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  #601  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallage View Post
The AAC would put several marquee games on the schedule each year. Even in a down year, UConn at the arena would be a really big deal. Wichita st, UC, Memphis, Temple, SMU are all teams we'd love to play in a H/H and can't get scheduled. The AAC makes for a more fun schedule and just feels more big time to me. I'd also assume someone else from the A10 would jump too, further strengthening the AAC and weakening the A10. All good times until it falls apart, which is a fair point because it's entirely possible in the short to medium term. It's just a risk I'd be willing to explore.

The A10 isn't terrible, and there are lots of other worse places to be. Top quarter of the conference are truly peer bball schools imo. But it's got some serious dead weight pulling it down. Going to tiny, crappy gyms doesn't help anything.
It was hard to get excited about Conference games , aside from Rhode Island , VCU and 1 or 2 others. Playing Memphis, UConn, Temple and others regularly is a BIG Deal. Not sure it' s in the cards.

I wouldn't hate it - we keep holding on to the LaSalle's and Fordhams..... when they really do not belong or fit. Adnthere is little upside or potential in recruiting a Big School to the A10 , unless a UConn or another decides no mas where they are.
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  #602  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:32 PM
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No, it didnít work out ó certainly not in the short term. They won one game ó1! ó in that conference and were unceremoniously dumped after two miserable seasons. It set the program back tremendously. They were lucky to limp into the A-10 with their tail tucked between their legs. It also cost them long-term established home and homes with traditional rivals like UC, DePaul and Marquette (other than the payoff games they got for being dumped).
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  #603  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:35 PM
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UC played us after

So if we won 4 conferences game in the MCC then Marquette would wanted to play us

A marginally better record in the MCC would make no difference
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
UC played us after

So if we won 4 conferences game in the MCC then Marquette would wanted to play us

A marginally better record in the MCC would make no difference
Iím not arguing on behalf of the MCC or even against the American Conference, for that matter. Iím saying the move to the Great Midwest was a disaster no matter how you want to spin it. It did nothing to advance the program and, in fact, hurt our reputation and helped set us back ó along with OíBrien ó for years.
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  #605  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:58 PM
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The move to the Great Midwest didn't set us back. JOB set us back.
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  #606  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:52 PM
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#24 RPI gets to come to Dayton for the play in game.

Yep, tell me again how great the A-10 is and how being in the #11 conference is such a great thing for the Flyers. The obvious bias for the big boys gets worse every year.

A bit of reading for you on the quadrant system hurting the mid majors-

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...nament-chances

This is not 1998 or even 2008, times are changing. Dayton needs to do anything and everything they possibly can to align themselves with the best possible conference opportunity that exists. At this point the AAC is the next best option to the P5 and Big East.
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  #607  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:01 PM
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I don't see where the AAC is looking to expand at this point. They added Wichita St and are at 12.
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  #608  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
The move to the Great Midwest didn't set us back. JOB set us back.
If there is a purgatory for BB that was it .......

God help us everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once in my life time is one TOO many.


I stopped listening and watching as I couldn't stand to see them play that way .... if it wasn't for that first JOB season ..... he would have been a total disaster
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  #609  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:21 PM
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Let's get back to a winning record before resurrecting this thread. That seems like a high enough mountain for us after this dumpster fire of a season.

Ugh
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  #610  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
#24 RPI gets to come to Dayton for the play in game.

Yep, tell me again how great the A-10 is and how being in the #11 conference is such a great thing for the Flyers. The obvious bias for the big boys gets worse every year.

A bit of reading for you on the quadrant system hurting the mid majors-

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...nament-chances

This is not 1998 or even 2008, times are changing. Dayton needs to do anything and everything they possibly can to align themselves with the best possible conference opportunity that exists. At this point the AAC is the next best option to the P5 and Big East.
that is a very important point

How bad does this get as our exempt tourneys dry up in quality opponents as fewer P5 schools participate in these?

What happens when the SEC and PAC 12 go to 20 games in league play?
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  #611  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
that is a very important point

How bad does this get as our exempt tourneys dry up in quality opponents as fewer P5 schools participate in these?

What happens when the SEC and PAC 12 go to 20 games in league play?

I get it. And count me in the group that would like to be in the BE. But without an invitation, I just don't see the benefit of the constant hand wringing. Whether it is the BE or the AAC, we don't have much say.

I certainly don't have any inside info but i would have to believe that the powers that be understand our place and the shifting sands and are trying to position us accordingly. I really don't know what the expectation is of what we should be doing and why there is a belief that everything possible isn't already being done.
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  #612  
Old 03-12-2018, 12:58 AM
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I do not have real strong feelings regarding the A10/AAC.

First, we just finished below .500 in A10 league play.

Second, as Chris mentioned, we have only won the A10 once in 23 tries.

So, we have no room to talk about being too good for the A10.

We might want to get our own house in order before looking for another neighborhood.
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  #613  
Old 03-12-2018, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
No veto power and there's reasonable evidence to assume they would want us
Is this just speculation regarding Cincinnati having no veto power, or is there a source?

And what evidence is there that they want us? I have always heard nothing but the fact that they do not want us encroaching on their turf.

Last edited by ud2; 03-12-2018 at 01:20 AM..
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  #614  
Old 03-12-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I do not have real strong feelings regarding the A10/AAC.

First, we just finished below .500 in A10 league play.

Second, as Chris mentioned, we have only won the A10 once in 23 tries.

So, we have no room to talk about being too good for the A10.

We might want to get our own house in order before looking for another neighborhood.


In terms of fan support and facilities we're too good for the A10. In terms on court product we're not too good for the upper half.

If the entire conference cared about basketball as much as the top half it would be great, but they don't so recruits get to see the prospectus of playing half their games in high school gyms.

Better conference should equal better recruits. I bet there's a lot of recruits that love the facilities, the arena, etc... but turned us down for a middling to struggling P5 school for the conference reason.
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  #615  
Old 03-12-2018, 07:54 AM
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In my my mind the path to migration to a P5 conference or at least one materially better than the A10 starts with actually owning the A10 year in and year out - which then puts the Flyers in a new light of attractiveness OR the other way....and probably the only way for UD since it appears there is some prejudice against UD....is for the A10 collectively to outperform ooc games each year against the P5. That would elevate the A10 where now we effectively are in the P5. It all starts with ooc performance or owning th A10 so that you can graduate to the next level. For us, it hasnít happened so all the lobbying in the world to become another DePaul in th Big East is a waste of time.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
In my my mind the path to migration to a P5 conference...
Migration?! BRILLIANT! Let's just show up at the BigEast offices, move into a basement closet and claim legal residency as an undocumented BE member!

Longtimefan67, if this works you will be my new Vice-King!
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  #617  
Old 03-12-2018, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Is this just speculation regarding Cincinnati having no veto power, or is there a source?

