free throw line you would be complaining about that. If they lost by a point yesterday but the opponent shot 50% from the three-point line you would be complaining about that.

In one respect you're talking about Anthony Grant is now in year 6 but in the other respect you're telling me that you also predicted losses in the A10 this season, correct? So what good losses would there be in the a-10 by the team that was predicted to win the conference? I'm sure you were complaining when they lost to VCU last week ,too, and they are the best team in the conference. So was that considered an acceptable and a good loss in your mind?

The Lynch mob is always going to complain when Dayton loses in the a-10 conference especially when they were a preseason pick and they're also going to complain if Dayton goes into a place and wins by a point because they didn't play well enough to win by multiple points.

The bottom line is UD is just one of a very few of pretty decent teams in the conference and that is it. Maybe these guys get together and Grant finds better rotations and they go on a nice win streak again but right now they are who they are.

I have my own grievances against Grant and this coaching staff. Yes, they should be in a better spot these past couple years. But I know what losing a couple of your starting guards can do to a team and having to change the entire Dynamics of your practices and gameplans can do and trying to get the exact same positive results.

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Old 01-22-2023, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Winning the A10 isn’t going to get either team an at large birth. Also, why are you so worried about AM winning or losing? He hasn’t coached here in 6 years
I’m not worried about an “at-large birth” for either team. Everyone in America knows the A10 is only getting the WINNER of the A10 tournament- i thought I made that relatively clear, apparently not. I’m not “worried” about AM winning or losing- just pointing out that even RI (one of the worst teams in the league) could win 5 STRAIGHT GAMES IN THE A10 TOURNAMENT- and still get a bid. It’s just coincidental that AM coaches RI- but you should now get the point. Would it make you less twitchy if I used LoC instead?
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Come on man, we lost to projected #178 today, you cannot expect people to just ignore that. The A10 is not that good. Grant is not getting paid the big bucks to bring home NIT appearances. This is year 6, unless we have a strong A10T, he will be 1 for 6, that isn't good enough.
He's right. And I like AG.
  1. Take you hands off the keyboard.
  2. With your left hand - hold out only your index finger.
  3. With your right hand - extend all five fingers.
  4. Look at your hands. Stare at them. Engrain that image in your mind.
  5. Left = years in NCAA
  6. Right = years not in NCAA
  7. What was the stated goal of the program?

If this staff & team don't make some adjustments, you now have something to remind you each and every day of what the results actually are.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
From here on, you might as well count on this reaction when they lose a game. CAG shot the ball poorly today and his defense was questionable.
AG hasn't stopped anyone or made a single shot all season. That goes for wins and losses, but somehow this profound thought only appears after a loss.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
AG hasn't stopped anyone or made a single shot all season. That goes for wins and losses, but somehow this profound thought only appears after a loss.
Really reaching aren’t you? Obviously, sarcasm is something you’re incapable of understanding.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
That's part of it. The money isn't happy with the recent results regardless of what this message board says. The expectation is to win and make NCAA Ts. This ain't it.

I'll say it louder for those in the back. No Obi Toppin, Grant isn't here this season.
But Obi and TEAM (Crutcher, Mikesell, Landers, etc..) were here. AG put that team together, they ran his offense, they played his defense. They weren’t projected as a preseason top 25 yet look what happened. You can the same thing about literally any other “special” player at any other school in history and say that player “made” that “coach” a COY. AG in the end made the decision to offer Obi- nobody else.

If your “investment” in UD isn’t worth the results, you gotta decision to make as a “paying fan”. You can give up your seats and spend the money differently and still be a fan, possibly richer depending on how you reallocate your “UD” funding or at least happier that your not wasting it on “underperformance”. OR you can continue to pay it. But one thing is for certain-you give up your seats and all the years it took to get you down to level you now have, somebody will gladly and eagerly snap them up and there are thousands like them just waiting for the opportunity to do so as well.

You want to blame it all on AG? Fine, but as much as you all believe he’s awful, there’s a reciprocal amount who believe exactly the opposite, but let’s be clear - winning several National COY awards the same year isn’t the same as being an “employee of the month”. It’s like being National employee of the year as a medical doctor, lawyer, engineer, teacher, etc recognized by several prestigious publications all in the same year - as “the best” that year in what you did. Basically any person who has a hand in making the decision on which coach did the best job in a particular year picked AG that year and a hell of a lot said AG was the best. Pretty high company AG is in. It includes legendary coaches like Bob Knight, Mark Few, Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon, Mike Krzyzewski, Bill Self, Rick Patino, Calipari, among others…and all those coaches also had “underperforming years”. This season isn’t over yet, but can you imagine what the players on this team think when they read the comments by some of you?

