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11-23-2016, 08:25 AM
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Colonel
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The Dunk Shot!!!
The Flyers are moving on.
AM will adjust
We will win our share, BUT....
Why did JC have to attempt that slam dunk?
We were ahead..... :04 on the clock
Eat the ball!
I have never been a big fan of the dunk.
Years ago when watching hoops with my son
he would come off the couch when one was made on TV!
I'd say, "Two points, right?"
On many occasions the player dunking has to over extend
his body in order to complete the move.
How many times have you seen near miss injuries because of a dunk shot.
Every time Schoochie steals the ball and heads down court I mutter....
"Just lay it in Schooch". Most of the time he does but now and then he dunks.
I'd give up seeing another dunk by a Flyer forever if JC was playing this
weekend in LA.
Go Flyers!!
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11-23-2016, 08:36 AM
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General
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Piqua Flyer: I think you have to understand the psyche of these athletes. They are driven by competition and instinct...they are warriors and they want to win and their will to win far outweighs their concern for injuries. We will see thousands of dunk plays across college basketball this year and only a very small portion will result in injury. Injuries can happen at any time in a game and to try to play to avoid them would only drag these competitive warriors down.
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11-23-2016, 08:37 AM
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Captain
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I think they need to remove the hanging on the rim Technical. That would help a lot of the scary falls. It's 2016, let them hang on it, only hurts them on defense when they don't get back.
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11-23-2016, 08:45 AM
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General of the Air Force
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JC had a wide open lane to the basket, good move to score and make it a two possession game, and at least he took the highest percentage shot as only 4 seconds left. If JC does not score, Alabama fouls him as I doubt he could have ran out the final 4 seconds.
If he does not take the easy shot, and Bama fouls him, the following happens-
JC misses both the foul shots.
Alabama inbounds the ball with 1.9 seconds left on the clock, one dribble to just past half court, 3 point shot nothing but net.
Final score Alabama 75, Flyers 74
Good decision by JC, crappy outcome. Speedy and full recovery please. Go Flyers
Last edited by ClaytonFlyerFan; 11-23-2016 at 08:48 AM..
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11-23-2016, 08:56 AM
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Colonel
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Why climb Mt. Everest? --> Because it's there.
Why dunk? --> Because one can.
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11-23-2016, 08:58 AM
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Colonel
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Tom Gola -
I appreciate the warrior in all athletes.
I also appreciate floor sense......and knowing the situation.
Lots of times to dunk in a season.....that time vs. Bama was not IMHO
Floor sense? What XW did not have when he had the ball in his hands
with :15 to play vs. St Marys
Go Flyers!!
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11-23-2016, 09:18 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66
The Flyers are moving on.
AM will adjust
We will win our share, BUT....
Why did JC have to attempt that slam dunk?
We were ahead..... :04 on the clock
Eat the ball!
I have never been a big fan of the dunk.
Years ago when watching hoops with my son
he would come off the couch when one was made on TV!
I'd say, "Two points, right?"
On many occasions the player dunking has to over extend
his body in order to complete the move.
How many times have you seen near miss injuries because of a dunk shot.
Every time Schoochie steals the ball and heads down court I mutter....
"Just lay it in Schooch". Most of the time he does but now and then he dunks.
I'd give up seeing another dunk by a Flyer forever if JC was playing this
weekend in LA.
Go Flyers!!
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What does it matter if a player goes for a dunk or lay-up? In JC's case he was still going to be hit by the opposing player, still a chance he comes down awkward or have another injury. Remember when we played Butler in the arena, their player went up for a lay-up and was carted off the floor after being hit by Derenbecker. The game was still within reach. 2 possession lead pull the ball out, 1 possession you need to try and ice it.
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11-23-2016, 09:20 AM
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Colonel
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Watching Charles Little, Chris Wright, and Marcus Johnson dunk on their opponents was some of my favorite Flyrer memories... and at times would totally destroy the will of the enemy!
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11-23-2016, 09:21 AM
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General of the Air Force
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I remember a celtics plsyer allen who had a dunk late in the game and I think they were well ahead. One of the players said to himself "dont do it" snd allen wrecked his knee
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11-23-2016, 09:55 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer
Why climb Mt. Everest? --> Because it's there.