And what evidence is there that they want us? I have always heard nothing but the fact that they do not want us encroaching on their turf.
When all this broke last year I found and I believe posted here an article that said expansion required 8-9 schools to approve expansion. I'm not seeing it now but I'll keep looking

I read an article when the news broke last year that Cronin wanted more good teams in the AAC. They want 16-2 in conference and 27-4 and got a 5 seed. SMU went 17-1 and got a 5 seed last year. There was real, demonstrated frustration from Mick and coaches in the league about the seeds they got.

I have no inside but the online info I saw online and looking at forums UC didn't indicate any resistance from them.

Enquirer is talking to him and starts out and asks him expansion. He starts out with the boilerplate "I'm trying to stay in my lane and leave that to the AD"

Then he adds

"If we would add anyone to our league that would enhance our basketball profile it would be great for league"

-Mick Cronin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MavcOwMFEzU
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  #618  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Migration?! BRILLIANT! Let's just show up at the BigEast offices, move into a basement closet and claim legal residency as an undocumented BE member!

Longtimefan67, if this works you will be my new Vice-King!
Im not sure why this thread has been around so long. Xavier got out of the A10 by proving themselves worthy of a better league. When UD GOES 15 straight years to the dance, suitors will line up like Wichita St. had last year. Itís just silly to keep wanting to be in the Big East when we donít come close to owning the A10. But if the conference as a whole starts owning the P5 preseason- it wouldnt matter since weíd regularly put 5-7 teams in based on that record- but the conference doesnít do that on a regular basis. Part of that comes down to crappy TV contracts and part of that is teams with 2,000 seat ďarenaĒ. We came close a few years ago with 5 teams in and only UD that year proved It belonged.
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  #619  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Migration?! BRILLIANT! Let's just show up at the BigEast offices, move into a basement closet and claim legal residency as an undocumented BE member!

Longtimefan67, if this works you will be my new Vice-King!
Rollo I didnít mean for it to sound like a relative taking residence in the basement but we all know that it does work occasionally:-)
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Rollo I didnít mean for it to sound like a relative taking residence in the basement but we all know that it does work occasionally:-)
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If the BigEast is a Sanctuary conference, what are we waiting for?
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If the BigEast is a Sanctuary conference, what are we waiting for?
Can these cruel, heartless Big East presidents keep out an undocumented member of the league?
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:45 AM
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Undocumented? Sanctuary?

Where is ICE (Interior Committee on Equity) when it comes to the BB arena?
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Im not sure why this thread has been around so long. Xavier got out of the A10 by proving themselves worthy of a better league. When UD GOES 15 straight years to the dance, suitors will line up like Wichita St. had last year. Itís just silly to keep wanting to be in the Big East when we donít come close to owning the A10. But if the conference as a whole starts owning the P5 preseason- it wouldnt matter since weíd regularly put 5-7 teams in based on that record- but the conference doesnít do that on a regular basis. Part of that comes down to crappy TV contracts and part of that is teams with 2,000 seat ďarenaĒ. We came close a few years ago with 5 teams in and only UD that year proved It belonged.
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Although 4 in a row was a start and a good start at that, missing as badly as we have this year (not that anyone interested in the Tourney would pay attention to what we had as a record and how badly we sometimes played) it means that a rebuild is needed not a reload.

If we miss out again next year we start to look like a flash rather than a bright beacon of BB.

You get noticed one year at a time (as in what have you done lately?) Stringing multiple years once again needs to happen.

You don't get another conference interested in an arena, in a fan base without a PROGRAM. If that were the case you could sell the arena and the First 4 Hoopla (or whatever you call it) to a conference for some money and do something else ....
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  #624  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:02 AM
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Good posts ... The TV contracts all come due after the 19/20 season. Of course Performance is very important and we have done ok in ATEN but far from dominating like Gonzaga does. Listened to great radio interview with Mark Few last nite and when asked how do you sustain, his answer was long ago we decided to become a National Brand and fly everywhere and anywhere to play Top tier teams. After a while we started winning and now everyone knows who we are including recurits. Few being there 20 years also helps keep the culture and brand moving forward in that God Forsaken impossible to get to University. The had no barriers, believed it could be done and there story in remarkable. We need t do the same at Dayton. We are better known on the court and the First Four helps. Neil and Spina doing all they can to set us up for the best landing spot in the next two years. Grant to his credit is cleaning house and looking for higher level players. We are pressing the Aten to make the conference better. But Rollo is spot on....are we aggressive enough? the tongue and cheek lets go in the basement is the right approach. We need to be aggressive , invite Big East Presidents and ADs to visit the school and be persistent until they come. Next season is very very important and that is why Grant is improving the roster. We have 5 Quad 1 games in OCC. 3 huge games in Bahamas and then Aurburn and Miss State. We have to find a way to win a few and get in the spot lite Nationally again. But the most important piece is a relentless marketing approach with Val and the Big East schools selling UD. We blew it years ago and we cant listen to those who say...cant happen... X is boxing us out.... all things change and we need to be front and center.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
When UD GOES 15 straight years to the dance, suitors will line up like Wichita St. had last year.
When did Wichita St. go 15 years in a row? Last I knew they only had 14 appearances total (15 this year).
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
When did Wichita St. go 15 years in a row? Last I knew they only had 14 appearances total (15 this year).
They must be tenured and I assume took a research sabbatical.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:03 PM
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On my scorecard a Final Four season counts as 6 years in a row.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
When did Wichita St. go 15 years in a row? Last I knew they only had 14 appearances total (15 this year).
Ok - Wichita is a stretch but they did strike while the iron was hot and did move up. Sometimes I get the feeling that where UD is right now is ďgood enoughĒ in the eyes of the UofD. They tend to be way more worried about losing the First 4 than anything else. Mark Few/Gonzaga has/had the right approach and I donít see that mindset or anything close here.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Ok - Wichita is a stretch but they did strike while the iron was hot and did move up. Sometimes I get the feeling that where UD is right now is “good enough” in the eyes of the UofD. They tend to be way more worried about losing the First 4 than anything else. Mark Few/Gonzaga has/had the right approach and I don’t see that mindset or anything close here.
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So the UD athletic director saying "I want to go to a Final Four" is the wrong mindset?

This "First Four is taking away our UD MBB energy" is baseless. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Ordering NCAA cups for the First Four had nothing to do with Darrell Davis losing the ball in the final 10 seconds at Miss. State.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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The First Four I would think would help with branding and name ID
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:44 PM
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IF Rachel Dolezal can identify as an African American and Elizabeth Warren identify as a Native American then why can't UD identify as a member of the Big East?
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Rollo I didn’t mean for it to sound like a relative taking residence in the basement but we all know that it does work occasionally:-)
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Call yourself a king long enough and the minions eventually follow. We could go independent, try to play all the BE teams each year, wait for them to forget we are not one of them, become 11th team
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
So the UD athletic director saying "I want to go to a Final Four" is the wrong mindset?

