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  #1  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:13 AM
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The Schumer Shutdown

Democrats will not fund the government unless they get DACA amnesty. Don't mix immigration policy with government funding unless you are willing to give and take on the chain immigration, the immigration lottery and the wall.

National defense is now held hostage by Democrats demanding amnesty for illegal immigrants.

The Trump administration is willing to deal on DACA, but will not allow it to happens without other immigration reform that prevents DACA situations from happening over and over in the future.

This strategy will be a loser for Congressional Democrats.
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:17 AM
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Typical. The GOP controls the House, Senate and WH and it’s the Dems fault.

If you say so, but that’s not what most Americans think:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...393_story.html
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:39 AM
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Fifty-one seats in the Senate is not "control" of legislation that requires 60 votes for passage.

If Democratic senators refuse to fund the government over illegal immigration issues, they have the power to control the funding of the government.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:46 AM
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Keep them shut down. Essentials will be taken care of, I'll still get paid, and the swamp will continue to drain. Screw them all.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Typical. The GOP controls the House, Senate and WH and it’s the Dems fault.

If you say so, but that’s not what most Americans think:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...393_story.html
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If 51 R's vote Yes and 49 Ds vote no, the common American will assume the 'no' voters are the problem.

Too bad the Rs can't vote twice...like others do in general elections.
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Keep them shut down. Essentials will be taken care of, I'll still get paid, and the swamp will continue to drain. Screw them all.
Rollo, are you furloughed now?
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:20 AM
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Swampy...it doesn't matter who is in control at this point.

One thing you should agree on, as should everyone else in this room...legislation meant to address one issue (budget) shouldn't be tied to another issue (immigration).

This is the exact problem regarding "draining the swamp" that is brought up. The reason government is ineffective, on BOTH sides, is the fact that people are only willing to agree with one side if unreasonable items are tucked into an unrelated bill that have nothing to do with the item at hand.

This is like saying a local city council will only agree to buy the police department new cruisers if the engineering department gets to switch from PC to Mac.

This is the precise problem. BOTH parties should be aggravated at the failure of government to carry out their duties. Unfortunately, in this case, the dems are the ones holding back the bill by trying to insert non-budgetary legislation into the bill. If they want cooperation, they vote in the bi-partisan budget bill and attack DACA and immigration in a completely separate and significant bill. It is that simple...and THAT is how government should function.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Rollo, are you furloughed now?
I wish. A couple days off, knowing that I'd get backpay once the bill is passed, would be nice.
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:06 AM
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It's Called RESIST

The Democrats wanted a shutdown. RESIST. They don't care that much about DACA or they would have dealt with Trump who was willing to give them a DACA deal. They only want to show their base that they will give Trump nothing. It is a Democrat shutdown which is ironic because it is the Democrats who like big government so much.
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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Considering you need 60 votes in the Senate to pass the spending bill then yes it is the democrats fault. Chucky and Nancy have their minions in line.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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CNN disagrees with the general...public blames Schumer and Dems

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politi...aca/index.html

Since Trump has no vote, I don't see how the (uneducated) public or pollsters could include him in their questioning, but it is CNN so I shouldn't expect perfection and should expect twisting of basic truths.

"Overall, about half of Americans say they would blame ...Republican counterparts in Congress (26%) should Congress fail to fund the government by the midnight Friday deadline. About a third, 31%, say they would hold the Democrats in Congress responsible,..."

Developmental Math says 31 > 26...Dems to blame on this one, general.

Additionally, the Dems know DACA/immigration can't pass on it's own which is why they insist this unpopular legislation be attached to an Emergency Funding Bill. It's obviously an act of desperation...which is an admission that it's unpopular...and the CNN Poll proves it.
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Typical. The GOP controls the House, Senate and WH and it’s the Dems fault.

If you say so, but that’s not what most Americans think:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...393_story.html
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Swampy - Are you really Jim Acosta -or just a Jim Acosta wannabe.

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2018, 10:56 AM
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You guys do realize that not even 50 Republicans voted for the CR?

Don’t you?
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:02 AM
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I wouldnt vote for it either if the democrats put DACA in there.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
You guys do realize that not even 50 Republicans voted for the CR?

Don’t you?
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You do realize there are only 50 with McCain in cancer treatment. Minus the McConnell "no" vote for procedural reasons. The maximum number of Republican votes was 49. Another epic Swampy swing and miss.

Don't you?

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  #16  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:24 AM
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The Democrats only talked about Daca. They actually never tried to put forth anything on Daca that could be voted on with the temporary budget. Just a bunch of smoke and screens.

Yesterday the President invited Schumer for lunch to discuss a solution and compromise. Schumer instead of discussing a solution proposed more spending for new things. The guy was not, and is not, sincere. He wants a shutdown because he is playing his negative media game, and to hell with the rest of us.

CNN this morning was reporting that Trump and Ivana are celebrating their one year anniversary in the White House by going to Florida, while the country suffers a shutdown. Only one problem, the Trump's are not going to Florida. Much more fake news.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
You do realize there are only 50 with McCain in cancer treatment. Minus the McConnell "no" vote for procedural reasons.