Why dunk? --> Because one can.
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Why are we here?
Because we're here!
Roll the Bones....
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11-23-2016, 09:58 AM
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Major General
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If you are being chased from behind, the game-sealing layup can be blocked. If the ball doesn't leave your hand and gets thrown with force through the hoop on a dunk, it is nearly impossible to block cleanly. There are plenty of what-ifs you can go through - what if Scooch didn't throw the pass, what if the Alabama player let it go, etc. But really everyone followed their instincts and made perfectly reasonable decisions and it was just a freak occurrence.
The dunk shot is not going away... I suppose one day they could try to completely legislate out fouling a guy in the air under the rim - using that protected area under the basket with automatic ejections for violations. Would be akin to some of the NFL's recent player safety rule changes. I think that would take a lot away from the from the game however and don't see the pressure that forced the NFL into such rule changes being in play so don't see it happening any time soon, but it wouldn't shock me to see it happen one day many years from now either.
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11-23-2016, 09:58 AM
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Captain
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I was able to dunk pretty easily from early high school through the mid 2000s. I was pretty obsessed with it actually. I wasn't a big in game dunker, but in practice and playing around with my friends and teammates its like all I thought about. But my high school coach hated it. He was one of the "It's only 2 points" coaches.
I hate what happened to JC, but I do agree that a dunk sure can change the momentum of the game. In many, many instances that I can think of.
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11-23-2016, 10:08 AM
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General
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Why on a fast break go in for the layup and allow someone to maybe catch up to you instead of a pull up jumper? Because the closer the ball is to the hole in the rim when you let it go, the higher percentage the shot.
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11-23-2016, 10:11 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
If you are being chased from behind, the game-sealing layup can be blocked. If the ball doesn't leave your hand and gets thrown with force through the hoop on a dunk, it is nearly impossible to block cleanly. There are plenty of what-ifs you can go through - what if Scooch didn't throw the pass, what if the Alabama player let it go, etc. But really everyone followed their instincts and made perfectly reasonable decisions and it was just a freak occurrence.
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Don't forget: What if that awful bankshot on the 3 by Alabama doesn't go in? Then I believe Flyers already have 2 possession lead and Scooch holds ball and waits for foul.
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11-23-2016, 10:17 AM
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Captain
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I am a dunk versus lay-up advocate. I used to scream at the TV when Kurt Huelsman missed a bunny shot.
Another thought for people that like morale/momentum/crowd participation: A lay up just doesn't get the crowd juiced up like a dunk does.
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11-23-2016, 10:24 AM
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Risk/reward when dunking
Dunking is an everlasting part of the game. That said, we have seen Kendall throw himself around the lane in unmitigated fury. Did that exuberance lead to his current injury? Maybe. But as a coach you can't mess with the DNA of a great athlete expressing himself. In this situation Josh wanted to punctuate a tough physical win. Was not looking to be undercut. Let's face it, the game was over and both players acted instinctively.
The problem is when a dunk on the opponent's court is in front of their fans, there is a measure of in-your-face, in-your-house. I have seen guys who tried that in AAU and they ended up in the cheap seats before they landed. There is risk. And I never read about any apology from the kid that fouled Josh, nor Avery Johnson. And none was sought.
What if? What if Chris Wright flying over that Marquette player in Chicago miscalculates his leap and hits the guy in the head with his junk and lands full force on the floor and is paralyzed? That may be the most memorable dunk ever, but he was a split second from disaster. We no longer think of the downside, but rather the spontaneous effect it had on an entire arena, viewing tv audience, and fan base.
Risk/reward.
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11-23-2016, 10:27 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by Widget
I am a dunk versus lay-up advocate. I used to scream at the TV when Kurt Huelsman missed a bunny shot.
Another thought for people that like morale/momentum/crowd participation: A lay up just doesn't get the crowd juiced up like a dunk does.
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KH is the first person that comes to mind in this argument. I would say Brian Gregory might have had a few more wins and maybe another NCAA appearance or two if Huelsman would have dunked the ball when he had the opportunities.
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11-23-2016, 10:33 AM
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Major
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Sadly...the rewind button doesn't work in life.
