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  #1  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:47 PM
Fudd Fudd is offline
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Thoughts on Monmouth Game

Well, that was an ugly game. I felt like the tight whistle made us hesitant and got us back on our heels. On top of that we did not play very well.

But good teams find a way to win. And it helps to have Scoochie Smith.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:49 PM
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How's this for a thought? WHEW!!! And, oh yeah - thank God for Scoochie!
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:49 PM
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just win baby
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:51 PM
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A win is a win. Goodnight
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:52 PM
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I'm gonna go out and buy some Just for Men, think my hair just went totally white.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:53 PM
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And so it was written....A man from the Bronx shall lead them.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:56 PM
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i had a scoochie man crush, now it is more. what comes after man crush?
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:56 PM
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Somebody should take Monmouths bench warmers behind the arena and beat the $### out of them. ESPN should be ashamed of themselves for encouraging that.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:57 PM
TheDuke2003 TheDuke2003 is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeymo85 View Post
i had a scoochie man crush, now it is more. what comes after man crush?
Restraining order?
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:59 PM
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Great W despite having to play 5 on 6 there for a while. Even weathermen are more consistent than these clowns.


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  #11  
Old 11-27-2015, 11:59 PM
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My take away from yesterday and today is that giving up good leads at the end of the end has to be seen as a concern. We don't get shaken and come back, which is good and a sign of our experience, but it seems we lose focus and just play to win.

That said we won and that is what is important.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeymo85 View Post
i had a scoochie man crush, now it is more. what comes after man crush?
Jail!
Don't go there.
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:00 AM
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Great win with great indigestion on top of my second Thanksgiving dinner in as many days. They are trying to run clock with the lead but with key players on the bench with foul trouble and the 30 second clock, the result is letting the other team back in. The Flyers will work it out. Go UD and Beat X
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  #14  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:03 AM
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UD has given up leads in the second half, however two things are happening. Starters are not all on the floor when the leads evaporate and they are on the floor and fresher when they are in at the end of the game.

Reserves will improve. Good to let them play and still have wins
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:03 AM
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Scrappy, ugly win against a scrappy, ugly team and scrappy, ugly refs. Solid Defense. Gonna need more out of the freshmen and sophs moving forward. Love Pollard's aggressiveness, but the bull-in-a-china-shop routine lands him on the bench too often with foul trouble. Need Baby D to regain his stroke. Scoochie can't bail us out every night...

...or can he?
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:03 AM
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Really not a fan of the "point of emphasis" this year on hand checks and arm bars.

Archie is playing everybody trying to develop chemistry. It may cost us some late game double digit leads like Iowa and Monmouth but will pay dividends in A-10 play.

Robinson is one helluva PG. I can see why Archie is recruiting Simeon HS PG Evan Gilyard who is cut from the same cloth.

Can you imagine how screwed UD would have been last year with these whistle-crazed zebras.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:04 AM
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Official team gear for the Monmouth bench (players?)

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Old 11-28-2015, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
Somebody should take Monmouths bench warmers behind the arena and beat the $### out of them. ESPN should be ashamed of themselves for encouraging that.
Couldn't agree more. What a joke to be on the team and doing all that, especially while losing. Coach needs to put them in the stands with the student section.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:07 AM
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My concern is, and really isn't because I think they will start falling, is that they have to start hitting a better percentage on the 3s. If we hit half of the wide open 3s, neither yesterday nor today would've been this tight. And on both nights, the opponents were lighting it up for beyond the arc.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:07 AM
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A couple more thoughts:

