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  #1  
Old 11-15-2017, 09:04 PM
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Ball State Down by 30 at Half

To Oklahoma...our win quality descending quickly
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:07 PM
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Ball State demolished 108-69.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:28 PM
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Puts us in our place. I was optimistic after Fri, but that tempered my excitement.

I guess in retrospect, we scheduled an easy team for the opener.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Puts us in our place. I was optimistic after Fri, but that tempered my excitement.

I guess in retrospect, we scheduled an easy team for the opener.
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Don't tell that to UD2...
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Puts us in our place. I was optimistic after Fri, but that tempered my excitement.

I guess in retrospect, we scheduled an easy team for the opener.
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Come on man have some faith... we beat an average IPFW team, who didn't make the tourney, back in November 2013 on an opening night buzzer beater then look what happened that year.

I'm not saying it's gonna happen but Friday was a good win for a young team

Believe lol
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Come on man have some faith... we beat an average IPFW team, who didn't make the tourney, back in November 2013 on an opening night buzzer beater then look what happened that year.

I'm not saying it's gonna happen but Friday was a good win for a young team

Believe lol
It is what it is!! Rebuilding year.. that's the reality..and yes, I'll always BELIEVE
I trust AG going forward, one, two years out when he gets his own recruits.
This year is a massive question mark. My rose colored glasses are parked at the door
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:29 PM
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Well come on, on any given night, a team can look fantastic and the next night, stink up the joint. Each game can only be scrutinized in its own context. Yes, there are general observations that can be made but you can't claim because A > B and C > B by a larger margin, that it tells you anything about A and C, other than they both have W rather than L.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:47 AM
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It was like when we were up 14 nothing, but Oklahoma didn't ease off.
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2017, 07:36 AM
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I wouldn't base the possibility of success, or lack thereof, this season on comparing a buzzer beating win to a Ball State beatdown a week later.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2017, 08:08 AM
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Will Joe Lunardi

still have Ball State a 15 seed in the NCAA tournament?
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  #11  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:02 AM
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Too early and too many possible mitigating factors to read into it too much one way or the other. Maybe we took Ball State's best shot and then they were off for game 2 vs Oklahoma. Maybe it was just bad luck. Maybe we were off in the opener. Maybe this year will be a big struggle. Too early to determine anything.

At the end of the day, a win is a win is a win is a win. If we get more wins than losses in CAG's first year, with this rebuild, then I think we should be all pretty pleased. If we manage to get to 20 wins, we should be thrilled. If we somehow make the Dance in March, then we should start raising money for the CAG statue in front of the Arena.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Don't tell that to UD2...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's wait and see what happens over the rest of the year. I maintain that this was a good win over BSU, I just did not like facing them right off the bat with a new coach.

I will guess that BSU is in the top 125 this year.

Beating #125 in the opener with a new coach is a good win in my book.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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Looks like Williams to Josh took the heart out of Ball State. Way to go Flyers!!!
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:21 AM
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Oklahoma was scary fast ... at every position. Made Ball State look slow. And they hit 7 of their first 8 shots... including 3 of 4 from 3 point land. Just blitzed them!
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:23 AM
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There will be home team blowouts often, just as there were last season. In the record books, Ball State just lost 2 road games to 2 good programs. Nothing more. meh. Margin of victory is in consequential.
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Come on man have some faith... we beat an average IPFW team, who didn't make the tourney, back in November 2013 on an opening night buzzer beater then look what happened that year.

I'm not saying it's gonna happen but Friday was a good win for a young team

Believe lol
IPFW was better than average, they were #118 that year. Beating #118 in the opener is a good win. That was UD's toughest buy game opener in the last 15 years.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
It is what it is!! Rebuilding year.. that's the reality..and yes, I'll always BELIEVE
I trust AG going forward, one, two years out when he gets his own recruits.
This year is a massive question mark. My rose colored glasses are parked at the door
I don't care that we lost 4 starters, this is not a rebuilding year. We have 1 senior, 3 juniors and a sophomore starting with one redshirt freshman and another freshman who's 21 years old and has all kinds of experience in Europe.

Every starter we have was projected to be key to this team at this point in time when we signed them.

After our elite 8 run, we lost 3 starters and Vee Sanford. I'm sure you and the rest of the world called that a rebuilding year too. We also lost Gavs, and the Columbus crooks plus our backup PG and had another transfer not ever play a game. We won two NCAA tournament games.

This team should be in better shape than that one so let's stop giving them a projected pass, this should not be thought of as a rebuilding year. UD should be a next man up successful team and that's what I project them being this season.

It might be a rebuilding period, but not a rebuilding season. What I mean by that is this team might need to spend the better part of 2017 finding their identity, but by the time January rolls around, there should be no excuses.