Don't you?
Four Republicans voted against it, because they want a real budget voted on, not a temporary. Five Democrats voted for it. The rest voted against it for no stated reason.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:40 AM
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Like I said, this is a loser of a shutdown on the part of the Democrats. People don't want the government shut down over demands about illegal immigration amnesty. Generally, there is support for DACA if it is coupled with changes that prevent mass amnesty from happening over and over. Address the border along with it. It won't be a freebie in exchange for nothing. End chain migration and the idiotic visa lottery. Fund border security.

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  #19  
Old 01-20-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Typical. The GOP controls the House, Senate and WH and it’s the Dems fault.

If you say so, but that’s not what most Americans think:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...393_story.html
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Swampy, do you ever agree with the GOP on anything?

With all due respect, it just seems like you are all liberal all the time.

I agree with the Democrats on some things: off the top of my head, I think we need more gun control, and I am ok with gay marriage.

I do not think that these Dreamers should be made citizens just because their parents snuck them into the country when they were children, that is amnesty, and unfortunately, such a policy would lead to an unending stream of people sneaking their kids into the country.

And I think we need to end birthright citizenship too.

I think the Dreamers, once they turn 18, need to go back to their country of origin, where they can apply for an immigration visa to get back into the US. I just can't justify giving them special status just because they were brought here illegally as children.
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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the former staff writer is a good gov't robot citizen

I'm not sure the general believes anything since all he does is repeat what he hears. Big difference...big royal difference!
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  #21  
Old 01-20-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
...idiotic visa lottery.
I actually think I am ok with the visa lottery. Otherwise, what hope is there that the poor and down-trodden, from other countries, can ever become a US citizen?

I do think that the US, as the leader of the free world, has a certain amount of responsibility to take in a certain amount of poor, down-trodden people.

We are a nation of poor, down-trodden immigrants.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I actually think I am ok with the visa lottery. Otherwise, what hope is there that the poor and down-trodden, from other countries, can ever become a US citizen?

I do think that the US, as the leader of the free world, has a certain amount of responsibility to take in a certain amount of poor, down-trodden people.

We are a nation of poor, down-trodden immigrants.
The visa lottery is completely random. It does not focus on the poor and downtrodden. The poor and downtrodden come in ample supply with normal immigration right now.

We want poor and downtrodden who want to work hard to build a life for themselves and want to assimilate into the country. That is why we need to screen people, not just pick anyone.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:10 PM
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So the stuff is already happening. My grandsons, who live on base, had all their basketball games cancelled today, as they could not open the gym. The overseas' troups have had the American Forces Network shut off, so no playoff football games this weekend. I guess Schumer can tell them they can go to a dreamer's house and watch lol. My son has marines in training, and some ready to graduate, who have been told come back home now.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:46 PM
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Mitch McConnell blocked a bill that would ensure military personnel get their pay during the Trump shutdown— way to look out for the troops.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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Then the Democrats should not have caused a shut down. It's a shut down. Can't have your cake and eat it too. And the Democrats shut down CHIP - cut off the funds for 9 million children.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Mitch McConnell blocked a bill that would ensure military personnel get their pay during the Trump shutdown— way to look out for the troops.
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Why should DACA (immigration policy) be part of a budget bill?
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Why should DACA (immigration policy) be part of a budget bill?
So our Congressmen can have cheap nannies.

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Old 01-21-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Mitch McConnell blocked a bill that would ensure military personnel get their pay during the Trump shutdown— way to look out for the troops.
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How can anyone call this the Trump shutdown? You can blame the Republicans who voted "no" on Friday, but Trump has no vote. Please explain. This is not like a corporations where the CEO has final say. We have three branches of government. Maybe you and others are saying if Trump gave in to most of the Dems wishes, then the Dems would have voted "yes". I doubt it.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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From the New York Times:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonMalo...30713647820801

Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 01-21-2018 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:59 PM
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The American Forces Network is deemed essential by Trump White House, so games will be telecast today. Thank you Mr President.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Mitch McConnell blocked a bill that would ensure military personnel get their pay during the Trump shutdown— way to look out for the troops.
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I asked my son. He said that they would be paid this week. More fake news!
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I asked my son. He said that they would be paid this week. More fake news!
Nothing fake about it Ace. The Dems brought it up; McConnell said and I quote: “I object.”

I got your fake news right here
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:58 PM
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It is pretty simple. The democrats care more about illegal immigrants than they do American citizens. They held the entire government hostage over DACA. DACA has nothing to do with the budget, and the "deadline" for DACA isn't until March 5. I put "deadline" in quotes because they aren't going to start deporting dreamers at midnight on March 5. I believe 47 Republicans voted to keep the government open along with three democrats. So whose fault is the shutdown??? There was nothing in that bill that the democrats objected to, but they voted against it. The democrats want the Republicans to get the blame and they don't care if the shutdown hurts the economy, because that will help their prospects in November.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:28 PM
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Here is one CNN link Swampy won't post

"Democrats have a lot of explaining to do"

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/21/opinio...art/index.html

As a side note, what are the odds the reporter who wrote the above story is still employed @ CNN by this time next week?
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:43 PM
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So, the if the minority has at least 41 senators, they can shut down the government for any policy demand that they want indefinitely. And then they can blame the majority for "not governing"? Pulease.

