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  #1301  
Old 06-30-2022, 03:32 PM
Medford Medford is online now
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So more people are now saying this is all but a "done deal" and expect a presser in the next 24-48 hours.


Color me skeptical, and I shudder that this is just another dart thrown at schools like UD were football doesn't reign supreme, but lets play along for poops and laughs..


Why stop at 16, seems logical that USC and UCLA will need partners our west to manage their Olympic sports. Keeping with the AAU preference that is the BIG, add Colorado, Arizona, Washington and Oregon to a 6 team west pod that now jumps the conference up to 20 teams. Then we'll form a midwest Pod, add Kansas to Nebraska, Wisky, Minny, and Northwestern and now you are at 21 teams. Then we will move to the "north" division, IU, Purdue, OSU, Mich, MSU and Illinois form this pod. Finally, we need some partners in the South/East pod to join Penn State, Maryland & Rutgers so lets go digging in the often rumored ACC pond and add North Carolina, Virginia and GTech.


Intriguing for sure. anything close to reality? Who knows, 2 hours ago I would have laughed if some stranger swore USC and UCLA were joining the B10. And whatever happened to that BIG, P12, ACC alliance thing?


Does the SEC expand more coast to coast as well? Not sure who is left to grab that would intrigue them. Florida St, Arizona St? Do they try and jump at teams like Arizona or GTech or UNC before the B1G does?
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  #1302  
Old 06-30-2022, 03:35 PM
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@NicoleAuerbach
Just got off the phone with someone who believes this eventually leads to two megaconferences — the Big Ten and SEC — with 20 or more members apiece.

College football writer for The Athletic
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  #1303  
Old 06-30-2022, 04:33 PM
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@Brett_McMurphy
USC & UCLA move to Big Ten should be completed by Friday & Big Ten may not stop at 16, sources told
@ActionNetworkHQ
. Big 12 may get aggressive & look to add Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado & Utah. “We’re headed to super conferences,” source said
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  #1304  
Old 06-30-2022, 08:01 PM
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The deed is done https://www.espn.com/college-sports/...pac-12-big-ten. Don’t sleep on Clemson, Florida State or U of Miami joining the B1G to cover the entire country like the NFL.
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  #1305  
Old 06-30-2022, 08:05 PM
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We've jumped the shark.
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  #1306  
Old 06-30-2022, 09:22 PM
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The end result of this fault line crumbling could be the end of the line for UD basketball in NCAA tournaments. It may take another 10 years but I can see a future where the “power 4” have their own tournament.

Football drives all of this. If this is the future it’s imperative UD align with Big East members (+ Gonzaga). It may be the only avenue left to get a seat at the table.
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  #1307  
Old 06-30-2022, 09:30 PM
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Reports Oregon and Washington both applied to the Big 10 and may be in by the end of tonight
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  #1308  
Old 06-30-2022, 09:34 PM
Monster Man Monster Man is offline
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Big money and power is ruining college sports.
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  #1309  
Old 07-01-2022, 01:14 AM
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Somehow, I can't help but feel that when the Carthage Gladiator League merged with the Gaul Gladiator League, that was the end of the Roman Republic.
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  #1310  
Old 07-01-2022, 08:22 AM
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It feels like two earthquakes are happening simultaneously to change CBB dramatically. You have the NIL stuff happening, changing the recruiting situation, and now, it looks like we have a complete revamp of league affiliation on the brink. I'm not sure where this ends up, but those are two very powerful forces. Money changes everything......
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  #1311  
Old 07-01-2022, 09:17 AM
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Hearing the ACC is looking at UConn now.
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  #1312  
Old 07-01-2022, 09:35 AM
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Question PAC-?

Just broke that USC and UCLA will head to the Big10. So, now, the Oregon Ducks are in a dilemma: stay in what could be in a weakened conference, or go with them.
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  #1313  
Old 07-01-2022, 09:51 AM
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It was reported that the B10 was ready to sign a TV rights package for 1 very large BILLION. But did not hear over what period of time. All about FB and $$$ nothing more, nothing less.

To indicate how much that $1B means to just ONE conference, the TV rights to broadcast the whole NCAA BB Tournament (covering all the D1 conferences and 68 teams) was $1B IIRC.

Putting that in perspective, if the B10 goes to 20 members (there is already some talk about that happening) that ONE BILLION over 20 members is (if I can calculate correctly ) a cool $50M each.

Not bad for coaches and staff salaries. And to think the NIL money flowing in to the athletes means that the schools need to cover all expenses for the support of the teams (scholly, Room & Board) is less of an impact on other finances.

I would think the next shoe to fall is that (sans NCAA) that a certain level of NIL earnings will be used to pay for attending those schools. After all they will be getting paid for their talents related to Name Image Likeness
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  #1314  
Old 07-01-2022, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by OregonMike View Post
Just broke that USC and UCLA will head to the Big10. So, now, the Oregon Ducks are in a dilemma: stay in what could be in a weakened conference, or go with them.

Perhaps a merger: the remains of the Big12 and the remains of the Pac12.

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  #1315  
Old 07-01-2022, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Perhaps a merger: the remains of the Big12 and the remains of the Pac12.

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BIG looking to take a couple more PAC teams and will probably also get ND and a 2-3 ACC teams. The landscape had this feel even 3-4 years ago and felt like there would be no more than 3 super conferences in the next 5-10 years but it's happening even sooner.
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  #1316  
Old 07-01-2022, 07:36 PM
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It seems like everything rests on Notre Dame. I heard on 97.1 the fan Columbus this afternoon that basically the Big Ten is pausing all applications until Notre Dame makes a decision. They of course have that bill of rights issue for the ACC until 2036, but I have a feeling Notre Dame will argue things have dramatically changed since that was signed. Also something to watch, NBC is poised to be part of the big 10 deal, so in theory, perhaps they fold the Notre Dame home games into that package?
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  #1317  
Old 07-01-2022, 11:03 PM
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Ive followed ND football for 35yrs so here's my 2 cents.

The amount of ad revenue and TV eyeballs Notre Dame brings dwarfs every other program in the Big10. ND games routinely score the highest marks on network and cable TV every year and thats even when ND has had "meh" seasons. Comes down to one simple reason: half the country tunes in to see the Irish win and the other half is tuning in just to see them lose. No other brand -- Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Texas, etc -- is more polarizing across all 50 states and drives such opinionated response. Whether thats good, bad, indifferent, justified, or unjustified doesn't matter. Notre Dame has always been a ratings goldmine.

Ive read numbers that ND's ACC exit penalty could be as much as $150M (it supposedly also has a clause that states if ND joins a league for football it MUST be the ACC so that might trigger additional fines). They could conceivably earn all of that back in 1.5 years in the Big10 however as I'm hearing $1B TV contract numbers. The NBC contract ends in 2025 I believe and its a paltry $25M/yr. Thirty years ago when ND signed with NBC it was a windfall profit people couldn't even wrap their heads around -- how could anyone compete with that? Now its costing the Irish $40-70M a year.

There is bad blood between the Big10 and ND going back to Fielding Yost all but nixing at least two attempts by ND to join the Big10 with the support of most of the other institutions already in hand. In the 1980s there was a movement by the Big10 to reach out to ND and ND remembered the past and told them to go pound sand. They eventually gobbled up Penn State instead. But 2022 is a different time and all those people that held grudges back then are six feet under.

The Big10 would never allow ND to be a partial football member, though ND would retain their non-negotiable game vs USC as it would now be a league game. But they also have non-negotiables with Stanford and Navy. With a league this big it could pose some scheduling challenges and non-con limitations where ND would more or less play within the same pool of 20 teams every year and that's not something they want to easily do away with. They also have the Shamrock Series which plays at Yankee Stadium, Dublin Ireland, etc. They place a high value on diverse schedules and already have home/home contracts in place with Texas A&M, Arkansas, etc, along with one-time games with BYU, Cal, and others.

AD Jack Swarbrick is a smart guy and one of the most respected leaders in terms of running an athletic program. He knows everybody -- and everybody knows him. Purely for money and geographic fit the Big10 makes the most sense. They've played the likes of Michigan, Purdue, and Michigan States for 100 years. They used to play Penn State all the time as independents. Its the natural move and would also make travel easier. Obviously they are now in a home/home with Ohio State beginning this year in Columbus.

Notre Dame really likes what the ACC provides however in terms of climate and reaching the southern recruiting states. The Olympics sports hold a strategic advantage playing in the ACC during the cold early spring and late fall months and that's a big selling point for those programs. Additionally, the ACC is a modestly better academic fit with Duke, Wake, Virginia, Va Tech, and Miami among others that are high academic institutions. Getting those southern football recruits is also a big plus as ND already has the Midwest footprint covered. But it poses more travel considerations because you're not busing anywhere and the money is not great. ND football plays an abbreviated 5-game ACC schedule. But other than Clemson right now there's not a ton going on. Miami, FSU, Va Tech, are all pretty milktoast at the moment. UNC and NC State are hit-or-miss. And with the Big10 adding USC and UCLA -- one of the Top-5 football brands (USC) and an absolute powerhouse athletic department (UCLA), ND could stand to lose if they choose to stay put because the ACC is going to continue to get more marginalized. It only gets worse if UW and UO somehow talk their way into the Big10. Plus USC and UCLA's Olympic sports massively upgrade the Big10 and ND places a high value on their Olympic sports.