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  #18  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:34 AM
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Actually, no, IPFW was the 3rd toughest buy game home opener since 2003-2004.

We lost to #63 Eastern Kentucky, 73-66, in 2004-2005.

And we beat #117 Austin Peay by 16 points in 2006-2007.

Last edited by ud2; 11-16-2017 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:04 AM
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UD Arena makes world beaters out of common teams. Heck, I could probably go off for 12/8 if there were 13,000+ screaming fans. Ball State usually plays in front of a couple thousand if they're lucky. The juice from all that pandemonium can get a team pumped up.

UD Arena is a blessing and a curse.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Widget View Post
UD Arena makes world beaters out of common teams. Heck, I could probably go off for 12/8 if there were 13,000+ screaming fans. Ball State usually plays in front of a couple thousand if they're lucky. The juice from all that pandemonium can get a team pumped up.

UD Arena is a blessing and a curse.
Our all-time record there says otherwise. If a team comes in and beats us at the Arena, it has more to do with the Flyers play than the opponents.

I will say that I believe it can be a road curse for the Flyers in that it's like being spoiled and then not. I think it's harder for them to keep up the intensity on the road, especially in all the high school gyms they have to play in.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Our all-time record there says otherwise. If a team comes in and beats us at the Arena, it has more to do with the Flyers play than the opponents.

I will say that I believe it can be a road curse for the Flyers in that it's like being spoiled and then not. I think it's harder for them to keep up the intensity on the road, especially in all the high school gyms they have to play in.
Agree and most P5 schools also agree. They don't want anything to do with UD Arena. It is true that at times an opponent's player will go off on us but that is the execption rather than the rule. UD Arena, a tough place to play for the visitors.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I don't care that we lost 4 starters, this is not a rebuilding year. We have 1 senior, 3 juniors and a sophomore starting with one redshirt freshman and another freshman who's 21 years old and has all kinds of experience in Europe.
Well we should win every game if we have 7 starters.

But, I think the real starting lineup is 1 senior, 3 juniors, and a 21 year old freshman, with a sophomore and a RS freshman coming first off the bench. But let's explore that a little more.

We have 1 senior. Not bad, not great.

We have 3 juniors. 1 is pretty good. 1 has only played 1 year of basketball due to injury and missing almost the entire next year. 1 has played 2 years of poor basketball; limited minutes have resulted. So of the 3 juniors we have only 1 who has significantly contributed for more than 1 year of his career.

We have "2" sophomores. 1 has played exactly 1 game at the D1 level, and would not have played even if he was eligible last year because he was not good enough (Kostas). 1 has played a maximum of ~7 minutes of a single game and had a career high of 5 points coming into the year. (I don't remember and I'm not looking it up.) Josh Cunningham was injured for all but 11 games last year, and he logged MORE THAN TRIPLE the number of minutes as Trey did last year. Trey is basically a freshman, along with Kostas, so we really have 5 freshmen.

So the senior class is depleted, the junior class averages out to be more like sophomores, and the sophomore class averages out to have less experience (52 minutes of total game time) than a single freshmen at most schools. We have a senior, a junior, a sophomore, and a bunch of freshmen.

Not all class rankings are created equal. Just because we've got a few juniors and sophomores (and we'll just ignore the class imbalance that leaves us with a single senior) doesn't mean we're as experienced as any other school with a bunch of juniors and sophomores.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:18 PM
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.....And we don't have Jordan Sibert.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Well we should win every game if we have 7 starters.

But, I think the real starting lineup is 1 senior, 3 juniors, and a 21 year old freshman, with a sophomore and a RS freshman coming first off the bench. But let's explore that a little more.

We have 1 senior. Not bad, not great.

We have 3 juniors. 1 is pretty good. 1 has only played 1 year of basketball due to injury and missing almost the entire next year. 1 has played 2 years of poor basketball; limited minutes have resulted. So of the 3 juniors we have only 1 who has significantly contributed for more than 1 year of his career.

We have "2" sophomores. 1 has played exactly 1 game at the D1 level, and would not have played even if he was eligible last year because he was not good enough (Kostas). 1 has played a maximum of ~7 minutes of a single game and had a career high of 5 points coming into the year. (I don't remember and I'm not looking it up.) Josh Cunningham was injured for all but 11 games last year, and he logged MORE THAN TRIPLE the number of minutes as Trey did last year. Trey is basically a freshman, along with Kostas, so we really have 5 freshmen.

So the senior class is depleted, the junior class averages out to be more like sophomores, and the sophomore class averages out to have less experience (52 minutes of total game time) than a single freshmen at most schools. We have a senior, a junior, a sophomore, and a bunch of freshmen.

