Next years schedule

[longtimefan]

Fantastic game! So we already have 14 road/neutral games.

[John C.]

Pregame at my house!

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by ud2 Yep, I am quickly coming around to agreeing with this line of thinking. Once or twice a year we might have to abandon the demand for a home and home series and just start offering 1 way road games with no strings attached vs. beatable opponents.

There is a very big string attached -- a $500,000 one every time you choose to do this. Unless of course you want to write the check the cover it.

[sheg]

That's a nearly certain quad one game. Will be very difficult. St. Mary's will be ranked preseason.

I'll be rooting for St. Mary's Institute to knock off St. Mary's College.

[OSU Flyer]

Reports from Sully on Twitter that Delaware State is the mainland game
Posted via Mobile Device

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Maybe our AD and St. Marys AD can have a nice dinner the night before, and discuss a future home and home face to face!

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Maybe our AD and St. Marys AD can have a nice dinner the night before, and discuss a future home and home face to face!

Anyone know of a good BBQ joint in Phoenix?

[sheg]

Respectable barbecue joints never call it "BBQ."

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Chris R There is a very big string attached -- a $500,000 one every time you choose to do this. Unless of course you want to write the check the cover it.

More whining...Xavier, Temple, etc. went without that extra $ for many years, and they still go without some years...do you want to get to the next level or not?...suck it up buttercup.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by ud2 More whining...Xavier, Temple, etc. went without that extra $ for many years, and they still go without some years...do you want to get to the next level or not?...suck it up buttercup.

You're the one that came up with the idea. Why dont YOU pay for it? Its easy to spend other peoples' money.

[OSU Flyer]

Gotta give Neil and the school credit for this one. A chance for some real resume boosters with the neutral games

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Chris R You're the one that came up with the idea. Why dont YOU pay for it? Its easy to spend other peoples' money.

Rather than always pushing this back to me, why don't you address my point? Do you think these other schools held a single person accountable for this bill? The answer is obviously no.

If you are not willing to make some sacrifices and be more flexible with the demands you make of other schools as a precondition to playing you, then the schedule will never get better

You have to quit raising so many objections such as x number of days off between games and just take what you can get.

If the situation really is as desperate as you say, then you should be willing to make some financial sacrifices and be a lot more flexible.

[John C.]

Amazing! 12,000 posts and maybe two ideas.

[AZFlyer85]

I like the double header:

One game for Catholics.

One game for evangelical Christians.

[longtimefan]

ud2, I guess you missed the fact that Neil just got St Mary's for a neutral game. Instead of (or perhaps even in addition to) whining about what we don't have, why don't you give him a shout out for getting this game. Crickets.

[LI2UD2PA]

I know they are a "bottom dweller" but as we recruit more from NYC how about playing Fordham home and away with the away as part of a double header at the Garden tied into a St Johns Big East game. Gets us out of Rose Hill and into the big time venue of the Garden.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by ud2 If the situation really is as desperate as you say, then you should be willing to make some financial sacrifices and be a lot more flexible.

I would like to hear your financial sacrifice first. It was your idea. Not mine or anyone else's. Tell us your skin in the game and then others can decide if they wish to participate in your plan.

[hawkoooo]

Indiana State
Delaware State
Maui (N)
Maui (N)
Maui (N)
Colorado (N, Chicago)
Saint Mary's (N, Phoenix)

Since the mainland game is (almost) confirmed, that leaves 6 more to go. Really, really liking this schedule so far. Would like to see 1-2 true road games added, but not holding my breath.

[TA111]

Congrats to Neil and staff for getting some really good non con games. Early December is a nice time to go to Phoenix.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Would like to see 1-2 true road games added, but not holding my breath.

Two more road games would give us more road/neutral games than home games. I doubt that will happen. I could see one road game being added.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Two more road games would give us more road/neutral games than home games. I doubt that will happen. I could see one road game being added.

Good point, did not think about the total amount given all the already-scheduled neutral contests. One would still be nice. I get nervous about the idea of no true road games prior to conference play. Those tests are needed so the rigors of conference play can be managed.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Reports from Sully on Twitter that Delaware State is the mainland game Posted via Mobile Device

John Crosby's new team.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Jon Rothstein ‏ Verified account @JonRothstein 6m6 minutes ago More Saint Mary's will face Dayton in a neutral site game in Phoenix on December 8, 2019, per release. Good Game

Now I just need to find a tech conference I must attend in AZ in early December
Posted via Mobile Device

[sheg]

https://www.vegasmeansbusiness.com/e...ntions_169841/

The Talking Stick Resort is four hours from Vegas.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by CE80 Anyone know of a good BBQ joint in Phoenix?

You should be saving your money for the 4th Annual Royal Roundtable Luncheon. Since you're buying, you'll need it.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud2 More whining...Xavier, Temple, etc. went without that extra $ for many years, and they still go without some years...do you want to get to the next level or not?...suck it up buttercup.

So Dayton = Temple again. Regardless of the fact that Temple is a public, not private, school.

You're truly unbelievable, you can blind yourself to facts in amazing numbers.

Yes, we could sacrifice women's tennis, men's baseball, football, etc. and just have 1 athletic program. Or raise tuition. Or cut the coach's salary. There are lots of things you CAN do if you're only solving for 1 variable but that's not the job of the athletic department. They're solving for multiple variables simultaneously while armchair quarterbacks like you sit back and say how easy it should be to solve for a single variable.

Yes, ud2, you could take the easy way out and solve for a single variable. There, feel better? Now duck because you just pulled the wrong stone out of the wall and all the other problems are going to come crashing down on your head.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by rollo You should be saving your money for the 4th Annual Royal Roundtable Luncheon. Since you're buying, you'll need it.

Don't you worry about me.

[lhsgolf19]

Jon Rothstein
‏
Verified account

@JonRothstein
4m4 minutes ago
More
Source: Dayton will host Nebraska Omaha on November 19th as part of its 19-20 non-conference schedule.