Our freshmen generally looked like freshmen tonight. All had some good moments, but they all looked bad at times, too. Gotta have more maturity on Sunday.
Baby D did not look good tonight, either. Was slow to close-out on D, and generally a bit out of sorts on O as well. We need the "Oklahoma" Baby D to show up on Sunday.
KP showed signs of breaking out of his funk tonight. Hopefully, that progress can continue on Sunday as well.
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  #21  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:12 AM
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Totally disagree with the bashing of Monmouth's bench. Wouldn't you want the end of bench to have that much passion (and creativity) if it was UD's bench? If anything, diss the production crew from ESPN for playing it up so much but not the kids. They are supporting their team mates and having fun. Don't be a hater!
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Totally disagree with the bashing of Monmouth's bench. Wouldn't you want the end of bench to have that much passion (and creativity) if it was UD's bench? If anything, diss the production crew from ESPN for playing it up so much but not the kids. They are supporting their team mates and having fun. Don't be a hater!
I would've been happy if ESPN would've had a separate camera on them when the final second ticked off and replayed it, after watching that annoying crap all game long, we should've gotten the satisfaction of seeing their demeanor when they realize they lost.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:16 AM
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I don't know I was making fun of thier bench all night but in honesty they were hilarious, and I like that Monmouth plays and has fun, they are a solid team. So what if they are annoying, it seems like they are having a good time and thier pg was ridiculous. Im so glad we won but I'll be rooting for Monmouth all year.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:20 AM
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Big Steve had a terrible game. Arch has to have a better sense for when the momentum swings, using time outs, change of personell or strategy to counter. Both of these games could have gone the other way at the end and they should not have come down to nailbiters. Our margin to make the NCAA is not so great as to chance losing a game that should be over with a double digit lead midway though the last half.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:22 AM
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Monmouth is a solid team. Better than I thought. The biggest problem the Flyers have is the bench units are not clicking. May have to shorten the bench on Sunday and Pollard has to stay out of foul trouble.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:22 AM
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In post game, Archie spoke about giving up easy threes with the lead. His voice was hoarse.

Archie said the officiating was different tonight than any game this year. Refs did seem to take point of emphasis really far.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
In post game, Archie spoke about giving up easy threes with the lead. His voice was hoarse.

Archie said the officiating was different tonight than any game this year. Refs did seem to take point of emphasis really far.
XW and DD struggled on defense. DD has look distracted and out of sync, almost every time he handled the ball he has been having trouble controlling it and he doesn't know how to use the high ball screen late in shot clock. He has played poorly the last two games.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
In post game, Archie spoke about giving up easy threes with the lead. His voice was hoarse.

Archie said the officiating was different tonight than any game this year. Refs did seem to take point of emphasis really far.
It was extreme, and confused our guys on how they could possibly defend someone.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
My concern is, and really isn't because I think they will start falling, is that they have to start hitting a better percentage on the 3s. If we hit half of the wide open 3s, neither yesterday nor today would've been this tight. And on both nights, the opponents were lighting it up for beyond the arc.

Scoochie was 3 for 4 from trey-land, rest of team was 1 for 17.

Both Iowa and Monmouth shot about 50% from beyond the arc. I thought our interior defense was fairly decent both nights...maybe that's the trade-off in opponent's perimeter shooting?

Dayton also had a fair share of open looks from trey and just didn't connect...
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Big Steve had a terrible game. Arch has to have a better sense for when the momentum swings, using time outs, change of personell or strategy to counter. Both of these games could have gone the other way at the end and they should not have come down to nailbiters. Our margin to make the NCAA is not so great as to chance losing a game that should be over with a double digit lead midway though the last half.
We Won. We're 5-0. I'm Happy. Put your application in for Head Coach
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:33 AM
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Box score showed only one block by Steve. That did not seem right. It appeRed that he affected a few shots during the short times he was in there.