If the Big10 continues to expand and gobble up more Pac12 schools like Colorado, Utah, and Arizona, then ND's commitment to national reach would be largely satisfied.

I really dont know what ND will do. For decades I said they valued their football independence too much and even now despite the chaos they have the #2 and #1 football recruiting classes for 2023 and 2024 so they are doing just fine. But its less about now and more about what things will look like in 5-10-20 years. I liken it to Dayton valuing independence too much and watching teams like Xavier join conferences, caulk their hulls, and become a bigger and better brand.

I've read a couple articles suggesting ND could join the SEC but its a terrible academic fit. Michigan, Rutgers, NWestern and a cpl others do just enough to keep ND happy.

No matter what happens to ND, more schools will continue to scramble because even movement like TX and OK to the SEC was seen as striking but within the bounds of reason. But USC and UCLA to the Big10 breaks all prior covenants of tradition, geography, and precedent. We are headed to 2-3 Super Conferences and perhaps also tiered hierarchies -- either explicit or implicit without saying the obvious part out loud. Other football schools like UNLV, San Diego State, Wyoming, Colorado State, Western Michigan etc will be disposed of in all practicality.

What's that mean for the basketball-only schools? Well it's not great because the distance between the haves- and have-nots in hoops will continue to widen because of the money discrepancy generated from football. When a Big10 school can earn more in one season from conference network TV money than UD can spend on its entire athletic department in 7-10 years, its a problem of competitive advantage -- and we haven't even discussed NIL yet and its moral hazards. There may end up being the same unspoken class divisions in basketball too -- unsaid but still there. Even schools like Gonzaga and Villanova may feel the pinch of being forced to play hoops with 1/10th the war chest. If there's any silver lining, its that we've seen basketball is a sport where the marginalized teams can often punch above their weight class and still make noise: Butler, Mason, VCU, Wichita, Loyola, Dayton, Gonzaga, SMC, Xavier, etc. But these are albatrosses and you need the stars align to get the traction you want.

The USC/UCLA move was in my opinion the beginning of the end of 75 years of traditional footprints, rivalries, and loyalties. It's all about chasing the benjamins now and every chess move will necessitate a counter-move that may have to defy convention to keep yourself in the game.
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  #1318  
Old 07-02-2022, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Ive followed ND football for 35yrs so here's my 2 cents.

The amount of ad revenue and TV eyeballs Notre Dame brings dwarfs every other program in the Big10. ND games routinely score the highest marks on network and cable TV every year and thats even when ND has had "meh" seasons. Comes down to one simple reason: half the country tunes in to see the Irish win and the other half is tuning in just to see them lose. No other brand -- Ohio State, Alabama, USC, Texas, etc -- is more polarizing across all 50 states and drives such opinionated response. Whether thats good, bad, indifferent, justified, or unjustified doesn't matter. Notre Dame has always been a ratings goldmine.
Maybe in the 80's through 2000's, but that is not the case anymore. ND was 9th this year in average viewers per game. https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-...1-49ef4f315858 This past year, they were closer in weekly viewers with Navy, than they were with OSU, Alabama, and Michigan.

From 2015-2019, ND was 4th. https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-...s-efc03c689e50 ND is becoming more and more irrelevant because of being able to see all the national brands each week. When it was ND and maybe a couple other games, ND was exactly how you described them, but that hasn't been the case the last 10-15 years. When I was in high school in the early 2000's each week, I knew who ND played because of them being on NBC each week. With ESPN, FOX, FS1, BIG10 SEC, ACC, CBS, ABC, CBS Sports, all showing games and streaming games each week, you can watch your favorite team each week. You aren't just stuck with NBC ND game, ABC Big10 Game, CBS SEC game each week.

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Old 07-02-2022, 11:26 AM
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I believe Eagle is right re: Notre Dame TV ratings. Here's a site, if you're willing to scroll, that breaks down the highest-rated games of every week last season. https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/col...ll-tv-ratings/
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Old 07-02-2022, 11:42 AM
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Also re: Notre Dame and an academic fit, the Big Ten schools are no slouches (even better with the addition of UCLA and USC). The ACC has several strong institutions, but the Big Ten is solid on the undergraduate front too, and they're all huge research universities that drive millions and billions in R&D.
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:36 PM
Hyde Park Flyer Hyde Park Flyer is offline
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The Big10 is a great fit for some non-football/basketball (not necessarily Olympic) sports. The Big10 is now a better lacrosse conference than the ACC. Notre Dame already plays in the Big10 hockey conference. Notre Dame excels in both of those sports. USC and UCLA will add to the traditional Olympic sports depth. The Big10 has had national champions in many of the sports over the last 12 years, but there are definitely some sports where the Big10 lags behind other conferences (baseball, women’s track, etc). The Big10 does have the resources to dominate sports however.
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Old 07-03-2022, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Maybe in the 80's through 2000's, but that is not the case anymore. ND was 9th this year in average viewers per game. https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-...1-49ef4f315858 This past year, they were closer in weekly viewers with Navy, than they were with OSU, Alabama, and Michigan.

From 2015-2019, ND was 4th. https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-...s-efc03c689e50 ND is becoming more and more irrelevant because of being able to see all the national brands each week. When it was ND and maybe a couple other games, ND was exactly how you described them, but that hasn't been the case the last 10-15 years. When I was in high school in the early 2000's each week, I knew who ND played because of them being on NBC each week. With ESPN, FOX, FS1, BIG10 SEC, ACC, CBS, ABC, CBS Sports, all showing games and streaming games each week, you can watch your favorite team each week. You aren't just stuck with NBC ND game, ABC Big10 Game, CBS SEC game each week.
I will concede those numbers but they lack quite a bit of context:

- Last year's ND schedule was garbage because the bellcow marquee TV opponents like FSU and USC were garbage. Normally those would be ratings gold but ND cant do anything about them stinking. UNC faded as usual and Stanford aint what they used to be. Even Wisconsin which is often 2nd best in the Big10 was up and down.

- Clemson was not on the schedule last year.

- Michigan has not been on the schedule since 2019 and thats one of the top TV games annually.

- The viewing numbers include streaming which is where ND takes another hit. NBC streams their home games but that means half the schedule is in the black hole. In the Big10 and SEC however 80% of the schedule is in their streaming wheelhouse whether they are playing at home or away because its league games. It also helps compound viewership.

- ND doesnt play in a conference championship game.

If you put ND on a rotating basis with OSU, Michigan, PSU, USC, and maybe even Nebraska it will pull mongo numbers - providing USC rights the ship and PSU picks it up a bit. Nebraska has the national support but not the competitiveness.