Pretty darn good buy game... Finished 2nd in the Summit last year and was a win away from the NCAAs

[hawkoooo]

Indiana State
Delaware State
Omaha
Maui (N)
Maui (N)
Maui (N)
Colorado (N, Chicago)
Saint Mary's (N, Phoenix)

These are not really in order, by the way. 5 games left to be announced.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Indiana State Delaware State Omaha Maui (N) Maui (N) Maui (N) Saint Mary's (N, Phoenix) Colorado (N, Chicago) These are not really in order, by the way. 5 games left to be announced.

There, now they are. Although since Delaware State hasn't been announced we don't know the date. I assume it will be prior to the actual Maui.

[UDGutter2]

Omaha only lost 2 seniors off of last year's team.

[cj]

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...UmgM8PMgQuHjK/

Nothing new, just an article in the DDN.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by Chris R There is a very big string attached -- a $500,000 one every time you choose to do this. Unless of course you want to write the check the cover it.

Originally Posted by Chris R You're the one that came up with the idea. Why dont YOU pay for it? Its easy to spend other peoples' money.

That figure, if accurate, is the opportunity cost of sacrificing a home game to play a one off road game, correct? Not an actual expense. The AD makes the same sacrifice when playing neutral games, H/H's, exempt tourney's, so it seems a little unfair to only bring up the financial ramifications when it involves a one off road game.

The hesitation I would have, and I'm sure the AD does as well, is that a one off road game puts UD in a competitive disadvantage compared to other scheduling arrangements. Not ideal, but it may be necessary some season where we are in a weaker exempt tourney and don't have the quality games lined up be other means.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Indiana State Delaware State Omaha Maui (N) Maui (N) Maui (N) Colorado (N, Chicago) Saint Mary's (N, Phoenix) These are not really in order, by the way. 5 games left to be announced.

Don’t expect any great games at home this year. It’s rare we start a P5 OOC game starting at home. IF there is an attractive H/H series opponent it would probably start on the road. I doubt that is the case given there are two neutral games on the schedule and Chris’s discussion regarding the financial reality of having X number of home games.

At this point, I’d be happy with a 2 for 1 opponent starting at home that is above some of the lower buy games. Someone like Murray State or a MAC school that is projected to be good over the next several years

[OSU Flyer]

If Delaware State brings John Crosby back to the arena

Has UD ever played a former player before
Posted via Mobile Device

[Runnin' Rebel]

So it looks like our 5 neutral games (depending on Maui match-ups), and the away VCU game will be our shot at any Quad 1 wins... correct?

Not sure if Colorado will be top 50 though.

Maybe RI away too I guess?

Maybe VCU and Davidson at home, if lucky?


(Quadrant 1: Home 1-30; Neutral 1-50; Away 1-75)

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel So it looks like our 5 neutral games (depending on Maui match-ups), and the away VCU game will be our shot at any Quad 1 wins... correct? Not sure if Colorado will be top 50 though. Maybe RI away too I guess? Maybe VCU and Davidson at home, if lucky? (Quadrant 1: Home 1-30; Neutral 1-50; Away 1-75)

Kansas and Michigan State are sure fire Quad 1s. VCU on the road barring disaster

St. Mary's should be one

Colorado, I think should be top 50 but I'd be less confident about them than St. Mary's

I think you're right on the money on the rest. VCU/Davidson you hope at home

The dream is that Rhode Island and maybe some other teams could sneak into the 60-75 range for a road Quad 1 win but that might be wishful thinking

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by cj https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...UmgM8PMgQuHjK/ Nothing new, just an article in the DDN.

a couple interesting things to me

-holding out some dates for a H/H series

-every scenario is on the table, including playing a road game without a return

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel So it looks like our 5 neutral games (depending on Maui match-ups), and the away VCU game will be our shot at any Quad 1 wins... correct? Not sure if Colorado will be top 50 though. Maybe RI away too I guess? Maybe VCU and Davidson at home, if lucky? (Quadrant 1: Home 1-30; Neutral 1-50; Away 1-75)

This is exactly why a more flexible conference pairing system would be beneficial. Does it not blatantly hurt the conference that Dayton and Davidson don't play twice?

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This is exactly why a more flexible conference pairing system would be beneficial. Does it not blatantly hurt the conference that Dayton and Davidson don't play twice?

Not pairing Davidson and Dayton was the worst scheduling mistake this season.

Davidson is paired with Fordham

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[Bigtimeflyersguy]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Not pairing Davidson and Dayton was the worst scheduling mistake this season. Davidson is paired with Fordham

I hate this take. Love your posts, but I hate this take. I said the same thing last year and I will say it again this year- I am happy about our pairings.

The world does not revolve around Dayton comma period. There are 13 other schools in this league who also needed to find pairings.

Make a list in your head of the top 5 teams you’d want to pair against. Mine is SLU, VCU, Davidson, URI, and St. Bonaventure. So 3/5 of our pairings are ideal based on my list. Now find me a school in the a10 with more than 3 ideal pairings according to my list or yours. I believe that would be difficult.

Bottom line is that our pairings are solid. Unrealistic scheduling expectations are too easily disappointing.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[OSU Flyer]

It’s not just Dayton that needs the game but Davidson too. They’re in the same boat with scheduling that we are

The A10 when it’s creating it’s schedule first priority should be setting up the top schools for positioning in regards to post season play. By any prognosticator or projection that’s VCU, Dayton and Davidson next season. The schools and the league have literally millions of dollars on the line with tourney berths

Scheduling for everyone in this conference is getting harder and no one in the A10 can count on the quality of wins in conference play they could 5-6 years ago

There’s the argument it’s just one game but we’ve seen UD be the last team in the tourney in in 15, Bonna get jobbed the next year and then 2 years ago they squeak into the First Four

Small margin of error for an A10 getting into the field. That one extra quad 1 game could be a tourney bid<br
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

The other side of the coin is what good is it doing for Fordham playing Davidson twice. Not only is that no win for Davidson it’s no win for Fordham. Fordham getting smacked around a second game by the Wildcats isn’t doing that program any favors

Same logic applies to UD UMass

The only pairings that matter are Davidson, VCU & UD playing each other and your top 3 avoiding Fordham and whoever else is on your bottom 2-3 doormat list

The best interest for all 14 A10 schools is to have as many schools make the NCAA tourney as possible. Those benefits (financial & intangible like conference prestige) trickle down to Duquesne and Fordham. Duquesne can hire Keith Dambrot as a coach because the A10 is a multibid league on the strength of VCU, UD, URI, Davidson, etc

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This is exactly why a more flexible conference pairing system would be beneficial. Does it not blatantly hurt the conference that Dayton and Davidson don't play twice?