3 point shooting and 3 point defense need to improve Sunday.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:34 AM
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working in so many new players/combinations is going to be bumpy. Kendall has to figure out how to stay on the floor.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Totally disagree with the bashing of Monmouth's bench. Wouldn't you want the end of bench to have that much passion (and creativity) if it was UD's bench? If anything, diss the production crew from ESPN for playing it up so much but not the kids. They are supporting their team mates and having fun. Don't be a hater!
Problem is the show is the game not a team's bench. To put them on split screen was ridiculous, IMHO. The bench can do what what ever they want to do, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to watch the game not the bench.
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:40 AM
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Their bench was ludicrous. Cheer for teammates of course. Act happy but act like you expect to win. They showed in their locker room when they beat ND that was their season. We beat a very good team lead by a quality point guard. AM treated this as an OOC game and tested different combos to test his team and win another game. Now on to that other team down south and continue the winning ways.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:43 AM
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Monmouth bench was embarrassing, scrappy team though and I believe this will end up being a nice win for us if/when selection time comes.
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
Problem is the show is the game not a team's bench. To put them on split screen was ridiculous, IMHO. The bench can do what what ever they want to do, as far as I'm concerned, but I want to watch the game not the bench.
Which is EXACTLY my point! Don't diss the kids on the bench, diss ESPN. We live in a reality TV world unfortunately. ESPN is all about the show, and that isn't always on the court in their eyes.
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  #37  
Old 11-28-2015, 12:44 AM
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BTW, let me give the defense props for that last possession. They really did save their best D for the very end.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Which is EXACTLY my point! Don't diss the kids on the bench, diss ESPN. We live in a reality TV world unfortunately. ESPN is all about the show, and that isn't always on the court in their eyes.
Yeah, as much as it annoyed me, I'm guessing that anyone who didn't have a horse in this race was mildly entertained by it. And since ESPN is a national network, is there any doubt they'll play it for all it's worth and more.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Totally disagree with the bashing of Monmouth's bench. Wouldn't you want the end of bench to have that much passion (and creativity) if it was UD's bench? If anything, diss the production crew from ESPN for playing it up so much but not the kids. They are supporting their team mates and having fun. Don't be a hater!
I dont think the bench knew what the score was or even saw half the game. They were more worried about their next skit than what THEIR team was doing.
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2015, 01:21 AM
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We are 5 and O this team we beat tonight beat UCLA at home ,and Notre Dame last night.Archie is getting them ready for conference play .Chill out look around at some of the big boys that are getting beat.Hell relax.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:25 AM
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Guess I missed it. What exactly was their bench doing?
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I dont think the bench knew what the score was or even saw half the game. They were more worried about their next skit than what THEIR team was doing.
Which is why I blame the coach. The cheerleading squad meets on Wednesday nights after the glee club is out of the multipurpose room. If you're on the basketball team how about working on something useful.
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  #43  
Old 11-28-2015, 08:42 AM
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First thought -- Monmouth is one scary good basketball team and when their PG gets hot from the 3, look out. 3-3s in a row and an assist for a 2 in four times down the floor and we were in a dog fight. I don't think we played "bad" D on him -- I thought he just keeps coming at you with his speed and his ability to handle the rock and dish it out. That's very hard to stop every time down the court all night long. When a player is that good, he is going to beat you some possessions. Then throw in the refs were calling it so tight and it plays to his strengths. I thought we did as good of a job as we could on him in these conditions -- and it was enough to win. Our D on Robinson was a plus when you look at the whole game.

2. Our freshmen played like freshmen tonight. It's going to happen. But we played through it and won and that's what counts.

3. I thought we drove/slashed into the paint pretty well, but I though we did a less than stellar job passing into the paint. When we did, we drew some fouls. But we had trouble getting the ball even to the high post and that limited our offense.

4. We missed way too many 3s and many were open shots. Team needs to shoot a couple 1000s in practice between now and Sunday to get us back on track.

5. As a fan, I did not enjoy watching a game that was called the way the refs called this one. I'm not saying they called it wrong or unfairly between the two teams. I'm saying it hurts the product. Way too many whistles for a fan to enjoy the experience of watching college basketball. The powers that be need to be careful what they ask for if it turns fans away.

6. I'm glad the UD bench doesn't act like the Monmouth bench. It's my personal preference. At the same time, I think they are free to knock themselves out with their skits and antics in support of their team. It's college kids and we were all a little crazy back then, so carry on.

7. We only had 9 turnovers and limited them to only 3 steals. That was all good.

8. Hope X spends a ton of time studying this game film because I don't think it's what they will see from Dayton on Sunday. I'll call it a red herring and I hope X bites on it hook, line and sinker.

GO FLYERS!

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  #44  
Old 11-28-2015, 09:46 AM
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Cooke plays great defense most of the time, but twice he left his man wide open by 15 feet trying to double team. They made one of two threes on those. What is he thinking?
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Which is why I blame the coach. The cheerleading squad meets on Wednesday nights after the glee club is out of the multipurpose room. If you're on the basketball team how about working on something useful.
Not sure why we are dissing the kids for having fun or the coach for letting it happen. They are getting behind an underdog team and supporting them, in a quirky way, but they were working it and never gave up. I have to give mad props to their coach, he seemed very classy, was working with everything he had to put that team together, and took the time to say something to Scooch in the line up (I am assuming something admiring). Seemed like a classy coach that was scraping together a heck of a season. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him on the rise in the future.

Split screen by ESPN to show it more than once, over the top.

