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Old 03-01-2014, 11:43 AM
BallgameJohnny BallgameJohnny is offline
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It really is just a diffence in talent

We have very few players who actually have basketball talent. A prime example is Devon Scott. Big body, strong, but no real offensive skills and a hack on defense. Doesn't box out well, can't guard post moves, and has no offensive IQ. I have never seen a big guy get his shot blocked so much.
Scoochie, quick, good handle, terrible passer and can't shoot. Is this going to get better? It hasn't ever got better that I can remember except for two guys, CJ and Brian Roberts.
Jalen, regressed and a non factor. Alex, non factor. Pollard, tremendous athlete, no offensive skills. Khari? Playing with an eighty year old body apparently. Vee, terrible decision after terrible decision.
All the while, Archie claps and stomps his feet, grimaces, and really for the most part looks lost. You recruited many of these guys.

So at the end of the day, unless there is an infusion of actual basketball talent, this program is going nowhere.

Pierre is not going to be able to carry this team without a PG and a post, and recruit Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:45 AM
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I think we have a ton of talent...we just don't have defined roles or leadership.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I think we have a ton of talent...we just don't have defined roles or leadership.
I don't see the talent that matched the hype. I thought Scoochie would be way more talented. One of the guys from Northland would be way more talented. etc.

I guess the biggest part that frustrates me are the high school and lower type mistakes that are repeated on a consistent basis.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny View Post
Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.
How do I know you haven't seen Steve play? Ummm...how do I put this? Big Steve ain't Irish

Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 03-01-2014 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:56 AM
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I don't think it is just talent. None of our bad losses were to teams with better talent. Richmond and St Joes don't have better talent. In Maui, we didn't look like we had worse talent.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:58 AM
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UMass has a bunch of tall guys that can play. Flyers have maybe one
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:27 PM
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This thread is really amusing to read after the game.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:33 PM
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UD has good talent but not St. Louis or VCU talent. UD is short in talent in a couple of places.

I disagree about coaching. The players know the system and roles. They don't execute at time such as St. Joes. Today, their execution was better and they held their own against the UMass big men.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny View Post
We have very few players who actually have basketball talent. A prime example is Devon Scott. Big body, strong, but no real offensive skills and a hack on defense. Doesn't box out well, can't guard post moves, and has no offensive IQ. I have never seen a big guy get his shot blocked so much.
Scoochie, quick, good handle, terrible passer and can't shoot. Is this going to get better? It hasn't ever got better that I can remember except for two guys, CJ and Brian Roberts.
Jalen, regressed and a non factor. Alex, non factor. Pollard, tremendous athlete, no offensive skills. Khari? Playing with an eighty year old body apparently. Vee, terrible decision after terrible decision.
All the while, Archie claps and stomps his feet, grimaces, and really for the most part looks lost. You recruited many of these guys.

So at the end of the day, unless there is an infusion of actual basketball talent, this program is going nowhere.

Pierre is not going to be able to carry this team without a PG and a post, and recruit Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.
Debbie Downer

We had 5 guys in double figures . . .
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:48 PM
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Even when we win we lose!!!

Some of you guys are "trippin"
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
How do I know you haven't seen Steve play? Ummm...how do I put this? Big Steve ain't Irish


BGame knows everything Swampy...
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny View Post
We have very few players who actually have basketball talent. A prime example is Devon Scott. Big body, strong, but no real offensive skills and a hack on defense. Doesn't box out well, can't guard post moves, and has no offensive IQ. I have never seen a big guy get his shot blocked so much.
Scoochie, quick, good handle, terrible passer and can't shoot. Is this going to get better? It hasn't ever got better that I can remember except for two guys, CJ and Brian Roberts.
Jalen, regressed and a non factor. Alex, non factor. Pollard, tremendous athlete, no offensive skills. Khari? Playing with an eighty year old body apparently. Vee, terrible decision after terrible decision.
All the while, Archie claps and stomps his feet, grimaces, and really for the most part looks lost. You recruited many of these guys.

So at the end of the day, unless there is an infusion of actual basketball talent, this program is going nowhere.