This is how I read it. I think conferences like the A10 will have to step up and realize they will have to move to a system where possibly they take the coaches or AD pre-season poll early - and factor it in to who plays who twice. They have to realize how to work the system which is clearly now more than ever slanted to the P5+NBE. It will also place more pressure on the bottom dwellers to get their act together. I realize they will also have to restructure how and who gets into the conference tournament. If the goal is to keep the conference a 3+ bid conference you have to rethink conference scheduling.

And for the record, I was talking about this for volleyball years ago which still runs under the old rpi system. We were scheduled twice against LaSalle year after year and LaSalle’s rpi back then was around 300. Our rpi dropped 8+ everytime we played them. Having them twice could have knocked us out of an at-large bid. Luckily back then we won the conference tourney every year, but conference scheduling could have cost us an NCAA bid.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Phi Psi Flyer '09]

Originally Posted by BeckysTXA This is how I read it. I think conferences like the A10 will have to step up and realize they will have to move to a system where possibly they take the coaches or AD pre-season poll early - and factor it in to who plays who twice. They have to realize how to work the system which is clearly now more than ever slanted to the P5+NBE. It will also place more pressure on the bottom dwellers to get their act together. I realize they will also have to restructure how and who gets into the conference tournament. If the goal is to keep the conference a 3+ bid conference you have to rethink conference scheduling. And for the record, I was talking about this for volleyball years ago which still runs under the old rpi system. We were scheduled twice against LaSalle year after year and LaSalle’s rpi back then was around 300. Our rpi dropped 8+ everytime we played them. Having them twice could have knocked us out of an at-large bid. Luckily back then we won the conference tourney every year, but conference scheduling could have cost us an NCAA bid.

The fact that the A10 isn't doing this shows just how far behind the 8 ball the conference is. VCU/Dayton/Davidson should have all had H&Hs this year. We know so much about the upcoming season by June. Who is coming back/who lost coaches/etc have to be taken into consideration. I don't care that UMass can't fill their stadium and the few hundred fans Dayton brings helps. Put the conference in position to get the most NCAAT bids.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Bigtimeflyersguy Now find me a school in the a10 with more than 3 ideal pairings according to my list or yours. I believe that would be difficult.

That simply shows that the A-10 front office is clueless.

[TommyGola]

There is a complete lack of awareness of the basketball environment and leadership is not there.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Bigtimeflyersguy The world does not revolve around Dayton comma period. Posted via Mobile Device

The world does revolve around the conference being good, and having the best teams play each other is part of that. There is simply no logical argument to be made, whatsoever, that Dayton and Davidson should not play each other twice. None. Like some others have said, maybe we should just schedule the 2nd game in non-con play.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo The world does revolve around the conference being good, and having the best teams play each other is part of that. There is simply no logical argument to be made, whatsoever, that Dayton and Davidson should not play each other twice. None. Like some others have said, maybe we should just schedule the 2nd game in non-con play.

The good thing about playing ooc is that, that game would not count in the conference standings. While we want to play a strong in conference schedule, we don't want one of the mediocre conference teams getting a double bye in the conference tourney at the expense of one of the better teams playing a more difficult conference schedule.

[TXFlyerFan]

We say we want to pair the top teams twice vs lower teams, and I get that, but what other conference does this? I can't recall any conference determining schedules based on how strong they think teams will be and then ensuring they get paired up twice. Maybe it happens, but I'm not aware of it.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo The world does revolve around the conference being good, and having the best teams play each other is part of that. There is simply no logical argument to be made, whatsoever, that Dayton and Davidson should not play each other twice. None. Like some others have said, maybe we should just schedule the 2nd game in non-con play.

There are logical reasons against doing what is being suggested.

1. What has UD done while in the A10 to deserve preferential treatment?

2. Wasn't St Joes projected in the top 3 last year? How did that work out for them and how would it have negatively affected us
If we hadn’t played VCU and RI twice last year and that weak schedule had kept us out of NCAA?

3. No other conferences are doing this so why is A10 out of touch and clueless?

4. UD has the freedom to do this on their own if they feel slighted in the POD selections

5. What is the effect of the big boys beating up on each other while the ‘best of the worst’ say UMASS running the table in the POD matchups and wins the A10 with 14-4 and 16-14 overall records?
Posted via Mobile Device

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan We say we want to pair the top teams twice vs lower teams, and I get that, but what other conference does this? I can't recall any conference determining schedules based on how strong they think teams will be and then ensuring they get paired up twice. Maybe it happens, but I'm not aware of it.

Conference USA now does its H/H at the end of February to ensure the best teams are matched up after 14 conference games
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

Generally the Pods in the ACC and B1G are matching up the best teams
Posted via Mobile Device

[CE80]

Originally Posted by djsully082 Wanted to provide clarification: UD is being stuck with Delaware St and currently trying their best to get out of it, since it is a "no-win" situation from a scheduling standpoint (much like they tried last year w/ Coppin St). So if you DO NOT see Delaware St on the schedule, Neil Sullivan did his job playing hardball with open dates. We've heard an ACC team is still in the mix to be put on the schedule, but as it stands things are shaping up very strong in the NC, as UD will have at least 4 or 5 opportunities for good wins. Neutral site games are clearly the way of the future for programs like us, and this season reflects that. There's nothing inherently wrong with it outside of playing in an empty arena. As many have pointed out on this thread, the A10 needs to get their head out of their ass when it comes to pairings. There is nothing to be gained by having two of your best teams (UD, DAV) play Fordham and UMass twice. Their objective should be strategically getting the most "quality matchups" possible (for NCAA seeding and possible TV games), and in that regard, they have fallen short again. Not to mention they barely changed any of the H/H's from last season. While the conference doesn't "revolve" around UD, the success of the A10 does revolve around making sure the top teams are playing the other top teams as much as possible. There is simply no argument to the contrary. Love talking scheduling, can't help myself. DMs are always open on twitter to discuss. -Sully

OMG - this really is the beginning of the end. BBR and UDP banding together....just kidding.