Whether you’re a paying fan or not, if you’re giving up on this team with at least 10 games to go in the regular season and already writing off the A10 tournament you are by definition a fair weather fan. Some on here I get, they hate AG no matter what the result is. And you can call me a “Red Sweater” all you want, I couldn’t care less. I may get p1ssed off when Dayton loses a game after big leads but at the end of the day, still love the Flyers and still believe in this team and former National COY Anthony Grant.

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Old 01-22-2023, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
Really reaching aren’t you? Obviously, sarcasm is something you’re incapable of understanding.
It's the go to phrase after every loss on here and has been for years. Easier to deflect on the players than give a critical look at the guy that coaches/recruits them.
  #46  
Old 01-22-2023, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
It's not that we lost, it is how we lost. It is one thing if we play a good game and come up short. It is different if we are just playing a superior team and don't have the firepower to win. We should not be down 90% of the game by double digits to GW.

Yea. I know. My beloved Giants played last nite and did an NFL FB version of the Flyers ......

No offense and no defense!

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  #47  
Old 01-22-2023, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
But Obi
But Obi may be a once in a generation player for a school like UD then again and I'll consider the possibility that DeRon will get to that status yet. (Not there yet however.)

We could also bring in someone that will in his second year be another Obi.

As they said in that movie : "So you're saying there's a chance!"

Sure there is for either DeRon or someone else.

But so far ...



Whether you’re a paying fan or not, if you’re giving up on this team with at least 10 games to go in the regular season and already writing off the A10 tournament you are by definition a fair weather fan. Some on here I get, they hate AG no matter what the result is. And you can call me a “Red Sweater” all you want, I couldn’t care less. I may get p1ssed off when Dayton loses a game after big leads but at the end of the day, still love the Flyers and still believe in this team and former National COY Anthony Grant.
Not sure everyone that espouses a view point that things look a little dim right now are totally writing off the Flyers however:

FACT: Opposing teams have a strategy to prevent the action in UD's game plan
FACT: UD's record in the A10T is shall we say very challenged in history (even when it looked like we had a really really good team going in)
FACT: With 11 games to play we are now waiting for the new version of the TEAM to jell
FACT: All that and we have VCU and St L yet to play

So I'm glad you have all the optimism. Meanwhile, some have all the pessimism. Some of us (including me) are waiting for proof the optimism is warranted.
  #48  
Old 01-22-2023, 11:55 AM
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Even the blowout loss to VT no longer looks like a good loss. VT is now 11-7, and a terrible 1-7 in the ACC.
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:48 PM
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This nba based offense likely isn't the best for this group of guys. I've seen it work well in maybe 2 games.

Ya gotta adjust to your personnel. Coaches need to adjust
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  #50  
Old 01-22-2023, 12:58 PM
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Alumni coaches don’t work out in a lot of places. Chris Mullin at St John’s and now Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. It’s pretty clear AG isn’t working out at UD either.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Alumni coaches don’t work out in a lot of places. Chris Mullin at St John’s and now Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. It’s pretty clear AG isn’t working out at UD either.
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Mullin wasn't bad, 4 years with 1 ncaat.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:16 PM
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US Grant on the $50 dollar bill.

NIT Grant running the most resourced program in the conference.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Alumni coaches don’t work out in a lot of places. Chris Mullin at St John’s and now Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. It’s pretty clear AG isn’t working out at UD either.
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I don't think it is as simple as: well, things are not working out, let's just part ways. UD may have given Grant a huge contract extension after year 3, UD may not be able to afford to fire him.

BG was under contract thru 2018, and he left in 2011. He still had 7 years left on his deal, that still surprises me.

We might be in a real pickle. I think Grant is here for at least two more years after this year regardless of our win/loss record.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:40 PM
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BG got an offer from GT. I heard that UD did not match it, so he took the GT job. Probably no buyout necessary since he left voluntarily.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
BG got an offer from GT. I heard that UD did not match it, so he took the GT job. Probably no buyout necessary since he left voluntarily.
Correct, but if Grant continues to struggle, and no other school makes him an offer, then we may be on the hook for the entirety of whatever deal we made with him. There may be no GT coming to our rescue this time.
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:18 PM
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So I'm getting from some that losing to GW is okay because it's inevitable that we're going to lose some games in the A10. Man, CAG has conditioned these fans well over the past 2 years. I don't remember the same sentiment when we lost to Fordham 2 years ago.
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
So I'm getting from some that losing to GW is okay because it's inevitable that we're going to lose some games in the A10. Man, CAG has conditioned these fans well over the past 2 years. I don't remember the same sentiment when we lost to Fordham 2 years ago.
unfortunately theres a handful of fans who were always going to defend AG no matter how poorly the program is/was. the obi year cemented that fact and they'll use that for the rest of his remaining days as coach.