In any case the bottom line is if ND wants to go somewhere, they will land on their feet. Its just one more domino that will eventually trickle down to the Daytons of the world once the dust settles. It may take several moves to get there, but there's no stopping this Cabbage Bus to the stack of $80-100M annual paydays. But it may also affects the Kansas and Wake Forests of the world that have never been known for football and are largely unwanted for football but offer other things. Will those other things be enough however? Lawrence Kansas and Winston-Salem NC are not exactly NY/NJ like Rutgers. Football is going to steer everything....there's a reason why the Big10 is considering Oregon and Washington and not Kansas or Arizona. That should scare schools like Kansas and Arizona.
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Old 07-04-2022, 05:00 PM
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I think we have finally reached the point where there is an acknowledgement that unless you are one of about 20 may be 30 programs, your college football program is not championship viable. I’ll list them by current affiliation.
ACC
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Virginia Tech
Big10
Iowa
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin
Big12
Baylor
Oklahoma
Texas
Pac12
Oregon
UCLA
USC
Washington
SEC
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Texas A&M
Independent
Notre Dame
I had to reach for about three or four of these. if I’m the ACC, Pac 12, and some of these conferences like the mountain west or American, to save my other sports, I would try to find someway to separate college football out and let a super league develop with these 23-ish schools. You will notice, some large blue bloods of basketball, duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, Purdue, never mind teams in the big east or Gonzaga, are very interested in keeping the NCAA tournament as is. too much conference realignment will hurt them. Summary, treat football almost like what hockey used to be, and just let teams join all kinds of conferences for that. Yes you’re right steel for basketball will not be as big, but it may save you more money in the end, otherwise, you have nothing.
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Old 07-04-2022, 05:46 PM
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Ferd, the hard part about making these delineations is determining which on-the-rise football programs will devote enough resources to stay there (Cincy, Utah, Okla St, etc.), and which previous powers will bounce back from current struggles (Texas, UCLA, etc.). How would you have teams be promoted to, or relegated from, this football super league as their success waxes or wanes? I would suggest at the moment, Clemson's the only ACC school that fits the rest of your list. Based just on results, there are 6-7 programs that separated themselves the past five years (Bama, Ga, OSU, Clemson, Okla, ND). After that, there are a bunch of good teams (LSU, Michigan, Cincy, A&M, Oregon, Iowa, Wisconsin, Okla St, Utah, BYU ...... Florida, Kentucky, Michigan St, Minnesota, Baylor), and some recently struggling powers (Penn St, USC, Texas). Hard to know what that will look like in five years, as programs go through ups and downs, largely tied to good and bad coaching hires.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:28 AM
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I would love for there to be European style soccer relegation for teams. Hell I would love to see that in the Atlantic 10! What I see stopping a model like that is teams will complain that if they are relegated to a second tier for two years, that will kill their recruiting/N I L. Also, as long as traditional cable is involved, you get into the issue of media markets. What does the Big Ten do when they realize Rutgers and Maryland, basically tied to TV markets New York and DC, will likely never be in that top level. Networks will not pay top level rates for those markets. Now, as we move toward streaming platforms, that all changes because market size doesn’t matter.
I’ve listened to a couple influential voices save it maybe this in fact just creates football only conferences and then we figure out other things for Olympic sports. That’s personally where I see us in 10 or 15 years. But what will the carnage be between now and then? Tangentially, where will college as an industry be in 10 or 15 years? I’m hearing lots of talk and quite frankly fear about what’s being referred to as the enrollment Cliff. People started having way fewer kids about 15 years ago. Colleges are depending on revenue targets from tuition and fees to stay viable. couple that with kids coming into college with their associates degrees because they now have that option in high schools to do both. No state institution is going to flat out reject peoples credit hours because the politicians who are so proud of putting these programs in place would go nuts. Private institutions like ours have a bit more leeway in that regard. All of that to say, buckle up because what we knew is college sports or even college, will not be the same in short order.
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Old 07-05-2022, 10:20 AM
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Ferd just touched on something that the admin surely knows: UD is in trouble not just with athletics. If you've sent a kid off to college in the last few years, you know what a fustercluck the whole admissions process is, and not just because of Covid. The top students in this country have data available to them so that they know who the top 20 schools are for the discipline they want to study. And the ease of applying to schools is so easy now, that it's not uncommon for a kid to apply to 20+ schools. In our time, we had little data available to us so if you were from Ohio or went to a Catholic HS in the midwest, Dayton was known and a good choice. You applied to maybe 3 regional schools and that was it. Many of you were probably top students in your day. You went to UD and thought little of it. Today? UD isn't even getting applications from those students or if you are from OH it's your ultra safety(yes, an uncomfortable truth). Our kid applied to 10 schools, including UD only as a courtesy to their parents. UD ended up being the cheapest option at the end of the day due to all the money UD threw at them(even cheaper than in-state schools). But they were never going to UD. UD was only on the list for them because Dad was an alumnus. This is a reality for UD and will only get worse in the future. The implications of this are many and not positive for UD. What's happening on the sports front is also happening on the academic front.
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Old 07-05-2022, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 301Lowes View Post
Ferd just touched on something that the admin surely knows: UD is in trouble not just with athletics. If you've sent a kid off to college in the last few years, you know what a fustercluck the whole admissions process is, and not just because of Covid. The top students in this country have data available to them so that they know who the top 20 schools are for the discipline they want to study. And the ease of applying to schools is so easy now, that it's not uncommon for a kid to apply to 20+ schools. In our time, we had little data available to us so if you were from Ohio or went to a Catholic HS in the midwest, Dayton was known and a good choice. You applied to maybe 3 regional schools and that was it. Many of you were probably top students in your day. You went to UD and thought little of it. Today? UD isn't even getting applications from those students or if you are from OH it's your ultra safety(yes, an uncomfortable truth). Our kid applied to 10 schools, including UD only as a courtesy to their parents. UD ended up being the cheapest option at the end of the day due to all the money UD threw at them(even cheaper than in-state schools). But they were never going to UD. UD was only on the list for them because Dad was an alumnus. This is a reality for UD and will only get worse in the future. The implications of this are many and not positive for UD. What's happening on the sports front is also happening on the academic front.
I would generally agree with your assessment, but I don't think UD is competing with the top 20 schools in any discipline - or necessarily wants to. they are aiming at that next level student that has upside potential and can't get into one of those "top 20" schools. UD typically checks all of the boxes as a "super regional" Masters Level school. The game changer IMHO is to legitimately have a $1Billion+ endowment and to legitimately be considered a national research institution. That type of success breeds more success and lets you compete with the big dogs. If you watch/listen closely to UD's marketing, they hint/skirt around those topics. Also, make no mistake, being in the BE would pay dividends towards those goals.
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Old 07-05-2022, 12:04 PM
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UD’s endowment doesn’t compete well even in Ohio. Case Western, Oberlin, and Denison are much smaller schools with much larger endowments. But, that’s fine. UD doesn’t have to compete with the top schools. It’s not in financial distress. It continues to grow. Those are solid considerations.
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Old 07-05-2022, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
I think we have finally reached the point where there is an acknowledgement that unless you are one of about 20 may be 30 programs, your college football program is not championship viable. I’ll list them by current affiliation.
ACC
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Virginia Tech
Big10
Iowa
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin
Big12
Baylor
Oklahoma
Texas
Pac12
Oregon
UCLA
USC
Washington
SEC
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Texas A&M
Independent
Notre Dame
I had to reach for about three or four of these. if I’m the ACC, Pac 12, and some of these conferences like the mountain west or American, to save my other sports, I would try to find someway to separate college football out and let a super league develop with these 23-ish schools. You will notice, some large blue bloods of basketball, duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, Purdue, never mind teams in the big east or Gonzaga, are very interested in keeping the NCAA tournament as is. too much conference realignment will hurt them. Summary, treat football almost like what hockey used to be, and just let teams join all kinds of conferences for that. Yes you’re right steel for basketball will not be as big, but it may save you more money in the end, otherwise, you have nothing.
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Va Tech?? Washington?? Nahh... Va Tech isnt even being mentioned in most of the proposed superconferences i've seen

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Old 07-05-2022, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
UD’s endowment doesn’t compete well even in Ohio. Case Western, Oberlin, and Denison are much smaller schools with much larger endowments. But, that’s fine. UD doesn’t have to compete with the top schools. It’s not in financial distress. It continues to grow. Those are solid considerations.
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Actually, it competes quite well. The three schools you mentioned are the only private universities with larger endowments than UD. Xavier’s, by comparison, is less than a third the size of UD’s $610 million dollar endowment. If you throw in the state schools, only Ohio State has a larger endowment — $6.8 billion, which blows away every other school endowment in the state by … well, billions. Dayton’s endowment ranks fourth among Ohio private schools and fifth when you add in the state universities.

It doesn’t rank nearly as well in the A-10, maybe middle of the pack. Saint Louis, Fordham, Richmond, Davidson, UMass, Chicago Loyola and George Washington all have significantly larger endowments.

And if you’re curious, Dayton and Marquette would be roughly parallel in the Big East, ahead of Butler, Seton Hall, Providence and Xavier, but below everyone else. Again, middle of the pack.

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Old 07-05-2022, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Gazoo, can you bookmark these posts and revisit a year from now re: the A10? I'm on record as saying that 2019 is an anomaly. 2020 will have 1) several more, at least 3, teams in the Top 100 2) half or more of the teams will be in top half of the NET/RPI and 3) we'll get 3 or more teams in the dance.

SLU, how did you do?
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:32 PM
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The Fly, I don’t want to belabor the discussion about endowments, but UD does not compete well. Kenyon has less than a quarter of the students and only $200,000 less in endowment dollars. Denison has less than a third of the enrollment and over $300,000 more than UD. You’re comparing UD to OWU, Wooster, and other much smaller schools. It’s fine to admit that it just doesn’t compare favorably. There’s no need to compare it to X. X is dangerously poor. Wittenberg and Wright State are in dangerous waters with sun $100,000 endowments. X is less than $200,000. At the end of the day, the endowments tend to reflect the difficulty to be admitted. The smaller, well heeled schools have tougher admissions processes. It is what it is, and that’s fine. UD is sound financially.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:46 PM
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No, I’m really comparing them to peer schools like Xavier, Marquette, Seton Hall, Creighton and the like. The small private institutions you mentioned are in a completely different subset with completely different enrollment qualifications. Dayton isn’t academically on par with Case Western or Oberlin and never will be, as much as the administration would wish it. Their endowments reflect that in part. In other words, they’re not peer institutions. It’s one reason Harvard by far has the largest endowment of any university in the nation. Ohio State is not ITS peer.

The facts are as stated — UD trails only one school of size in the state of Ohio, and only three in the subset you referenced. We can agree, however, that UD is quite sound financially. Its endowment isn’t at the billion-dollar level, but for what it is, the school is in good shape. I hope it gets in even better shape in the years to come.