Is Del State really that bad of a game? If it is not Q1/2 does the opponent make a difference? Doesn't NET come into play? Didn't NC State inflate their NET by playing a bunch of cr@p teams last year. They may have been hurt because they played too many cr@ppy teams but a few tossed in there to boost the NET may not be all bad.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[UACFlyer]

The solution to all this angst is dropping the NIT, which the NCAA owns, and expanding the Dance to 96 teams, stilll less than 1/3 of Div 1.

On day one the top 32 get a bye and 64 engage in "play-in" games. The First Four is dropped in favor of the First 64, essentially.

Scheduling problem solved. Dayton is always going to be among the top 96...the goal will be to get a first round bye.

What in the world could be simpler?

[NorthwestFlyer]

This situation of pairings can somewhat be automatically done year to year based on performance if we went to a promotion relegation system. It could be a 2 or 3 tier system, that gets split into groups for seeding in the tournament, so only the best four teams in the top division get a bye, or at least the tie breaker. If a team has a good year, they bump a team from the next division if they outperform them, so Duquesne, who has often struggled, hires a good coach, has a decent showing and now gets moved up to the next division, and pairs H/H with better teams. I think this would send a strong message to the lesser performers of the conference to fix it, or stay at the lower tier. NCAA$ could also be allocated in a greater proportion to the upper division teams.

As it is now, an upper and lower division would make sense with the top 7 playing H/H (12 games) and then playing 1 game with the lower tier, but skipping one team (6 games). So VCU skips Fordham, Davidson skips UMass, Dayton skips GW, etc. for 2019. If you are the best of the lower division, you still get the best six of the top division and can have a breakout year by killing it in the lower division and winning against the top 6.

Anyways - adding a team to the conference would get us to an interesting three pod/division/tier (whatever it should be called) system. It could also make the A10 more of a desirable basketball conference for schools that are up and coming, or get shaken out during the next P5 expansion.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[John C.]

NWF, I like your concept. Maybe it would get the cellar dwellers concerned they might get kicked out and actually try to be competitive.

Some of these schools just need to realize they are in the wrong conference which hurts them in the long run.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by John C. NWF, I like your concept. Maybe it would get the cellar dwellers concerned they might get kicked out and actually try to be competitive. Some of these schools just need to realize they are in the wrong conference which hurts them in the long run.

John, as you know, rarely does a school get booted out of a conference. But, there is a precedent. Back in the days when the Old Big East was a credible BCS conference Temple football was very poor, well below conference "standards". The Conference handled the matter this way. Temple was given a few years (maybe three?) to shape up in every way, facilities, performance, etc.

Again, as I recall, after the time expired Temple still had not met the required standards and requested an extension which was granted. By the five year mark TU still was not up to snuff and was booted from the BE. That was then; this is now and TU has a more-than-credible FB program in the AAC.

The A10 could do something similar. Temple FB was required to meet attendance standards. That's a bit difficult to impose; but not impossible. For sure there is no reason to tolerate failure to invest in facilities that meet expected standards. A member that refuses to do that is essentially electing to withdraw from the conference.

An example might be St. Joes in Philly. Philly is a pro sports town. There is little if anything SJU could do to draw 6000 fans, lets say. Nonetheless, BB is important to SJU as demonstrated by a substantial investment in recent years to develop facilities expected of a program that cares about excellence in BB. As I understand it, Fordham and LaSalle continue to use facilities that do not meet even minimal standards. It's not unreasonable for the A10 to insist in investment by such schools to bring their facilities up to an acceptable level over a reasonable time. Everyone knows recruiting is impacted by facilities....so performance benefits. Failure to do so essentially amounts to a decision to withdraw from the conference, Fordham invests in scholarship FB fercryinoutloud!

Re attendance, while there's nothing a school can do get 6000 people to turn out, attendance below a certain level surely suggests understandable institutional reluctance to invest. Perhaps that is the signal that a school is in the wrong conference. The A10 average is about 5000. Maybe a required average of 2000 is reasonable.

The specifics are less important than the concept. If the A10 tolerates a member with facilities that by any standard are unacceptable...in my mind that indicates the Conference is not serious about remaining a top-tier BB conference. It surprises me that the other A10 members tolerate it....apparently applying no pressure on laggards. That's really disappointing. Schools are not "entitled" to membership. My gosh, what does Neil have to say about this?

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[DGO67]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer The solution to all this angst is dropping the NIT, which the NCAA owns, and expanding the Dance to 96 teams, stilll less than 1/3 of Div 1. On day one the top 32 get a bye and 64 engage in "play-in" games. The First Four is dropped in favor of the First 64, essentially. Scheduling problem solved. Dayton is always going to be among the top 96...the goal will be to get a first round bye. What in the world could be simpler?

Doable and why not? The field in '67 was 24 teams and expansion was beneficial and kept expanding up to the first four a few years ago.
However dropping the NIT would only happen if the revenue dried up. CBI and the others would go down, but who cares if they did?

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer There are logical reasons against doing what is being suggested. 1. What has UD done while in the A10 to deserve preferential treatment? 2. Wasn't St Joes projected in the top 3 last year? How did that work out for them and how would it have negatively affected us If we hadn’t played VCU and RI twice last year and that weak schedule had kept us out of NCAA? 3. No other conferences are doing this so why is A10 out of touch and clueless? 4. UD has the freedom to do this on their own if they feel slighted in the POD selections 5. What is the effect of the big boys beating up on each other while the ‘best of the worst’ say UMASS running the table in the POD matchups and wins the A10 with 14-4 and 16-14 overall records? Posted via Mobile Device

1. scheduling the top teams in the conference against each other is good for the whole conference. It increases the chances of NCAA tourney bids and gives TV better inventory and almost certainly higher rated games. Both of those things are money in the pocket of every A10 member

2. Can't do anything about a team like St. Joe's disappointing. Looking at Davidson playing Fordham H/H, does anyone believe Fordham will be anything other than in the cellar of the A10? That's an obvious bad game.