Not all class rankings are created equal. Just because we've got a few juniors and sophomores (and we'll just ignore the class imbalance that leaves us with a single senior) doesn't mean we're as experienced as any other school with a bunch of juniors and sophomores.
1st of all you know darn well I didn't say we have 7 starters. "with a sophomore and a RS freshman coming first off the bench." would make that clear to anyone with at least a 3 digit IQ(maybe you didn't know). I was naming the experience on our team. And the rest of what you posted is exactly what I called it "projected pass".

This team has had 4 very successful seasons in a row which raised the bar. The Xaviers of the world reload losses of many starters quite often and go through an early adjustment period but by season's end are always in the hunt. That's what this team should be. If not, than it wasn't a rebuilding year, just a disappointing one.

Last edited by Smitty10; 11-16-2017 at 01:25 PM..
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:48 PM
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I think it's fair to say that it's a development year. That has all the drama that goes with having a good fairly young team of players who have not spent enough time on the court together.
Too many tenured and skilled players to be labeled a rebuilding year.

They could develop fast and we all certainly hope so. But we could go through some trying times as well.

Anthony has coached 9 seasons and averaged 24 wins in 6 of those seasons. The other three seasons he averaged 16 wins. I think this team has the potential to achieve one of his better seasons, but the probability of achieving the latter.

Might be more dependent upon the skills of the staff.

2 cents
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
.....And we don't have Jordan Sibert.
And we won't next year or the year after or the year after, I guess we're in perpetual rebuild forever.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by udx2 View Post
Ball State demolished 108-69.
I didn't know Billy Tubbs was back coaching the Sooners?
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
And we won't next year or the year after or the year after, I guess we're in perpetual rebuild forever.
It never even occurred to me that this year might be considered a re-building year, until folks on here starting posting such sentiments. And I disagree with such sentiments.

Nobody thought UD would make the NCAAT in Archie's 3rd, 4th, or 5th year, yet we did. And now, everybody wants to just give out a pass on this year just because we have a new coach. Such thinking makes zero sense.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It never even occurred to me that this year might be considered a re-building year, until folks on here starting posting such sentiments. And I disagree with such sentiments.

Nobody thought UD would make the NCAAT in Archie's 3rd, 4th, or 5th year, yet we did. And now, everybody wants to just give out a pass on this year just because we have a new coach. Such thinking makes zero sense.
You have more faith in Darrell Davis and John Crosby over the length of the season than I do. I hope I'm wrong and they are great upper class leaders the whole season.

I also doubted Josh coming into the year being what he was pre-injury, but he's definitely looked the part early on. We need him to play big night in and night out. First Team A-10 kind of play.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It never even occurred to me that this year might be considered a re-building year, until folks on here starting posting such sentiments. And I disagree with such sentiments.

Nobody thought UD would make the NCAAT in Archie's 3rd, 4th, or 5th year, yet we did. And now, everybody wants to just give out a pass on this year just because we have a new coach. Such thinking makes zero sense.
Exactly. A rebuilding year is when you have a Freshman Brian Roberts and Norman Plummer and Jimmie Binnie and you're led by a Monty Scott, Warren Williams and Mark Jones. With Logan Whites and James Cripes on the bench. This is light years ahead of that.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
You have more faith in Darrell Davis and John Crosby over the length of the season than I do. I hope I'm wrong and they are great upper class leaders the whole season.

I also doubted Josh coming into the year being what he was pre-injury, but he's definitely looked the part early on. We need him to play big night in and night out. First Team A-10 kind of play.
Going into 2013-2014 season, I didn't have much faith in Oliver, Price or Kavs. Going into 2014-2015 nobody here had faith that a Scoochie Smith, Kyle Davis and Kendall Pollard could carry the load. Something happens to a player when they are handed the responsibility of leadership and playing time, they own it and improve.
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:56 PM
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In truth, what the heck does it matter what any of us think. The players, coaches and support staff should never enter a season thinking "rebuild", but the fans, if they want to temper expectations or ramp them up, it has zero effect on the outcome of any game. Enjoy the ride, there's likely to be some turbulence along the way.
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
1st of all you know darn well I didn't say we have 7 starters. "with a sophomore and a RS freshman coming first off the bench." would make that clear to anyone with at least a 3 digit IQ(maybe you didn't know). I was naming the experience on our team. And the rest of what you posted is exactly what I called it "projected pass".

This team has had 4 very successful seasons in a row which raised the bar. The Xaviers of the world reload losses of many starters quite often and go through an early adjustment period but by season's end are always in the hunt. That's what this team should be. If not, than it wasn't a rebuilding year, just a disappointing one.
You didn't say first off the bench, which is why it was a joke Francis.