Get your act together Democrats.
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:45 PM
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Another Senate vote is scheduled for noon tomorrow...wait and see what happens.


http://www.kmov.com/story/37311739/m...at-1-am-monday
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:15 AM
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USAA helping out military members with interest free payday loans if necessary.

https://www.military.com/paycheck-ch...-shutdown.html
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Nothing fake about it Ace. The Dems brought it up; McConnell said and I quote: “I object.”

I got your fake news right here
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Swampy...I am still looking for an answer...

Why should DACA (immigration policy) be part of a budget bill?
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Swampy...I am still looking for an answer...

Why should DACA (immigration policy) be part of a budget bill?
First, it has zero to do with a CR. Second, there isn’t even a DACA bill to vote on. Third, in negotiations, Dems were given DACA concessions in return for more border security. They have objected. I honk it is pretty clear Dems are the party of illegal immigration and shutdown.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
First, it has zero to do with a CR. Second, there isn’t even a DACA bill to vote on. Third, in negotiations, Dems were given DACA concessions in return for more border security. They have objected. I honk it is pretty clear Dems are the party of illegal immigration and shutdown.
Yep...I specifically want Swampy to answer these questions. He will continue to deflect, while not focusing on the main issue. They won't pass a budget until they get what they want in terms of DACA relief...since they can't pass any future DACA bill without cramming it into a budget that the GOP wants to pass ASAP. House did their job..typical senate.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Nothing fake about it Ace. The Dems brought it up; McConnell said and I quote: “I object.”

I got your fake news right here
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Your answer is disgusting, and I will take the high rode and let the facts speak for themselves.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I asked my son. He said that they would be paid this week. More fake news!
Sir, you may want to tell your son that he will not get paid until Congress agrees on a short or long terms budget plan. If the furlough ends before the next pay period, no issues. If not, please ensure that he is prepared to take on the financial burden accordingly. He will get backpay eventually, but it may be tight for him and others until this is over. I believe USAA and other banks are offering interest free loans until the furlough ends.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Sir, you may want to tell your son that he will not get paid until Congress agrees on a short or long terms budget plan. If the furlough ends before the next pay period, no issues. If not, please ensure that he is prepared to take on the financial burden accordingly. He will get backpay eventually, but it may be tight for him and others until this is over. I believe USAA and other banks are offering interest free loans until the furlough ends.
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And why the Democrats should not have forced the shutdown. Shut downs have consequences. It will take 7 more Democrat votes to lift the shut down.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
And why the Democrats should not have forced the shutdown. Shut downs have consequences. It will take 7 more Democrat votes to lift the shut down.
I thought President Trump Tweeted in 2013 that a government shutdown falls squarely on the shoulder of the President?? Wasn't he all for it in in 2013?
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:34 AM
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You are talking around what is happening. The Democrats forced the shut down. It will take 7 Democrats to lift the shut down which they forced. The American people are being held hostage.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:37 AM
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Remarks from our Leader:

“Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead,” said Trump during an appearance on one of his favourite talk shows, Fox & Friends, on January 20, 2013, 10 days before a shutdown began October 1.

"Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."
Twitter: 8:01 PM - Nov 8, 2013


Ten days into the shutdown, on October 11, Trump appeared on CNN to give Obama some advice. “You have to get people in a room and you have to just make deals for the good of the country,” Trump said.

“You just have a president that is not leading and not getting people into a room and not shouting, and cajoling, and laughing, and having a good time, and having a terrible time,” he said.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:41 AM
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Shouldn't be...

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Swampy...I am still looking for an answer...

Why should DACA (immigration policy) be part of a budget bill?
Shouldn't be...but that's the way the jerks we send to DC behave. A few years ago the GOP did the same thing by tying Obamacare to the budget bill resulting in a shutdown, as I recall.

Just about everyone has low regard for Congress.....then when it's time to vote we send 95% of them right back to their job. To say that Democracy sucks as a form of government is an understatement....but...
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Remarks from our Leader:

“Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead,” said Trump during an appearance on one of his favourite talk shows, Fox & Friends, on January 20, 2013, 10 days before a shutdown began October 1.

"Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."
Twitter: 8:01 PM - Nov 8, 2013


Ten days into the shutdown, on October 11, Trump appeared on CNN to give Obama some advice. “You have to get people in a room and you have to just make deals for the good of the country,” Trump said.