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Old 07-05-2022, 05:28 PM
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Agreed, Fly. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 07-14-2022, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
I would love for there to be European style soccer relegation for teams. Hell I would love to see that in the Atlantic 10! What I see stopping a model like that is teams will complain that if they are relegated to a second tier for two years, that will kill their recruiting/N I L. Also, as long as traditional cable is involved, you get into the issue of media markets. What does the Big Ten do when they realize Rutgers and Maryland, basically tied to TV markets New York and DC, will likely never be in that top level. Networks will not pay top level rates for those markets. Now, as we move toward streaming platforms, that all changes because market size doesn’t matter.
I’ve listened to a couple influential voices save it maybe this in fact just creates football only conferences and then we figure out other things for Olympic sports. That’s personally where I see us in 10 or 15 years. But what will the carnage be between now and then? Tangentially, where will college as an industry be in 10 or 15 years? I’m hearing lots of talk and quite frankly fear about what’s being referred to as the enrollment Cliff. People started having way fewer kids about 15 years ago. Colleges are depending on revenue targets from tuition and fees to stay viable. couple that with kids coming into college with their associates degrees because they now have that option in high schools to do both. No state institution is going to flat out reject peoples credit hours because the politicians who are so proud of putting these programs in place would go nuts. Private institutions like ours have a bit more leeway in that regard. All of that to say, buckle up because what we knew is college sports or even college, will not be the same in short order.
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I am not up to speed with where the higher education industry is right now, but college enrollment has been declining at about a 1% rate for the decade before covid started, and covid made things worse.

Additionally, more than a million students have walked away from college in the past two years, and there is supposed to be a decade-long decline in the number of high school graduates.

The value proposition of higher education is being questioned.

Some long overdue changes are needed in the higher education industry IMO.

Good link below IMO, the comments were good too.

https://www.realcleareducation.com/a...ng_110743.html:

More than two years since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, enrollment at American colleges and universities is continuing to plummet. College enrollment had been falling by about 1% each year for a decade before the pandemic, but COVID-19 accelerated that trend. In the past two years, more than 1 million students have walked away from higher education. Public universities, private colleges, community colleges, and graduate schools are all getting hit.

There’s no shortage of speculation as to where students are going. The pandemic and a robust job market have siphoned off more students in the short term. In the long term, experts are projecting a decade-long decline in high school graduation rates that will leave colleges with a shrinking pool of students to draw from.

A coalition of more than 70 selective private institutions developed their own tool to give prospective students a better understanding of the true cost of attending college. Twenty-eight states and regions have partnered with Credential Engine, which has created a common language and data set to help students sort through the maze of more than 1 million degrees, certificates, and other credentials and pick the one that will pay off for them.

Florida’s performance-based funding model for its public universities includes two workforce metrics – employment and median wages of graduates – that show if college degrees are paying off. The College Transparency Act, now pending in the Senate, would give the public even more data about college access, price, and outcomes.

Last edited by ud2; 07-14-2022 at 07:44 AM..
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Old 07-14-2022, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am not up to speed with where the higher education industry is right now, but college enrollment has been declining at about a 1% rate for the decade before covid started, and covid made things worse.

Additionally, more than a million students have walked away from college in the past two years, and there is supposed to be a decade-long decline in the number of high school graduates.

The value proposition of higher education is being questioned.

Some long overdue changes are needed in the higher education industry IMO.

Good link below IMO, the comments were good too.

https://www.realcleareducation.com/a...ng_110743.html:

More than two years since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, enrollment at American colleges and universities is continuing to plummet. College enrollment had been falling by about 1% each year for a decade before the pandemic, but COVID-19 accelerated that trend. In the past two years, more than 1 million students have walked away from higher education. Public universities, private colleges, community colleges, and graduate schools are all getting hit.

There’s no shortage of speculation as to where students are going. The pandemic and a robust job market have siphoned off more students in the short term. In the long term, experts are projecting a decade-long decline in high school graduation rates that will leave colleges with a shrinking pool of students to draw from.

A coalition of more than 70 selective private institutions developed their own tool to give prospective students a better understanding of the true cost of attending college. Twenty-eight states and regions have partnered with Credential Engine, which has created a common language and data set to help students sort through the maze of more than 1 million degrees, certificates, and other credentials and pick the one that will pay off for them.

Florida’s performance-based funding model for its public universities includes two workforce metrics – employment and median wages of graduates – that show if college degrees are paying off. The College Transparency Act, now pending in the Senate, would give the public even more data about college access, price, and outcomes.
This post, and the previous post it responded to, are both refreshing and insightful perspectives on the changes currently underway. I may not be around to see the final outcome of it all, but I appreciate both posts as background thoughts for what will likely be occurring over the next decade.
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Old 02-06-2023, 10:35 AM
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So, per Holylandofhoops the Big12 is going after UConn, St. John's and Villanova. If that were to happen, one would think . . .
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Old 02-06-2023, 10:45 AM
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I would think that the Big 12 would want to add another strong football school, but they may want to separate themselves even further as the top basketball conference. Would certainly be interesting.
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Old 02-06-2023, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So, per Holylandofhoops the Big12 is going after UConn, St. John's and Villanova. If that were to happen, one would think . . .
one would think...that others in the Big East will be looking to move elsewhere and that conference will start to look like the A10 from about 2017. If you take solace in this, teams like X, Marquette, Butler etc... will also be screwed by the new world of college basketball. The fall will just be more delayed than it has happened to the A10.
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Old 02-06-2023, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
one would think...that others in the Big East will be looking to move elsewhere and that conference will start to look like the A10 from about 2017. If you take solace in this, teams like X, Marquette, Butler etc... will also be screwed by the new world of college basketball. The fall will just be more delayed than it has happened to the A10.
So, would the top half of the A10 merger with the top half of the BE and form the NEW Midwest Conference?
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Old 02-06-2023, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So, would the top half of the A10 merger with the top half of the BE and form the NEW Midwest Conference?
We could extend AG to a 10 year contract for getting us into the new new big East
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Old 02-06-2023, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
We could extend AG to a 10 year contract for getting us into the new new big East
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Old 02-06-2023, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So, would the top half of the A10 merger with the top half of the BE and form the NEW Midwest Conference?
Yes, you could do that. Take say UD, _avier, Butler, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis, Loyola, Duquesne, and LaSalle. You could even add teams like Evansville and Detroit. You could call it the Mid West Collegiate Conference or MCC for short, lol.

Seriously though, if the afore mentioned teams leave the BE for the Big 12, I could easily see a merger like that happening. That's about the only way I could see UD being in a league with those teams. They really don't want us, but if they are left in the lurch all of a sudden UD might look a little better.
The only other way I could ever imagine UD in the Big East is if whoever had the media rights wants more teams and pushes that league to add us. The reason I think that is possible is that while Dayton is not a major market, I suspect we would bring good ratings, even when it's not UD playing. Also, UD Arena makes for good optics on TV.

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Old 02-06-2023, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So, per Holylandofhoops the Big12 is going after UConn, St. John's and Villanova. If that were to happen, one would think . . .
Wow, I didn't see that coming. So that would put 14? teams in the Big 12? 10 now - Texas and Oklahoma = 8 + Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, UConn, Saint John's, and Villanova. Only 12 for football. UConn would be elated to have a better home for their football team.

The BE commish was right: realignment ain't over yet.

And I guess the one thing about Gonzaga potentially to the BE is what happens if Mark Few ever leaves or retires, and Gonzaga slips down the rankings some? Is Gonzaga still so attractive? Is all that extra travel to Spokane worth it? Few is 60 years old.

It can be hard to maintain dominance after a coaching change.

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Old 02-06-2023, 01:04 PM
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I glanced at that site. It all seems coming from an unattributed post by a dude named Chong. It could just all be Chong having some nice dreams.
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Old 02-06-2023, 01:07 PM
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I get that St John’s would bring MSG, but the team has been down for years. If they really want access to NYC, can the A10 pay them to take Fordham?
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Old 02-06-2023, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
I get that St John’s would bring MSG, but the team has been down for years. If they really want access to NYC, can the A10 pay them to take Fordham?
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Hey, at least Fordham was able to go into Olean and win. A10 might need them from here on out.
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Old 02-06-2023, 01:38 PM
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^ouch
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Old 02-06-2023, 03:30 PM
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Wising up

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am not up to speed with where the higher education industry is right now, but college enrollment has been declining at about a 1% rate for the decade before covid started, and covid made things worse.

Additionally, more than a million students have walked away from college in the past two years, and there is supposed to be a decade-long decline in the number of high school graduates.

The value proposition of higher education is being questioned.

Some long overdue changes are needed in the higher education industry IMO.

Good link below IMO, the comments were good too.

https://www.realcleareducation.com/a...ng_110743.html:

More than two years since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, enrollment at American colleges and universities is continuing to plummet. College enrollment had been falling by about 1% each year for a decade before the pandemic, but COVID-19 accelerated that trend. In the past two years, more than 1 million students have walked away from higher education. Public universities, private colleges, community colleges, and graduate schools are all getting hit.

There’s no shortage of speculation as to where students are going. The pandemic and a robust job market have siphoned off more students in the short term. In the long term, experts are projecting a decade-long decline in high school graduation rates that will leave colleges with a shrinking pool of students to draw from.

A coalition of more than 70 selective private institutions developed their own tool to give prospective students a better understanding of the true cost of attending college. Twenty-eight states and regions have partnered with Credential Engine, which has created a common language and data set to help students sort through the maze of more than 1 million degrees, certificates, and other credentials and pick the one that will pay off for them.