Pierre is not going to be able to carry this team without a PG and a post, and recruit Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.
So how do those words taste now?
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:55 PM
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if Jalen played with the energy he showed today he could be a force. Today he was physical and chased rebounds.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
I don't think it is just talent. None of our bad losses were to teams with better talent. Richmond and St Joes don't have better talent. In Maui, we didn't look like we had worse talent.
The BIGS on all those teams and many more are far more talented, better athletes, and better BB players. Therein lie your difference.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCFLYER View Post
So how do those words taste now?
Let's at least see this team go to St.Louis and play a hell of a game, win or lose, before acting like all is well.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:49 PM
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Are we 20-9 or 9-20???
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Ummm...how do I put this? Big Steve ain't Irish
I have to admit, I had this stereotypical image in my head of what Steve looked like (freckly red head, don't ask me why). I looked at a photo a few weeks ago of him and he is not at all of that image I had. He is one large looking dude.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:52 PM
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UD has to make up for not having all-stars at a few spots at times by playing hard and out working the other guy.

Our post play is suspect at times, but our ability to stop ball on the perimeter is as well. When we out work teams, these two areas are well hidden. Today was the perfect example.

I am happy with the level of talent that this team has when they work their butts off. Some teams get by being lazy because of talent...this team has to make up for not being as good as some others at certain positions.

When this team plays aggressive, on D and O, IMO, they can beat almost anyone. Today UMass threw 4 big post players at us all day long...we dealt with it. Williams is a very good player, and he could have gone off for 30, but was kept at his average. He forced a ton and was shut down for the most part. Kav worked his tail off on the boards. And we overcome some of the worst officiating I have ever seen...the blew a whistle at every run UD had.

Play like we did today, sans free throws, we make a game out of SLU. Play like we did today, we don't get beat in the first round of the A10.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:53 PM
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I remember when we signed up Keith Waleskowski and i thought, "Great, another Alter stiff to help out Petrocelli"

I remember that turning out really well
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:59 PM
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If Jalen would put in the work to increase his strength and play with energy every night he could be one of the better bigs in the league. Has the talent, how bad does he want it?
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:22 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Ummm...how do I put this? Big Steve ain't Irish

And BallgameJohnny ain't playin' with a full deck

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Old 03-01-2014, 04:08 PM
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I wish Robinson would learn to put it "up" on the glass a little bit more. His flat trajectory shots just beg to be blocked by anyone in the area. I mean, does it count less than two points if you use the top of the box?

I also think next year is going to be the start of a new era for UD in the post. For once we have a genuine big. He may take a while to develop, and that's where Robinson, Scott and Gavs come in. But I think we'll have turned a corner with a genuine 7' in the lane.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
UD has to make up for not having all-stars at a few spots at times by playing hard and out working the other guy.

Our post play is suspect at times, but our ability to stop ball on the perimeter is as well. When we out work teams, these two areas are well hidden. Today was the perfect example.

I am happy with the level of talent that this team has when they work their butts off. Some teams get by being lazy because of talent...this team has to make up for not being as good as some others at certain positions.

When this team plays aggressive, on D and O, IMO, they can beat almost anyone. Today UMass threw 4 big post players at us all day long...we dealt with it. Williams is a very good player, and he could have gone off for 30, but was kept at his average. He forced a ton and was shut down for the most part. Kav worked his tail off on the boards. And we overcome some of the worst officiating I have ever seen...the blew a whistle at every run UD had.

Play like we did today, sans free throws, we make a game out of SLU. Play like we did today, we don't get beat in the first round of the A10.
I agree with these comments. There are only two things that keep UD from being in the top 2-3 spots in the league.
1) Post play
2) Perimeter defense
Thus 6 place in the league, while a winning record right now!

The team has good offense skills. Sibert can light them up. DMO might be as close to the most complete player in the league. Vee and Pierre can shoot and score.

Talent can often mean across the board or just lacking 1-2 players. The best example is when you have your 4 jumping center every night against their 5, you are already admitting the weaknesses of your 5 spot. That speaks volumes. UD has good talent, but where it is lacking, it is glaring...

IMO if Scott had stepped up and played to his potential, this discussion might be different. Physically, he is the best 5 on the team. But he plays in a fog, fouls, turns it over etc. He had a chance to easily wrestle the starting job away from Kav when Kav was struggling.