the bottom line is it comes down to the AD, will sullivan have the cajones to get rid of AG? honestly i don't see it. main reason being, butts are still in seats. i believe even during wablers tenure the same thing with BG. i believe they outright said what we all knew forever, mens basketball drives the bus. it funds the other sports and brings in the donor dollars.

i think theres a quote out there from sullivan about his expectations for AG, i don't know the quote but have seen it thrown around about how AG isn't meeting them. do i think that matters no. sullivan hired the guy when no other colleges were calling him about a job, hes his guy. butts are in seats = money is coming in, AG is a well liked/respected alumn.

as long as that's all going on, no matter how mad/angry the general fan base is about the state of the program, AG likely sticks around until he chooses not to be.

we lucked out with BG imo, people were burnt out with him i believe and he was able to have an out by going to GT.

AG not so much, big schools aren't going to be calling for his services.
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
i think theres a quote out there from sullivan about his expectations for AG, i don't know the quote but have seen it thrown around about how AG isn't meeting them. do i think that matters no. sullivan hired the guy when no other colleges were calling him about a job, hes his guy. butts are in seats = money is coming in, AG is a well liked/respected alumn.
Sullivan firing the guy that he hired wouldn't be a good look for him, so I tend to agree that AG will get every opportunity from Neil. Feels like there would need to be a change at AD before there would a change at coach.
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:22 PM
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“ A: We have high expectations. Coach Grant has been absolutely exceptional to work with. I have a tremendous amount of confidence in him and the staff. We have a very experienced coaching staff. Really, nothing's changed in regard to our program expectations. We understand, and Coach understands the standards of excellence necessary to meet those expectations, which is to compete for conference championships and advance in the NCAA tournament. That's really our daily focus. ”

That’s the quote you’re thinking of. AG isn’t coming close
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Sullivan firing the guy that he hired wouldn't be a good look for him, so I tend to agree that AG will get every opportunity from Neil. Feels like there would need to be a change at AD before there would a change at coach.
There are ways to do it without it looking like an admission of failure on Sullivan's part. If the pressure from the big donors are enough, Sullivan can convey that to CAG who's actually at an age where he can retire comfortably anyway, and CAG probably would agree to a resignation rather than the embarrassment of a firing. There are a lot of moving parts and with NIL playing a big part in recruiting, it can be real easy for the money that allows AG to recruit DaRons to dry up and I doubt AG would be comfortable trying to navigate without those resources in this new college sports environment.
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Sullivan firing the guy that he hired wouldn't be a good look for him, so I tend to agree that AG will get every opportunity from Neil. Feels like there would need to be a change at AD before there would a change at coach.
With the hire of Tamika Williams and the season the women's team is having, Neil looks less and less like the wunderkind. (Williams obviously deserves more time, but not exactly an auspicious year one.)

They've really got themselves into a pickle with Grant. You hire him because he has the chance to be the long-term answer at a place where it's really difficult to find that. The flip-side is it's hard to part ways with one of your own.

Since the abysmal appearance in the Bahamas, any tournament chances were going to depend on winning the A10 tournament. My question though is what have we seen this season that makes anybody think UD can win three games in a row against good competition?
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:57 PM
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To an extent, I can let Neil off the hook a bit, if AG was given a huge contract extension after year 3 and if this doesn't work out, in that IMO these coaching contracts almost always favor the coach. The coach has all the leverage. Almost always, it is the school/boosters backing up the Brinks truck to the head coach's house and dumping a bunch of $ in his driveway if the coach is fired.

And these coaches can leave for another school on a whim.

The schools feel obligated to give out these huge contracts for fear of some other school poaching their coach and to keep their guy happy, which I can somewhat understand. It just feels like the schools end up getting burned by that much more often than not.

Had AG left after year 3, and it came out that AG felt like Neil had not made a good enough counteroffer to keep him, then everybody would have hated Neil for forever.

Very rarely do you see see a coach getting let go after only three or four years. The only examples I can think of:

Jamion Christian at GW got 3 years.
Todd Lickliter at Iowa got 3 years.
Billy G...Kentucky...2 years...there was never a signed contract iinm
David Cox...RI...4 years
Chris Mack...Louisville...4 years...he got paid a lot to leave.
Archie...Indiana...4 years...he got paid $10 mil to leave.
Jeff Bzdelik...Wake Forest...4 years

I'd like to see more balance in this. The schools rarely have any recourse if the coach fails to live up to expectations. The schools almost always get left holding the bag.