Florida’s performance-based funding model for its public universities includes two workforce metrics – employment and median wages of graduates – that show if college degrees are paying off. The College Transparency Act, now pending in the Senate, would give the public even more data about college access, price, and outcomes.
No doubt some drop in enrollment is due to belated recognition that college for many is simply a waste of money. The Government's own figures reveal that one year after receiving a BS/BA degree 50% of grads are either unemployed or working at a job requiring only a HS education. Meanwhile there is an acute shortage of skilled labor....good paying jobs. No other country sends the percentage of HS students to college that the US does.
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Old 02-09-2023, 02:14 PM
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I have looked around and unless I am overlooking something, outside of Chong's post on Holy Land Of Hoops this Villanova ,St. John's, Uconn to the big 12 rumor has no legs. The only thing I can find is the Big 12 is interested in adding Gonzaga as a basketball only school which does make a lot of sense.
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Old 02-09-2023, 04:33 PM
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I agree. I don't think there is any validity to the post.
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Old 02-09-2023, 05:30 PM
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If we were in the BE, and still had the same up and down season, we would still have more opportunities for higher profile (Quad 1 and Quad 2) wins down the stretch than we do in the A10.

Yes, the A10 is down this year. But even on an up year and a down year for the BE, there would still be more higher profile games down the stretch. The more higher profile games, the better.

Somehow we have to get to the BE.
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Old 02-09-2023, 05:46 PM
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Sounds like San Diego St. and SMU are headed to the PAC12. TV said they needed to expand for more inventory to get the money they wanted in their new media rights deal

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...a-rights-deal/

I think this is the only way into the Big East. Their TV deal is up relatively soon. If a network tells they need to 14 teams, they'll ask how high they need to jump
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Old 02-09-2023, 06:23 PM
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If they jumped to 14 — three spots — you’d have to think the prime candidates would be us, SLU and VCU. Possibly Wichita State. Would have to hope the Zags and Memphis are gobbled up by the Big 12.
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Old 02-09-2023, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
If we were in the BE, and still had the same up and down season, we would still have more opportunities for higher profile (Quad 1 and Quad 2) wins down the stretch than we do in the A10.

Yes, the A10 is down this year. But even on an up year and a down year for the BE, there would still be more higher profile games down the stretch. The more higher profile games, the better.

Somehow we have to get to the BE.
A bad year for the BE is about 4 teams in the ncaat, a good year is about 7.

Sure sounded like the BE commish was insinuating that the BE is going to add multiple teams before Feb 2024. I have a hard time believing they would go to 13. Sure seems like they are headed to 14.

I wonder if Ford at SLU was not fired last year because they know BE expansion is right around the corner, and they felt they'd be in a better position to get invited to join the BE by holding onto an underachieving Ford this year and maybe getting into the ncaat rather than starting from scratch with somebody else this year.

With 14, a bad year would be maybe 5 or 6 ncaat teams, a good year would be 8 or 9.

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Old 02-09-2023, 07:21 PM
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I am concerned about Wichita State getting into the BE, good attendance, very strong performance over the last several years, close relative proximity to Creighton, etc.

Hypothetically, if us, SLU, and VCU got in, I guess my combination current and historical power rankings would be below. Maybe I am totally wrong on this and have no idea what I'm talking about. Hope I didn't offend anybody.

1. Villanova
2. Connecticut
3. Xavier
4. Marquette
5. Creighton
6. Providence/VCU tied
8. Dayton/Seton Hall/Butler tied
11. Georgetown
12. SLU
13. Saint John's
14. DePaul

I'd put Wichita State at around #6 tied with Providence and VCU. I'd put Rhode Island at around #13 tied with Saint John's. Gonzaga would be at #1 or #2 either tied with Villanova or tied with UConn.

Temple and Memphis have fcs football, seems like they are out. Villanova may object to Temple also. I'd put Memphis at around the #6 to #8 range. I'd put Temple at around #13.

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Old 02-09-2023, 08:10 PM
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That’s a fair break down of the power rankings. There may be some teams who might be a spot higher or lower, but it’s a solid summary. The one exception is Georgetown. I’d put them at 13.
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Old 02-09-2023, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gem View Post
I glanced at that site. It all seems coming from an unattributed post by a dude named Chong. It could just all be Chong having some nice dreams.
I see what you did there!
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Old 02-09-2023, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
No doubt some drop in enrollment is due to belated recognition that college for many is simply a waste of money. The Government's own figures reveal that one year after receiving a BS/BA degree 50% of grads are either unemployed or working at a job requiring only a HS education. Meanwhile there is an acute shortage of skilled labor....good paying jobs. No other country sends the percentage of HS students to college that the US does.
And yet, there are several politicians who say we don’t promote higher education enough in this country, and that everyone should go to college (and that it should be free). While I think that everyone with the intelligence to handle college, who has a plan for what to do with their degree, should not be held back because of finances, for far too long, kids have been allowed to take-out 5- and 6-figure loans to go to college, to get degrees in medieval basket weaving, or to dual-major in social studies and fluid dynamics. Utter nonsense.
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Old 02-09-2023, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
The one exception is Georgetown. I’d put them at 13.
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They have a lot of historical power...attendance is not terrible but not great, around 5k per game, arena is mostly empty it looks like on tv...alumni base seems very powerful...very prestigious school...desirable location...seems like a sleeping giant...been going thru some struggles off and on for a good while now...might not ever regain their former status though

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Old 02-09-2023, 09:22 PM
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I feel like the only way UD gets into the BE is if whoever holds the media rights insists on it. For example, Fox decides to renew only if the BE becomes a super league with 16 or more teams and then puts us on the list of teams they would like to see added. Say what you want about Dayton as a media market, when it comes to the Flyers, Dayton will bring a lot of subscribers to screens. I don't think that's a far-fetched scenario.
The problem with that is UD would be like that super annoying kid that you and your friends hate, but your mom makes you invite to your birthday party. Those schools really really don't want UD. Maybe the grass there is not so green and somehow UD will always end up mowing it. As leagues raid other leagues to stay afloat, who knows who might want to add UD for basketball.

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Old 02-09-2023, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
That’s a fair break down of the power rankings. There may be some teams who might be a spot higher or lower, but it’s a solid summary. The one exception is Georgetown. I’d put them at 13.
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And I feel like Dayton's ceiling is #1 on that list if Dayton could reach its full potential. I feel like the floor is #10 or #11. So we are much closer to our floor right now than our ceiling IMO. None of those schools ahead of us possess any inherent, insurmountable advantages IMO.

The Big East does not feel like the Big 12 where Kansas dominates almost always, or the Pac 12 with Arizona and UCLA and maybe Oregon, or the SEC with Kentucky, or maybe the ACC with Duke, North Carolina, and Louisville, Syracuse has been sort of down lately. Feels more like the parity-filled Big 10. Perhaps there will develop a consistent top tier with time though, it is still a newer league.

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Old 02-09-2023, 11:45 PM
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Good piece from this season on the decline of Hoyas basketball...attendance is way, way down vs. the heyday when they were a national power...disconnect between the program and the fans/alumni...no buzz around the program...giving away tickets for free


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ng-attendance/
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Old 02-10-2023, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Good piece from this season on the decline of Hoyas basketball...attendance is way, way down vs. the heyday when they were a national power...disconnect between the program and the fans/alumni...no buzz around the program...giving away tickets for free


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ng-attendance/
When I read that article, only one word went through my mind - schadenfreude
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Old 02-10-2023, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Good piece from this season on the decline of Hoyas basketball...attendance is way, way down vs. the heyday when they were a national power...disconnect between the program and the fans/alumni...no buzz around the program...giving away tickets for free


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ng-attendance/
the NBA arena they play in looks like a ghost town in Twitter photos

Fairmont might outdraw them
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Old 02-10-2023, 06:55 AM
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Dayton will be invited to Big East. UConn is Sticking with football and will move on. Should the P5 add non football schools watch for Nova to ACC. It’s about inventory and money . Tradition etc is out the window . All about Money!! Will be good for UD!!
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Old 02-10-2023, 08:25 AM
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For 2021-2022, Georgetown was 2nd to last in attendance in the Big East. DePaul was a distant last. UD had more fans in their first 8 games this year than Georgetown had last season. UD had more after 5 games than DePaul had last year. DePaul drew only 3,256/game. Fwiw, St. John’s is only a bit over 6,000/game. I have to believe whoever buys the next media rights package would prefer 13,000 screaming fans to a few thousand in a mostly empty arena.

I have no idea if UD gets a NBE invite. No idea. However, I don’t think it’s a bridge too far. We all know that there would need to be better recruiting and play. We all know that we have not outpaced everyone else in the conference the way that X was before it got the call. It’s a slightly different work now. Fox, ESPN, and CBS want inventory! And, they want something more than just a placeholder. Try watching part of a Georgetown game. I have. It’s awful. You would have to be a player’s parent to watch. Again, I have no idea if UD gets a shot in NBE. I just like our chances. And, man, I’d pay more to see the first Big East home game than I would for any other game (note: I pay more for an F1 weekend, but the ticket includes practices and the race; that’s different).
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Old 02-10-2023, 08:58 AM
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Spot on!! The numbers will work in our favor .. again all about cash.. ya saw yesterday the SEC new schools coming in moved up a year and they paid a huge ransom to get out early. Big East would be wise to be aggressive and move fast.
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Old 02-10-2023, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
For 2021-2022, Georgetown was 2nd to last in attendance in the Big East. DePaul was a distant last. UD had more fans in their first 8 games this year than Georgetown had last season. UD had more after 5 games than DePaul had last year. DePaul drew only 3,256/game. Fwiw, St. John’s is only a bit over 6,000/game. I have to believe whoever buys the next media rights package would prefer 13,000 screaming fans to a few thousand in a mostly empty arena.