This "First Four is taking away our UD MBB energy" is baseless. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Ordering NCAA cups for the First Four had nothing to do with Darrell Davis losing the ball in the final 10 seconds at Miss. State.
Wanting to go to the final 4 and realistically coming close every year is two entirely different things. The last 35 years UD was within 1 game of making it 2 times, and beyond that not really more than 1 or 2 rounds into the tourney. That team to the south of us has put itself in a position to realistically achieve it many years since the middle 80ís - probably at least 25 appearances. Not saying that the AD doesnít want to get there but Iím not sure the focus is where it needs to be based on what the school has to offer in terms of facilities and fan base, etc...and one thing is for certain, UD loses the ďFirst 4Ē, the headline for days if not weeks would resonate with what went wrong.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Wanting to go to the final 4 and realistically coming close every year is two entirely different things. The last 35 years UD was within 1 game of making it 2 times, and beyond that not really more than 1 or 2 rounds into the tourney. That team to the south of us has put itself in a position to realistically achieve it many years since the middle 80ís - probably at least 25 appearances. Not saying that the AD doesnít want to get there but Iím not sure the focus is where it needs to be based on what the school has to offer in terms of facilities and fan base, etc...and one thing is for certain, UD loses the ďFirst 4Ē, the headline for days if not weeks would resonate with what went wrong.
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Serious question - What more should/could the AD do in the last say 10 years that would get UD closer to being in a position to get to the Final Four?
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Serious question - What more should/could the AD do in the last say 10 years that would get UD closer to being in a position to get to the Final Four?
We just need to "want it more"!!!!!! just after saying not getting there is simply "not acceptable".....

Pretty simple eh? I learned all that on this message board!
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Serious question - What more should/could the AD do in the last say 10 years that would get UD closer to being in a position to get to the Final Four?
Iím not sure itís his problem alone. I also feel like the decisions made in 70ís - 80ís have much to do with where we are today.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Wanting to go to the final 4 and realistically coming close every year is two entirely different things. The last 35 years UD was within 1 game of making it 2 times, and beyond that not really more than 1 or 2 rounds into the tourney. That team to the south of us has put itself in a position to realistically achieve it many years since the middle 80ís - probably at least 25 appearances. Not saying that the AD doesnít want to get there but Iím not sure the focus is where it needs to be based on what the school has to offer in terms of facilities and fan base, etc...and one thing is for certain, UD loses the ďFirst 4Ē, the headline for days if not weeks would resonate with what went wrong.
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I think this is what some of us look at when we are struggling as we did this year ... I always hear "UD Arena the site of more NCAA Tournament Games than anyplace else" .... the UD BB program itself? .... well we're just happy that we get in every so often .....

Nothing else is as important as that dam First Four ...

I know I know we spend money on facilities cause we have essentially a captive audience who can fork over any $ anytime we need it ...

Is there an implied trade off? Don't think so directly ....

we need to make sure we go after recruits who make a difference, we need to schedule very good games even if we have to take a beat down away from home ... look we took some beat downs from the bottom half of the A10 this year. ARE YOU KIDDIN" ME? We could of gone to Gonzaga to get that result!

If it wasn't for UD fan base traveling well ESPN would not (and let that sink in for a moment) WE would NOT get invited to all these ESPN sponsored early season tournaments every single year. (those games give some PR early for UD, but if we don't play in NCAA that PR is gone and doesn't come around until what 6 months from now.)

Does Monmouth College (the bench show guys) go every year NOPE! Why? You know the answer don't you.

Seems sometimes all the effort is from the 'fan base' hearts bleeding Red and Blue

Go Flyers Do something MEMORIAL for the FAN BASE next year!
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Iím not sure itís his problem alone. I also feel like the decisions made in 70ís - 80ís have mach to do with where we are today.
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That's what I think but without a time machine we can't change the decisions that were made that long ago. Over the last 10, even 20 years, not sure what should have been done differently. I know somebody that thinks we should have scheduled a bit differently. Maybe the plug should have been pulled on BG a year or 2 earlier? Forced AM to have a solid replacement on staff? Like whoever said it, I don't think making sure there were enough cups for the first four affected those decisions.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MavcOwMFEzU
That looked like it might have been from the original Montgomery Inn, Cronin has his weekly call-in show there.

I am apathetic about joining the AAC, but it would be nice to have a local rival.

In life, I personally do not like leaving/moving on from tasks/situations if there is unfinished business. I like to complete tasks fully. And I feel like we have a lot of unfinished business in the A10. I am not ready to leave the A10.

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Old 03-12-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That looked like it might have been from the original Montgomery Inn, Cronin has his weekly call-in show there.

I am ambivalent about joining the AAC, but it would be nice to have a local rival.

In life, I personally do not like leaving/moving on from tasks/situations if there is unfinished business. I like to complete tasks fully. And I feel like we have a lot of unfinished business in the A10. I am not ready to leave the A10.
I'm sympathetic to your argument and that of the other remainers

I fear the deterioration of the A10 and that the league could be below the cutline if/when they go to a distinction between levels of division one basketball like in football FBS/FCS (IA-IAA)
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I fear the deterioration of the A10 and that the league could be below the cutline if/when they go to a distinction between levels of division one basketball like in football FBS/FCS (IA-IAA)
The NCAA will never split as long as not-football schools are winning...therefore, we all should want teams like Gonzaga, Villanova, etc...to win March Madness. The NCAA would only split if the Big5 can demonstrate they are the best...so if they don't win, they aren't the best and have to play fair.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The NCAA will never split as long as not-football schools are winning...therefore, we all should want teams like Gonzaga, Villanova, etc...to win March Madness. The NCAA would only split if the Big5 can demonstrate they are the best...so if they don't win, they aren't the best and have to play fair.
I'm not thinking a split more like a distinction between schools in Division 1 like basketball. Something along the lines of the P5, Big East, AAC, Mountain West are division 1 and everyone else becomes 1-AA in basketball. Like the classifications in football
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post

In life, I personally do not like leaving/moving on from tasks/situations if there is unfinished business. I like to complete tasks fully. And I feel like we have a lot of unfinished business in the A10. I am not ready to leave the A10.
I wonder if Butler feels like they have unfinished business in the A10?
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Ok - Wichita is a stretch but they did strike while the iron was hot and did move up.
But even Wichita went to the NCAAT 7x in a row, including a Final 4, and that run was preceded by a NIT championship and a 1st round NIT finish. NCAAT or NIT 9 years in a row.

We have never come close to that sort of a run.

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Old 03-12-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
But even Wichita went to the NCAAT 7x in a row, including a Final 4, and that run was preceded by a NIT championship and a 1st round NIT finish. NCAAT or NIT 9 years in a row.