I have a feeling we will have something less professional to say after Sunday's game. Probably hear something about this not being a true neutral court game, or worse, a fight during the national anthem. Ha!
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:11 AM
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It sure looked to me like we didn't take Monmouth seriously. Archie's hoarse you say. Coincidence? I think the team looked more like a racehorse that was rating the pace of its foes in order to stay close, rather than showing its class and run with a cushy lead.

It was a flat performance except for Scoochie. I think I just heard Robinson swish another jumper. Does he remind any of Keith Braswell?

Think we have a cool situation ready to take place. I assume Archie has a special motivation to beat them and I see the players being motivated by the fans as they chant at a higher level for this upcoming matchup.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:12 AM
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Here is how King Rice (Monmouth's Coach) reacted to the support of Flyer Faithful at the the game. Let's keep it classy against X. I'm sure Chris Mack doesn't want to play UD on a neutral court in a small barn in front of a loud Flyer crowd! Go Flyers Be Loud!!!!!


"I’ll probably get in trouble for saying it, but that was like a home game for Dayton,” Rice said. “I know when they’re in their own building, there’s more of them. But three quarters of the arena was Dayton. They were very gracious. They were nice. They didn’t say a lot of bad things.

“They had a couple drunk guys. When you have drunk people, they mess up the group. Whoever those drunk guys were, maybe they should take a thing from me and not drink anymore. If that’s what you’re doing, that’s not cool. You’re heckling college guys. Really not cool. But their fans were incredible. I hope we can build a fan base like that. We have great fans at Monmouth, but we haven’t won in so long, people don’t come out like that. We strive to be like that. When we get there, Monmouth is going to be really hard to deal with.”
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Scoochie was 3 for 4 from trey-land, rest of team was 1 for 17.

Both Iowa and Monmouth shot about 50% from beyond the arc. I thought our interior defense was fairly decent both nights...maybe that's the trade-off in opponent's perimeter shooting?

Dayton also had a fair share of open looks from trey and just didn't connect...
Which is why , if Baby D isn't hitting, then Mikesell needs to look for those 3's.

He looks more concerned with moving the ball around. To be honest, i want some dagger like approach from him, as our outside game is missing (consistency).
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Which is why , if Baby D isn't hitting, then Mikesell needs to look for those 3's
Mikesell yes, Miller not so much. At least Mikesell has shown an ability to hit outside shots. Miller took too many 3's last night way too early in the shot clock. Maybe he is a deadeye shooter in practice but he isn't the guy I want to see taking that shot so early in the set.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:31 AM
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...so I just watched the ESPN highlights. The way they played it up (all Momouth and their bench), you would've thought they won. Ended the piece with "...but Dayton spoiled this party."

WTF?
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer View Post
Here is how King Rice (Monmouth's Coach) reacted to the support of Flyer Faithful at the the game. Let's keep it classy against X. I'm sure Chris Mack doesn't want to play UD on a neutral court in a small barn in front of a loud Flyer crowd! Go Flyers Be Loud!!!!!
I talked with an X assistant this past summer & he admitted that X never wants to play UD again.

I hope we pound them like a Nati Light...
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I dont think the bench knew what the score was or even saw half the game. They were more worried about their next skit than what THEIR team was doing.
Yes they did. Everything they do is choreographed. And what do the do when Robinson hits consecutive threes to get the lead to a manageable level - CPR to show they are back from the dead.

I have no issue with them. I hated the dang split screen durin live action, but not the shots going into or out of a timeout. They were fun to see.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:08 AM
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A few musings...

At first I was just astounded at what I saw with their bench, but as it progressed I thought it was hilarious. They are a very good team and that's probably what made the bench antics tolerable. If the team sucked it would get stale real quick, especially for their own following.

Their team defense in the second half run was top shelf.

Robinson was an outstanding point guard and even better shooter. Dead eye. His range was amazing and the shots were pure --- just firing through the basket.

We didn't beat them as much as we just survived them. It's easy to see why they have racked up wins on the road over top competition. This win will pay dividends throughout the season.

But in the end, we showed once again that we have closers in crunch time.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Big Steve had a terrible game.
Offensively, what we're finding out little by little is that Steve has no offensive moves at all...none. But he as great vision and passes well.

Defensively, we're seeing that teams who don't attack the basket every possession don't fear him.

He's a project.

And does he have the skinniest legs on the team? I've seen Victoria Secret runway models with thicker legs!!
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:12 AM
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We sure did miss having Pierre in this game.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:18 AM
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Steve struggles against teams with quickness that run at him. But few big men don't struggle with this. With the way the game was called yesterday, he never had a chance. He'll be fine.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Offensively, what we're finding out little by little is that Steve has no offensive moves at all...none. But he as great vision and passes well.