“You just have a president that is not leading and not getting people into a room and not shouting, and cajoling, and laughing, and having a good time, and having a terrible time,” he said.
You have a Schumer who does not care about the American people. He cares more about illegal immigrants over the military and funding the government. Trump agreed to discuss DACA, but after the government is funded. The Democrats do not want to give Trump anything the American people voted him in for. The Democrats are filibustering the American people. And since all the Democrats care about is RESIST, there is nothing Trump can do about their political move. Trump had meetings all last week negotiating. The Democrats would give him nothing. Trump is powerless. Don't you understand how government works. The Democrats had a politically miscalculated shut down. The Federal workers in Virginia are unhappy with their Democrat representative as the Democrats have put illegal interests over their own constituents. Tom Cotton said when the Democrats don't get what they want, they run out and lie about the meeting.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
You are talking around what is happening. The Democrats forced the shut down. It will take 7 Democrats to lift the shut down which they forced. The American people are being held hostage.
Not really though. You are giving waaaaayyy too much credit to those 7 Democrats. The R's own Washington right now. Everyone knows when the budget is due, yet there was little/no attempt to push a budget through by the deadline(s). For whatever reason, Congress always waits until the last minute and it's been going on for FAR too long.

Same ****, different day.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
You have a Schumer who does not care about the American people. He cares more about illegal immigrants over the military and funding the government. Trump agreed to discuss DACA, but after the government is funded. The Democrats do not want to give Trump anything the American people voted him in for. The Democrats are filibustering the American people. And since all the Democrats care about is RESIST, there is nothing Trump can do about their political move. Trump had meetings all last week negotiating. The Democrats would give him nothing. Trump is powerless. Don't you understand how government works. The Democrats had a politically miscalculated shut down. The Federal workers in Virginia are unhappy with their Democrat representative as the Democrats have put illegal interests over their own constituents. Tom Cotton said when the Democrats don't get what they want, they run out and lie about the meeting.
Nice theory....
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Not really though. You are giving waaaaayyy too much credit to those 7 Democrats. The R's own Washington right now. Everyone knows when the budget is due, yet there was little/no attempt to push a budget through by the deadline(s). For whatever reason, Congress always waits until the last minute and it's been going on for FAR too long.

Same ****, different day.
Not true. With 7 more Democrat votes the shut down would stop. It could happen today if the Democrats vote to stop it. There is going to be a vote. The Republicans cannot stop it without those 7 more Democrat votes.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Not true. With 7 more Democrat votes the shut down would stop. It could happen today if the Democrats vote to stop it. There is going to be a vote. The Republicans cannot stop it without those 7 more Democrat votes.
Then my advice is for Congress to lock themselves in a room and figure out how to GOVERN so that everyone gets a little piece of the pie that they all desire. Shouldn’t have waited until the last minute to do their jobs, right? And FFS FUND THE MILITARY!!!
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  #53  
Old 01-22-2018, 12:38 PM
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This is a democracy. The President has no vote in Congress, nor can he tell them what to do. He is not their boss, like some corporation.

This is like a company that has a strike. The Democrats have gone on strike, and no one can order them back to work, not the CEO, not the Board of Directors, not the shareholders. Just like in a company strike, the union leadership can agree with the company on an agreement, but until it is ratified it is not binding. Trump or Schumer or Graham or Durbin or others and their so-called deals are just grandstanding nonsense. As shown by the vote on Friday, until the Senators see what they want, they will not vote 'no', and no President is going to make them vote 'Yes'.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Shouldn't be...but that's the way the jerks we send to DC behave. A few years ago the GOP did the same thing by tying Obamacare to the budget bill resulting in a shutdown, as I recall.

Just about everyone has low regard for Congress.....then when it's time to vote we send 95% of them right back to their job. To say that Democracy sucks as a form of government is an understatement....but...
The difference is that Obamacare is/was directly tied to the budget...there is a "line item" for it.

DACA is policy...not financial.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
Then my advice is for Congress to lock themselves in a room and figure out how to GOVERN so that everyone gets a little piece of the pie that they all desire. Posted via Mobile Device
As stated above..."piece of the pie" needs to be with the budget and finance. DACA is policy.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:18 PM
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The Schumerite's caved like a weak deck of cards. I have negotiated a boat load of union contracts in my career. The great majority of the ones that went on strike revoted several days later and passed the same contract offer, or even less. You always think, why did they do this? Emotional appeal to the workers (voters) is a huge reason.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The Schumerite's caved like a weak deck of cards. I have negotiated a boat load of union contracts in my career. The great majority of the ones that went on strike revoted several days later and passed the same contract offer, or even less. You always think, why did they do this? Emotional appeal to the workers (voters) is a huge reason.
Yup...the emotion wears off in front of a group...then it all comes crashing down...only to realize that someone called your bluff.
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:43 PM
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Isn't it nice to finally have a Republican President that doesn't cave to the democrats every whim.

<bold face used so Trumpy will pay attention>
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:03 AM
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#Winning

If the Dems are smart, they'll take Trump's offer to work with them on DACA in exchange for tightening up border security, ending chain immigration, etc.

Schumer caved because he knows Manchin/Heitkamp/McCaskill/Tester/etc are dead men/women walking come November if the Dems persist in the Pelosi fantasy world of RESIST.