3. Other conferences are doing this in terms of mirror (H/H) games. Mark Adams got C-USA to change their pods to the top teams playing eachother after the first 14 conference. Virtually every conference with an unbalanced schedule is going to try to pair their top teams together. For the non power conferences that's NCAA bids on the line, for the ACC that's higher rated TV games.

4. They could but it should be done in conference

5. We've got an unbalanced schedule now and teams have benefited from weak pods. The conference title is nice but the big picture is an NCAA tourney resume. UMass in that scenario isn't going to hinder UD getting an at large bid

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[John C.]

Anybody know what a school has to pay to be in the A10? Why else would LaSalle and others bring to the table. I know there are a myriad of other sports but basketball rules the conference. Getting to the NCAA has to be the top priority of every school, not just a handful.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by John C. NWF, I like your concept. Maybe it would get the cellar dwellers concerned they might get kicked out and actually try to be competitive. Some of these schools just need to realize they are in the wrong conference which hurts them in the long run.

Thanks - I think it would really help the conference overall, although, we might have been in the lower tier last year after a rebuilding year. But we got out of the pit quickly and there wouldn't be much issue this year with H/H with VCU, Davidson, St. Bonny, GM, SLU, and Duquesne. I think that matchup last year would have given us 1 quad 2 at home, and 2 quad 1 and 2 quad 2 away games. So probably a little stronger of a conference schedule, and those teams may have ended up stronger since they also would have had a stronger schedule, which maybe bounces VCU up a seed in the NCAA and gets them a more favorable matchup.

Just seems like a good way for the conference to "protect" the better teams and maybe get them that extra step that could punch another ticket to the dance. Like some have said, us playing UMass twice or Davidson playing Fordham twice does nothing for the underdogs, but can only really hurt the better teams in the conference. It could be the straw that bursts a bubble teams bubble should they loose. GW and Fordham were both quad 4 road/home games last year.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by John C. Anybody know what a school has to pay to be in the A10? Why else would LaSalle and others bring to the table. I know there are a myriad of other sports but basketball rules the conference. Getting to the NCAA has to be the top priority of every school, not just a handful.

LaSalle paid nothing, most likely....neither did UD. A half dozen schools were "invited" to join the A10 in `95 after the defection of West Va and Rutgers, as I recall, which left the conference with only seven schools. The A10 needed members.

When a school initiates contact requesting entry I suppose there is a fee. But for sure, it's negotiable.

Bottom line: It depends on who the "needy" party is, the school or the conference. You can be sure the Big East is sticking it to UConn, big time. UConn will pay millions and will not participate financially as a full member for about six years.

In contrast, the A10 would probably pay UConn to join.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[CT Flyer]

UACFlyer - I get your point with the Temple example but they were an associate member and not a full member which may have made it a bit easier to put those requirements on them. I doubt if Temple were a full member that would have happened, especially if they were earning NCAA bids in basketball.

NothwestFlyer - I like the idea as well but last year, based on the previous year's result, we would not have been in that top tier, which would probably have hurt us more (at least for a little while last year we were in the at-large conversation). Perhaps the tier system could be based on a rolling multi-year power rating (two or three year average finish).

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer UACFlyer - I get your point with the Temple example but they were an associate member and not a full member which may have made it a bit easier to put those requirements on them. I doubt if Temple were a full member that would have happened, especially if they were earning NCAA bids in basketball. NothwestFlyer - I like the idea as well but last year, based on the previous year's result, we would not have been in that top tier, which would probably have hurt us more (at least for a little while last year we were in the at-large conversation). Perhaps the tier system could be based on a rolling multi-year power rating (two or three year average finish).

Re the first para CT, good point. Nonetheless, the rationale at the time was that TU's performance/investment was detrimental to the other schools. It seems to me that logic applies to the A10 laggards.

There are about four A10 schools for which men's BB is the flagship sport and which invest accordingly...the four have attendance over 6000. Regular NCAA participation is very important to the four. As Wabler used to say, "more often than not" over a decade. That sounds like a goal of playing in the NCAAs six years in a decade, i.e., "more often than not...and consistently".....a "goal".

There may be another six schools, or so, that have made it to the Dance occasionally over the last 20 years, let's say, and that is of some importance to them, i.e., they don't want it to be a once in a generation happening.

Then there are a few for which an NCAA invite would be a near miracle and they're OK with that. They invest in their men's BB program accordingly...for sure they do not consider men's BB their primary and/or flagship sport.

There is a huge incompatibility between the first and third group. Surely that is clear. Also clear is that the result of that incompatibility is harmful to an important institutional objective of the first group and to some extent even to the second group.

What is the rationale for tolerance of the incompatibility? I really would like to hear Neil's explanation....there may be a good explanation that an outsider like me just doesn't understand.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Buckleyma]

Looking at this year’s Dayton basketball schedule, I am just glad that the team does not have to travel to Olean New York to play St. Bonaventure. Not only was that road game often a trap game but who would look forward to traveling to upstate New York in the deep winter? I am sure that the locals will tell you that it is a fine place in the summer. But, in the winter?
Posted via Mobile Device

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer NothwestFlyer - I like the idea as well but last year, based on the previous year's result, we would not have been in that top tier, which would probably have hurt us more (at least for a little while last year we were in the at-large conversation). Perhaps the tier system could be based on a rolling multi-year power rating (two or three year average finish).

It is indeed harsh to get dumped because of simply a coaching change, young class, etc, but if you stink it up, then you move down until you get it together.