Defensively, we're seeing that teams who don't attack the basket every possession don't fear him.

He's a project.
I'm assuming Steve will have 1 huge game this year. Everything will just fall into place. He will get lots of offensive putbacks. He will block a few shots on the other end to start a break. And he will be jacked about it.

But, he has had a hard time grabbing the ball on a quick pass into him. We can't find a way to get him the ball down low often for some reason. And his defensive assignment pulls him away from the basket so he can't get boards.

Now, you say that teams who don't attack the basket every possession don't fear him, but can't it also be said in reverse? Teams aren't attacking the basket every possession because he's down low in the blocks and he's altering shots by his size? He's surely not in the game to stop 3 pt shooters.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Offensively, what we're finding out little by little is that Steve has no offensive moves at all...none. But he as great vision and passes well.
You should watch Steve closer. So far this year, he has been double teamed almost every time the ball has thrown into him in the post. He has the sense to look for the open man first. That is his first instinct and it is smart. Foolish for a redshirt freshman to try to score through a double team. It is better to kick it out.

On the few occasions, that he has not been double teamed, he has shown some real nice left hand and right handed moves.

Also, his teammates are having a hard time throwing the right pass when they penetrate the lane. They are throwing 90 mph fastballs from 3 feet away. Try catching that pass. Playing small ball last year, the team is not used to throwing inside roll passes. They are used to throwing the hard kick outs to the perimeter. Much different pass. The Monmouth guard was good at that last night.

Steve and teammates are having trouble with the pick and roll right now. Steve slides over, but his man is not picking up Steve's man. This will get better. There were less of these plays last night.

Steve is affecting a number of shots. I see higher arcs on shot attempts. He is getting a finger on shots that don't go in but are not called blocks.

He is still a project, but the bigger impact shows up when he is NOT in the game. Steve was out of the game during both 2nd half runs. So was Kendall.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug View Post
Yes they did. Everything they do is choreographed. And what do the do when Robinson hits consecutive threes to get the lead to a manageable level - CPR to show they are back from the dead.

I have no issue with them. I hated the dang split screen durin live action, but not the shots going into or out of a timeout. They were fun to see.
I didn't really have issues with them doing antics after a great win in the locker room...but a split screen from ESPN showing all this $hit? Come'on ESPN , you're better than that. I know AM would have never allowed it - but I wish at the end of the game when we WON, our bench would have used towels as a noose and dangled their heads with goofy faces to make a point. It was really unbelievable that their head coach allowed it. Even more so that the refs never said anything about it since in my mind it's close to taunting. One "T" would have cured all of it and I was hoping the refs would do that instead of calling phantom fouls...
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Offensively, what we're finding out little by little is that Steve has no offensive moves at all...none. But he as great vision and passes well.

Defensively, we're seeing that teams who don't attack the basket every possession don't fear him.

He's a project.

And does he have the skinniest legs on the team? I've seen Victoria Secret runway models with thicker legs!!
Part of the problem is that he is setting up about a foot or so too far from the bucket. He needs to work hard to get on that low block.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:00 PM
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Steve's problem against Monmouth is they had three big and strong post players and Steve never once established good post position. He has to get the ball deep to effective or be fronted by a smaller player. Monmouth had size and length and pushed him off the post ... hopefully a learning experience
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
Steve's problem against Monmouth is they had three big and strong post players and Steve never once established good post position. He has to get the ball deep to effective or be fronted by a smaller player. Monmouth had size and length and pushed him off the post ... hopefully a learning experience
Was there any reports about Steve's health in yesterday's game? He sure looked bad coming off the court on Thursday with what appeared to be a hip problem.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:07 PM
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There have been so many games where the other team shot layups over and over at the end of games. Steve has stopped that and he should free up some boards for pollard. He will affect games without big stats on offense. But he does have jump hooks using either hand
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:04 PM
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All of the big men had foul trouble. That's what got Monmouth back in the game. Refs made this one hard to watch. We could have just driven to the basket all night and shot free throws. Big Steve is getting an education. This will pay off in conference.

I agree that we missed Pierre. I hope he comes back.