I have no idea if UD gets a NBE invite. No idea. However, I don’t think it’s a bridge too far. We all know that there would need to be better recruiting and play. We all know that we have not outpaced everyone else in the conference the way that X was before it got the call. It’s a slightly different work now. Fox, ESPN, and CBS want inventory! And, they want something more than just a placeholder. Try watching part of a Georgetown game. I have. It’s awful. You would have to be a player’s parent to watch. Again, I have no idea if UD gets a shot in NBE. I just like our chances. And, man, I’d pay more to see the first Big East home game than I would for any other game (note: I pay more for an F1 weekend, but the ticket includes practices and the race; that’s different).
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I knew that Georgetown was down, but I didn't realize how bad their fans think things are...if you read the comments from the Wapo link I posted, many of their fans are very depressed: this seems like the modern day low point for the program...some of them want to go to division 3...fire Patrick Ewing, he can't coach or recruit...Ewing won't engage with the AAU people during recruiting...move the games back to the 3,200 seat on-campus arena...the heyday is a distant, distant memory...schedule Maryland, schedule GW...recruits keep transferring out...we are never going to be good or great again...getting their butt kicked in league play under Ewing.

I like our chances of getting into the BE too, I was pretty pessimistic about this in the past, but don't believe the "it'll never happen" stuff...the TV people need inventory...13,000 screaming fans in a sold out arena draws attention...yes, the play needs to get better, or we will lose too often to some/maybe many of the teams, will need to play better in order to have a better record in league play. Some of those BE schools don't draw as well as you think: Georgetown, Saint John's, and DePaul.

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Old 02-10-2023, 09:18 AM
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Old 02-10-2023, 09:20 AM
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Thumbs down

The title of this tread starts with "We need to be ..."

But some post on here as if the feeling is mutual .... or at least under consideration from the alphabet list of conferences starting with the NBE

Unfortunately the size of your attendance, the history of the program yada yada yada .... does not make it an overly compelling case for said conferences beating down Neil's door . IF IT WERE we wouldn't be on this thread in 2023 espousing the same virtues we espoused a few years ago.

Our history includes some great seasons, some great players and some years of forgetful seasons and players. Our greatest chance was under AM I know, I know, with some warts but the end result we made noise in the March Madness, national coverage and the like. Since then we were in the daily conversation waaaay back in 2019-2020. Neither of those occasions brought at least a public acknowledgement (or rumor) of others beating down that door on campus.

So it doesn't appear that UD has found that secret recipe for inclusion into the NBE ... yet. Maybe as some suggest only a financial factor from a commercial enterprise such as FOX or some other organization requests it to be so.

But so far that doesn't seem to be the case. So making comparisons about who's got the better gym, arena, garden to play in, how many fans in the stands a program has, the coach, the players pedigree, yada, yada, yada is not going to be the major factor that gets us in.

Speaking of history I remember one day waking up to find out that the conference we were in quietly slipped out the back door without UD's knowledge and started another conference behind our back. That was and is still in some schools memory who we so wish to realign with now.

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Old 02-10-2023, 10:37 AM
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That is definitely the counter argument. There’s no doubt that it has merit. It will be interesting as the dominoes start to fall. The only certainty is that they will. No offense, but I really hope I’m right and you’re wrong. Really hope so.
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Old 02-10-2023, 12:32 PM
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When any discussion regarding the Big East comes up, I consult my brother. He is a Seton Hall grad, season ticket holder and pretty much in touch with the proper decision-making people at the Hall. Before the BE football playing teams split, he told me well in advance it was going to happen because the basketball teams were fed up. Many on this board felt it was never going to happen because of the money. Anyway, I contacted my brother to ask him if he heard anything about BE expansion. Here is his response:

"Nothing concrete. If the BE were to expand it would only be 1 more team. The usual names keep coming up. UD, St. Louis, Loyola of Chicago (I hadn't heard that one before), etc. UConn, St. Johns and Nova are not going to the Big 12."

Can and will circumstances change? Most definitely. For sure we will be in for another round of conference realignment triggered by Oklahoma and Texas leaving the Big 12 and the BIG 10 adding teams. I'm really not quite sure if it will affect UD in a positive way. I really think the BE wants Gonzaga.

Take it for what it is worth.
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Old 02-10-2023, 12:55 PM
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If it's only one....

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
When any discussion regarding the Big East comes up, I consult my brother. He is a Seton Hall grad, season ticket holder and pretty much in touch with the proper decision-making people at the Hall. Before the BE football playing teams split, he told me well in advance it was going to happen because the basketball teams were fed up. Many on this board felt it was never going to happen because of the money. Anyway, I contacted my brother to ask him if he heard anything about BE expansion. Here is his response:

"Nothing concrete. If the BE were to expand it would only be 1 more team. The usual names keep coming up. UD, St. Louis, Loyola of Chicago (I hadn't heard that one before), etc. UConn, St. Johns and Nova are not going to the Big 12."

Can and will circumstances change? Most definitely. For sure we will be in for another round of conference realignment triggered by Oklahoma and Texas leaving the Big 12 and the BIG 10 adding teams. I'm really not quite sure if it will affect UD in a positive way. I really think the BE wants Gonzaga.

Take it for what it is worth.
If it's one it will be SLU in my opinion. Geography, Jesuit, academic reputation. We don't have a chance if it's one...again, IMO.
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Old 02-10-2023, 01:00 PM
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I don’t think adding one team moves the needle for the BE — not when the B10 and SEC are at 16 teams, the PAC12 looking to add two more, and the Big12 dropping back to 12 but looking to add a couple more — with Gonzaga in their sights. The real question is what moves the needle for Fox.
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Old 02-10-2023, 01:12 PM
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I don’t think UConn football can continue as an independent. If they can get into the Big 12, they would have enough money to take a stab at competing again in football. It’s just a bonus that the would be in the best basketball conference. I appreciate your brother’s insight, but UConn is in a position different from any other team in the Big East.

The Big 12 rumors are probably more relevant now as the Big 12 commish has publicly stated that he (1) wants a national presence with teams in all time zones, (2) sees football realignment coming to a close, and (e) is open to adding basketball only schools. That’s huge. While it’s an obvious nod to Gonzaga (the Zags to the Big 12 might be the most likely scenario; they would do well to be in the basketball conference), it’s also an acknowledgment that more change is on his mind. It’s a conference talking point. Things have changed for the Big 12. They’re not the big dog in football. Their best hope is to be #3 in football. Basketball? They clearly want to own it.

Does this mean that there’s any truth to the rumor of Villanova, St John’s, and UConn going to the Big 12? Maybe. Maybe not. I have no idea. It could mean that some version of the rumor does come to fruition. The UConn AD said as recent as last Summer that you have to stay on the look out for opportunity. UConnbolted from the AAC because it was clear that it was going to crumble. Being a football independent sounds temporary. In other words, it sounds like UConn is still conference hunting. Remember, they pushed Big 12 membership just 6-7 years ago.
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Old 02-10-2023, 01:42 PM
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I would be interested in seeing how UDs TV numbers (viewership, etc) vs SLUs numbers. I understand that UD is a smaller market and that it overlaps with XU. But I would think that when to take into the overall fan base, I would guess that UD would sell more tickets on the road and at the BE tournament.
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Old 02-10-2023, 01:46 PM
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UConn is the wild card. There were a good number of folks in the BE that did not want to readmit UConn to the conference due to UConn's football situation. The BE wants nothing to do with FBS football. Maybe UAC Flyer can add some insight into UConn and its football program/situation. If UConn would get invited to the Big 12, I would assume they would go. The UConn woman's basketball coach was VERY upset when UConn was not in the BE. But he's not going to around forever and don't know how much influence, if any, he has.
I can't believe that St. John's and Nova leave for the Big 12, but stranger things have happened.

Right now, all we can do is speculate. No one really knows what is going to happen.

I do know that the BE is very happy with a 20-game conference schedule. They like playing each team in the conference twice. Adding another team, I assume they would go to a 22-game conference schedule. Add any more teams and I can't see how they can continue to play all others twice.

I have no idea what the ratings are for Fox carrying BE games. TV is something that has to be taken into consideration.

I do know that when X, Butler and Creighton entered the BE I thought for sure, and a lot of others in the overall basketball community thought, that UD was going to get an invite. I hope we would get an invite in the future, but I'm not overly confident.
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Old 02-10-2023, 01:55 PM
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Dayton will probably get to the (weakened but still more powerful than the A10) Big East sometime in the next few years when everything shakes out.

Look at the A10 within the past 15 years. We lose Temple, Xavier and Butler and replace them with George Mason, Davidson and Loyola. That's not a fair trade off but that's what happens when your best teams want to move out and up. You certainly can't replace them with better or equal programs.

The same will happen to the Big East if they lose UConn, Nova and whoever else, they are going to have to look at Dayton very seriously.