We have never come close to that sort of a run.
I agree we haven't been as good as that but sometimes we act like we have been terrible lately. We have been to the NCAA or NIT 15 of the last 21 years. Now of course I always want more NCAA's but there are a lot worse programs around than us. I would say in the big picture we have been a very successful program over the last 20 years.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:54 PM
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I think we all agree on one thing. We half to get back into the dance. That begins next November in the Bahamas. From another thread, we have five quadrant one win opportunities next year, 3 down there, and a couple elsewhere. Talk to me after Thanksgiving next year, and then I will evaluate where we should and should not go. The committee chair made no bones about it last night. Quadrant one wins are king. Whether or not we are in the Atlantic 10, big east, American, urban league, whatever, our athletic director and coach need to figure out a way to provide as many quadrant one opportunities as possible. Unfortunately, that means we will be making some not so fun road trips in the near future.
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
I think we all agree on one thing. We half to get back into the dance. That begins next November in the Bahamas. From another thread, we have five quadrant one win opportunities next year, 3 down there, and a couple elsewhere. Talk to me after Thanksgiving next year, and then I will evaluate where we should and should not go. The committee chair made no bones about it last night. Quadrant one wins are king. Whether or not we are in the Atlantic 10, big east, American, urban league, whatever, our athletic director and coach need to figure out a way to provide as many quadrant one opportunities as possible. Unfortunately, that means we will be making some not so fun road trips in the near future.
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Road wins at New Mexico State, South Dakota State, Western Kentucky, Northeastern and Loyola Chicago would have been Quad 1 wins
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Road wins at New Mexico State, South Dakota State, Western Kentucky, Northeastern and Loyola Chicago would have been Quad 1 wins
Neil has always been very good at playing the numbers game. He'll figure out where the Quad 1 opportunities are and get us an ample opportunity at them.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Neil has always been very good at playing the numbers game. He'll figure out where the Quad 1 opportunities are and get us an ample opportunity at them.
Agree, he has done a good job of scheduling the OOC to maximize the chances to Dance. Ort OOC performance has been solid(less this year). As the requirements change(Quad wins) he will put us in position to br successful. He did that this year with a top 10 SOS in the OOC. We just didn't win enough. He knows the game being played and the difficulties involved is scheduling.

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Old 03-12-2018, 06:34 PM
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If there was a bad time to talk about moving to another conference ... this is probably it.

It is very hard to not focus on the path of creating a winning team and winning approach by AG et al.

For me, the thought of going to the NBE and losing every conference game is not a pleasant thought. Talk to Rutgers fans...be careful what you wish for (at least for today)

Go Flyers ! Time to rebuild and continue the winning tradition !
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Road wins at New Mexico State, South Dakota State, Western Kentucky, Northeastern and Loyola Chicago would have been Quad 1 wins
You keep listing these teams so why don't you tell Neil who they will be for the next couple of years and maybe he'll try to schedule some of them. I guess that wouldn't be so easy to predict.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
You keep listing these teams so why don't you tell Neil who they will be for the next couple of years and maybe he'll try to schedule some of them. I guess that wouldn't be so easy to predict.
It's actually not as hard as you think.

Vermont is quad 1 win this year. They went to the tourney last year and brought back their 4 best starters including the conference player of the year, a freshman who was 2nd team all conference & a 3rd teamer.

They went 16-0 in conference last year and ran through their league.

If you bring back a lot of starters and you did well, reasonable chance success can be replicated. Scoochie, Cooke, Pollard and Davis came back after their junior season. Reasonable to assume they'll do it again

Kentucky shelled out one of the biggest guarantees in the country this year to get them. Marquette payed big money to buy them too

Neil isn't the only AD in America who knows how to schedule

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Old 03-12-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
It's actually not as hard as you think.

Vermont is quad 1 win this year. They went to the tourney last year and brought back their 4 best starters including the conference player of the year, a freshman who was 2nd team all conference & a 3rd teamer.

They went 16-0 in conference last year and ran through their league.

If you bring back a lot of starters and you did well, reasonable chance success can be replicated. Scoochie, Cooke, Pollard and Davis came back after their junior season. Reasonable to assume they'll do it again

Kentucky shelled out one of the biggest guarantees in the country this year to get them. Marquette payed big money to buy them too

Neil isn't the only AD in America who knows how to schedule
Vermont was ended up with an RPI of 60 so they paid big bucks for a quad 2 win. When was the quadrant system introduced? Did Kentucky and Marquette know about it when they scheduled Vermont? The scheduling of Vermont may have been more about RPI.

The reality is that the likes of Vermont is who we may have to start doing H/H series with in OOC. The problem is the number of this "locks" are limited and many schools will be trying to get them.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Vermont was ended up with an RPI of 60 so they paid big bucks for a quad 2 win. When was the quadrant system introduced? Did Kentucky and Marquette know about it when they scheduled Vermont? The scheduling of Vermont may have been more about RPI.

The reality is that the likes of Vermont is who we may have to start doing H/H series with in OOC. The problem is the number of this "locks" are limited and many schools will be trying to get them.
I meant to clarify that it would be a quad 1 win as a road game for us. A quad 1 win from a buy game is virtually impossible. My mistake

I'm not sure if UK knew about Quads but they generally will spring for some high quality buy games. Some people knew

@GaryParrishCBS
We just talked to @EricPMusselman on @CBSSportsNet. He said when he realized the quadrant system would be so important he scheduled URI, Texas Tech, Davidson and TCU. And for those of you saying schedules are ďmade years in advance,Ē he scheduled some of those as late as August.

So I don't think the competition to play say Vermont H/H would be that great. No P5/Big East school would play them. UC, Wichita St or Gonzaga wouldn't play them either. Filter those teams out and I'm sure we'd stand a great chance. I bet we could get a 2 for 1 out of them.

Getting a quad 1 win on the road and quad 2 win on the home slate is probably the best we can hope for. Maybe if you know it's a rebuilding/reloading year you shoot for the quad 1 win on the road and don't worry about the quality of the home game, See us last year vs this

A quad 1 win at home off a series is gonna be really hard. It's gonna take a luck to get a top 30 RPI team at home
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I meant to clarify that it would be a quad 1 win as a road game for us. A quad 1 win from a buy game is virtually impossible. My mistake

I'm not sure if UK knew about Quads but they generally will spring for some high quality buy games. Some people knew

@GaryParrishCBS
We just talked to @EricPMusselman on @CBSSportsNet. He said when he realized the quadrant system would be so important he scheduled URI, Texas Tech, Davidson and TCU. And for those of you saying schedules are ďmade years in advance,Ē he scheduled some of those as late as August.

So I don't think the competition to play say Vermont H/H would be that great. No P5/Big East school would play them. UC, Wichita St or Gonzaga wouldn't play them either. Filter those teams out and I'm sure we'd stand a great chance. I bet we could get a 2 for 1 out of them.

Getting a quad 1 win on the road and quad 2 win on the home slate is probably the best we can hope for. Maybe if you know it's a rebuilding/reloading year you shoot for the quad 1 win on the road and don't worry about the quality of the home game, See us last year vs this

A quad 1 win at home off a series is gonna be really hard. It's gonna take a luck to get a top 30 RPI team at home
Excuse my ignorance; I need to read up on the quadrant system. Do teams float between quadrants year to year? The reason I ask is H/H vs. Vermont suggested above sounds good but are they likely to transition over the course of the series (which I realize is only 2 years)? Outside of the P5, is scheduling H/H series actually potentially more risky? I only used Vermont because it was previously mentioned; the question is general.