Kav and Robinson did a very good job against the UMass front line today. That enabled the win to happen.

I hope the 5 spot plays their best game of the season against St. Louis. That is the only way in which UD would have a chance to win.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
How do I know you haven't seen Steve play? Ummm...how do I put this? Big Steve ain't Irish
I should have made the statement different, I know what color Steve is, what I was saying is that he is built in the same slow, not very athletic, mold as the big men UD has been getting for 30 years minus maybe 3 I can think of off the top of my head.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NYCFLYER View Post
So how do those words taste now?
IT wasnt even about this game, it is about every season of the flyers in the last I don't know how many years. Great we beat UMASS at home, I am very happy for that. I don't put on blinders and think this is a NCAA worthy team.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:33 PM
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Funny how things change...when it's about the blow out loss at St. Joe's we need to ignore it because it's just one game...but when it's a win vs UMass we need to ignore everything else for this 1 game.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:46 PM
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I think many on here need to learn to enjoy life more. Amazed at some of the comments that have been posted in the different threads today.

LIFE IS FOR LIVING, you all need to try to enjoy it more!
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  #28  
Old 03-01-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I think many on here need to learn to enjoy life more. Amazed at some of the comments that have been posted in the different threads today.

LIFE IS FOR LIVING, you all need to try to enjoy it more!
This site does provide a lot of comic relief.
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  #29  
Old 03-01-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
This site does provide a lot of comic relief.
I used to consider it comic relief too, but it is to the point of just being flat out pathetic whining.

Oh well, time for date night with the hottest wife on here
I am her comic relief!
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Funny how things change...when it's about the blow out loss at St. Joe's we need to ignore it because it's just one game...but when it's a win vs UMass we need to ignore everything else for this 1 game.
IMO, I don't read anybody ignoring anything...I disagree with your post...after losses some posters on here go overboard IMO, people post: archie sucks, the players suck, the program sucks, ud sucks, the city of dayton/the dayton area sucks, there is no hope that this program is ever going to get better, there is no hope that archie is going to improve things so let's fire him, etc., did i leave anything out?

Conversely, I think most on here are pretty realistic after wins.
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  #31  
Old 03-02-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
UD has to make up for not having all-stars at a few spots at times by playing hard and out working the other guy.

Our post play is suspect at times, but our ability to stop ball on the perimeter is as well. When we out work teams, these two areas are well hidden. Today was the perfect example.

I am happy with the level of talent that this team has when they work their butts off. Some teams get by being lazy because of talent...this team has to make up for not being as good as some others at certain positions.

When this team plays aggressive, on D and O, IMO, they can beat almost anyone. Today UMass threw 4 big post players at us all day long...we dealt with it. Williams is a very good player, and he could have gone off for 30, but was kept at his average. He forced a ton and was shut down for the most part. Kav worked his tail off on the boards. And we overcome some of the worst officiating I have ever seen...the blew a whistle at every run UD had.

Play like we did today, sans free throws, we make a game out of SLU. Play like we did today, we don't get beat in the first round of the A10.
I think this is an accurate representation of the current state of affairs...this is what is so maddening about this team: if they play hard consistently, they can beat a lot of teams.
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny View Post
We have very few players who actually have basketball talent. A prime example is Devon Scott. Big body, strong, but no real offensive skills and a hack on defense. Doesn't box out well, can't guard post moves, and has no offensive IQ. I have never seen a big guy get his shot blocked so much.
Scoochie, quick, good handle, terrible passer and can't shoot. Is this going to get better? It hasn't ever got better that I can remember except for two guys, CJ and Brian Roberts.
Jalen, regressed and a non factor. Alex, non factor. Pollard, tremendous athlete, no offensive skills. Khari? Playing with an eighty year old body apparently. Vee, terrible decision after terrible decision.
All the while, Archie claps and stomps his feet, grimaces, and really for the most part looks lost. You recruited many of these guys.

So at the end of the day, unless there is an infusion of actual basketball talent, this program is going nowhere.

Pierre is not going to be able to carry this team without a PG and a post, and recruit Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.
these are valid concerns, but, things can get better...this is only am's 3rd year...give it some more time....some guys take longer to develop...am may still be changing the culture of this program...culture change is not easy...am may still be learning/maturing as a coach...did you realistically, and be totally honest here, think this team would have 20 wins right now and have a shot at the dance right now?