Go Flyers! Beat those boys from Cincy!
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeymo85 View Post
i had a scoochie man crush, now it is more. what comes after man crush?
Bromance?
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Part of the problem is that he is setting up about a foot or so too far from the bucket. He needs to work hard to get on that low block.
Reminds me of the years we continually tried to get the ball low to Kurt Huelsman. IF he ever got low position, he couldn't seal off the defender. Next the pass would be telegraphed and somebody would snag it or tip it. Finally he got the ball low and traveled.

He may be a work in progress, but he still has plenty of upside being a RS Freshman. Those long arms are a difference maker on defense and rebounding.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:46 PM
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People have brought this up on the board already, but Pierre is a one man zone buster. He shoots the 3 well, and is really hard to stop in the high post. He has all of those spin moves and a deadly 8 foot shot that he can get off regularly against much larger defenders.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
...so I just watched the ESPN highlights. The way they played it up (all Momouth and their bench), you would've thought they won. Ended the piece with "...but Dayton spoiled this party."

WTF?

Everyone loves an underdog, and Monmouth was about as underdog/Cinderella as you can get in pre-season games.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:51 PM
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Pierre helped on both ends. He was a mismatch on offense and he was the best post defender and rebounder on defense. They especially miss him on the defensive end of the floor.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
Somebody should take Monmouths bench warmers behind the arena and beat the $### out of them. ESPN should be ashamed of themselves for encouraging that.
Absolutely agree! That is immature, ridiculous BS that a 10-year old would find cute. I can't believe their coach lets them do that!
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
totally disagree with the bashing of monmouth's bench. Wouldn't you want the end of bench to have that much passion (and creativity) if it was ud's bench?
absolutely not!!!!!
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:27 PM
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If that bench was with the Globetrotters we would be rolling on the floor with laughter. It's hard to understand how the head coach can deal with the distraction. When your team goes scoreless for over 6 minutes to open the second half, how in the world could he put up with their antics. If that was a losing team, their own fans would vote them off the island. As it is, I guess coach is using their impishness to keep the team loose.
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:21 AM
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I would not like for our bench to do that but I do enjoy those idiots
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:37 AM
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Get off my lawn!

Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
Somebody should take Monmouths bench warmers behind the arena and beat the $### out of them. . .
Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Couldn't agree more. What a joke to be on the team and doing all that, especially while losing. Coach needs to put them in the stands with the student section.
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Absolutely agree! That is immature, ridiculous BS that a 10-year old would find cute. I can't believe their coach lets them do that!

Jeez - some people really need to lighten up.
The Flyers won, right?

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Old 11-29-2015, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer View Post
"I’ll probably get in trouble for saying it, but that was like a home game for Dayton,” Rice said.
He's obviously never seen Dayton play a home game. That's nothing like a home game for Dayton. Maybe the teams in Monmouth's conference, but not UD.

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Offensively, what we're finding out little by little is that Steve has no offensive moves at all...none. But he as great vision and passes well.
Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Reminds me of the years we continually tried to get the ball low to Kurt Huelsman. IF he ever got low position, he couldn't seal off the defender. Next the pass would be telegraphed and somebody would snag it or tip it. Finally he got the ball low and traveled.

He may be a work in progress, but he still has plenty of upside being a RS Freshman. Those long arms are a difference maker on defense and rebounding.
Say WHAT? Steve has no moves at all -- none?? Steve has shown both left and right baby hooks. He has a bad game and now he's nothing but a project?

Wow. In the W&M game 5 of his 6 buckets were assisted. It's not like he was only scoring by getting offensive rebounds. Same for Alabama, half were from him making a move.

If Steve is a "project" at 7.4 rebounds / 6.8 points / 1.6 blocks then what the heck is XW, Miller, and Crosby? That's a totally unfair label. What's Darrell Davis? Steve has as many points, plays more minutes, and has more steals than DD!

He'll get better over the next 3+ years, but that doesn't make him a "project" right now.
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  #76  
Old 11-29-2015, 09:16 AM
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I can't believe you people defending their idiots on the bench would actually like our bench to do that. Does anybody really think Archie would allow that kind of ridiculous BS???
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  #77  
Old 11-29-2015, 10:51 AM
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Lord no, I would never want that on our bench. But the opponents can spend their scholarships any way they want. What they are doing has zero chance of catching on in the college basketball world. Can't imagine one more coach in the universe putting up with it. I do question why the refs allowed it to spill out on the floor.