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Old 01-22-2023, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I’m not worried about an “at-large birth” for either team. Everyone in America knows the A10 is only getting the WINNER of the A10 tournament- i thought I made that relatively clear, apparently not. I’m not “worried” about AM winning or losing- just pointing out that even RI (one of the worst teams in the league) could win 5 STRAIGHT GAMES IN THE A10 TOURNAMENT- and still get a bid. It’s just coincidental that AM coaches RI- but you should now get the point. Would it make you less twitchy if I used LoC instead?
You bring up RI in every thread as if you care more about them than dayton
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:56 PM
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I will try to distill it from both sides (in no particular order) - let me know if I am missing anything

Red Sweater argument:

1. Grant took us to a top 5 team not long ago
2. He won coach of the year
3. He recruited Holmes, the highest rated UD recruit ever
4. He is a UD alum and all around good guy
5. Lot of injuries this year
6. Who else are we going to get to replace CAG if he leaves or is fired?

Lynch Mob argument:

1. Five years and only one NCAA appearance, this would be six if we do not make it
2. Best facility in the A10, best arena in the A10 best fans in the A10, and (I am guessing) the biggest basketball budget, and limited success
3. In game adjustments lacking, not playing to teams strengths.
4. Two players dismissed from team this year, one scholarship left open
5. Inability to close out games
6. Every team has injuries so no excuse.... bench is limited and no real plan for some players on scholarship (little development or recruiting misses)
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Old 01-22-2023, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
I will try to distill it from both sides (in no particular order) - let me know if I am missing anything

Red Sweater argument:

1. Grant took us to a top 5 team not long ago
2. He won coach of the year
3. He recruited Holmes, the highest rated UD recruit ever
4. He is a UD alum and all around good guy
5. Lot of injuries this year
6. Who else are we going to get to replace CAG if he leaves or is fired?

Lynch Mob argument:

1. Five years and only one NCAA appearance, this would be six if we do not make it
2. Best facility in the A10, best arena in the A10 best fans in the A10, and (I am guessing) the biggest basketball budget, and limited success
3. In game adjustments lacking, not playing to teams strengths.
4. Two players dismissed from team this year, one scholarship left open
5. Inability to close out games
6. Every team has injuries so no excuse.... bench is limited and no real plan for some players on scholarship (little development or recruiting misses)
Who got dismissed? Didn’t Baker and Washington enter the portal on their own?
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Old 01-22-2023, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
You bring up RI in every thread as if you care more about them than dayton
Maybe its a subconscious hate of AM? I’ll give you that as a possibility.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Maybe its a subconscious hate of AM? I’ll give you that as a possibility.
How can u hate or dislike a guy that took your favorite program to 4 NCAA appearances in 4 years ? That’s why when you type everyone laughs at you, you would rather have a coach with 1 NCAA appearance in 6 years, your thought process is totally incomprehensible
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
How can u hate or dislike a guy that took your favorite program to 4 NCAA appearances in 4 years ? That’s why when you type everyone laughs at you, you would rather have a coach with 1 NCAA appearance in 6 years, your thought process is totally incomprehensible
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Dude - everyone laughs at you! AM was a win at any cost type of coach- just like big brother Sean. I’ll take a coach that ultimately will build a better long term program than AM who only thinks of himself.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:12 PM
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Truly bizarre to “hate” a coach who went to 4 straight NCAAs including an elite 8. AG hasn’t come close to that in his career.

And sorry to say it but based on 15 years of head coaching, AG is not the guy that will build a long term successful program.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
How can u hate or dislike a guy that took your favorite program to 4 NCAA appearances in 4 years ? That’s why when you type everyone laughs at you, you would rather have a coach with 1 NCAA appearance in 6 years, your thought process is totally incomprehensible
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Truly bizarre to “hate” a coach who went to 4 straight NCAAs including an elite 8. AG hasn’t come close to that in his career.

And sorry to say it but based on 15 years of head coaching, AG is not the guy that will build a long term successful program.
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Donoher took us to an E8 and a Final- but plenty hated him…but that was ok huh? AG’s 19-20 team likely is a legit Final 4 team if not National Champion. As good as AM’s E8 team, nobody expected them to contend for Championship- was a cinderella run. Time will tell- but unless AG walks away from coaching- he’ll be here for quite a while so if you don't like him, don’t know what to say.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
But Obi and TEAM (Crutcher, Mikesell, Landers, etc..) were here. AG put that team together, they ran his offense, they played his defense. They weren’t projected as a preseason top 25 yet look what happened. You can the same thing about literally any other “special” player at any other school in history and say that player “made” that “coach” a COY. AG in the end made the decision to offer Obi- nobody else.

If your “investment” in UD isn’t worth the results, you gotta decision to make as a “paying fan”. You can give up your seats and spend the money differently and still be a fan, possibly richer depending on how you reallocate your “UD” funding or at least happier that your not wasting it on “underperformance”. OR you can continue to pay it. But one thing is for certain-you give up your seats and all the years it took to get you down to level you now have, somebody will gladly and eagerly snap them up and there are thousands like them just waiting for the opportunity to do so as well.