Also, with the P2 football/basketball schools grabbing the very best of the power 3-5s, they set a trend for larger conferences. I can't see it being beneficial for the P5s to have 16 or more teams and the Big East thinking 11 or 12 is just fine for them. If they want to get anywhere close to 16, and lose at least 2 teams, that's 7 they will have to add. Dayton would certainly fall into that 7(probably if they have to add 4, Dayton's a lock).

Also, the same way staying in the A10 is going to get worse as far as getting and holding on to very good to great players for Dayton, the same will hold true for Nova and UConn in the Big East only on a higher scale. When the powerful(SEC, Big Ten) become more powerful, the ones directly underneath become less so. So I expect both Nova and UConn to bolt.

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Old 02-10-2023, 03:39 PM
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/st...519425?lang=en:

October 18, 2022

Big East commissioner Val Ackerman tells
@CBSSports the Big East is currently "good at 11" and not actively looking to expand to more members. Also confirms that the conference was involved in informal expansion talks with multiple schools in the spring and summer.



Seems contradictory...not sure why you would have informal expansion talks if you are good at 11...I suppose they could be worried about a member(s) leaving, or the BE is actually not good at 11.

Not sure why you would contact multiple schools about only one opening. Wouldn't you just contact your #1 target? I suppose they could be worried that the #1 target may not work out.

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Old 02-10-2023, 04:34 PM
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I think they are good at 11. Again, UConn is the wild card. If UConn leaves because of football, the BE could look to add one, maybe two. I think, and I have no idea of knowing, that because UConn has spent a lot of money re. it's football program they aren't about to drop to FCS level. FBS football has presented problems for them and their basketball programs, both men's and women's.
Obviously gone are the days of the former GREAT rivalries, Syracuse vs. Georgetown, St. John's vs. Georgetown and Cuse, etc. Three of the top four teams, as of today, in the BE (X, Marquette, Providence and Creighton) are teams that were not part of the original BE. Georgetown is last with 1 conference win. Nova, St. John's, Butler and DePaul, in addition to Georgetown, all have losing records in conference. The screw has turned. I think the BE added UConn because of the former relationship and they needed to add to their profile.
Fox spent a lot of money to sign up the BE. Fox was brand new and needed content. It will be interesting to see the new TV contract the BE signs and how much input FOX has, assuming FOX continues to broadcast BE games. Again, everyone is speculating. Only time will tell.
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Old 02-10-2023, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/st...519425?lang=en:

October 18, 2022

Big East commissioner Val Ackerman tells
@CBSSports the Big East is currently "good at 11" and not actively looking to expand to more members. Also confirms that the conference was involved in informal expansion talks with multiple schools in the spring and summer.



Seems contradictory...not sure why you would have informal expansion talks if you are good at 11...I suppose they could be worried about a member(s) leaving, or the BE is actually not good at 11.

Not sure why you would contact multiple schools about only one opening. Wouldn't you just contact your #1 target? I suppose they could be worried that the #1 target may not work out.
There was another quote saying they intended to expand by January, 2024. The Big East will be expanding. This could be the last big shuffle for basketball.
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Old 02-10-2023, 05:09 PM
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Interesting. Ackerman said one week prior to that quote that the Big East will not remain at 11 forever. It sounds like they are indeed contradictory. My guess is that the votes aren’t all lined up yet. I’m sure the negotiations within the conference come with the expectation that the commissioner will keep things close to his best. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some grumbling about his earlier comments.

I wish a I could be a fly on the wall when the conference discusses alignment. I bet there is some old school v new school power playing. The mistrust of UConn has to play out as well.
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Old 02-10-2023, 05:22 PM
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Saw this posted:

Merge Big East and A10 Catholic schools and break the two divisions into Jesuit & Non-Jesuit

Jesuit:
Creighton
Fordham
Georgetown
Loyola Chicago
Marquette
St Joe’s
Saint Louis
Xavier

Other:
Dayton
DePaul
Duquesne
La Salle
Providence
Seton Hall
St Bonaventure
St John’s
Villanova

(not my idea, not my post, yes I know it is far fetched)

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Old 02-10-2023, 06:14 PM
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We don't even want Fordham, Duquesne, SJU, and LaSalle so I doubt any current Big East teams want a part of them.

We have won 1 A10 Tourney title in almost 30 years and it was on our home court. I'd be happy if we just did that on occasion.
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Old 02-10-2023, 06:20 PM
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Nobody wants Duquesne, SJU, etc. It is a joke. Comedy. Hahaha
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Old 02-10-2023, 06:20 PM
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UConn

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
UConn is the wild card. There were a good number of folks in the BE that did not want to readmit UConn to the conference due to UConn's football situation. The BE wants nothing to do with FBS football. Maybe UAC Flyer can add some insight into UConn and its football program/situation. If UConn would get invited to the Big 12, I would assume they would go. The UConn woman's basketball coach was VERY upset when UConn was not in the BE. But he's not going to around forever and don't know how much influence, if any, he has.
I can't believe that St. John's and Nova leave for the Big 12, but stranger things have happened.

Right now, all we can do is speculate. No one really knows what is going to happen.

I do know that the BE is very happy with a 20-game conference schedule. They like playing each team in the conference twice. Adding another team, I assume they would go to a 22-game conference schedule. Add any more teams and I can't see how they can continue to play all others twice.

I have no idea what the ratings are for Fox carrying BE games. TV is something that has to be taken into consideration.

I do know that when X, Butler and Creighton entered the BE I thought for sure, and a lot of others in the overall basketball community thought, that UD was going to get an invite. I hope we would get an invite in the future, but I'm not overly confident.
Quite a few years ago I was in California and picked up a copy of the SF Chronical, as I recall. A sports writer had a feature article analyzing the ongoing conference shakeups...winners, losers, etc. His analysis was thorough, well-researched, compelling. He had many conclusions, opinions, of course. One of which was that of all the programs in Div 1 UConn suffered the greatest damage. At the time UConn FB occasionally cracked the Top 25 and even played in a New Years day bowl game, BB was among the Ten 10 always.

He was right. With FB driving the conference shakeup bus, UConn had nothing to offer no matter how good the team was or how good the BB teams were. UConn FB then began its downward decent...accelerated by two successive dreadful coaching hires.

That's background. Today's facts are these, in no special order: 1. No matter how competitive the FB team was there was no fan interest in AAC opponents. That fueled the move back to the BE, which is very popular 2. Currently the UConn athletic department is in a dire financial condition, running a deficit of about $40 million....due mostly to FB. 3. Indeed, the University itself was shaken to its core just yesterday when the Governor announced a $170 million cut in CT's contribution to UConn. 4. The BE schools welcomed UConn back; but they understood the facts re FB. Accordingly, the BE forced UConn to accept unusually harsh financial penalties if they bailed on the BE.

That being said, TV revenues the P5/P6 conferences enjoy are so large that even with a huge BE penalty Uconn would be better off financially in a short time if they accepted an offer from the Big 12, for example. But, don't forget the fans. UConn fans have no interest in watching the Huskies play SMU or Baylor or Sab Diego State or whomever winds up in the new Big 12.

Now the ACC is another matter. The ACC is a BB-centric conference, on the East Coast, old BE rivals are in the ACC, UConn would kill to join the ACC and its fans would love it. But the Big 12....I don't think so.

It's complicated for UConn to say the very least. UConn can succeed as an independent if it can produce a good FB team. Jim Mora, the new coach seemed to show that's possible...the team this year was competitive, played in a bowl...And with a good team the finances are not bad and, important, the schedule can interest and entertain fans far better than Big 12 member schools. As an independent UConn can play nearby Army every year...always a treat; nearby ACC and old BE rivals BC and Syracuse, other ACC schools...even UMass provides local interest. And when UConn goes on the road it's paid up to $2 million to play Big Ten schools....tOSU is on UConn's schedule.

This year UConn demonstrated that it can play an interesting FB schedule home and away. But it must produce a competitive team consistently. New transfer rules help. Coach Mora is very impressive. (Just wait until they travel to Columbus and beat the Buckeyes.)

Bottom line: UConn's life is exceptionally complicated. Pressure from the State, the fans, it never ends. But as pressing as the finances are I don't think UConn would jump to the Big 12 to play schools its fan base has no interest in. The ACC would be a savior. If Mora's team continues to improve and can pull in $2 million a few times each year to travel the independent route may be viable, especially considering the popularity of the BE with its fan base. But oh how sweet the ACC would be!

But, what do I know?
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Old 02-11-2023, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
That being said, TV revenues the P5/P6 conferences enjoy are so large that even with a huge BE penalty Uconn would be better off financially in a short time if they accepted an offer from the Big 12, for example. But, don't forget the fans. UConn fans have no interest in watching the Huskies play SMU or Baylor or Sab Diego State or whomever winds up in the new Big 12.

