GW playing for NIT Championship

[N2663R]

SORRY - I FAT FINGERED THE THREAD TITLE - MEANT SEMIFINAL NOT CHAMPIONSHIP

GW will be playing San Diego State in the NIT semi-finals. GW beat Florida and SDS beat Georgia Tech in what might be Brian Gregory's last game at GT. Good news and exposure for the A10.

NIT trivia:
UD has the second most NIT bids (24) in history, second only to St. John's (30).
UD has the second most NIT games played (63), second only to St. John's (72).
Zavier has 7 bids all time.

Question:
If GW wins the NIT, how do you compare the success of GW versus UD for the '15-'16 season?

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[maddog07]

Didn't we beat them? Didn't we go to the big dance? Didn't we get a share of the reg season championship? Do these questions answer yours???

[Medford]

I'll contend, UD's recent NIT title run was enjoyable, but not really because they won the NIT title, because they won @ UC, @ Illinois (avenging to some extend some ill will) and over UNC in the title game, which while it obviously wasn't a great UNC team, relatively speaking, it was still one of the true top end blue bloods of the sport. The first round home victory I can't remember, and the semi-final win over Ole Miss was only note worthy b/c it gave UD a shot at UNC (who beat another A10 team in the semi's if I recall, I think Richmond). On a personal level, the places they won and program they beat in the finals was great. However, from a program standpoint, a co-championship and NCAA bid are far, far better. How many people know GW is in the NIT semi-finals???? How many people picked either UD or Syracuse in round 1?

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[SC_Flyer]

Are you trying to tell me that your office doesn't do an NIT pool?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Medford The first round home victory I can't remember, and the semi-final win over Ole Miss was only note worthy b/c it gave UD a shot at UNC (who beat another A10 team in the semi's if I recall, I think Richmond).

UNC beat Rhody in the NIT semifinal...and a Rhody player was very clearly tripped by UNC, and the Rhody player fell to the floor losing control of the ball, in the final minute or final seconds, I think on a breakaway layup, off a steal or something, in a critical blown call that the officials clearly made a mistake on.

I believe that that blown call played a very big role in UNC's semifinal victory.

UNC beat Rhody 68-67 in OT in the semifinal.

UD beat Illinois State at UD in the first round.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[ud2]

The score was 68-67, UNC leading, with about 4 or 5 seconds left in the OT when the trip occurred.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...meId=300890227:

In the extra session, North Carolina had possession with about 5 seconds left and the shot clock about to expire when Larry Drew II forced up a shot. The rebound eventually wound up in the hands of Rhode Island's Lamonte Ulmer, who lost control of the ball as he rushed up court moments before the buzzer sounded, never coming close to getting off a shot.

Rhode Island coach Jim Baron thought he had been tripped and a foul should have been called, an opinion that North Carolina coach Roy Williams readily supported.

"We got the rebound and we were aiming to push it down the other end," Baron said. "I thought there was some contact and he tripped."



The tv announcers in the second video, Fran Fraschilla and Bill Raftery, also both thought that a foul should have been called on UNC for tripping.

If the foul is called, Rhody likely makes 1 or both free throws which possibly either sends the game to a second OT or wins the game for Rhody.

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[moville]

I was at the GW-Florida game last night. GW got easy bucket after easy bucket, and Florida had no answer for Cavanaugh. Game should have been at Florida, but their arena is being renovated. Almost a sell-out at the Smith Center. Sat with several Florida fans . . . good conversations . . . mentioned the name Anthony Grant and there was a lot of good comments about the man. During one of the official time-outs, trivia question . . . how many A-10 teams have won the NIT. We're one of five, I think that was the answer. Well good for GW . . . they've never been to any Final Four in hoops . . . Man, GW's roster is senior-heavy. They may be weak next year.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by moville Sat with several Florida fans . . . good conversations . . . mentioned the name Anthony Grant and there was a lot of good comments about the man.