If the Dems could get over their TIM (Trump-Induced-Mania), something may actually get done in DC.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:52 AM
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I find no glee in this. It's a sad state of affairs. Trump has always signaled his willingness to negotiate on DACA. But the Dems have to be willing to give up something at the negotiation table to do it.

This shut-down strategy was ill-fated from the beginning. You don't hold the finances of the government hostage over illegal immigration demands. It's just one example of overzealous anti-Trumpism. So overzealous that they harm their own credibility and the country.

By the way, it really was a "Schumer Shutdown". It was calculated political move. It would have worked if lower energy "Jeb!" were in the White House.

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Old 01-23-2018, 10:18 AM
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I have seen a couple GOP people basically boast/brag/rub it in about how the GOP "won" the shutdown fight, and Schumer and the Democrats blinked/backed down/etc.

We need to win with some class. And we need to stop viewing these shut downs as some sort of us vs. them battle. We are all on the same side.

And we need to quit egging on the other side with the braggadocious behavior. That is only going to make Schumer et al. want to come out with guns blazing next time.

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Old 01-23-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I have seen a couple GOP people basically boast/brag/rub it in about how the GOP "won" the shutdown fight, and Schumer and the Democrats blinked/backed down/etc.

We need to win with some class. And we need to stop viewing these shut downs as some sort of us vs. them battle. We are all on the same side.

And we need to quit egging on the other side with the braggadocious behavior. That is only going to make Schumer et al want to come out with guns blazing next time.
Exactly. The dick measuring contests get old. If the GOP's plan is to beat up the dems on DACA, then you surly don't rub this in their face now. You only end up making it more difficult in the future.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:37 PM
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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e5630070f553


Some speculation above that Schumer offered Trump $20 billion in border wall funding in exchange for legal status for the Dreamers. Trump said that the deal was too liberal.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:11 PM
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Why does Trump have to offer anything to Schumer. Remember what Obama said, "We won."

I know it is all well and good to have partisanship but elections have consequences and the democrats need to learn that lesson.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I have seen a couple GOP people basically boast/brag/rub it in about how the GOP "won" the shutdown fight, and Schumer and the Democrats blinked/backed down/etc.

We need to win with some class. And we need to stop viewing these shut downs as some sort of us vs. them battle. We are all on the same side.

And we need to quit egging on the other side with the braggadocious behavior. That is only going to make Schumer et al want to come out with guns blazing next time.
Trump brought both sides together a couple of weeks ago to address the DACA issue as part of a broader discussion of immigration reform. He didn't have to do that, but it was probably the first instance of true bipartisanship I've seen in the better part of the last decade. Trump's presidency has been marked by nothing but RESIST from the other side of the aisle.

Schumer's move yesterday was strictly to prevent a very public crumbling of his sway over the most vulnerable members of his Senate coalition. When he no longer has to worry about them looking good in the shower for the mid-terms, it will be back to RESISTANCE as usual.

Screw them. Strike while the iron is hot. Reiterate DACA for immigration reforms that will prevent future DACA situations. End this Democratic charade of caring for immigrants when everyone but your neighbor's dog knows it's about trying to stuff the ballot box in 2040. If their feelings are hurt, TFB. No one cared when the Republicans were told to sit in the corner and color when the Dems gerrymandered healthcare into the gargantuan mess it is now.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e5630070f553


Some speculation above that Schumer offered Trump $20 billion in border wall funding in exchange for legal status for the Dreamers. Trump said that the deal was too liberal.
The Huffington Post is like reading jello. Other reports had the number Schumer offered at $10 million, and Trump only asked for $18 million. And of course the other issues of chain migration and the lottery system, where are they? If accurate, and who knows, was Chuckie trying to trade $2 million for the wall in exchange for keeping chain migration and the lottery?
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:08 PM
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Schumer just said he is taking his wall offer off the table. What table? So I guess he thinks he will get Dacca for nothing. Is marijuana now legal in the Senate?
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Trump brought both sides together a couple of weeks ago to address the DACA issue as part of a broader discussion of immigration reform. He didn't have to do that, but it was probably the first instance of true bipartisanship I've seen in the better part of the last decade. Trump's presidency has been marked by nothing but RESIST from the other side of the aisle.

Schumer's move yesterday was strictly to prevent a very public crumbling of his sway over the most vulnerable members of his Senate coalition. When he no longer has to worry about them looking good in the shower for the mid-terms, it will be back to RESISTANCE as usual.

Screw them. Strike while the iron is hot. Reiterate DACA for immigration reforms that will prevent future DACA situations. End this Democratic charade of caring for immigrants when everyone but your neighbor's dog knows it's about trying to stuff the ballot box in 2040. If their feelings are hurt, TFB. No one cared when the Republicans were told to sit in the corner and color when the Dems gerrymandered healthcare into the gargantuan mess it is now.
Because the GOP doesn't have enough Senate votes to do anything with immigration. Maybe, just maybe, that is why bipartisanship is necessary.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Because the GOP doesn't have enough Senate votes to do anything with immigration. Maybe, just maybe, that is why bipartisanship is necessary.
Maybe just maybe Manchin/Tester/McCaskill/Heitkamp/etc will year you. We could only hope the other 40 odd RESISTORs would similarly put down their pitchforks, but I’m not hopeful.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Because the GOP doesn't have enough Senate votes to do anything with immigration. Maybe, just maybe, that is why bipartisanship is necessary.
I have to give McConnell credit for his agreement to bring an immigration bill to the floor of the Senate. It's likely an honest empty promise. The Republicans do have enough votes in the House to deny anything that may be negotiated in the Senate.