But as pressing as the finances are I don't think UConn would jump to the Big 12 to play schools its fan base has no interest in.
So you think if UConn gets an invite from the Big 12 that they are going to decline the offer? Really? Seems like they have no choice but to accept the offer.
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Old 02-11-2023, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So you think if UConn gets an invite from the Big 12 that they are going to decline the offer? Really? Seems like they have no choice but to accept the offer.
They absolutely would accept the Big12. The money from the Big12 and the Big East are not even remotely close. If they are in a bad as financial situation as UAC says, then it is 100% no brainer.
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Old 02-11-2023, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Interesting. Ackerman said one week prior to that quote that the Big East will not remain at 11 forever. It sounds like they are indeed contradictory. My guess is that the votes aren’t all lined up yet. I’m sure the negotiations within the conference come with the expectation that the commissioner will keep things close to his best. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some grumbling about his earlier comments.
She made two seemingly contradictory statements on the same day.

On October 18, 2022 she tells Dana O'Neill of The Athletic: I don't think the Big East will stay at 11 forever.

On October 18, 2022, she tells "@CBSSports the Big East is currently 'good at 11' and not actively looking to expand to more members. Also confirms that the conference was involved in informal expansion talks with multiple schools in the spring and summer."

So, I guess she is saying that the BE is good at 11 for now, but will likely go to 12 or more at some point, and although the BE is not actively looking to expand, the BE has contacted multiple schools informally regarding expanding the BE.

I am not sure which statement was made first. It is almost like she made the statement about not staying at 11 first, then somebody got mad and told her to walk that back, so then she said that the BE was good at 11.

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Old 02-11-2023, 01:06 PM
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Sound logic

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So you think if UConn gets an invite from the Big 12 that they are going to decline the offer? Really? Seems like they have no choice but to accept the offer.
Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
They absolutely would accept the Big12. The money from the Big12 and the Big East are not even remotely close. If they are in a bad as financial situation as UAC says, then it is 100% no brainer.
Certainly can't argue with the logic. From a financial point of view it is, indeed, a no brainer.

My point is that there are other considerations....including dropping FBS FB if the hemorrhage of red ink gets bad enough. There is some pressure in the legislature and the faculty community to do that.

Joining a conference that its fan base has absolutely no interest in just to balance the books is not attractive.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. The stronger the SEC and Big Ten get the weaker the ACC becomes. it's not inconceivable that the ACC may lose teams. In the past the ACC has had no need whatsoever for UConn and has treated UConn with disdain. ACC loss of FSU would surprise no one...even the ACC. But loss of one or two other members would be a disaster for the ACC, which might find itself needing a school like UConn.

Surely UConn wouldn't want to jump to the Big 12 only to discover in two years or so that the ACC wants/needs UConn.

An important part of this, I think, is UConn FB. UConn men's and women's BB as well as olympic sports are top level as everyone knows. But FB had sunk to a level below the bottom. That has to change....and last season a change began. Assuming UConn FB continues its rise and the ACC takes a hit, UConn might have a shot at the ACC.

UConn pays its AD to know all these things and much, much more. I would not want his job.
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Old 02-11-2023, 01:13 PM
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I had read that UConn had to pay the AAC 17 million to leave. They also had to pay the BE 3.5 million to enter the league. If they leave the BE within 6 years of their entering the BE (2020) they would have to pay the BE 30 million. In 2021 UConn folks said they "didn't join the BE to leave." Then on top of that there would be an entry fee to pay their new league and they would not share equally with the existing members of their new league for quite some time. Ask Rutgers about waiting to share equally with the other Big 10 members.
That's a lot of money that would take a fairly long time to recoup.
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Old 02-11-2023, 01:38 PM
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Correct

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
I had read that UConn had to pay the AAC 17 million to leave. They also had to pay the BE 3.5 million to enter the league. If they leave the BE within 6 years of their entering the BE (2020) they would have to pay the BE 30 million. In 2021 UConn folks said they "didn't join the BE to leave." Then on top of that there would be an entry fee to pay their new league and they would not share equally with the existing members of their new league for quite some time. Ask Rutgers about waiting to share equally with the other Big 10 members.
That's a lot of money that would take a fairly long time to recoup.
Bill your figures add up to quite a bit of money. And you didn't even mention that just a few weeks ago UConn paid former BB coach Kevin Ollie $11 million to settle his legal battle re his firing a few years ago.

Just about any way you slice it the numbers don't work out well for UConn...in spite of broad based excellence in all sports except FB, outstanding facilities, splendid academic reputation, etc.

What UConn needs is a lucky break,....something unexpected breaking in its favor....for close to a decade it's been 100% the opposite. I continue to believe (hope) that adversity for the ACC driven by the SEC and Big Ten juggernauts might benefit UConn unexpectedly. Talk about wishful thinking!

Lacking that, remaining in the BE and fielding a competitive FB team is the most realistic alternative for UConn. Drawing ~ 40,000 fans to FB games as they once did, while being paid $1.5-$2 million to play Big Ten and SEC teams on the road a few times each year would be a huge improvement over the current situation.
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Old 02-13-2023, 03:34 PM
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From the athletic Director of one of the BE schools per adding Dayton - "That is on the table"
Take it for what it is. But he was talking with his cousin who is a friend and no reason for him to exaggerate. Next few months will be interesting with the Big 12 and Pac whatever both looking to add schools.
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Old 02-13-2023, 05:30 PM
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Motivation

Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
From the athletic Director of one of the BE schools per adding Dayton - "That is on the table"
Take it for what it is. But he was talking with his cousin who is a friend and no reason for him to exaggerate. Next few months will be interesting with the Big 12 and Pac whatever both looking to add schools.
What are possible motives for the BE wanting/needing to add teams?

Their TV contract is an important factor. So if the TV boss insists on more games that would be one. Another might be if OOC scheduling becomes increasingly difficult because of actions of the super-large power conferences.

Adding even one more school means one more slice of the pie. So the reason for expansion has to account for that. Are there other reasons for expansion based on finances...or some other factor? Seems to me that the BE is in a pretty good situation as is with 11 schools.
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Old 02-13-2023, 06:19 PM
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Their media rights contract is expiring. They’ll need inventory, which will mean expansion. It’s a major factor for most conference expansion. It is not a small matter.
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Old 02-13-2023, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
What are possible motives for the BE wanting/needing to add teams?

Their TV contract is an important factor. So if the TV boss insists on more games that would be one. Another might be if OOC scheduling becomes increasingly difficult because of actions of the super-large power conferences.

Adding even one more school means one more slice of the pie. So the reason for expansion has to account for that. Are there other reasons for expansion based on finances...or some other factor? Seems to me that the BE is in a pretty good situation as is with 11 schools.
I guess the question is what is the motivating factor for any conference to expand? Why Loyola into the A10? While they are an all around better program than LaSalle, Fordham, SJ, etc... they aren't when compared to VCU, Dayton and SLU and probably more. Yes they went and were very succesful in a couple recent NCAA tournaments, but they aren't must-see tv on the national level and don't draw up the fan interest in a normal season for them. Why did the A10 want to give them a piece of the pie?

Why did the ACC add so many teams over the years when I'm sure Duke, UNC, NCST, Clemson, Georgia, Virginia and Wake Forest would rather keep the same money split between themselves. Obviously, the added money coming in made it worth their while to split that pie in more slices.

Also, adding teams now is kind of insurance against losing teams. They lose a Nova or UConn, it's better to still have a decent amount of competitors already in your pocket than to react later.

And let's look at Creighton. The Creighton they pilfered back when they expanded is not the same Creighton it is today. Being in the Big East raised their program. The same would happen with Dayton and VCU. They would get better recruits most likely and a higher level of coaches to draw from when and if that time comes. So there's advantages on both sides of the issue.
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Old 02-13-2023, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Their media rights contract is expiring. They’ll need inventory, which will mean expansion. It’s a major factor for most conference expansion. It is not a small matter.
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Agree...it may be as simple as Fox telling the BE "either you add 1 or 2 or 3 more teams of our choosing, or we are going to pay you less $." The best deal the BE can get may require adding more teams.
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Old 02-13-2023, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
What are possible motives for the BE wanting/needing to add teams?

Their TV contract is an important factor. So if the TV boss insists on more games that would be one. Another might be if OOC scheduling becomes increasingly difficult because of actions of the super-large power conferences.

Adding even one more school means one more slice of the pie. So the reason for expansion has to account for that. Are there other reasons for expansion based on finances...or some other factor? Seems to me that the BE is in a pretty good situation as is with 11 schools.
TV wants team. TV tells the Big East add more teams and make more money. Big East teams want more money (especially since many of them rent their arenas, costing them money and revenue streams)

St Johns plays almost all their games at a small on campus gym. Big East tv money is the lifeblood of their program

That’s, if the reports are true, the motivation behind the PAC12s TV partners pushing them to add SMU and San Diego St
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Old 02-13-2023, 10:02 PM
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ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
I was curious about the affiliation of the BE schools...I suppose not being Jesuit could be a plus or minus. Not sure if any of this matters.

Creighton...Jesuit
Xavier...Jesuit
Marquette...Jesuit
Georgetown...Jesuit

DePaul...Vincentian
Saint John's...Vincentian

Providence...Dominican

Villanova...Augustinian

Butler...Christian unaffiliated
Seton Hall...Catholic unaffiliated

Connecticut...public


Saint Louis...Jesuit
Loyola Chicago...Jesuit
Dayton...Marianist
VCU...public
URI...public
Wichita State...public
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