You want to blame it all on AG? Fine, but as much as you all believe he’s awful, there’s a reciprocal amount who believe exactly the opposite, but let’s be clear - winning several National COY awards the same year isn’t the same as being an “employee of the month”. It’s like being National employee of the year as a medical doctor, lawyer, engineer, teacher, etc recognized by several prestigious publications all in the same year - as “the best” that year in what you did. Basically any person who has a hand in making the decision on which coach did the best job in a particular year picked AG that year and a hell of a lot said AG was the best. Pretty high company AG is in. It includes legendary coaches like Bob Knight, Mark Few, Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon, Mike Krzyzewski, Bill Self, Rick Patino, Calipari, among others…and all those coaches also had “underperforming years”. This season isn’t over yet, but can you imagine what the players on this team think when they read the comments by some of you?

Whether you’re a paying fan or not, if you’re giving up on this team with at least 10 games to go in the regular season and already writing off the A10 tournament you are by definition a fair weather fan. Some on here I get, they hate AG no matter what the result is. And you can call me a “Red Sweater” all you want, I couldn’t care less. I may get p1ssed off when Dayton loses a game after big leads but at the end of the day, still love the Flyers and still believe in this team and former National COY Anthony Grant.
If we gave up we wouldn't be here. If we gave up 5 decades of season tickets they would have been gone during the JOB years.

The virtue signaling is big in this one.

The bottom line. AG is not meeting Neil Sullivan's STATED expectations. That in itself is simply what the majority of us are saying.

The big difference is those peer COY winners have a plethora of NCAA wins, Final Fours, and championships. UD doesn't. Bad comparison.

Don't want hurt feelings? Win on the road at GW and don't have one of the worst meltdowns on your home court in recent memory against VCU.

It is AGs job to figure out. Not Holmes, Mike, Smith, etc.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:22 PM
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Groundhog Day posts. BTW, Buffalo got their ass handed to them today at home. Fire Sean McDermitt
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
If we gave up we wouldn't be here. If we gave up 5 decades of season tickets they would have been gone during the JOB years.

The virtue signaling is big in this one.

The bottom line. AG is not meeting Neil Sullivan's STATED expectations. That in itself is simply what the majority of us are saying.

The big difference is those peer COY winners have a plethora of NCAA wins, Final Fours, and championships. UD doesn't. Bad comparison.

Don't want hurt feelings? Win on the road at GW and don't have one of the worst meltdowns on your home court in recent memory against VCU.

It is AGs job to figure out. Not Holmes, Mike, Smith, etc.
My feelings aren’t hurt- like I have mentioned many times before…my life doesn’t end if Dayton loses or doesn’t make the NCAA. Disappointed yes, life over- No. The season isn’t over yet, you all act like it is. That defines a fair weather fan- sorry if I hurt your feelings but that’s the truth.

And I add: UD has NEVER Won an NCAA- ever. AG is the ONLY UD coach to win a COY award(s). Quit acting like this is JOBv2, it’s not. If Neil decides a change needs to be made, so be it.

Add again: The fact that AG won National COY awards at “mid-major” Dayton makes the accomplishment even more impressive as that award is usually awarded to “Famous” coaches with “multiple championships”. Only AG, Martelli and Cooley from my memory stand out as winners from less famous schools

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  #74  
Old 01-22-2023, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Tme will tell- but unless AG walks away from coaching- he’ll be here for quite a while so if you don't like him, don’t know what to say.
Don't worry, IMO he will get plenty of time. IMO, things will be clear, one way or the other, once this has all played out. They aren't anywhere close to letting him go IMO.
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  #75  
Old 01-22-2023, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Don't worry, IMO he will get plenty of time. IMO, things will be clear, one way or the other, once this has all played out. They aren't anywhere close to letting him go IMO.
I agree- despite what others believe- he is in my opinion trying to build this program the right way. I don’t put a timetable on success like some some do. I’ve already seen a glimpse of what he will do- and it hasn’t been done (season long rankings) since Blackburn.
  #76  
Old 01-22-2023, 09:06 PM
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And they call me the fool, LMAO, this guy and I quote would rather have a coach that builds a program the right way which he had not done in 6 years than a guy who went 4 for 4 straight NCAA appearances, and I’m the FOOL
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:07 PM
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Strange to me that in year six AG is still building the program
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  #78  
Old 01-22-2023, 09:13 PM
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Jim Crews was named National COY a couple places. It's a great achievement, but a lot of times it comes down to exceeding expectations and who has the best story.