All that said, after we won and we watched the replay in slo-mo, we almost split a gut laughing at the uninhibited spontaneity of it all.

It's an aberration, not a legislation.
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  #78  
Old 11-29-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post

Steve has shown both left and right baby hooks. He has a bad game and now he's nothing but a project?

He'll get better over the next 3+ years, but that doesn't make him a "project" right now.
I love Steve and everything about his presence. And I really don't know how to define a "project". But his defensive rebound and blocked shot against Monmouth in the closing minutes were key to our win. He is getting better and is a quick study. But along that learning path, we do see some negative things that remind of some previous 5's. It's not the end of the world.
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  #79  
Old 11-29-2015, 11:59 AM
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Right, because by that metric they are all projects. Steve has some work to do to become better, especially on the defensive end, but I expect more endurance issues going forward for the big guy.

Fatigue is a big factor with big men so as the season winds on I think Archie needs Sam to get his sea legs in case he needs to sub more often for Steve.

I think Sam has had a tougher row to hoe, physically, than Steve has had. Just judging by how his fouls have picked up and his shooting dropping off I think it's because of the speed/endurance issues that D1 basketball presents to freshman big men.

If, and I'm just saying, if the roster remains staus-quo then Miller will have to get tougher physically on the fly, to effectively b/u the 5 going into league play.

The beauty of Archie's teams is that they are always a work in progress. Progression is the word, because Archie keeps his players on the straight and narrow

Regression has never been in the cards. Never will imo. Onward!
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  #80  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:52 PM
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If Big Steve had offensive moves, explain how in the last 3 games he has shot 0 FTs.

Let me save you some time: It's because he has no moves. And the reason he has a (weak) L&R baby hook is because he can't back up any defender...which is a move he needs to develop.

Despite that, he's a project who just so happens to be the key to the _avier game.
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:56 PM
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Anybody that considers 8 rebounds a game a project has no understanding of court value. Is he as good as he will be, I hope not, but then I guess Scoochie was a project too.
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  #82  
Old 11-29-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dUDe View Post
Bromance?
The Ring.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
Anybody that considers 8 rebounds a game a project has no understanding of court value. Is he as good as he will be, I hope not, but then I guess Scoochie was a project too.
Can you say hyperbole?
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Despite that, he's a project who just so happens to be the key to the _avier game.
Originally Posted by John C. View Post
Anybody that considers 8 rebounds a game a project has no understanding of court value.
Since I clearly stated that Steve is the key to the _avier game, a Royal admission that he has court value, I think you owe SDF and Gazoo an apology because your comment obviously was directed at them, not me.

And since you put up no argument about his lack of offensive moves, an admission that I am Royally correct, you owe me one, too.

To avoid embarrassment, you can do it in a PM.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:32 PM
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This win against Montmouth is looking better all the time. I hope they keep rolling and stay in the RPI top 50. Their undersized PG is a baller!
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:44 PM
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Who had Monmouth for 3rd place before the tournament started?
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Since I clearly stated that Steve is the key to the _avier game, a Royal admission that he has court value, I think you owe SDF and Gazoo an apology because your comment obviously was directed at them, not me.

And since you put up no argument about his lack of offensive moves, an admission that I am Royally correct, you owe me one, too.

To avoid embarrassment, you can do it in a PM.
The more successful this team is, the more contentious this board becomes. Looking forward to total anarchy on the UDP message board as the season progresses
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  #88  
Old 11-29-2015, 02:57 PM
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Monmouth

and their coach is a class act. They were a very good basketball team and Dayton played slightly better "D" than Monmouth did. They will help UD's RPI all season long if they stay healthy. The MAAC is a good conference and Monmouth will compete to win it. UD should try to schedule them for the future.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I would not like for our bench to do that but I do enjoy those idiots
Posted via Mobile Device
I'll grant you that they were entertaining, but speaking as another Flyer fan who had to suffer through 4-26, I'd rather see our guys providing entertainment ON the court. No disrespect intended, UDEE79.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:08 PM
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Everyone had Monmouth-Alabama fighting for 7th.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If Big Steve had offensive moves, explain how in the last 3 games he has shot 0 FTs.
Because once he catches the ball, no one bothers attempting to block his shot. At that point the best defense is to hope he misses. Did you have any other questions I could help you with?