That said, it can't be based on record alone since there would be an unbalanced difficulty in SOS between tiers. So it could be several factors that cause a team to relegate or promote. So one could be NET rankings, OOC SOS rating, Conference record, percentage against top tier/bottom tier, and probably a few others that others can think of off the tops of their heads, so that teams that have an off year aren't so easily relegated, and the same for teams that have one stellar year because of a senior class, etc. Basically - there would be several criteria that a lower tier team would have to achieve over an upper tier team to bump them. Say 3 of 5 criteria with only one being conference record.

So lets say team X (lower tier) kills it in the lower tier and has a mediocre showing against the top tier at .500 in the six games. Team Y (upper tier) is dominant in the games in the lower tier as well, but can't win a road game in the top tier and looses a couple at home and ends up .400 against the top tier in 12 games. Team Y will get relegated if their OOC strength of scheduling is poor, or they just don't perform well and their NET ranking drops, loose to TEAM X head to head, etc. So a bad year, may not be enough to drop a team back. It shouldn't be automatic to move up or down based on record alone, but it shouldn't be hopeless for a junior class to have a great year so that they have a chance at a standout senior year either. So there has to be some burden put on the program as a whole to make the changes, but also the coach and players to have a shot at making their own history despite the cards they are dealt by their program.

I think there would be a lot of turn over in the middle of the pack A10. But it would definitely put pressure on those teams to find the next gear or forever playing the perennial cellar dwellers... because they are a perennial cellar dweller.

I think an example of URI last year is a good one. They struggled and finished a game back of Duquesne. So tossing the record out, since I don't have the time to run through the schedule to come up with a hypothetical record for either team against the top of the A10, if you look at what else URI has footing on, NET, OOC SOS, they may not have been bumped from the top tier last year, but the deciding factor would likely have been based on the percentage of the two teams against the top tier teams. So maybe URI would have held on to their spot, and would have been able to pull it back together this year. Same for UD the year before. Basically, the lower tier team would have to clearly show they out performed another team to move up.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Buster Goode]

Junk home non-conference schedule. A lot of money to watch Indiana State for the best home game outside the A10.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma Looking at this year’s Dayton basketball schedule, I am just glad that the team does not have to travel to Olean New York to play St. Bonaventure. Not only was that road game often a trap game but who would look forward to traveling to upstate New York in the deep winter? I am sure that the locals will tell you that it is a fine place in the summer. But, in the winter? Posted via Mobile Device

UD has had some success AT St. Bonaventure in the last few years. There have been some nice road wins there.

[NorthwestFlyer]

CT Flyer - I gave this some more thought. I guess I really like this idea and think it would make the A10 standout.

So to answer the rolling question, I see two schools of thought. One that helps the more established programs stay in the upper tier, which is generally what everyone in the upper tier would want. But there is a strong and dynamic middle of the pack in the A10 and this should also be base on performance (so the program has to shoulder some responsibility, but the coach and the players can be in the drivers seat).

So to move up the lower tier team has to demonstrate they have outperformed a team in the next tier by something like this, this is five criteria with the "burden" of performance shown in parenthesis. If a team excels on any criteria over another team, they are awarded a point for that criteria, team with the most points takes or maintains the position. The sniff test to do the comparison is the conference record. A team in the lower tier will relegate the next higher team possible if a second or third team in the lower tier is shown to outperform a team in the higher conference. So multiple moves are possible.

Conference record: favors the lower tier teams and is the trigger for relegation scenario (team and coach)
Top tier win percentage: good apples to apples comparison (team and coach)
Head to head results: favors home teams so away then neutral wins tie breakers (team and coach)
OOC SOS: variable results, could be rolling average (program scheduling philosophy)
NET rankings: this should be based on quad rankings (home) and a rolling average (program and team/coach).

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer 1. scheduling the top teams in the conference against each other is good for the whole conference. It increases the chances of NCAA tourney bids and gives TV better inventory and almost certainly higher rated games. Both of those things are money in the pocket of every A10 member 2. Can't do anything about a team like St. Joe's disappointing. Looking at Davidson playing Fordham H/H, does anyone believe Fordham will be anything other than in the cellar of the A10? That's an obvious bad game. 3. Other conferences are doing this in terms of mirror (H/H) games. Mark Adams got C-USA to change their pods to the top teams playing eachother after the first 14 conference. Virtually every conference with an unbalanced schedule is going to try to pair their top teams together. For the non power conferences that's NCAA bids on the line, for the ACC that's higher rated TV games. 4. They could but it should be done in conference 5. We've got an unbalanced schedule now and teams have benefited from weak pods. The conference title is nice but the big picture is an NCAA tourney resume. UMass in that scenario isn't going to hinder UD getting an at large bid

Totally disagree on 4 and each year when 2 happens it could hurt an overachieving team’s chances. Can’t dismiss this reality because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

5 is the one that I would be most afraid of the impact. Almost every year the talking heads say they need to see separation between the top teams and the also rans. Playing nothing but top against top, middle against middle and lowest vs. lowest could be very counterproductive to the 3rd best and possibly 2nd best conference team fighting for an at large.

It’s the same rationale that many power 5 teams don’t schedule any challenging teams in the ooc. They have to have enough winnable games on the schedule before they enter the conference to offset damage of that schedule.

We don’t have that luxury in the non-conf so playing the absolute hardest conf schedule may not help us if our record is questionable and conference is deemed weak. One road win over Davidson if it even occurred likely won’t do that much to overcome the perception as much as the loss will confirm it.

Like most years, our schedule and conference both provided UD ample opportunity To make the tourney in a rebuilding year with 7 guys. The team proved they weren’t deserving by losing twice to VCU and SLU, RI and all but Butler non-con opportunities.

We are UD fans - we place blame where it doesn’t belong, propose logistical nightmare solutions instead of seeing that most years in the past 20 the team’s performance is the only reason we are left out.

Posted via Mobile Device

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[OSU Flyer]

Increasing the chances for quality wins in conference play is only going to help earn at large bids<br />

Disagree on one quality win not being the difference. Bonna & UD have been in the first four (UD was the last team in). 16 Bonnie’s got jobbed. The A10 is clearly working on a small margin of error and another quad 1 win could be the difference between the NIT and NCAA

[Marysville Flyer]

Just win and quit worrying about what anyone else in the conference is doing or how unfairly we are being treated. That’s for losers.