2019-2020 was a great season, but outside of that AG has been an NIT-Level coach.
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  #79  
Old 01-22-2023, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
And they call me the fool, LMAO, this guy and I quote would rather have a coach that builds a program the right way which he had not done in 6 years than a guy who went 4 for 4 straight NCAA appearances, and I’m the FOOL
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Unless AG steps down, he’s going to be here until he retires
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Strange to me that in year six AG is still building the program
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His next set of recruits will be the ones to build the program.
  #81  
Old 01-22-2023, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
And they call me the fool, LMAO, this guy and I quote would rather have a coach that builds a program the right way which he had not done in 6 years than a guy who went 4 for 4 straight NCAA appearances, and I’m the FOOL
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  #82  
Old 01-22-2023, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Jim Crews was named National COY a couple places. It's a great achievement, but a lot of times it comes down to exceeding expectations and who has the best story.

2019-2020 was a great season, but outside of that AG has been an NIT-Level coach.
Don't forget Keno Davis was also a COY winner...yikes!
  #83  
Old 01-22-2023, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Don't forget Keno Davis was also a COY winner...yikes!
Yikes is right…but not a Naismith College Coach of the Year…
  #84  
Old 01-22-2023, 10:20 PM
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How is this any different than Jim O’Brien? People are hanging to one season with an NBA player that’s far outside of a coach’s historical norm. It’s down to hoping and wishing that lightening is striking twice

No, AG isn’t O’Brien bad but people are letting one season cloud their judgement

Missing the tourney three straight seasons (assuming no A10) marked by head scratching losses and blowing big leads doesn’t exactly lend confidence to any objective observer that winning big is just around the corner
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  #85  
Old 01-22-2023, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Disappointing game but this season is three days In Brooklyn
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While I agree with the sentiment, this team doesn't look like they can make it to Saturday, much less Sunday.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
While I agree with the sentiment, this team doesn't look like they can make it to Saturday, much less Sunday.
At this point maybe, maybe not. Mali and Elvis are kind of back, we’ll see what happens. But if you say that they can’t and give up on them - then sorry, you fit the definition of FWF.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
My feelings aren’t hurt- like I have mentioned many times before…my life doesn’t end if Dayton loses or doesn’t make the NCAA. Disappointed yes, life over- No. The season isn’t over yet, you all act like it is. That defines a fair weather fan- sorry if I hurt your feelings but that’s the truth.

And I add: UD has NEVER Won an NCAA- ever. AG is the ONLY UD coach to win a COY award(s). Quit acting like this is JOBv2, it’s not. If Neil decides a change needs to be made, so be it.

Add again: The fact that AG won National COY awards at “mid-major” Dayton makes the accomplishment even more impressive as that award is usually awarded to “Famous” coaches with “multiple championships”. Only AG, Martelli and Cooley from my memory stand out as winners from less famous schools
Nice straw man...
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Old 01-23-2023, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
If you can find someone better than a national coach of the year who wants the job I’ll pay half their salary.

PM me when you do.
If Neil isn't able to find a coach that can make the tournament more often than once every 6 years, then perhaps he should find other employment as well. That's his job. Not ours.
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  #89  
Old 01-23-2023, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
If Neil isn't able to find a coach that can make the tournament more often than once every 6 years, then perhaps he should find other employment as well. That's his job. Not ours.
It is much easier to complain about a problem than to fix it.
Complain away!
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Old 01-23-2023, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
It is much easier to complain about a problem than to fix it.
Complain away!
I have plenty of ideas of coaches that would do better, but if I throw them out here then it becomes a debate about their merits and shifts focus from the problem that needs to be addressed first. Acknowledging that Grant probably isn't the guy is the first step a weird number of people are struggling to admit.

And really, I'm in no position to "fix it" even if I do have all the answers. That's on Neil. And again, if he can't, then why is he the one in that seat?
  #91  
Old 01-23-2023, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Donoher took us to an E8 and a Final- but plenty hated him…but that was ok huh? AG’s 19-20 team likely is a legit Final 4 team if not National Champion. As good as AM’s E8 team, nobody expected them to contend for Championship- was a cinderella run. Time will tell- but unless AG walks away from coaching- he’ll be here for quite a while so if you don't like him, don’t know what to say.
You mention this multiple times in your arguments. Since it never happened, it is pure conjecture. You also (I think) mention they were a possible #1 seed. Again, It never happened. Sure, nice to bring it up in a casual conversation with someone who is a mild CBB fan. But nobody today cares!!

It's like making a statement that UD played in the NCAA Championship to an outsider. You get a puzzled look back as they try to remember back a few years to that time. It was over 50 years!

Was it a missed opportunity? Yes. But both of us had a potential opportunity as a human being to be the next Einstein, but for me it didn't pan out. How about you?


Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
And I add: UD has NEVER Won an NCAA- ever. AG is the ONLY UD coach to win a COY award(s). Quit acting like this is JOBv2, it’s not. If Neil decides a change needs to be made, so be it.

Add again: The fact that AG won National COY awards at “mid-major” Dayton makes the accomplishment even more impressive as that award is usually awarded to “Famous” coaches with “multiple championships”. Only AG, Martelli and Cooley from my memory stand out as winners from less famous schools
Again, a nice fact to mention. But since then who cares? In todays social media environment fame is shorter than 15 minutes. Let alone a few years ago.

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Strange to me that in year six AG is still building the program
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This is more telling than what happened in 2019-2020.

Yes everyone around here very much enjoyed the Obi season. Was disappointed in the way it ended. And now see the frustration of what has transpired since.

Fire AG? Maybe, maybe not but trajectory and trends do not necessarily point to the heights we saw in 2019-2020.
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
I have plenty of ideas of coaches that would do better, but if I throw them out here then it becomes a debate about their merits and shifts focus from the problem that needs to be addressed first. Acknowledging that Grant probably isn't the guy is the first step a weird number of people are struggling to admit.

And really, I'm in no position to "fix it" even if I do have all the answers. That's on Neil. And again, if he can't, then why is he the one in that seat?
Ok, I'll bite.
We all agree that no one outside of Neil can "fix it". So lets say Neil agrees it needs to be fixed. You need to back up your claim that you have "plenty of ideas of coaches that would do better". You certainly have to narrow that down to those who we could reasonably persuade to take our HC position at our budgeted salary. I'm guessing that drains the pool considerably. Give me 2 proven D1 coaches that would be better than AG and that would leave their current situation for Dayton.
And yes, it does become a debate about their merits versus the merits of our current HC. That's the nature of every fire/hire situation.
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Ok, I'll bite.
We all agree that no one outside of Neil can "fix it". So lets say Neil agrees it needs to be fixed. You need to back up your claim that you have "plenty of ideas of coaches that would do better". You certainly have to narrow that down to those who we could reasonably persuade to take our HC position at our budgeted salary. I'm guessing that drains the pool considerably. Give me 2 proven D1 coaches that would be better than AG and that would leave their current situation for Dayton.
And yes, it does become a debate about their merits versus the merits of our current HC. That's the nature of every fire/hire situation.
Not to derail the current spat, but I remember plenty of people having concerns over how "proven" AG was when hired. His tenure at VCU looked pretty good, but his time at Alabama was quite unremarkable and his termination landed him with an assistant role in the NBA, not another head coaching D1 job.

I was one of them, and I've said the whole time I think the fact that he's a respected alumnus will result in the situation being very good if he's winning (staying power), or very bad if he's not (excessive loyalty). Some of us are content holding onto one year, and some want more consistency than that.

I have tried to be patient, and as last season imploded I put my personal line in the sand. We Dance this year or I'm done with him. History isn't written yet and there's still a chance we Dance. Neil also has written goals. It's up to him how firmly he wants to hold to those should we fail to win the A10 tourney again, and thus fail to make the NCAA tourney again - those are his stated goals.

Much like Shocka has stated, my employees have performance metrics that must be hit, and they know exactly what they are. I have the same as an employee myself. I'm alright with a slip-up now and again, but I will not keep you around if you hit a home run on one project, but then under-deliver on every other one I put you on.

And frankly, that one year gave us absolutely nothing to show due to very unfortunate circumstances. Not downplaying it, but the talks of "we might have been a #1 seed and won it all" just don't mean squat. Every year that goes by, it means less and less. Being a Preseason Top 25 team that can't even make the dance will stand out more in a current 15-17 year old recruit than what happened in one season 4/5/6 years ago.
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  #94  
Old 01-23-2023, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
AG’s 19-20 team likely is a legit Final 4 team if not National Champion. As good as AM’s E8 team, nobody expected them to contend for Championship- was a cinderella run.
We just don't know what would have happened that year. There was a small sample size, we played four ncaat teams that year. Maybe we win it all, maybe we lose in the round of 32, the ncaat is very unpredictable, that is why people love it so much. I would like to think that we would have at least made it to the Sweet 16.

Torvik:
Kansas...1 seed...lost in OT on a neutral court
Saint Mary's...7 seed...won on a neutral court
Colorado...9 seed...lost in OT on a neutral court
Richmond...11 seed...won at Richmond

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  #95  
Old 01-23-2023, 12:58 PM
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The AD's office shouldn't and cant just be happy about "butts in the seats". This isn't the Dayton Dragons. Ask how happy they are that nearly every one of those preferred "club" seats with access to the club lounges are empty? I rarely seem them even close to full. If the money was happy, those would be full every game with the club lounge full. This program does not rely on game to game fans to make it click. It is part of it, but it is not the deciding factor. The guys in front, the silent check writers, the guys with their names engraved on little plaques around the Arena, the ones with their names indicating giving in the Donoher Center...they are the ones that have to be happy. Some indicators and insiders say they are getting weary. I know a handful of people that used to fly religiously with the team for away games. That isn't happening anymore.