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It never even occurred to me that this year might be considered a re-building year, until folks on here starting posting such sentiments. And I disagree with such sentiments.

Nobody thought UD would make the NCAAT in Archie's 3rd, 4th, or 5th year, yet we did. And now, everybody wants to just give out a pass on this year just because we have a new coach. Such thinking makes zero sense.
And to both of you: I didn't think it would be a rebuilding year either. Until I saw the players on the court. I just don't think we're that good.

_avier has 4 seniors this year. Last year they had 3. The year before that, 3. The year before that 2. The year before that, 1. . . and started sophomore, junior, junior, junior, senior, and by the way, the sophomore went pro after his sophomore year and is currently playing for the OK City Thunder.

You can want anything that makes you happy, and be upset about rebuilding if that floats your boat, but wishes aren't fishes. There are no sophomores on this roster going pro after this year and getting drafted. We've got a bunch of kids who are pretty raw and need time to develop, and our senior isn't good enough to carry us.

Carrying on: the year before that: 3 seniors. Before that: 3. Before that: 3.

Getting tired of looking. You get the point. You can't just look at this team and say "you're not rebuilding" any more than you can look at a Sean Finn and say "start making 5 three point shots per game."

Last edited by Gazoo; 11-16-2017 at 05:19 PM..
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  #34  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Carrying on: the year before that: 3 seniors. Before that: 3. Before that: 3.
???

Sibert

Pierre

Kavanaugh, Sanford, and Oliver
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
???

Sibert

Pierre

Kavanaugh, Sanford, and Oliver
Yeah, he tends to ramble alternative facts. Either that or he thinks senior walkons contribute more to winning than junior scholarships.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:06 PM
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It never even occurred to me that this year might be considered a re-building year, until folks on here starting posting such sentiments. And I disagree with such sentiments.

Nobody thought UD would make the NCAAT in Archie's 3rd, 4th, or 5th year, yet we did. And now, everybody wants to just give out a pass on this year just because we have a new coach. Such thinking makes zero sense.

Just because we have a new coach??? I guess you're right. Losing four senior starters, the class with the most wins in UD history, has nothing to do with it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:37 PM
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Let's start a list now. 1st name on it is longtimefan. The list? Anthony Grant Apologists.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Let's start a list now. 1st name on it is longtimefan. The list? Anthony Grant Apologists.
So you don't think losing four senior starters should have an impact on the team. Ok.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
So you don't think losing four senior starters should have an impact on the team. Ok.
Impact NOT EQUAL TO rebuilding
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Just because we have a new coach??? I guess you're right. Losing four senior starters, the class with the most wins in UD history, has nothing to do with it.
Fair enough, I will give Grant 2 mulligans. He should be able to make the NCAAT by year 3 though.

I feel that our program should be able to make the NCAAT pretty much every single year though, regardless of departures.

Archie made the NCAAT in year 4 or 5 with around 7 healthy guys, including a walk-on.

Last edited by ud2; 11-17-2017 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
???

Sibert

Pierre

Kavanaugh, Sanford, and Oliver
Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, he tends to ramble alternative facts. Either that or he thinks senior walkons contribute more to winning than junior scholarships.
Uh, those guys played for UD not _avier, geniuses. I can see how you might have missed that since I started the paragraph "_avier has 4 seniors this year. . . "

And by "geniuses" I was being sarcastic. And in case you missed it, I was being sarcastic toward you. Just thought you might need that spelled out for you.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Uh, those guys played for UD not _avier, geniuses. I can see how you might have missed that since I started the paragraph "_avier has 4 seniors this year. . . "

And by "geniuses" I was being sarcastic. And in case you missed it, I was being sarcastic toward you. Just thought you might need that spelled out for you.
Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
_avier has 4 seniors this year. Last year they had 3. The year before that, 3. The year before that 2. The year before that, 1. . . and started sophomore, junior, junior, junior, senior, and by the way, the sophomore went pro after his sophomore year and is currently playing for the OK City Thunder.

You can want anything that makes you happy, and be upset about rebuilding if that floats your boat, but wishes aren't fishes. There are no sophomores on this roster going pro after this year and getting drafted. We've got a bunch of kids who are pretty raw and need time to develop, and our senior isn't good enough to carry us.

Carrying on: the year before that: 3 seniors. Before that: 3. Before that: 3.

You'll have to excuse us. Yes, apparently you were repeating yourself, however your posts are too ridiculous and rather boring to go back and read a 2nd time trying to figure out if you're repeating yourself minus a reference of who in the heck you're talking about. Xavier wasn't mentioned the 2nd time so please don't blame us for failing to comprehend your poorly assembled ramble.
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