I just want to understand it better.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@GaryParrishCBS
We just talked to @EricPMusselman on @CBSSportsNet. He said when he realized the quadrant system would be so important he scheduled URI, Texas Tech, Davidson and TCU. And for those of you saying schedules are “made years in advance,” he scheduled some of those as late as August.
Nevada played 15 home and 16 away/neutral. But, they had some not-so-good a/n games in there: at Hawaii, at Santa Clara, at Pacific, at UC Irvine, #100 Southern Illinois neutral(not too bad), and San Francisco neutral.

The TTU game may not be a h/h, the game was at TTU. The TCU game was neutral. But, they did get #47 Davidson, #19 URI, and #85 Illinois State at Nevada.



http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Nevada.html


And Nevada has been hit and miss, mostly miss after hc Fox left several years ago. But, they are obviously trending up now, 2 straight trips to the NCAAT.

And who knows how long Musselman stays there? He will likely start to attract some p5/high major suitors soon, if not already.



Nevada Wolf Pack RPI History
Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank
2017-2018 rpi #17
2016-2017 rpi #29
2015-2016 17-13 0.5291 118 0.5080 140
2014-2015 7-22 0.4221 306 0.4901 177
2013-2014 15-17 0.5123 137 0.5285 103
2012-2013 11-19 0.4980 173 0.5572 51
2011-2012 24-6 0.5701 67 0.4973 162
2010-2011 12-19 0.4850 193 0.5232 111
2009-2010 19-12 0.5618 73 0.5425 75
2008-2009 20-12 0.5486 83 0.5349 86
2007-2008 20-11 0.5535 73 0.5090 132
2006-2007 27-4 0.6036 23 0.5128 119
2005-2006 26-5 0.6064 19 0.5256 98
2004-2005 23-6 0.5851 32 0.5239 104
2003-2004 22-8 0.6013 29 0.5574 44
2002-2003 17-13 0.5328 98 0.5215 98
2001-2002 16-13 0.5243 107 0.5152 120
2000-2001 9-18 0.4693 204 0.5146 114
1999-2000 8-20 0.4475 235 0.5014 151
1998-1999 7-18 0.4179 266 0.4639 221
1997-1998 15-12 0.5124 131 0.4980 143
1996-1997 19-9 0.5500 76 0.5071 119
1995-1996 16-13 0.4994 143 0.4819 178
1994-1995 18-11 0.5468 85 0.5222 102
1993-1994 10-17 0.4564 209 0.4850 171

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Old 03-13-2018, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Nevada played 15 home and 16 away/neutral. But, they had some not-so-good a/n games in there: at Hawaii, at Santa Clara, at Pacific, at UC Irvine, #100 Southern Illinois neutral(not too bad), and San Francisco neutral.

The TTU game may not be a h/h, the game was at TTU. The TCU game was neutral. But, they did get #47 Davidson, #19 URI, and #85 Illinois State at Nevada.



http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Nevada.html


And Nevada has been hit and miss, mostly miss after hc Fox left several years ago. But, they are obviously trending up now, 2 straight trips to the NCAAT.

And who knows how long Musselman stays there? He will likely start to attract some p5/high major suitors soon, if not already.



Nevada Wolf Pack RPI History
Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank
2017-2018 rpi #17
2016-2017 rpi #29
2015-2016 17-13 0.5291 118 0.5080 140
2014-2015 7-22 0.4221 306 0.4901 177
2013-2014 15-17 0.5123 137 0.5285 103
2012-2013 11-19 0.4980 173 0.5572 51
2011-2012 24-6 0.5701 67 0.4973 162
2010-2011 12-19 0.4850 193 0.5232 111
2009-2010 19-12 0.5618 73 0.5425 75
2008-2009 20-12 0.5486 83 0.5349 86
2007-2008 20-11 0.5535 73 0.5090 132
2006-2007 27-4 0.6036 23 0.5128 119
2005-2006 26-5 0.6064 19 0.5256 98
2004-2005 23-6 0.5851 32 0.5239 104
2003-2004 22-8 0.6013 29 0.5574 44
2002-2003 17-13 0.5328 98 0.5215 98
2001-2002 16-13 0.5243 107 0.5152 120
2000-2001 9-18 0.4693 204 0.5146 114
1999-2000 8-20 0.4475 235 0.5014 151
1998-1999 7-18 0.4179 266 0.4639 221
1997-1998 15-12 0.5124 131 0.4980 143
1996-1997 19-9 0.5500 76 0.5071 119
1995-1996 16-13 0.4994 143 0.4819 178
1994-1995 18-11 0.5468 85 0.5222 102
1993-1994 10-17 0.4564 209 0.4850 171
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
Excuse my ignorance; I need to read up on the quadrant system. Do teams float between quadrants year to year? The reason I ask is H/H vs. Vermont suggested above sounds good but are they likely to transition over the course of the series (which I realize is only 2 years)? Outside of the P5, is scheduling H/H series actually potentially more risky? I only used Vermont because it was previously mentioned; the question is general.

I just want to understand it better.
Quadrant 1: Home 1-30; neutral 1-50; away 1-75
Quadrant 2: Home 31-75; neutral 51-100; away 76-135
Quadrant 3: Home 76-160; neutral 101-200; away 136-240
Quadrant 4: Home 161-plus; neutral 201-plus; away 241-plus

Yeah, it's risky but then again any series has more risks on the second game because a lot can happen between when a series is scheduled and when the 2nd game is played. See when St. Mary's scheduled their game with us. Dayton was a Quad 1 win for them the first year and we slid down this year to a Quad 3 for them at home.

The first year is easier to predict because you know what a team has coming back. The second year you hope the team has when you schedule it has productive sophomores because those will be juniors and seniors when the games take place, an impressive freshman or a some quality sit out transfers A lot can change between the first game and second game (See us) but you have to the best you can with the information you have.

So Vermont bring back Anthony Lamb who's a sophomore this year. Pretty highly regarded mid major player who should be their conference player of the year. The bring back a starting guarding who was second team all conference and on the all defense team along with a member of the all freshman team.

So two proven all conference starters are back, a sixth man and an all rookie team member. Their coach turned down Duquesne and some other schools last year. He's an older guy so maybe he's not on the fast track out of town.

Hope for a Quad 2 but could a Quad 3 team or rails fall off Quad 3

There's risk if you play anyone in a series. If you started a H/H with Arizona this year thinking it's a great game year two. Now with the FBI stuff Sean Miller could be gone, his recruiting class left and they no one signed/committed now. To top it off their 3 best players will leave for the NBA leaving a roster in tatters
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:45 AM
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OSU Flyer - I don't disagree with you that UD needs to go after quad 1 and 2 games and victories. I am not sure it is that much different than what they have been doing except they have been looking at RPI rather than the quad. With the P5 conferences playing 20 game schedule it is going to be very difficult to get those H/Hs and as you pointed out, some may start backing away from the early season tourneys that was always something we could count on for a quality game.

I still think there is a big P5 advantage because they have more chances. Even if Wisc is down, someone like a Penn St steps up a little higher. With the games we need to schedule - like a Vermont, it is more of a crap shoot, especially the second year.