Butler went to 2 straight final fours from the Horizon which makes the A10 look like a P5 conference. Gonzaga has down the same for nearly 20 years until recently when St Mary’s has joined the hunt.

How many years when the A10 averaged 3 bids as UD not invited ?
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[ud2]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Just win and quit worrying about what anyone else in the conference is doing or how unfairly we are being treated. That’s for losers.

A can-do attitude can go a long way.

[sheg]

Yes, winning is paramount. If UD doesn't have 24 wins with this schedule from this conference, it's unlikely to be in the tournament, which is something we're all rightfully saying should be the goal every year. Butler and Gonzaga have proven that getting lots of wins will get you plenty of attention in time.

But there's nothing wrong with looking at ways to improve the schedule and therefore the metrics that UD can put on its tournament resume in March.

Nothing that anybody can do this time of year (except recruiting) can affect the outcomes on the floor. This is this off-season and some people enjoy watching the process.

[UACFlyer]

There may/may not be an entrance fee. Almost always there is an exit fee that can be negotiated, sometimes.

The BE is really sticking to UConn and most likely the AAC will as well. The BE entrance fee is $3.5 million. Get this: The exit fee for the first six years is $30 million; along with a commitment not to seek entry to a P5 conference....plus other stuff that ties UConn's hands for a long time or costs them a fortune.

The AAC exit fee is expected to be North of $10 million. Since the parting of ways is not amicable no one expects that figure to decrease. Rough!

But, UConn's decision surely indicates a commitment to basketball. And with 11 schools there seems little reason to expect the BE to expand.

The wild card in all this is some sort of convulsion such as one or more P5 schools deciding to expand by raiding other P5s. Brutal but hardly impossible when money is the driver.

All this crap has relatively little effect on UD other than the scheduling issue. We need to do but two things: 1) Win! 2) Refer back to #1. (Some innovations in scheduling wouldn't hurt, a few of which have been suggested.)

[CE80]

A few years back, the SEC was UK and another team or 2 depending upon the year. UD was able to schedule SEC teams because they needed to play games against teams like the Flyers. It seems to me that the PAC-12 is beginning to find itself in that position. I would think games with that conference would be a little easier to come by. I know the game conference schedule may have changed the picture.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer https://florida.rivals.com/news/gato...rence-schedule For ud2, Florida's OOC this season. 2 road games, 5 neutral site

Providence College 15 away or neutral games this year:

Florida in Brooklyn, New York
at Northwestern
at Rhode Island
3 neutral exempt tourney games


https://friars.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=359


https://floridagators.com/news/2019/...-brooklyn.aspx

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Providence College 15 away or neutral games this year: Florida in Brooklyn, New York at Northwestern at Rhode Island 3 neutral exempt tourney games https://friars.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=359 https://floridagators.com/news/2019/...-brooklyn.aspx

Is such a thing possible?

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ud2 Providence College 15 away or neutral games this year: Florida in Brooklyn, New York at Northwestern at Rhode Island 3 neutral exempt tourney games https://friars.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=359 https://floridagators.com/news/2019/...-brooklyn.aspx

Hey, ud2. What do you think of the neutral site St Mary's game - pretty good get by Neil, don't you think? The Colorado game too, don't you think?

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Providence College 15 away or neutral games this year: Florida in Brooklyn, New York at Northwestern at Rhode Island 3 neutral exempt tourney games https://friars.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=359 https://floridagators.com/news/2019/...-brooklyn.aspx

One scheduled road games (prob part of H and H) and the rest tournament, at neutral sites or part of an organized tip off event, which is what UD is doing. Rest of away games are conference. Is there something I am missing? Isn't the St. Mary's game part of an event as well?

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[NCkevi]

I opened up this thread thinking there was new info on UD's schedule - What was I thinking????

[TX Flyer]

I had a grilled cheese sandwich for lunch today
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[ud2]

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer One scheduled road games (prob part of H and H) and the rest tournament, at neutral sites or part of an organized tip off event, which is what UD is doing. Rest of away games are conference. Is there something I am missing? Isn't the St. Mary's game part of an event as well?

PC has lined up 7 q1 or q2 ooc games, right now we have 5. I would like to see us get 8 every year: 6 away/neutral and 2 home.

And they are in a much better league than us to boot.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Hey, ud2. What do you think of the neutral site St Mary's game - pretty good get by Neil, don't you think? The Colorado game too, don't you think?

Yes, no complaints. Keep 'em comin' though.

[ud2]

Hey Chris, did you ever get around to asking Neil about my list of teams?

Have we offered a home and home, 2 for 1, or a 1 way road game to all of them?

And I still do not understand how we cannot afford to drop 1 home game but other schools can afford to do this. Why can't we just do a one-time 6%(1/16)ticket price increase then if we have no budget flexibility?

I absolutely hate this concept of establishing our ceiling as a 6 seed.

And I do not at all agree that there is no material difference between a 6 seed and an 11 seed.

And what if VCU bails to the AAC, are we still sticking with the 16/14 scheduling model then? It just feels like that would be whistling past the graveyard.



http://www.udpride.com/forums/showth...ont#post587571

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by ud2 And what if VCU bails to the AAC, are we still sticking with the 16/14 scheduling model then? It just feels like that would be whistling past the graveyard.

Setting aside the rest of the nonsense in this post, such as the idea that a D1 AD should be listening to random nobodies on a message board, if VCU goes to the AAC without us we have a lot more to worry about than a 16/14 scheduling model.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by ud2 Why can't we just do a one-time 6%(1/16)ticket price increase then if we have no budget flexibility?

That's easy to say for someone who is not a season ticket holder and rarely goes to a game. Also, the Seat License fees just went up. Mine went up 33%.

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan That's easy to say for someone who is not a season ticket holder and rarely goes to a game. Also, the Seat License fees just went up. Mine went up 33%.

Mine went up infinitely.

[ortez52]

You do no you have the option of paying for your tickets in payments. Same with the seat license.