Anthony Grant being rumored for SLU and Tulane jobs.

http://hoopdirt.com/25186-2/:

Speaking of St. Louis…former Alabama head coach and current Oklahoma City Thunder assistant Anthony Grant’s name has also come up here. BUT, his name has been even stronger at Tulane. In addition to his six seasons at Alabama (118-86), Grant spent three seasons as the head coach at VCU (76-25). It depends who you talk to, but is sounds like Tulane and their search firm Eastman and Beaudine, have a top 2 or 3, and Grant could be in that group.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[The Gem]

BG leads yet another team to NIT, imagine that.

[sheg]

Any NCAA appearance, even a 20-point first round loss, is superior to any non-NCAA finish.

That said, the recent NIT championship was a ton of fun to watch.

[CT Flyer]

I agree that any NCAA appearance, even first round losses, will always trump any NIT appearance, even long runs to the final four or further. With that being said NIT appearances can be valuable to a team especially a team that is young and will return the bulk of their team the following year.

[San Diego Flyer]

NIT in the modern era (post-obrien) has afforded us a shot at teams that normally are reluctant to schedule us. Penn State, tOSU, UC, Illinois, Ole Miss, UNC, Iowa were teams we got a shot at over the last couple decades that were not likely to show up on our schedule.
Ole Miss thanks to their coach a few times lately. That makes it worth while.

When we lose to Detroit, Tennessee Tech, College of Charleston, we probably wish we had passed on the opportunity.

I agree with the notion that a young team can gain additional experience and prolong their season. If you play in the NIT 2 or 3 years in a row, you are kidding yourself. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[udfanatic]

The NIT championship run is much better than a 1st round NCAA blowout from a fan's perspective. Brian Gregory deserves credit for leading the team on the impressive and unexpected NIT run. His difficult offense finally was figured out by the players that year.

The NCAA brings us more $ and publicity but a championship run provides more satisfaction.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[The Fly]

No, it isn't. Period. Though you are entitled to your opinion, which places you in the smallest of minorities.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by udfanatic The NIT championship run is much better than a 1st round NCAA blowout from a fan's perspective.

No it isn't!!!!!!!

[Phi Psi Flyer '09]

GW vs Dayton is the perfect example of why the NIT is completely irrelevant & in fact not fun/satisfying at all. You have 2 teams: 1 team beat the other team straight up. That same team won the conference regular season title. That same team made the NCAA tournament. How you can even think about comparing these teams is insane. If GW went on to win the next 15 NITs Dayton's current season would still be superior.
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[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Phi Psi Flyer '09 GW vs Dayton is the perfect example of why the NIT is completely irrelevant & in fact not fun/satisfying at all. You have 2 teams: 1 team beat the other team straight up. That same team won the conference regular season title. That same team made the NCAA tournament. How you can even think about comparing these teams is insane. If GW went on to win the next 15 NITs Dayton's current season would still be superior. Posted via Mobile Device

The way this Dayton team finished - from a fans perspective- was very poor. I'd take an NIT championship over a first round blowout loss in the NCAA- unless I that blowout loss was to a far superior team (in this case not). No way am I saying i prefer an NIT abid over an NCAA bid nor am I saying I preferred BG's 2010 NIT run because that was just a disappointment of a season.
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[FrankStreetFlyer]

The 2 main goals each season should be 1) Get in the NCAA tournament 2) Win it. If we fail #1, the NIT may have some value to the team for next year but it has no value for the current year. Anyone upset that we lost in the first game needs to remember that before tip-off we had a chance to be National Champions. No NIT team does.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by ud2 UNC beat Rhody in the NIT semifinal...and a Rhody player was very clearly tripped by UNC, and the Rhody player fell to the floor losing control of the ball, in the final minute or final seconds, I think on a breakaway layup, off a steal or something, in a critical blown call that the officials clearly made a mistake on. I believe that that blown call played a very big role in UNC's semifinal victory. UNC beat Rhody 68-67 in OT in the semifinal. UD beat Illinois State at UD in the first round.