There is not a good example of a non-P5 school that got snubbed but had a schedule to point out that they did what they could. St. Marys lost games to low level P5 schools. Mid Tenn St. has a better argument. They scheduled the P5 games they probably could get like Vandy and Ole Miss and won but they lost to the better P5 teams they played - Auburn, USC and Miami. Had they won at least one of those games against the better P5 teams, they would have a better argument. But even if the not P5 get in, I think they still take a hit on seed because of the lack of quad 1 wins. Hopefully a couple of wins by seed underdogs this year will make the committee rethink some of that.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
I wonder if Butler feels like they have unfinished business in the A10?
They had 11 NCAAT appearances in a 17 year period in the HL/A10, that was what got them in.

If we keep producing NCAAT appearances at a good rate, we will eventually get invited to a better conference.

It seems that some of these conferences do not want to leave any stone unturned in terms of adding teams that earn NCAAT appearances and make money and that will help a conference's bottom line.

It seems that both the AAC and BE are interested in us if we keep winning. But, we have to keep winning. A drop off is going to hurt our profile.

Gonzaga has run off 20 straight NCAAT appearances, and 21 appearances in 24 years, but they are still stuck in the WCC, where each conference member gets an equal slice of the pie. Just imagine how p*ssed off Gonzaga is. At least the A10 lets a team keep 75% of the team's own earnings.

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Yes, it will try not to pollute this thread any further with 15/15 talk. I just could not resist!

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Old 03-13-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
In terms of fan support and facilities we're too good for the A10. In terms on court product we're not too good for the upper half.

If the entire conference cared about basketball as much as the top half it would be great, but they don't so recruits get to see the prospectus of playing half their games in high school gyms.

Better conference should equal better recruits. I bet there's a lot of recruits that love the facilities, the arena, etc... but turned us down for a middling to struggling P5 school for the conference reason.
100%. I'ts who you associate yourself with. WE have fan support and facilities. WE have (mostly) a quality history.

Partnering and entering American makes more and more sense to me. As the Bonnies, LaSalle and Fordham will hardly if ever improve their facilities.

Talk to me about Memphis, UConn, Temple and the rest ALL Day~
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
OSU Flyer - I don't disagree with you that UD needs to go after quad 1 and 2 games and victories. I am not sure it is that much different than what they have been doing except they have been looking at RPI rather than the quad. With the P5 conferences playing 20 game schedule it is going to be very difficult to get those H/Hs and as you pointed out, some may start backing away from the early season tourneys that was always something we could count on for a quality game.

I still think there is a big P5 advantage because they have more chances. Even if Wisc is down, someone like a Penn St steps up a little higher. With the games we need to schedule - like a Vermont, it is more of a crap shoot, especially the second year.

There is not a good example of a non-P5 school that got snubbed but had a schedule to point out that they did what they could. St. Marys lost games to low level P5 schools. Mid Tenn St. has a better argument. They scheduled the P5 games they probably could get like Vandy and Ole Miss and won but they lost to the better P5 teams they played - Auburn, USC and Miami. Had they won at least one of those games against the better P5 teams, they would have a better argument. But even if the not P5 get in, I think they still take a hit on seed because of the lack of quad 1 wins. Hopefully a couple of wins by seed underdogs this year will make the committee rethink some of that.
I just threw Vermont out as an example. I just wanted to point out we can get Quad 1 road wins
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I just threw Vermont out as an example. I just wanted to point out we can get Quad 1 road wins
I understand Vermont was only one example by you. it was a good one. As you pointed out, it should have been anticipated that they would be good.

I have no idea if this guy is any good or not but I searched for the preseason RPI rankings and found it.

https://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nc...nkings-ratings

Note - Vermont was projected to be an 80 which would not have yield a quad 1 opportunity on the road.

There were only 14 non P5/BE teams in the preseason top 75 and only 10 ended up in the top 75. They were Wich St, Cincy, St Marys, Gonzaga, URI, SDSU, BYU, Boise St , St Bonaventure and C of C. So 8 teams not counting the A10 teams. My point is that you have to be smart and lucky to get the right games. But as I pointed out before, in the B10, Wisc was preseason 31 and ended up 112. However Nebraska was 102 preseason and ended up 56.

Add in the challenge of finding the right matching dates and avoiding pre-conference tourney match-ups, it is a very difficult task for the non P5/BE teams to create those quad 1 opportunities.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I just threw Vermont out as an example. I just wanted to point out we can get Quad 1 road wins
Just remember that Vermont is in New England so be careful what you wish for. Last year Figgie did some research and since 2000 UD is 9-15 (including the two losses this year) when playing in New England and unfortunately I have been at every one of them and would most likely be at a game in Vermont.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I understand Vermont was only one example by you. it was a good one. As you pointed out, it should have been anticipated that they would be good.

I have no idea if this guy is any good or not but I searched for the preseason RPI rankings and found it.

https://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nc...nkings-ratings

Note - Vermont was projected to be an 80 which would not have yield a quad 1 opportunity on the road.

There were only 14 non P5/BE teams in the preseason top 75 and only 10 ended up in the top 75. They were Wich St, Cincy, St Marys, Gonzaga, URI, SDSU, BYU, Boise St , St Bonaventure and C of C. So 8 teams not counting the A10 teams. My point is that you have to be smart and lucky to get the right games. But as I pointed out before, in the B10, Wisc was preseason 31 and ended up 112. However Nebraska was 102 preseason and ended up 56.

Add in the challenge of finding the right matching dates and avoiding pre-conference tourney match-ups, it is a very difficult task for the non P5/BE teams to create those quad 1 opportunities.
This site had Vermont at #64, not sure about the site's accuracy...that would qualify as a q1 road win.


http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/15090
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:20 PM
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Vermont #69 below...that would also be a q1 road win.

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...jections-seeds
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Vermont #69 below...that would also be a q1 road win.

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...jections-seeds
I think he's saying the site he looked at had their preseason RPI as that
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think he's saying the site he looked at had their preseason RPI as that
Yeah, the #64 and #69 links I posted were preseason rankings for Vermont for this year.

Rpiforecast has Vermont at #60 right now.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/index2.html

Vermont made the NIT this year as a 6 seed...they lost in the America East conference tourney final on a last second shot by Maryland Baltimore County.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018...nament#Bracket

Vermont won the AE regular season league title this year.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018...all_Tournament

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Old 03-13-2018, 08:55 PM
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My point still is - it's a cr@p shoot.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
My point still is - it's a cr@p shoot.
Yes, to a degree, it is all a crap shoot unless you are playing somebody like Kentucky or Duke, where you have a very good idea of what you will get.

The best you can do is make an educated guess. But, I think you can reduce your risk significantly with some research used to make an educated guess.

Generally speaking, the p5 schools are better, but even there you are only guessing.

Examples of recent UD p5 games, where the p5 school underperformed:

#182 Wake Forest, neutral

#113 Boston College neutral

#166 BC neutral

At #119 USC

#181 USC at UD

At #157 GT

#154 GT at UD

#133 Arkansas at UD

#108 Nebraska neutral

Last edited by ud2; 03-14-2018 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:34 AM
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for ud2

How Nevada's non-conference schedule put it in the NCAA Tournament

During the NCAA selection committee’s hours-long discussions of at-large teams for this year’s NCAA Tournament, two schedules were discussed as much as any others.