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  #33  
Old 03-02-2014, 12:01 PM
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  #34  
Old 03-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
these are valid concerns, but, things can get better...this is only am's 3rd year...give it some more time....some guys take longer to develop...am may still be changing the culture of this program...culture change is not easy...am may still be learning/maturing as a coach...did you realistically, and be totally honest here, think this team would have 20 wins right now and have a shot at the dance right now?
Yep. There was also a 6 player swing when AM took over. Lost 2 key players from BG's squad, lost 2 recruits with one a stud in Henton, and had to take AG and Price, two kids who never would have been offered in normal situations. Lost an entire class of mature leadership, as well, that would have bridged the young guys both from last year and this year....
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
IMO, I don't read anybody ignoring anything...I disagree with your post...after losses some posters on here go overboard IMO, people post: archie sucks, the players suck, the program sucks, ud sucks, the city of dayton/the dayton area sucks, there is no hope that this program is ever going to get better, there is no hope that archie is going to improve things so let's fire him, etc., did i leave anything out?

Conversely, I think most on here are pretty realistic after wins.
Agreed. After a loss there are a few on here who want the coach fired or say we are terrible. You need to put everything in context. We have won 7 of 8 games coming down the stretch and have 20 wins and are in the top 50 RPI. The fact that we have a decent shot of an at large bid speaks for itself.
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  #36  
Old 03-02-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Agreed. After a loss there are a few on here who want the coach fired or say we are terrible. You need to put everything in context. We have won 7 of 8 games coming down the stretch and have 20 wins and are in the top 50 RPI. The fact that we have a decent shot of an at large bid speaks for itself.
And some are saying that even if we get an at-large bid it has been a mediocre season and we have little to celebrate.
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  #37  
Old 03-02-2014, 03:44 PM
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Trivia Time

Name the last UD Coach to take his team to any post season tourney in his third season?

Name the last UD Coach to even have a winning record in his third season?

AM was tasked with basically starting over after losing 2 recruiting classes, excluding DMO.

Yes, we choked away a few games we should have won. Yes it sucks being on the outside of the bubble as of todays date. Yes it would be nice if we had the nice smooth transitition from coach to coach that Butler enjoyed (prior to this season). However, the last coach we had that had any success in his third season was Don Donoher back in 1966-1967, so DD is the answer to both questions above.

I still think Archie has us on the right track. Very few programs have a smooth transition from coach to coach.
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  #38  
Old 03-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
And some are saying that even if we get an at-large bid it has been a mediocre season and we have little to celebrate.
Why is it that if UD makes the dance, then UD didn't deserve it. But, if all of these other bubble teams make the dance, they then do deserve it? Why is UD the only one that doesn't deserve an invite? This rationale really bothers me.

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Why is it that if UD makes the dance, then UD didn't deserve it. But, if all of these other bubble teams make the dance, they then do deserve it? Why is UD the only one that doesn't deserve an invite? This rationale really bothers me.
Those are a few depressed trouble makers trying to stir the pot. Most people picked UD for 7th in the A10 and no bid, so great achievement if they make it. Also we should not pay attention to the people who say the field and bubble teams are weaker this year. Total nonsense. Think back 10 and 20 years as to how weak some of the D1 teams were. Those 300+ teams today are very competitive. There are more and better high school players, and year round AAU has changed the landscape to more and better basketball.
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  #40  
Old 03-03-2014, 11:32 AM
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As the official spokesperson for the Flyers Forever Optimist Club, why is it that those who choose to type what all of us are thinking are somehow considered negative, depressed and blah, blah, blah....by those who chose to only type polyanna-ish comments?

I choose to accept and respect all opinions and, at the same time, share mine openly. At a minimum, it makes for good conversation.

Honesty is the best policy. Embrace it.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:41 AM
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As the official spokesperson for the Flyers Forever Optimist Club, why is it that those who choose to type what all of us are thinking are somehow considered negative, depressed and blah, blah, blah....by those who chose to only type polyanna-ish comments?

I choose accept and respect all opinions and, at the same time, share mine openly. At a minimum, it makes for good conversation.

Honesty is the best policy. Embrace it.
???