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11-23-2016, 10:34 AM
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If Josh was not hurt on the play, this thread and lots of UD angst would not exist.
How often do you see a player hurt on a dunk? The odds of injury are probably not far from other types of basketball plays. Just an unfortunate injury in which two players got tangled. It also stood out because of the time left in the game. If it happened at the 10 minute mark, no one would say skip the dunk.
For a player with the size of Josh, a routine dunk is the safest way to score and ice the game. (I'm talking percentage of making vs missing and not talking the showboat windmill NBA dunking contest dunk). It is a high percentage shot. Take the highest percentage shot you have.
If asked to do it again in the future, I am certain Josh will dunk.
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11-23-2016, 10:41 AM
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I felt like the only thing JC should have done differently is to go in for a solid and under control two-handed dunk where he could use the rim to control his fall after contact, rather than the big one-handed dunk. Hindsight is 20-20. As a senior, he may have approached differently, but emotions rule in those situations as a young player.
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11-23-2016, 10:43 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Its not like dunking is a hard thing for an athlete like Josh to do
Now give him 25 years and a big old beer belly, and yea, dunking on an 8' rim becomes a challenge.
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11-23-2016, 11:01 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
For a player with the size of Josh, a routine dunk is the safest way to score and ice the game. (I'm talking percentage of making vs missing and not talking the showboat windmill NBA dunking contest dunk). It is a high percentage shot. Take the highest percentage shot you have.
If asked to do it again in the future, I am certain Josh will dunk.
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Right. I guess the question is how we are defining safe. Do we mean safe in terms of making the basket (dunk is clearly less likely to be blocked) or do we mean safe in terms of less injury risk.
But I think the initial premise of this thread is actually that a layup would have offered lesser injury risk than a dunk. I don't agree with that. Because an athlete of Josh's caliber will jump just as high on a layup as he will a dunk, and still can be undercut.
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11-23-2016, 11:04 AM
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The dunk didn't cause the injury, the landing did. Layup or dunk, there was going to be contact.
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I shaved my balls for this?
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11-23-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by UD93 Steve
I felt like the only thing JC should have done differently is to go in for a solid and under control two-handed dunk where he could use the rim to control his fall after contact, rather than the big one-handed dunk. Hindsight is 20-20. As a senior, he may have approached differently, but emotions rule in those situations as a young player.
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Theoretically, yes. Or he could have jump stopped, pump-faked and gotten fouled without going up at all. Or he could have tried to dribble to the corner and just run out the clock I suppose. But again, chances of making the dunk to ice the game were definitely better than him hitting two free throws. If he tries to dribble to the corner, he could step on the end line, dribble off his foot, or get caught and fouled. So even there, taking the dunk is probably "safer."
But all this what-if suggests that Josh Cunningham would actually factor in injury-risk when making a split-second decision. Athletes don't do that. If you're out there just trying to not get hurt, you might as well not be out there.
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11-23-2016, 11:17 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by UDTradition
Sadly...the rewind button doesn't work in life.
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Where's the "undo" button? Ctrl+z?
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
Its not like dunking is a hard thing for an athlete like Josh to do
Now give him 25 years and a big old beer belly, and yea, dunking on an 8' rim becomes a challenge.
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At 6'8" that means his feet need to get about 10" off the ground to reach the rim. Maybe 25" to dunk. The difference between the height reached on a layup vs. dunk is trivial to an athlete. Most of us need to jump off a chair, and it feels dangerous all the way up there.
Coaches who say "it's only 2 points" are talking to suburban kids who have to give everything they've got to dunk. When it's basically the same effort to dunk vs. the effort to lay it in, then by all means dunk the d**n ball and reduce the risk of the missed shot.
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11-23-2016, 12:15 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by rollo
The dunk didn't cause the injury, the landing did. Layup or dunk, there was going to be contact.
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I'm learning to fly but, I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
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11-24-2016, 03:20 PM
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Colonel
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The dunk can be worth more than 2 points, it can be a momentum changer.
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11-24-2016, 06:32 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by Jeff
Why are we here?
Because we're here!
Roll the Bones....
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Why does it happen?
;-)
Because it happens
Roll the bones
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