I have seen many loyal season ticket holders giving up seats game to game. This rarely happened the last few seasons. It isn't a display of a lack of loyalty, it is due to rearranged priorities.

I want AG to succeed. I want him to be the guy for a LONG period of time. Right now his results and resume are not indicating he is that guy.

I have the "Dayton Flyers 2020 Champs Probably" poster framed in my bar. It is in jest and out of frustration from the end of that season. It is not a sign of satisfaction which will last forever. The season that could of been wasn't. No one in the real world can determine success by "what we think" could have happened. Did that season give AG some leeway? Sure. But how much?

If we want to play the game of "what ifs"...what if 2019-2020 wouldn't have happened? Would the sweaters still be in Grant's shorts? Or would he be gone?

We are in a period of time once again where underperforming will drive UD into mid-major realty forever. We got passed by Xavier due to not being in a position to compete for a larger conference, we aren't setting ourselves up currently for anything other than mid-major realignment for a long period of time.

Face it...we don't set ourselves apart from peer institutions. Peer schools aren't in the A10. But we have made them our peers.
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  #96  
Old 01-23-2023, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Strange to me that in year six AG is still building the program
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Let me re-phrase that to "building a program without the drama associated with the previous coach". Building a program that isn't constantly embarrassing from off court antics.
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  #97  
Old 01-23-2023, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
We are in a period of time once again where underperforming will drive UD into mid-major realty forever. We got passed by Xavier due to not being in a position to compete for a larger conference, we aren't setting ourselves up currently for anything other than mid-major realignment for a long period of time.

Face it...we don't set ourselves apart from peer institutions. Peer schools aren't in the A10. But we have made them our peers.
Well put. We lost in the first round of the conference reshuffling, and we're in no better position for the next.

The only people that think of Dayton as anything other than a mid-major with some cute narrative (passionate fanbase, NCAA tournament host, some ancient success, etc.) are Dayton fans.

As an individual with rooting interests in the Big East and Big Ten, I can tell you nobody's particularly impressed with Dayton. Most Big East fans are strongly opposed to adding Dayton (and SLU).

The only way to fix it is with winning. And there's no reason Dayton shouldn't be doing what Xavier did to the A10 in the 2000s. No reason. Grant needs to do better, full stop.

Absent winning the A10 tournament this spring, Grant gets one more season to show the program has the potential to consistently sit atop an increasingly mediocre A10.

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  #98  
Old 01-23-2023, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post

We are in a period of time once again where underperforming will drive UD into mid-major realty forever. We got passed by Xavier due to not being in a position to compete for a larger conference, we aren't setting ourselves up currently for anything other than mid-major realignment for a long period of time.

Face it...we don't set ourselves apart from peer institutions. Peer schools aren't in the A10. But we have made them our peers.
We got passed by X back in the 1970's due to very poor long term visions for the men's basketball team future. Conference affiliation wasn't something that was important at Dayton (the arena and it's revenues were) and X saw a different path which is why they are where they are today, (bigger conference, better success). X is one of the main reasons Dayton isn't in the Big East now; they don't want us in. I don't think it matters what Dayton's success is the next 3-5 years-(with respect to a Big East invite).
  #99  
Old 01-23-2023, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
We got passed by X back in the 1970's due to very poor long term visions for the men's basketball team future. Conference affiliation wasn't something that was important at Dayton (the arena and it's revenues were) and X saw a different path which is why they are where they are today, (bigger conference, better success). X is one of the main reasons Dayton isn't in the Big East now; they don't want us in. I don't think it matters what Dayton's success is the next 3-5 years-(with respect to a Big East invite).
Disagree. X is in the Big East due to the recent sustained success they've had. Dayton and X were effectively on equal footing in the 2000s, and we know who had more success. If Thad Matter or Sean Miller lay an egg, I strongly doubt they're in the Big East.

Why is Butler in the Big East? They had less status than Dayton until they really started cooking with Stevens.

It is very much a "What have you done for me lately?" industry. Dayton simply hasn't done enough (save the Archie Miller years).
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  #100  
Old 01-23-2023, 01:44 PM
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The UD basketball program reminds me of how the Cubs were looked at before they won the World Series

Very loyal fan base
Rich history
Legendary players
Great place to watch a game
A great year or two sandwiched by several average years
Wait til next year mentality
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