Tripping, huh? Must be an ACC thing (which Grayson Allen of Duke has now taken to higher levels).
Posted via Mobile Device

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by sheg Any NCAA appearance, even a 20-point first round loss, is superior to any non-NCAA finish. That said, the recent NIT championship was a ton of fun to watch.

I got the feeling any team would've beaten the Tarheels that year. I have put a mental asterisk next to that game. That UNC team would've lost to any other UNC team I ever saw. What a paper tiger.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 The way this Dayton team finished - from a fans perspective- was very poor. I'd take an NIT championship over a first round blowout loss in the NCAA- unless I that blowout loss was to a far superior team (in this case not). No way am I saying i prefer an NIT abid over an NCAA bid nor am I saying I preferred BG's 2010 NIT run because that was just a disappointment of a season. Posted via Mobile Device

No, no, no, no. We just played in our 3rd straight NCAA tournament. We were a mid seed. The team over a 3 year period has reached a much higher stature and relevance. This year attached to the 2 previous seasons keeps UD in the minds of NCAA committees so that there's a lot less chance that we will be treated like St. Bonaventure or Monmouth in upcoming years.

One NIT championship every half of a century is good enough as far as I'm concerned. Anymore than that is failure.

Seriously, it boggles my mind how in today's world of college basketball, where the NCAA includes 68 teams, how anyone could want an NIT championship over even a brief appearance on the big dance floor. To me it's like saying "I'll take a horse winning 10 straight cheap claiming races over a last place finish in the Kentucky Derby or Breeder's Cup Classic".

[rollo]

I'd rather shoot a 78 at NCR South than a 68 at Community.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by rollo I'd rather shoot a 78 at NCR South than a 68 at Community.

Me too. We are talking 9 holes right?

[C-time]

Originally Posted by rollo I'd rather shoot a 78 at NCR South than a 68 at Community.

I get a feeling some people would go to the bar and brag about shooting a 59 at Rollandia.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by C-time I get a feeling some people would go to the bar and brag about shooting a 59 at Rollandia.

I would absolutely love to shoot a 59 at Rolland. I am a very bad golfer.

[UDEE79]

season that leads to NCAA bid is much more fun than a season that leads to an NIT bid.

Marching through the NIT, beating several big-5 teams on the road and a all-time top 5 program for the championship is much more fun than losing by 20 to a team that should have been in the NIT.

I believe I just stated two indisputable facts.

I do not think fact #2 outweighs fact #1.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Me too. We are talking 9 holes right?

Originally Posted by C-time I get a feeling some people would go to the bar and brag about shooting a 59 at Rollandia.

Originally Posted by UDEE79 I would absolutely love to shoot a 59 at Rolland. I am a very bad golfer.

Stay.
On.
TOPIC!!!!

[cj]

Rollo, don't forget your meds.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by cj Rollo, don't forget your meds.

It's a 'supplement'.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 season that leads to NCAA bid is much more fun than a season that leads to an NIT bid. Marching through the NIT, beating several big-5 teams on the road and a all-time top 5 program for the championship is much more fun than losing by 20 to a team that should have been in the NIT. I believe I just stated two indisputable facts. I do not think fact #2 outweighs fact #1.

This NIT talk got me thinking. Since the NIT is sort of a tournament where the winner is 69th, why doesn't someone start a tournament for 17th? It would start during the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament and have all teams that lost in the round of 32. I sure think those would be better games and have at least a little more prestige than any other tournament outside the NCAA. It would add up to 6 games played by the champion and runnerup (2 in NCAA 4 in new tournament) and I certainly would be prouder to win that than an NIT. It also would be a nice consolation for the 8/9 seeders who got stuck playing a #1 in the 2nd round. And also would periodically have #1 seeds in it.

I'm sure the NCAA probably has a rule now that a team can only play in one post season tournament, but if they didn't, the above would be the only other tournament that might grab my attention.

[pkd149]

There are too many tournaments already. Even one with the NCAA's losers would be no fun to watch.