One was Saint Mary’s, whose schedule was held up as an example of what mid-majors should avoid doing.

And the other was Nevada’s, whose schedule was pointed to as the model for mid-majors to follow.

So, while Saint Mary’s and Nevada had similar win totals – 28 for the Gaels; 27 for Nevada – and recorded similar league records – 16-2 for Saint Mary’s; 15-3 for Nevada – in similar conferences, the Wolf Pack earned a No. 7 seed as an NCAA Tournament at-large team while Saint Mary’s didn’t make the field at all.

The difference? Nevada challenged itself in the non-conference and Saint Mary’s didn’t, per the committee.

“We scheduled road games,” Wolf Pack coach Eric Musselman said of his team’s non-conference philosophy.

http://www.rgj.com/story/sports/coll...ent/421587002/
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:47 AM
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Here is an interesting quote from the article, the NCAA selection committee likes teams that are willing to play non-conference road games.


“We scheduled road games,” Wolf Pack coach Eric Musselman said of his team’s non-conference philosophy. “I’m so happy the committee talked about road games and talked about scheduling up and talked about playing really good teams like TCU and Texas Tech and we played six teams in the field.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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As we had a top 5 or so difficult schedule, all we had to do was win. that proved to be difficult this year, but most years our OOC is a strength. Going to the Quad system may require some modification in scheduling but the program will be up to the task.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Here is an interesting quote from the article, the NCAA selection committee likes teams that are willing to play non-conference road games.
The article should have said the committee likes non-P5/BE teams that are willing to play non-conference road games. It doesn't matter what the P5/BE teams do because in the committee's eyes they have enough road games within their conference. Some P5/BE schools play one true non-conference road game and it doesn't hurt them.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:21 AM
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True, if they truly valued OOC road games Syracuse would never get in.
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yes, to a degree, it is all a crap shoot unless you are playing somebody like Kentucky or Duke, where you have a very good idea of what you will get.

The best you can do is make an educated guess. But, I think you can reduce your risk significantly with some research used to make an educated guess.

Generally speaking, the p5 schools are better, but even there you are only guessing.

Examples of recent UD p5 games, where the p5 school underperformed:

#182 Wake Forest, neutral

#113 Boston College neutral

#166 BC neutral

At #119 USC

#181 USC at UD

At #157 GT

#154 GT at UD

#133 Arkansas at UD

#108 Nebraska neutral
It doesn't matter if the P5 schools are absolute garbage. The main thing, aside from getting them to actually AGREE to play you, is all that residual RPI runoff you get from those crappy P5 schools playing really really good teams all season long. Sure, you hope they are not a disaster, and USC loss nearly torpedoed our NCAA berth that season, but overall it's a huge win for us in several respects to play P5 teams.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:11 PM
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Nevada played a great non-conference schedule. Also, the MW was a good conference and they tore it up. Iím mobile so itís hard for me to look up but how many quad 1 wins did Nevada get OOC? They did not get in because they lost to TT and TCU on the road. They got in because they beat URI and Davidson at home. St Maryís did not get in because they lost their non-home games and their home wins were nowhere near the quality of Nevadaís home wins and the WAC is not as good as the MW. Would St Maryís have gotten if they had beat UGA and WSU even though those teams are not as good as TT and TCU? How much credit do you get for playing on the road and losing?

You have to win quad 1 games. Not just schedule them.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:30 PM
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Why can't the NCAA mandate that all schools must play a minimum "x" number of TRUE road games in order to be considered for the NCAA tournament?
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
Why can't the NCAA mandate that all schools must play a minimum "x" number of TRUE road games in order to be considered for the NCAA tournament?
Perfect.......Syracuse would NEVER get in.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Nevada played a great non-conference schedule. Also, the MW was a good conference and they tore it up. Iím mobile so itís hard for me to look up but how many quad 1 wins did Nevada get OOC? They did not get in because they lost to TT and TCU on the road. They got in because they beat URI and Davidson at home. St Maryís did not get in because they lost their non-home games and their home wins were nowhere near the quality of Nevadaís home wins and the WAC is not as good as the MW. Would St Maryís have gotten if they had beat UGA and WSU even though those teams are not as good as TT and TCU? How much credit do you get for playing on the road and losing?

You have to win quad 1 games. Not just schedule them.
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if you go to

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2018/rpi-live

and click on a team, then team sheet, you can see the victories by Quadrant

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/20...et?team=Nevada

So they were 2-3 against Quad 1, 8-2 vs Quad 2. 15 Quad 1/2 games

So Dayton only had 9 Quad 1/2 games all year
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
True, if they truly valued OOC road games Syracuse would never get in.
That's not exactly true. With the 20 game schedule coming for the ACC, Syracuse is going to be playing as many road games Dayton most years
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:34 PM
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We had twice as many TRUE road games than Syracuse. They had 1 and we had 2.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
if you go to

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2018/rpi-live

and click on a team, then team sheet, you can see the victories by Quadrant

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/20...et?team=Nevada

So they were 2-3 against Quad 1, 8-2 vs Quad 2. 15 Quad 1/2 games

So Dayton only had 9 Quad 1/2 games all year
Thanks this good stuff. But what it really pointed out is our issue is with the conference.

We actually had more quad 1 opportunities than Nevada. UD 6 and Nevada 5. Same OOC 5 with UD going 0-3 and Nevada going 1-2. We had 3 in conf going 1-2 and Nevada went 1-2. So our quad 1 scheduling was not really different than Nevada. We just didnít win any OOC.

The bigger difference was quad 2. We only had 3 opportunities going 0-1 OOC and 1-1 in conference. Nevada has 10 going 3-0 OOC but 5-2 in conference. Thatís 7 quad 1 opportunities to our 2. That is the big difference. What this tells me more is that we need to be in another conference. We should start a thread about being in another conference. Seriously I wonder how much this year was an anomaly or wasnít it?
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:27 PM
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Part of the problem with the A10 is the league doesn't Dayton,its membership or the league itself any favors with these mirror games (teams we play H/H) .

15-16, Scooch, etc junior year instead of playing VCU twice we played Fordham H/H. That denies us a high quality game and it's one less attractive match up for TV. We played La Salle H/H that season as well. We're permanently tethered from what I can tell to one of the consistently worst programs in the conference Duquesne for H/H.

I get "rivalries" or geography but there's no reason Dayton should ever play Fordham H/H. One in St. Louis is fine.

Our margin of error isn't great enough. That game with Fordham vs. beating VCU at their place could have been the difference between a 7th seed and 6th seed. In the future that could be the NCAA or the NIT
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Part of the problem with the A10 is the league doesn't Dayton,its membership or the league itself any favors with these mirror games (teams we play H/H) .

15-16, Scooch, etc junior year instead of playing VCU twice we played Fordham H/H. That denies us a high quality game and it's one less attractive match up for TV. We played La Salle H/H that season as well. We're permanently tethered from what I can tell to one of the consistently worst programs in the conference Duquesne for H/H.