The Democrats can obstruct legislation in the Senate, but they can't pass anything.
In 2013, dozens of pieces of legislation were passed by the Republican controlled House and never saw the light of day in the Harry Reid Senate. The Democrat battle cry was "send us a clean bill!"
Now, an immigration bill can pass the House. McConnell can keep his promise and bring it to the Senate floor. Debate can take place and amendments can be passed, but that bill will have to go back to the House or to a conference committee to work out the difference. At that point, any bill can die or be rewritten to a point that Democrats still won't vote for it in the Senate. Either way, McConnell has kept his promise and has the "bipartisan" upper hand.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Maybe just maybe Manchin/Tester/McCaskill/Heitkamp/etc will year you. We could only hope the other 40 odd RESISTORs would similarly put down their pitchforks, but I’m not hopeful.
The need for bipartisan support to do anything with immigration is exactly why the "genital measuring"/posturing should cease. It helps nobody - especially us.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
The need for bipartisan support to do anything with immigration is exactly why the "genital measuring"/posturing should cease. It helps nobody - especially us.
I agree, tell Barry. He put us on this path.

From 2013:

"You don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e9392cadcb4b

From 2009:

"Let me just make this point, John, because we're not campaigning anymore," Obama said. "The election's over."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-t...lections-over/

Dems demand magnanimity and civility when they’re in the minority. They consistently fail to practice what they preach when in the majority.

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Old 01-23-2018, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The Huffington Post is like reading jello. Other reports had the number Schumer offered at $10 million, and Trump only asked for $18 million. And of course the other issues of chain migration and the lottery system, where are they? If accurate, and who knows, was Chuckie trying to trade $2 million for the wall in exchange for keeping chain migration and the lottery?
The below article says that CS offered around $1.6 billion? in border wall funding.

Does anybody know what was actually offered? The numbers are all over the place.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...on-immigration

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Old 01-23-2018, 11:48 PM
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The funny thing is that Schumer's cocky ass thinks he is the one with the upper hand and running the show.

I typically run these types of people over...with the quickness. This is what is about to happen to him. He needs knocked down a peg and it is going to hurt bad when it does.

Some people just need put in their place...he is one of those people.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The below article says that CS offered around $1.6 billion? in border wall funding.

Does anybody know what was actually offered? The numbers are all over the place.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...on-immigration
My money's on a truckload of cinder blocks and some mortar from Home Depot. Rebar & concrete for the footer is on Trump.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:56 PM
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I got to the game early with my young nephew. We plopped down in the 100's to watch the warmups. The ticket holder's showed up but my poor nephew was there through no fault of his own and the 100's was all he knew (This being his first game). It would be cruel to make him move and since he needed adult supervision I stayed too. That was a great game! Its amazing what you can see up close.
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:06 AM
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The truth hurts
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
I agree, tell Barry. He put us on this path.

From 2013:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e9392cadcb4b

From 2009:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-t...lections-over/

Dems demand magnanimity and civility when they’re in the minority. They consistently fail to practice what they preach when in the majority.
Fair points, but now half the country hates Ocare because it was shoved down our throats.

Do we want to contribute to the anger, bitterness, and partisan acrimony in the country by doing the same thing?

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Old 01-24-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair points, but now half the country hates Ocare because it was shoved down our throats.

Do we want to contribute to the anger, bitterness, and partisan acrimony in the country by doing the same thing?

I hate "Ocare" because conservative estimate that between higher premiums and astronomical deductibles it cost my family around $55K. I hate "Ocare" because I lost my doctor, twice! I hate "Ocare" because the dumbasses who supported it in DC admitted they had to pass it first to find out what was in it.

Apples and Oranges, or in this case Watermelons and raisins.

Build the F'en wall and throw Schumer, Pelosi and crew over it
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I hate "Ocare" because conservative estimate that between higher premiums and astronomical deductibles it cost my family around $55K. I hate "Ocare" because I lost my doctor, twice! I hate "Ocare" because the dumbasses who supported it in DC admitted they had to pass it first to find out what was in it.

Apples and Oranges, or in this case Watermelons and raisins.

Build the F'en wall and throw Schumer, Pelosi and crew over it
You can't build it without the money. You won't get the money without the Senate. You can't get the votes in Senate without the Dems.