"...what all of us are thinking..."?

I've never thought that if UD makes the dance this year, that UD didn't deserve the invite. If UD makes the dance, then they deserved the invite, period. No exceptions. You don't have to be perfect to get a bid, you just have to be good enough.
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  #43  
Old 03-03-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BallgameJohnny View Post
and recruit Big Steve is just another in the long line of slow big white guys UD has had with no real skills.

Big lol. You completely discredited yourself on this last sentence.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As the official spokesperson for the Flyers Forever Optimist Club, why is it that those who choose to type what all of us are thinking are somehow considered negative, depressed and blah, blah, blah....by those who chose to only type polyanna-ish comments?

I choose accept and respect all opinions and, at the same time, share mine openly. At a minimum, it makes for good conversation.

Honesty is the best policy. Embrace it.
It's about being consistent, and realistic. When we play like junk it's certainly OK to state so (St Joes game), but when we are playing well like winning 7 of 8 games you acknowledge it. Also, the crazy "sky is falling" after one loss is silly. It is a long season with ups and downs for all teams. You just hope ypu have more ups than downs. perspective is a good thing.
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  #45  
Old 03-03-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
It's about being consistent, and realistic. When we play like junk it's certainly OK to state so (St Joes game), but when we are playing well like winning 7 of 8 games you acknowledge it. Also, the crazy "sky is falling" after one loss is silly. It is a long season with ups and downs for all teams. You just hope ypu have more ups than downs. perspective is a good thing.
It's a great feeling to see and hear a student become the teacher.

Class....dismissed!
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:23 PM
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This year the Flyers have been one of the most consistently inconsistent teams in NCAA Div 1.

On a given day they can upset anyone, and the next day they can lose to a +150 RPI team and look bad doing it.

Is it any wonder Flyer fans are......what's the word.....bewildered.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
This year the Flyers have been one of the most consistently inconsistent teams in NCAA Div 1.

On a given day they can upset anyone, and the next day they can lose to a +150 RPI team and look bad doing it.

Is it any wonder Flyer fans are......what's the word.....bewildered.
Don't disagree about the Flyers, but it appears this year more than ever teams have taken "rollo" coaster rides: tOSU, Baylor, Ok St, UCLA, Mich St, UNC...even Syracuse was two questionable calls (NC St, Maryland) away from dropping their last 6 games, with one being at home to a bad BC team.
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  #48  
Old 03-03-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As the official spokesperson for the Flyers Forever Optimist Club, why is it that those who choose to type what all of us are thinking are somehow considered negative, depressed and blah, blah, blah....by those who chose to only type polyanna-ish comments?

I choose accept and respect all opinions and, at the same time, share mine openly. At a minimum, it makes for good conversation.

Honesty is the best policy. Embrace it.
Great to hear that from now on you are going to accept all opinions. Soon we can get you to agree with all of them.
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  #49  
Old 03-03-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Great to hear that from now on you are going to accept all opinions. Soon we can get you to agree with all of them.
As long as I can agree you're right...or I can agree you're wrong I'll be more than happy to agree with you.
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  #50  
Old 03-03-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As long as I can agree you're right...or I can agree you're wrong I'll be more than happy to agree with you.
game, match and set!
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  #51  
Old 03-03-2014, 06:41 PM
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game, match, set...???

I prefer 1....2.....3.....PIN!


or as you put it...1....3....PIN....2!
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  #52  
Old 03-06-2014, 08:37 AM
BallgameJohnny BallgameJohnny is offline
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I will gladly eat some crow, I didnt think this team had the talent to beat that team on the road. I have no problem being wrong, and it was nice to see some players do some things last night they hadnt done all year. Huge win!
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  #53  
Old 03-06-2014, 08:47 AM
Hyde Park Flyer Hyde Park Flyer is offline
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Last night turned on Scoochie and Pollard. While they didn't carry the team, they played critical roles as freshmen. They played their best games of the year against an extremely tough defensive team.
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  #54  
Old 03-06-2014, 08:50 AM
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This team has solid (not superstar) talent at every position except the 5. We need a solid JUCO 5 for next year in case Big Steve needs some time to develop. If we had a 5 as good as our other positions on this team we would have been in the top 25 all year.
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