I get "rivalries" or geography but there's no reason Dayton should ever play Fordham H/H. One in St. Louis is fine.

Our margin of error isn't great enough. That game with Fordham vs. beating VCU at their place could have been the difference between a 7th seed and 6th seed. In the future that could be the NCAA or the NIT
To some degree I think we get the better in conference H/Hs. This year we did have URI and VCU plus Duquesne and SLU. SLU would have been better but all the offcourt stuff hurt them. It was good we got out of the 2 games with Fordham and Lasalle. Unlike the P5 where if one team has a bad year another steps up, the A10 seems to have the perennial cellar dwellers and then a couple of teams like us and VCU that catch a bad year. Few surprises on the upside. Maybe Davidson this year.
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:47 PM
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This year it's fine

But in a year where Dayton was likely NCAA tourney caliber team. Someone in the A10 thought it was a good idea for Dayton to play H/H with LaSalle, Fordham and Duquesne.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
We actually had more quad 1 opportunities than Nevada. UD 6 and Nevada 5. Same OOC 5 with UD going 0-3 and Nevada going 1-2. We had 3 in conf going 1-2 and Nevada went 1-2. So our quad 1 scheduling was not really different than Nevada. We just didn’t win any OOC.

The bigger difference was quad 2. We only had 3 opportunities going 0-1 OOC and 1-1 in conference. Nevada has 10 going 3-0 OOC but 5-2 in conference. That’s 7 quad 1 opportunities to our 2. That is the big difference. What this tells me more is that we need to be in another conference. We should start a thread about being in another conference. Seriously I wonder how much this year was an anomaly or wasn’t it?
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I think Nevada will be playing at URI, at Davidson, and at ISU next year, I am guessing that all 3 of those games this year were the start of home and homes. They got 1 q1 opportunity and 2 q2 opportunities there. If they play the standard 16/14, they likely only have 12 q1 and q2 opps, losing all 3 of those opps.

If we go to 15/15 and get 1 more q1 road opp and 1 more q2 home opportunity, we get 11 q1 and q2 opps vs. 15 for Nevada. Whereas it is 9 vs. 15 now.

And FWIW, this year was the 5th toughest schedule we have played in the last 25 years, our sos is normally not this good.
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  #688  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I think Nevada will be playing at URI, at Davidson, and at ISU next year, I am guessing that all 3 of those games were the start of home and homes. They got 1 q1 opportunity and 2 q2 opportunities there. If they play the standard 16/14, they likely only have 12 q1 and q2 opps, losing all 3 of those opps.

If we go to 15/15 and get 1 more q1 road opp and 1 more q2 home opportunity, we get 11 q1 and q2 opps vs. 15 for Nevada. Whereas it is 9 vs. 15 now.

And FWIW, this year was the 5th toughest schedule we have played in the last 25 years, our sos is normally not this good.
The SOS doesn't matter. The committee chair said that. Gaming the RPI doesn't work. RPI did nothing for A10 teams seed wise this year

Quality wins and quadrant wins are the name of the game now
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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Article on the decline in at large bids from out side the power conferences

“There’s clearly been a shift of some kind,” said Patrick Stevens, a contributor to the Washington Post who has meticulously tracked bracket metrics closely for well over a decade. “It’s partially a consolidation of leagues, but partially the committee’s evaluation process has changed to some extent. Not to oversimply things, but it’s come down to quantity of high-end victories.”

Scheduling for mid-majors will only become more difficult, as the Big Ten (next year) and ACC (2019) have expanded 20-game conference schedules set. (The Pac-12 and SEC are considering it.) That would mean even less opportunity to hoard so-called Quadrant 1 wins. “It doesn’t seem to matter if you get those five high-end victories in six tries or 16 tries,” Stevens said. “If the priorities are going to be quantity of high-end victories, then the deck is stacked at that point.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/march-sadne...041832135.html
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
AďIt doesnít seem to matter if you get those five high-end victories in six tries or 16 tries,Ē Stevens said. ďIf the priorities are going to be quantity of high-end victories, then the deck is stacked at that point.Ē

https://sports.yahoo.com/march-sadne...041832135.html
I'm eagerly awaiting the first sub-.500 at-large bid. 14-16 but six Q1 wins and eight Q2 wins.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:04 PM
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Bruce Rasmussen, selection committee chairman and Creighton athletic director

Dirk is correct in stating that the non-conference SOS has its flaws. It only takes into account the won-lost records of who you played, not where you played the game, not the outcome of the game, and most importantly, not the strength of the team you played. For instance, for non-conference SOS purposes, a game at home against 9-6 Penn has a more positive impact on non-conference SOS than a game on the road against 7-5 Indiana because winning 9/15 games is a better decimal than winning 7/12.

Non-conference SOS is not a predominant tool in selections.

Again, while non-conference SOS is a number referred to by the committee and the public, it is not the non-conference SOS that the committee looks at but the non-conference games with specifics that the committee looks at. Did you give the committee a picture of whether or not you should be in consideration for an at-large spot or a high seed in the tournament if you did not win your conference tournament?
http://www.omaha.com/sports/blogs/ma...1d32c13f9.html

Please don't cite the Non Con SOS as proof of anything
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:44 PM
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In today's day and age with all the metrics out there can't they actually come up with a strength of schedule that takes into account all of the applicable variables?
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:41 PM
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Loyola moved up a conferences despite being a bottom tier Horizon League team, worked out for them
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:10 AM
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We need to be in the Missouri Valley

Just kidding. Go Ramblers!!
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:18 AM
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Revenge for Wes Coffee against Evansville
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:13 PM
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Great midwest

We need to restart the Great Midwest....get Loyola, St. Louis, Detroit, Drake , others .....
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:18 PM
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do we still enzo threads?
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:51 PM
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Enzo - talk about a buzz-killer. Let's eliminate this term from the UD dictionary.

Great way to discourage friendly discussion...
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:12 PM
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Question: if we leave the A-10, do we forfeit the Money not yet paid from the Tournament runs?

To form a new conference, you would probably have to only have basketball schools. I do not believe that schools like UConn, UC, Houston, Memphis, and SMU would be attracted to a no-football conference.

Therefore you have Dayton, Loyola, Drake, St. Louis, Detroit and not much else. Maybe other A-10 schools like Duquense. Feels more like the MCC than the GMW.

I believe that the AAC would be the most high profile option. In talking to someone at UD, Dayton would consider the AAC if they were convinced that UConn was there to stay. UD is well aware that the A-10 is diluted as compared to when we joined. It is just hard to know which way to go. The BE is a no-brainer, but the BE has not asked. Things could get messy in the AAC with more conference reallignment. No great options...
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
Enzo - talk about a buzz-killer. Let's eliminate this term from the UD dictionary.

Great way to discourage friendly discussion...
2 things

There is endless conversation in the BE thread about our conference affiliation and where we should go.

I am all for friendly discussion, but this suggestion is pretty ridiculous, with all due respect.
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