What is so hard about understanding math?
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Schumer just said he is taking his wall offer off the table. What table? So I guess he thinks he will get Dacca for nothing. Is marijuana now legal in the Senate?
Schumer’s table is a folding card table or maybe a Little Tykes plastic one. That where he and the other children sit while Trump and the grownups are in the dining room carving the turkey.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:54 PM
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I have no problem with the Dacca's being allowed to stay, but no citizenship. They must wait in line and go through the process. However, in exchange the wall gets built, no more chain migration and no more lottery. I sincerely hope that the President digs in. If in the end if he does not get all of this, then Dacca is dead.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:03 PM
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And someone needs to tell Schumer that he looks like an idiot with those glasses down on the end of his nose. If he thinks it makes him look intelligent he is incorrect.
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  #84  
Old 01-24-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
You can't build it without the money. You won't get the money without the Senate. You can't get the votes in Senate without the Dems.

What is so hard about understanding math?

Well understanding math seems to be a real challenge for those already in the senate in DC. What is our current federal deficit?

Seems to be a yearly problem understanding math in DC, and look at that big old spike in numbers during the Obama reign. It sure looks like when democrats are in control of the White House understanding math becomes a much bigger challenge.

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com...cit_chart.html

So please, in the future vent your math frustrations toward DC, not me. Thank you in advance. Build the **** wall, long term it will solve some of our math issues

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Old 01-24-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Well understanding math seems to be a real challenge for those already in the senate in DC. What is our current federal deficit?

Seems to be a yearly problem understanding math in DC, and look at that big old spike in numbers during the Obama reign. It sure looks like when democrats are in control of the White House understanding math becomes a much bigger challenge.

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com...cit_chart.html

So please, in the future vent your math frustrations toward DC, not me. Thank you in advance. Build the **** wall, long term it will solve some of our math issues
I don't disagree - but you can't build the wall without the funding being approved. You can't get that done without the Senate, which requires Dem votes. That is the math I am talking about - votes.

So, strutting around like a d-bag because you got a 2.5 week extension on the budget is downright childish and stupid - and will not help in getting the votes needed to fund the wall.

We can strut, prance, etc. all we want. It's the idiots in DC that need to get their act together and not create more animosity than already exists now.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
You can't build it without the money. You won't get the money without the Senate. You can't get the votes in Senate without the Dems.

What is so hard about understanding math?
With the 3 idiots that Clayton mentions...

I have a boat...I will put them on it...drive them into the middle of the Atlantic...leave them there... I will even pay for the gas.
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  #87  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:17 PM
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I will supply a volleyball.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:35 PM
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A real budget, rather than continuing resolutions is needed.
A budget comes from the House.
The Senate brings the House budget to the floor for debate and amendment.
The amended budget then goes through the budget reconciliation process which requires only 51 votes in the Senate.
Wall funded without a single Democrat vote.

Unfortunately, both the House and the Senate, regardless of leadership, have proven unable to pass a budget as they are constitutionally required. A Federal Budget has not been passed since 2009.
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  #89  
Old 01-24-2018, 05:39 PM
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^^^ What tends to happen when you promise too much to too many.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Swampy, do you ever agree with the GOP on anything?

With all due respect, it just seems like you are all liberal all the time.

You’ve identified the problem with most of these threads.

To someone like Fudd, everything wrong is the fault of the “Democrats,” while the Republican Party walks on water.

To someone like Swampy, the opposite is true.

Rinse and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And......
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
You’ve identified the problem with most of these threads.

To someone like Fudd, everything wrong is the fault of the “Democrats,” while the Republican Party walks on water.

To someone like Swampy, the opposite is true.

Rinse and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And......
Say what? I have been extremely critical of the Republican party, especially the never-Trumper portion of the party. For instance, I find the traditional Republican party equally culpable for our debt issues. I do not consider myself a social conservative. I'm more of a libertarian on the social issues.

I must admit it is hard to find the redeeming values of the Democratic party since they went the way of socialist doctrine. We live in an age where Bernie has a significant following in the party. That represents an extreme left turn in the fiscal platform of the party that I believe is indefensible.

My criticisms are based on what I believe are good policy vs. bad policy. If the Democratic party suddenly was pushing for policy that I believe is good, sound policy, I would not be critical of them. I am hard pressed to find one portion of the current Democratic platform that I believe is good policy.
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Old 01-25-2018, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
You’ve identified the problem with most of these threads.

To someone like Fudd, everything wrong is the fault of the “Democrats,” while the Republican Party walks on water.

To someone like Swampy, the opposite is true.

Rinse and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And......
LOL, this is so very true. Not necessarily singling out Fudd because I don't pay close enough attention to who says what, per se, but this forum is a microcosm of what our society has become IMO.

In general, if you support the R Party, you believe that everything the R party does is gold plated. Similarly, if you support the D Party, you believe that everything the D party does is gold plated. There is generally no "in the middle".

I would venture to say that if we swapped the current political parties in the WH and in Congress and we were experiencing the same controversies (i.e. Russia investigation; daily "fake news" accusations; "never" Trump; etc.), the R's would be shouting from the mountain tops about how, for example, the D's own the WH and Congress but can't get anything passed and the D's would be complaining about how, for example, our D President is MAGA yet no one is supporting his agenda. Or, the R's would be furious about why our President can get away with "locker room" talk about women and/or how he can get away with paying off his alleged extramarital affairs while the D's continue to support him regardless of his past.