I actually kind of like the idea of the Vegas 16 (8) in that it doesn't force teams to host and in that it is played over the course of a few days. I think it should be played midweek after the first weekend of NCAAs. Some of the teams playing have now had a full three weeks off if their conference tournament was the week before Selection Sunday.

[IAFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I'd rather shoot a 98 at NCR South than a 88 at Community.

Fixed it for you...

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by rollo I'd rather shoot a 78 at NCR South than a 68 at Community.

Played them both forever. You'll make more money off the guys at community with a 68. Depends on what floats your boat that day/week.

[Gilchrist's Autograph 2]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 I got the feeling any team would've beaten the Tarheels that year. I have put a mental asterisk next to that game. That UNC team would've lost to any other UNC team I ever saw. What a paper tiger.

They beat 4 good teams to get to that game
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[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 season that leads to NCAA bid is much more fun than a season that leads to an NIT bid. Marching through the NIT, beating several big-5 teams on the road and a all-time top 5 program for the championship is much more fun than losing by 20 to a team that should have been in the NIT. I believe I just stated two indisputable facts. I do not think fact #2 outweighs fact #1.

Well said, UDEE79. And to your final point, in my mind, Fact #1 outweighs Fact #2 because Fact #1 represents 3 months of top-notch basketball, whereas Fact #2 represents only 3 weeks of top-notch basketball. Months > Weeks.

[Widget]

I have heard in the past that winning the NIT is like kissing your sister. I would say it's more like a slump buster. Not always something to brag about, but a necessary evil. Take it and move on. I'd rather take the prom queen on a date and come up short.

The NIT is like riding a moped. It can be fun, but I wouldn't want my buddies to see me ride it
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[C-time]

Originally Posted by Widget I have heard in the past that winning the NIT is like kissing your sister. I would say it's more like a slump buster. Not always something to brag about, but a necessary evil. Take it and move on. I'd rather take the prom queen on a date and come up short. The NIT is like riding a moped. It can be fun, but I wouldn't want my buddies to see me ride it Posted via Mobile Device

This is one of the best NCAA vs NIT analogies I have ever read, but Dayton doesn't need or want a slumpbuster. Archie only takes out the prom queen and doesn't come up short in real life and in basketball.

[NJFlyr71]

NCAA is the best situation for the post season, (even one and done).
Of course the second place option is the NIT but who here wants that as our voluntary first option?

As I perused the sports channels on TV, radio and read the sports columns on a number of hard copy papers, coupled with the sports columns on the world wide web the coverage and discussion about all things NCAA is overwhelming.

The NIT is almost treated as an " OH! Yea, over here we got some NIT games. "

The period between the Selection Show and the start of games, each team has the potential and realization to be a topic of discussion when you have been selected to attend the NCAA. Sports Fanatics turn in, read up and all around taken in the who what where and whens of the NCAA.

Yes you take the NIT if that is all you will be given ... I understand that but the NCAA well that is a privilege to be a part of!

I look at the NIT as a fan base touranment since about the only folks interested are those fans directly linked to each team. You can tell this by the level of (and what kind of) coverage the NIT gets. Lower tier TV cable, smaller columns on hard copy print media, etc.

From a pure PR level (i.e. noise) the NCAA is where it is at ... each team gets a piece of 'ONE SHINING MOMENT' even the one and dones ... which unfortunately like UD was what we received this year.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2 They beat 4 good teams to get to that game Posted via Mobile Device

That's a cookie-cutter comparison. Middle-Tennessee St beat MSU this year. All tournament teams are good. I was just checking the zeal level, which often gets to a giddy level when referring to that championship. That UNC team would've finished near or at the bottom of the ACC this year.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 season that leads to NCAA bid is much more fun than a season that leads to an NIT bid. Marching through the NIT, beating several big-5 teams on the road and a all-time top 5 program for the championship is much more fun than losing by 20 to a team that should have been in the NIT. I believe I just stated two indisputable facts. I do not think fact #2 outweighs fact #1.