Now, is he making 3 dribbles to his off-hand and coming up from the other side of the rim for a double-pump finish off the glass? No. Neither are 90%+ of NCAA D1 men's basketball players (and 95%+ of true centers). I guess they're all "projects." So sad. Tisk tisk on their high school coaches for not developing talent.

A drop step over the left shoulder is a "move". Cooper, Cripe, Huelsman, and many more could not do it. Steve can. Is he ready to drop step and finish on the other side? No. If that's the only acceptable definition of a move then he has none, zero, nada.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:33 PM
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A 3rd grade drop-step requires 1 dribble and a 5th grade level fake-up-under requires none.

He has no moves...unless you consider an off balance 1-handed hook a 'move'.
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
A 3rd grade drop-step requires 1 dribble and a 5th grade level fake-up-under requires none.

He has no moves...unless you consider an off balance 1-handed hook a 'move'.
The all knowing smarter than every basketball coach has to denigrate and demean one player every year. This year's candidate is: Steve McElevene.

Young post players take longer to develop. Period. Every college coach in America states that. But - no allowance!

Older more experienced post players will push inexperienced players out of their best low post positions. Easier to score from 2-3 feet instead of 5-8 feet. But - No allowance!

Older players get younger post players in foul trouble. Especially with the new point of emphasis. But - now allowance!

Steve was out played this tournament but some more experienced post players and naturally he is a project, no offensive skills, no speed anything. Shaking my head.... because smh is just not enough.

Of course, let's not forget that every freshman was outplayed this tournament.

Let's see what all of them look like in March.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Who had Monmouth for 3rd place before the tournament started?
If anyone had 1 through 8 it would have been a hell of card also. Go figure.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:48 PM
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Maybe I will put my name in now. The big runs were just a precursor to the 21 point run of yesterday in the total destruction of our guys. Maybe Arch can learn a little too!!
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Old 12-01-2015, 05:10 PM
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On Monmouth's Bench

Whether you liked the bench's acting up or disliked it, the Monmouth Bench is getting a great deal of visibility and giving the school more recognition that it has had in the past. I grew up in New Jersey and never heard of this school.

This is an interesting article and the second video is from the UD game:

http://www.gq.com/story/monmouths-go...ations?ref=yfp

For me, I found it easier to take their antics when they were not playing us.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:33 PM
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Jay Bilas Tweet re the Monmouth clowns:

Source: NCAA currently discussing rewriting bench decorum rules to curtail celebrations of Monmouth bench. Remember, it's about the kids!
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
A 3rd grade drop-step requires 1 dribble and a 5th grade level fake-up-under requires none.

He has no moves...unless you consider an off balance 1-handed hook a 'move'.
I find it hard to believe that not 1 of his coaches, including an entire year spent practicing under Miller, has ever said, "Hey, I just read a magazine article about a new things called a drop step. Want to try it?"

This is not an advanced move. I could teach my 9 year old daughter in 10 minutes.

The point is this: don't try to be better than you are. I have zero doubt that he can execute a drop step or an up and under move, and does so in pickup games.

But, my bet is that the coaching staff is telling him "keep it simple, freshman. See ball, catch ball, shoot ball." I hope they have a whiffle ball bat and slap him across the wrist every time he dribbles more than once in the post during practice.

There's a difference between having the offensive moves and having the confidence in himself and from the coaching staff to use them.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Jay Bilas Tweet re the Monmouth clowns:

Source: NCAA currently discussing rewriting bench decorum rules to curtail celebrations of Monmouth bench. Remember, it's about the kids!

You and Bilas missed the followup -

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...s-celebrations
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
The point is this: don't try to be better than you are. I have zero doubt that he can execute a drop step or an up and under move, and does so in pickup games...

But, my bet is that the coaching staff is telling him "keep it simple, freshman. See ball, catch ball, shoot ball." ...
There's a difference between having the offensive moves and having the confidence in himself and from the coaching staff to use them.
I watch every move Steve makes and right now the only move he has is when he's on the right side of the hoop with his back to the basket. He can turn to the outside (his left) and kiss it off the glass with relative ease and a couple time has ducked down and leaned forward for another bank shot.

From the center or left side he's lost and typically passes the ball to the perimeter w/o even thinking about attempting a shot...which shows that he knows his strengths and weaknesses. Steve has more talent that I saw at the RecPlex and in 2 years, he'll be hard to stop. As long as he puts in the work and adds some muscle!
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