I suppose this is the new reality. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to unify our country, IN GENERAL, is when something like 911 or the Boston Marathon bombing happens, at least initially. Otherwise, we can't seem to agree on much of what is best for our country.

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  #93  
Old 01-25-2018, 07:19 AM
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Paraphrasing:

Rob Reiner was on Laura Ingraham's show just before the shutdown, and he asked LI:

Do you know what the difference between a Republican and a Democrat really is?

LI: No, tell me.

RR: The difference is that Republicans KNOW that they are right, whereas Democrats will at least entertain the possibility that they MIGHT be wrong.




I think that seems pretty accurate.
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
You’ve identified the problem with most of these threads.

To someone like Fudd, everything wrong is the fault of the “Democrats,” while the Republican Party walks on water.

To someone like Swampy, the opposite is true.

Rinse and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And......
I would tend to disagree. On a general term, I and my republican friends want politicians held accountable regardless of affiliation. If one commits a crime then they should suffer the consequences.
The democrats only want politicians punished, on a general term, if and only if they have an "R" after their name. The democrats have perfected the art of "circling the wagons" around one of their own that gets in trouble.

OH, and the media is complicit in all of this.
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  #95  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Paraphrasing:

Rob Reiner was on Laura Ingraham's show just before the shutdown, and he asked LI:

Do you know what the difference between a Republican and a Democrat really is?

LI: No, tell me.

RR: The difference is that Republicans KNOW that they are right, whereas Democrats will at least entertain the possibility that they MIGHT be wrong.

I think that seems pretty accurate.
It's hard to entertain any possibility when constantly cracking down on free speech.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:05 AM
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The details of a possible deal on immigration might be emerging in order to avoid another shutdown.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1FE34C:



Trump plan to offer citizenship to 1.8 million illegal immigrants: senior officials


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump is ready to sign on to a plan that would open a path to citizenship for as many as 1.8 million “Dreamers,” who were brought illegally to the United States as children, senior White House officials said on Thursday.

Trump’s plan, which the White House hopes the Senate will vote on in early February, would require Congress to set up a $25 billion “trust fund” to build a wall on the southern border with Mexico, and invest in better protections at the northern border with Canada.

It would also require Congress to limit family sponsorship of immigrants to spouses and minor children, end a visa lottery system for certain countries, and spend additional money on border guards and immigration judges - among other measures - the officials told reporters in a briefing.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:49 AM
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There is a pretty comprehensive article on the proposed immigration bill below. There are of course heated complaints coming from both sides.

I am guessing that this bill might actually pass in both houses of Congress though.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ts_136112.html
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:13 PM
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I'll pitch in with a few of Republicans that irritate the crap out of me, and can tend to be off in la-la land at times, and other times just opposed just to grandstand: John McCain, Jeff Flake, Steve Bannon, John Kasich and Lindsey Graham.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:35 PM
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cralford cralford is offline
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Originally Posted by dnutz77 View Post
LOL, this is so very true. Or, the R's would be furious about why our President can get away with "locker room" talk about women and/or how he can get away with paying off his alleged extramarital affairs while the D's continue to support him regardless of his past.

I suppose this is the new reality. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to unify our country, IN GENERAL, is when something like 911 or the Boston Marathon bombing happens, at least initially. Otherwise, we can't seem to agree on much of what is best for our country.
I believe you are talking apples and oranges if you are comparing ex-President Clinton and President Trump. In my opinion, there is a ton of difference between unproven allegations brought up in the latter part of a presidential campaign compared to a woman accusing a current president of committing sex acts with her in the white house.

After being accused of these acts during his presidency he not only chose to call her a liar but degraded her personal character and allowed his wife to use all of her viciousness to destroy this young woman that had pleasured her husband. Funny how she has now said that we must now listen to these women. After the blue dress came to light he no longer denied guilt. He just debated the meaning of the word is.

I find it odd dnutz that someone of your character and intelligence assigns guilt to someone that has never been tried or ever in any way admitted guilt. I can understand you having an opinion but not speaking of it as a fact.

I agree the only time we can put politics aside is during a catastrophe but disagree that this is a republican trait. I have been attacked by the democratic party on message boards too many times to fall for that. It is, unfortunately, a human trait. I think if any of us think one political party has the answers they are most likely a pompous ass. I find myself to be one of these from time to time. Henceforth my hat to make myself look the gentleman
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:06 PM
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As someone who belongs to neither major party - and votes on a regular basis for neither major party, my viewpoint is that anything that comes from the R's is derided by the D's and vice versa. There is no longer any "middle ground" in today's environment.

This goes not only in DC, but in our local communities, on social media, etc.

I consider myself an equal opportunity skeptic of anyone in either major party.

I do not believe that the Republican party can simultaneously be the "Party of Family Values" and ignore the personal behavior of Trump. They don't go hand-in-hand. I honestly don't care as I never believed that slogan in the past, anyway. It merely set them up for resignation when they didn't live up to an impossible standard (see Newt Gingrich in the 90s).
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