I would suggest fact #3: multiple consecutive NCAA appearances, regardless of result, leads to higher prestige, scheduling flexibility, and future street cred with the committee than having an NIT bid mixed in there.

Compare:

"UCLA fans are hearing rumors of a home / home with Dayton, who had a good year where they made the NCAA tournament in 2013, followed by a down year where they made (and ultimately won) the NIT in 2014, followed by another NCAA appearance in 2015."

"UCLA fans are hearing rumors of a home / home with Dayton who has built a consistent winning program where, after 3 consecutive NCAA appearances, they expect to extend that streak to 4 in 2016."

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 season that leads to NCAA bid is much more fun than a season that leads to an NIT bid. Marching through the NIT, beating several big-5 teams on the road and a all-time top 5 program for the championship is much more fun than losing by 20 to a team that should have been in the NIT. I believe I just stated two indisputable facts. I do not think fact #2 outweighs fact #1.

So marching through big-5 teams that didn't make the NCAA tournament outweighs 3 straight NCAA Tournaments and probably 4 straight NCAA tournaments. I'd much rather be known for the latter. Also, looking at the Big-5 schools in the NIT this year, not one would have been considered an upset or moved the needle.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This NIT talk got me thinking. Since the NIT is sort of a tournament where the winner is 69th, why doesn't someone start a tournament for 17th? It would start during the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament and have all teams that lost in the round of 32. I sure think those would be better games and have at least a little more prestige than any other tournament outside the NCAA. It would add up to 6 games played by the champion and runnerup (2 in NCAA 4 in new tournament) and I certainly would be prouder to win that than an NIT. It also would be a nice consolation for the 8/9 seeders who got stuck playing a #1 in the 2nd round. And also would periodically have #1 seeds in it. I'm sure the NCAA probably has a rule now that a team can only play in one post season tournament, but if they didn't, the above would be the only other tournament that might grab my attention.

Or, what if the 48-50 NCAA teams that didn't make the Sweet Sixteen joined the 16 teams that won their opening NIT game and we had a field of 64 teams??

You could even start out with more than 32, and play it down to 16 and have those 16 join the other 48.

I think the NIT does give us some pretty good match ups. I actually really like the CIT as well because it is targeted almost exclusively at the one bid leagues. If you can make these tournaments better and make it so more teams would want to play in them, then why not do it??

[DGO67]

Add a week to tournament play and have the top 350 participate.
Based on computer ratings, the only team with a gripe this year would have been Florida A&M. Better yet, there could be a two team play-in at a neutral site!

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 So marching through big-5 teams that didn't make the NCAA tournament outweighs 3 straight NCAA Tournaments and probably 4 straight NCAA tournaments. I'd much rather be known for the ladder. Also, looking at the Big-5 schools in the NIT this year, not one would have been considered an upset or moved the needle.

I'd rather be known for NCAA tournaments than tools used for climbing things.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by DGO67 Add a week to tournament play and have the top 350 participate. Based on computer ratings, the only team with a gripe this year would have been Florida A&M. Better yet, there could be a two team play-in at a neutral site!

If they wanted to open the NIT up to everyone who didn't make the NCAAs I'd actually be fine with that.

[DGO67]

Originally Posted by xubrew If they wanted to open the NIT up to everyone who didn't make the NCAAs I'd actually be fine with that.

Keep a two game play-in?

[xubrew]

Sure, why not. Or, however they decide to do it. Just say it's for whoever wants to play that didn't make the NCAA Tournament. The top 32 that make it now could be the "seeded teams" and they could host the games against regional opponents until it's down to 32 teams in the first week. Go from 32 to 4 in the second week. Send the top 4 to MSG during the third week.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 So marching through big-5 teams that didn't make the NCAA tournament outweighs 3 straight NCAA Tournaments and probably 4 straight NCAA tournaments. I'd much rather be known for the latter. Also, looking at the Big-5 schools in the NIT this year, not one would have been considered an upset or moved the needle.

I didn't say that is this what you think?
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