[NorthwestFlyer]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo if VCU goes to the AAC without us we have a lot more to worry about than a 16/14 scheduling model.

Which is why the A10 should be doing something creative to protect and promote the higher tier teams in the conference. The bottom teams should not be scheduled against the higher tier teams twice a season, ever. That's my nobody message board opinion.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ortez52 You do no you have the option of paying for your tickets in payments. Same with the seat license.

That doesn't make it cheaper.

[OSU Flyer]

One upside of playing St. Mary's & Colorado on neutral courts in NBA arenas is preparation for the A10 & NCAA tourney

3. Motive for Neutral Court Games
Under Calipari, Kentucky plays in almost as many neutral site games as they play true road games. Some fans frequently complain. Even though I feel like I’ve heard his rationale before, today it made more sense than ever before.

He does it to prepare for the postseason. “In postseason you don’t go on an opponent’s court in front of 19, 20 thousand people going nuts, drunk, screaming, yelling,” Cal said. “It’s postseason. That’s what we play for. That’s why, again, we’ve done pretty well postseason the last seven years.

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/baske...ss-conference/

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by ud2 Hey Chris, did you ever get around to asking Neil about my list of teams?

I answered a few already that were listed by someone. I have not had a chance to interface w/him again in the last few days.

And I do not at all agree that there is no material difference between a 6 seed and an 11 seed.

That was not the original question. The original question was do higher seeds make a big difference for non P5 schools. That doesnt just include the 6v11 game, but also the 7v10 and 8v9 games. I already stated the difference between 7v10 and 8v9 was marginal at best b/c they were pickems' in most seasons by most betting lines. And we know #6 seeds underperform against #11 seeds based on the standard win probabilities.

We dont just have historical data from past NCAA tournaments to underscore this, we have empirical data from our own Flyers to underscore this. The better UD has been seeded, the worse UD has performed. Dayton has not won an NCAA tournament game with a single digit seed since the 1970s. The Flyers have lost in the NCAA first round in every year since 1985 they have earned a single-digit seed: #9, #4, #7, and #7. However UD has won in the NCAA first round as a #12, #11, #11, and #11 in that same timeframe.

The data is the data. Im not AGAINST higher seeds -- it usually means you had a better season, won more games, beat respected teams, perhaps won a conference title, and maybe even gotten ranked. But unless you can crack into the Top-4 seeds to ensure you play a first round game against a one-bid league automatic qualifier, the seeding itself is overblown and most results come down to matchups and style. I dont see UD earning a Top-4 seed any time soon. Its not completely impossible -- Houston did it this past season. But you're gonna have to win darn near 28-30 games heading into Selection Sunday. When was the last time UD won 28 games in the regular season? Never if memory serves.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R I answered a few already that were listed by someone. I have not had a chance to interface w/him again in the last few days. That was not the original question. The original question was do higher seeds make a big difference for non P5 schools. That doesnt just include the 6v11 game, but also the 7v10 and 8v9 games. I already stated the difference between 7v10 and 8v9 was marginal at best b/c they were pickems' in most seasons by most betting lines. And we know #6 seeds underperform against #11 seeds based on the standard win probabilities. We dont just have historical data from past NCAA tournaments to underscore this, we have empirical data from our own Flyers to underscore this. The better UD has been seeded, the worse UD has performed. Dayton has not won an NCAA tournament game with a single digit seed since the 1970s. The Flyers have lost in the NCAA first round in every year since 1985 they have earned a single-digit seed: #9, #4, #7, and #7. However UD has won in the NCAA first round as a #12, #11, #11, and #11 in that same timeframe. The data is the data. Im not AGAINST higher seeds -- it usually means you had a better season, won more games, beat respected teams, perhaps won a conference title, and maybe even gotten ranked. But unless you can crack into the Top-4 seeds to ensure you play a first round game against a one-bid league automatic qualifier, the seeding itself is overblown and most results come down to matchups and style. I dont see UD earning a Top-4 seed any time soon. Its not completely impossible -- Houston did it this past season. But you're gonna have to win darn near 28-30 games heading into Selection Sunday. When was the last time UD won 28 games in the regular season? Never if memory serves.

This may be true but I think you'd want the best seed possible. As whatever the old financial services ad used to say, past performance doesn't predict future results

To me it's all about avoiding the 8/9 7/10 games and a second

[ortez52]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 That doesn't not make it cheaper.

Know it does not, but makes it easier if your on a fixed income

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer As whatever the old financial services ad used to say, past performance doesn't predict future results

Yes there is some benefit in those 2nd round matchups -- thats where the payoff really is. But the first round 6-11 seed games are all basically tossups or close enough to toss-ups that anyone picking any winner in that group doesnt even draw attention. Considering UD has made a bad habit of losing first round games, worrying over down-bracket seeding matchups beyond the first round -- for this program anyway -- seems like a cart/horse proposition in today's climate.

Lets just start winning most of our first round games every year we get an NCAA bid, then we can worry about the down-bracket matchups before we even win the matchups preceding them. I dont think we're at that level yet.

[THirt]

They don’t say specifically if it is part of the Maui Invitational, but Georgia released their home schedule and they are playing Delaware State. Seems likely that is a Maui Mainland game. Doesn’t mean for sure Dayton dodged them, but seems like a good sign.

https://georgiadogs.com/news/2019/7/...edule-set.aspx

Also, most of their schedule: woof.
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[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by THirt They don’t say specifically if it is part of the Maui Invitational, but Georgia released their home schedule and they are playing Delaware State. Seems likely that is a Maui Mainland game. Doesn’t mean for sure Dayton dodged them, but seems like a good sign. https://georgiadogs.com/news/2019/7/...edule-set.aspx Also, most of their schedule: woof. Posted via Mobile Device

The mainland teams typically play 3 or 4 teams that go to Maui so that it can count as an exempt tournament for them. Doesn't mean we dodged them at all.

[OSU Flyer]

Has there ever been any talk of getting rid of the rid of the closed scrimmage and bringing back a 2nd exhibition game?